Zed is weak in Gold... And I never said anything about him LOL. Let me correct myself damage creep is really bad.

You say this but it's like telling yourself to go on the Internet to expect mostly supportive people. It won't happen. People, in general, are dicks. While this message is good in material, it amounts to nothing because at the end of the day it's not an action - just words that won't be executed.

Thanks for the correction - yes

Game is still garbage for most melee champions. It's only fun for assassins who use electrocute/dark harvest.

> Most carries get like half their damage out of their AP ratios. {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}

> as had far more limited animation cancels removed from her kit for no discernible reason despite not being a champion who's ever been unreasonably strong. At one point she could cancel her E's animation into W, which only worked if she executed it fast enough and also had something to W onto. Has also had W made uncancellable, so she's forced to sit through her long animations When you used never, I had to laugh since upon release she had one of the greatest harasses and ultimates in the game. Her E was murderous and she could easily 1v5.

Yes, more summoner spell diversity instead of the braindead ignite pick. Who would've guessed that would occur from a healthy nerf

She cannot permastun you.

Keep PD the same as it is right now in the game. It's good for duelists and melee champions but just having it be an AD Maw feels bad.

1. Conqueror isn't why people do so much damage. It's already proven mathematically and already invalidates your post. 2. Yi and Fiora are weak right now. Vayne is a solid design - hence she had champions based off her and minimal kit changes since her genesis. 3. Garen ult does 50% of your HP as true damage to the villain - killing you instantly at 50% with just a click. That's some burst that Vayne, Yi, and Fiora doesn't even do. In addition, Garen is hypertank with CC and armorshred with a silence packing a movement speed steroid to easily allow his ultimate. Can't take this post seriously when it offers no alternatives, no valid reasons, and no math. This champions are tank shredders for a reason and you're asking to nullify their role. You want less damage - then you're asking for a tank meta and you're nerfing the only champions who can fair well against them. Most ADCs cannot shred tanks with critical strike (EG Caitlyn sucks against tanks unless far ahead) and gets destroyed by Olaf. This is why the Gameplay section is never taken seriously.

If you check the damage, mages and assassins deal more damage to you than ADCs on average.

She was also the OG late-game hypercarry and has been a staple marksmen throughout League history. Hence she's the only champion with so much True Damage in her kit which Riot had removed from other champions since her genesis and other mechanics such as dodge chance. All marksmen are meant to drain tanks but Vayne is meant to be a multi-purpose, hypercarrying killing machine late-game like Twitch and Jinx except she has more game agency and no teamfight potential.

Vayne doesn't need a rework. There's a reason they based Kai'Sa off her. She's a fine champion. She's not the reason tanks are unviable. If she were, you could just ban her and you'd be fine. She doesn't have that much of an impact - just literally designed to hardcounter tanks. This is more of you complaining about a champion you lack the skill to beat. You say 0 effort but clearly never played Vayne. This is like those posts saying nerf Zed because he lacks skill. He's only annoying but there are pretty clear struggles he face. And her kit already allows her to pick off isolated enemies. The issue with League is damage and a lot of frontloaded burst for free early on. You want to rework a champion you know nothing about and her community didn't ask for. It's like Riot taking away all the favorite aspects of your main. The issue with tanks is the damage in the game right now and how everyone else can snowball except them. They cannot do their job due to everyone else getting more stats and damage than they can resist. So, moreso, the tanks should get health back, more MR, and better armor items with passives. Can't take this post seriously either when tanks are actually really useful in teamfights still. It's actually more of their scaling comparatively to enemies. I agree scaling auras would be a good idea. You just don't realize how OP it would be for all these changes to go through and how absurd nerfing everything is. You don't go into detail on what to nerf. (BTW, Riot is nerfing ignite and runes). And you don't even give substantial reason or explanation on how these nerfs will change the game.

Riot Review of the Year It's a quote they place if you play yasuo people flame & ban yas

> Edit: To all of you who keep saying vayne isn't at 54% I said her WR went UP TO 54%. At this point, OP, your post has no credit anymore. The basis of your claim is gone and you're just spouting a complaint without any critical evidence. This is just an echochamber

> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mUzprNYq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-10T14:26:06.240+0000) > > What comparison is there? > Sylas is currently at large, gathering followers in the outskirts of Demacia. Just because he WAS in prison for 15 years doesn't mean he's got to continue to look like a hobo once he escapes. He's got to look charismatic to spark his rebellion and gain followers. He's allowed to shave, get a haircut, and get some new pants in his travels. It makes sense that he kept all of his shackles too, to use them as a costume of sorts to show people what they do to mages in Demacia, and how they can break free of the tyranny. I can understand and back his current appearance, because it makes sense once you remember he's no longer stuck in prison. > > Kai'Sa, conversely, was a 10 year old when she was thrown to the hellscape caverns below Shurima, that are infested with Void creatures. Even if she's currently not in those caves, there are still lifelong effects from her 10+ years surviving that would be present even if she cleaned up. First and foremost, she should have short hair or dreadlocks from not having the luxury of time and personal hygiene. Second, she should be deranged and mentally unstable from being alone with a symbiotic suit for a decade, and on the verge of multiple personality disorder. She should also be heavily scarred and ragged looking, because that kind of constant stress on the body, of always being hunted, would have taken it's toll on her looks long ago. She should also be slightly malnourished looking, and her skin should be sickeningly pale from not ever having seen the sun. So even cleaned up, she should have scars, pasty skin, mental instability, short hair/dreads, and bags under her eyes. There is no explaining away why she looks like a supermodel after the hellish life she's led underground. She shouldn't be thin, pale, or malnourished. Her suit makes her eat. Everything else about Kai'sa - yes

Thanks

I don't mind tbh because the Firecracker timeline isn't really of warriors but moreso of entertainment and festivity. So Sej not being toned and as muscularly massive in this timeline makes sense

Any thoughts on ignite and I have also seen Brand been talked about but never saw anything from Riot in a while. Plans to move him to midlane or address the low-elo and high-elo dynamic of Brand

Tristana's E is a point-and-click and her auto can be casted as she places her E in that second. It's not hard to land it. She's also meant to lose to Vayne 1v1 because Vayne's win condition is during her ult. She's supposed to lose that fight unless she's ahead of Vayne.

To excel*. But yeah. She struggles greatly against other duelists like Fiora and Yasuo and Riven where the fights are very conditional between the participating parties.

Her range only mattering in lane is inaccurate. A look at LCS shows this. Vayne has to wait for enemy CC and abilities to be on CD before engaging. It's very dicey for her. Lucian can ult in teamfights. Sivir has her Q and W and E. Only Kalista has more of an issue in teamfights than Vayne. Vayne moreso picks you off if you misposition. Her range matters constantly as a Caitlyn can kill her in 3 fights in a teamfight or Draven can burst her if she does not get the element of surprise. This buff is exactly aimed at making Vayne more viable in teamfights. She's not good at them compared to most ADCs.

- Riot literally states Vayne's kit is a duelist designed to win fights 1v1 against ADCs. - Proceeds to complain about a champion winning in their intended design ????

I said in raw DPS - meaning just autos. Tristana does beat Vayne. Vayne is reliant on her ultimate to beat Tristana while Tristana is only reliant on her E meaning there's more opportunities in the game where Tristana does beat Vayne - especially with the range advantage as the first hit from an ADC to another usually determines the fight. And Vayne is supposed to beat Tristana when she has her ult. That's the point of her kit. You need to be scared of her as that's her preferred situation and win condition. As Tristana, your goal is to nullify her ult reset or make the timer run out so you can burst Vayne afterwards. And Tristana's E is effective when a person is invisible/untargetable as long as it's cast prior.

Clearly stated I wasn't talking about the stat called range. I accounted abilities. But willful ignorance is good for you if you want to not read.

Vayne still has the shortest range in account of abilities which is what is mainly addressed. It'll be ignorant to account for only range when abilities aren't factored in. This is why most of the ADC pool can zone Vayne early on and thus she has a "weak" early. If this was not the case, then Vayne should be winning matchups early if she's equal at least and not have a weak early.

Vayne facing a pool of assassins or mages is zoning. She has to wait until CC is wasted or blown to go in or she gets destroyed by one ability often. The basis of Vayne is timing and exploitation of player mistakes, not pure strength and DPS. Anytime Vayne has been stronger in raw DPS, she's been nerfed. MF, Jinx, Kai'Sa, Twitch, Tristana, Draven, Caitlyn beat Vayne in purely autos. Vayne risks more agains teams which is why she doesn't see pro play often. It's risky to go in constantly if you aren't aware of what can hit you once you go in as she's an all-in champion.

> [{quoted}](name=25IQbalanceteam,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rKixEgdv,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-09T02:30:46.819+0000) > > "Vayne has short range" is a false statement. > The original statement that was twisted with the years by lowlifes is that Vayne has no poke. > She trades poke for having superior no counterplay DPS and in combat mobility and invisibility, which is the most powerful thing in a marksman fight(who gets to land the first BBC crit) "Vayne has short range is a false statement" Weren't talking about AA range. In that case, Kalista is the shortest but when people say Vayne has the lowest range they mean by abilities+AA range. It'd be really ignorant just to discuss range without the basis of abilities and items. My argument still stands.

This is why Gameplay isn't taken seriously. Biased posts with no evidence, exaggerated claims, and "X champ is too OP, here's my opinion and biased test case. Wow - statistically I'm correct you see from 1 thing that benefits my POV." That's not how an argument works or is designed. Permastealth at level 6 isn't possible. Remember her tumble is at level 1 at level 6 since you max W. If your tumble is being maxed instead, then she loses DPS and usefulness midgame for a while which is bad. This update wouldn't make Vayne max Q first still since BORK+Guinsoos is optimal with her W max and the issue with crit is that it takes too long to scale for her to be relevant especially compared to other champions. During her R, Vayne is meant to be a very threatening duelist who is difficult to deal with. It's like saying Fiora shouldn't be a threat at level 3 or 6 as well. 2 second tumble at level 6 due to her ult - that's not permanent stealth. In this burst meta, this gives her more time to reposition and duel early on which is what's meant for Vayne at level 6. She's an all-in champion. See, all this post does is complain. It offers no constructive alternative and your evidence is too restricted in cases. While, my previous posts on the Boards do disagree with this buff it's not because of reasons such as "permanent stealth at level 6". You say Vayne can go rambo-style at level 6 at this buff but can she really? PBE isn't a viable testing environment with skewed skill matchups between players. Can she rambo against Brand+MF? Can she rambo against Cait+Morgana? Can she rambo against Draven+Alistar? Can she rambo against Sivir+Thresh? All once she hits level 6? These are just a few cases. The answer is no. There is literally no way possible Vayne will be able to beat most of her matchups at level 6 instantly when on average she's behind on farm or they have more kill potential than her or jungle pressure is there. TL;DR - Your argument is weak and way too biased to be taken for serious discussion. It exaggerates and fabricates Vayne's abilities into a false narrative that benefits your bias. Despite adding more valid pieces to construct your argument, you are using opinionated views to promote your OP which is weak in itself. When you can show me Vayne, in a regular Summoners Rift game, being in stealth for at least 3 seconds straight I'll take this argument slightly seriously. But 8 to 12? At level 6? She can't even do that late-game when her tumble CD is the lowest.

No - it's not 4 seconds top. At 1.75+ AS, tumble actually starts cutting off her DPS and it gets hard to manage her DPS at 2.0AS+. It's not like you won't focus her, right? Don't tell me you don't - then you deserve to be shredded in 4 seconds because at 2.5AS she's late-game. And Vayne is a late-game champion doing late-game things. And 3 procs doesn't melt a tank either. 14% MAX HP True damage. My point still stands, math proves you wrong.

But Vayne can't melt a tank in 3 hits. Math proves this wrong immediately. We also live in a burst meta where Vayne dealing this much damage is harder to pull off since people will be focusing her once she hits 3 items.

Lucian's Q and R have a longer range. MF ult,Q, and E have a longer range. Sivir W and Q have a longer range. Jinx Q,W,E,R has a longer range. Ezreal Q, W, R, E has a longer range. Ashe has a longer range. Jhin has a longer range. Actually, he's correct - their abilities do have longer ranges than Vayne. Vayne's only asset is her Q and autos. Her E is within the confines of her range.

This post is a pretty bad exaggeration. Vayne's early is still weak and she is meant to be a monster at 3 items - which is the intended design of the champion. This video is selected instances of positive benefits of the buff for Vayne without showcasing its practicality.

Vayne doesn't build ER. Why don't people learn what cost efficiency is?

QSS doesnt stop displacement

You state this "huge absurdity of max hp damage" but you never provide evidence of that. I only see it on champs and if so - only a few. Out of those few, very little have "a lot" of max %HP damage. You don't see it on runes. You're exaggerating it out.

There's not a huge load of max HP damage. And there isn't that much magic pen either. Just a lot of damage that exceeds it.

To be fair, toplaners and ADCs had every right to complain because S7 top was useless and S8 ADCs were garbage. But I agree, everyone needs to be nerfed. It'd be best to hit everyone in a big patch.