: {{item:3155}} is no secret. If you're AD and don't rush this item vs. every AP enemy, you're just dumb. It's literally a 1300g you will never kill me if I'm not an idiot item.
Hmmmm I don't know about that. I main Wukong and I don't feel the need to rush Hex in some AP matchups. I won't rush it in matchups that they don't have kill pressure on me. I won't build it against Rumble or Vlad but I would against Swain
: You can't use champion.gg as an estimate for decent Vlad players. As an obvious example, look at the most common rune page. lol __________ Another example? Most common starting item. The best starting items for Vlad are boots+4 or Dark Seal+3. There's essentially 0 point in starting anything else. __________ Another example? Summoner spells. TP Vlad is actual garbage. The overall map presense and laning pressure you have with Flash+Ghost is far superior. Considering the lack of hard CC, the increased cast time of TP made it useless on him. You can see when fights are going to start in most cases and roam there, arriving at a similar time to when you'd TP, but with two mobility summoners; far superior throughout the game. __________ ________ The Wukong match-up is not as hard as you're making it out to be. E has a relatively long CD early, allowing plenty of time for Vlad to auto in retaliation as Wu runs from creeps. If the jungler leaves Gromp for healing you easily can pull things over on Wu too. Force Wu to OOM early and you've won. The problem is that most Vlads don't know how to play the early game into many match-ups, which is why Quinn, Darius, and Wu have such high winrates vs him. Those are all exceedingly easy match-ups to scale into if you don't feed kills early. I fear a Ghost+Flash+Stormraider's Darius more than Wu any day.
You cant really auto me in retaliation because I'm going to be popping my clone to get out and avoid creep damage anyway. After 6 there really is nothing Vlad can do. Ghost isn't enough movement speed to counteract the movement speed I get from my ult. Once Wu is 6 you go in for one E>auto>Q combo. If Vlad wastes his pool he's dead 100% when your E comes off cooldown. If he doesn't he's still dead because I'll still kill him even if he pools a few seconds of my ult. If I wasn't at work I would say we could try it out in a custom game
333 (EUNE)
: Everyone complaining about Ahri but Lucian 53% Winrate 51% Pickrate?
Everyone knows Lucian needs nerfs. The difference is that nobody denies it. Also, more then one champion being OP doesn't mean others can't be as well. This whole smokescreen BS people use on the boards is getting old. Yes, Lucian needs nerfs for sure. That doesn't mean other champs don't need nerfs too
: Wukong is 50-50. Its easy to beat most Vlads with Wu, but a well-played Vlad can stop your E damage and kite with W->E detonation, invalidating your E->Auto->Q harass while retaliating very hard, especially those that take Stormraider's. It basically snowballs one way or the other, although the Vlad has to play much more consistently and tediously than the Wu. The match-up is only really 'hard' if Wu takes ignite...in which case Wu ends up a liability in comparison if he doesn't essentially remove Vlad from the game.
Nooooooooooooooo no no no. Wukong vs Vlad is not a 50-50. Wukong absolutely slaughters this matchup. It is hands down my easiest matchup. Even easier than Gnar. Wukong with half a clue demolishes even experienced Vlad players. You can't stop Wukong's E>Auto>Q combo because Vlad's W has a 28 second cooldown. Don't forget that it also costs 20% of his current HP essentially as true damage. Vlad's Q range is shorter than Wu's E range and Wu's E has an 8 second CD. If Vlad ever wants to Q anything he won't be able to avoid me jumping on him. I'll just stand on my minions and any time he wants to Q literally anything I'll jump him. Vlad's E is worthless because I can simply block it with my clone. At 6 this matchup become so trivial that if Vlad ever comes near me, I force an all in and kill him every single time. This is an absolute massacre of a matchup. Vlad's only choice is to be completely zoned away from CS at almost all times. Vlad is exceptionally weak to any champ that can force trades frequently early which is something Wu can do very well. http://imgur.com/a/6ViTi
: I'm gunna let you all in on a secret about fighting Vlad, specifically top.
I main Wukong and Vlad is my easiest matchup. Tricks to beating Vlad is to fight him every chance you get. His early game sustain is awful and his W and E have huge HP costs. Don't let him sit there and sustain back up. Even forcing him to use his W is a win because of the very high HP cost and long CD.
: They never learn from previous mistakes with mobility creep. I mean, they reworked {{champion:236}} into being able to get his E down to something like a 2 second cd so he could perma kite people and then thought releasing this {{champion:429}} abomination was a good idea.
I remember that patch it was supposed to be a "nerf" for Lucian. I remember reading the patch notes and laughing. Lucian on that patch was probably the most fun champion to play ever IMO. Broken for sure, but holy hell was he fun hahaha Pew pew dash pew pew pew pew dash pew pew pew dash pew pew
: Just because rito is stupid about nerfing other champions doesn't mean they have to be with all of them. I just don't think, "she hasn't been nerfed to unviable" is a negative thing lol.
Its a negative thing when talking about Lee Sin though because boards
Enloct (NA)
: IDK who tf said Jhin is a generalist but they are an idiot. He has very clear, very pronounced strengths and weaknesses. Lee is a specialist who specializes is being the best at everything. He literally got buffed because he _wasn't _ OP. On a serious note though, Ahri is comparable to Jhin because to a large externt her strengths cover up her weaknesses. When you are excessively mobile and long ranged it doesnt really matter if you are squishy/unreliable because you can prevent the enemy from exploiting that by simply disengaging until you get a lucky hit or something. One of the reasons why Ahri's Q speed buff is a horrible idea because she literally has a disengage on every trade.
He's not. Despite popular opinion, he does have strengths and weaknesses. His strength is his early game for sure. Mediocre jungle clear. He's scales like crap into the mid/late game unless hyperfed. He's bad at teamfighting. He's bad at sieging. A champion doesn't have a 49% winrate because they have no weaknesses
: I don't play Ahri and i'm not saying she doesn't deserve maybe a slight nerf. But i don't think winrate is an accurate mesure of a champion's balance. We've got to take a look at what the champion offers. One of the reason why Sona can get away with her current winrate, is because she offers nothing _**specific**_ to a team composition. She doesn't have a niche role. If Morgana had the same winrate as Sona, while ALSO providing her niche ability of being a strong counter vs hard engages like Blitz/Thresh/Leona, there would be absolutely no reason to take Sona over Morgana. A strong winrate is all Sona can offer unlike Morgana. Ahri is somewhat in the same boat. She's not the best at assassination or the best mage, but she is safe and offers an overall stonger winrate.
> Ahri is somewhat in the same boat. She's not the best at assassination or the best mage, but she is safe and offers an overall stonger winrate. That's weird because the community just tar and feathered Jhin for being a "generalist" because of his pick and win rate. Also applies to the perpetual Lee Sin hatred
Rioter Comments
Mallecke (NA)
: who do you think is the most healthy champion right now?
{{champion:61}} probably has the most balanced kit. No mobility with **extremely** telegraphed damage. Doesn't have obnoxious range. No point-and-clicks. No obnoxious amounts of CC. No obnoxious base damages and actually needs items. Can synergize with her team via ball delivery. Any problems with her ever can simply be solved with minor numbers adjustments
: I'm hearing numbers and no explanations~ Maybe some actual opinions instead of statistics? I mean, Ivern is at 58% and nobody is saying anything while the Lulu threads at least are pointing out the issues with her Pix and Shield.
> I mean, Ivern is at 58% and nobody is saying anything Lmao right on the front page https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/aofAyM3w-patch-614-sona-hits-58-wr-gets-hotfix-nerfs-receives-more-nerfs-on-the-two-following-patches https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mcLcqcgp-there-is-actually-a-champion-that-makes-allies-invisible
: While you are at it Explain why she is overpowered compared to every other mid laner right now, I'm sure you know and can explain in detail since you are so confident to post your opinion
Highest pick rate and 2nd highest win rate for mid. Totally fine. No issues here
: Tf doesn't counter Ahri, neither does fiddle, everything else can work tho Hi I'm an Ahri icon, Fk you
The graph clearly says TF doesn't. Thanks for agreeing with me
Rioter Comments
SatomiKun (EUW)
: He doesn't mean that Lucian has a playstyle that feels too close to other marksmen, He means that Lucian has no specific niche, no special **task** he excels at. Lucian is simply good at everything and not really bad at something, he is a generalist and while being a generalist can be a niche, it is an unhealthy one (because of what I described).
> Lucian is simply good at everything and not really bad at something This is a lie. He has no utility and low range. He's bad at sieging outside of burning his ult to clear one wave. No real poke. No CC. Worthless when behind.
: They already have a system in practice mode to ease the load on the servers. The game automatically ends after 60 minutes. Also, depending on what you're doing, you might not be moving / you might not want to move. However, you may still be casting spells. The afk check doesn't check for that, though.
> However, you may still be casting spells. The afk check doesn't check for that, though. Yes it does
awdaf (NA)
: Can we talk about Hecarim and how completely broken he is?
When in doubt, arbitrarily list out random strengths and refute any obvious weaknesses
: Sona will never be good in Masters+ and the simple reason why
More like her kit in general isn't good. The only way she could be viable is if they artificially made her strong but buffing her numbers. That would never happen because it would make her insanely broken in low ELO. Unless we're taking about a full scale rework in which case it's not even the same champion anymore really
SatomiKun (EUW)
: That's not the point. The point is that since the marksmen update most of the marksmen have an identity, a reason why you pick them. Quinn is the roamer. Caitlyn is for siege. Graves is the melee marksman. Corki is the magic damage marksman. Jinx is AoE dps. And so on. Riot admitted some while ago that one problem of the marksmen update was that they left Lucian as a generalist. He is pretty good at much stuff. He has burst and dueling power, sustained damage and decent team fighting, is a lane bully and pretty safe because of his dash.... He is good at much stuff so whenever he is strong he crowds out everyone else. And at the same time he has no unique reason to be picked.
> That's not the point. The title of the thread: > Can we give Lucian an identity What?
: Riot, If i'm on a winstreak..
***OR***......maybe it had nothing to do with you being on a win streak and you got a troll by luck of the draw
: Is it me or is Lucian rather overtuned right now?
Yeah he could use some minor adjusting to justify the play rate
Hrd2H1t (NA)
: Can we disable AFK check in training mode?
It makes perfect sense. They're creating an entire game for one person. You standing there afk taxes their servers. Why should they waste their resources that they're giving you for free to begin with when you aren't even playing? What isn't there to understand? There's no such thing as a free lunch.
: MF should get some power shifted out of her ult into the rest of her kit.
: Can we give Lucian an identity besides "outstats everyone when good and sucks when stats are low"
Lucian has a very unique identity. He has a style of play that is very specific to him
: I do. Ahri is busted and needs a nerf to actually give her weaknesses. Much like Orianna, she doesn't have any.
Orianna has weaknesses. No mobility and extremely telegraphed damage. Orianna is the shining example of a balanced kit. Any problems with her ever can easily be solved with minor numbers adjustments
: Morde has shitty hp, you'd have to stack a ton of HP for it to deal respectable damage when you're better off just getting AP, AD or a mix
Well to be fair it probably would be awesome if he did reset his Q AA timer. Think of how much burst that would be from 2nd hit> active>3rd hit>W in half a second. It would be comical
Dr Poro (EUW)
: CS counts too hard towards Grades in ARAM and RGMs
Honestly I don't see CS as counting towards much in ARAM. To me it seems grades are piratically random. I can have like a 12:1 KDA with some decent farm and get an A- then have a 4:1 KDA with no CS on a similar champion the next game and get a S-
: Honestly, black cleaver just needs to be deleted
If they remove BC then Tank's damage needs to be completely gutted. No more %HP and high base damage bandaids
: Considering Lucian has double her pick rate, I think he has a slightly larger issue.
Lucian could use a small nerf tbh, but so does Ahri.
: So Morde's Q is coded as an AoE spell (shocker)
Hate to be that guy...... but I got Morde in an ARAM last night and even I noticed this. I got reasonably fed and I was expecting a good chunk of HP on my 3rd Q proc. When I got almost none I thought something was off. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2459975811/209139549?tab=overview
: Support items should give XP when in the jungle/river
Jungle main here. I can say I would straight up abuse the shit out of these items js
: Also titanic hydra doesn't reset his auto while Q is on.
: Dynamic Queue is the 1 reason everyone has inflated MMR and you see so many people with 20% win rates in ranked, cause they got carried by 4 or 5 man queues.
: pretty sure people wanted to remove 4 mans from the dynamic queue, not the actual role selection itself.
.....Dynamic Queue has absolutely nothing to do with role selecting
: Should there be a "Specialist" class like in HotS?
: Except his winrate doesn't drop as a result, which means at least right now he's busted.
Then you must also agree Ahri is broken?
Lyseth (NA)
: mid as {{champion:103}} and {{champion:45}} , I hate going against {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:42}}
{{item:3157}} babbbbbyyyyyy
: Lightslinger reducing Relentless Pursuits' cooldown tends to make him too mobile over half the time imo. At least when I played the game more often anyways.
The cooldown on relentless pursuit got increased a few times to offset it in the past. Rank 1 it has an 18 second CD and only goes down to 14 seconds at rank 5.
: Why is Lucian never just okay?
Because he's a ton of fun to play. When he's viable his pick rate goes nuts
Lyseth (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bQWuwPzx,comment-id=000c00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-26T04:38:46.709+0000) > > You're still are using the same straw man argument. Just because one champion is overtuned doesn't mean others cant be as well. Shaco being OP has nothing to do with Ahri's balance. You're just trying to deflect the issue onto something else No, my point is, people need to look at more than just 1 champ as being overtuned, but some need it more immediately than others, Shaco being in need of it sooner, I agree Ahri can stand for a nerf, but not as badly as Shaco needs it.
..... this is the same straw man argument...... Why cant they both get nerfed? There is no reason they can't.
Lyseth (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bQWuwPzx,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-26T04:31:01.743+0000) > > Lol check the front page. > > *What if*.....**Both** could be looked at and we stopped using smokescreen straw man arguments to deflect the issue? Well look at it this way, {{champion:35}}, can go full tank and still burst like it's nothing, has THE BEST stealth in the game, mimic's LB's clone, but better since it drops boxes when killed. {{champion:103}}, just burst and mobility, She's just like {{champion:55}} but doesn't reset cd and relies on mana and is extremely mana hungry, CANNOT go full tank and remain functional. Which is worse to deal with?
You're still are using the same straw man argument. Just because one champion is overtuned doesn't mean others cant be as well. Shaco being OP has nothing to do with Ahri's balance. You're just trying to deflect the issue onto something else
Lyseth (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bQWuwPzx,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2017-03-26T04:27:48.957+0000) > > Straw man argument. > > *What if*.......**BOTH** were overtuned? Well people should start worrying about Shaco first then since he's got a bigger winrate and ban rate than Ahri.
> people should start worrying about Shaco first then Lol check the front page. *What if*.....**Both** could be looked at and we stopped using smokescreen straw man arguments to deflect the issue?
Lyseth (NA)
: So 53% winrate on {{champion:103}} is a bad thing, but 55% winrate on {{champion:35}} is a-okay? http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/88/883eeecfdec28febd736510b0bfe93add9f9eb221bd2462a99ad83a4e4638ba5.jpg
Straw man argument. *What if*.......**BOTH** were overtuned?
Dr Mercy (NA)
: Look, you're going to need to learn, that Winrate alone is not whether something should get nerfed. There's a lot of other factors you need to keep in mind of. For example, look at her average winrate *By dedicated players* and you'll see that it's 56%, which is actually fairly average compared to many other champions. Dedicated Mains normally have 54%+ winrate, because they're experienced. Ahri, as we can all admit, is fairly easy to play, so there isn't much of a gap between her skill floor and skill gap. As such, it doesn't take a whole lot to be good with her (there is still a degree, but not a whole lot). Because of that, a lot of Ahri players are near that skill ceiling, since it isn't hard to get to it, which means the Average winrate for Ahri is going to be closer to the Dedicated Main Winrate.
> Look, you're going to need to learn, that Winrate alone is not whether something should get nerfed Yet when any champ that isnt a mage or support hits similar numbers, the board forms a lynch mob to destroy them. I.E. Lucian, Jhin, Vayne, Lee, etc. "High pickrate should deflate their winrate! High pick rate and win rate means they're a generalist!"
LuIú (NA)
: Neither Janna nor Lulu are OP lol
I didn't say anything about them being OP. I was referencing the fact that people use champs to smokescreen discussions on others
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TngN1OFi,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-26T02:46:31.507+0000) > > No, but throwing insults at someone with a thought out argument while providing none of your own must be pretty embarrassing. Do you even play? It appears you only play against bots https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ZTEQ3UM8-when-is-ivern-getting-addressed?comment=000000000000 Stop projecting your sins on to me.
You seem like you need to take a break and calm down. You're getting awfully upset about some comments on a forum for a game you don't really seem to play
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TngN1OFi,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-26T02:38:09.789+0000) > > You havent even made an argument. All you've done is say I'm "complaining about him in a vacuum" when I have the proof I'm not. > > I'm not sure where you're getting 3 from, but I've only made 2 threads referencing Ivern. One directly and this one indirectly. I don't need an argument. The burden of proof is on you, and you've made nothing but empty, self-referential statements (like the one I'm quoting.) >Gonna stop you there. You're going to have to find a better excuse than throwing a smokescreen with Lee Sin circlejerk QQ. Classic boards. When the numbers are against you, deflect with other champs. L O L This must be really embarrassing for you. The hypocrisy and all. Your skin deep pseudo-analysis is not more valid than the claims you dismissed as smokescreening. That's a serious dose of cognitive dissonance. I can't tell if its arrogance or ignorance that informs your dumb opinions, but please, keep them to yourself.
No, but throwing insults at someone with a thought out argument while providing none of your own must be pretty embarrassing. Do you even play? It appears you only play against bots
: Or alternatively Ivern is perfectly fine and the items are actually the problem. Karma and Lulu permashielding isn't fun nor fair, especially with their strong lane power. Sona's late game is absurd, but at least she isn't permashielding.
Thats option 2 > 2) Attack how ridiculously efficient these support items are
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