Antenora (EUW)
: Nerf this busted shit first then consider buffing defense. https://i.gyazo.com/4a1d26234f321cfac84426890ad80159.png
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FYVFzcm0,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-17T11:10:23.397+0000) > > Nerf this busted shit first then consider buffing defense. > > https://i.gyazo.com/4a1d26234f321cfac84426890ad80159.png I mean he's not wrong
: "There is no females in Esports" - SC2 Disagrees.
Then you find out that it's a %%%%%% and that it's really a guy. People who don't think there are differnces between men and women in multiple ways are just delusional. Gender dysphoria is litterally classified under the same mental disorders as anorexia. Where people "feel fat" and want to get skinner. We don't take the anorexic person and try and make them skinner to make them feel comfortable there are ways to help them with there mental disorder. The same thing is true for the majority of those who suffer from gender dysporia. Even without any specific treatment to help the mental disorder about 90%+ of male and female dysphoria goes away by itself if people don't give them hormone suppresors and many people who get this treatment later regret it. You can even find people who didn't regret it until they were like 60 then they realized what they lost and then heavily regret it. It isn't loving to give those with gender dysphoria "acceptance" meaning primarily to ignore all the drawbacks and encourage them to go through with it even though we know they will probably regret it later on at some point in there life whether a year later or decades later. But it's loving to get them to an actual doctor who tries to treat the underlying mental problems that cause this. This is the same treatment people get when they feel like there arm doesn't belong to them and want it cut off. We don't go along with that and cut it off we treat the underlying mental problems of the person so that they feel comfortable with there body (arm). Now im not saying that we should bash transgender people but we definetly shouldn't encourage it and even frown on it not out of hatred but because it's the best thing for the people who do suffer to be given right treatment and not be blinded by people who try and say everything will be fixed if they get certain surgeries or hormone suppresors which have permanent affects. Most gender dysporia comes from several things - a temporary confusion from puberty which goes away after puberty is done if they aren't given hormone suppressors. - isolation or abuse/disconnect from parents - if there mother has a mental disorder or two the odds of a child suffering from gender dysporia increases massively.
ExpStealer (EUNE)
: Guess you're the one who got melted this time {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} On a more serious note - you were fighting a teamcomp with 3/5 people having innate healing and a Nami, who also has a healing ability, and you didn't even bother to purchase even an {{item:3123}}, not to mention upgrading it to {{item:3033}}? And then you complain about balance being bad and that everyone heals back up your DPS? Next time itemize for the situation instead of using a generic build. What I would've bought in this situation is the following: {{item:3124}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3033}} {{item:2140}} Hells, you could even pick {{item:3146}} instead of {{item:3046}} for your sixth item for the AD + AP and the additional sustain from it. That way both your passive and basic attacks gain a boost in damage and you'll be healing for 10% + 15% + 15% = 40% of physical and 15% of magical damage dealt, even if that's reduced vs Nasus because of {{item:3075}}.
> [{quoted}](name=ExpStealer,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=IXOwsELf,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-01-24T17:45:37.724+0000) > > Guess you're the one who got melted this time > {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} > > On a more serious note - you were fighting a teamcomp with 3/5 people having innate healing and a Nami, who also has a healing ability, and you didn't even bother to purchase even an {{item:3123}}, not to mention upgrading it to {{item:3033}}? And then you complain about balance being bad and that everyone heals back up your DPS? Next time itemize for the situation instead of using a generic build. What I would've bought in this situation is the following: > {{item:3124}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3033}} {{item:2140}} > > Hells, you could even pick {{item:3146}} instead of {{item:3046}} for your sixth item for the AD + AP and the additional sustain from it. That way both your passive and basic attacks gain a boost in damage and you'll be healing for 10% + 15% + 15% = 40% of physical and 15% of magical damage dealt, even if that's reduced vs Nasus because of {{item:3075}}. you do realize that Stormrazor/Rageblade/Runaans is core on Kaisa Then she went IE and then GA prob cause yasuo and kayne were one shotting her and mortal reminder is totally not worth it especially since the mid laner had morellenomicon. Tbh I think they lost because it was a normal game and yi didn't seem to do well and a possible scenario where they lose is leona and rakan were engaging fights with master yi and getting killed by illoai and yasuo ect and dieing instead of just taking turrets and peeling while nasus and maybe illoai just split push the entire game. Which they can't really answer because leona top doesn't stop split pushes and master yi is like 4/14/6 and can't stop the split push either.
Rioter Comments
: Suggestion: Swap 'Iron' and 'Bronze'
I played runescape in the past so it makes me think that it makes more sense for iron to be above bronze. Plus it would move some of the bronze people up ranks giving them more motivation to improve rather then lowering them down further ranks.
: Could have a Weaponmaster skin where his weapon changes every time he swings it.
I don't know about every time he swings but I think they could make it were everytime he lvls up or every 6 lvls he changes weapons.
Niaphim (EUW)
: The true MVP of Worlds 2017
it probably has 100% appearance in losing teams as well.
: Wolf gets a Flash RW Engage on Rakan.
despite what you think Rakan flash RW isn't hard to hit. It has literally a million fucking range. Also faker makes everything his team does even better so that's why he gets a lot of the credit.
Kloqdq (NA)
: Late Game Hyper Carries Thread
tbh whenever trist is meta it seems like the game is kinda messed up balance wise somewhere. Kog'maw seems fine most the time but this meta just fits him to well. Then even now jinx is still a bad champion but she did seem messed up when she was meta as well. Twitch I think isn't as bad as people imagine him to be but I think it's sort of the same as kog where the meta just fits to well and that's what really puts him over the top. I think vayne is alright. Honestly I think the adc's I like playing the most where corki, ezreal, graves, caitlyn. Caitlyn has in recent history been notorious for being overbearing but I think that's because she supressed things like vayne and trist and kog'maw and with ezreal corki and graves not being playable in bot lane anymore caitlyn can't really be meta without being to strong. Really the ideal meta would probably have caitlyn alongside ezreal and lucian, kalista bot lane and it would probably end with caitlyn or kalista being OP. Honestly I don't think theres anything wrong with kog'maw or vayne or any of the other hyper carry ad's but whenever there meta I think often times is a symptom of a huge problem somewhere else in the game. Even if these ad's weren't in the game Ad's the game would still have the same problems as it does now and in fact these hyper carries might even sort of be like a temporary band-aid fix to keep the problems from being larger and more evident. As out of the ideal adc's the most recent meta things have been Kalista which is currently op and caitlyn quite a while ago which was op and Draven which I don't think is necessarily an ideal meta ad but he's similar to the ideal ad's and he was a recent op pick. So I think the hyper carry adc's though in a way seems messed up they bandaid fix these other hyper snowbally adc's that would be terribly broken if allowed to reign free. Honestly I wonder what would happen if instead of a zeal item being the third ad item if LW was brought back as a third item what would happen. Or what would happen if Triforce was good again or if BT was a good 4rth item again possible after LW. Mages I think got nerfed inadvertently when LW and armor got nerfed because used to mages carried early because tanks bought armor to shutdown Ad damage and mages did a lot more but now that ad's don't need LW and armor is a bit weaker I think it brings the ad power spike forward a bit much and cuts some of the urgency and want for an AP carry early early to mid game. Though I think Riot knows a lot of this but they can't really change everything right before worlds so we'll have to see how the Rune update come along and see how things change with that and the few patches afterwords.
: Mages not getting armor.
everyones talking about champions not getting armor but are champions getting MR and if so how much in comparison to armor.
: Which marksmen though? Because the class is kinda diverse.....altho i myself find Twitch to be a massive pain. However most marksmen currently are just a pain in the ass because they use {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3031}} to deal burst in a manner proven to be very powerful, especially against squishies. But a few are genuinely only powerful because enchanters are strong, kog is such a case, he has never been good unless lulu or Janna also are as far as i can remember. So aside from static build, twitch and enchanters playing in a rather....stale but also powerful way that lets marksman avoid paying for their mistakes. But other than that i don't think any one of them in particular stands out as problematic.... Oh, except Vayne who is a abomination that ought to be permabanned, or at least prevented from playing with an enchanter. My few impressions as a semi{{champion:22}}main.
Riot could revert the LW changes then make tank items strong early then LW is good against them forcing ad's to build LW and that allows mages to be the strongest carries until at least when ad's get LW or another item after that. But I think they want games to go a bit faster so thats why LW so now there experimenting with the Rune update and will probably make changes based on what happens there.
Paroe (NA)
: @riot Can i have a question answered about why theres no support for DoT mages in the new runes?
ya cause there's absolutely no way Riot can find another way to balance some champions outside of runes. Right?
: I had a shock of my life yesterday, {{champion:11}} {{item:1419}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3111}} with 3 fire drakes on rank 3 ult, got facetanked by a {{champion:21}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3022}}. Granted, that extra 1 item was probably more of a factor than I expected, and because I ran the resolve tree for the tenacity so I missed out on Fervor. Probably might have won if I went more damage, but I already had near 300 AD on top of AS cap though. Not salty about it, but just more aware not to underestimate them again.
I mean thats 6 items against 3.5 items MR boots doesn't do shit to MF and Qss gives you some ad but other then that gives you nothing against her. While MF has 6 items that all work against you and BC and Frozen mallet is a lot of hp and PD helps a little bit and depending on the circumstances like if a lulu was right there which people tend to leave out things like that when talking on the boards it would be even worse for you.
ChuShoe (NA)
: {{champion:236}} He's literally been played mid more in my games than he's ever been played before, regardless of whether it's on my team or the enemy team.
so your not talking about the actual bot laner but the enemy your laning against then I could see how a lucian can win lane against you and kill you and then you might have hard time killing him.
: > [{quoted}](name=EkyonKun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NlEk6LNH,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-23T23:56:11.483+0000) > > No mages except those who need it are going to be building {{item:3157}} as a second item unless they're playing against {{champion:238}} or {{champion:91}}. It's more likely to be {{item:3285}}, {{item:3151}}, or {{item:3102}}. > So, on average, the first 3 items will usually amount to 7000-7200 gold. ive done the research hourglass is the 2nd most common built item on most mages and no one gets landries 2nd
Really I think one of the biggest reasons ad's are strong right now has a lot to do with first tower bonus gold which favors ad's sense there almost put in the game to help kill towers giving one of the ad's on either side a pretty big gold bonus. There I think are other reasons I have posted about but I think the first turret gold might need to be addressed in the future.
: Actually, corki R big one at lvl 16 has a 1.5 bonus AD ratio. twitch E fully stacked has a 1.5 AD bonus AD ratio, and Tristana E has about a 2.0 AD ratio on her fully stacked E (when maxed) as well.
is corki even considered a traditional marksmen anymore? Isn't he more like graves where no one considers him an ad. Also Corki has different build then whats in this post and twitch really can't do anything without his ult. Like legit without his Ult its like almost impossible to even AA a tank sense your range is so short. So Twitch E is useless without his ult the only exception being if he's fed and roaming earlly which doensn't happen as often anymore since Youmuus isn't his core anymore. Then I'll admit trist is fairly strong but she's still kinda the same in that in mid game she can really only kill targets that get out of position or hit a tank and she has to get quite a few hits off for her E dmg to scale up. To be honest maybe they should bring back trists old power spikes where she was strong early weak as all hell mid game and then strong again late when she gets 3 items and her Q and passive leveled.
: It's a semantic, but every champion in the game sans {{champion:429}} has at least one 100% AD ratio via their basic attacks, which can't be dismissed since some champions realistically have 0% AP scaling and get no value at all from AP, while any champion will lat least get basic attack damage via AD that can be multiplied with crit and attack speed. Barring that... All of these Marksmen have an AD Ratio specifically stated as 100% or higher total. {{champion:22}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:429}}{{champion:21}}{{champion:15}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:498}} --- Lucian has a 100% BONUS AD ratio, and Kogmaw can pass up 100% on targets below a certain health threshold. {{champion:236}} {{champion:96}} --- These four are the only ADCs who don't have an explicitly 100% AD Ratio in their kits somewhere. {{champion:42}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:29}} {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
I mean ad's have lower base stats and usefulness and by the time they get a lot of ad most those champions would rather just use AA's and the ones that don't are things like ezreal or kalista/MF who gets outscaled. Even then if there are two ad champion in a lane if one of them is 20% health it's usually pretty hard for them to just kill them unless they have no flash or heal but mid lane if your 80% health a lot of champions can just kill you. So even we twisted the scales a lot more the mages and assasains have a lot more kill pressure on there enemy laners and with coordination with there jungler becomes really high. and that's 1v1 and bot is usually 2v2 and a lot of the time even if your lane can just run in and kill the enemy most the time you have to be coordinated which is hard sense most NA supports suck unless the enemy messes up which is also somewhat likely sense NA supports suck and are often liable to just getting there lane screwed. Also then we have tanks which have more armor and sense in most games unless the enemy gets caught out ad's usually have to kill the tanks first so even if they have high scaling on there abilities it's sort of the same situation as mages seem to complain about on boards that if the enemy tank has one mr item there abilities become useless. Which it's even more true if the enemy has 3 tanks with several armor items. So even if ad's have higher skill scaling usually there only viable targets for most the teamfight is the tanks where mages have more ability to zone and to go in to kill X target or even hit the tank which your abilities are still more effective sense they will generally have less mr then armor and if they build a bunch of mr for some reason then your ad's will do more dmg.
: A full mage build cost about 17000 while an ADC cost 15000
thats because mages don't need items to be relevant to the game and there's more itemization for tanks against ad as opposed to mr as well. Also you mention shit about double kills but your in the middle of the map you influence the entire game a lot. Even when mid lane is in a weaker state which is never very weak compared to when other roles are weak your still influential because your in the middle of the map you can roam, your there at dragon and rift, if you pressure the lane your jungler has a lot more options in the game ect. Even if you 0/5 if you get levels your still relevant. You don't see junglers giving red and blue buffs to there supports or there top laners and even bot laners don't get the 2nd red buff only mid laners get that option and that's because they influence everything and is a role that always has impact. No matter how much you might whine the mid lane position has never been in a bad spot during the entire history of the game it has always been in the top 3 most impactful roles and you guys complain if any single class in that role goes to the number 3 spot. If mages get slightly less relevant and hard to carry with though still not harder then number 4 or 5 spot there's shit everywhere on the boards and then you guys then get angry at the spots that happen to be above you which rarely happens and think your number 3 spot compares to how shit it feels to be in the number 5 spot when the number 5 spot can at times be really really bad. Also despite what you think mid lane is the most wanted role in the game. Before the new matchmaking system where people now choose there roles before that and when supports where in the bad spot you almost never saw people fight over the jungle position or the top or even ad or if they fought it was rare but people would Mid or feed if they didn't get mid. Despite what you think Mid is strong and has always been strong and has the ability to choose about any number of champions in the mid lane depending on the meta so that even if some role like Top became broke as hell you can play tanks or bruisers mid, if mages are strong you can play them, if assasains you can play them, if utility is strong you can even play things that have good utility, Hell if adc's become to strong you can even play adc's mid. It's only rare meta's like this that mid is considered the third strongest role because usually if mid isn't the strongest it's the second strongest spot in the game. You think mid feels bad to play in now? I can tell you right now every single role in the game has been in worse spots and mid has often times been in better spots then pretty much every role because it almost always has several champions that are brain dead broken. Hell even when mid is the number 1 role mid laners complain that there counters are to strong and that Zed or some other shit like viktor are op. Mid is the most wanted role mid overall throughtout every season and meta has been the strongest role in the game Certain classes might be weak in the mid role at times but thats true for every lane EVERY lane. Hell even right now adc's are strong but a lot of lane bullies and spell type ad's like ezreal and caitlyn and corki aren't as viable as hyper carries and I don't see people whine about that. In the jungle there's almost always certain types of junglers that are op and you still barely see people complain about it even now when most junglers would rather play high dmg carries rather then tanks you barely see people complaining. Even top laners which have probably the most reason to complain sense there mostly melee champions separated from everyone else complain less. Plus adc's scale of items it makes sense for there items to be stronger or cheaper especially because ad's not only have to have better items to scale better which is kind of the attraction and how they become not useless but they also have to catch up to the fact that mages generally have stronger kits and better cc and better ways to kill people and follow up on shit. Also you happened to choose litterally the cheapest ad build you could fine. Take out the GA and replace it with like a BT or Maw or what if they build essence reaver or what about ad's that build black cleaver or triforce there not really played much right now but what about them. Now for the balance of the game Mages probably do need a buff and that I think is essential but the way people talk about it on boards in unproductive and rather silly. Mages need to be stronger, Tanks NEED to be forced to itemize mr items and then they have less armor items and this will allow for Riot to tone down adc damage without tanks being busted as all hell. Right now if Riot took down ad damage tanks would be unkillable but if there forced to get more mr and have less armor then even with less ad damage on adc's they would be able to be effective in teamfights without having to have so much damage. Tanks could still be in a good spot and adc's can have there damage lowered some and then with the fact that things like ezreal or corki would be able to play a game without fear of the tanks scaling to the point they can't deal with so fast will allow them to take a breather. Right now if say an ezreal wins lane bot it's hard for him to kill tanks as effectively as say a kog'maw. So if they throw the game even a slight amount it can make the game really hard. But if tanks are forced to get MR then ezreal can win lane and not be shutdown by tanks so hard and give them more power to abuse an enemy who tries to play something like trist or kog'maw bot. These champions are tank busters and if you take away the neccesity to have a tank buster to kill tanks then it will allow for more variety and allow for the ezreal to abuse the hyper scaling and infinity edge building ad's Right now adc's have to have a shit ton of damage to deal with tanks. Adc's might seem op to mid laners or to certain players but to tanks there still for the most part only slightly strong because the only reason adc's are allowed to have that much damage is they have to have that much damage to bust the tanks. Tanks can build so much armor it's ridiculous. Right before all the balance seemed to be getting weird there were games were people would play malphite and stack 500 or more armor and then you would just be useless as all hell. I think if the game needs some changes mages need to be stronger and MR needs to be more readily available to tanks and bruisers so that they have more then just spirit visage as a viable MR item. Then of mages and tanks are balanced they keep assasains in check so that there not just dumping on everything and this allows adc's to just fit right in. Ideally assasains would be stronger if the enemy team has slightly less tanky team or the enemy has a hyper carry with the condition that the enemy laner is also a favorable matchup for the assasain or has good synergy with X jungler. Then if several of those things aren't there mages would be dominate.
GigglesO (NA)
: That feeling when adc's are crowding out midlane...
Most lucians I see feed, I almost never see any corki's, do people even play varus mid anymore and I only saw one ez mid and that was when he was first buffed and he fed.
: reminds me when adc's got reworked, had ADC's top, jungle, mid, bottom and even as support and adc mains were like ''lolz I don't see da problemz''
I mean it's kinda hard for people to take it serious when they say bot lane is op when everyone else is playing the same champions. So I mean it might be true but if everyone is playing the op champions why is the single role singled out.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Princesś,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=YaxArou9,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2017-09-22T16:48:28.986+0000) > > Why would I screen shot it? It should be obvious to everyone people add people just because they are girls. Seems like you are one of them Why would you mention it? Why should it be obivious? Currently i have yet to see proof of this bullshit stereotype. I have made a LOT of girl characters, also have many in my guild, that has never happened ever from what i have seen. Its just a stereotype that is being perpetuated for attention. Also, are you a mind reader since you know how i think? Because i never add anyone over a nickname. Who cares what you have between your legs? NOONE!
> [{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=YaxArou9,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2017-09-22T17:07:32.072+0000) > > Why would you mention it? Why should it be obivious? Currently i have yet to see proof of this bullshit stereotype. I have made a LOT of girl characters, also have many in my guild, that has never happened ever from what i have seen. Its just a stereotype that is being perpetuated for attention. > > Also, are you a mind reader since you know how i think? Because i never add anyone over a nickname. Who cares what you have between your legs? NOONE! I had a starcraft account years ago and had several people think I was a girl and then unfriend me when I told them otherwise.... So I know it happens. I actually never knew this was a sterotype... I never even heard of other people having this happen to them until now.
Ultrios (NA)
: So exhausted with being asked for my role.
: Considering DD and PD + any one more bit of lifesteal that ADC can and will survive the Syndra R. And can we finally stop claiming the nonsense that a Syndra R alone can kill about anyone already?
you know you have to hit someone for pd to work and if anyone is building PD and DD on any adc right now exept for some niche game it means there shit. Like even Draven doesn't build DD much, he really only builds BT for the most part and the only champion that really builds PD everygame if Kalista I think. Which Kalista builds it often as a third item. Then DD is also viable on kalista in some games as well but thats usually like a 5th 6th item thing and kalista is usually shit by the time a game gets to that point.
: basic title mentioning adcs being op
Just a random comment passing by and eating popcorn. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: That's the hidden MMR penalty you suffer in diamond. Somehow riot doesn't think they should mention this. As soon as you enter diamond your MMR takes a huge hit and you need a couple of games to get good LP gains again. Unless ofc you already have inflated D3+ MMR when you enter diamond then you are guaranteed to get there. Rn i'm getting 20 lp in d4 which is actually very good but give me one or two loss and i'm back at 15 lp lul. It just makes it artifically hard to climb in this elo.
I mean from diamond 5 onward it's hard because each rank has a lot less players then the previous rank. So like dia 5 through challaneger has like top 2% of players and diamond 5 has like 1.5% of that and then diamond 4 has a huge portion of the remaining and it keeps going so that sense everyone is kinda funneling in at the top you will lose more lp then you gain and you have to raise your mmr to compete with the people who have been there a long time and already have high mmr. high elo is pretty much a fight between the top players in getting the even higher spots. You lose more lp then you gain unless you get high mmr but everyone else there is also fighting in the same way and only the best can break through to higher ranks. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution/na
: Twitch needs an attack speed growth nerf and his stealth duration reduced by 2 seconds at all ranks
I mean if they nerfed anything on twitch it would probably be a bit of range of his ult. so if they took like 15-25 range off. Though i'm not sure if that would be the right thing because he would miss a lot of kills and even just a little bit of range increase helps his safety in overall teamfights as he has no dashes or any reason to really play twitch without his ult.
: Remember the time Ashe's secondary role was OFFICIALLY "Support"? Those were dark times
I mean teemo's officially a marksmen even now but no one plays him as an adc. I don't think ashe support has ever been an op pick. Hell I don't even think it's been meta before at most I believe it's just been somewhat viable.
: so? ezreal is in the jungle right now because he's worthless in botlane. > the mages played toplane almost never see play mid. I've seen Cass, Swain and vlad top and mid. > The Tanks who are played as support are borderline useless everywhere else. The Bruisers who are played in the jungle are played there, because they cant lane. There's still tanks/bruisers/mages/assassins in multiple lanes though. > Assassins are a joke right now. not relevant to their positions
I mean you can only play adc's in bot lane. you can play assasains or mages or some semi-adcs like corki/lucian or even sometimes bruisers in mid lane you do know not every single role has to be viable and op in mid lane for mid lane to be balanced right and even if you can only play mages or some other thing in mid at some point in time you also have to remember that's usually the same for every other lane as well. Then when junglers or any other role other then mid are able to play a champion even remotely similar to the traditional champions played in other roles people lose there minds. Like you just said bot is op because only adcs are viable there now mid lane is weak because you can only play mages there right now? Also the adc's played top mid and jungle are all usully very differnt from the ones played bot and even the adc's that are played mid are usually differnt from the ones played in the jungle and top and the ones played top are usually differnt from the ones played in the jungle as well. The thing about mid is that if adc's really do become strong you can play an adc mid if bruisers are strong you can play bruisers mid. If assasains are strong you can play them. Get my drift. Then not only are they strong but sense mid lane is a really strong place to be and effects the whole map a lot of the time those champions and roles can even at times be stronger mid than they are in there own role.
GigglesO (NA)
: Notice how high of damage those guys were... I honestly think we could just nerf damage across the board by 10%
then people complain about assasains being weak. Really right now the only weak role are assassins the game is fine right now.
GigglesO (NA)
: because of the damage over time, and soak that you have, you didn't see season 2 mundo did you?
but then they just kite you like people do with nasus and mundo. Also if all you had to do all game was build tanky and run at the enemy team that doesn't really give you the ability to carry or do anything better or differently then the other tank on the enemy team doing the same thing. You have to give tanks CC or a way to impact the map like shen or pretty good laning capabilities or there's no reason to play them unless there op.
: > [{quoted}](name=skyskee008,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aayZo6K3,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-13T13:17:37.544+0000) > > These guys probably don't remember the "tank meta" of season 5/some of 6 lmao. > > They're acting like it was "slow drawn out fights". Not: Mundo running through 3 towers and diving you/killing you just as fast because of how much damage his E gave. > > Or not: If the enemy team got an early kill you literally couldn't look at your tower because Towers didn't effect Volibear/Udyr/Poppy after 1 item. > > Or not: every single champion was built better as tank because tank items were so busted. > > Yeah, it wasn't inherently a problem in Ekko's kit either - it was just that he did it the best. > > Tank Katarina, Tank Fizz, Tank Zed, Tank Talon, Tank Jhin, Tank Yi, Full Tank Wukong and some others I can't remember did absurd amounts of damage while building pretty much full tank. > > Even right now, what makes the games so snowbally is BECAUSE tanks get so unkillable + ADCs scale faster. > > Pretty much: its a 2 pronged attack. They "split" the tank meta of before into 2 roles. Before Tanks not only tanked everything, they also killed everything. Now ADCs kill everything (even better than old tanks), and Tanks tank everything (even better than old tanks). I remember tank metas of the past, the problem was 2-fold then, one of which was solved in season 6 with proper ADC items, and that was that tank-killing DPS was lacking, especially earlier on, and the later part was that tank designs in this game have too much of their damage budget in abilities that front-load that damage. So tanks that actually do damage become pseudo-burst assassins as well. Which is really anti-fun and imbalanced. Mages have historically had this same problem, and it's why riot keeps gutting AP itemization, both tanks and mages (because of their current designs) can turn strong AP items into some really abusively anti-fun bullshit. The solution is to fix the champion designs, and then buff the items. But riot doesn't seem to show an awareness of this, or maybe they are aware but aren't communicating it (which is a failure of a different kind in my book).
the games honestly fine. Tanks are still strong people just don't seem to realize it. The problem is that the game is pretty balanced right now but volatile. So that the game is balanced but sense no one seems to know how to play tanks or teamfights or objectives right. It allows certain things that wouldn't be strong to be stronger then they really are. It's like if we gave adc's 1 hp and there were 4 assasains on every team and people didn't understand killing the adc is really easy and effecient and went to kill everyone and saving the adc for last everytime, you could see how adcs would be really weak but because people play the teamfights wrong all of suddenly everything seems wrong and people complain about X or Y. Now we have it were tanks are fine, ad's are fine, mages are fine because there in the middle of the map and effect everything so mid lane is always fine. Jungle is fine, Supports are definitely fine. The only thing I wouldn't know anything about is top lane but that seems to be in a decent spot as well. But the problem is that people play teamfights and lanes like garbage and instead of learning to play better it's easier to assume everything you do it right and it's your teammates and the game and Riot and the balance that's all wrong. Playing better isn't always about being mechanically better it's also knowing what your supposed to be doing, which is what people really lack more then anything. Every lane is fine right now and has viable and good champions. Hell because no one plays the game decently even assasains can be played pretty effectively below plat. But every lane has viable champs and it's balanced. Sure you might not be able to play the champions you want to play and be on an equal footing. But that's every season. Every season has champions in every lane that are better then another. But not every season or meta can if played right be as impactful in the game as they are currently. Sure you might play good and your team might do bad in a game causing you to lose. But that's one of the downsides to a team game is sometimes your team doesn't play the best.
: Yes, because that was totally the only problem it had.
the problem was that tanks didn't build tanky they build one or two defensive items and then built damage and were tanky as all hell while killing the shit out of everything. A lot of tanks already have decent dmg on there abilities and if they can build like 1 defense item and be considered tanks while having bunch of cc and dmg it's really over the top. Then you had things like fizz and ekko building tank items so it added mobility and more base dmg in the mix with invulnerability on fizz and health reset on ekko.
: These Janna changes seem really really weird
these changes are forced to make it so that to lane she has to work with her ad and fight the enemy. These changes will also be good I think when working with things like caitlyn who's good at poking. The changes also makes it so that it doesn't feel useless to fight say janna/cait by reducing janna E so that if you have a lane that can counter poke some they can bait out the janna shield and do that. so to do that they increased her AA dmg and AA range to not make it so she doesn't just die they increased her base hp they didn't want to buff her health overall so her hp per level is lowered to keep janna laning pressure from being to good and to keep her from being able to just play like an idiot and able to avoid every all-in and gank they lowered her movespeed. Her howling gale cd was lowered early to also make it so that being able to use her Q at the right time can be really useful. They changed her E prob to also make it were you and your ad have to be good to utilize janna effectively.
: You're literally putting words in my mouth, I haven't mentioned a single thing about marksmen at all and now you're acting as I'm the antagonist, way to go man. She's **UNDENIABLY** one of the strongest midlaners right now - her source of constant DPS is very powerful which to my > ORIGINAL < point was the fact that this DPS can actually shred tanks.
also cass had pretty strong kill pressure in lane so even in high elo a lot of people don't like playing against cass and cass is definetly meta. Also people talking about mid being a weak role when there consistently throughout all seasons and meta's been the strongest or 2nd strongest role in the game... Most people who talk about AD vs AP usually mention adc items then ap items then forget that AP champions usually have good kits and strong base dmg as long as they keep up in lvls and then adc's have to have items to be able to compete. So of course ad items are going to be strong Also generally there are 3 or 4 champions in a game that do more ad damage then ap so even if MR were to someway be more effective tanks don't build it as often. Hell I remember the days when tanks were complaining about not having enough MR options and only having spirit visage and like banshee's to build and crappy build paths and most items being something you wouldn't want to build against there lane opponents. Then there is a differnce there are ap mages that shred tanks there's plenty of them. Like azir was great though he's weak right now for other reasons and then taliyah is good and I know I've heard of other mages/mid lane champs being good at shredding tanks Also generally when people complain about mid lane champs it's not mid lane champs they complain about but THERE mid lane champs and then complain that the one champ or champ class they play isn't viable when they can rather easily just play a different champion. I mean every single role in the game is restricted in what champs are strong and weak at any given meta. I mean adc's were still somewhat fine with varus and jhin were meta but no one wants to play just 2 champions and hope they aren't banned or get absolutely fucked. I mean at that time it's litterally the same match up every single game and if you couldn't even get one of the champions even if you tried to find something else to play you would be screwed. So in comparision to mid even though you might not always be able to play AD assasains and ap assasains and mages and whatever the hell else goes mid theres litterally almost always several really strong champions you can play then several other A and B tier champs that are just below that which are viable and if you pick outside of that generally it doesn't mean your going to be absolutely fucked. Sure ap items might be weaker overall. But thats how there supposed to be there also happens to be less MR options for tanks/bruisers and there are still champs that shred tanks or deal good dps in mid lane like cass. There are champions that while also having super good kits also have really good scaling and snowball potential like Fizz.
: > [{quoted}](name=Incognonymous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BPh2FoUg,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-11T12:38:08.026+0000) > > Most ignored. Yes, the most ignored champion in League, contrary the fact that he was given a full visual and gameplay update that numerous other champions have been put in line for. Meanwhile {{champion:82}} hasn't even been seen in the patchnotes in over a year.
> [{quoted}](name=SzGamer227,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BPh2FoUg,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-09-11T16:08:06.896+0000) > > Yes, the most ignored champion in League, contrary the fact that he was given a full visual and gameplay update that numerous other champions have been put in line for. > > Meanwhile {{champion:82}} hasn&#x27;t even been seen in the patchnotes in over a year. I mean he's an immobile manaless ap mage with a point and click ult that does like 70% max health dot effect. I really don't know what they can do for him without making him op or changing his kit other then maybe hoping the meta benefits him and allows him to be stronger then currently. I mean they could give small buffs like + 5 dmg on x ability until he gets strong but generally when that happens no one plays him until he gets buffed enough to be op then everyone plays him. Also I think I remember seeing him somewhere in the patchnotes but I don't recall what it was.
: ziggs and azir could do it better/ from a further range while having abilties that are good at zoning and for instance azir was able to do shit tons of damage and his ult playmaking ability was super strong. Plus for adc's to waveclear they have to have rather good items. Most the time the team that has that waveclear will be the winning team. Wheras Ziggs or azir even if they themselves are 0/5 and there team is also feeding could stall games for 30 minutes. Also azir wasn't nerfed because of his waveclear he was nerfed because he was strong. Though maybe he was never as strong in solo que but in tournaments he was. Also your almost acting like there's no mid lane champion you can play that can really keep up with ad's. Like really, mid lane is almost always has a set of champions that are 1st or 2nd strongest in the game. It rarely if ever happens that it goes to 3rd strongest and I don't think it's ever been lower then that. The reason being that mid laners are in the middle of the map and influence everything. When midlaners have the ability to force the other mid laner to stay in there lane and can take there turret while poking the shit out of them while also scaling well and having play making abilities and zoning abilities in teamfights and the ability to still on top of that influence other lanes because the stronger mid laner ALWAYS influences the rest of the map even if they didn't leave there lane or have abilities like ziggs ult to waveclear mid-late game.
also to add to this even though adc is strong right now. There aren't any S tier ad's right now. There's several A tier but the only S tier is kalista right now and it just happens that everybody sucks with kalista below diamond. And below diamond the only reason things like Twitch can be strong is that they get fed and the fact that teams don't know how to teamfight around him. Which if one or two people teamfight correctly and actually teamfight instead of your team going in for 2v5's and twitch isn't grossly fed which any champion can win games if fed then you'll probably win. I'm actually a support main but made this account to try out ad and it's suprising how differnt teamfights look when the entire enemy team goes on you when your say a fed kog'maw and your team instead of peeling or playing around you will 100% of the time go for the enemy adc even if there like 1/7 tank frozen fist ezreal or some shit they can never kill because your team are all tanks with low damage and the enemy team has 3 assasains. Like really in this case instead of trying to kill the adc your team would just protect you but it doesn't happen even in the plat 4/3 games I'm playing right now. Hell right now I still can barely find any supports who even know how to lane half way decently or even attempt to try and ward aggressively. Honeslty as a support if you can give lane pressure and track the enemy jungler so you don't die to ganks you can literally get to high plat maybe low diamond. So even if adc's are strong there really only op in certain cases like in low elo where no one knows what there doing which also kinda screws with both adcs even when ahead. The real problem in low elo is sense people throw all game your pretty much guarenteed as a trist or kog or twitch to outscale things like kalista which is the actual op champ. Also caitlyn wasn't nerfed because of her wave clear she was nerfed because her traps gave her the ability to one shot everyone.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUvRym7X,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-09-11T21:06:30.134+0000) > > Victor was doing it with like 1 or 2 items though, and his were a lot cheaper, everyone was kinda frustrated about playing against him because of it. > > > But for the same reasons people are now getting fed up with static and RFC, they are too good for game balance, offering extremely quick waveclear, a burst that marksmen aren&#x27;t meant to have and they don&#x27;t even lose much from building it compared to ruunan-phantom, instead it&#x27;s very possible they gain a lot more in all but a few cases. > > > Usually Riot would nerf that kinda thing quickly, they sure did it with Ashe and jhin (altho over the duration over a few patches), however there have been cases when they were slow in the past. > > > Syndra, Zyra, brand, malz,zac and Ivern to mention a few. > > > > I wonder what they are thinking about this time since they aren&#x27;t showing any visible sign of doing much of anything, heard something about a nerf to Tristana&#x27;s E mainly aimed at her lategame out of everything........ Yeah, they were fed up. Viktor and Azir were able to wave clear easily. Yes, early on. Now, ADC can do it almost as quick. Mostly because teams throw as much items as they can to the ADC and it works out great. Why get a Ziggs to hold the lane when a cait with SS+RFG can do it better.
ziggs and azir could do it better/ from a further range while having abilties that are good at zoning and for instance azir was able to do shit tons of damage and his ult playmaking ability was super strong. Plus for adc's to waveclear they have to have rather good items. Most the time the team that has that waveclear will be the winning team. Wheras Ziggs or azir even if they themselves are 0/5 and there team is also feeding could stall games for 30 minutes. Also azir wasn't nerfed because of his waveclear he was nerfed because he was strong. Though maybe he was never as strong in solo que but in tournaments he was. Also your almost acting like there's no mid lane champion you can play that can really keep up with ad's. Like really, mid lane is almost always has a set of champions that are 1st or 2nd strongest in the game. It rarely if ever happens that it goes to 3rd strongest and I don't think it's ever been lower then that. The reason being that mid laners are in the middle of the map and influence everything. When midlaners have the ability to force the other mid laner to stay in there lane and can take there turret while poking the shit out of them while also scaling well and having play making abilities and zoning abilities in teamfights and the ability to still on top of that influence other lanes because the stronger mid laner ALWAYS influences the rest of the map even if they didn't leave there lane or have abilities like ziggs ult to waveclear mid-late game.
: > [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUvRym7X,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-09-11T20:27:53.263+0000) > When Viktor was doing the same thing last year, riot nerfed him for being able to wave clear nearly an entire minion. It&#x27;s like, they seem to completely ignore some design decisions when it comes to ADC&#x27;s. Victor was doing it with like 1 or 2 items though, and his were a lot cheaper, everyone was kinda frustrated about playing against him because of it. But for the same reasons people are now getting fed up with static and RFC, they are too good for game balance, offering extremely quick waveclear, a burst that marksmen aren't meant to have and they don't even lose much from building it compared to ruunan-phantom, instead it's very possible they gain a lot more in all but a few cases. Usually Riot would nerf that kinda thing quickly, they sure did it with Ashe and jhin (altho over the duration over a few patches), however there have been cases when they were slow in the past. Syndra, Zyra, brand, malz,zac and Ivern to mention a few. I wonder what they are thinking about this time since they aren't showing any visible sign of doing much of anything, heard something about a nerf to Tristana's E mainly aimed at her lategame out of everything........
also not to mention that when say a viktor has good wave clear it kinda fucks his lane oppenent because then they themselves can never leave mid lane. Which is pretty big because mid is litterally the most impactful role. So viktor would have super scaling ability then he would force you to stay in your lane getting poked and shit then if you ever leave your lane you lose your turret. A lot of things people had against ekko was that he would litterally just waveclear in his lane and people could never really play the lane against him but from my memory he was nerfed because his base damage was to high and ekko would just tank stats and kill everything while being a tank God. So if I remember right they nerfed his % health dmg and he still has pretty good wave clear. Then we are also ignoring that there are still champions with good waveclear like Anivia. So it's not like just pure waveclear is the problem. But also the ability to say apply loads of lane pressure(poke viktor/ziggs) and the ability to influence other lanes (ziggs could waveclear other lanes as well) and the ability to have kill pressure and still scale like a God (viktor and maybe to a lesser extent ziggs) but even though zigs might have been weaker in his own lane during lane phase he would be able to wave clear everything and still poke and face check and his ult would do loads of damage to people doing baron and his abilities are also good at zoning around objectives. So viktor was to good at lane pressure and the ability to shutdown his lane opponent and wave clear and take the tower while scaling well and ziggs was to good at complety just stalling games for 30 mins. Also even though these were big problems it's also true that they were allowed to be strong for a relatively long time before being nerfed. I mean that's just the thing the things that are meta are always pretty strong. Instead of changing the game day by day which would be really annoying to keep up with the game riot usually lets things stay in the meta for a while before changing it. So ziggs was strong but it's not like he got strong and then Riot instantly nerfed him within a week of him becoming op. If I remember right he was strong for like half a season.
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUvRym7X,comment-id=000700000002,timestamp=2017-09-11T23:05:57.493+0000) > > What grants mages their good waveclear is their _kit_. Almost every mage, with the _only_ exceptions being...Uhm...Yeah, just Janna, Rakan, and Sona. Three _enchanter supports_. And maybe Ryze. That&#x27;s it. Every single other mage has an ability that passes through minions, or is a wide ground-targeted ability. That's entirely true While AP mages have wave clear built in their kit, they don't have items that suddenly change their aoe damage into insane single target damage. They had that time, it was called Deathfire Grasp because it was giving champions burst that weren't suppose to, and champions who already have burst, more burst. Riot decide to buff champions who needed it in their kit for burst and champions who were using it to burst when they weren't decide were left as is. In this case, RFG+SS is giving some champions too much safety and wave clear that is on par, if better than many AP champions. I'm not talking about every ADC but it's clearly too much. Again, it's one thing when the champion has that by design, IE trist small aoe burst after she kills a minion, or sivir, but seeing a Cait pretty much AA a oncoming minion to the point that it's more reliable then many AP champions is clearly not healthy.
I mean that's because everything a mage has in there kit everything an adc has is in there items you can legit be 0/5 on a mage and still do a lot of damage if you have levels you can always be relevant whether it's damage or cc or burst even if it's not as high. The only thing that would be bad is that if your 0/5 the 5/0 mage even if gold doesn't do as much as levels it still helps somewhat and they will probably be a lvl or 2 up so they can do more then you. you can't do that on adc even if your the same level if you 0/5 your useless unless you somehow pick up gold and then you pretty much do about the same thing with 10k gold whether your lvl 10 or 15. Though it would be a bit easier to burst you down sense you will have less hp from levels. In fact thats what makes hyper carrier, well hyper carries is most hyper carries scale pretty well from both levels and from there kits. So Tristana has a attack speed steroid and passive range per lvl. Vayne has her silver bolts. Ryze though maybe not as well as he used to but he would have good scaling on his abilities which had good base dmg and gave eachother cdr and then he would be tanky from the items he built and get more cdr.
: > [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUvRym7X,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-09-11T19:55:18.794+0000) > > They shouldn&#x27;t have wave clear. That&#x27;s exactly my points. They have should have high single target sustain damaged. Instead, they get waveclear along with high single target sustain damaged Waveclear is fine though because marksmen need to auto attack to do it, however what's not fine is that they with {{item:3087}} and {{item:3094}} along with a {{item:3031}} can do it near instantly- Using {{item:3085}} and like 3-6 auto attacks? That's perfectly fine. Using the static build and doing it in 1-2? Not k.
an example of an adc that's designed to not waveclear well would be vayne and is one of the reasons she's so bad in all but very very few cases like when sivir or ezreal are meta since vayne hard counters them.
: There was no way to fix ziggs waveclear though, except nerfing either his scaling, base damage or items. Because he was designed to have the range he does, and changing it would cause far more issues. Now he is a good/Average midlaner among many.
^^ this ^^ Ziggs was designed from the start to be able to waveclear from a long range during his laning phase if they get rid of that his laning would be completly messed up. Because they would have to reduce his damage to minions on pretty much every ability by like 80% to get rid of his mid game stalling ability that he had in the past. So that's why riot gave minions the baron buff effect.
: Remove waveclear from ADC itemization
so essentially when ziggs is strong these things happen. 1) can wave clear with E 2) can still poke and doesn't have to facecheck because of Q 3) his ult can pick up side waves 4) his ult and spells are also really useful in fighting over baron and can even still baron rather easily 5) in the past even with baron ziggs could still waveclear and then your baron wouldn't do shit, which was fixed by baron buff change. 6) all the things ziggs does is so long range that it's almost impossible to get a pick on him even if he plays bad sense even without having to lane Q's or using abilities well he's so long range and his utility in being able to waveclear and facecheck and his aoe when fighting on baron and objectives just feels bad to play against. 7) the game is literally paused from all action until your team gets impatient and does something stupid or until the ziggs wants to. Plus even if ziggs team allows teamfights to happen if the ziggs survives he can still waveclear rather easily against 3 or 4 people and his ult can still be used to waveclear a side lane so it's hard to get anything before his team comes back up. like legit before the baron buff was changed to buff minions ziggs can legit stall games for 30 mins by himself.
Rioter Comments
: Bot lane is all that matters, yet the adc has the least amount of control over it. Team with the better support and bot lane ganks, wins. Maybe thats balance to some
I can climb with viktor and orianna and I barely play mid. I mean even the top challenger mid players all play things like Cass/leblanc/taliyah/syndra/kat/tf/lucian/vel'koz/orianna/ryze as there most played champ. Hell wasn't there a one trick viktor player who got to challenger/master? Amd viktor seems to be one of the weaker mages. Hell even thinking of Annie Bot he's able to one trick Annie and still be in high diamond. Apdo seems to mainly play mages and he can get to challenger with very little losses. Also despite what you guys seem to think bot lane also carries by getting a lead and then getting objectives. One of the reasons Adc is neccesarry is because they take objectives. One of the huge reasons trist is so strong right now has to do with the fact she's pretty good at getting objectives and getting objectives is good because it gives the team global gold. Also jungle and mid carry by getting there team ahead as well and giving map pressure and vision. It's really not any different at they end of the day. In fact sense most ad's can't 1v1 and don't have tp for baron or anything and can't really solo pressure lane or get wards down it could be said that adc's can easily have a hard time carrying in comparison to how I can carry with even something like support (even without ardent) just by having map pressure and knowing how to teamfight. With a support you can somewhat cover the fact that your teamates don't know how to teamfight but with ad if your team plays it the wrong way they can make even the strongest ad's on there team useless.
AD Yuumi (NA)
: He's the hero we want AND the one we need.
Breaku (NA)
: Yeah but aos was awful
I mean its like saying X challenger player invented blue ezreal then someone else says no it was made by a gold EU streamer and then claiming that sense the gold streamer is bad he can't claim the idea and play style as his own and therefore the challenger guy invented it and no one is allowed to create a poke teamcomp from now on even if you don't use ezreal because then your just stealing idea's from the X challenger player. Also other then aos starcraft made other Moba like maps that had champions some of which had like a dozen different spells and then some maps later on had exp and levels as well. All of this was inspired directly from aos so even if you consider the game shit it really sparked everything. And if I'm not mistaken some of the people who worked on Dota were also part of the original creators who helped conceptualize LoL.
: And manage 4 different actives at once...
: exactly this. The items shows how strong ADC are because they get busted from just +25% as
it was 35% attack speed before nerf, then a lot of onhit damage and then about as much lifesteal as BT if you consider the fact that the lifesteal procs on runaan bolts. Then you gotta add that Lulu and janna and the like already buff adc's and then you realize that janna with ardent is litterally like giving a BT and wit's end to an adc at the 15 min mark.
KoKoboto (NA)
: Yep, since patch 6.22 in November 2016 the item has been busted.
people forget that ardent was already strong when aegis and remption were op. Just people didn't realize how strong it was sense the effects are a bit hard to notice if your not actively looking for it. Then Riot nerfed redemption and aegis so now ardent is the sole item. In fact even then it still took people a long ass time to notice how strong ardent was. I remember even watching challenger streams and people didn't realize how strong it was. and I remember when my team would want to FF and then I'd be like but I just got my ardent then they would ? me and then we would win.
: Riot Loading Border Shenanigans!
is it just me but do people seem a little overly stingy about 175 RP.... I mean cmon. Do any of you guys have jobs even minimum wage can make 175 rp rather fast. Half of you probably spent longer complaining about this then it would've taken to make that money and even if it was a bit much is it something to have a heart attack over. Then people complain about the mission and game mode being bad. I haven't participated in either but cmon how many skins have had missions attached to them or game modes released along side them? Also this might even explain why the skin costs 175 extra rp.
Show more

Enraged Piglet

Level 66 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion