Rioter Comments
: That was indeed the intent here, as clearly noted by my feedback right from the start, which offered constructive criticism, and even cited examples outside of my own opinion that could help guide discussion. My issue here isn't whether or not I am proven right, as ultimately no part of this effort has to do with me, but whether or not the person to whom I am offering my time and feedback is actually ready to receive criticism of any sort. In the above comment chain, I was quote mined, and otherwise attempted to be discredited via aspersions cast upon my character and the nature of my feedback through tone policing, a tactic you are currently employing right now. A critique does not have to be pure adulation to be valid, and I do think I have the right to denounce tactics that do not demonstrate good faith, or an attempt at productive discussion. I understand that you want to defend your friend on this matter, but I am not the one at fault here, as I have taken the time and effort to contribute to this discussion, even if my feedback was clearly received with prejudice. It puzzles me that you would go all the way down this comment chain just for me, when plenty more people on this very topic, let alone in other threads, have made far less constructive criticism, or simply far less useful posts overall. What exactly spurred this kind of prioritization?
Maybe I asked too nicely and used the wrong phrasing to imply this was up for debate. It's not. > My issue here isn't whether or not I am proven right, Then you don't need to leave off with a parting shot like: > My points, however, still stand, regardless of which tone one chooses to attribute to them. Lay off the aggressive approach to feedback, and definitely lay off the personal snipes at me advising you otherwise. As a tip: Line break more frequently. You have giant paragraphs that make it difficult to parse your posts when you're not forced to line break by quotes.
: That is entirely your prerogative. My points, however, still stand, regardless of which tone one chooses to attribute to them.
I'd really advise against this antagonistic approach to feedback on any concept in the future. The idea is to help people improve and refine their work, not for the person giving feedback to be proven right.
: Rivens Lore
+1 upvote. I've seen you in my own thread regarding this and everything you've said is spot on. It's a rather unnerving trend that old Riot, prior to their narrative department really getting into things, has done a better job at characterizing champions with far less resources available to them, and I hope that Riot doesn't forget their past and tries to build upon it instead of erase it. Not sure what's going on with the quotes though. I think it might be hitting some cap on how many quotes you can have. Which is unfortunate - try using three dashes instead. --- It makes a pretty cool line break like that, which might improve readability.
Echoing (NA)
: Confessions of a Broken Blade Resolves Issues Too Quickly.
Hah. Caught myself. > I'm not saying that's why you did this change to Riven, but let's be honest - you couldn't have written this story with old Riven and her Noxian ideals. This is false, actually. Instead of being haunted by the ghosts of weak Ionians that died because Riven was stronger, Riven is instead haunted by the ghosts of her squad, her family and trusted friends, killed because she didn't find out about the chemical weapon attack in time. Instead of being held on trial for killing one specific old man - which is somewhat contrived to begin with - she's held on trial for the chemical weapon attack. And instead of being forgiven because she didn't mean to kill the elder, she's forgiven because not even Noxus's greatest soldier is willing to defend the chemical weapon attack, and Riven's steadfast rejection of that is what convinces the people that a Noxian can be something more than just an oppressor. You lose out on Yasuo's presence, but this approach hits all the same story beats otherwise while maintaining Riven's old character. This could have been done. This could have been possible.
: Who says she doesn't believe in Noxus and it's values anymore? She lived through traumatic events and is recovering from it. Her whole theme is being a broken blade, but still a Noxian broken blade. A [quote]( from WAAARGHbobo (one of Riot's writers) after being asked if Riven's faction will be changed to Ionia: > Riven still represents the best of what Noxus is and could be. Currently she is being tempered and reforged by Ionia.
If that's what the best of Noxus is and could be, that is one hell of an insult to Noxus. This is what that looks like? Totally broken and in need of repair by a foreign country that couldn't even muster a guy strong enough to beat you to put it back together? It'd be difficult to write an even sicker burn than that. Given that I'm pretty partial to Noxus, this isn't encouraging to hear.
: Disagree. Riven still represents the best of what Noxus is and could be. Currently she is being _tempered_ and reforged by Ionia.
I don't think you really understand Riven, then, because the Riven here is nothing at all like the Riven we've had until now. If this was truly the best of what Noxus is and could be, why is she stuck in a suicidal state over perfectly justified killing? The strong survive in Noxus, so why would she feel guilt over defeating the weak in fair combat? In fact, that's why the chemical attack broke her - not just because it killed her buddies, but because it defied that basic rule of Noxus, the strong should prevail over the weak. To call this new Riven the best of what Noxus is and could be is a rather telling insult to Noxus. Yes, this new Riven should be classed as Ionian. It's happened before, like changing Ziggs from Piltover to Zaun. There isn't a hint of that Noxian idealism we've come to love about Riven in this new Riven's character.
GreenLore (EUW)
: I do agree that they shouldn't rush some plot points too fast. Though I feel like this was actually already a small problem in burning tides already,where it suddenly turned out that riot retconned the origin of twisted fates abilities and the circumstances of graves imprisonment,making the resolution feel like it came out of nowhere.(not to mention that MF all of a sudden knew already that GP killed her parents,wheras in the old lore it was a mystery) And tbh,I hoped to see a bit of mystery surrounding the death of elder souma,everything getting solved like this,with us not even knowing how Yasuo found Riven,felt a bit anticlimatic. However I can understand Riots decision to move the lore at such a fast speed,I mean we don't get many lore releases like this,so every release has to count. Trying to slowly build up a story like this doesn't really work,if the next time they revisit the story would be in 5 years.
There's a difference between a retcon, which changes the circumstances entirely, and an expansion, which adds more details to the circumstances. Miss Fortune having Gangplank as her parents' killer when it was previously unknown would be an expansion. Miss Fortune having dead parents when she had none would be a retcon. You're right, it is anticlimatic. We're led to believe this is going to be a huge thing, but you can tell just by how Riven's not doing anything that this story's not going to go anywhere exciting. I'll disagree with the necessity of rapidly moving forward stories though. That doesn't accomplish anything. Riot wants to put out the best product for the players. This is why I'm still a fan - they show an honest, earnest belief in that. That's also why this is confusing, as it seems like Riot's perpetually playing catchup in the lore department in nearly every way. You can favorably compare the story and writing in games like Bioshock, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Pyre, etc. to books and movies, mediums that live and die by their writing. I wish I could do the same with League of Legends, but with stories like these, it's just kinda stuck in this weird spot where it's better than nothing and that's about it. And it can be so much more than that, if Riot would stop, slow down, and figure out what makes a good story tick.
: I actually like this story. This Riven truly held onto the guilt of things and was as broken as he blade. She worked her ass off to get to where she was, only to be cast aside as collateral along with many she considered her Brothers and Sisters. They all believed in their father land, and they were killed for it. Seeing all of that would break just about anyone. Having barely survived she found herself before Elder Souma. She begs him to break her blade, break herself. Riven is at her weakest having the horrors of chemical warfare fresh in her mind and feeling she has nothing left. Souma agrees and tries to break it, but the Dark, Rune Magic in the blade retaliates and blasts the entire room, and with the wind power from Souma being part of that blast it looks like he was slain by his own technique. Riven freaks takes her broken blade and runs away, unintentionally leading to Yasuo getting blamed. Days later she is found near death and begging for it in the fields of the Old Couple. Having recently been broken themselves with the deaths of their sons they take her in, hoping to heal both her and themselves. Riven recovers some strength and becomes a farm hand. She is eventually found and taken to court. During it her mental blocks are lifted bit by bit and she is forced to face the ghosts of her pasts. After a quick fight with Yasuo and words from the lead judge Riven starts to become more at peace with things, and the next day she is sentenced to Live. She gets her title of Exile and is ordered to make good on reparations to all she has wronged. Thus this story arc ends and we get a Riven close to what we have in game. She has learned, she is slowly going to reforge herself. She and Yasuo now have their answers, it is up to them now to figure out how they make up for past mistakes. I just wish she got a new model at some point soon >.>
It's alright to like this Riven. Riot's got a good reason to move the story forward for Riven, since her story was otherwise literally impossible to achieve, as no way was she going to reform Noxus on her own without any allies. But what you've got there isn't actually an argument, it's a recap of the story. That doesn't refute any of the points I've brought up, chief among them is that we've had no time with this new Riven before she suddenly undergoes character development and loses a core flaw. And Automated Riven is right - this is a very different Riven from what we've had around since Season 1 and what we've heard in-game. That you would even say... > it is up to them now to figure out how they make up for past mistakes. ...shows just how far gone this new Riven is in characterization, as the old Riven would NEVER have considered fighting for Noxus a mistake.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: I like to think that there will be a second war between Noxus and Ionia, where she will come back to fight in order to protect her new home. She wants to be forgiven by the ghosts of the past, to reforge her weapon, and what better way than protecting their families and lands. I believe what we see now is a phase before her final appearance as a warrior that seeks both redemption and her old ideals. She will want to prove Noxus that the traditional thinking was the best, and she will continously measure her strength with the new Noxian combatants to find if she is wrong in believing that.
That seems like a logical next step from here. I wouldn't mind seeing that, actually, except that as far as we know, Riven's totally done with Noxus in every way. This is a marked departure from her old character. That, and Swain seems to be treating Ionia like we would treat invading Russia in the winter, so that's not super likely.
: I absolutely agree. I've made a couple posts here and there now about Riot's tendency to sum things up in their lore with rushed, flimsy resolutions. They need to learn to abstract time a little, and see the macro scale. One person changing deeply because of a single, epic event? Possible. Two people? Maybe. Four people? Unlikely. Six people? It starts to get a little ridiculous. Most people take months or even years to change, even following a major event. Character is only character if it's constant. If Riven doesn't have trouble letting go of her previous beliefs, if she doesn't shed them only after meaningful contemplation and insight into alternative ways of thinking, it feels like she doesn't really have character at all. "Proud badass" isn't a motivation, it's a persona. And a redundant one at that. She needs more, and I for one am not convinced that one long conversation with a wise old man (who belongs to a nation that had been her bitter enemy for at least four or five years!) is enough to provide that context for change.
Pretty much this. It's somewhat confusing: Riot's been playing the long game with their lore ever since they removed the Institute of War. And they've had a good reason for that - it lets them tell really big, dramatic stories. That's pretty cool. And then they backstab their long game by suddenly resolving issues? You're right. A single talk doesn't change anything. Even if it did, the actual change wouldn't happen overnight. Even if that was possible, it's highly improbable. You can sell the audience on how a game of poker is what the fate of the world hinges on, but they'll rightfully object if the hero wins with a royal flush over the villain's four of a kind.
: I'm split on this; on the one hand, this story developed too quickly to have any real meaning, like you said. For a confrontation built up for four years, it's rather underwhelming. Problem is, since the Great Retcon several years back, this is one of exactly two stories to progress from their starting point, the other being Bilgewater. At this point there is a substantial chance that most Champions' stories won't see continuation before the heat-death of the universe, and that's with them rushing resolutions like this.
Not true, actually! You forget the big Shuriman update, which DID move forward the story for Nasus, Xerath, Sivir, and Taliyah! It's pretty easy to forget since it didn't have a huge fancy event thing like Burning Tides, which is really tragic when you think about it.
: I feel like riven in her new lore is bland and useless. I fucking hate it. I have tried, (I am gonna go reread the color story on a few days) but the old riven had a purpose. The old riven believed in something (even if it did fail her, kinda) and she had a reason to fight and a reason to wield her sword. In fact the briliance of her original lore is that it explained her breaking the sword AND still having it. Riven other the new lore just feels like a worthless shade of her former self. She is suicidal in all but action. Her only redeeming quality as a character is her almost self depreciating respect for the farm couple. (She refused to defend herself for fear of spilling blood on farm land) The random obsession with her learning the words for siblings and parents didn't make sense considering how long she had lived with them (I believe a year but I can't say that for certain) This new lore flies in the face of everything she was as a character and everything her in game quotes depict her to be. I hate it.
Pretty valid concern. I'm mostly concerned with the process of what happened with Riven rather than the state of Riven right now, since if the process isn't addressed, it'll keep cropping up in future stories and won't be confined to just Riven.
Rioter Comments
: Hecarim: Drawing of Elderwood Hecarim
Why doesn't this have more attention? That looks awesome.
Rioter Comments
: Champions that actually need reworks. BADLY.
Then by all means post a rework. This IS Concepts and Creations, home of fan creations, up to and including champion reworks. If you're looking to bug Riot about it though, you're better off in Gameplay or General Discussion. Otherwise, let's hear what you've got in mind.
: January Contest: Definitely Not Jinx
Should have messaged me about this earlier. Pinned. I've informed the C&C Discord about this, accordingly.
: First place really deserved it, gj. Thanks Echoing!
No problem. I was pleasantly surprised on seeing your entry, and I hope to see more from you.
: @The Djinn | I Challange You
You forgot a condition if he wins. Come on, at least sweeten the deal a bit.
: Is this memes and games?
Archivist here. It's borderline but does bring up a good point re: Kled's place in the new Noxian lore, so I think we're good here despite the meme-y intro.
: question: has there ever been a perfect score in the history of the CCOS
Not that I know of. I think I'd smite the first judge who would give one.
Echoing (NA)
: [CCOS] December-January CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
[Results are up.](
Rioter Comments
: Does RIOT actually look at our concepts and consider adding any of them to the game?
Riot will never do a 1:1 port of anything from C&C for a laundry list of legal reasons. They will, however, occasionally take a look, especially if they've got a theme in mind and are looking for other iterations on that theme to see what people think matches that theme. A few skin ideas, like Surprise Party Fiddlesticks and Battle Bunny Riven, also started from the boards. Generally, do things for the art, and smile if Riot releases something vaguely similar - don't do it specifically to see your stuff in-game.
: Hey Echoing, if I can interject here, since I can't help but feel this is all my fault since my comment started all this, but what exactly is the problem?
It's not your fault. Don't blame yourself. Mostly it's because I'm sick and tired of catching flak for doing my best and falling short anyways. It feels like there's this ongoing expectation that the CCOS is some sort of fundamental right instead of just a guy trying to help the community improve their art. Mainly, I'm really pissed at the lack of understanding re: quality, real life issues, and why these cause delays. It'll be better this month, don't worry.
Màx (NA)
: Lol. I literally said XD, you're being **too** sensitive dude. (The fact that you even asked people to upvote you because you didn't do any judging in December, and people didn't like it is being too sensitive.) I was gonna judge next month anyway, so it's not like I had a concept ready.
Ah yes, clearly the best response to getting banned from participating in the next CCOS for laughing at the hope that the results will arrive on time is to laugh some more, call the person running it too sensitive, and then declare you're going to judge next contest. All without even the slightest hint of respect or remorse. Judging application denied. If you continue, you won't be participating in any other CCOSes as a contestant or a judge.
Solicitude (EUNE)
: But its unfortunate that you have only one more judge. With so many people in the boards i thought there would be more who would want to become judges. I was planning to make to make a concept for the next CCOS, but as things seem to be, id rather be one of the judges.
It's a toss up as to how many I get. Usually, at least one doesn't make it to the end either. Email me or DM on Discord if you're interested.
: I didn't mean to be disrespectful or make a snide comment. All I did is make a simple statement about me wishing that it won't be late again, I know real life has a funny way of taking our plans and throwing them into the gutter at a moments notice. I apologize if my statement offended or upset you and if it is late again then I'm sure you have your reasons. I understand that this is just something for fun and to help give feedback that is meant to be constructive and helpful so you aren't actually bound by any real real obligation to get it down on schedule.
Oh no you're fine, no worries there. That was aimed at Max.
Màx (NA)
Yeah, you're banned from the next CCOS. I'm running this as a volunteer thing. The last thing I need to deal with is people mocking schedule slips and making snide comments. It's incredibly disrespectful to the work I put in, and even more so to the efforts of my volunteer judges. We're doing our best to make sure you get useful feedback on your concepts that surpasses the average poster, and that takes time, sometimes more time than we anticipated after factoring in real life. I'll put out an open challenge to everyone else: If you don't like how I do things, do it better. If you can outdo me, my job is done.
Echoing (NA)
: [CCOS] December-January CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
Hit a snag. My only other judge has been hit hard with real life stuff, and I'm really averse to only giving my scores. I should have the results either tonight or tomorrow. My apologies for the delay.
: Swain gave orders to his Noxian soldiers to systematically rape, murder and pillage ionian villagers during the Noxus-Ionia war. He allowed the rape of countless ionian women at the hands of his soldiers. Swain is a usurper, tyrant, murderer, rapist, pillager and a war criminal. He needs to be tried at the intentional criminal court of runeterra for war crimes. Too bad the institute of war doesn't exist, otherwise I wish the institute would hang this mass murdering sociopath.
Solicitude (EUNE)
: Is there anywhere we can see previous CCOS winning concepts? _3d8 Intelligence saving throw vs 20_
There was a CCOS archive when Sir ArmaMalum was doing this, but I never really bothered updating it when it was my turn. You can generally go through my past threads and find the results threads and you'll find them easily enough.
Timperman (EUW)
: Finally back into this. My entry is: [Reun and Koi'Rat, The Icathian Hunters]( It's a dual champion in the marksman role that could probably jungle quite well.
: Hi, i want to participate. Here: [Iblion, the Fallen One]( Sorry for the typo ~~Character~~ Concept --> **Champion** Concept
Solicitude (EUNE)
: Hello! I want to enter my [Kira, the Death Reaper]( in the contest.
: I have yet to enter a contest and this is really what I've been looking forward to since I started making champion concepts on this board. Can't wait to give it a shot! I have artist friends on the line ready to help draw this champ for me XD. Creu, the Corrupted Trader I uh... I don't know how to put a link into a name. Sorry!
: Since i think its high time to enter a contest since i haven't in a while, here is my entry: [Nagru, the Perfected Form]( I haven't been entering since i haven't been able to perfect my post as i liked with new work, but here i go anyway. ######Pssssst Echoing, your "limit one entry per player dates/years need some editing. This part of the message will self destruct when you complete the mission.
Chrysi7 (NA)
: Wait, so we have to wait another month for the results of last month? I cannot help but be beyond frustrated at this. Also, if you don't mind me asking but, why were you unavailable to even be contacted? I attempted to contact you multiple times..
> [{quoted}](name=Chrysi7,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=enBzdrha,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-01-15T10:59:25.683+0000) > > Wait, so we have to wait another month for the results of last month? I cannot help but be beyond frustrated at this. _passes saving throw_ I'm sorry you're frustrated. I'm at least making sure this gets wrapped up instead of either fading away forever or making someone else pick up the slack. I didn't reply because I didn't want to reply to you.
Màx (NA)
: Why not just finish the December contest and start the January one after?
Twofold reason: 1. Time. It'd take me some time to hammer out all the judging since I didn't do any yet, so that would cause further delays. I say me and not the judges because... 2. I don't have any judges. I don't like being the only guy judging as it makes the scores way too swingy.
: Hi I would like to enter [Pneuma, Scourge of the Living]( into the contest please! Thanks :D
: Well at least you aren't dead, just what happened exactly? If it's something too personal then don't answer, but I, and I think a few others would agree with me, was a little peeved that all forms of contract we tried didn't go through.
Did you try hitting me up on the C&C Discord? It's one of those things I have where if I know I've made a mistake (not checking in regularly), it gets harder and harder to even acknowledge it (going back in and making a post). It's a personal thing of mine. I got too lazy and let the thing slide too far. I'm going to fix that now.
Rioter Comments
: If it's not to late, I have a champion for [this]( Want to try your chances against the Devil's Luck?
Not even close to being late! Entry confirmed, just don't forget to leave a review!
: [Wrath]( would like to attend this contest.
No lore. I can't take this. Given my feedback on the Discord, you might be better off with someone else anyways. There's still time.
: I will be entering this one maybe
Bobo113 (NA)
: Eh. Why not. . . [Bishop - The Equalizer](
Entry confirmed! Don't forget to review!
: Fear the void...for [Nah'Kasar]( has entered the Fields of Justice, and he will not rest until the entirety of Runeterra looks like the Void.
Entry confirmed! Be sure to leave a review!
: It's been a while.
FOR THE SWARM! Remember to review someone.
Chrysi7 (NA)
: Winter is coming, and so is [Eiskalte](!
Entry confirmed! Really good artwork by the way.
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