Elohaven

Hope this is sarcastic comedy slapping at Riot's ignorance and the bigotry of Daniel.

Any thoughts on helping Vayne out? She's struggling a bit currently and those with mastery on her kit do not get rewarded enough or can dish out enough damage with her kit in the current meta. I believe the Patch 8.1 nerfs coupled with the indirect nerfs and Patch 8.11 to ADCs harmed her significantly. Vayne's playrate has been decreasing since due to her kit's high intensity not being rewarded enough for her optimal positions.

You didn't do the math - they do not burst harder. They're also weaker late-game and only stronger against tanks. Stormrazor is 200% crit in one attack with a cooldown. Old crit was 200% every attack. That's a big damage difference in itself. True damage was clocked down and AD. Prices shifted up as well. Why do you think you don't see Twitch or Jinx three-shotting people?

They're stronger against tanks but weaker against teams and squishies. That means their total DPS significantly dropped and they're more niche.

If these are actually punished incidents, I want sources. I'm not doubting you but I'm am shocked this is happening.

You forgot it allows 200% CD on an attack when Riot made most attacks only 150% CD now.

They said Stormrazor was designed for Jhin - explicitly. Riot didn't fuck up. They knew what they were doing and just wanted favoritism Jhin is not the issue - stormrazor is. Not only was designed specifically for Jhin but Riot "I WANT MUH ASSASSINS" has Stormrazor as a unhealthy item that allows deletes on everyone.

Attack Damage Carry

Most ADC mains don't even play Vayne. Vayne was never weak after Patch 8.1 since she doesn't purely rely on crit Shows how much you know

You don't outplay with Draven. In higher elos, you mostly play safer and only go in at optimal situations. Vayne and Kai'Sa can be in very sticky situations but come out alive due to just a much larger array of opportunities.

Stawp - Riot will take this seriously

When are you nerfing Miss Fortune

gotteem

Most AP champions have some form of hard CC which you don't recognize. Also, Syndra landing all her abilities on an opponent with a 6 orb ultimate does pop a squishy. You forget her ultimate is point-and-click - bad design. It's counter is the requirement of a full combo, not getting in range, or being at high HP before it hits because it can easily take away 70% of squishies health by itself. Sustain for mages is null because not only will you have abuse cases like Swain, Vladimir, Akali, etc. but they'll be healing for a significant chunk of their damage simply due to their high scaling. Reason maw exists because it's harder to reach AP champions as they're a majority ranged, have health in most of their items, Archangels, and much more CC than their AD counterparts. Also, AD champions DON'T JUST RELY ON AAs. ADCs SHOULD SHRED YOU. Zhonyas is meant to counter burst and is on a lower CD than GA for a reason for AP champions.

> What if you want sustain as a mage? Gunblade forces you to put ad in your build path. ROA gives just a tiny bit of health regen. Sustain on AP abilities will far exceed that of AD champions. That's why you won't get sustain. > What if you want ward clearage as an AP assassin? No Duskblade equivalent That's a fair statement but we all know duskblade is a toxic item. > What if you want a shield to protect you from burst? No hexdrinker/maw equivalent (don't try the zhonya's argument, then you're just a sitting duck when you get out of it unless they dove you) No. The whole reason Hexdrinker exists is because assassins and other champions can hardly hop on top of other mages. Imagine Xerath just sniping at you away with Zhonyas up for your ultimate. His safety, poke, and damage output put you at a huge disadvantage. Thus, hexdrinker exists for you to hop on top of mages and survive the lane. You really don't understand why assassins need it (they shouldn't be gutted) and AD champions have a huge disadvantage against AP. > What if you want %MR shred? You only get void, but ad champs get mortal or dominik's and black cleaver. Most AD champions only get either/or mortal/dom/black cleaver. They're very niché and have less penetration than Void Staff. You guys have 40% magic penetration on your item. At max, AD champions have 35% and Black Cleaver requires a build-up to shred. I completely disagree. That's just feeling entitled. > What if you want some tank killing power as a battle mage (a la true damage)? AD champs get IE and conquerer but you get ??? A majority agree Conqueror is a toxic rune. Mages doing true damage wouldn't be fair either - specifically because getting 15% of 1000 AP or 800 AP with the scaling of your abilities converted to true damage will be the most broken shit. You also have to itemize against AP and AD while also worrying about Liandries shredding you as a tank.

Issue is that Hashinshin was representing a rather biased viewpoint that people didn't understand. Top lane did need to be buffed but it's still in a sad state and brought down the rest of the game to its state where most champions are now unviable in comparison. They didn't need Conqueror which goes against design principles. They needed Fervor.

{{sticker:sg-janna}}

> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fwpGWMoN,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-07-15T19:59:01.189+0000) > > IE rework was good. Adc's did too much damage late game. Zeal nerf was too much. And base changes were too much. You do realize ADCs do more damage late-game with 3 items. They just scale a lot less faster.

You missed my point. Better suggestions to the game state for toplaners was made over Hashinshin's rant. The issue with Hashinshin is that he has dropped in skill mainly because he simply wants to split-push and burst everyone in a solo-lane without interaction. Not only did Riot respond to his Jax request to indicate they gave in to his rant, they designed Conqueror exactly to his playstyle: - An uninteractive splitpushing rune allowing you to immediately stomp anyone who comes into lane Everyone knows toplane was in a shit state - but it still is. Just slightly better. Most of its roster is still nonexistent and tanks are obsolete unlike pre-season. That section of the post is to signal the start of Riot's slow pitfall into our current state. Notice how Conqueror goes against current design philosophies and old. People recommended better alternatives and said true damage from Conqueror is unhealthy from the game. It goes against good design and one of the key aspects the old design team had. Yet, these posts were seen as hate for toplane or Riot design team hate when it simply was that Conqueror was not a healthy alternative. A reiteration of Fervor, like they did with Warlords and FFW, would of been best. People suggested and got ignored. I don't know if you got my point but there it is. There were better ways to address toplane and that's just one example. Riot should of taken time and re-evaluated everything before just immediately trying to satisfy and shift the meta so fast.

What's your point? > Then again, she really doesn't need changes. It's more so that you should nerf some early game things (Electrocute, Conqueror), buff some base resistances, and give people survivability.

> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kfKyw4AG,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-15T16:55:49.812+0000) > > Streamers often only proved that he was a excellent AD assassin with lethality, and that much was kinda already known ever since the lethality first appeared, particularly with duskblade damage proc. > > I´ve played him for it and while he was really good at it........that was all of it. > > Its stuff like stormrazor, crit nerfs and the enhancer nerfs that has made things better for him. > > Before he´d attempt to run up/E in with duskblade and whatever lethality he had, proc it, go invis, Q again then ulti if target survived, not really all that different from say how talon can come running with ghostblade, pop ulti then melee Q for massive damage. > > But it wasnt all that bad really. > > > Now tho? He runs in with ghostblade-duskblade+stormrazor+static shiv+triforce and whatever and deals twice or thrice the damage per Q that he used to with the same combo. ( Not necessarily this build order but the items are about right) > > > Tell me, is there a difference between dealing X damage and dealing 2X or 3X damage? In my mind there is no doubt that there is and its what´s breaking wukong along with other more indirect changes like the mentioned support nerfs and crit nerfs and tanks falling out. That doesn't defeat my point. My point is that he was always this strong for quite some time. When stormrazor was out, he wasn't found to be so OP and he got overcompensated in the duskblade changes. However, he was always this strong. Yes, a lot is contributing to why he is strong but it doesnt mean he was lacking in any other area. Riot was buffing assassins all over the place and just looking at poster boys like Zed and Talon without paying mind to outliers like Wu. When they introduced stormrazor, I don't know what Riot was expecting. His kit was always pretty overbloated. It's mostly point-and-click. The player barely has to do any work. It's just numbers impacting him. Right now, the problem is stormrazor's synergy with lethality which is bad.

Omegalul - Twitch? In 2k18?

> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kfKyw4AG,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-07-15T14:22:45.330+0000) > > He was garbage and his passive is still crap. > > > But item synergy, resistance nerfs and early game buffs makes for a happy monkey. > > Particularly items, he uses everything meant for AD assassins and does their job better than them ontop of being a contender for best user for items like trinity force and stormrazor. > > Invisible monkey with only AD damage runs at you stacked with lethality and a guarenteed crit+ auto attack loaded with damage boosters? Is there really any wonder why his Q suddenly crits every time on use for like 1-2 k damage per use later on? > > Just stack stuff like Ghostblade, duskblade, stormrazor-static shiv-triforce and skip boots for whatever you want last, could be armor pen or could be lifesteal or something. > > End result is either way that his E-Q-W-Q-R-W-Q kills any non tank with very, very little counterplay possible. Wrong. Actually, streamers and recent Riot responses prove otherwise. Wukong was never actually weak. It's just that he didn't have enough of a playrate to allow enough players to find out how strong he truly was. He was always overcompensated with the duskblade changes. Nobody realized this until now because Riot kept updating the game so fast there were a lot more things shadowing him.

You should have listened to the community in Pre-Season rather than Hashinshin. That's literally all there is. All these issues stem from ignored complaints: - Toxic events like Brand support [Stated by content creators] - Conqueror abuse - Tanks being removed in SoloQ due to Conqueror - Ignite being a mandated summoner spell in every lane - Too much damage due to the removal of resistances from old runes, decreased base stats, and an increase in damage repeatedly [Stated by pro-players] - Runes dealing too much damage (Electrocute vs Thunderlords) - Baron is a joke [Stated by pro-players] - Towers are useless [Stated by pro-players] You wonder why LCS is losing viewership. Well, that's because nobody understands what's amazing or not anymore because you keep changing everything. Pro-players will always just play safe instead of going for flashy plays because now one mistake means the game due to how hard snowball is due to damage. Now compare all these complaints to: - RIGHT THROUGH THE FUCKING COUNTERSTRIKE Which initiated Jax buffs, Conqueror, Riot Tryndamere coming in, and all these changes that failed. Conqueror hasn't even got toplaners into a better state. It made a few monstrosities and the rest can't use it properly. In addition, everyone else who can't really abuse runes due to lack of Fervor get thrown out toplane. You were starting off great. Runes Reforged fixed the horrid rune system from before in terms of the ranked barrier but it didn't keep its benefits of sustainability. You instead used it as an excuse to introduce more snowball and damage. Next, you kept moving forward with changes without addressing past issues. Now League is in this pathetic state. The only thing to really do now is take it slow, re-evaluate, and get community feedback on what's needed.