: To be fair, I saw a fucking Godlike Shaco the other day who took Dark Harvest. His build consisted AD and Attack Speed, not lethality. He sneaks up on you wiith stealth and auto attacks you to death. He got really fed.
Attackspeed on fed champs with garunteed gap closers is always strong, the fact he got fed is the main concern.
: Why is shaco still so trashcan after nearly 4 years lol. "oh no he can decieve, lets nerf every other skill to the ground. There is no logic to the statistics of his kit. Was odd that he was one of the least played champs forever and just out of the blue Riot decided they wanted to nerf his E and Q.
his deceive is {{champion:107}} ultimate on a basic move(instant, displacement, low cd, and without the reveal mechanics). Thats the problem. Its the main problem its his entire identity and its the reason he is viable at all ever. Its the single strongest move in the game and if it was on anyone elses kit rn, they would be broken. {{champion:23}} Imagine tryndamere suddenly appearing in melee range behind you and Woping you with his q empowered auto, then spinning through you dealing over half your health instantly then disappearing after his r is almost up into the jg with his new stealth move. Imagine {{champion:58}} appearing behind you in your lane randomly and stunning you for half your health(or more if they give it a empowered version) and deleting you from cc. Imagine {{champion:31}} Gargoyle stoneplay cho appearing in your team instantly eating your adc outa the blue. Imagine {{champion:24}} just randomly appearing in your lane whoping you with his magic lamp of death before ccing you just to vanish into the air. Imagine {{champion:126}} (melee q btw not ranged) trying to lock this boi down from shooting space lazors at you if he can just Hee hee hee into the distance every time you get close then fire another space lazor from the fog of war. Deceive takes up his entire power budget and its why he feels so crap to play.
: 51% winrate needs a buff?
Needs a rework, ill be honest buffing him wont make him feel better to play as or against.
: It's like everyone here forgot when Shaco had like 54% winrate and people still wanted him buffed. xd
Shaco is a cancerous kinda strong when he is strong. He isnt "strong" he is just always behind the worst player on your team easily exploiting the worst player and getting his allies ahead. His Q always lets him jump the blind guy that does pay attention to the map, and in most games thats enough to win the game simple because that dude rage quits or starts hard inting something like nasus or ahri. Shacos damage and kit are dysjointed and counter themselves, leaving all shaco players feeling like they are playing 3 different champions that are constantly fighting with one another. Shacos boxes are TERRIBLe vs anything/anyone competent (pre vision/sweeper changes they used to activate on being sighted and then die). Shacos strongest aspect is droping boxes behind his own adc and watching the assasin leap into them as a form of peel for the adc and its his most reliable way to use the boxes too. Most tanky top laners can eat 5 boxes from an ap shaco and still have 70% of their life left. Shacos w reveals him from his stealth briefly, has a massive delay, and doesnt really do damage to enemies that are feared outa its range. Shacos E stops him from moving just to slow the enemy and removes the passive slow. Shacos R reveals him, pauses, stops him from moving, summons a clone that body blocks shaco all the time, and isnt strong when shaco is behind regardless of ad or ap, it also can be casually walked away from since its super long animation is slow. The cast time of W causes shaco to stop moving, and allows you to walk away from shaco. Shacos kit works best if you can q to get to someone, right click them, and then do nothing but right click them as casting spells ruins your dps and can cause you to get kited to death. His R's immunity frames are nice tho.
: > [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WizmyFEi,comment-id=000700020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T06:58:05.765+0000) > > So an assasin killed another assasin? i mean, rengar doesnt have to build straight assasin, in this example i have spirit visage. But If we are being analytical, rengar could build zhonyas, as he does have a W scaling, and then zeds useless all game vs him. You are right tho, dying in 2 seconds as pretty much any class is pretty trash and common these days. > This was assuming Yoloq Where you can be vs mundo, vlad, rhast, soraka, and draven and your the only one building grievous wounds. > Pro play and solo q are vastly different. Which is kinda why so many balance problems exist in yoloq Zed is far from useless with Zhonyas. By the time mages have Zhonyas built (which is usually 2nd item), Zed has enough lethality and CDR to not need the mark damage to kill you, since Zhonyas puts you in stasis just for him to set up 2 shadows and land a triple Q+E the moment you come out of stasis as you are stationary. That's more than enough to kill most mages/assassins. Zhonyas barely bothers Zed, because his Q is a <6 sec cd and he will always have his Q+E back by the time you come out of stasis. And Rengar building Zhonyas is complete troll and makes him utterly irrelevant in the game for assassination purposes.
wasnt talking about mages, was talking about rengar. And zed IS useless against a rengars zhonays if he ults the R. Mages can buy the stop watch early, and negate the first Zed ultimate. Zed typically doesnt counter mages, he counters CERTAIN meta mages and can domiante if he gets a lead. He is viable and oppressive vs things like viktor but useless vs things like vlad. Zed needs the mark damage to kill most laners. Zed cant Kill most laners he might be able to shove them out of lane, but in doing so opens himself up to being ganked. Zeds threat over mages is that his burst is faster on basic spells, so he typically gets chunked harder sits at 20% health but still wins vs the 40/50% health enemy laner because he can burst so fast they cant trade during it. Jgs such as kayn or hec destroy him. Vlad can ignore him and scale pretty hard. He has counterplay. But im almost CERTAIN if zed builds a zhonyas, he is probably pretty useless. Im just being honest. Rengar does not suffer from zhonyas like you think he would. Zeds tripple q and e really isnt enough to kill most mages with runes, items, defensive summoners and any items they can build. Zed really doesnt do much damage unless fed. Compaired to something like renekton or darius, zeds full rotation of damage outside of his R is significantly lower than most bruisers. His triple shuriken can also be significantly lowered by the minions, lining up 3 shurkines on a zhonyas target is only possible if they zhonyas under their turret alone with no minion line and you were allowed to be in melee range of them BEFORE you ulted. Most champs dont zhonyas zeds really really weak R lvl 6 or 11, they zhonyas the triple q or e that zed uses to empower his R. His R has less damage than his basic attack if he procs his passive base line. Zeds q is 80% of his damage outside of his autos, and its still lower than aatroxs 3rd q.
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ArtumisPrime,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N9csqLco,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T02:59:12.392+0000) > > If you sort u.gg by tier, and look at the top 50...there are 15 champions who can be considered frontliners/tanks. And that is including shit like Vi, Darius, Aatrox, Hecarim, and Vlad. All of whom generally build bruiser (1-3 damage items) or pure damage. > > 26 are purely damage champions. And that excludes both categories of the 15 listed above, and hybrid damage-support champions like Lux, Morg, etc. while still including full damage supports such as Brand. If we include the shielding supports as well, damage champion numbers in the top 50 goes to 29....35 if we include champions like Aatrox and Rek'Sai who have the option of building 4+ damage items. > > 35 of the top 50 can build almost entirely damage. > 3 are purely sustain/enchanter supports. Janna, Nami, Lulu. > 4 are tank/tank supports. Tahm Kench, Naut, Rammus, and Thresh. > > Your anecdotal "evidence" is clearly wrong, based on the empirical evidence I am providing for you. > > If you want to try and refute me, rather than calling me silver and claiming your gold "competitive" tournaments are all the proof you need..maybe do a bit of research, or at least provide some proof to back up your claims. woah woah woah here dude you are saying that 35 of the top 50 champions can build full damage ya.. but thats inting on like many of them... Almosy every champion builds some form of damage I would not dispute that but you wanna sit there and act like its a burst meta like last season then no you are simply wrong. The 5 top winrate champions in this game right now are sivir amumu yorick volibear nunu with tanky junglers making a big comeback. Heck assassins arent even strong with the artillery mages being the big powerhouses which require frontlines to protect them. So once again who are the champions who are killing you in half a second I truly want to know perhaps you are just not playing the matchup correctly..
Doesnt matter what the top winrate champs are, never has, and ive built full ad renekton and aatrox before, you 1 shot their team from a bush via 3rdq it is viable especially vs something tanky that cant beat your sustain. It suffers ONLY against another damage champ which is why damage is meta. Winrates are based off and directly correlate to playrates, old morde had like a 59% winrate at one point before his rework, simply because he had like 30/40 games total that week. Champs that are easy and strong and played very rarely will have the highest winrates, champs like nunu voli and amumu are defined by being easy, relatively strong, and teamfight champs that can do really well if ahead. They are countered by being invaded/ smart play. Notice they are mostly JUNGLERS, with 1 really really easy and safe adc thats got a utility engage ultimate for most of the immobile juggernauts to use to engage. Yorick is strong because his ultimate is balanced around it being a massive cd and easily smitable/eatable by something like a cho or nunu jg (they just walk into lane and smite bite then walk out, boom yoricks useles for 3 mins).
FSRER (EUNE)
: So, you agree to remove a huge portion of his kit for no other reason that he is good at pro play? And the balance team does not understand that this nerf is bigger at solo queue and almost does not effect pro play at all because he still gets increased self healing on R. What can I say, the balance team is really made of monkeys.
its one of those, if its a 50/50 trade aatrox wins mechanics that can randomly win or lose entire games in pro play. In yolo q so many deaths get thrown around it wont really change much tbh. That being said. yea...... they do that *remove a huge portion of his kit for no other reason that he is good at pro play?* quite often tbh. He and his breed are also regularly complained about anyway. So its a nerf to tame the haters too. Aatrox main weakness, is, that outside of dodging his spells, he has no weakness Design feast or famine but with cc. Riot balances around feast as opposed to famine. Aatrox needs to be fed to be viable. AAtrox gets nerfed becuase he gets fed to often so he is now just unviable. Aatrox gets balanced around famine. AAtrox feels unfair to fight as he can still win trades from behind. Aatrox dicates the entire game when ahead and putting him behind doesnt change much about him. Aatrox gets nerfed for being feast to much/not being useless when behind. And here we are a champ thats gonna get nerfed no matter how he is balanced. Needs his healing removed, changed to flat, or altered so that he cant heal above a certain threshold. Are nerfs justified? No not really. Are nerfs gonna kneecap him, not these nerfs no. Are nerfs gonna lower his winrate, probably yea slightly at least. ____ Will he still be picked in pro play because of his aoe cc, pull mechanic, slow mechanic, move speed on R, massive aoe damage, massive self healing, and high base damages that require the enemy to pick a NON-tank to beat him in lane or risk just being a health sponge. Yep. Will this lack of a tank top, turn into a problem when teamfighting comes around for both teams. yep. Will this champ still be a viable counter pick in pro play. yep. Will he have a few matchups that are more likely to go against him. yep. Will it mainly be bruisers like darius or voli or something as opposed to tanks. Yep. Is this what riot wants instaed of *wet noodle fights that are decided by the front line* yep because they wont have a front line.
: So I agree with the Aatrox nerf
AAtrox went from being a drain tank, to being a drain tank they managed to remove his entire identity and still leave his self healing when thats the 1 thing they wanted to remove. He will always be trash tier or op, its how vlad, olaf,aatrox, rhast and the likes are (rhast has his weakness of normal kayn downtime which is why he isnt gutted) Riot just likes making them trash tier instead of op as they arent flashy. The passive and his E passive are gonna be the main problem in his kit for a long time. The R revive after kill never really did me any good, always felt like If i could kill a dude mid teamfight, the revive wasnt why i was strong, it was the fact i could ya know, kill a dude mid teamfight. Turret dives typically with triumph especially never really resulted in me dying after the kill. Several times id die tryna get my revive, as opposed to just walking away. The timer on his R is to low for it to be reliable. its really just a win more mechanic, so that in a near even matchup aatrox just default wins because hes aatrox. If your massively ahead it really doesnt help if you managed to die you probably got caught out and have 4 people on your body waiting. If your behind, you are tryna kill steal to revive, and if you do you probably are so weak they can ignore you till its gone/double kill you anyway. If you are even, you run the 50/50 of just winning becuase * im aatrox*. Taking the revive allows them to change a bit of his power. Wonder if they will buff his E by giving 2 charges, increase his range on q, or w slow or something as compensation later when eh tanks in winrate in pro play and barely moves in yolo q.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: No ADC is building armor penetration, why is this not talked about?
Because champs are designed nowadays to anti-tank via their kit as opposed to items. then they got conqueror (which causes a stat check between a tanks base damage and a enemies resistances and healing) so tanks have to build more damage to out pace conquerer. Champs like darius and morde gained pen percentage randomly. Mundo and champs like him gained more precentage max health damage randomly to beat armor/health items. Healing from items with eternity, and such became stronger in a 1v1 setting than resistances. Junglers got kinda.... well... so now building split resistances kinda.. well.... yea Mr doesnt allow you to turret dive, yet a significant amount of damage is magic, and it randomly scales from AD/precentage health, has high base*think kaisai passive* So on. Nowadays sustain>resistances think aatrox/vlad/rhast vs any tank. Heck even swains R will heal him back to max while also removing your health bar. Fid would be broken if his W worked the same as irelias. temporary stats>permanent stats think garens W active, or alistars R or sejs passive vs things like garens W passive, higher base stats slightly, kassadins passive, so on. Sustained damage and burst are no longer separate on champions. Think aatrox 3 qs, sure thats burst, but now remember he has high base ad, and his R gives %ad and he will right click you to death if you cant out pace his passive healing. Also rivens got sustain and burst, yasuo does to, a bork or tforce user like yi or jax also have plenty of burst (yis new solo q is super high damage on a sustained dps champ). Illaois R duration is sustained burst. Increased damage via runes. Massive percentage armor pen/reduction values. Runes that buff damage on low hp targets, making poke a TERRIBLE idea Imagine a xerath getting bursted to 1 health comboing with 11% increased damage before dying now imagine him comboing FIRST then getting nuked and dying. He gains damage simply because you dont have enough to kill him in 1 of these examples. Whats worse, you build health, and he instead goes cut down and now he does 15% more damage to you because you went tanky.(ps xer isnt broken just an example, brand with cutdown and liandyrs vs a 4k hp target is far stronger). Its simply that killing someone, yields far better damage reduction for your team than leaving them alive. A now everyone has access to that level of damage and power. The GARUNTEED damage thats in the game now, forces peel to be less impactful than it used to be. Zyra R, ashe R, into sion R, wont kill A kayn outright without follow up (watched a video) and if he lives, he can W for 50% of an adcs health in shadow mode which can insta gib a low hp target. So why take the risk? Why not go renekton and just kill him via your burst LONG before he can touch the adc. Also your not actually that tanky as a tank. Assasins feel almost as tanky as tanks, post black cleaver especially with suto tank items like deaths dance/phantom dancer which gives a micro tryndamere ult to people(maybe more like a alistar ult) so that even tho you DID kill them, they are still alive for long enough to trade 1 for 1/ land their cc. Oh yea, cc used to be tank and mage thing. Tanks had cc, and more of it, but mages had longer ranged cc. Now everything has hard cc. Combined with all the tenacity in the game thats available, and tanks with knockups counter tanks without them, causing the only 1 type of tank to be viable, The temporary stat stick tank with multiple ccs, 1 of which has to be a knock up/back, and massive engage and disengage range and power {{champion:113}} otherwise its just better to stick to whats strong {{champion:127}} and reliable that isnt a tank.{{champion:25}}
: explain the move set, Is it zed R riven R vayne R yasuo R or lee? I feel like, its yasuos passive, lee sins Q, zeds W, Rivens E, and vaynes R. That way, you get 1 damage move that gets aimped, you get a dash, that can also dash(the lee q from the clone, can cause the clone to dash to its OWN target and then you can dash to it), and you go in stealth repeatedly, have massive sticking power, 2 shields, your clone also dashes via rivens E(more mobility please). Untouchable. Question is if BRONZORD's double crit passive is op or not :)
wait, what if we use vaynes condemn, lees kick, yasuos windwall, rivens dashes, and zeds passive. Free farm for days, and a garunteed wall stun whenever needed. nah feels weak. But windwalls a thing still. Kick someone then cast condemn during it so they fly through their team, then into a wall.
Uvec (EUNE)
: https://pics.me.me/bronzord-the-promos-slayer-how-not-to-do-your-promo-9334825.png Relevant
explain the move set, Is it zed R riven R vayne R yasuo R or lee? I feel like, its yasuos passive, lee sins Q, zeds W, Rivens E, and vaynes R. That way, you get 1 damage move that gets aimped, you get a dash, that can also dash(the lee q from the clone, can cause the clone to dash to its OWN target and then you can dash to it), and you go in stealth repeatedly, have massive sticking power, 2 shields, your clone also dashes via rivens E(more mobility please). Untouchable. Question is if BRONZORD's double crit passive is op or not :)
: > [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iy9q3Oyd,comment-id=0004000100010000,timestamp=2019-06-21T20:37:06.877+0000) > > Illaois the worst example like ever, > she is like :do you have flash? no go to step 2, yes go to step 4 > ------------ > step 2 do you have mobility currently up yes go to step 4 no go to step 3 > ----------------- > Step 3 Do you have immunity frames ready yes go to step 4 no go to step 5 > ------------ > Step 4, you live > ---------- > Step 5, you died Yeah, no. If you just know how to sidestep and/or have a champ with small hurtbox, without landing her E Illaoi is a pretty bad duelist. Ofc it changes in a teamfight where she R flashes or where nobody is kiting her, but overall you can outmanouver her most of the times
yea, i played her vs nasus, he lifestealed enough my full combo on his spirit didnt kill him and he ran me down. But then i got a quad in a teamfight, while being 0/6. I mean. i wasn't saying she is unbeatable broken op disgusting, i was saying she is terribly designed to the extent its not fair. That being said the changes are kinda toxic and only further that problem I am directly stating, that the champion, either Wins or loses, and its based on numbers not skill. For example a nasus can eat every tentacle slam post 1 item, even through his spirit and not die, and then illaoi has no real attack after, where as a lot of other champs would just outright die by the E alone come 3 items in (she can get over 100% health scaling on the clone and she doesnt even have to be the one to do the damage to it). With 80 ad on 1 item, 40 on another, and 80 on another, she gets 200 bonus ad, she rocks like 150 base ad, with runes that can go to like 400 total ad, and with dragons can easily reach 450, THe E base is 45% and with 8% per 100 ad thats 40% bonus putting it at 81% of someones hp bar. if we factor in the transcendence build its closer to 90%, at 4 items its 100% or at 3 plus red pot. She isnt a great "i feel like this is a good design" based champion. She is a "well if her q does 40% of my health i cant fight her ever, but if its only 35% she will never be able to touch me" kind of champion in most matchups.
: > [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WizmyFEi,comment-id=0007000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-21T15:51:04.379+0000) > > 50/% and 100%plus cleanse, with spirit visage its, 30% stronger each time, the heal doesnt remove the next heals power either, so you can double tap to heal 150% plus 30% more, or take revitalize and make it 1.3X1.05 or 1.3X1.05X1.10 stronger. Infact its so strong if you get cleaved for 25% of your health, and you were at 65% when that happned (knocking you to 40%) you can insta heal to full from that POKE(healing from poke thats nice). > heal 2.25X damage done to you lol thats nice. Most assassins die to sustained damage while being pinned down anyways. Doesn't matter if you healed up the 1.5 second burst of someone's burst when it still takes only 2 people to blow your ass up in the next 1.5. Look at LL Stylish against any Rengar. He Zed ults the Rengar ult leap, lands an E and 3 shurikens point blank and the Rengar just melts regardless, especially if you have Grievous wounds, which any team should build against healing based champs.
So an assasin killed another assasin? i mean, rengar doesnt have to build straight assasin, in this example i have spirit visage. But If we are being analytical, rengar could build zhonyas, as he does have a W scaling, and then zeds useless all game vs him. You are right tho, dying in 2 seconds as pretty much any class is pretty trash and common these days. This was assuming Yoloq Where you can be vs mundo, vlad, rhast, soraka, and draven and your the only one building grievous wounds. Pro play and solo q are vastly different. Which is kinda why so many balance problems exist in yoloq
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: 9.14 changes according to Riot Repertoir (Blitzcrank, Leona, Akali, Lux, Tahm kench)
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: 9.14 changes according to Riot Repertoir (Blitzcrank, Leona, Akali, Lux, Tahm kench)
Soooo pyke does more R damage by a LOT and gives twice as much gold. Well... No more penta dunk but one dunk means four kills worth of gold. Nice.
: > [{quoted}](name=Feel Apathy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZOoq2HG,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2019-07-01T17:18:24.850+0000) > > How ? > > Do we buff them into mid lane/jungle/top lane instead ? > > Top lane doesn't want mages/ranged champions. > > Mid lane has Yasuo / Zed / Talon / Irelia , they can't go there either. > > Jungle ? Kha'Zix / Lee Sin/ Elise / Eve That is for Riot to figure it out. Perhaps if they balanced the game instead of rotating the meta to suit their needs we wouldn't have these peoblems in the first place.
Ah rotatin ops lovely style that made super mundo tahm release Camille and post buff sej
: How ? Do we buff them into mid lane/jungle/top lane instead ? Top lane doesn't want mages/ranged champions. Mid lane has Yasuo / Zed / Talon / Irelia , they can't go there either. Jungle ? Kha'Zix / Lee Sin/ Elise / Eve
They could go mid if riot buffed their range on spells for certain mages, and tank stats on the short range ones. Currently taking Annie over Syndra Orianna or Irelia/renekton is pointless. You don't get significant damage or tank or range gains over any of them. Orianna has her shield for trades making her just about as tanky as Annie in short trades, while having similar cc full combo and damage with more range than Annie. Renekton does more damage and is far tankier and can easily roam/burst entire teams. Relatively no point in picking Annie mid over support. Or Swain mid over support or over Vlad so on. ___ Since mages are ability only, the one with the most range, one with most cc, one with most damage and one with most survivability will be the only four mages that matter in the game. There would need to be a super niche pick for it to be viable. Like TF or Ryze tried to be. Sadly pretty much everything counters mages, or gets counterd by them based on damage numbers alone now thanks to the super hyper mobility and damage creep. So why not put them in the 2v2 lane so they can invalidate someone else :(
coreym11 (NA)
: Bot lane is literally a bullet hell shooter
Constant Mana nerfs have left mages unable to deal with more than one person before going oom especially vs anyone building defensive. _________This makes mid lane vs nullifying orb/trinityforce/steraks gauge/selfhealng mids and or jgs extremely taxing on mage mids. ________Another thing is past the first item, mages typically dont gain much, everyones base health per lvl starts messing with their burst damage+item to health ratio, they simply dont have the same one Combo kill power at lvl eleven or sixteen as they have at lvl six, Mr starts to get built even just boots cuts off like 500 damage from veigars combo post pen items. ________ ADC players refuse to build Mr or health till their third or fourth item, and in doing so open themselves up to poke. Combined with jg pressure and the strength of the other ADC and the other ADC s 0counterplay damage and you get the current meta. Mages go bot because enchanters are terrible carries, and they enable their jg ADC to carry. This is why Jg, Sup, and ADC are the highest winrates and lowest winrates they have the most impact on the game now.
: Whoever asian Sup is i feel like they are also inting. Or very very unlucky
: Is this guy intentionally feeding
Whoever asian Sup is i feel like they are also inting. Or very very unlucky
: Depends if I feel like I’m being outplayed, or just out championed. Like urgot a few patches back. Everyone lost to him, not because they got outplayed. But because urgot was not beatable. There was no outplaying him. Where as if I lost to say, yoric. I know I missplayed, I got hit by his w when he had 4 ghouls up.
I sense WEAKNESS from you, EXTERMINATION!!! Man that ults still one of the worst designed moves in my opinion the sheer gold value that thing has vs anything with 1 hp item is insane. Oh and if you had shields LOL forgot those
: > [{quoted}](name=flibitydoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iy9q3Oyd,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-06-18T19:40:02.338+0000) > > everything you've said supports OP's point though > > you find singed fun against kindred because singed is doing something that wins. Winning is fun. You only have fun when you win. You have fun when you do something that makes that kindred lose. Is the kindred having fun on the other side when that happens? Is it fun to lose your ult? no. Zero sum game. And the fun you had was made in winning or doing something that leads to winning. > > Find an instance or match up where you have fun getting destroyed to prove OP's argument wrong. One where you don't get salty or upset or annoyed and say "I only lost because X" and instead you step back and applause and say good fight well played. One where you'd be okay with that happening again because it's fair. That's actually having fun without winning. (PS, setting a sidegoal like "I want X KDA and don't care which nexus explodes at the end" doesn't count as not-winning, there needs to be genuine commitment to the win objective that was failed for it to count as a non-win, going "well at least I set and beat my own personal goal" isn't being happy in defeat, it's being happy that you won on the side). You'd be very hard pressed to find an instance where genuine defeat happens and players are actually happy. No one likes to lose. > > Find an instance where you didn't have satisfaction or a good feeling after destroying someone, shutting them down and winning the game. And if that moment is followed by "well they're gonna respawn quick" or "I'm gonna have to go through that ordeal again", then that doesn't really count since it's quite clear that there wasn't a full win against them. > > No champion is fun to play against because every opponent is an obstacle which will apply pressure and therefore stress and we all hate stress There are plenty of cases where you win but you don't have fun doing so, like when you get carryed after being useless all game, or when you go even in lane, others win and you only splitpush, or many other cases (having a stressing game and such). On the other hand, I wouldn't say there are many instances of being "happy" after a loss. More like being "uhm ok, I can accept that". Like when I play {{champion:420}} and the opponent dodges all my tentacles with dashes or a well placed flash, I accept that, I also happen to say "that was good/well played" in all chat, Ofc most of the times you are upset after losing, but I feel like there are champions that you subjectively find fun (or, maybe better, less unfun) to play against, but that's not a reason to change them, it's your subjective opinion, and usually, like the OP said, these champs are the ones with counterplay, but not always (for example, talking about {{champion:420}} again, she has clear windows of counterplay and dodgeable skillshots, but way too many people find her unfun to play against), and it's not only because you beat them.
Illaois the worst example like ever, she is like :do you have flash? no go to step 2, yes go to step 4 ------------ step 2 do you have mobility currently up yes go to step 4 no go to step 3 ----------------- Step 3 Do you have immunity frames ready yes go to step 4 no go to step 5 ------------ Step 4, you live ---------- Step 5, you died
: everything you've said supports OP's point though you find singed fun against kindred because singed is doing something that wins. Winning is fun. You only have fun when you win. You have fun when you do something that makes that kindred lose. Is the kindred having fun on the other side when that happens? Is it fun to lose your ult? no. Zero sum game. And the fun you had was made in winning or doing something that leads to winning. Find an instance or match up where you have fun getting destroyed to prove OP's argument wrong. One where you don't get salty or upset or annoyed and say "I only lost because X" and instead you step back and applause and say good fight well played. One where you'd be okay with that happening again because it's fair. That's actually having fun without winning. (PS, setting a sidegoal like "I want X KDA and don't care which nexus explodes at the end" doesn't count as not-winning, there needs to be genuine commitment to the win objective that was failed for it to count as a non-win, going "well at least I set and beat my own personal goal" isn't being happy in defeat, it's being happy that you won on the side). You'd be very hard pressed to find an instance where genuine defeat happens and players are actually happy. No one likes to lose. Find an instance where you didn't have satisfaction or a good feeling after destroying someone, shutting them down and winning the game. And if that moment is followed by "well they're gonna respawn quick" or "I'm gonna have to go through that ordeal again", then that doesn't really count since it's quite clear that there wasn't a full win against them. No champion is fun to play against because every opponent is an obstacle which will apply pressure and therefore stress and we all hate stress
When ekko lands the stun. i feel like i deserved that loss. I feel like that ekko somehow managed to predict our entire team 3 and ahalf seconds ago and hit all our team. Then i realize ekko still sucks and loses even after he lands that stun because he doesnt do the same tier of damage as fizz just YOLOing the R into our group.
Ayzev (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Grouchy Poro,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iy9q3Oyd,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2019-06-20T05:22:12.516+0000) > > 1572 ap {{item:3135}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3020}} and 3x {{item:3089}} And how long does it take to get that? Can you expect this to happen outside of practice tool? > my ultimate to a 4000 full hp Dummies have 10,000 max hp. So was it full or was it at 4,000? > now tell me again veigers r without its execute cant one shot? No one denies that it's theoretically possible. It's just not realistic for that to happen in practice, in an actual game, unless someone has been afk for most of it and is severely underleveled with no defensive items.
Most lvl 18 champs have 2k hp, most champs build health or resistances especially vs veigar. No veigars R has 325 base damage his W has 300 W has 100% ap ratio, R has 75% at full hp If veigar has 100 ap, veigars W does the same damage as his R, his W will continue to do more than his r permanently from there on out. W is more likely to kill than R with 1572 ap, AND his w will be so stacked that its gonna have a 2 or 1.5 second cd, thats gonna be cancer to play vs anyway his R istn gonna be the problem.
: Just would like to point out that YOU CANNOT one shot anyone with Veigar's ultimate. They need to have been damaged already because his ultimate is an execute.
Indeed, you need at LEAST lich bane and an auto then your R ;)
: Completely Agree except that u have it backwards. Midlane champs that make u feel that way are Zoe, Sylus, & Mordekaiser, all new champs who just are overloaded. Master Yi is simple. Auto attack only nerf he needs is Q cooldown. Counterplay is someone like Shen and dont let him reset. tada Sylus the kind of guy to take veigar ult, one shot adc with just scaling, dash in, do tons of AoE to last 4, then get his stealing ult back up just to steal lulu ult and BM.
Yi makes me feel like i needed to buy ga AND zhonyas so that i could immunity frame his entire ultimate duration. Champ is unfun brokeness, tho he is gutter tier for that pretty much all the time because riot hates binary champs.
: i agree with that statement. But honestly it does piss me off when a zed misses his all of his q's and then just auto , e's you to death. it should no work like that.
he is ad all ads work like that,all ability based ad champs can right click mages to death in melee range. Even some ap champs can do that, its inevitable that dps eventually over several seconds reaches that point. Problem is the difference between AD and AP isn't large enough in the burst department for some to justify ap, and some ads dont have anyway to close that gap without dying (talon) to justify such smaller/more delayed burst.
ApexRiven (EUW)
: I hope u feel so much fun when zed miss his q But still 100 to 0 you by pressing point click press his e then right click u 2 time then ignite electrote
Critical zed? double crit? early game? what point in time is this? I even struggle doing that with Ie zed lvl 7 when fed, vs veigar when BOTH autos crit. Like seriously he DOES NOT have that lvl of damage. Funny because riven hard counters zed.
DUDE BRO (NA)
: If I'm mid against ahri, veiger, or even zed I'm having fun because I know I can dodge their skillshots, exploit their weaknesses, etc. It is fun because I always have options and if I lose I know they were really good, or I played poorly. Even if they're ahead I can still outplay and win fights. When I play against a master yi who is 0/7 then 1v5 pentakills our entire team, I am not having fun.
veigar plus Jg makes me believe that veigar aint fun to play against. But yea, most right clickers are pretty much broken in this game nowadays, if your champ cant 1 shot with abilities alone, its gotta be a right clicker if its in the damage role nothing else is allowed. But 1 shots are also not fun, so they get nerfed to the ground and arent allowed :( so yea.
: Yeah another thing about snowballing is the low cost on many poke stuff. Back in the day Blitz's pull 110 mana. Morgana Q also did like 25% on early levels, and Cait couldn't use Q non-stop. Now every new/reworked champ is low cost, or super high regen. You missed Blitz grab 4 times? Who cares you can try 10 times more before oom. You missed Morgana Q 5 times. Here have 30 more tries. If you hit once, then easy kill. In some cases i can literary lose games by all enemy bringing long range stuff, tha pokes the hell out of us, and keep distance with their 999 speed, CC, and free flashes.
yea no, thats because riot dropped the ball on "defense but not really" runes and items. Second wind/dorans shield... so your poke needs at least X more damage to move someones health bar based on what resistances they have this number can get pretty high. ------ Nullifying orb, phantom dancer, steraks gauge, and maw of maw/hex , Super nice knowing I cant follow up my cc or they will just shield all my damage. ------ Remember when blits grip was a death sentence for all but morg and or ezreal, nowadays you gripped the adc jax as he leaped onto his allie with counter strike up so he beats your blits down. ---- As it stands most poke champs cant function anymore in league, you have to be a "ranged BURST champ" aka your entire kits burst has to be the same range as your poke. If your like nidalee the enemys will just heal back to max between your spears via 1 bloodthirster or spirit visage.
: Speed - The Forgotten Problem...
Speed is a problem, playing something like anivia and watching mundo run AROUND the q with rightous glory isnt very fun, but thats why I got the wall. That being said the reason mages feel broken/reason a lot of things feel like they die in 1 hit is because riot balanced the newer champs around the enemies being fast enough to dodge their spells {{champion:142}} while older champs were also at one point balanced around champs dodging their spells {{champion:76}}{{champion:101}} , however that was toxic so they nerfed/reworked those champions. I mean think of old Morgana, now look at new {{champion:25}} , what was it that made her pick or ban after her rework.... her SPEED. That being said, most champs are balanced nowadays around DODGING skillshots, but if 1 ever hits(the cc ones) thats 99 more skill shots that are gonna hit the stationary target instantly deleting them. Short garunteed cc {{champion:64}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:254}} makes it impossible to "dodge" the really long easy to dodge hard cc {{champion:34}} that results in your champ being stationary and dead to the 5 other abilities that hit them immediately after. This is why champs like yasuo arent broken, {{champion:80}} can W yasuo and then morg his the qw on him while he is temporarily unable to use windwall. This however makes champs like {{champion:75}} INCREDIBLY vulnerable since they will hav ea much harder time dodging the cc as opposed to yasuos windwall, this leads to them being COMPLETELY OVERSTATED in their effective range, reading the 3 paragraph nasus R, and still seeing him sub or at 50% winrate leaves you questioning how broken everything else is in this game.
: I like Irelia, but +1. It's pretty wild how Yasuo has been the most hated champ in this game for ages and they've done nothing to reduce the frustration.
Facethewind the most infuriating noise in league of legends, either yasuo feels how trash the spell is as he eats a {{champion:136}} ult {{champion:31}} Q and W and his team gets instagibbed during the cc duration, OR {{champion:29}} R is completely nullified along with {{champion:8}} 's healing being "interrupted and destroyed" >.> yea fun spell
: I'd rather go against an S tier champ every game over yasuo once in a while
I'm at my witsend with that item that destroys tanks/mages/apasssasins. Wheres my ap equivalent reduction item kappa
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WizmyFEi,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-06-20T01:03:52.565+0000) > > Rengar is a Kamikaze champ with virtually no outs once he goes in. Shaco has boxes, a blink that stealths him, and an R that also helps him survive, while being infinitely less dependent on ult to get to targets while Rengar's only way to reach an enemy without ult is if they have Down's and go facecheck a bush knowing Rengar's passive. > > Rengar virtually does nothing outside his ult because all his power budget is sunk into it. Shaco's power budget is more distributed toward his other abilities. > > There's a reason people play Kha'zix over Rengar. Khazix's also does burst, does not rely on some trash bush gimmick, and has 2 stealths, a massive conal slow, and a leap out. rengar at his strongest > khazix at his strongest. rengar is legitimately the only champion who was ever capable of 100 to 0ing people instantly at level one.(back at release when he was capable of stacking q's on jungle mobs and holding them forever) no other champion in league of legends history was ever capable of doing that.(i don't count the 100% max hp dmg nasus ult one as that was a bug) rengar whenever he is remotely viable is pick or ban. rengar has far more toxic gameplay then khazix. rengar kills faster. rengar kills faster. rengar is not fun to face. rengar cannot be outplayed whenever he is viable.(unless you have 0.00001 reaction speed and even then if the rengar does everything well your not outplaying him) rengar has had far more nerf complaints and threads throughout his history then khazix has. rengar coincidentally for all of his power is far more braindead then khazix is. rengar at his strongest >shaco,khazix and basically every other assassin combined because lets be honest he was the real OG assassin and many of us still have nightmares from his release. if we actually had a patch of league of only champions at their strongest rengar would probably be in the top ten.
no reaction speed means nothing, as cast times exist and his Q/auto power/R damage hits regardless of if you move outa range (you can finish shens R accross the map and STILL eat the q auto crit R power spike +onhits. You can however dodge his W or E, but his w and E will still proc the stax allowing him to W again to break any cc you used. Infuriating that every other cc in league is a knockup tho, tbh thats probably why he doesnt have a 60% winrate.
: > [{quoted}](name=DJBlackVoice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WizmyFEi,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2019-06-20T08:22:58.096+0000) > > I play rengar too, and the problem its that even if you counterplay him, he havent a punish since this stupid Heal W no dense. If we miss a single Q we havo to wait for more than 12 seconds for do it again, while rengar can just go in bush and jump away. The heal heals for a percentage of his damage taken to begin with, and if you're fighting him near bushes it's as much your fault as it is if you've lost to a Poppy or Vayne or Talon because you were r%%%%%ed enough to stand near a wall for them to act on.
50/% and 100%plus cleanse, with spirit visage its, 30% stronger each time, the heal doesnt remove the next heals power either, so you can double tap to heal 150% plus 30% more, or take revitalize and make it 1.3X1.05 or 1.3X1.05X1.10 stronger. Infact its so strong if you get cleaved for 25% of your health, and you were at 65% when that happned (knocking you to 40%) you can insta heal to full from that POKE(healing from poke thats nice). heal 2.25X damage done to you lol thats nice.
QancerClown (EUNE)
: Shaco is fucked. I want to kill people but Duckblade is my best ability, it does the most dmg xd
nah its actually static shiv, with infinity edge and stormrazor ----- just make sure to NOT hit the back of the target boy does that suck nerfing your crit damage because of your passive.
Karfuss (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WizmyFEi,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T19:37:24.997+0000) > > It triggers me so hard. Laners are like "WTF WHERE IS MY LEVEL 2 GANK SHACO" > Dude, do you want me to come and deal 13 damage with my E and leave or what Pretty much. Shaco can't do a single thing until he has a few points in his Q, where he can then at least GET to the enemy laner to do something. He was an item reliant champion that got nerfed twice by a specific nerf and then by a blanket AD assassin itemisation nerf. Now he's useless. I will still argue to the grave that Old Shaco wasn't OP and didn't deserve gutting. He just benefitted from how busted itemisation was. Shaco was never an issue prior, Boards was only triggered by his ability to stealth, which made it somehow feel worse to die too than the infinitely more mobile assassins.
he isnt useless he is unfun to play and play against. he is highly situational. shacos box is one of the STRONGEST single spells in the game. Its an aoe hard cc blanket damage ability, that has rediculous base and scaling, while also being autonomous and giving vision. His Q is the best ESCAPE in the game bar none, ekkos R is the only rival in this category, but shacos q doesnt give him away and his lasts almost as long as tryndamers ultimate 4.5 seconds long, plus the escape, boy thats halarious. Its just why choose shacos situational boxes that can destroy entire teams at baron/dragon/ interrupt turret dives and turn 3v5s into penta kills, when you can just...... play something like hecarim and insta delete everything in the game after first clear snowball and win. (p.s. watching the enemy {{champion:11}} hit a box in his R is the most satisfying thing ive ever seen in a game of league).
: Shaco E
eh shaco got transformed into an on hit delivery service by riot, either AP boxes deliver ludens/liandrys/rylais/morello or shacos q delivers duskblade/trinityforce/etc or his R delivers bork/bloodrazor/etc Champion gets 1 garunted auto lvl 9 on anyone, and 2 if he has R, thats why he feels like crap. And thats why when assasin items/runes that do damage get nerfed, shacos winrate PLUMMETS fast.
Kaioko (NA)
: Because unlike any of the other champions you mentioned, Tryn really doesn't have any type of hard CC/Ranged abilities/inherent tankyness which is why it was decided upon his release that he should be able to ultimate through CC. I agree that the champion design hasn't aged well, but he's not game breaking either.
he wasnt originally released with it, it was added, and it was because he was garbo tier or god tier and was super binary based on matchup and couldnt receive any changes to make him balanced so they took the reliablity rout instead of the counter pick one and let him R anytime during a mini rework ------------- i think
: > [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-20T19:25:11.820+0000) > > Alistar can Ult while CCd and so can a few other champions. > > Its not exclusively Trynd. If Tryn gets himself stunned on a veigar cage or focused down while Malz ulted,its not fair to leave him vulnerable when the invul is the central piece of his kit. > CC doesnt kill you and his entire shtick is not dying Alistar's ultimate exclusively says REMOVE CC so it's obvious he can and I can't think of any other champs that can use abilities while silences and your logic on the cage/malz ult makes no sense because if that were the case Kayle should be able to use her ult while CC'd. So should ekko. Kayle kept her ultimate after her rework because it was core to her kit. Same for Ekko his ultimate basically defines him. Kayle has no mobility and only a speed boost whereas Tryndamere does he also has a slow just like kayle that doesn't exactly have to be in melee range and is a lot easier to use than Kayle's Q. His ultimate is badly designed and should be changed it's not healthy for gameplay and its not fun to play against someone. It's almost as bad as Ezreal/Kassadin getting free summoner spells in their kit
ekko originally could use it in pbe/original design, it also costed 0 mana, he received updates before live to make him vulnerable to cc, then updates later that gave a mana cost to his R. Fact is, tryndamere IS BALANCED around that R working like it does.
: It only starts mitigating damage once he takes what would otherwise be a lethal hit, so if he couldn't use it while CCed, he would have to use it early and waste part of it. That would probably mean a buff to its duration so that he can still expect to get five seconds of being immortal at 1 health. Of course, the problem then is that he might occasionally be free to ult right before dying, giving him more than 5 seconds of being immortal at 1 health.
Resulting in him just using it to take turrets with the full 6/7/8 or 9 second duration, doing the inting sion strat and ruining any teamcomp with limited or no cc. Becoming a insanely broken tp powered counterpick.
: > [{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T22:53:38.682+0000) > > That's really stupid logic you got there. Riot's entire reworking project started because champions have unfun/unhealthy and otherwise difficult to balance/really oudated kits. Regardless of what elo they're good in. I played vs him before making this post as garen and won vs him, doesn't mean it wasn't infuriating to deal with. Tryndamere is seriously one of the easiest people to lane against because of his simple and predictable kit. I've never heard people complain about Tryndamere ingame, I only know of low elos that call him OP because "omg he literally cant die, no counterplay!". The only time i've even had a problem against him is when he can splitpush for free, but thats up to how your team plays against him strategically. And for his ult, it can't be stopped by any means because its SPECIFICALLY for when he is low HP unlike all other invulnerabilities that offer strategy at all times like kindred/kayle/taric. Counter him with your champion/build, try to burst him because theres plenty of times that Tryndameres die so fast they couldn't even react to press R. And when he DOES press R, you can still CC him and wait it out.
The simpler a kit is, the more your champion matters more than your skill. If tmere had no E spin couldnt cast R during cc, but gained up to 200% ad and the flat ad on his Q passive, he would be "simple" and "easy to understand/beat" with certain champs, but it wouldnt stop him from literally right clicking your turret ina 1v1 lvl 6 and winning 3 times ina row.
: > [{quoted}](name=Slim Gragas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-20T20:24:12.286+0000) > > You try playing Tryndamere without his ultimate, and thats why he can use it whenever he wants. Because the moment he'd spin into an enemy team's face he would get deleted without it. Its just a part of the kit. He's not a teamfighter anyway. He's supposed to be strong at dueling not unfair. If a Tryndamere is in a teamfight (unless he's got 50 kills early on) then he's playing him wrong. Plenty of champions have to time their abilities right (including squishy ones) or else they get screwed he should be no exception
Would you rather fight a tmere that cant cast R while cced ----------- but gained 15 more potential ad from Q passive and 50 more base healing and his R lasted 1.5 and 3 seconds longer based on lvl instead?
FSRER (EUNE)
: Why are people now complaining about tryndamere? Because tryndamere no longer goes duelist/fighter items like he used to (bork statik ie) but instead full cooldown or he will die even if he ults, before he reaches the enemy team. And god, damnit. Tryndamere is one of the easiest champions to counter with almost anything! You play a tank? Alright, get frozen heart. You play a duelist? Alright, go in, go out. You play a ranged poke abomination (what is wrong with you?) at toplane? Alright, don't waste your escape abilities on poking him and just play safe. He will eventually dive you if you do any of these and if you have played the lane properly he will just die under your tower and look like an idiot for doing so.
outdated unfun champ that turns into a stat stick everytime they change items, either broken or useless much like udyr. He is just 1 of many. But this post is just about how strange it is his R is the only GTFO button that works through cc that doesnt break it.
nm1010 (NA)
: Because, as we have learned throughout the years, making abilities that break fundamental game rules are not good for game health. You end up with things like "true stealth" or items and summoners on a basic ability. Or on the other side of things, champions like Swain who are limited more than others (his tether is the only one broken by loss of vision in the game). I would argue that any newer champion that breaks core game mechanics is immediately one of the most hated champions in the game. I don't even think Trynd is particularly a problem, but that kind of design philosophy is. I would bet that the mechanic is removed if/when he gets a rework, is balanced around having a cleanse, or removed after his mandatory 3-6 months in the LCS spotlight.
: Why can Tryndamere ult through any CC, including silence?
> [{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k78HhjEs,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-20T18:25:56.189+0000) > > Literally why is he the ONLY champion in a game with a handicap on an ult like that champs with similar abilities don't get that handicap and actually have a weakness to it other than just run away and hope he can't kill you during it. > > {{champion:266}} old revive passive made him able to move slowly and couldn't attack during the revive period. Now on his ult he has to get a kill to activate it > > {{champion:36}} ultimate requires him to use a chunk of hp before he gets the healing. Even then his healing is cut down by grevious wounds and even with that he's still able to be hurt and potentially die during it > > {{champion:245}} ultimate is telegraphed showing where he will be placed after resetting and while he's backtracking he can't use any abilities or move because he's stuck in that animation > > {{champion:10}} ultimate prevents her from attacking and has a highly telegraphed circle to show where her attack will land ON a delay. > > There are others that I don't want to go through the list of everyone but you get the point, so why can Tryndamere get a free pass on his ultimate which is unhealthy for the game. > > Don't give me that "just kite him" bull either. Not everyone is able to kite someone who dashes on a refreshable CD has a slow and can RNG himself (r%%%%%ed design to give crit that early) to killing you. > > This champion is horribly designed and incredibly toxic and infuriating to play against. If you get a lead vs him he'll just ult and run away and you can't stop it because he can use it through ANY CC then eventually just split push effectively taking his laning partner out of the game forcing it to be a 4v4 to deal with him over and over because of how stupidly fast his kit allows him to splitpush and take towers. > > His ultimate needs to be changed to just taking reduced damage or gaining a shield so that he has actual counterplay other than sitting in the lane with him and screaming like an old man for him to get off your lawn Because riot wanted to buff his 45% winrate self, but didnt wanna buff him by extending the time of his R or increasing his mobility or damage so they increased his reliability. They didnt want tmere to end up being one of those *counter pick or lose* style champs that default won or lost with no interaction/counterplay, so now he is how he is.
: They need to do something about the gray health bar. It's too crazy.
That shields the most broken 1 point wonder in league.
Barso55 (NA)
: was jungle noc last game against a horrible top lane kench. Guy overextended 24/7 and picked every fight he could even if it was unreasonable (by normal lol logic). I ganked him and killed him like 4 times within the first 10 minutes. He had sunfire cape and a kill or two. I was like 7/1/4 and he was like 1/2/0 with even farm. He was gonna take top turret if I didnt ult in. I ulted in and used combo, feared him etc, he killed me under turret with like 35% hp left. This is supposed to be a support champ. Absolute bullshit. Although, if I timed my spellshield for his devour would have probably won. Still, broken AF.
wouldnt have won tbh, if you spell shield the devour he doesnt consume the stacks, so he will just stun you via q, you were dead regardless, its just Would HE have died after. im guessing no because he can shield 2 or 3 times per fight if he shields earlier.
: That and release tahm was also a scaling champ, riot slowly powercreeped his early game and took the damage off of his ultimate and put onto his passive so he doesn't have to get points into his R to get his damage. The only way tahm can be balanced as a solo laner is if he is a scaling champ, his kit is literally designed to stall the game and prevent picks / rotate lanes but when it gets the damage it needs it`s effectiveness on the offensive explodes....and right now its getting that damage earlygame for free. Right now, the only thing tahm scales with is how many points he has in his Q..
And health, which is kinda the biggest problem as with 1k hp he gains 15, 30, 45 on hit damage and on spell damage, at 2k hp its 30, 60, 90 its really unfun to fight a dude with frozen mallets 700 bonus hp rocking 1250 base health, and multiple shields or 1 90% hp shield, that also has more damage per auto than you with a trinityforce/spear/bork.
Moody P (NA)
: mage bias is hard core in this game and mages shouldn't be able to wreck towers even half as well as they can now
Agreed on reking towers, If they have that much aoe power and range and such they shouldnt have so much anti structure objective damage too. It results in a powerstruggle that removes the idea of AD and AP and just turns the game into a battle between stronger champions. If my champ kills yours every time we trade if we trade, you will stop trading, and i will take your turret REGARDLESS of what type of champ I am ad or ap. Before i had to KILL you on a mage to take that turret, now I can just take it while your under it, well I used to be able to, now im run down by your irelia/tahmkench and sit under my turret watching, then a wild neeko appears, running circles around top and mid laners, better buff the yuumi because 25% winrate champ has low winrate because infinite sustain isnt good enough if it cant 1 shot for adcs to not hard int. Oh wait Now that we buffed her and adcs learned they have 9 health bars, she has a 60-70% winrate on mains, oh well better renerf her /shrugs rant over sorry
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Eonslegacy

Level 73 (NA)
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