: Clap three times and spin in two circles. Ender L will surface.
: There is an essence reaver users inequality: **ON ONE HAND**: Multiple Hits / Cooldown started before Damage - {{champion:58}}'s W and {{champion:102}}'s Q can reduce their own cooldown because the 2nd ( And 3rd for {{champion:58}} ) hit occurs after the cd start, because the Cooldown start with the first hit. - Same for Abilities like {{champion:81}}'s,{{champion:41}}'s, {{champion:157}}'s and {{champion:105}}'s Q because the cooldown start as the ability is used, resulting in the on hit appening post cd start and having their Qs cooldown reduced by itself. **ON ANOTHER HAND**: - Simple empowered autos such as {{champion:86}}'s, {{champion:48}}'s and {{champion:75}}'s Q or {{champion:24}}'s W aren't reducing their own cooldown because the landing of the ability start the cooldown. - Same for some abilities dealing damage and applying on hit on cooldown start ( Like {{champion:19}}'s Q ) - Abilities such as {{champion:114}}'s W, {{champion:31}}'s E or {{champion:240}}'s W can't reduce themselve because the cooldown start after all the autos are consumed. That's a small problem that probably can't be solved so don't pay attention to these. As a result there is a sort of inequality in term of usage of the essence reaver's steroid. **Question**: Is it intended that stuff that applies on hit once and start their CD as the attack land can't have their on hit used for reducing their own cooldown thanks to essence reaver? Or knowing that there wasn't ever any issue like this of maybe having to tweak the On Hit CD start to imput such mechanic ( Exept for {{champion:102}}'s Q but wasn't needed because 2nd hit was already applying the cd reduce so it was no need to make the first one too ) Are you going to be looking forward to change that?
Thanks for the comment! I forwarded this along to the designer working on essence reaver. Can't promise anything will change, but he is looking into this.
: There is a bug happening sometimes when Master Yi is doing wolves, they just don't move (they still attack and damaging Yi tho)
Would you mind linking a video of this happening?
: With Stormrazor is it more profitable to buy it first with Rengar or still keep Duskblade as the first buy ?
Novalas is the resident Rengar main, but I've found that assassins prefer Duskblade first. After you can toss in a Stormrazor to stack on-hits to maximize your immediate burst.
: Do u think the volibear Buffs in Pbe are enough? I mean a knockback is nice but his big problem is his clearspeed and his dmg. Why for example u are not buffing his W a little bit ( since u nerfed it in S6 and S7 where u took health of many Core Items from Voli)
I think you are underestimating the strength in his Q now. The movement speed scaling with character level is a pretty big buff! Q is his last max and giving him the target access along with the hard-CC on E does a lot for him. His E is great for cancelling dashes from characters. I knocked a Bard out of his Magical Journey earlier today which was highly entertaining (and also got me a kill!)
: Any chance of compensation for top lane on the horizon? Most of his opponents there are also AD, and he doesn't have the sustain that jg J4 does (through smite and machete lifesteal). It just seems every time he's nerfed for JG his top lane gets hit.
Don't think so. Will see just how much he is affected top lane first.
2Spicy (EUW)
: so is there more buffs planned for him?
I don't think so, at least in the immediate future. I'd say that he doesn't fit super well into the meta right now. If you recall, he was quite popular at the turn of the new season with MF and the other Arcane Comet users. His issue is that there is a lot of sustain in the bot lane so he can't have an impact there with Comet and late game most other ADC's will out damage him. Numbers changes can help with stuff like that, but not make a huge impact simply because his type of champion is not what is succeeding most at the moment.
: Do you think Swain will be a new midlaner that is able to utilize ghost? I mean in that ult it just seems to good to pass up. Also, when you designed Swain, what about his toplane identity?
Swain loves Ghost! Try out Unsealed Spellbook and you can start with Ignite or Heal for laning, trade to TP, and then Ghost for mid to late game. I think he can be a pretty good toplaner, although his range is fairly low so he is more punishable than most mages. He makes up for that at level 6 though when he can turn around most ganks 1v2!
2Spicy (EUW)
: What do you think of the current state of Jhin?
Pretty lackluster. Hard for him to do much in a meta of hyper-carries and passive play. With relic shield gone as an option for ADC's, he's in a better state than before I would assume. But still weaker than most.
: Why the armor nerf specifically to J4? Doesn't that hurt top J4 more than jungle? Also: (not sure if allowed to answer) how are Wit's end tweaks coming along?
Armor nerfs typically hit junglers more heavily because they use the stat the entire time they are clearing. While his speed/damage will stay the same, he will be lower health. That means its more risky for him to gank (in the event he is countered) and his dueling is generally weaker. Not just because he has less health going in, but also because most junglers deal attack damage.
: But you guys also took a huge hit to early game with frost fang changes. So this seems really heavy handed considering she and nid were really only viable ap jungle options at this point. The "compensation buffs" to runics doesn't even out the playing field for AP junglers.
I'd say its better to see how she pans out with a build path we're willing to support and then see if she needs further work.
: I remember Jhat doing a breakdown of Kayn when he came out, saying that he has some of the highest base stats which are supposed to help him succeed against other junglers early, and then transforming gives him the power he needs to succeed mid/late. Is this not the case? Or is the base stat advantage just not enough to help him succeed early when he's supposed to?
I'd say his early dueling is quite weak. However, his clear speed is pretty nice (and he really excels at farming raptors), which can give him the tools to counter-jungle. Its probably a good idea to vacate the premises if the enemy team shows up though :)
Arveanor (NA)
: Why didn't we see any compensation buffs for some of the champions affected by the minion aggro change this patch?
Mainly to see how they affect them overall. It's hard to predict exactly what a systemic change like that is going to do to winrates so its valuable to get that information.
: Hi. Im wondering if you guys are planning on making any changes to kassadin to compensate for the pretty large hit he took this patch, adding onto his already pretty brutal early game.
Think we're waiting to see how hard the changes actually hit him. Will reassess later.
: Hi, we meet again! I am the passionate Support {{champion:61}} Main, This "enabling champs access to other roles" is getting me really excited! As if I really needed even more to be hyped for this season! This time I won't be talking about Orianna's potential as a support though. Today I wanted to talk about {{champion:127}}'s posiition in the game. The poke meta doesnt favor her now. But even during the former assassin meta she wasn't a popular pick either. A passive rework was considered but never went through. Can we expect anything coming her way? PS: Ty 4 the SS changes, its good to be tax free!
I remember you :) Don't have any news on Lissandra unfortunately, but I'm glad you liked the SS changes!
LankPants (OCE)
: It's a shame that the Zyra changes never actually addressed the inherent problem of Zyra mid, due to her high bases and low ratios on her main source of damage she doesn't actually convert gold into power efficiently which makes funnelling gold onto her questionable. I can't see Zyra ever going mid until this issue is solved even if she's effective there because there's just no scaling power and you may as well put her support where her high bases are more relevant.
Difficulty here with changing around the ratios/base damages is that that could hurt support Zyra. Goal of the changes was to make her viable in mid without losing any power in the support role (since she has been struggling there for a while too). So her early game got a bit of a bump with the expectation that she could turn lane priority into an advantage, since she has a pretty rough time last-hitting when shoved into her tower.
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Ender L,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=wRUXAmkK,comment-id=001e0002,timestamp=2018-01-11T04:32:03.521+0000) > > I believe the idea behind bring Morgana and Zyra into the mid lane was more of an effort to give them power in a lane they were originally intended for. I&#x27;m personally all for having tools for Orianna to feel good about going bot lane, but we don&#x27;t have any immediate plans for that as far as I&#x27;m aware. Understood and perfecly understandble. Not having plans was expected. In any case, should the team ever intend on changing her in the future to better suit the support role, do pls heavily consider what I have to say. Most players do only build AP on her even on the support role. They focus on doing damage while very few of us support Oriannas focus on utility! They can't provide this sort perspective/viewpoint I do. The very few people I discuss OriSupp and have this utility focused playstyle share more or less the same perspecive as I do and I'll be mentioning some below. What we love the about OriSupp is: - the 1100 range on her E's shield, - the fact that the shield is also a 9 second cooldown at all ranks is good and even more so now that Janna has 18 secs rank one shield), - the fact that the passive armor and MR her E provides remains on the target even if the shield breaks unlike Janna's AD boost. - the ball gives undeniable vision. (I could go on but I'll keep it short, she also feels rewarding to learn supporting) I hope if she ever gets optimized to be a good support that these remain unchanged as they are now. They're what distiguishes her from other supports and what I really love about her kit from a support utilit focus perspective. If these are changed, I will deeeeeeeeply regret having had this conversation of Support Orianna with you guys! Its like, I might aswell been quiet since no1 seems to play or care about her as a support, but I love her. EDIT: I played her mid and while I can also support my team, its just not the same thing, I'd rather be using her kit for utility at any given time in the game. I dont want to bothered to be the one expected to be dealing damage. The worst change she could see is turning into a Brand Support focusing on raw power/damage. {{champion:61}} Thank you so so so much for responding! And for the SS changes too <3
Appreciate you leaving a list of what you really like about the character here. Believe me, that is SUPER helpful info to have if we ever do any work on her to make her more viable in another role like support. Figuring out what certain players are attached to about a champion is a fantastic resource!
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: what is your thoughts on Brand {{champion:63}} ? I feel like this buff was just enough to restore the missing dmg from DfT. Do you guys think that a range increase on his E in order to help him in the late game could happen anytime? I feel like this hinders his performance in the mid / late game more than anything else, since he gets destroyed and outranged by almost everyone.
I think the buff is pretty sizable especially to support Brand. We've been seeing a lot more tanks (Ali/Braum/TK) pop up so the %hp could be a good reason to play him against that type of champion.
: Are you scared that the Skarner buffs may make him a tad too strong in favorable situations, while not really helping him in the situations where he already fails? Believe me, I love playing Skarner a lot, but these buffs feel a bit heavy handed without really fixing some of his issues (low mobility, telegraphed R, falling off late game, power discrepancy with spires and without). The extra stun duration kind of strikes me as "Here you go Skarner, if you get onto an enemy you can maul them for longer" but that never really was his problem if the Skarner has a proper build. His problem is actually getting to that enemy. Would've preferred something like more MS on W, or a stronger slow/faster projectile on E personally.
I think the best part about buffing his E is that it is an inherently fair spell. Not only do I have to land a skillshot, I also have to run up and auto them. That means that success cases are definitely stronger but playing against would not be nearly as frustrating as a world where Skarner can run people down with ease. We could have tried to shore up his weaknesses, but I'm not convinced that would have necessarily been a better approach.
: Hi Rioters, im a support main and having played every support champion (and many others), I found one I truly love to play as, it's {{champion:61}} I like shielding supports. And her support through the ball feels unique since I have to take in account her delay travel time of her of ball unlike a Lulu, Karma, or Janna's shield. Considering the effots to bring champs such as Zyra and Morg to both mid and support role, what is keeping the Lady of Clockwork from also being picked more often as a support mage/enchanter? Do the others supports just happen to do her job much better? I have this idea that just might be balanced in a way that it doesnt favor Orianna MID but helps her keep up with the other supports. - mana cost reduction of her E if she targets an ally, not herself. Woulnd't change Orianna midlane since they max QWE and wouldn't help her in weak unfavorable matchups (QEW). Any thoughts? I wanted an opinion on this pretty please. Thanks for doing everything you feel its best to make the gamr we love feel fun, enjoyable and rewarding, -Self proclaimed Support{{champion:61}} main Edit: wanted to add a Orianna Icon in there <3
I believe the idea behind bring Morgana and Zyra into the mid lane was more of an effort to give them power in a lane they were originally intended for. I'm personally all for having tools for Orianna to feel good about going bot lane, but we don't have any immediate plans for that as far as I'm aware.
: I leveled up hoping to get 1350 blue essense so I can unlock Udyr because I have enough rp for the godyr skin. But then I only got 1347 blue essense and I had to wait for tomorrow for the first win of the day. Can you make it if you're 10 blue essense away from a champion unlock point such as 450 1350 3150 4800 6300 You instantly get the blue essense you need to be able to unlock the champ?
This isn't really an area the playtest team has much insight/impact into.
: Any thoughts on skarner's buffs? How did it affected him, do we need more love?
.5s extra on a stun should be a decent boost in power. I think Skarner players should start experimenting with E max or 3 points Q into E max for the increased dame (some already do, but majority go Q). I don't think the mana does much to affect his overall power, but I never seem to have issues even when spamming spells off cooldown now. I think he should get to a much better spot with these changes. Will be interesting to see how the changes play out. I expect experienced Skarner players to really benefit from the E change while people who are less familiar and maybe max Q see less gains.
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umhUk7RnlnU&feature=youtu.be here is my new video and sorry i kept burping because i was really sick :C
I'm not sure I agree that AD scaling on his E would be a good direction for Nasus. First of all, I don't think that Nasus would be stronger if he were incentive to build damage over tank stats. Because of his Q stack and his juggernaut nature (as you pointed out) he needs to build tank to stay alive long enough to get off as many Q's as possible. Also, the AP scaling on his E opens up some alternate, more early game focused strategies, with Doran's rings and E max. I don't really want to live in a world where that is the optimal strategy for Nasus, but I do find it interesting, similar to Doran's ring start Sion (to give tanks a more impactful laning phase). I did watch the rest of your video, but its difficult for me to gain much from it because you have brought up issues with all of his abilities aside from W and power at various stages of the game. The best way to work here is to find one or two problem spaces that you believe Nasus has. Don't figure out how to fix those yet, just identify them. Then we can talk about hypothetical changes to meet those goals. I'd prefer if we proceeded with text replies rather than video so we can communicate more quickly :)
: Just some small commentary on your replies i think this what people really want to see from Rioters, people who put a lot of effort in to creating in depth posts that aren't ranty/ragey getting noticed by Riot. Even though you acknowledged you cant necessarily act upon this data and thoughts just having being acknowledged and passed around designers is good enough imo. Just feels good to be heard and discussing
: so what do you think about my video :3 Riot ENDER L
Sorry it took a while to reply! But I finally got a chance to watch the whole video. I do agree with you that the E damage does feel low in the late game, but that is partially because his Q becomes so much more powerful compared to other abilities in the game. I'd love you to explain here a little bit more about Nasus versus tanks. I am by no means a Nasus main, but his kit has a lot of tools to be able to deal with tanks. You go over that in the video and say that his E and R are not enough. What tanks does he actually lose to in the late game? His sustain from passive and tank shredding abilities should make him able to win out against them in a side lane. You brought up Maokai and that he gets hard-countered by Nasus. I agree (and that matchup was picked a few times in the Korean pro scene this year). Why is he hard-countered but not other tanks? I'd love to keep talking with you about this to try and understand a little bit more.
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Ender L,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xu1PzAvO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-12-13T12:27:25.956+0000) > > I&#x27;ll pass this along and see what some other people think :D Hello. I apologise if i'm bothering you, but could i get to know the opinions of your colleagues about my thread? I'd be very interested in what they had to say about it :)
Sorry for not following up sooner. Syndra is on our radar at the moment, although I don't believe there are any changes planned soon. Showed your post to a few other playtesters/designers. Can't promise your post will end up affecting anything, but the information is out there!
: Dont forget Perfect Timing for that extra Zhonyas CDR! With cosmic insight thats a 20% CDR on Zhonyas! Plus you also save 300g can can use the stopwatch, so you can delay Zhonyas abit if needed
Yeah, there's a bunch of choices in the Inspiration tree that Fiddle loves!
: For people struggling with Fiddlesticks atm
Cool post! I'd also recommend checking out Unsealed Spellbook. The summoner spell CDR for Flash gives you more frequent access to the backline and engage potential. It also makes your laning phase significantly safer if you have your Flash up more frequently to avoid getting ganked (you can reach a THREE MINUTE cooldown on Flash with Spellbook/Cosmic Insight/Lucidity Boots!!). Switching from Smite (if jungle) to Ghost in the later game too makes you very difficult to peel away!
: wow QwQ i never thought you would say that to me TwT. you mind if i can make a video and upload it on youtube and get my points across there and ill link you after 1 hour?
: damm when i made a nasus in depth post you guys didnt say shit i played nasus more than 2000 times and im diamond3 i am the worlds 29th best nasus was the 1st best nasus before and you guys seems to hate juggernauts and bruisers alot and care about champs that are already broken? Riot ENDER L im very dissapointed in you
: An in-depth analysis of Syndra's Q duration and her R's "windows of power" by a 950k Syndra main
It's clear you put a lot of effort into this post which I appreciate (bonus is that I agree with what you're saying!). I like the terminology you're using with "windows of power" and agree that the uptime on her orbs is one of the must frustrating parts of playing against her. Mainly the case where she just stacks them in a bush and waits for someone to walk close enough to combo. I'll pass this along and see what some other people think :D
: Top 3 favourite champions character/lore wise? Always curious about non-game opinions. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}}
Kennen, Rek'Sai, Nidalee. Cute. Scary alien thing. Cat lady.
Diva (NA)
: is there anything planned for quinn and why is ender so handsome? also when will the club size increase plz answer {{sticker:sg-janna}}
meetface (NA)
: For sure, I'm just trying to make sure you're considering all angles with Teemo, just seen a lot of AP style talk in the thread, wanted to give a balanced perspective. I would love if AP Teemo was viable, it's just too easily countered by very cheap and effective items (like sweepers). If you would be able to revert back sweeper's effect of disabling shrooms, or even seeing them in the first place, it would definitely make AP Teemo more viable. I think Control Wards still having the effect they do would still give counterplay against Teemo shrooms, just doesn't make it impossible when you play against more organized teams with sweepers in their current form. But that would be a balancing thing you guys would have to test, it's hard to say what exact changes would be best, but starting with that would be good. Can't tell you how annoying it is to spend 3 min shrooming up an objective like baron or elder late game only for the team to rotate with three sweepers and a control ward on top, jg and support and clear the entire area in less than 10 seconds. It means you essentially have to use AP Teemo to only burst backline and you can forget about blowing up the tanks top and jg. Oh, and you're Teemo. So good luck getting to the back line against competent opponents.
An interesting idea. Could be that sweeper's should only show the outline of shrooms (similar to champions) and not actually reveal them. So people can play around them but not kill them.
: As i'm hyped for the new runes, unfortunately i won't be able to immediately get my hands on them, since from november 5th i'll be moving to orlando, for about a year :(, do you know how much should it be the minimum cost for a laptop that can run LoL @ 60fps? I love ad skarner for the same exact thing. However at my elo, you need to be tanky to find your place in a game most of the time :( lastly do you know if skarner is going to get some work to make him less dependant on his crystal/adding skill expression (other than hitting E, map/matchup knowledge)? still thanks for your time !
Sorry to hear that. I'm not a computer genius, but I'm pretty sure most machines can run LoL decently. I don't think any work is being done on Skarner at the moment :(
Kaeblen (NA)
: I've been playing with the idea of giving Teemo's passive to Skarner. It's not because it fits Skarner. It's that it fits a burrowing Scorpion. Very little of Skarner's kit actually reflects that he's a giant scorpion. The theme of nostalgic ancient is down, but the giant bug part is suffering.
Dr Drevan (EUW)
: I don't necessarily disagree but there's this problem where like....mm, you don't just have to be better than the other player/team to counter them, you have to be miles ahead. In order to put down deep vision safely, you need to have very good map awareness, basically approximate her route in your head anyway, plan your own route to make tradeoffs in both gank options and farming efficiency, all leaving you open to being collapsed on if you walk near a ward. And all because the other player picked that character. It has nothing to do with how they play her. By picking her they suddenly significantly increased the skill gap required to just go even. It's like playing vs Balrog in SFV. You can outguess him, pressure him, mix him up, but if he lands one TAP combo into v-trigger it's 2/3 of your health gone because he picked Balrog. And on top of that, it's an even higher level of "I did everything right, I put my control wards in good places, I warded the gromp so I knew when she was in my area, I read her CS so I could know which camps she's done, but, because she's stealth and one of my teammates didn't do everything perfectly, she now has 2 kills up and I'm counting the seconds until 15:00" than normal with snowballing. Not only do you need to be playing at a much higher level than the Eve needs to be, but the rest of your team does as well or else it's shaft city regardless. Which is a general complaint about league but significantly amplified vs stealth junglers.
Valid concerns, and I can sympathize from my own experiences playing against her internally. I will say that she still does have some weaknesses that players are going to have to learn how to exploit. I already mentioned lack of stealth pre-6, but her charm also telegraphs her position. That leaves room for enemies to ready themselves before she fully commits. Her Q also does significantly less damage if she misses Q1. So while yes, playing against any stealthed assassin can make you want to pull your hair out, new Evelynn has openings that players will need to learn to try and level the playing field.
Shroom (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Ender L,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WW7iBAgw,comment-id=000d0000000100010000000000040000,timestamp=2017-10-11T17:05:22.785+0000) > > I like Teemo too > {{champion:17}} Sorry, I posted this somewhere else in this thread but I thought I should post it as a reply to you as it'll be easier to see this way. I would very much prefer Teemo to become a full Marksman/Assassin over a Map Control champion. A Teemo roaming the enemy jungle looking for footsteps sounds to me like suicide, just send one or two enemies and Teemo is dead. Not only does he lose cs and gold by being in the enemy jungle, he also doesn't have the best dueling potential or stars to survive a fight until very late in the game. Shrooms have become so weak and irrelevant thanks to the reductions on their duration, high mana costs, damage nerfs, and Red Trinkets that they usually are just a tool for vision and feel extremely unrewarding even if someone happens to touch one as the damage is not even that great unless you itemize for them, putting you at an enourmous disadvantage when it comes to Team Fights or Dueling enemies. I started playing in 2013 and immediately fell in love with Teemo and how cute and annoying he was. I actually played him from whichever level I got him from (2-4) and have played him ever since. As a matter of fact, I learned how to play League by playing Teemo with a touchpad and not a mouse, so him and I have been through a lot. I have always disliked how unreliable his shrooms are compared to other champions' and would prefer if they were changed for a better, more interesting and reliable, and less niche ultimate. Teemo has never been the "Swift Scout" and his Shrooms aren't what defines him either. It's his cuteness and ability to turn autoattackers useless with his blind as he spams laugh. He is a little devil and his personality should emphasize the idea of being cute and cuddly while being your worst nightmare. I also think Teemo is a lot more fun to play when you can actually fight other enemies head on by kiting them and juking, and saying "Size doesn't mean everything" over their dead bodies. THAT is what makes Teemo fun to me. That, agaisnt all odds, the little guy has won against the scariest creatures and people from Runeterra. That is the most satisfying thing about Teemo in my opinion. I have a couple ideas for what would be my ideal version of Teemo: -Like Corki, have his damage dealt changed into Magic Damage to allow him to buy AD items and crit from them as Magic Damage. -W is a movement speed passive active with a dash like Lucian's that lowers it's cooldown on auto attacks to emphasize dueling/dealing consistent dps to enemies OR that cleanses CC/Slows on Teemo. -Stacking poison, with a bonus effect at a certain number of stacks. Bonus effect could be something crippling just like poison in the real world. Some examples of that could be Magic resist reduction, damage dealt reduction, some sort of slow, a vision radius reduction like Quinn's, or auto stealth Teemo from that poisoned enemy for a few seconds. Teemo's poison is more defining than his ultimate yet it feels too weak since it's damage doesn't stack/tick faster/immediately/damage stays the same and extra numbers of attacks just refresh the duration and nothing else. -New Ultimate. I think it would be cool if Teemo transformed into some sort of monstrous version of himself (Rabies? Roid rage? Bloodlust? Cute but deadly?) and gained more attack speed, more damage, more movement speed, and slow resistance to push him into an all in monster that would show off his alter ego of an adorable little yordle from Hell. -Better stealth, movespeed in brush, lingering stealth when out of brush, bonus damage when coming out of stealth to attack. -A Quinn-like blind that reduces vision radius. -525-550 attack range -This would drive Teemo towards a marksman role/assassin role that is just what the cute little angel from Hell deserves to be. Top lane is not good to poor Teemo anymore. Gone are the days were enemies would cry if they played against you. Now they just have to bait your blind and all in you and boop, you're gone. Ekko, Maokai, Nasus, Fiora, Riven, Trundle, Renekton, Jayce, Pantheon, Swain, Vladimir, etc. have no issues dealing with current Teemo, they just need one item (bramble vest, spectre's cowl, thornmail, ninja tabis, adaptive helm, phage) to make you completely irrelevant. And not even level 6 can dave you from that because shrooms have such a heavy mana cost and low damage that all they do is tickle the enemy as they either walk through them and dive you under turret, or they just flat out avoid them, red trinket them, pink ward them, leaving you with an outdated blind to protect yourself against them and with a passive movement speed that disappeared as soon as you got hit. Leaving you no choice than to flash around the turret with the hopes that it'll kill the enemy champion which 99% of the time it doesn't and you end up dead anyways while the enemy champion that would've cried years ago still has 50% health left and is now pushing the wave, denying you even more gold and experience. Teemo needs to either go to the botlane where he can rely on a support to help him out and where he can deal with other squishy champions like himself, or to the jungle, with a dueling kit to deal with the likes of Elise, Sejuani, Lee Sin, Mundo, etc, etc, etc, who also can delete him before he's able to say "Never Underestimate the Power of Satan" where he can farm relatively safely and come out as a battle hardened veteran with some mental issues after all the things he's seen in the jungle.
I have to say, I like your take on Teemo: "The Cute Little Angel from Hell." I'm not sure if a transform ult would be the best way to go; we already have Gnar. But committing more to the devil-in-disguise persona would be a fun route to go for sure! I think that, at least stylistically, Teemo in the jungle would be more appealing to me personally. Teemo going rogue and popping up to gank lanes or fight the other jungle sounds more interesting and would limit players' frustration that they already have with laning Teemo. That being said, this is all hypothetical, just a fun discussion to have. So what do you think fits him best?
Dr Drevan (EUW)
: Honestly I'm not convinced about the Eve rework. Stealth is a bad mechanic and it's always caused game health problems since pre S1. (Ya'll remember perma-stealth + stacking sunfire capes?) Because it's a weird sort of snowballing mechanic. It lets you convert your advantage into a bigger advantage with more reliability than basically any other mechanic in the game. Look at Twitch now. Don't get me started on Shaco. I see what you guys were trying to do with invis vs stealth but I honestly think the problems still exist. Eve not getting stealth until 6 is nice I guess but it still means that starting 6, she just feels out your control ward (if you have one, or her laner tells you where) and then walks into your lane and obliterates you. It's the same problem with Shaco etc. It completely changes how you play the game even if she's nowhere near you or not very strong. Just having stealth on your team puts a ton of pressure on the enemy players even if your stealther has flippers in place of hands. Also means you can't really catch them with counter jungle wards etc unless you watch a camp and see them. I dunno I guess what I'm saying is that I don't feel like this actually improved the situation in a concrete way. More just band-aided it. Her ult is cool though.
Stealth is for sure a frustrating mechanic to play against. But I have found that the best way to deal with new Eve is pressuring her in her jungle pre level 6. She loses 1v1 to most other junglers during that window, and doesn't have an escape without her ult. Rek'Sai is her strongest counter in my opinion. If you try to invade her at level 3 and keep up that aggression, you can put down deep vision to spot her farming and alert your allies of the general area of where she's at.
meetface (NA)
: Not sure what happened, but I made a reply that didn't seem to get posted. The gist was basically Teemo's kit seems fine as it allows for a lot of diversity in builds and playstyles. Pigeon holing Teemo in to just playing AP would be disasterous at higher elos since he's a split pushing duelist with little impact in teamfights outside of well placed shrooms that is too easily conterable through sweepers, CW, and MR items (like adaptive helm). Which is why at higher elos, on-hit Teemo is the most viable option. If you rework him to play around only the AP style of shroom damage through AP, I fear he'll basically be unplayable above Plat. IMO, his Q, E and R are ok and nothing really needs to be changed. His W is very underwhelming and for an escape ability is not really effective. I think a buff to W, adding a passive where he gets a zz'rot-like speed boost around his shrooms would help. Even a full rework of W to make it an actual escape of some kind would be best.
Hey, I just wanted to remind you that the discussion here is all hypothetical. If there was a way to make his shrooms not as easily counterable, would you be open to a focus on his shrooms and AP Teemo? Or do you just prefer the on-hit style significantly more?
: I think the "Beaten Path" and "Big Shrooms" should be in **any** Teemo rework, and i think the "Beaten Path" passive should be on his **R**, further emphasizing _This is what you should be using to place your Shrooms_ ... the beaten path really fits the Scout part of Teemo's identity and it feels like **AH! this is what teemo was missing** ... and the Big Shrooms give Teemo players more decisions to make (and we all know how much Riot loves to give players more decisions) and it gives Teemo players the opportunity to really **blow shit up** So basically whatever other changes are decided plus: R: -"Beaten Path" -Big Shrooms To a much lesser degree, i like the "Trip Wire" idea: how it fits the "Scout" theme, supports the Map Control that Teemo players love. BUT i am unsure whether i like it being tied to Trinkets or if it should be its own ability (swap "Poison Darts" over to Pass and scales with Level/AP, and make E-Trip Wire with no mana cost, like Ashe's E) ... i am undecided on that one, but i still like the idea. ???? -"Trip Wire" All other changes, i am on the fence whether they would be good/bad/fit Teemo's theme. I really like Map Control Teemo, but i would hate for Teemo to lose the few laning strengths he has in order to buff that ideal, **so** i only mention the ones that dont make Teemo's kit stronger **directly** but also dont make him more likely to be weaker in lane. Basically, _i dont know what im talking about,_ and i dont want to just say "keep all these abilities and then give teemo 3000 starting HP" because thats gonna be impossible to balance, so i only mention a few things that dont feel game breaking. I like Teemo {{champion:17}}
I like Teemo too {{champion:17}}
: Thank You for relpying! oh don't tell me, i've been playing him nonstop since the day i bought him, in late s3 :D (apart some periods of playing xerath :D) Can't wait for the new runes to come out and try them! How do you think i will do in live by building warriors>triforce>sterak's? it actuall makes sense, sterak's acts like a good bandaid before buying tankier items, at least in my perspective! i'm a fan of warrior skarner too, however right now i'm doing well by building cinderhulk>triforce>full tank, damage is still good (also you get some nice mixed damage with immolate) and you're a bit tankier. however it takes alot of farm to get the triforce lately. What do you think?
For sure, cinderhulk + triforce + tank works and is probably pretty good in a lot of situations, but I think that the rune Predator make AD Skarner even more attractive (and I personally prefer to hard carry games with TONS of damage). I'd say that Skarner's builds can vary based on how the game is looking, but no one anticipates the kind of damage that AD Skarner can do.
: Alright, that's disappointing but good to know, thanks so much for finally putting my mind to rest. Time to go back to trying to assemble a formula for Morgana W damage to a given target.
I'm by no means a Morgana player, but I'd think your best bet is Arcane Comet. Your root guarantees it and I don't think she can proc Electrocute very well or benefit from the other options much.
: I hate this suggestion only because Quinn-blind is a horrible type of CC. Its effect is unnoticeable for the Quinn player, but very crippling for the affected player.
I agree the frustration goes up significantly (similar to Graves W), but it also opens up more matchups to Teemo. The total blind has effectiveness against all characters, not simply auto-attackers.
Thryale (NA)
: aye, for sure. Also, just a bit of clarification, when I read the "quinn blind + stealth" I first thought when you push the button you fire a dart and instantly vanish for some quick bamboozlement. but after reading the post that gave you the idea I see I had it in reverse, when using the ability _from_ stealth gain bonus quinn blind. I personally prefer my interpretation, but the other idea isn't terrible. EDIT: also, to reiterate, I absolutely _LOVE_ the tripwire idea and want to see it in the game nao!! :P (heck, just having a consumable ward item called "trip wire" would be great. I rely so much more on audio cues rather than the mini map that if I had that ward, I'd be so much more prepared for incoming ganks than I am atm.
My idea is that the blind always function how Quinn's functions. Just that when the blind expires on the target Teemo gets stealth for X seconds. So they are blinded and can't immediately see Teemo even when it times out.
Siachi (NA)
: I'm probably the weird one, and I don't play Teemo, so I should *NOT* be trusted with anything regarding a theoretical rework. But I think it'd be cool if he was reworked to be a jungler in mind. Roaming around the map, doing things like setting traps for monsters (Or enemy junglers), and popping up out of nowhere to attack sounds like a jungler, and fits the Scout theme more than sitting toplane and making people sad. (No I'm not making this suggestion just to get Teemo out of toplane, i swear I think it might be a cool direction to take his kit!) >_> And I sort of thought it'd be interesting to make his Shrooms into a basic ability instead of his ultimate. They might need to be made less powerful, but you could give them more interaction with the rest of his kit, or add new cool stuff to them to compensate!
I know that there are quite a few jungle Teemo players out there so changes would probably have to keep that in mind. I'm definitely with you though that a scout does thematically seem better suited to the jungle. I'm personally against moving Teemo's shrooms to a basic ability, if only to give the enemy team a clear window where they can try to punish him before they get crushed by shrooms on their way to gank.
Thryale (NA)
: lots of good ideas, for sure. a couple of combinations that stand out to me would be: Ultimate map control teemo: P: Beaten Path (sees a 'heat map' of trafficked area to aid shroom placements) Q: Quinn-style blind + mini stealth (1-2 secs) (I _love_ this idea btw) W: speed boost + cleanse (maaaybe a mini-stealth if power budget allows) E: mini minefield (4 min duration, can have as many out with no innate limit) R: Big shrooms this is the ultimate "You're in my house now!" teemo kit, his laning will probably suffer as he loses the easy last hitting his old E gave him, and if he uses E for farming, he'll be OoM fast. (teemo has a surpisingly shallow mana pool) but if teemo survives the laning phase, he will become a true terror once he sets up shop in the enemy's jungle with both minefields and shrooms providing him ample early warning signs, the best way to catch a teemo is coming at him straight on thru lane. Or for something more mechanically similar to what already exists in league: Duelist/team-fight Teemo: P: Stackable poison Q: Normal blind (blinding the adc is _massive_ in teamfights) W: move speed boost + tactical stealth (allows for better positioning and escapes in hectic teamfights E: dart barrage (allows teemo to better contribute to team fights as his ult usually has too long of an arming delay to actively use in a fight that travels quickly) R: normal shrooms OR big shrooms (whatever the power budget allows) Of these 2, I think the first really sells a core theme/identity better, but players may struggle utilizing it properly. If we are okay with teemo remaining a niche pick, this is fine. The second option, imo, feels a bit more 'modern' and allows for more active skill expression and contribution to one's team but still has the same issue with not being a particularly strong "identity" but, I feel it would make teemo more attractive to a wider audience and would be easier to learn and play. Personally, I'd probably opt for the first one just because I like the concept better. It's not a perfect design, but it's got a lot of potential if iterated upon.
I'm with you that #1 is my preferred option (Love that you grouped them stylistically btw). I think that if Teemo were to get changes to W/E he'd probably need more base mana/scaling. Right now the only spell that has a noticeable mana cost in lane is the Q and if he got an E with a mana cost, he would probably need adjustments regardless.
Cosnirak (NA)
: Imagine Teemo + Taliyah ganking bot lane together... Do I need to wash my hands now? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Cosnirak (NA)
: I much prefer AP Teemo (#deleteGunbladefromthegame) over mixed or AD/on-hit. I wonder if some slight changes to his attack speed and reducing the base instant damage on his E as part of allowing it to combo with other abilities would keep him from building on hit, possibly in combo with AP ratio changes (don't want him to instantly delete people as AP either though). I could see buffing the R slow just never working out and maybe something else would be better. As far as complexity goes I think Teemo is rather simple to play mechanically atm (part of why I like him), so much so that he could grow slightly in that regard and still be fairly simple. That said, perhaps just two different ability combos, as opposed to four like Brand has, would be correct. I'm mostly fond of stealth+Q=blind like Quinn and stealth+E=more poison damage (especially if it lets Riot lower his frequent lane harass with just E because that's boring, unhealthy play when strong).
Glad to see I'm not alone! I wouldn't mind seeing him become slightly more difficult to execute with either. Let me know if you have any more cool ideas!
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Ender L

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