: > What exactly was the balance team's train of thought regarding Kai'Sa? When handling the release of a new or reworked champion, it's not all that common that the team that created the new champion thinks the release was perfect with no issues to sort out. In this case, we've had a patch of play on Kai'Sa, players have gotten some time to explore, and the creators wanted to make some changes that they thought will improve the feel of the character. Obviously, there are power implications to said changes, which they consult me and/or my team about. At this point, we ask that in the event of the champion becoming too strong, are the changes still directionally correct? If the answer to that question is yes, we try to get these types of changes in sooner rather than later. If Kai'Sa becomes too dominant on account of the changes in 8.6, then sure, we'll nerf her. However, it's unlikely we'll just revert the changes from the patch, because again, the creators of the champion believe they were right for the long term future of the champion. I don't think it would have been right to preemptively nerf her on account of them, because although her performance is rising, it still doesn't seem alarmingly high. To sum up and directly answer the quoted question... the balance team's train of thought regarding Kai'Sa is that if her creators have post release changes they want to make that they're confident are in the best long term interest of the champion, then we should try and accommodate. If that increases the possibility of a nerf waiting down the road, then that's what we'll have to do.
Is there any chance of fixing her recommended items? Because I still see people trying to build crit on her, and guinsoo's rageblade isn't even mentioned on the recommended page. I honestly think that the reason she feels "weak" to a lot of people is because they don't know how to build her. Her Q gives her efficient farm without spending gold on AD, her E is a reposition that gives her attack speed, her W has damage comparable to some ults if you've built enough AP to upgrade it, and her ult is an escape, a dodge, a survival mechanism, and a kill securing mechanism all in one. Her passive nukes down epic monsters at levels comparable to Vayne/Velkoz and she's an ADC assassin who can fit Mejai's into her build without making power sacrifices. Buffing the range was good because if she gets zoned all lane she's pretty binary, but doubling her AP ratios across the board feels like a massive overreaction.
: Even every streamer I watch is hating on league really bad.
I have literally been seeing this statement made since season 3. The fact is, almost everyone gets bored of playing the same damn game over and over for years. I've recently started playing again because I found a new group that plays consistently (and because Kai'sa is not as garbage as everyone claims, stop building crit on her you goons and go bork+rageblade+qss), and while I agree that bot is too influential (and ALWAYS HAS BEEN except during league of warmogs), the game isn't necessarily unfun as a result. Different champions, different roles, different strategies, and even different playstyles make things feel fresh. Unless you play a billion hours a day, and are forced by the nature of your fanbase to run the same role and play as competitively as possible day-in-day-out. Which is why I'm glad I'm not good enough to be a streamer.
: Don't forget daddy Braum too.
Yeah, there are a bunch of good ones (I only mentioned the first few that came to mind) but Braum is a major offender here. The number of times an ally has died because they wouldn't move that single step toward me... yuck.
Rioter Comments
: "only a tiny percentage of players use item sets so we are not bringing it to the new client"
I had custom item sets for every character that I ever used. Then a patch wiped them. So I remade them, and updated them, iterating on a couple when I found that I had more success with certain styles. Then a patch wiped them again. I currently have about three item sets, only because I wanted to try weird off-meta stuff. But if I felt I could reliably use them without the risk of all my work getting erased, I would use them a LOT more. Also yeah, as others have said, it's not like the feature is particularly well-advertised. You get into lobby, and you can see runes, masteries, summoner spells, and champions - most of the features visible from your champion profile. Item Sets are kind of hidden away in a corner, and frankly, it isn't all that versatile of a feature despite the massive potential for successful use. If the client is getting updated anyway, why not give us the opportunity to not only have Item Sets back, but allow us to _modify them in lobby?_ Damn, this reminds me of Dominion. "We're abandoning the mode because nobody plays it." Well, people DID play it, but you didn't deliver on any promises or do any upkeep/support for the mode beyond minor balance changes over its entire existence, so whose fault is that?
: Riot is suddenly fulfilling all our wishes
All our wishes? And yet, I didn't get my Star Guardian Illaoi... ("Witness the power my god grants me! My Stand - Bust-A-Move!!" "ORAORAORAORAORAORAORA") ...Only in my dreams...
Drakylon (NA)
: Do remember that you're being compared to other Ekko players at your rank. Also, you're possibly at least partially being compared to lane Ekkos, since jungle Ekko likely isn't popular enough to have a large enough sample size at your rank to compare you to. Knowing that, let's get to the stats. Considering you're the jungler, <50% kill participation is actually really bad. 64 CS in 26 minutes is also below average, and if the system actually is comparing you to lane Ekkos, then the system believes that your 64 CS in 26 minutes is absolutely garbage. Furthermore, your damage dealt to champions is fairly low for that much of a lead at 26 minutes, meaning your score was lowered even more. Your team was already 4k ahead at 11 minutes, and 7k at 20, 3 towers isn't all that much. A more competent team likely could have pushed a lot harder and pushed down many more towers with that large of a lead. 2 dragons in 26 minutes with a constant gold lead (i.e. minimal contest) is only average, since nowadays dragons can be taken very early, and its spawn time is low enough to squeeze in more.
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. It still would be nice to see the mastery system redesigned to give some feedback though.
: That KDA is not good enough, let alone your CS. Ekko is a very strong pick, and very contested. There are tons of people that get way better than that by the 26 mark. More than tons.
Why is KDA the most important thing when looking at jungler mastery? Why is the mastery system designed to think, "hmm, good objective control, excellent hit rate on key abilities, but oh he only got 2 kills and 7 assists at 26 minutes, that's below average skill"? Why does the mastery system not provide hints on how to improve play, like "Want to improve your mastery? Focus on map control! Focus on taking less damage! Focus on avoiding tower aggro!"?
Hiroki49 (NA)
: if you look at the damage taken, you ended up tanking a lot of damage compared to the damage you outputted. If you were playing assassin Ekko your damage should be enough to 100 to 0 your opponent before they can retaliate.
If I'm jungler, I'd rather give my team members assists than take the kills myself. Zed had no concept of self-preservation but feeding him kills in the lane phase meant he could still be a Zed when teamfights started happening. When my team includes a Zed and a Twitch, I (Ekko) am NOT the priority when it comes to getting somebody fed. And again, given my shield and ult, I often WANT to take damage because it keeps my team alive and can bait enemies into outplay situations where Ekko thrives.
: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2203018464?tab=overview You had less than 50% kill participation. I don't jungle so I can't comment on adequate cs for that length of game. Your team did under ward compared to enemy team. From what i'm seeing it's the KDA. Btw, you only placed 3 pink wards, not 4.
Ah, my mistake. I *bought* four and the last one was in my inventory because they surrendered before I could place it. And I had less than 50% kill participation because bot lane was kicking enough ass on their own that I only went down there once. I don't see how 2/1/7 is a C+ KDA.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: >So you're saying that when you're at work, and your boss promises you a raise, and you don't GET that raise, you don't feel cheated? Not even similar. Rito said they were giving free stuff. They have given free stuff. They never said how much and then backed down from that amount. >You're saying that when someone says they're going to give you a birthday present, and then they don't, it doesn't impact you? Not even similar. Rito said they were giving free stuff. They have given free stuff. They never said how much and then backed down from that amount. >Or like that McDonalds monopoly thing they sometimes have. If you bought a meal, peeled off the stickers, and they were all completely blank, wouldn't you feel like there was a broken promise or like you were misled? This is close to your example. You need to change it though. In order to fit Hextech crafting, it would need to say, "McDonalds brought in Monopoly and said that each item has A CHANCE to get a peely sticker"...and then people would get all butt hurt when there wasn't enough peely stickers. >In all of these cases, they're things that you didn't HAVE to get, but you were told that you might have gotten something nice, and the fact that you didn't makes you very frustrated. The difference is that if you're told it's coming, you expect it. Except riot IS giving when they said. They just aren't giving it ENOUGH for you. "omg but rito i want MORE keys. making it so we can only get 2-3 keys a month is unfair". >I'm not saying it's okay to act entitled, but if a friend changes their mind about giving you a birthday gift, you're well within your rights to say "Hey, I know there's no law saying you have to buy me a thing, but you said you would, and... well, you're kind of a dick for breaking a promise." No. Hextech crafting example would be like your friend saying they would give you a birthday gift, and you bitching because they didn't get you A BIG ENOUGH gift. >This is like that. Your girlfriend doesn't expect a romantic dinner every day of the year, but if you don't deliver on your anniversary, she's not going to accept "it's a free fucking dinner, you aren't allowed to feel cheated" as an explanation. Rito delivered. I have gotten free content as a result of Hextech crafting. Also, your gf example would be her bitching that you didn't take her to a fancy ENOUGH resterant for her free dinner...in which case your gf is probably a snob anyway. All of your examples are someone saying they would give you something, and then not giving it. At all. This is not the case whatsoever with this system. This is a case of you not getting ENOUGH of it for your pleasure. Simple as that.
You are totally missing the point. I'm not complaining that I'm not getting enough. I'm complaining that the system is confusing. Which it is. It absolutely is. If I'm told I have a chance to get key fragments when I win games, I should have some idea what that chance is. When I get 3 key fragments in 3 wins, then no key fragments in 20 wins, I feel like I must have done something wrong. There is no clarity. Just frustration. If Riot removed Hextech Crafting tomorrow, I wouldn't be particularly disappointed because I have gotten literally nothing from it. I got a randomly rerolled skin for a champion I don't play and a shard for a champion I already own. There isn't even anything I want. I'm just pissed off because they're like, "Hey, here's a fun little lottery game you can play sometimes! Except you play too often, so we're going to arbitrarily restrict you and not tell you why." Like, I don't even want the items, I just want to open fucking chests. It's a weird psychological quirk but it's there. It's a desire for consistency. It's like seeing a tilted picture frame. It's out of order. It needs to be fixed. OPEN. THE CHESTS. STOP HAVING THEM BE CLOSED. And the balls-out fucking random key drop frequency is directly connected to that too. Stop acting like I'm a pissy entitled fuckwit because I want the world to make sense. Stop acting holier-than-thou. You're nitpicking. You're deliberately finding things to disagree with and pretending they disprove my argument. They aren't. If people are unsatisfied with Hextech Crafting - and they are - then it means the system is fucking broken and needs to be fixed or removed.
: > It's all the limits and exclusions that piss people off and make them feel like they're being cheated Are you fucking kidding me? Feel cheated from what exactly? They are getting free for-purchase items. What is it exactly that you feel cheated out of? That you don't get ENOUGH of it for free? If you're not happy with getting a couple things for free, then don't use the system. Simple as that. Good thing I don't work for rito, because I would disable this feature from every account bitching about it.
So you're saying that when you're at work, and your boss promises you a raise, and you don't GET that raise, you don't feel cheated? You're saying that when someone says they're going to give you a birthday present, and then they don't, it doesn't impact you? Or like that McDonalds monopoly thing they sometimes have. If you bought a meal, peeled off the stickers, and they were all completely blank, wouldn't you feel like there was a broken promise or like you were misled? In all of these cases, they're things that you didn't HAVE to get, but you were told that you might have gotten something nice, and the fact that you didn't makes you very frustrated. The difference is that if you're told it's coming, you expect it. I'm not saying it's okay to act entitled, but if a friend changes their mind about giving you a birthday gift, you're well within your rights to say "Hey, I know there's no law saying you have to buy me a thing, but you said you would, and... well, you're kind of a dick for breaking a promise." This is like that. Your girlfriend doesn't expect a romantic dinner every day of the year, but if you don't deliver on your anniversary, she's not going to accept "it's a free fucking dinner, you aren't allowed to feel cheated" as an explanation.
Rioter Comments
: What lack of transparency? They said key rates get rare when you get more. They said the drop rate resets after about 30 days from your first one. Your lack of reading comprehension =/= lack of transparency. Stop bitching that you don't get ENOUGH free stuff with the new system.
They only said these things in the forums. People who don't spend all their lives on the forums won't know these things. In the client, there is no indicator when the drop rate resets. In the client, you get ONE chance to learn how the entire Hextech Crafting system works (ie. when the popup first appears upon opening the inventory) which is why we still have people in the forums saying "I just got my first S rank as my favorite champion, why didn't I get a chest?" If it was as simple as "S rank = chest, win = chance of key," no one would have any questions about it. It's all the limits and exclusions that piss people off and make them feel like they're being cheated out of something they were promised - whether it's free or not doesn't matter, it's the denial of expectation that makes it frustrating.
Rioter Comments
: You should expect to open 4~3 chests per month
How long has Hextech Crafting been available? Because I've only gotten enough key fragments to open two chests, and I've had an average of 1-2 wins per day since it was released.
: I like complaining about free stuff too.
It's not about free stuff, it's about an utter lack of transparency in mechanics. How are we supposed to know when the drop rate resets? How are we supposed to know that we have gotten "enough keys" for the month? Getting free stuff from Hextech Crafting is a cool thing Riot decided on, but holy shit, the way it works makes no sense and is immensely frustrating. When you think you might get something and then you don't, it feels worse than when you know you won't get anything.
Jon1174 (NA)
: Songs That Go With Your Favorite Champion
{{champion:136}} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZRy6XfJ8mI "Don't miss me TOO much."
Twistana (NA)
: If you could ask riot ANY questions, what would be your question?
Why does Lee Sin's ult have a 2.0 bonus AD ratio (one of the highest ratios in the damn game - if you buy a BF sword his ult literally gets a bonus 90 damage alone) when the ult could literally do zero damage and still be immensely useful? Hell, why not try that - take away all the ult damage, but cut its cooldown to like 30s to compensate?
: You pretty much nailed all my frustrations right on the head. Trying to learn a new champ without flailing pointlessly into a custom game is just frustrating now. I remember grinding game after game in team builder to learn the new GP, where now I have to hope it isn't banned, I even get the role to play it in, or someone else doesn't pick it in a different role (as people like it mid and top now and not just top).
This this this this this. When I wanted to learn Ekko jungle, I was able to consistently and reliably play him something like 20 games in a row until I was an Ekko demigod. Now I want to learn Kindred jungle. Half the time I don't get the role I want, and almost all the rest of the time I lose my pick due to bans/someone else grabbing it. I'm just out of luck.
: Arcade Hecarim E is Stuck in 2nd Gear
It hasn't been his day, his week, his month, or even his year :( EDIT: What, nobody's seen Friends? ...Arcade Hecarim is always stuck in second gear?
: I feel like her E or W needs a slow... Not a huge slow, but something... Her animations are so long that some kind of a slow would make casting feel less punishing..
You could always build Iceborn Gauntlet.
Meddler (NA)
: DoTs do on average feel worse because their power's harder to track. In a lot of single player games that's easily solved by just making a DoT incredibly strong if you need it to feel satisfying - doesn't matter if it's somewhat overpowered if it feels right relative to other direct damage abilities. In a competitive multiplayer setting like LoL that's not an appropriate option though, given the need to value ability balance really highly.
What if you had an indicator of how much damage over time you can be expected to take/regeneration an effect will provide on your healthbar, like Heroes of the Storm does? It always feels shitty to die after you think you've escaped, but if you could look at your healthbar and go, "oh, the DoT has me, oh well," then it feels less abrupt. It would also give lower-level players a greater appreciation for things like Volibear passive, Mundo ult, and potions.
: I keep suggesting Sewn Chaos when appropriate. I'd love to see some more of that theme.
Sewn Chaos Volibear, the table-flipping teddy. Sewn Chaos Aurelion Sol, trailing loose threads and being circled by yarn. Sewn Chaos Illaoi, who yanks voodoo doll souls.
: They have only made minor buffs or clarity/QOL changes to Illaoi. Same for Jhin and kindred and gnar. For the past 8 champions they are at a 62% success rate which isn't bad considering they need a lot of data to balance a champion
But Illaoi and Kindred are kind of garbage right now... (Unless they get really fed, in which case they go nuts. But that's the same with a lot of champs.)
Miudmon (EUNE)
: Anyone else really miss team builder?
THIS. Get rid of Blind Pick, replace it with Team Builder. 99% of people who play Blind Pick instalock the champ they want anyway - let's give them a way to do it without pissing off the other 4 people they're stuck with. And while you're at it, give me a way to play a weird comp with my friends while giving randoms a chance to opt out if they're ~~cowards~~ uncomfortable.
Meddler (NA)
: Potentially before the mage rework. We're trying some stuff at the moment that's showing some initial promise (shorter E Vessel duration so you're not waiting forever to start normal play again, faster tentacle spawns during that reduced duration, shorter spirit lifetime, removal of the 'hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life mechanic since that's not well communicated and is often just a trap).
I have two main comments: 1) What??? You can hit Illaoi to reduce the spirit's life?! I'm nearly mastery 5 with her and I had no idea. Spirit duration is poorly communicated in general too - I never know when it's supposed to vanish. 2) Her E in general is very confusing and seems distorted in its goals. If an enemy stays in as a vessel, I have a clear advantage. But the debuff lasts so long and has so little immediate impact that it frequently just results in the enemy laner playing passively until it wears off. It doesn't even have a huge impact if they DO decide to go in - it just puts a bit more pressure on them. Anything that streamlines it a bit and increases the impact would be immensely helpful. The "kill tentacles to remove debuff" mechanic is a bad idea to me - it encourages the player to sit back and wait for tentacles to spawn, so it creates the noob trap of making passive/nonfarming play feel like the correct answer. Why not try this: -Vessel duration is significantly shorter, duration is reset if Illaoi lands another E (because the fact that it currently doesn't makes no sense, if I can chain Tests of Spirit successfully I should be rewarded). -Vessel CANNOT DAMAGE TENTACLES and tentacles swing faster if the Vessel is the target, like a specific-case version of her Ult self-buff (or alternatively tentacles swing more frequently). -Vessel can see tentacle attack range, perhaps as an extension of the vessel visual overlay. This way, Illaoi significantly increases pressure on a Vessel, but they don't feel like "wait it out" is the right response - they instead want to stay in the fight and farm while having increased awareness of danger. Landing a Test of Spirit doesn't give you a feast-or-famine "free farm for 20 seconds/do nothing whatsoever if you're behind" result anymore, but it gives you a cumulative advantage window each time you do it, and that gives you a bunch of rewards if you can do it consistently in lane.
Rioter Comments
: Can we please just have team builder back as WELL as the new draft mode?
New draft is fantastic, but my friends and I loved Team Builder because it meant we could just try silly comps whenever we wanted to - Fiora/Tahm bot? Themed comps? Perhaps a Garen/Darius beefcake lane? Just gotta find one or two randoms who are willing to sit through your stupidity and you're golden! Meanwhile, draft pick has bans, other players can grab your champs before you do, and if you declare a normal comp for pick intent (so nobody dodges) and then pick somebody stupid, you get automatic toxicity. TEAM BUILDER HAD A NICHE THAT IS NO LONGER FILLED. New Draft does NOT replace Team Builder. Stop pretending it did.
Rioter Comments
Laraso (NA)
: Can we stop pretending like Miss Fortune got a rework
Step 1: Double her max Impure Shots stacks, half their damage. Step 2: Make all her damaging abilities apply Impure Shots, but keep it so only her basic attacks and ult get the damage. Bam, now you have a champion built around staying at range and harassing the enemy until she can out-duel them with her free magic damage.
: And Quinn and Valor ~~don't~~ share them _too_ ~~either~~. You forgot about them
Yes they do. If you use E as Valor to dive in, you can't switch to Quinn and E again to escape.
: > [{quoted}](name=Phioxsyn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aVfYOar9,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-18T01:50:56.171+0000) > > I just got nasus not too long ago, I have played in total 4 games on him ever. 3 top lane, 1 in the jg. All 4 were in team builder. I am not sure how they determine your most played (perhaps what shows up the most frequently in your past 20 games?) But team builder is 100% a part of it Then must be broken.
: It should work like that, but Riot must not have done all queues. Understandable it doesn't work with Featured Game Modes, but I guess they just forgot about Team Builder when they made the Frequently Played.
So it's not working as intended. So it's broken. ...So I'm right.
: Those Ekko games are with Team Builder, makes sense they don't count.
Why shouldn't Team Builder games count toward frequently played champions? If I queue that often as that champion, it means I play them frequently, whether it's blind pick, draft, or what. "Frequently Played" is an indicator of a player's most recent role in games, intended to make it easier to grab a team of friends who complement each other. If I play literally nothing but jungle in teambuilder (which is generally the case unless I'm doing something dumb with friends), why should my one blindpick game where someone else called my role throw off the entire deal?
Rioter Comments
: I disagree with the top-down rework. She needs her plants AI fixed to be like Dinggers Turrets and more HPs. and she needs her passive reworked. Thats it.
Jesus christ dude, you're aware this thread was posted in January?
Jaredan (NA)
: Sorry, but no. not right now. And please leave my booty alone. Did it get uncomfortably warm in here?
Is it Fortune? I bet it's Fortune.
Trias000 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=EnvyDragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cqhTdXnM,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-15T05:20:44.272+0000) > new champion designs are consistently unfun bullshit This can't be any less true. {{champion:432}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:429}} are very fun to play. And they're difficult to master, which makes playing them a challenge, so even more fun.
Unfun in that case was referring to playing against them, and frequently playing on the same team as them. And I was mostly thinking about Kalista. Until maybe a year or two ago, Riot's champion design philosophy focused heavily on how it feels to play AGAINST them. That was why I played League instead of Dota - it feels like shit to learn Dota because everything is arranged to make you feel terrible when you don't know what's going on. Now Riot's breaking that philosophy in an attempt to break new ground and pioneer new mechanics... Not cool, and it doesn't make it NOT suck when Kalista dodges your skillshots for free.
: So you have been playing for 3 seasons and the highest rating you are able to achieve is still only Bronze 2. You complain that the balance doesnt know what they are doing and yet somehow think you know better when you're terrible at this game. Why is Ekko getting buffed? Perhaps because hes not and never was an overpowered champion, but trash bronze players like you that dont know how to properly play against champions come to forums and cry. 1. His ban rate is rapidly decreasing as people realize hes not overpowered or even particularly strong. 2. His winrate is in the bottom 10 lowest in the game. "It's kinda sad when Blizzard has more community interaction now than Riot does. " You're just straight up talking out of your ass here. Feel free to go to the HOTS forum where you see 1 blue response every week IF YOU'RE LUCKY. Meanwhile click Red Tracker on boards and see daily responses from reds, perhaps not to the specific issues you want answered but thats another issue. Furthermore look at reddit and twitter where you can find weekly responses from Riot employees on various issues. Blizzard's community interaction is nearly non existent. Saying otherwise is flat out false. I challenge you to browse the HOTS forum for an entire week and note the amount of times Blizzard responds to their community, it if not in the low single digits ill eat my own shit.
I've been playing for 3 seasons and after being consistently high Silver (gold MMR, based on who I get matched with) I got dumped in Bronze after going 3/10 in placements. I didn't give enough of a shit about rank to crawl back up. My brother actually played my placements recently (the ones I'd been sitting in for literally 3 months) and sent me a text saying "WTF WHY IS MY TEAM FULL OF GOLD LEAGUE PLAYERS" before losing because the Jax went AFK. Or so he says. He plays Yasuo so you know you can't really trust him.
Sh4de (NA)
: I thought you'd mention the butchering of classic champions, but since some of the reworks were a success (Sion being the only one) I can see you glossing over it. If you are going over to HotS, be aware that the player base is super casual, and that since there are no items to balance out what strengths a champion can get, the game is won by the innate design flaws of the character. Be prepared to see Anub'Arak in every game for the eternity of your time there. Past that, I can say its definitely fun when you're not with a "try hard of die hard" player that so often makes games of LoL toxic.
I'm actually totally fine with most of the reworks. The only problem with Karma's rework (in my humble opinion) was thematic - it made no sense for a pacifist/diplomat to become a hyperaggressive spellspammer. I do think the Zilean rework failed, I think the Ashe rework made her too oppressive to lane against, I think the Ryze rework didn't do enough, and I think the Gangplank rework is going to needlessly change his identity. But I like that they're trying. (I don't like that the Warwick and Fiora reworks we saw previews of are still MIA...)
: Been playing since S2 - hanging up my account now
Wow, I actually kind of expected this to die off... Only reason I posted was to vent. To the people saying "recent news posts have mentioned their plans for the tribunal", I just went through the news feed and the most recent post that even mentions the PB&J team is [this one](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/new-player-reform-system-heads-testing), which predates Ekko. Yes, we've been told there are plans for the Tribunal, but - and correct me here if I'm wrong - we don't actually have an ETA. Keep in mind that "soon, pending tech work" is exactly the same thing we were told about expanded lore... when the Shurima update went live last September. League is the only game I've ever stuck with for more than a year or two, and I stuck with it because the game always felt like it was expanding and getting better. Old problems were being erased, new issues were being addressed and tweaked. Now old problems get ignored (or set aside for literally months on end until they can be redone from the ground up), new problems are getting progressively WORSE, and sweeping changes are made without warning and ignorant of critical feedback. Every player seems to recognize this. No one in a position to change things seems to care.
  Rioter Comments
: why don't we all agree that Quinn has been garbage tier ever since release and that she needs a kit rework.
> [{quoted}](name=Dark Chronicle 3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1PQzpeRO,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-12T13:40:55.961+0000) > > why don't we all agree that Quinn has been garbage tier ever since release You had me... >and that she needs a kit rework. ...then you lost me.
: Fixing a bug is not a buff or nerf. It is a bugfix.
Remember when Rumble's Q was bugged and barely hit when it was supposed to? To compensate, it literally had more damage potential than Crowstorm. They fixed the bug eventually, and now it consistently deals damage in the hitbox it appears to have... but if they'd just left it like that, he'd have been gamebreaking. So they nerfed it down to reasonable levels. If they hadn't touched the numbers, the bugfix would have been a huge, HUGE buff. That's what I expect out of a Quinn bugfix - they repair her janky fucking attack frames, maybe change the Harrier mark to a pop-on-hit from a modify-next-autoattack (so if Valor marks them while your arrow's already flying you don't have to wait an hour for Quinn to load the right ammo), and then nerf her numbers to reasonable levels. When fighting against ADCs, Quinn's shitty QoL gives her a massive disadvantage. When toplane, that doesn't matter as much - she has range and lots of abilities that let her stay at arm's length. Nerfing her numbers will hurt her toplane matchup more than QoL fixes will help it, and I'd argue the QoL will help her botlane enough (because the demands are different) that numbers nerfs won't be a big deal.
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EnvyDragon

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