Naffy (NA)
: The Average Game Of A Diamond Player
I hate diamond so much. Fortunately for you, Thresh didn't just sit in base spamming wards and you actually got to make a come back. It's often not the case. The amount of afks/passive inters I've been getting over the years has been . . . well, surprising.
Smyrage (EUNE)
: It only works if you go full Berserker and even then it works because Olaf stunning the entire team.
> [{quoted}](name=Smyrage,realm=EUNE,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=UM2jPOUi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-01T13:35:23.381+0000) > > It only works if you go full Berserker and even then it works because Olaf stunning the entire team. Whose also a broken pos lol.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f67mqGAP,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-11-30T20:47:11.402+0000) > > Throw another rock. Oddly enough...I underestimate {{champion:163}} damage...she really hurts. I think it's because her kit revolved around field manipulation so I see her as more of a..."Mage built to control the field/flow more then damage directly". Since mages of that style in most fantasy games don't do a lot of damage but, they aid your team by messing up the area for the enemy (cutting off paths...shoving enemies in certain directions). Sooo my old RPG senses throw me off with her EVERY TIME XD
> [{quoted}](name=Sky Cardis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f67mqGAP,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2019-11-30T22:43:50.528+0000) > > Oddly enough...I underestimate {{champion:163}} damage...she really hurts. > I think it's because her kit revolved around field manipulation so I see her as more of a..."Mage built to control the field/flow more then damage directly". Since mages of that style in most fantasy games don't do a lot of damage but, they aid your team by messing up the area for the enemy (cutting off paths...shoving enemies in certain directions). > Sooo my old RPG senses throw me off with her EVERY TIME XD Release Taliyah was a lil broken.
Rock MD (NA)
: I think this video that was posted on League reddit does a good job explaining what he means by unliked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2q-DvU1t5I It's like Rammus. Fun champion to meme, he's a champion that doesn't frustrate or annoy people the same way Yasuo does, he just seems like an all-around good guy and when you see a player you think, "that dude is cool." But when it actually comes to picking the champions, they fall by the wayside due to their very unorthodox, peculiar playstyles, and inability to just grab attention the same way a champion like Thresh does. It's not that a lot of people hate Ivern, it's that people just aren't as passionate for him.
> [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f67mqGAP,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-11-30T20:11:08.278+0000) > > I think this video that was posted on League reddit does a good job explaining what he means by unliked. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2q-DvU1t5I > > It's like Rammus. Fun champion to meme, he's a champion that doesn't frustrate or annoy people the same way Yasuo does, he just seems like an all-around good guy and when you see a player you think, "that dude is cool." > > But when it actually comes to picking the champions, they fall by the wayside due to their very unorthodox, peculiar playstyles, and inability to just grab attention the same way a champion like Thresh does. > > It's not that a lot of people hate Ivern, it's that people just aren't as passionate for him. Throw another rock.
Pyrosan (NA)
: What're my odds of skipping to Platinum 2?
: hashinshin: mages are most broken class and require no skill to play
He opened into Fizz with Q and went melee vs him and wondered why he died. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} Then blamed jungle diff.
Ooduwa (NA)
: After completing my first season, I feel League's Matchmaking System is Rigged
It's not rigged. You just haven't adapted gold 4. If you keep playing like a silver 1/2 player and expect to climb out, you won't get very far. One of the many mistakes support players make is that they're not very proactive. By the looks of things, that's probably the case with you too. Top of that, it's preseason and virtually nobody cares.
Rioter Comments
Xavanic (NA)
: Can we get a champ like deathwing or jormungandr?
I've personally wanted a giant serpent as a jungle champ for a long time now.
: There are alot of stupid unmanageably overpowered things in this itteration. Olaf is one. Singed is another. Zed is another. Kindred is probably the biggest problem due to how easy it is to get a Shadow bonus, how flexible she is with items(You can go AD or AP), and how easy it is to rank her up. Its at a point where i just target 2/4 or 4/4 Shadow, and build around Kindred, EVERY game i play. Whether i get AD items or AP items shes still going to 1shot something every 1second and keep a permanent shadow buff.
> [{quoted}](name=PhearBunny,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=YHtW2ts6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-11-18T15:24:09.553+0000) > > There are alot of stupid unmanageably overpowered things in this itteration. > Olaf is one. > Singed is another. > Zed is another. > Kindred is probably the biggest problem due to how easy it is to get a Shadow bonus, how flexible she is with items(You can go AD or AP), and how easy it is to rank her up. > Its at a point where i just target 2/4 or 4/4 Shadow, and build around Kindred, EVERY game i play. Whether i get AD items or AP items shes still going to 1shot something every 1second and keep a permanent shadow buff. What rank in tft? This sounds fun af.
: What the hell is up with Mods lately?
Why is it okay to reference Teemo as Satan and make a skin portraying that. But. It's not okay to post a random edited statue of bass Jesus in the form of Yasuo?
: because phanteon has a fucking travel time. He jumps towards you and when he lands, you are stunned. Fiddle's Q doesn't have that......... you press it and target is hard CCed
Fiddlestick's fear does actually have a travel time. You can dodge it and put it on cd with Yi and Fizz. The only way you can do that is with travel times. The travel time begins when Fiddle does his weird flimsy hand motion. It's just a REALLY FAST travel time.
: That's....not hotfix worthy. 53% 10% isn't so massively overbearing that it justifies a hotfix.
It's actually 56% wr with 3% playrate mid and 54% wr top with 17% playrate. It's pre hotfix worthy tbh. But then, Ashhe is pre busted too right now.
: If we're talking medieval plate armor, it's actually usually not flat in the chest and in fact usually bulges out quite a bit. As for armor in general in real life, it's not like shaped armor has never existed either. The Greeks and Romans wore armor shaped to look like a muscly man-chest, among other more austere armors. None of that matters anyway though because we're talking about a fantasy game. And even forgetting all that, here her armor looks like it's just flat on her ribs. I honestly don't buy that all her other skins are just her but older, either. Even SG and Battle Academia are, well... more *chesty* than this.
I'm referring to flat chested. Show me legitimate medieval armor with boob plates. They don't really exist because that'd aid in chest penetration and also mess with arm movements. Also, you can choose to "not buy into it" but uh . . . I distinctly remember Elementalist Lux being the basis on that she has matured and become a queen and harnessing her maximum potential. Also, uh . . . are you sure you truly understand boob dynamics? Because with the same wrapping that Lux has in the picture a C cup can very easily be a flat chest. https://puu.sh/EtN6d/5499f2cdf8.png https://puu.sh/EtN6I/e13ce5220f.png For reference.
: LoR Lux... doesn't quite look right.
Actual armor is flat. So, the chest piece is realistically sound. She has boobies in spell thief + Elemental largely because she's older. Elemental Lux is at her prime in her late 20s-early 30s. All in all, I don't see anything wrong with it.
: tft when are shapeshifter dragons getting nerfed
Rioter Comments
: You know if you actually tried harder and got better you'd be playing in a higher norm mmr bracket and have competitive games.
Kind of don't know why this is downvoted when it's 100% true lol. If you actually stop going ap lethality caitlyn in norms and play to win. You will climb out of the "cesspit" mmr of norms and start playing with more serious and higher ranking players. Matches are also pretty consistent and evenly matched because everyone plays more competitively. On my norms only account I can't say I've had hilarious disparity between teams, or a troll ever since I hit level 30. And even my pre 30 games were often times more competitive than my ranked diamond games. So . . .
: > [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MHOFdZNO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-10-05T23:31:30.388+0000) > > Because it wouldn’t be fun for high Elo players to wait hours to get a game if it did correlate So lower elo players have to get stomped by high elo players so the high elo players don't have long wait times? What nonsense. Riot is hurting their own game by making it a bad experience for players who haven't been playing as long.
You know if you actually tried harder and got better you'd be playing in a higher norm mmr bracket and have competitive games.
: We pitched this back during Kindred's development. I still love the idea and wish we could do this, and I still hold a candle of hope that one day Kindred'll be so in the meta that we'd make a series: gazelle/gator, dolphin/kraken, sparrow/boa. What combos do you folks think would work for which regions?
> [{quoted}](name=FauxSchizzle,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Pld0E6vn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-03T20:57:41.972+0000) > > We pitched this back during Kindred's development. I still love the idea and wish we could do this, and I still hold a candle of hope that one day Kindred'll be so in the meta that we'd make a series: gazelle/gator, dolphin/kraken, sparrow/boa. > > What combos do you folks think would work for which regions? Are you guys implying she doesnt get skins just because shes not meta? That's kind of fucked up.
: thats the kind of thing that happen 1 in 50 games and only 1 time, i didnt even notice i did this, i was randomly distracted for no reason at all
> [{quoted}](name=RIGGED AS FK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dE3Eg9sl,comment-id=000600010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-01T21:31:19.002+0000) > > thats the kind of thing that happen 1 in 50 games and only 1 time, i didnt even notice i did this, i was randomly distracted for no reason at all So, what about when you leave entire waves crashing into your turret while you aimlessly walk around in river doing nothing at all? This follows with casually dying 1v2 bot lane allowing them to wreck your bot lane while enemy mid pushes in your turret? That darn rigged match making!
: surely not this random raptor i forgot lost me the game
> [{quoted}](name=RIGGED AS FK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dE3Eg9sl,comment-id=0006000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-01T16:11:58.310+0000) > > surely not this random raptor i forgot lost me the game That's extra EXP youre no longer getting. Thats camp scaling youre no longer receiving. Item and level spikes being delayed causing less overall strength and usefulness from you. That adds up very fast and indirectly does in fact cause you to lose games. Go ahead and do that stuff in my mmr range and see how fast you become useless lol.
: i have adhd
> [{quoted}](name=RIGGED AS FK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dE3Eg9sl,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2019-10-01T15:38:08.331+0000) > > i have adhd That's clearly match making's fault though, yeah?
: Does rank in LAN mean anything?
There's a lot of pretty good players in the diamond 2-challenger range there honestly. Personally, I think what holds the server back is that it's regarded as a "meme" so much that a lot of NA players have effectively drowned out the high elo there by duo smurfing. When you dip into the challenger range over there . . . a lot of the players are honestly just NA smurfs. But, if the LAN player was d2, I think he could definitely hit diamond NA for sure. Unrelated, but I personally feel LAN's vision game is significantly superior to NAs, but their attitudes and jungle respect are even worse than NAS, and that's really hard to beat since we're one of the worst servers in the jungle respect category.
: FIX THIS GARBAGE RIGGED MATCHMAKING
You decided to put yourself out there, but blame it on match making. I'm just going to be completely honest with you. Not in a mean way, or anything like that. But. You're not as good as you might think you are. You're like . . . honestly a silver 1 player. It could be argued that you're a gold 4 player, but it's hard to determine that when you're 50 games negative in the hole. winrate says 49% for sure. But, in order to have a net positive you'd basically have to go 3 wins 1 loss for the entire rest of the season JUST to break even and be around gold 2ish? Also, I'm just going to put this out here and let everyone decide for themselves what to think of it when you say this, "It's obvious riot rig the matchmaker so it try to force streaks : hey, let's make this player feel good about himself so he keep playing to climb and purchasing skins since he have fun, give him a win streak!" https://streamable.com/qc79d when you counter jungle yourself and blame match making. -thinkin...-
: oh boo hoo the multi-billion dollar company receives some criticism on their own forum kept up for the sole purpose of discussing the game. won't anyone think of the corporations?!
> [{quoted}](name=warmcorntortilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Tc2fbEc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-30T16:56:01.181+0000) > > oh boo hoo the multi-billion dollar company receives some criticism on their own forum kept up for the sole purpose of discussing the game. won't anyone think of the corporations?! forum that's still in Beta**
: > [{quoted}](name=ShyImagoghnar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RGEN8x5Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-29T01:20:21.636+0000) > > the fact that MMR isn't affected by dodges has not technically been proven by a riot statement or someone poking around the code, but if it looks like a duck... ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ I can't dig it up because it was years ago, but I recall Riot has specifically said that dodging does not affect your MMR, just your LP.
> [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RGEN8x5Y,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-29T05:22:41.408+0000) > > I can't dig it up because it was years ago, but I recall Riot has specifically said that dodging does not affect your MMR, just your LP. It does not affect mmr. Exclusively LP. Which is why it is significantly better to always dodge if the game feels coinflippy/bad. It's why pro coaches encourage dodging if youre not feeling comfortable. You really lose nothing but LP. And, if LP is what you are worried about. You will statistically climb faster dodging 3 games and winning two games, than if you were to win 3 games and lose 1. The reason being is because that one loss takes mmr from you whereas the dodging does not, and thus you will have higher lp gains and thus even potentially skip divisions. So, long term. There is no real downside to dodging other than the fact, from a visual perspective you are "taking longer to hit a tier." When in reality, you're actually getting there faster because your mmr climbs faster, and you only lose 10 lp instead of 15+ + mmr as well.
: I don't think you understand that it's actually intentional that enemy players don't hear their music. It's all in Jhin's head. It's a design choice for the character because he's insane. The same reason that when he shoots his victims, rose petals burst out of them instead of blood. He's performing 'art'. Everything he does is choreographed and 'perfect' in his mind. That's why even when he speaks, you hear melodic undertones. Gameplay doesn't matter here, and actually takes away from the character. If you want the theme during his ultimate, play the character.
> [{quoted}](name=Nanuk Pihoqahiak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U0yAfIgA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-26T02:39:13.913+0000) > > I don't think you understand that it's actually intentional that enemy players don't hear their music. It's all in Jhin's head. It's a design choice for the character because he's insane. The same reason that when he shoots his victims, rose petals burst out of them instead of blood. He's performing 'art'. Everything he does is choreographed and 'perfect' in his mind. That's why even when he speaks, you hear melodic undertones. > > Gameplay doesn't matter here, and actually takes away from the character. If you want the theme during his ultimate, play the character. I'm not really sure why we go that route, but at the same time, when you step on a Jhin trap you hear musical back grounds ((extremely subtle and mixed with his voice)) touched into him whispering into your ear.
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: But macro play actually has more to do with teammates cooperating (lol random people) than it has with individual champion strengths. So you remember a Season or two ago when macro play was more important than micro play or lanes and people still complained how this is BS and better team wins? Now that Riot made changes to the gold to involve more solo performance and not be shared among the teammates more that in needs to, it's still a problem as solo carries can win more than their own lanes and make the game harder to come back to for the losing team? Unfortunately, there's no "golden ratio" here. There can't be the perfect amount of solo play that you're happy with and still be rewarded with equally good amount of team play because these expectations encroach on each other.
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cjKAeJHO,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2019-09-24T20:37:16.849+0000) > > But macro play actually has more to do with teammates cooperating (lol random people) than it has with individual champion strengths. So you remember a Season or two ago when macro play was more important than micro play or lanes and people still complained how this is BS and better team wins? > > Now that Riot made changes to the gold to involve more solo performance and not be shared among the teammates more that in needs to, it's still a problem as solo carries can win more than their own lanes and make the game harder to come back to for the losing team? > > Unfortunately, there's no "golden ratio" here. > There can't be the perfect amount of solo play that you're happy with and still be rewarded with equally good amount of team play because these expectations encroach on each other. Truth be told, you really don't even "need" your team to apply macro. If this was actually the case. The recent 10k push for challenger wouldn't have had multiple people achieve 75-86% winrates from unranked all the way to challenger while playing solo. Are you going to imply that every single.one of those players "got luckyyy"? Macro play is definitely more important now than even two years ago. People don't really think about it. But. The bar to remain in certain mmr ranges gradually increases each year. People talk about how ultra high skilled laners were, how super leet their strategy and blah blah was. But honestly? Uh . . . people were actually worseback then. I remember being in plat 1/diamond 5 some years back winning in bot/mid/jungle and I didn't even know how to cs, what times camp respawned, never warded, what waves were what, etc. I could straight brute force my way into diamond with 0 game play knowledge. Even with 100+ cs deficits I won lanes and games purely on mechanics. Try getting diamond 4 like that now. You literally can't. You generally have to have some form of idea about lanes, about rotations, slow pushing, wave stalling, ward placements etc. The ones who slip through the cracks without this knowledge are often the players with 1k games played and coin flipped into d5/4 and then quit playing.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cjKAeJHO,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-09-23T15:19:11.228+0000) > > I'd argue the opposite. When you start dipping into Master the player that usually wins 9/10 times isn't the mechanical God. It's the person that backs appropriately. This is also why Aurelion Sol mains could achieve really dumb 95% winrates all the way to challenger when he could clear waves super easily prior to the nerfs. It allowed him to almost exlusively entertain macro. > > I bet if you just took a week to research the jungle clears/times/paths, learned the function of wave timings + backs and dodged match ups that you truly loathe you'd have significantly more fun, and win more games. And what is "makro is more important in Masters" going to do for 99.95% of the playerbase? It should be the exact opposite. Makro should be the most important part in the game when climbing, and mikro should just be that little bit more skill that pushes you into Master+. Not the other way around.
> [{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cjKAeJHO,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-24T07:07:20.140+0000) > > And what is "makro is more important in Masters" going to do for 99.95% of the playerbase? It should be the exact opposite. Makro should be the most important part in the game when climbing, and mikro should just be that little bit more skill that pushes you into Master+. Not the other way around. I think you missread what I said, but that's okay. You can be really good at micro but it's only going to get you so far. Once you reach a certain rank everyone is pretty much as good as you in a micro sense. Heck, as early as plat people are already pretty good with their champion mechanics and all of that. Challenger and master definitely have more consistent micro sure. But, what ultimately sets each of those players apart, and is also whay sets them apart. From diamond players is definitely macro. As for how is it supposed to help everyone else? The reason those players reach high winrates and climb so fast is because of macro. If you applied the same concepts as them you'd climb. It's honestly the thing that separates just about every single tier apart from each other. Barring iron bronze and low silver. They still lack the literal basics of everything.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cjKAeJHO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-23T14:00:01.120+0000) > > A misconception is that macro doesn't matter at all when that couldn't be further from the truth. > > Granted, some champions can be more obnoxious than others, and Riven can be r%%%%%ed to play with/against ((i already know who that's directed at.)) But, at the same time, it's really hard to read this while also knowing you play a champion that has been repeatedly used by higher level players to hit challenger with 70+% winrates while playing solo. And if your post was at all accurate, then these players would never have been able to do that. > > It logically makes no sense. Looking at general mechanics, having played in a lot higher mmr ranges . . . top lane player mechanics are very similar to a master or challenger. ((When it comes to these particular champions I think it's pretty true. Nasus can only click Q so many ways.)) So, the only exception between the two would be. You guessed it. Macro. > > I'm also not a fan of the new skins, or any of that. I'm not a fan of aftershock pyke building bruiser + assassin while being tanky. And there are indeed some frustrations fighting some champs. But honestly? Climbing is still definitely possible. And. In my honest opinion. I feel the majority of people don't know how to bite the bullet and dodge games that would be frustrating to play, and they partially create their own misery. I feel it's the most underutilized ability we players have. Instead, most diamond/plat players would rather eat a loss and spend 39 minutes complaining instead of just xing out of the client for 3 lp and noping out of it all together. > > Additionally, I have learned ((top laners especially)) have absolutely 0 respect for junglers, mid laners, and their own lane match up. It's at such a bad state of disrespect now that it's hard to even feel sorry for the players and makes them even more abuseable. I don't even like iwilldominate and he blatantly disproved hashinshin's complaints with one single sweep. Hashinshin had at least 10k games as Jax, and IWD, in just a month, outranked him with a better winrate with the same champs. And he's a jungle main. It really puts into perspective when the jungler out ranks you in your own game and you still refuse to listen to the concept of respecting lanes and junglers. And that there, is where most top laners create their own misery. > > So, if you don't enjoy the game. That's cool,a lot of us don't from time to time. But, don't imply X doesn't matter, and X is impossible, and X is the only way to play when that is simply false. The problem with your response is that you make the assumption that I claim macro doesn’t matter. That is not what I said. I said it is less emphasized, and micro play is far more important. This doesn’t discount or invalidate macro play, because got macro play to be totally scrapped would be impossible - the game couldn’t function. So please, don’t twist my words here: I am acknowledging that macro works. I am simply stating that it is less emphasized, coming from a place where macro was far more emphasized in the past. I admit I’m guilty for not making the distinction of past gameplay clear, but that’s what I’m alluding. You can win with macro play, its just incredibly frustrating to do.
> [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cjKAeJHO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-23T15:04:55.237+0000) > > The problem with your response is that you make the assumption that I claim macro doesn’t matter. That is not what I said. I said it is less emphasized, and micro play is far more important. This doesn’t discount or invalidate macro play, because got macro play to be totally scrapped would be impossible - the game couldn’t function. So please, don’t twist my words here: I am acknowledging that macro works. I am simply stating that it is less emphasized, coming from a place where macro was far more emphasized in the past. I admit I’m guilty for not making the distinction of past gameplay clear, but that’s what I’m alluding. You can win with macro play, its just incredibly frustrating to do. I'd argue the opposite. When you start dipping into Master the player that usually wins 9/10 times isn't the mechanical God. It's the person that backs appropriately. This is also why Aurelion Sol mains could achieve really dumb 95% winrates all the way to challenger when he could clear waves super easily prior to the nerfs. It allowed him to almost exlusively entertain macro. I bet if you just took a week to research the jungle clears/times/paths, learned the function of wave timings + backs and dodged match ups that you truly loathe you'd have significantly more fun, and win more games.
: im not going to split hairs over a hypothetical just to fit your narrative
> [{quoted}](name=CharDeeMcDenniz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-23T13:14:53.988+0000) > > im not going to split hairs over a hypothetical just to fit your narrative That's fine. I reckon spending life in prison for stopping at a stop sign for 1 second instead of 1.5 is also justifiable. After going 80 in a 60 three and a half years ago. It's a solid and fair punishment.
: You know what? League just isn’t fun anymore.
A misconception is that macro doesn't matter at all when that couldn't be further from the truth. Granted, some champions can be more obnoxious than others, and Riven can be r%%%%%ed to play with/against ((i already know who that's directed at.)) But, at the same time, it's really hard to read this while also knowing you play a champion that has been repeatedly used by higher level players to hit challenger with 70+% winrates while playing solo. And if your post was at all accurate, then these players would never have been able to do that. It logically makes no sense. Looking at general mechanics, having played in a lot higher mmr ranges . . . top lane player mechanics are very similar to a master or challenger. ((When it comes to these particular champions I think it's pretty true. Nasus can only click Q so many ways.)) So, the only exception between the two would be. You guessed it. Macro. I'm also not a fan of the new skins, or any of that. I'm not a fan of aftershock pyke building bruiser + assassin while being tanky. And there are indeed some frustrations fighting some champs. But honestly? Climbing is still definitely possible. And. In my honest opinion. I feel the majority of people don't know how to bite the bullet and dodge games that would be frustrating to play, and they partially create their own misery. I feel it's the most underutilized ability we players have. Instead, most diamond/plat players would rather eat a loss and spend 39 minutes complaining instead of just xing out of the client for 3 lp and noping out of it all together. Additionally, I have learned ((top laners especially)) have absolutely 0 respect for junglers, mid laners, and their own lane match up. It's at such a bad state of disrespect now that it's hard to even feel sorry for the players and makes them even more abuseable. I don't even like iwilldominate and he blatantly disproved hashinshin's complaints with one single sweep. Hashinshin had at least 10k games as Jax, and IWD, in just a month, outranked him with a better winrate with the same champs. And he's a jungle main. It really puts into perspective when the jungler out ranks you in your own game and you still refuse to listen to the concept of respecting lanes and junglers. And that there, is where most top laners create their own misery. So, if you don't enjoy the game. That's cool,a lot of us don't from time to time. But, don't imply X doesn't matter, and X is impossible, and X is the only way to play when that is simply false.
: and I'd have no one to blame but myself see the point?
> [{quoted}](name=CharDeeMcDenniz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-21T13:50:20.595+0000) > > and I'd have no one to blame but myself > > see the point? If you're going to the speed limit, or even 5 under the likelihood of you going over is very high. Even with cruise control. In order for you to not go over the limit while going down a hill you have to ride your brakes, which in itself, puts others at risk due to 1: deliberate hindrance of the flow of traffic 2. Repeated brake checks by the untrained. This is one of the big reasons police officers give speed graces on downward slopes over the "rule of 5." So no, I don't see your logic, or point at all. The overwhelming majority of the world would be in prison for life due to harsh traffic violations if we went with your mentality.
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T17:00:17.400+0000) > > > Does that seem fair to you? Does that seem like you had an opportunity to learn from your mistakes? if after you recieved a 600$ ticket **AND had your license taken away for 2 full weeks** then yes, that would be ample opprotunity to learn from your mistakes
> [{quoted}](name=CharDeeMcDenniz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T17:06:22.423+0000) > > if after you recieved a 600$ ticket **AND had your license taken away for 2 full weeks** then yes, that would be ample opprotunity to learn from your mistakes I'll be waiting at the bottom of the hill for when that speedometer goes 1 over.
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T02:54:31.402+0000) > > As far as toxicity goes, it's based on the local context. Korea is toxic by NA standards, but players over there are tolerant of higher levels of toxicity. They simply don't report for the same things. > > That being said, if soft-inting is an issue, then it would need to be solved, sure. We can speculate on different ways to do that - maybe a Tribunal-esque system that's gated by rank which filters the list so that only Riot employees only have to manually review the subset of reports actually deemed guilty, or maybe an algorithm that compares patterns in play by the same player to see when they're intentionally playing poorly. > > However, regardless of how the soft-inting is tackled "I need to smurf because sometimes I leave games when people are trolling" is not a valid reason to allow smurfing. Tribunal doesn't work. Nor did it with rewards. So, that's a wasted thought to be honest. Korea players do in fact actually report. You'd know that if you watched Cowsep at all. Riot Korea just literally does not care. In fact, the extreme majority of NA toxicity was adopted from korea toxicity and deemed appropriate by the populace, regretfully. As for by "na standards" virtually any player from any server widely agrees that korea is hilariously toxic. They will out right open mid on you and go afk over slight miss haps with 0 care. Also, again, algorithms cannot detect passive inting. The only reason players in game can even detect passive inting is because they knew the entire circumstance associated with it,and even then, it's virtually unproveable and can be criticized either way. Passive inting can be very easily associated with "miss play." Or "bad game." Which neither are punisheable offenses. And. Sense you cannot prove without a reasonable doubt that it was in fact a grief play due to the subtle nature it cannot be punished. Also, the reason players are allowed to smurf is because it's a free to play game that lets you have alternate accounts. Smurfing in itself is not bad in any way shape or form o.O so. I fail to understand where you assume that smurfing shouldn't be allowed. When, you know, almost every multiplayer game ever lets you do literally that. Do you feel Call of Duty should ban smurfing? It exists there too by the way.
> [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-09-20T19:37:40.239+0000) > > How many of those numbers are VoIP (online/app-provided/etc) numbers that are mobile and not currently used by anyone else? Because DOTA won't accept any of those. There all numbers attached to cell phones and can be text/ talk etc.
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T02:54:31.402+0000) > > As far as toxicity goes, it's based on the local context. Korea is toxic by NA standards, but players over there are tolerant of higher levels of toxicity. They simply don't report for the same things. > > That being said, if soft-inting is an issue, then it would need to be solved, sure. We can speculate on different ways to do that - maybe a Tribunal-esque system that's gated by rank which filters the list so that only Riot employees only have to manually review the subset of reports actually deemed guilty, or maybe an algorithm that compares patterns in play by the same player to see when they're intentionally playing poorly. > > However, regardless of how the soft-inting is tackled "I need to smurf because sometimes I leave games when people are trolling" is not a valid reason to allow smurfing. Tribunal doesn't work. Nor did it with rewards. So, that's a wasted thought to be honest. Korea players do in fact actually report. You'd know that if you watched Cowsep at all. Riot Korea just literally does not care. In fact, the extreme majority of NA toxicity was adopted from korea toxicity and deemed appropriate by the populace, regretfully. As for by "na standards" virtually any player from any server widely agrees that korea is hilariously toxic. They will out right open mid on you and go afk over slight miss haps with 0 care. Also, again, algorithms cannot detect passive inting. The only reason players in game can even detect passive inting is because they knew the entire circumstance associated with it,and even then, it's virtually unproveable and can be criticized either way. Passive inting can be very easily associated with "miss play." Or "bad game." Which neither are punisheable offenses. And. Sense you cannot prove without a reasonable doubt that it was in fact a grief play due to the subtle nature it cannot be punished. Also, the reason players are allowed to smurf is because it's a free to play game that lets you have alternate accounts. Smurfing in itself is not bad in any way shape or form o.O so. I fail to understand where you assume that smurfing shouldn't be allowed. When, you know, almost every multiplayer game ever lets you do literally that. Do you feel Call of Duty should ban smurfing? It exists there too by the way.
> [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-09-20T19:37:40.239+0000) > > How many of those numbers are VoIP (online/app-provided/etc) numbers that are mobile and not currently used by anyone else? Because DOTA won't accept any of those. There all numbers attached to cell phones and can be text/ talk etc.
: > [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T02:54:31.402+0000) > > As far as toxicity goes, it's based on the local context. Korea is toxic by NA standards, but players over there are tolerant of higher levels of toxicity. They simply don't report for the same things. > > That being said, if soft-inting is an issue, then it would need to be solved, sure. We can speculate on different ways to do that - maybe a Tribunal-esque system that's gated by rank which filters the list so that only Riot employees only have to manually review the subset of reports actually deemed guilty, or maybe an algorithm that compares patterns in play by the same player to see when they're intentionally playing poorly. > > However, regardless of how the soft-inting is tackled "I need to smurf because sometimes I leave games when people are trolling" is not a valid reason to allow smurfing. Tribunal doesn't work. Nor did it with rewards. So, that's a wasted thought to be honest. Korea players do in fact actually report. You'd know that if you watched Cowsep at all. Riot Korea just literally does not care. In fact, the extreme majority of NA toxicity was adopted from korea toxicity and deemed appropriate by the populace, regretfully. As for by "na standards" virtually any player from any server widely agrees that korea is hilariously toxic. They will out right open mid on you and go afk over slight miss haps with 0 care. Also, again, algorithms cannot detect passive inting. The only reason players in game can even detect passive inting is because they knew the entire circumstance associated with it,and even then, it's virtually unproveable and can be criticized either way. Passive inting can be very easily associated with "miss play." Or "bad game." Which neither are punisheable offenses. And. Sense you cannot prove without a reasonable doubt that it was in fact a grief play due to the subtle nature it cannot be punished. Also, the reason players are allowed to smurf is because it's a free to play game that lets you have alternate accounts. Smurfing in itself is not bad in any way shape or form o.O so. I fail to understand where you assume that smurfing shouldn't be allowed. When, you know, almost every multiplayer game ever lets you do literally that. Do you feel Call of Duty should ban smurfing? It exists there too by the way.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T04:49:51.100+0000) > > Oh, I thought we had already established that. It's pretty simple really. There are two main reasons: When there is a barrier to repeated entry, such as requiring a phone number to create an account, penalties such as bans are more effective because the target of those penalties cannot easily create a new account. Second, smurfing hurts matchmaking. When a high elo player creates a new account, he/she ruins games for the silvers, golds, and plats that he plays with and against all the way back up to high elo. It's not persistent, as eventually the player reaches their true MMR again, but in the interim, other players suffer. > > The game can be free to play without catering to smurfs. By the sounds of it, you're complaining about diamond + smurfing being the determining factor in ruining match making. Honestly, our population is so miniscule that it's hard to argue that "we" are the ruining of match making. https://puu.sh/EjlsI/74d762a378.png The rank says plat 1. But, I'm playing in diamond 1 mmr. I've been playing in diamond mmr since game 7 on that account. 2 of the games were in high plat. Can't really say that a p2-1 player was significantly impacted considering it's not relatively uncommon for a p2-1 player to play vs d3-4 players as it is. So, I played in 5 games that were more skewed toward my favor. In the game of statistics I cannot say that my 5 games had any true impact in the world of any of those players ranked climbing. With that said. Would you consider a gold 2 smurf in a silver 1-gold 4 game ruining match making? Because truth be told. The over whelming majority of the smurfs you face aren't even diamond. If they told you that they're majority of the time lying to you. The abundance of them are high gold, at best, plat 3-2. As for the phone number. In my time playing, I've had access to over 20 phone numbers. So, by default, I'm entitled to 20 accounts. I currently have access to 6 fresh numbers as it is now, soo technically I can have 26 accounts. That's 22 more accounts than I currently possess, so it seems like my smurfing needs are completely taken care of in regards to your system. I'm not the only one for sure. The only people this actually stops are bronze/low silver players from "smurfing." Tarzaned makes over 10k a month. If all it requires is him to change his burner phones number for free by complaining about spam callers he'll do just that. P.S: It's not as hard to change a phone number as you might believe. The particular bunch you decided to target can acquire all of these steps in an extremely easy and efficient manner. It may, or may not, target the bot account players, sure . . . but if we're replicating Dota's system. The phone number is exclusively for ranked, and not to make an account . . . so, you pay 5-6 bucks for a bot leveled account and slap a free burner phone number down into the ranked system and get the text. Hm . . . nope, can't say it did anything at all to me. So, I'll still be ruining the lives of everyone in the literally 2 games I'm in gold I spose!
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T01:49:10.738+0000) > > World of Craft operates on a subscription basis, Korea as well already operates on a social security # for you to have an account and they are both still toxic. Korea arguably being the most toxic server in LoL. So, the system is already pseudo implemented. > > Also, there is no automated system that can accurately determinr what is passive inting and not. If you disagree, I am more than willing to describe a scenario and I'll leave it to you to decide which player passively inted. As far as toxicity goes, it's based on the local context. Korea is toxic by NA standards, but players over there are tolerant of higher levels of toxicity. They simply don't report for the same things. That being said, if soft-inting is an issue, then it would need to be solved, sure. We can speculate on different ways to do that - maybe a Tribunal-esque system that's gated by rank which filters the list so that only Riot employees only have to manually review the subset of reports actually deemed guilty, or maybe an algorithm that compares patterns in play by the same player to see when they're intentionally playing poorly. However, regardless of how the soft-inting is tackled "I need to smurf because sometimes I leave games when people are trolling" is not a valid reason to allow smurfing.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T02:54:31.402+0000) > > As far as toxicity goes, it's based on the local context. Korea is toxic by NA standards, but players over there are tolerant of higher levels of toxicity. They simply don't report for the same things. > > That being said, if soft-inting is an issue, then it would need to be solved, sure. We can speculate on different ways to do that - maybe a Tribunal-esque system that's gated by rank which filters the list so that only Riot employees only have to manually review the subset of reports actually deemed guilty, or maybe an algorithm that compares patterns in play by the same player to see when they're intentionally playing poorly. > > However, regardless of how the soft-inting is tackled "I need to smurf because sometimes I leave games when people are trolling" is not a valid reason to allow smurfing. Tribunal doesn't work. Nor did it with rewards. So, that's a wasted thought to be honest. Korea players do in fact actually report. You'd know that if you watched Cowsep at all. Riot Korea just literally does not care. In fact, the extreme majority of NA toxicity was adopted from korea toxicity and deemed appropriate by the populace, regretfully. As for by "na standards" virtually any player from any server widely agrees that korea is hilariously toxic. They will out right open mid on you and go afk over slight miss haps with 0 care. Also, again, algorithms cannot detect passive inting. The only reason players in game can even detect passive inting is because they knew the entire circumstance associated with it,and even then, it's virtually unproveable and can be criticized either way. Passive inting can be very easily associated with "miss play." Or "bad game." Which neither are punisheable offenses. And. Sense you cannot prove without a reasonable doubt that it was in fact a grief play due to the subtle nature it cannot be punished. Also, the reason players are allowed to smurf is because it's a free to play game that lets you have alternate accounts. Smurfing in itself is not bad in any way shape or form o.O so. I fail to understand where you assume that smurfing shouldn't be allowed. When, you know, almost every multiplayer game ever lets you do literally that. Do you feel Call of Duty should ban smurfing? It exists there too by the way.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T22:09:09.099+0000) > > The ticket system is automated and manual review requests are quickly brushed aside. The review does not get special treatment just because they're high elo. It also requires someone of equal or close to the mmr to actually understand what they're even looking at. This does not exist in Riot Support and they truly do not care about passive inting. I can say that with absolute 100% certainty because I have personally sent in multiple video clips with detailed explanations only to get a text book automated response and a disregard. If accounts are not easy to come by, the frequency of toxicity will go down, either by the banning of toxic elements or by a change in a behavior due to not wanting to lose one's account. Even if you are correct that Riot does not have the needed capacity _today_ to police a very specific subset of toxicity, that is not a valid argument for not rolling out a system that reduces overall toxicity as a whole. The right strategy would be to implement the system that prevents smurfs in conjunction with better mechanisms for detecting what you're calling "passive inting" and harsher punishments for offenders when they're caught.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T00:21:05.763+0000) > > If accounts are not easy to come by, the frequency of toxicity will go down, either by the banning of toxic elements or by a change in a behavior due to not wanting to lose one's account. Even if you are correct that Riot does not have the needed capacity _today_ to police a very specific subset of toxicity, that is not a valid argument for not rolling out a system that reduces overall toxicity as a whole. The right strategy would be to implement the system that prevents smurfs in conjunction with better mechanisms for detecting what you're calling "passive inting" and harsher punishments for offenders when they're caught. World of Craft operates on a subscription basis, Korea as well already operates on a social security # for you to have an account and they are both still toxic. Korea arguably being the most toxic server in LoL. So, the system is already pseudo implemented. Also, there is no automated system that can accurately determinr what is passive inting and not. If you disagree, I am more than willing to describe a scenario and I'll leave it to you to decide which player passively inted.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T21:03:25.109+0000) > > You should look up korean passive inting and tell me how you can actually track that through a system. Because that's what originated why NA high elo is the way it is now. I'll tell you the answer. It's impossible. Actually, for the same reasons you think it's a problem, high elo is pretty much the only place where it's likely possible to control that, as the population is small enough and arguably important enough for manual review. Besides, without the ability to easily create a new account and continue playing, one can reasonably expect the overall level of toxicity to drop.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T21:59:09.389+0000) > > Actually, for the same reasons you think it's a problem, high elo is pretty much the only place where it's likely possible to control that, as the population is small enough and arguably important enough for manual review. > > Besides, without the ability to easily create a new account and continue playing, one can reasonably expect the overall level of toxicity to drop. The ticket system is automated and manual review requests are quickly brushed aside. The review does not get special treatment just because they're high elo. It also requires someone of equal or close to the mmr to actually understand what they're even looking at. This does not exist in Riot Support and they truly do not care about passive inting. I can say that with absolute 100% certainty because I have personally sent in multiple video clips with detailed explanations only to get a text book automated response and a disregard.
: Well in that case I don't think smurfing can REALLY be punished - in the case where the "smurf" tries their best every game. Those "smurfs" climb pretty close to their actual elo relatively quickly (within 50-100 games maximum). It's the smurfs that intentionally grief games to continue smurfing are the ones that'll be banned.
> [{quoted}](name=TehRamboCow,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2019-09-19T21:18:34.602+0000) > > Well in that case I don't think smurfing can REALLY be punished - in the case where the "smurf" tries their best every game. > > Those "smurfs" climb pretty close to their actual elo relatively quickly (within 50-100 games maximum). It's the smurfs that intentionally grief games to continue smurfing are the ones that'll be banned. That's part of why I feel like "actual" smurfing isn't as big a deal as a lot of people make it out to be. My alt is below p2 for a grand total of about . . . 10 games? (Least prior to the new leveling set up. Haven't made one lately.)) But I'd go 10/0 in series and by game 15 already play vs p1/diamond players. How much of silver did I TRULY impact there? As for super toxic players who get alts and get banned again and again? I personally feel low level toxicity should be punished harshly, and we need to implement a system where if you're hyper toxic/ running it down/ issuing death threats pre 30 you need to just be two week/permad within the 2nd or 3rd game of doing it. When I leveled my last account I ran into this in 95% of my low level games. The problem is with them being "new" players they get allowed a lot of "grace" in regards to toxicity and this is part of how they slip back into the system. If they get detected and banned before even 30 the amount of "toxic smurfs" you run into will die down pretty significantly. This can apply to botted accounts as well. If they're toxic within their first 1000 words typed receive extremely harsh punishments. It's just a suggestion. Not a be all end all fix.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-19T19:55:23.851+0000) > > They friend each other to see if that person is in queue so that they can avoid them. It has almost nothing to do with being friends. Think of it more as a "fuck this guy" list moreso than a "friends" list. That's literally the opposite of what it's for.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T21:02:35.480+0000) > > That's literally the opposite of what it's for. Welcome to high elo lol. I have like 40 friend requests i havent accepted and none of them are for the sake of friendship.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T20:01:59.126+0000) > > They would be less inclinded to play because a lot of them games would feel forced and awful to play. The mentality of high elo is a lot more different than lower. Also the lower population of alts would mean an increase in wait time as well because dodges would have higher impact. If I dodge a 100% troll game I can no longer requeue as an alt. I have to sit there for the full 30. So that takes me out of the queue entirely. Seems to me like the problem is less not being able to smurf and more needing to deter trolling. That said, someone banning your pick isn't "trolling." Maybe banning people's picks happens in high elo, but it happens in competitive/professional play too. It's not a valid reason to dodge. What we probably need are faster response times reports of trolling in champ select (MIDORIFEED type stuff), and higher penalties for dodging. Combined with not being able to smurf, higher penalties for unwanted behavior should have people playing out more games rather than cherrypicking only the matchups they want.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T20:25:32.709+0000) > > Seems to me like the problem is less not being able to smurf and more needing to deter trolling. > > That said, someone banning your pick isn't "trolling." Maybe banning people's picks happens in high elo, but it happens in competitive/professional play too. It's not a valid reason to dodge. > > What we probably need are faster response times reports of trolling in champ select (MIDORIFEED type stuff), and higher penalties for dodging. Combined with not being able to smurf, higher penalties for unwanted behavior should have people playing out more games rather than cherrypicking only the matchups they want. You should look up korean passive inting and tell me how you can actually track that through a system. Because that's what originated why NA high elo is the way it is now. I'll tell you the answer. It's impossible.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T16:16:51.017+0000) > > I don't think you caught what I said lol. > > High high elo players queue into an extremely small population and because of that, if they say, can only play the game at 5-6 am? Not only are they waiting 30+ minutes for a game. If anyone on their friends list ((which most of them have eachother added)) see that they other is in champ select too, they will just outright target ban your champs. So, saaay you're an Ahri main? Well, now you're effectively at half capacity and have to play a champ you're not near as effective at. So, now you're going to play a 30+ minute wait time game to be . . . target banned. Make matters worse, you're an Ahri main streamer and your stream really only wants to watch you play Ahri. You'd usually save face and dodge because you can go play on an alternate account that's slightly lower mmr. But, if you dodge now, you could be waiting upwards to an hour to play a game you might target banned yet again in. Also, you work all the time now and can only get a game or two in? Too bad though, it's 7:30 now and gotta get ready for work. Now your mmr tanks due to how high elo decay works and you're officially D1 again. > > Making it so you can only have 1 account will honestly just screw the streaming + high elo community. It also makes it a lot easier to "troll" people. They know you really don't want to dodge because of time constraints, and so if you don't get the role you want you can threaten to make the game a terrible terrible time. Yeah, you can be reported and all of that for going something dumb like Kat jungle, but it's technically not punishable and you just wasted everyones time + LP. But at the same time, if you truly have nothing to lose ((like a stream, or competitive integrity)) Why would you care? So long as you say nothing you can't be punished, and if someone else gets mad at you? You can potentially take away their only account. There is no true downside to you passive trolling, and only stuff to gain because you're taking out your own direct competition via bans lol. > > Let's not forget the population of diamond would effectively drop by 40-60% ((Yes, that's how many smurfs are in diamond. It's kind of ridiculous.)) If high elo players are currently likely to dodge if they don't get their preferred pick since they can switch to another account, then wouldn't preventing smurfing decrease the queue times in high elo by forcing the high elo players to play on their main accounts, thereby increasing the effective population at any given time? Also, does it matter if the population of diamond were to drop by 40-60% if that 40-60% consists of smurfs? It's not like someone can play on multiple accounts at the same time, so the disappearance of smurfs would have no effect on queue times, except to decrease them as explained above.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T16:58:41.533+0000) > > If high elo players are currently likely to dodge if they don't get their preferred pick since they can switch to another account, then wouldn't preventing smurfing decrease the queue times in high elo by forcing the high elo players to play on their main accounts, thereby increasing the effective population at any given time? > > Also, does it matter if the population of diamond were to drop by 40-60% if that 40-60% consists of smurfs? It's not like someone can play on multiple accounts at the same time, so the disappearance of smurfs would have no effect on queue times, except to decrease them as explained above. They would be less inclinded to play because a lot of them games would feel forced and awful to play. The mentality of high elo is a lot more different than lower. Also the lower population of alts would mean an increase in wait time as well because dodges would have higher impact. If I dodge a 100% troll game I can no longer requeue as an alt. I have to sit there for the full 30. So that takes me out of the queue entirely.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T16:16:51.017+0000) > High high elo players queue into an extremely small population and because of that, if they say, can only play the game at 5-6 am? Not only are they waiting 30+ minutes for a game. If anyone on their friends list ((which most of them have eachother added)) see that they other is in champ select too, they will just outright target ban your champs. Intentionally banning someone's pocket pick isn't friend behavior. Maybe they should just _not friend people that aren't their friends_?
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-19T18:50:03.545+0000) > > Intentionally banning someone's pocket pick isn't friend behavior. > Maybe they should just _not friend people that aren't their friends_? They friend each other to see if that person is in queue so that they can avoid them. It has almost nothing to do with being friends. Think of it more as a "fuck this guy" list moreso than a "friends" list.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-09-19T15:47:17.580+0000) > > If they made it so you couldn't smurf in this game high elo would effectively die because nobody would want to climb. Why isn't this a problem in DOTA? Once you reach where you're supposed to be in the ladder, you cease climbing until your skill improves. That's how ladders work. > For reference, imagine after two months of play you have to play at exclusively X hours, and only get to play 1 game ((and decay at the same time)) a week because the queue times are 30+ minutes. Best part? You just got target banned and can't dodge because of the time wasted. Don't we have autofill to keep queue times reasonable? Isn't high elo supposed to entail some kind of bragging rights? Dia+ isn't for casuals.
> [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k1fETiew,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-09-19T16:02:35.011+0000) > > Why isn't this a problem in DOTA? Once you reach where you're supposed to be in the ladder, you cease climbing until your skill improves. That's how ladders work. > > Don't we have autofill to keep queue times reasonable? Isn't high elo supposed to entail some kind of bragging rights? Dia+ isn't for casuals. I don't think you caught what I said lol. High high elo players queue into an extremely small population and because of that, if they say, can only play the game at 5-6 am? Not only are they waiting 30+ minutes for a game. If anyone on their friends list ((which most of them have eachother added)) see that they other is in champ select too, they will just outright target ban your champs. So, saaay you're an Ahri main? Well, now you're effectively at half capacity and have to play a champ you're not near as effective at. So, now you're going to play a 30+ minute wait time game to be . . . target banned. Make matters worse, you're an Ahri main streamer and your stream really only wants to watch you play Ahri. You'd usually save face and dodge because you can go play on an alternate account that's slightly lower mmr. But, if you dodge now, you could be waiting upwards to an hour to play a game you might target banned yet again in. Also, you work all the time now and can only get a game or two in? Too bad though, it's 7:30 now and gotta get ready for work. Now your mmr tanks due to how high elo decay works and you're officially D1 again. Making it so you can only have 1 account will honestly just screw the streaming + high elo community. It also makes it a lot easier to "troll" people. They know you really don't want to dodge because of time constraints, and so if you don't get the role you want you can threaten to make the game a terrible terrible time. Yeah, you can be reported and all of that for going something dumb like Kat jungle, but it's technically not punishable and you just wasted everyones time + LP. But at the same time, if you truly have nothing to lose ((like a stream, or competitive integrity)) Why would you care? So long as you say nothing you can't be punished, and if someone else gets mad at you? You can potentially take away their only account. There is no true downside to you passive trolling, and only stuff to gain because you're taking out your own direct competition via bans lol. Let's not forget the population of diamond would effectively drop by 40-60% ((Yes, that's how many smurfs are in diamond. It's kind of ridiculous.))
: Meanwhile, over in DOTA land:
If they made it so you couldn't smurf in this game high elo would effectively die because nobody would want to climb. For reference, imagine after two months of play you have to play at exclusively X hours, and only get to play 1 game ((and decay at the same time)) a week because the queue times are 30+ minutes. Best part? You just got target banned and can't dodge because of the time wasted.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NcyYFg5E,comment-id=002d000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-18T23:54:34.797+0000) > > He's definitely being ran in the marksman slot akin to how Yasuo bot lane works actually. It also doesn't really "appear." It's factual. If a Leona gets nuked, she's done in lane. Pyke can make an extremely risky play to chunk someone out and then turn around and do it again 10-15 seconds later. This adds up exponentially over time compared to other bot laners. If a Leona gets nuked, she doesn't lose as much health, and she had more to start with. Pyke gets no bonus health, is heavily discouraged from building resistances, has no resistance steroid, and has no shield; all of his durability comes from that heal and sometimes Aftershock. He is one of the squishiest targets in the game, relying on not-quite-dying and then running away... like an assassin. I suppose it is a factual claim you're making, but that fact is incorrect. I don't know why I'm even bothering talking to an echo chamber. Think whatever you want.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NcyYFg5E,comment-id=002d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T00:12:20.381+0000) > > If a Leona gets nuked, she doesn't lose as much health, and she had more to start with. Pyke gets no bonus health, is heavily discouraged from building resistances, has no resistance steroid, and has no shield; all of his durability comes from that heal and sometimes Aftershock. He is one of the squishiest targets in the game, relying on not-quite-dying and then running away... like an assassin. > > I suppose it is a factual claim you're making, but that fact is incorrect. > > I don't know why I'm even bothering talking to an echo chamber. Think whatever you want. He literally has some of the highest base scaling resistances in the game, on top of the ability to buy GA + Merc Treads and have a full build in roughly 17 minutes. After the first initial 5800 gold ((Which is REALLY easy for Pyke to acquire)) he can effectively build nothing but bruiser items ((GA/Hexdrinker/)) Or even entertain {{item:3814}} For a banshees veil. So, I'm not exactly sure where he's "discouraged." But, I suppose if we want to play the minigame. If Leona were in that literally exact same situation, she would be roughly at 30-40% life after the full blown nuke. But, unlike Pyke she would not have gotten away and would have eaten, at minimun, two more Qs and probably have died. Applying this to lane mechanics. Leona walks up to proc relic shield. Leona eats three autos and a snare + two more autos. Leona is now at 50% life and has to either A: go in, B: walk back and pop pots + cower behind turret for health regen. Leona is now no longer a champion for 35-40 seconds and can even be tower dove. Pyke walks up to proc relic shield. Eats two autos and a random poke ability, then jukes the snare by using his camo + speed boost. Pyke's healing negates half of the poke + one full auto. Pyke goes around and Q's the enemy and goes in because he essentially negated half the kits damage out put. The trade is really solid but both bot laners lose about 70% of their life and blow sums and back off. Pyke just walks back into the bush and recovers from near death back to half health + pops a pot. Pyke goes right back in and gets a double kill because the enemy bot has virtually no life left. And that there is why the Pyke top lane OTP has a 63% wr out of 500 games in Grandmaster. But, I mean, I guess since Leona had more "effective health" she could do stuff like this too? Or, is it safe to be realistic and say that if Leona went after getting yeeted on she would just give first blood and die . . . y'know, with all that extra health these supports generally don't get until way later in the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NcyYFg5E,comment-id=002d0000,timestamp=2019-09-18T20:34:37.082+0000) > > Pyke has defensive items + Aftershock. Regardless, Pyke is honestly too safe and effective of a champ. He's starting to be ran as ADC with a support to back him up because of how effective he is. He doesn't actually NEED to CS, and he doesn't need keystones most marksman take. Combine that with the fact it's really hard to force him out lane ((unlike most ADCS)) and Pyke can sit in botlane all day if his support has even the slightest of healing capabilities. It's kind of ridiculous. I'm actually seeing a lot less of the defensive build now that Pyke relies so much on AD/Lethality ratios. He is definitely not an ADC. Most of his damage is rolled into his ult. It may appear as if Pyke has more endurance in lane than other supports, but that's only because the grey health heal is very noticeable. It's the opposite problem of the aura effects that used to be sprinkled around on some champions and items, like Janna's teamwide passive MS, which were actually very powerful but didn't call attention to themselves. Pyke healed 800 health there, sure, but he also lost 1500 while only having 1600. Other supports would have taken less damage, had more health, and shielded or healed after the stun wore off, likely ending up with pretty much the same amount of remaining health (EH in particular), only without the danger of dying.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NcyYFg5E,comment-id=002d00000000,timestamp=2019-09-18T21:32:29.034+0000) > > I'm actually seeing a lot less of the defensive build now that Pyke relies so much on AD/Lethality ratios. > > He is definitely not an ADC. Most of his damage is rolled into his ult. > > It may appear as if Pyke has more endurance in lane than other supports, but that's only because the grey health heal is very noticeable. It's the opposite problem of the aura effects that used to be sprinkled around on some champions and items, like Janna's teamwide passive MS, which were actually very powerful but didn't call attention to themselves. > > Pyke healed 800 health there, sure, but he also lost 1500 while only having 1600. Other supports would have taken less damage, had more health, and shielded or healed after the stun wore off, likely ending up with pretty much the same amount of remaining health (EH in particular), only without the danger of dying. He's definitely being ran in the marksman slot akin to how Yasuo bot lane works actually. It also doesn't really "appear." It's factual. If a Leona gets nuked, she's done in lane. Pyke can make an extremely risky play to chunk someone out and then turn around and do it again 10-15 seconds later. This adds up exponentially over time compared to other bot laners.
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Emelie Cauchemar

Level 43 (NA)
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