: I think TSM has well over 60% of the fanbase easily, maybe not now with how TSM failed yet again at Worlds, but just look at previous games where it's " Who do you think will win polls" and TSM are always above 60%. Heck, I remember TSM lost to RNG to go 0-1 in groups last year, faced SSG and the same poll came up and TSM were much, much higher than SSG. People are just tired of TSM doing so well within their own region, that they want them to win at an International level. It's like they're the LA Dodgers(pre 2017), Nationals, Clippers(W/Chris Paul), Washington Capitals etc. TSM also has one of the best fanbase, players, $, resources, revenue etc etc. That's why the pressure on TSM is so high, everything positive is in their corner.
Everything positive except their mentalities,I think NA biggest curse is their mentality and attitude to adapt different strategies,C9 did manage to break the mould but again they lost steam at the final game.The reasons Koreans are so good is they will adapt to different strategies for example (SKT taking leona fervor ,a tribute to MSF and winning cleanly ) and keep going even if they are ahead in the series or especially when behind they are lethal tbh one wrong mistake and u can kiss ur chances goodbye.
: Things I get annoyed about from TSM 1. Bjergsen plays too damn passive/even. If you're a top tier Korean team facing TSM and their best player just goes even and plays passive to the point of starving themselves, wouldn't you just play passive and even too, when you know your team will win anyways? You can see it in pro play and you can even see it in solo Q, especially with pings with Bjergsen who pings like 100 times for help in a 1v1 every game. Ever since 2014 Spring, Bjergsen has also been consistent but his true carry power has gotten worse and worse over the years. Instead he picks these support like mid champions. One can argue the best player needs to work around the team or the team works around the best player and TSM does both but around the wrong players. ( Support style Bjergsen) - (Carry D-Lift) has been the style since D-Lift joined TSM WHY ? D-Lift has no choice but to pick carry champions(ADC?) but that doesn't mean he's the carry on the team, have the team built around Bjergsen so he can actually do something and...........blamed. 2. Blame It seems Bjergsen never gets any sort of blame, why because he's too well known at this point, he also doesn't take chances and so, he doesn't die(KDA) to be able to get the blame. Do you recall LAL vs PHX back in 04-06 somewhere during that timeline in the playoffs? Remember, when Kobe shot like 30 times and got blamed for losing 3 games because how much he shot, so, he shot only like 5 times in game 7 so he wouldn't be blamed for what he was already being blamed for. Hell, he even deleted a post saying something like (" How could I be blamed for losing") like it was someone else's fault. The best players get the blame, not the worse ones ! Just other things like X Why is TSM following the meta for 11 months only to give Hauntzer a carry champion in every deciding game in tournaments ? You know it's a tank top for the most part and yet, they keep giving him these Jayce picks thinking he can carry, he can't. X Why are top lanes within the Western scene not understand don't push or overextend, when top is 90% of the time the first gank in games. They push, overextend, get ganked, flash die. We've seen this from Hauntzer, Impact, Flame like 20+ times and their not learning from it. X WTH happened to D-Lift's lane phase? It's like D-Lift and Sneaky switched or something, D-Lift couldn't do shit in lane, while Sneaky was like a god in lane, and it's not like it only started during Worlds. For a better part of 2017 Summer split was the same for both D-Lift and Sneaky. Long enough post so, I'll stop here: Overall all, great effort from NA/EU, 3 extra games, tie-breakers, coming back from 0-3/0-4 holes from FNC and EDG 3-2 from MFS and C9 etc etc. As well as my apology
And Koreans keep winning just because honestly all other teams lose steam at game 5 not the korean ones,they aren't out till they are out with the final time nexus falling,western teams are getting there but still not enough even Chinese teams lose steam lol man SKT at worlds are like Messi for Barca,its like they can play worlds over and over again without a sweat I mean they don't even perform that great at their own region lol xD
: ". This series showed the world that you don’t have to follow the meta to find success". If only NA, mainly TSM can actually learn to do that instead of the same ol' copy paste what Korea does, only to get pwnd by the same logic. Cliff notes if you will doesn't beat the book itself or knowledge that comes with it. Funny how players don't even smile when they win or accomplish anything in this game, but they tend to smile in the hype videos. Sneaky talking about teams reversing sweep out of groups(Fnatic) followed by Rekkles smiling. Misfits and the SKT hype video, with POE smiling while talking about trying to take down the 3x World Champions SKT, only to lose in a tip of the hat salute 3-2(interesting). One could say it's ri............ Uzi or maybe Mata as the second greatest league player " I hope teams will take what MSF and C9 showed in the Quarterfinals to heart and develop their own play styles this year". -Doubtful, what will 2018 be 8 years and NA cant do anything but "copy paste" Korea for the most part, but yes, 2018 will change all that lol. I know for a fact TSM won't that's for sure, if there's fanboy team of SKT/Korea it's TSM and if there's a team to cliff note, only to fail like baboons it's TSM, we've seen it countless times now, what makes 2018 for TSM or NA any different
I think they need diversity and multiple drafts to execute on.Being a meta slave is fine but when a team who is playing that style over and over,it shows they clearly are better that style(The Koreans and Chinese).How to counter that is to either play better than them at that style or just pick another style which is equally effective which MSF and C9 did especially bringing out pocket picks like singed and leona are just what you want to topple the Asians.Last year Rox did with MF support so it is proven.Thus every game you should bring a new style and execute properly to counter the Koreans that's why I thought GAM can make it far if they got out of groups, the way they pushed LZ to the limit was amazing, but their late game execution wasn't great so they toppled after a brilliant start.Even MSF and C9 almost did it , its just that winning 3 games against the Asians is too tough because they can adapt to any play-style within that series.So you have to knock them out with different drafts for 3 times without missing a beat or even having slightly a doubt of losing the whole series.
: I can get behind that reasoning, even if I don't quite agree myself. My only issue is that people are saying C9 was saved as if it was absolute that they would have lost. But even your reasoning gave them 25% chance. Sure, that is still in EDG's favor, but that is not 0% :D As for TSM... yeah, I kinda noticed they do that. I'm not a fan of them personally, so I didn't watch all their games, but I did catch the final Flash Wolves game against TSM, just because. Flash Wolves had nothing to gain or lose no matter how that game went, so it sort of speaks poorly of a team that has some 'top tier' players to lose when they had a lot riding on it. You could say it is pressure though, for the exact same reasons I mentioned. Flash Wolves had no pressure, TSM had a lot. Had they won, they would have at least had a tiebreaker round with Misfits right after they got beat by them. What makes the loss against Flash Wolves more disruptive for them was HOW they lost. It wasn't a come-from behind victory. Misfits was ahead for all but maybe 2 minutes of that game, TSM got no towers, and lost with a 15K gold deficit at the end - which was less than 25 minutes into the game. I'm sorry if I seem to critical, but again... Flash Wolves had NOTHING riding on that game. Maybe a bit of pride, but they were already out. I really don't mean to be over-critical with this, it just baffles me. If they are the 'best team in NA,' why did they seemingly cave under the pressure so easily? ... anyway, I'll stop with my rant on TSM. EDG... yeah, they had a lot of potential, but, even though I don't personally know their history with best of 5 games, the did seem in general to need a little more improvement. They have a great foundation, great players, and they work together pretty smoothly. They just weren't quite there this year. I don't know about their past performances, since I only started to watch competitive this year, but this Group Stage has me really thinking they could make it further next year if they practice at overcoming their weaknesses. I like them : D GAM was fun to watch too, but I don't quite think they were ready to make it that far. They were praised by the analysts and casters for their odd strategies, but after the performance against immortals... they started to play very normally. That was not their strong point, and I think it worked against them a bit. That's just my opinion though.
Well EDG kinda also don't deliver when it comes to expectations just like TSM. GAM also lost it after that LZ loss I mean when you almost had a game won against the No 1 Korean Seed then lose it like in the way they did it made a mark obviously in their mind that's why they crumbled after that game.I think I've understood what is happening in LCS stage.Skill wise I think most regions are pretty equal (Barring Koreans for sure and China maybe).The reason Koreans are always on top is they can find ways to win from any situation even when set back or have a big lead plus their macro is mostly perfect.Western teams kinda crumble under pressure and even if they have a big lead on Asian teams mainly Koreans they don't finish it cleanly.I think MSF almost broke that code but again if u see in 4th game they were so eager to win to get it over with,they grouped up just slightly that SKT were ready to exploit that and thus the comeback happened then the reverse sweep.I think it might be KR vs CN in semifinals and whoever have the better macro will win. RNG might take down SKT considering their form but then again u don't generally bet against SKT,so it will be pretty interesting.If C9 makes it tto semifinals that will be pretty awesome too.We will see :)
: People keep saying C9 was 'saved' but that is hardly the case. They would have still been in the running for second seed either way, they would have just needed to beat EDG in the tiebreaker. And they had both beaten the other once before that in group stage. So... there was no guarantee that either would win over the other. So... no, they weren't saved. They just didn't have to worry about doing another round and potentially losing. That said, I do agree that EDG did really well. I would not say they 'deserved' a spot in the quarter finals, but in my opinion no team 'deserves' anything - no matter who they are, what they have done, or what history they have. They earn it. And sometimes the challenges they have to overcome are very difficult. EDG had 2 big challenges that made their loss concrete. Their 0-3 in week 1, and facing SKT. They did EXTREMELY well, but they did not overcome those challenges in the end. C9 had less challenges, but still had to work for their spot all the same. SKT had far less difficult challenges throughout, and they overcame them - though their loss against AHQ had potential to even put their advancement in question. (Edit: I'd like to clarify on that last point, as I am not saying 'SKT should have lost' or anything crazy like that. I have nothing against them. I'm saying that that one loss put them in a position where - if the worst happened - even they, with their 3-0 showing the first week, could have been booted. AHQ was the only team they had to beat to prevent even doubt of this from forming... and they lost, putting AHQ at 2-2 with 2 games left, and them at 3-1. If SKT lost all their games - which I'd say was possible if they didn't keep their heads together so well after such a shocking defeat - then C9 would have only needed to beat EDG, and AHQ needed to sweep that week. With that, AHQ and C9 would tie for first seed with 4-2. This all sounds stupid, but it is all hypothetical, and just sort of a show of what the worst case for SKT could have been if all the cards played out against them. ... they didn't though, so all of this is simply idle talk.) I'm going to be a fan of EDG from this point on though, cause I really like how they played, and how well they worked together - especially when you consider iBoy is new to the scene, and the youngest player that made it to group stage, since he was literally just old enough to come into the competitive scene, if what the analysts said is true. That speaks really well of them. And I think next year, with practice to help correct their weaknesses, they could do much better. This second week in groups showed that. So, I'll be cheering for them to make it into Worlds again, and to push further.
Well its just that mentality man I am sure C9 would have lost the tiebreaker 75% just because the fears of NA week 2 will be hanging in back of their minds that,said yes I think C9 deserves the spot just like FNC even tho EDG and GAM almost made it.I kinda love C9 just because they do have a world class top and mid,other roles are debatable but they did look the best from all NA teams so if they beat WE that itself would be a little redemption for NA which hopefully they will at least try. EDG always are potential contenders but just like TSM they under perform especially in the clutch bo5 series and kinda choke.(note:I said like TSM just because they both are super dominant in their own regions yet under perform when it comes to international events even tho TSM mostly don't get out of groups itself LuL)
: I think props especially has to go to Fnatic here. 0-3 in week 1, and they still made it out of group stage. I'm an NA player, so admittedly I do want C9 to at least make it in so my own region can be represented, but I feel like I'm going to be backing Fnatic in the upcoming weeks. TSM... yeah, I'm gonna be blunt, I don't like TSM. They play very stiffly, and they have always seemed more... cocky to me. And that first point was proven with their losses last night, where their inability to properly adapt to their opponents made them lose game after game. They won against Misfits once, only to lose to them in the tiebreaker because they couldn't adapt, and Misfits knew what was coming. They lost against Flash Wolves, a team that had lost 5 games in a row and knew that the results of the game versus TSM didn't matter for them in the slightest. They were DECIMATED by WE in a game that could only be described as one-sided. They did not 'deserve' to move on, like many fans, or they themselves could possibly claim. The same can be said of any team though. No one deserves to move on. If they do, if is because they earned it.
C9 does make it out but I don't know how far they will go, the thing what I feel really bad is why NA choking harder than even sometimes wildcard region , I mean even GAM would have made it out if they didn't lose steam after that amazing game with LZ. C9 again was saved by SKT and their incredible late game team fighting ability. EDG kinda deserved the place more in my opinion.Coming to FNC,I think they have a real good chance at least as far as western teams go, sadly MF ran into SKT and C9 tho has WE in their corner still don't know how it goes.But for now what it seems is we will have KR vs CHN semifinals on both ends as both RNG and WE look stronger.
Rathimas (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=EMPEROR SIVSHAN,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=00000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-10-14T13:35:27.698+0000) > > Svenskeren needs to be swapped out , even Mike Yeung is better in my opinion at this point. You lost me at mike yeung. Atleast Sven can play tanks
but Svens pathing is really not that good and teams like MISFIT won off that pathing of his which is really bad at least Mike Yeung pathing is better in my opinion
: 10 thoughts: Believe in NA
Also I think Kien Liam just cursed NA big time LOL by starting off with that bold prediction at the top of the list.ugh xD
: Dude seeing someone being over optimistic makes me laugh so hard. No offense XD there is only 0.1% or even lower chance for a NA team to get into finals. If that 0.1% really happened, it should be TSM not C9... Just think about it, SKT, RNG, LZ, WE, where is the place for NA????
You are right sir.NA teams proved it right LOL
Volks (NA)
: Yeah I agree with you, I think Svenskeren has to play with more confidence..DISCIPLINED but with confidence, The MSF game he never made an amazing play with sej he had many opportunity's,its better for Doublelift to get a wake up call now then later. As for IMT I think their odds are good, maybe they can get a game off of LGZ this time. C9 I think can do it as well. Im genuinely hopeful with NA this year to get at least 1 team to semis.
Svenskeren needs to be swapped out , even Mike Yeung is better in my opinion at this point.
: 10 thoughts: Believe in NA
And NA fails their fans yet again.What a drag?.When will they stop choking at weeks 2 ,it astonishes me.I want GAM to make it out and IMT to fall anyways but the way EU is showing up on worlds its amazing baring G2 all of them have exceeded expectations mostly even H2K at last year run.Congrats EU you have proven EU>NA and Rift rivals is just not a event to rank the teams I suppose. TSM especially needs to change their mentality and get a strong jungler + adc cause I think both Svenskeren and DLift is a liability.
: I agree, and I hope that NA can over come those issues. Maybe, just maybe, we don't have an all Korean finals again this year, but I have my doubts.
To be fair I thought TSM had the goods and can challenge SSG even get the Bo5 in my opinion with the way they finished their victories but when they fell to Misfits the same issues are kinda re-surfing again which I think is bad for NA.Now I think from what I've gathered from 1 week is that teams like RNG,WE,C9 and IMT can challenge SSG or even win 3-2 but we have to see how 2 week pans out
: I completely disagree. Korea is still light years ahead of everyone else. Its not close really. Every year western fans want to say the gap is closing but in the end Korea still proves them wrong. NA has gotten stronger just from the eye test but to say they will become the most dominant region is no offense wishful thinking by you. If anyone is going to take over Korea its going to be China. They have the biggest player base and talent base region in the world and have just as much infrastructure and money invested into their game as NA if not more. There is just no evidence for you to assume that Korea is going to be taken over by NA.
To be fair Korea isn't light years ahead of the other regions especially they way they showed up on first week.That being said they always are the masters of BO3 and BO5 also are favorites to win the whole thing but this year there is the possibility of at least one Korean teams not make it to semis-yes that's you SSG.I think all regions have their strong points and weak points.Just the Korean are very much tilt proof and the possibility of comebacks from them is very possible just like that SKT-EDG games.That is why Korea is always slightly better because they instill fear in other regions of always making a comeback that the other teams kinda either rush to their demise like EDG did or play very passive thus giving the Koreans an opening.When they do get that opening its all over for the opposite team cause it makes them be very indecisive of their plays thus the late game comeback haunts them for life.


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