: Lets see how it actually plays before calling it an incredible patch.
It's incredible in the sense that the Balance Team is finally addressing a lot of things that makes SENSE rather than throw numbers and cooldowns here and there. It shows an attention to detail and an understanding that I honestly had believed they'd lost. It just restores my faith a bit is all.
Rioter Comments
EyasHawk (EUW)
: To be honest nerfing duskblade might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Sure, we can expect to see a significant drop in winrate for AD assassins like Talon and Zed but that will just help Riot realize how bad of a spot assassins and lethality truly are in. I mean, you basically NEED to rely on an overloaded item to do anything at all. So maybe nerf the item, and fix the champions. That way it won't be abused by people who shouldnt be building it and assassins will get some power back.
Rioter Comments
Lovesick (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=EinarUlfar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q7rA7Te2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-15T11:42:39.040+0000) > > The fuck? How long have you been playing this game and where have you been? > > The jungle’s a joke right now. With extremely high influence, low camp respawn timers, mostly healthy clears, and little exp/gold drawbacks for frequent influencing of lanes rather than farming. Literally the only thing objectively wrong in his Jungle points is “influence lane **OR** game.” Everything else is accurate, and appropriate changes would greatly benefit the flow of the game and potentially Top Lane as well. No, camps take ages to respawn, that's why junglers are pretty much sitting in lanes for almost 2 minutes at a time. But your other points are entirely correct.
I meant low as in they respawn very infrequently. Sorry, I should have been more clear on that. Was in a rush to reply before class!
: Literally all your points about jungle are wrong. Just thought I'd point that out.
The fuck? How long have you been playing this game and where have you been? The jungle’s a joke right now. With extremely high influence, low camp respawn timers, mostly healthy clears, and little exp/gold drawbacks for frequent influencing of lanes rather than farming. Literally the only thing objectively wrong in his Jungle points is “influence lane **OR** game.” Everything else is accurate, and appropriate changes would greatly benefit the flow of the game and potentially Top Lane as well.
: Bruh what are you asking? If this happened then the balance team would get like, 5 dashes added onto their kit.
Rioter Comments
: So junglers are stronger because they can gank more because towers are squishy and its easy to shutdown toplaners. Towers have received ONLY BUFFS since Season 5. Top laners being easy to shutdown is a completely abstract idea and only depends on the players in a game, it has absolutely nothing to do with any changes that have been done to the game. ADCs coming online at 1-2 items is just not true, the only adcs that are strong with one item are the ones that build Rageblade, and Kog just received a nerf this patch. In Season 7 players overwhelmingly complained that ADCs were too weak, which is why they got their item costs reduced, thats the only notable change to them since. They don't abuse the new runes in any way, their options are Fleet Footwork, which is at best on par with the old Warlords, Press the Attack, which is Fervor with less damage on the actual ADC plus amplification for other sources of damage which previously didn't exist, and Lethal Tempo, which is a niche rune that pretty much only Kalista takes. If there is anything wrong right now with the botlane, is the fact that Tank supports are too tanky, especially Alistar with Aftershock, but thats about it. Duskblade really isn't that much different from Youmuus, the only champion that can easily abuse the bonus damage is Kha. In fact, if you look at the different builds for Zed and Talon, they have a HIGHER winrate going Youmuus before Duskblade, so basically, another complaint thats total bogus. And even if Duskblade was significantly better than Youmuus, I don't know why that would be a bad thing, plenty of champions have to rush specific items, and in the past, the only option AD assassins had for first items was Brutalizer which built into Youmuus. That was literally the only early penetration item they could build. So still, all your arguments are just parroting of other peoples opinions, arguments that are flat out wrong, but amplifying the negativity by implying the balance team should be fired, has no idea what they're doing and what not. At some point, there was even a post with the opggs of the riot balance team, which were nearly all diamond accounts. In literally every Season and every meta with no exception, players have complained when they have obviously no clue what theyre talking about.
They CAN gank more because camps have more downtime whilst offering substantial EXP in relation to Lane CS/EXP. If you haven't watched the #1 Korean Jungler, you've been missing out. It's literally red(or blue)>wolves>blue(or red) then camping the respective side he ends that Lv3 clear on until they're unable to be relevant. Then does that pattern again (or doesn't) followed by camping another lane until that side of the map is irrelevant on the enemy team. Shutting down Top Lane **is** more easily done following the changes to Jungler camps + Smite, in turn allowing Top Lane to be a 2v1 / 2v2 more frequently with Junglers having less downtime(from lanes), Smite to heal, What is your logic in believing otherwise? FYI Towers have NOT only received buffs since Season 5, that's false. In 5.5, Inner Mid turrets lost their shield alongside the ability to shield nearby champions. In 5.12, Turret Lasers lost their slow and Champion Damage Reduction. In 5.22, ALL inner turrets lost their ability to shield nearby champions. Atop this, AP Damage VS Turrets was altered in a way that AP Champions are more effective in their damage VS turrets. In 6.9, they were given the ability to be affected by MPEN + ARPEN/LETHALITY. In 6.15, Turret's Fortification Duration was reduced, and Bot Lane's Outer Turret completely lost the Fortification buff. In 6.22, Turrets lost the lasers; which were more consistent sources of damage for the protection of inhibitors than turret shots are. ADC's coming online at 1-2 items is ABSOLUTELY true. You would be standing alone if you actually held the false belief that Stattik Shiv + IE isn't enough for ADCs to come online now. You'd be arguing against players AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL of the GAME if you argued against that. I'm not saying it's not justified, because even Imaqtpie has argued that it's debatably necessary for his class (among those using Crit) to deal with the current game pacing. Rageblade Users and Kog have been very solid Laners, and that's why they've been meta (and not just mere exceptions to your belief that ADCs aren't scaling faster) -- because the game pacing is increased, and being a solid laner is VERY important in a faster-paced LoL meta in which allowing a tank to scale is dangerous at the moment. On that note, Tanks don't all-around feel bad, (part of why Riot is being so careful with the new Bone Plating) but Bruisers do. Notice I didn't say Bruisers couldn't win games, I said they feel bad to play. I'll agree 100% with the lack of abuse cases on the Precision keystones. From what I've seen, Riot took care of ensuring none of them would heavily outshine the others in terms of power after evaluating where they sat in the beginning of S8. As far as the Duskblade issue, we can agree to disagree. After doing the math using collective total of games and games won rushing either item first, Duskblade has a significantly higher % success rate on Talon. The gap between the two on Zed is much smaller, however. So it ultimately boils down to a case-by-case basis, but my issue OVERALL with Duskblade is I genuinely feel we could give more to AD Kits of Champions that get a ridiculous powerspike from it. The powerspike from DB is very noticeable as a first-item-rush, enough to often feel overbearing to the opposition (I also feel the ward detection isn't necessary on top of the damage passive) but that may admittedly be because it's a damage-centric item with a guaranteed massive spike in BURST upon completion. And again, my arguments aren't parroting off of other's opinions; I don't need nor DO I borrow the opinion of the Boards or Challenger players prior to making my own analysis. I merely view the game and it's changes in a way that others do as well. I'm not here to "amplify negativity", but rather to share my frustration with the game's direction and how much of a stark contrast where we ARE is to where we WERE. Boards members will always complain, whether justifiably or not; but regardless, at the end of the day, you need to get your facts straight if you're going to resort to Rank Shaming to attempt to hold up your argument on the boards. My post does not call for the firing of the Balance Team, but it is an effort to call OUT the Balance Team for their decisions. I've been saying for some time now that the Balance Team should reconsider their approach to the game, and if you'd like, I've got proof of a Rioter apologizing for the state of Season 7 and leaving me with the sentiment that they personally feel Duskblade should be looked at as well as the pacing of the game -- so I'm not alone in the way I feel about the game. I'm not some loony Silver-Gold player -- I try my best to do my homework before I speak.
Rioter Comments
: Game Would Be Dead If Balance Team Listened To Majority Of The Boards
The irony of this post is *a LOT* of what the Boards say **lately** is echoed by the likes of Imaqtpie, Scarra, and Tyler1 when they bring up Balance. But I understand, the boards do at times post things out of sheer frustration with little sound argument to support it.
SomeKat (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Anatera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ZqZ5Lxm,comment-id=0009000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T21:12:53.694+0000) > > Nobody said that. Stop trying to make stuff up. ...It's called mockery, or sarcasm, obviously he didn't literally say that. I seriously have to explain that? You're as observant as him...My point is he's CLEARLY a noob, not an experienced perspective. And nothing he typed is why he lost any of those games, and wrote this post.
That doesn't even breed discussion revolving around the topic at hand. Again with the ad hominem attacks, because you don't want to actually discuss/debate. If you want me to justify not being "OMFG GREAT" at Kat, I picked up Mid Lane & Katarina in the last 2-3 weeks of Season 7. Prior to this, I was a Support-only player for 3.5 years outside of being filled (or playing around with friends). If you're using data from this season, it's because I intentionally fed and built items that I shouldn't as Katarina throughout my placements out of interest in A) Testing the report/behavior system[It failed miserably at picking up my inting despite me ANNOUNCING I was inting], and B) See what climbing from as low-as-possible would be like in S8 given the Runes Reforged overhaul. If you average up my Kat KDAs, even with 7-10 INTING games, the average is still decent because I typically perform decently on her. P.S. Feel free to send me a Friend Request and we can duel Kat v Kat if that would help quell your frustration.
: A point that I agree with wholeheartedly is turrets. They are made out of paper for crying out loud, turrets go down way too fast and with the right champions ({{champion:18}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:75}} ) you can bulldoze your way to a forced victory. What happened to the turrets???
Damage increased overall, turrets were allowed to be affected by all forms of Penetration, Rift Herald was implemented, Demolish was implemented, implemented a change where AP users do AA damage based off their AP rather than AD to turrets to contribute more heavily to turret damage. There may be other factors I'm missing.
: Except that most of what you say is flat out untrue. Junglers are op and can gank and camp too much? Junglers used to be op way back before all the xp changes and when someone like graves could powerfarm and 1v5, these days are way over. Camping a lane has huge drawbacks against competent players with map awareness, who will just survive or win a 1v2 while their jungler counterjungles, counterganks, basically does anything that isnt wasting time. They could make camps respawn twice as fast and it would almost have 0 effect on your gameplay in silver 5. ADCs are op and their builds are too cheap? How? They were a fkin meme in s7 and got their build cost reduced rightfully so, the only outstanders now were Kog who got nerfed last patch, and maybe Varus who still spikes pretty hard with rageblade but nothing completely insane. AD assassins op? Which ones? maybe Kha in high elo and thats about it. AD assassins are in decent shape right now, except for Rengars crappy unfun rework which is getting reverted. They spike well with Duskblade, like plenty of champions do with Triforce, IE+Zeal item, Gunblade, etc. Item spikes are normal, have existed since forever, and its how League works, you get gold from creeps, towers and kills and spend it on items. Supports op compared to the past? Maybe tank supports a bit, shield supports are good too, but they're nothing crazy, and carry supports just aren't good lol. Supports are in a way better shape and much more fun than before, especially when they were almost literally walking wards. People actually want to play support now. Towers too squishy? Towers were buffed on 8.2, and the last change before that, another buff, on 7.23. Not to mention how amazing the introduction of first tower gold has been. Demolish isn't even the best rune in the tree, and not that popular. You are talking out of your ass. I personally like stopwatch, but I understand some players might have been sick of seeing so many people running it. But the stopwatch itself wasn't the only reason people took it, it was the free 350 gold and 10 movespeed from the boot rune, giving you a guaranteed amount of gold every game with the stopwatch, making it a very effective runeset. You can't take both anymore, stopwatch only sells for 20g now, and it's not like it was every some broken rune, it made you safer at level 6 tower dives and against champions with big spikes at 6, but it wasn't some sort of free escape. The big abuser of this rune was Ryze, because of his ult zhonyas combo he could do at level 6, but that interaction has been removed. Every single role, position, class, is viable right now, even bruisers, who I agree should get a proper keystone, see play top in GP, Camille, Fiora, Riven, Jax, your arguments are just the ramblings of a player who has no idea how the game works, you say getting Gold isnt hard, and yet it took you over 700 games to hit Gold 5 0 LP, and are currently Silver with a negative winrate. Any changes Riot decides to make, will have almost no impact on you.
Because we have to incessantly dance around the rank game until I've explained myself, I wasn't looking to soar to Gold last season. In fact, if you look deeply, you'll find I played Champions I had little to no experience on(literally learning them through Ranked Play) until near the end of the Season where I used Taric+Rakan to tear through the ranks. Ranked is simply a much more fun environment, because in norms, people try less frequently -- and I personally prefer a team who's looking to make an effort to do well when I play League. I made it halfway to G3, then tumbled down in tilt near the end of S7/beginning of S8 before Ranked's ladder reset. I'm not here to defend League ONLY at my elo, but across all elo; you simply prefer to resort to an ad hominem approach rather than debate with words. Junglers had their *even stronger* influential days in recent seasons; notably the Graves charade and CotC's release. That doesn't **change** the fact that their influence is too high now, and that they have fewer safe farming opportunities if they so desire. They've lost an option, only to be funneled into more aggressive play; and that aggressive play is often most rewarding if used to simply gank. Why? Because structures fall relatively easily, because shutting down Top Lane is not a difficult task right now, because due to the state of their Jungle - it's most effective to starve enemy laners in your time than shut down the opposing Jungler when their ability to generate a snowball elsewhere would more often have a *larger* impact. ADCs are coming online around 1-2 full items now, whereas in Seasons prior it was at the 3.5+ mark if they weren't fed. This is due to a mixture of item cost reduction, Supports being stronger, as well as the new runes. Supports may be perceived to be *more fun* due to contributing more damage, shields, and heal #s than before, but that comes with *significant impact across the board*. "Why, sir?" Because Supports don't only support the ADC, they support EVERYONE. They contribute more to every player now, and that did NOT come with nerfs across the board to mitigate their contributions. More fun or not, it's a strong enough change that has warped class' relative balance in the game. Of course AD Assassins are in decent shape. They have Duskblade. It's a massive itemspike that allows them to do their job of penetrating the increased amount of peel squishies can receive now; in truth, it doesn't even need the damage passive and goes against Riot's balance philosophy of No Invisible Power. The problem here is the spike is immense, the item offers much more than Youmuu's at the same price. In NO situation would I want a Youmuu's first, because AD Assassins come with a form of mobility and DB offers me much more at the same exact price; generating a snowball with DB is significantly easier. It was released with the promise we'd be given options between first major buys for AD Assassins, and it does not deliver on that promise/fantasy. Look, frankly, I've held the belief turrets are paper towers for some time now - following them being allowed to be damaged by Penetration. I've heard Scarra and Imaqtpie mention on several occasions how easily turrets fall. I recently, in Beyond The Rift, listened to Scarra say we could increase the attention on Top Lane and increase Rift Herald's relative value AS WELL AS alter the optimal macro strategy of S8 by strengthening turrets. I'm not **talking out my ass**, I'm speaking from my own analysis of the game as well as with research from Challenger players. Quit assuming you understand this game to a T simply because you've climbed enough to develop an ego you're unwilling to set aside. I want an improvement in League for everyone. These aren't all simply issues I dislike, it's something I've listened to high elo players for months discuss how they're unhealthy for LoL and believe PERSONALLY that they're detrimental to this game's future.
ak521 (NA)
: Automatic upvote just looking at the title. After reading this, I love you..{{sticker:sg-jinx}}
: Reading this shit is hilarious, literally just a bunch of silvers crying about game balance when meta means nothing until diamond if not higher, up until then everything is how you play and not what champions anyone picks. Balancing can make changes but the game has core elements that have existed since forever, which you need to learn before caring at all about what runes there are, how much damage champions do etc. Vision control Wave control Objective control Map awareness Map rotations Trading Farming Roams Back timings Tp usage Knowing when to engage or disengage Mechanical execution Im not saying the game is perfectly balanced, I was personally slightly unsatisfied with the last patch but most changes in any season have almost 0 effect on your gameplay. You dont enjoy the game because you cant win. You cant win because youre not good enough. Simple as that.
My ability or inability to win isn't a factor here. And on that note, losing doesn't inherently strip away satisfaction of gameplay on it's own (at least not for me, personally). You're foolish If you think I have to be Diamond+ to understand how balance has warped in this game; as well as to think that it has ZERO influence on low elo games. Climbing up into Gold is not hard, as they *are* enough bad players pre-Diamond that a good enough player can climb through consistent effort. However, it doesn't change the reality that the changes in the game can be FELT even at low elo. \ It doesn't change the reality that Laning Phase has been shortened, that Junglers come online faster and can camp/repeatedly gank with significantly lower drawbacks than previous Seasons, that Supports enable teammates to be **even stronger** than what they offered in Seasons prior (without nerfs to compensate for this newfound source of strength), that Turrets have been altered to be impacted by several more damage sources than Seasons prior, that *everything-creep* alongside lack of a current Keystone takes away what made Bruisers feel so good to begin with. **I'll say this again. My joy in League is not found in the wins or losses of my team**, but the personal satisfaction I derive from other factors. Primarily the Laning Phase, windows-of-power within Lane, knowing majority of Junglers won't come online within the time-frame a Lee Sin would, knowing my turret won't fall to 1-1.5 minion waves backed by a push of someone with Penetration, knowing a 2-item ADC won't near-effortlessly shred through everything they touch; LoL is a very different game today than it was in Early S5 and prior. Being altered to a be a more team-oriented game is favorable for LCS and high elo, but much less so for low elo. Because people don't know how to work together, or outright don't want to, and Solo Queue is indefinitely a chaotic mess down there. Even IF the Jungle change was to allow more solo-carrying through that role, that level of influence is not found in **every** lane/class now; and so that balance feels BAD. Or, rather, as you might say, **not enjoyable**. Notice I didn't say a game would be **unwinnable**, because winning - again - isn't the factor here. The meta is much less of my concern; what IS my concern is how much the influence of roles has warped, and how much the game pacing has changed (arguably detrimental to League in the long-term - - especially in the manner Riot is going about it.)
Rioter Comments
Skorch (NA)
: Believe it or not but I actually think Riots making an active effort to improve the game.
Jesus let us hope they are, dude/madam. Imaqtpie and Scarra both feel that League is not living up to how fun it was (as mentioned in the previous Beyond The Rift); and the issues in the game are painfully obvious. ):
Rioter Comments
MuseCub (NA)
: League is meant to be unbalanced
Truthfully, we're beyond "unbalanced". We've progressed to "poor design". Balance Team needs to step back and reevaluate what brought League of Legends as far as it is.
: You know what needs a rework?
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/0ZqZ5Lxm-at-this-point-i-genuinely-feel-the-balance-team-should-be-the-next-major-rework Amen.
: Solo carries doesn’t sound right to me.
To an extent, yes, it's bad. Because it strips away the fulfillment of being successful as a PLAYER. They've geared the game toward higher damage and shorter CDs, because it offers more "high moments" of play, or "feel good moments" (aside from shortening games). But those moments are short, and they leave the opposition feeling **awful**. And the influence around each lane varies, meaning various roles or champs offer more influence than others -- OBJECTIVELY. Rather than a specific champ may have a specific strength that assists them in having more influence within a certain window right now, the game has "evolved" to more of specific champions or items invalidate entire strategies or characters. And yes, even THAT could be fine, but the rate at which one's invalidated ranges from Champion Select to a First-Core-Item, and that **is not** okay. It's a door being closed on the player within the first 7 minutes of a game, if not the first MINUTE. It's **not fun**. I applaud them for attempting a new direction, but it's just not one that's being received well or being properly balanced *around*.
Rioter Comments
: I'll also probably try ahri.
**Ahri**'s a fun one. Someone commented here to mention **Lissandra** is a bit harder than Lux; that's true. She has a re-positioning skill, meaning you don't have to be AS cautious with where you step as her, but mastering Lux can be quite a good learning experience for newer players! Even Pokimane[Twitch Streamer] excels relatively well at Diamond 3 with Lux. (: **Taliyah**'s *really* fun, but hard to master (you'll die a lot and fail a lot), but feels **so** rewarding once you get the hang of her. **Morgana**, like Lux, is also an immobile mage with a skillshot (and good waveclear). **Brand** is known for having to position for his skills (skillshots and AoE if you want to feel like a typical mage found in MMOs), but his range is rather short. Another very rewarding champion to master as his damage is insane. And lastly, **Xerath** is known for being a long-range artillery mage; nothing but skillshots and a single AoE. Alongside that, his Passive rewards you by helping you stay in lane longer if you utilize it. He is also, however, **immobile**, so it's advised to watch out for Jungle ganks. :^) Happy Leaguing! {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Brutal DMG (EUNE)
: Need a new starting item to match manaless champions
Would arguably need to cost (500) full starting gold for it, because you wouldn't even need potions with that item -- and it'd be a wet dream for some champs.
Abibyama (EUW)
: We’re circlejerking junglers now
Rioter Comments
: Careful with that. More Runes also mean more things to balance, I would rather less Runes that are creative enough to offer enough diversity while also being balanced since there's less of them to balance. See, the 12 runes cap isn't even solid as currently they are testing one extra rune for Resolve in the middle tree and are working on one extra keystone. So we should only add new runes If neccesary, not create a 16-runes per tree quota.
Agreed, to an extent. My primary concerns are honestly more anti-snowball options to deal with the excess damage offered within the trees, and to just ensure we're catering more to playstyles than we are the tweaking of our champion's numbers. (I realize one would typically come with the other, but their primary focus appeared to be to ensure everyone had access to damage & snowballing)
: thats why duskbladme became like this... to compete with adc and ardent sh*t.
Fun fact: Duskblade's buff/tweak as well as Ardent's buff that broke it were in the same patch. :^) (6.22) So you're probably right on that!
: > [{quoted}](name=EinarUlfar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=txYtQ0UI,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-02-10T18:16:59.494+0000) > > I've been saying for literally 5+ months that Duskblade is overtuned, underpriced, and it heavily takes away from what we could GIVE to AD Assassin's actual KITS. Overtuned and underpriced like ADC items, right?
Dracon1x (NA)
: Can we change the way lp is earned and lost?
We've also shifted to a design in which it's harder to solo carry in the way it used to be. Shifting the way the system works would be wise IMO.
Rioter Comments
Foucz (EUNE)
: Duskblade is an abomination and needs to be nerfed.
I've been saying for literally 5+ months that Duskblade is overtuned, underpriced, and it heavily takes away from what we could GIVE to AD Assassin's actual KITS.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
seilkops (NA)
: The mind of the Riot balance team: DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE! WE NEED MORE DAMAGE!
what's that? you're not happy about us lowering CDs on several skills? It's fine, we'll just give everyone **MORE DAMAGE**.
Rioter Comments
Skorch (NA)
: Would the boards REALLY accept explanations?
Truthfully, at this point, any LOGICAL explanation (as we Boards members are also asked to typically display calm and rational approaches if we expect responses anyway) behind this game's direction would be utmost appreciated. It really sucks to see Rioters tending to other matters and for the members who absolutely love this game to feel unheard or hung out to dry despite having legitimate concerns for a game taking a direction that outright doesn't make sense to us. It's kind of like having your serious significant other of 3+ years break up with you, move down the road (as in remain within relatively close proximity), take out a restraining order(on the grounds this was even possible without reasonable proof it was needed), and refuse to offer an explanation as to why she did any of it. But to answer your question, the boards would be divisive over explanations - although the more rational understanding members have come out of the woodwork lately.
Rioter Comments
: Is this for real
It's a band-aid nerf to show they're looking at Zoe; someone from Riot confirmed on Reddit that we'll be getting Zoe nerfs in the next patch, and that they weren't able to get around to shipping them to live in this week's patch. [Rioter Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7vpnez/patch_83_notes/dtu8mfw/)
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: @Riot, can we please revert that Talon buff on PBE and fix the following?
Why don't they tone down the overbearing champions and address any major issues with the game health instead of tacking on more damage?
: I feel like you contradict yourself in the beginning with the towers a bit, you establish that towers are easy to take and therefore are punishing to leave alone(never mind that demolish scales with health and is only especially effective when used with champs that don't already have high impact on towers) but once u take a tower by that logic u can't rotate to take another because your tower will be taken just as easily in return which negates what you said about bouncing back. If you let the enemy take down 3 towers down to your inhibitor with a rift herald without sending someone to stop him then you deserve to lose that inhibitor. Your talk of "creep" is so vague that I don't even know where to begin I do agree that there are a few oppressive tanks top with some gnarly base damage on their abilities paired with cc that make it hard for bruisers to compete early no argument here, and bot lane is stacked just as a matter of fact no argument here either You completely contradict yourself here in the "The jungle and top lane" section because you outline how top is a lonely lane. how rift is barely an incentive to play around top. and how juicy bot is in comparison then say how top is camped. And how all a jungler really needs to do is take buffs and camp with no setback, but in reality if you are camping top you are putting yourself behind in farm and the enemy jungler is likely to take note of your presence top and snake your bot side farm. In agency you say that ad carries have multiple avenues of bypassing resistances, and maybe I am just mistaken by what you mean by this but the resistance to ad is armor and the only armor bypass that an ad carry has access to is last whisper items and legality and an ad who builds lethality is using up a spot they could be using for a far more useful crit item. You say that a jungler can assist in a "map-wide snowball" and still be useful later if that is true of both junglers don't both teams have an equal chance of receiving said assistance? And to address the top's agency in the game I feel like you are removing the agency from anything that isn't the subject matter like you will treat one top laner as inanimate food and the other jungler that is camping is someone at a buffet, when in reality the other jungler has just as much opportunity to counter gank or counter jungle or camp a different lane with little interference.
Minions are altered to push harder for the Winning Team, meaning taking a tower grants the ability to more easily maintain pressure in a lane right away. So no, I'm not contradicting myself in the first section. It's easy to open a window for rotations if you gain that lead, or a "snowball", if you will. Agreed on the deserving to lose an inhib; the point here is in Solo Queue, getting the manpower needed to stop this snowball isn't always feasible. My talk of creep isn't vague, especially if you've been following the Balance changes from Season 6 onward. To provide you with an example, in 6.22 we were given the Assassin overhaul. Atop this, we received the Duskblade rework - allowing AD Assassins to dish out the burst they had prior to their overhaul and arguably even more. However, we also received the Ardent buff this patch; creeping Sustain/Shields either to mitigate this change or to usher us into a preferred meta. If you carefully follow the changes made throughout the previous seasons, you'll frequently see where something is heavily buffed (beyond what's necessary) in response to a change. Thereby introducing an increase in power, and if it's not handled by a direct decrease in power and rather an alteration elsewhere - it introduces new problems and is often (when handled by Riot) done in the manner of increasing numbers or decreasing cooldowns. My sentiment that Top is a Lonely lane is a nod to a few things. One, Top is losing players due to the state of some Tanks and the inability for Bruisers to compete (as you kindly pointed out). Two, Top isn't getting attention from Riot -- or at least, wasn't, and Bruisers were outright neglected in Runes Reforged. I didn't mean it was literally a lane with few people. Given how the EXP has changed, Smite changed to offer health, and how damage/stats sit with S8 now - Junglers don't HAVE to worry about their farm (a few Junglers aside, like Shyvana). Majority can literally camp a lane over and over whilst farming nothing but any buffs on the map, because the snowball can become unbearable and their scaling (exp, stats, buffs, items all contribute) isn't harmed enough to remove them as a solid contributing factor in the midgame despite their neglect of JUNGLE FARMING. In Agency, regarding AD Carries, I'm referring to a few things. They have the option to buy Lethality to bypass armor. They have an item that allows them to shred Health% of (more or less) tanks. They've the option of Crit, on top of having a Crit-Amplifier, on top of having a Crit-synergizing-Range-increasing (RFC) item that allows them to FROM AFAR deal AoE Magic damage. Their options arguably wouldn't be a massive deal were it not for their item builds are very cheap and bring massive resistance-bypassing BURST (Think Vayne vs Tank, but apply it to most ADCs now). Yes, both teams do have an equal chance of NOT receiving said assistance as well - in the same manner both teams have a chance to get an AFK. Neither are chances we WANT to take, and overall it lessens OUR agency that these **Overly-Capable-Junglers** can consistently disrupt Laning Phase without having to face a serious drawback. You refer to the Agency of Top in such a way that implies I'm ignoring both sides have equal opportunity; that's deviating from MY point. My point is that we're in a game with potentially 9 random people, and that **TOO MUCH** is coming from sources outside of Lane without those sources having to suffer or take a detriment in any significant way anymore. TL;DR: Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but even where I was - you merely missed my point. I appreciate the lengthy response, however.
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Skorch (NA)
: The game is such a mess right now people dont even know the issue.
Need to dial back damage a tad, dial supports items back or give Support lower base stats/damage in exchange for the strength of their items now, increase Crit item costs, and overall slow the game back down a bit. The kits and stats and generally most COMPONENTS of League weren’t designed to be scaled up to faster paced play. And it’s really starting to show.
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EinarUlfar

Level 59 (NA)
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