: That generally hasn't been true for those who ranked Season 1-5. They just recycle their good ole standing from the days of League where you could 1v5 when your team wasn't reliable. When they get their placements for the following season, they generally always start high Gold/low Plat, and get to avoid the toxic Silver/Low Gold/Bronze community entirely. I know...... I'm one of them :)
I find that hard to believe since you’re stuck in Silver
Leonerdo (NA)
: Retribution Paladin? The WoW spec that was OP at one point? Was it like the best leveling spec in Classic or something?
Lol Paladins didn’t have damage in classic, couldn’t even get into a raid as retribution
Ruthenox (NA)
: Not ending the game to BM in ranked should warrant a temp ban.
: Healer supports need more income
Willing to bet that you play too safe to properly benefit from spellthief, should just got coin.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Trash nerfs, Trash buffs
Everyday you complain about another 1-2 champions that are broken
: Problem with mages: 1 build path
To be honest item diveristy looks pretty stale in every lane
: Not possible when she presses R and is invisible except for brief 0.25s windows. Riot should have doubled all of vayne's CDs to compensate for this buff.
It’s a team game, just have someone play Malphite or Mumu and just ult on top of her.
: > [{quoted}](name=Psyrix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zQdUrPW2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-08T09:37:11.720+0000) > > Lol, yh.. i've said before that a good "nerf" would really just be an adjust: Shift some of the power of the first proc of Q into its latter procs. I do think if you get hit by the empowered E, u should be punished more than if you got hit by initial E because there's clear counterplay to it: Don't stay in ur minion wave/grouped tightly together. While i do agree in a sense, the level 2 burst of Neeko is still way too high to be healthy. Most of it is the base damage anyways, which at level 5 is 400 base damage for all 3 hits, with E adding in another about 100.... not too bad for the 9 burst or so. for level 1 Q it is 200 damage with an extra 70ish, and with most champions being about 600 health.... 1/3rd to 1/2 of a champions health bar disappearing just because they hit level 2? The enemy is forced to play more safe, which means they will be zoned off just by the Neeko standing by their wave. If they are any kind of shorter ranged champion like Leblanc or Kassadin, they are unable to even farm. I even took Neeko top and the Darius on the enemy team was absolutely unable to do a thing about it. (admittedly they were fairly new, but unless they were able to dodge the E it would have ended up very similar anyways.) The darius walked to lane and because his wave was there by tower, he couldnt farm at all without talking LITERALLY half his health in just E Q. no autos, no R, just E Q. Lowering the base damage early of the entire Q, but then having it end up the same would help this out a lot. Because the E is easier to hit than you might think because of the speed boost that it gets when it procs a 2 second instant root (which probably lowering the root duration early would be a good idea too, maybe 1 second then gaining .2 per level to make it so that someone isnt FORCED to take a full 3 hit Q early on would be something that wouldnt kill Neeko, but make her at least more manageable to play against and still give her the satisfaction of bursting people down... but you would have to choose between the full damage, or the longer root, or the more damage on W (which i highly doubt anyone maxes first, but it would atleast be a bit more viable than just assured Q first no matter what)
There are worse champs champs to deal with and her skills are relatively easy to dodge
: The backlash for the mobile game was extremely heavy, not to mention Activision is becoming more involved with them when before they were hands off by doing "cost cutting" measures. It's why HoTS' E-Sports scene was just canned out of nowhere along with half the support team let go, OWL told to tidy up their expenses and WoW's current undergoing a "review" with the Vanilla release put on indefinite hold and likely a budget and team cut incoming. Blizz are currently getting the "EA with every dev they buy" treatment, kinda their own fault for their lavish expenditures and becoming incredibly complacent, Blizz will still be around, but they won't be the same company they once were, very much like the fall of Rare.
HoS was a bad move from the start, I’m surprised it lasted this long. Sucks about Vanilla since I’m really looking forward to it
Exin0 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Errastas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vQYom9Uj,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2019-01-07T10:09:07.353+0000) > > They could drop Diablo and it would not even come close to being the end of Blizzard. they dont drop it and nobody is against mobile diablo BUT their fanbase are pc gamers and they should at last throw them some bone like some trailer or something ad not middlefinger
Blizzard is tight lipped about their work, they showed what was next for Diablo. I’m happy with a phone game. I also know that Diablo 4 is still coming, so there’s no reason to be upset
Exin0 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dorans Pants,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vQYom9Uj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-06T23:15:23.912+0000) > > People at riot game are the J.R.R martins of gaming. No one believes them anymore that they will deliver. > > I bet it´s all to cut costs. They know players have already waited for a ludicrous amount of time, they can make them wait even longer (indefinitely). > > Event´s, new champs, and skins, lcs on the other hand, are all monetizable so it´s obvious that 99% of their attention will lie there. And with such a large champion pool it´s easy to ignore old champs and replace them with new ones. > > you just have to consistently do a few things here and there so people don´t notice that in reality, you are just doing the bare minimum. > > + obligatory small indie company meme It looks like original player base no longer concern them and they are looking for new players to milk but be carefull when you betray your core players look at Blizzard they slit their own throat with annoucing Diablo Immortal without anything for their core playerbase witch create backlash spiraling out of control and this mistake can easily spell end of Blizzard
They could drop Diablo and it would not even come close to being the end of Blizzard.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Errastas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EVfg07rK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-05T03:47:02.784+0000) > > Mage supports keep tanky support in check, without them tank support will stomp enchanters. Not really, don't forget that enchanters can also poke melee supports in lane. If you bait their engage, you have about 10-20 seconds to harass depending on the enemy champion. Except that it's actually balanced and not "lol i still outtrade you in melee range because my combo does 50-60% of your hp at level 3."
Same can be said about baiting/dodging a mages poke. Usually there’s nothing they can do until cds are up. For example if you dodge Zyras snare/2 seed poke, she’s useless for 10-20 seconds
: most players if they cant blindly pick their champ and blindly build and just play as they always do they think its unfair and to alter any of these to a match up they dont consider counter play. zyra support isnt new it has been there since season 5. is she a pain in the ass? sure. but there is clear counter play to her. me personally i really like picking leona into her with ignite and wait for her to waste her root. she is typically bad vs champs with mobility /dashes such as a leona E Q combo cuz its usually too quick for her to be able to land her root. part of the reason she got pushed out of mid lane into bot.
lol it’s weird because I’ll play Leona into Zyra to stomp her, but also play Zyra into Leona to stomp her
: Stop Putting Mages BOT!
Mage supports keep tanky support in check, without them tank support will stomp enchanters.
: then you play stupid passive get out of lane phase and hopefully dont give free kills. if you are facing a zyra as a support i suggest a healer so you can spam heal vs her poke and keep u and the adc in lane. taking second wind and revitalize as a healer will help regen hp as she pokes.
This. People ask for counterplay, but refuse to play passive/defensive or counter pick if they’re are picking after. Heal/shield support and focus on healing her poke, not trying to go toe to toe with her. If you dodge her snare and she used two seeds with it, you have about 10-20 seconds of her being useless. Have your support counter pick her. Nothing wrong with having to respect her damage in lane, no different than having to position correctly against an assassin.
: Mage Supports
Majority of the champs you play a lot are not “healthy for the game”. You got smacked by a Brand so you came to whine about it.
MrSuitss (NA)
: Problem is if you pick any sup bot that does not DMG it better be a tank. The days of healing and shielding your ADC are gone unless you playing LuLu. I always pick mages bot like {{champion:63}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:99}} . They all have CC, tones of DMG, easy poke. Some of them even have shield on top of that. So why pick {{champion:40}} ? Shield is weak. The heal you gotta just stand there as they beat on you. Do almost no DMG. Until they fix the DMG in the game people will just keep picking DMG sups or big Tanks.
Because a good enchanter can stop mage supports.
: Pantheon: Honest Questions by an angery canadain
Probably because Panth falls off and Irelia is scary the entire game.
: This. Riot has a bad track record for not making things be consistent across the board. For instance, Zyra's plants will trigger and fetch you a Dark Harvest stack, yet Heimerdinger's turrets will not? It's difficult to learn the game and interactions when the rules change on every given scenario.
I’ve noticed that sometimes her plants won’t. I haven’t bothered to keep track of it every time, but a few times that I’ve attempted to get my stack with q/plant auto it hasn’t counted. Which then makes me reread DH info to make sure I’m not going crazy
: i really wonder why the champs that are non crit and good against zyra brand got better winrates makes me wonder what would happen if dmg supports got nerfed and adcs could farm better and get faster items
Is MF a viable pick in diamond? I don’t like matching into MF as any mage support
: nothing but if a brand W fucks you so hard that you cant even cs or move in aa range to the cs you think thats okey ? i dont want to lose 200hp for every cs i try to take edit: i saw that you are gold i dont know how these players are in gold since i am more like D3-D2 but a brand can perfectly zone you out fo melee minons if he is good you forget about the 14g ranged minons getting the melee is a pain in the ass
I guess I’ve never really pictured it from the adcs point of view, I just support. I’m never really worried about brands, I just play Zyra or Vel and poke them out constantly. Then again there’s a huge difference between gold and diamond.
: nerf there base dmg is all i say so they cant snowball as supports
And what’s wrong with a damage support?
Errastas (NA)
: You played all the champs you’re complaining about s7 as support.
If the game can have an assassin support, we can mage supports. Mage supports keep tank supports in check, and enchanters keep mage supports in check.
: Zyra again is not a support. She should be in the mage category. So that argument is thrown out the window as well. Nice try though. Smh. CC is not a main support ability. Burst mages have them. Assassins have them (slows), unique playstyles have them (Kennen, stun), etc. And real support abilities are just shields/heals. Her shield is for herself, not others. So again, just one, bumbo. Good bye.
You played all the champs you’re complaining about s7 as support.
: Zyra again is not a support. She should be in the mage category. So that argument is thrown out the window as well. Nice try though. Smh. CC is not a main support ability. Burst mages have them. Assassins have them (slows), unique playstyles have them (Kennen, stun), etc. And real support abilities are just shields/heals. Her shield is for herself, not others. So again, just one, bumbo. Good bye.
Support is a role not a specific set of champs.
Dr Dog (NA)
: i can agree on the first part even though i play mage supports i know im not supporting in that lane, im the dmg not the adc, but karma and morg actually are supports just for the fact they actually do focus on keeping the adc alive with peel and their shields where as brand or zyra i could give less of a shit about my ad if i can get a double off of it because i can just be the carry anyway
I care about my adc as Brand/Zyra and I show it by being the lane enforcer. Beating the bad guys up so they’re too scared to try and hurt my squishy friend.
Dr Dog (NA)
: well you get your support item first, but your second core item on her is {{item:3151}}
Seems a pointless first item. I’d rather go for Sorc boots and Oblivion orb first for that 33 pen, or Ludens first. Don’t really buy Liandrys unless they have a few tanks
: I agree but her main issue that she suffers is her base on her skills is fairly low when compared to other botlane support mages like {{champion:63}} {{champion:161}} . My biggest issue is that most of her damage comes mostly from her plants dps and less from her actual skills. She needs a higher skill cap that revolves around her actually landing her skills, instead of hit some seedlings in the backline and let them focus whoever they hit.
Her damage comes from landing skills while dropping W seeds so they focus the target
Dr Dog (NA)
: {{item:3151}} buffed which she rushs, constant poking with spell thief and getting most of the kills in lane giving her a lot of gold, her e getting buffed to a 2 sec root that goes through targets which is a change that never needed to happen
I never rush that item and rarely buy it, but that could be just me.
: The support role had a boost to it's income earlier in the year (last year? oh god they're blending together now) and we're seeing the results. Champions with high damage output can simply be...champions with high damage output that clicked the support role, and actual supports and tanks can't deal with the output. Healers can't outheal it due to changes, again, earlier in the year where sustain was too strong against your traditional support+ADC lanes so they nerfed all healing. Tanks support can't out-tank it due to their survivability only 'coming online' in mid-game after an item or two. And since the majority of the damage is split between a AP heavy support and an AD carry, what can they do?
Mages supports > Tanks. An enchanter will beat mages if they aren’t focused on silly trades and treating bot lane like a CoD match. Like a few people have stated above all Zyra has is her all in, dodge anything and she’s out of the fight aside from trying to make plants with whatever seeds her passive is spawning.
: What tickles my butthole is that there are AP mages that works so well with rylai / liandry that they can afford to get 3k+ health along with zhonya, still deal a tonfest of damage and never fear of getting killed because they can throw their whole spell rotation. That's... not fun.
: > [{quoted}](name=Errastas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fv6AM5bn,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-29T03:55:10.190+0000) > > I like to play mage supports a lot and they have plenty of counters. I cry when I see {{champion:44}}, he shuts down most mage supports with his ult. What mage support's burst takes more than 2.5 sec? Taric's ult is good for towerdives and ganks, but not really for stopping the mage support's burst.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: you can counter brand support with ashe support easily.
: > [{quoted}](name=MorgManBasher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fv6AM5bn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-28T13:17:04.165+0000) > > If you think Brand support is OP, I don't know what to tell you. > > But I guess I understand he's a noob stomper for those who don't know how to dodge and rush boots. > > I consider Zyra just a better Brand tbh, unless the enemy team has HP stacking tanks. Except you literally can't dodge his ult.
I like to play mage supports a lot and they have plenty of counters. I cry when I see {{champion:44}}, he shuts down most mage supports with his ult.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: THIS^^^^^^^^^^ but some ppl just dont get this. 200 base dmg on his maxed Q 150 base dmg on his E. That is a piece of shit dmg, with shit scaling. 50% on his Q 35% on his E. All of his dmg is in his passive. Avoid atleast 1 of his spells and he wont do dmg, until he buys liandries, and even then you can negate most of that with MR items.
People are too lazy to build anything defensive early on, I rush Sorc boots and Oblivion Orb and I’m doing true dmg at the point. Like players will pick Raka or other enchanters and try to play aggro af, then keep trying to trade when behind and complain after that the champ is broken. Support mages have enough counters, just learn a few and you’ll have an easy life.
KazKaz (OCE)
: I mean hook supports are still really good....but mage supports are just frustrating and confusing, confusing because why are they being sent bot and not mid???
: That's one thing people tend to forget about supports: They *have* to offer more to botlane than just damage. Even the most greedy and damage-oriented of supports still has CC. Brand still has a stun, Zyra still has a root *and* a knockup, Shaco still has a fear. Ezreal has nothing. If you have no utility and no CC (not even a decent slow), you're not a support.
: thats dumb considering what mage supports bring being damage are what tanks are supposed to be good against and everyone else swears that tanks counter mages.
Mages > Tanks > Enchanters > Mages. For the most part
: its hard not dying cause they either rush me or gank me
Don’t be afraid to sit back further and not engage instantly. You could also try building a defensive item early on when you’re losing lane.
: While i agree with the steal kills part mage supports shouldnt have decent base damage and also scale well with ap. (not talking brand because his base damage far surpasses decent and is heavenly) Mage supports should have really poor early game damage to scale up as a second mage that comes on line slightly later than the mid lane mage. Mage supports doing tons of damage early pushes out tanks supports and enchanter/ defeinsive supports.
Mage supports are meant to beat tank supports. Healing/shield supports would be doing better if they didn’t try to trade every second with a mage.
: Brand is just the worst offender of one of the game's biggest problems: letting the units built to be solo-lane damage dealers into the "support" role. They steal kills from the Marksmen who are SUPPOSED to be the ones farming up in that lane, and most of them don't buy ANY supporting items. They're just mid-laners who wanted to cheat the queue by stealing another classes' entire slot. Support slot Mages are nothing more than they same crybabies who used to pick troll-supports just because the matchmaker threw them into the role and nobody would give in to their tantrums to swap spots.
“Steal kills” that’s a load of the bs. Most mage supports do all the work while the adc farms. I love to play traditional supports, but you can’t always carry a lane with those.
: Conveniently ignoring the times that all of the first list were bad, or *why* so many of the other list are kept bad. {{champion:122}} Was terrible this season until Conquerer existed. Months of being bad even in low ELO, where he's historically been strong. {{champion:104}} Did this champion even exist for the first few months this season? Or for most of last season? {{champion:202}} Dude didn't even exist for the past year until Stormrazor became a thing. {{champion:121}} Been a lot of up and down. Vanished completely for the past couple months tho. {{champion:64}} Completely ignoring the largest nerf he's gotten yet, where Riot **removed** one of his core items without compensation, are we? {{champion:236}} Dude didn't even exist this year until crit changes. Still don't see him much, too. {{champion:555}} Statistically still a bit weak. Also brand new. Hasn't had enough *time* for many changes yet. {{champion:107}} Dude. Even *this* guy vanished in my games. Legit I have no idea where the fuck he went. Went from being all I saw to being less common than Ryze. {{champion:91}} What buffs, though? {{champion:67}} Vayne hasn't been useful at *all* this season. Even the buff she got still did nothing to make her be picked. {{champion:157}} Wasn't the only buff he actually got this season done when he was at 42% winrate? {{champion:238}} Dude hasn't been buffed this season, ignoring the compensation one. (Also, for all assassins above, Domination nerfs are a thing). And...The others: {{champion:268}} There's a reason Azir isn't allowed to be strong anywhere. He's oppressive as fuck in low tier and broken enough that even Flex Tape can't fix him in high tier whenever he's allowed to be viable. {{champion:429}} Same issues as Azir, but on an AD champion instead of an AP one. {{champion:43}} Riot has no idea what the fuck to do with Karma right now. Along the same lines as {{champion:37}}, Riot's having a hard time figuring out if she's a support or a mage. She has way too much damage and too little utility for a support, and too much utility and too little damage for a mage. She can do half your health with a Q, but that's it then. No more combo to kill you with, but half your health on a Q is too much for a support. Karma'll be good once Riot figures out what direction to take, and then reworks half her kit. {{champion:85}} Dude was busted as fuck last year. And still was this year, because E+R+Nimbus Cloak+Zhonya's means you're incapable of avoiding his ult no matter who you are. Kennen needs a VGU before he's allowed to be viable again, because there's legit no counterplay to him if he is viable. {{champion:127}} Not quite sure why she's not good right now. Probably the same issues as Azir, but to a lesser extent: Oppressive in low-tier, too useful in coordinated play due to ult. {{champion:82}} As someone who actually does play Mordekaiser, please do not buff him. There is no buff that can fix Morde's problems without breaking him. He's too weak to kiting, but as soon as you reduce that weakness enough to make him useful, he'll be busted beyond belief. Just...Wait for his VGU. {{champion:111}} Not quite sure where this guy went, or why he hasn't been touched, honestly. {{champion:113}} Still too strong in high tier. Not even that she's low-tier oppressive, just high-tier (especially coordinated) strengths are too high. {{champion:17}} Generic oppressive champion who's historically been good for exactly two things: Pissing 9 people off at once because you picked Teemo, and making the game an effective 4v4, as you make both you and your opponent useless. Teemo needs to be left alone until his VGU comes around, and that's coming from a m6 Teemo. {{champion:106}} Statcheck with extremely little counterplay. You either can outrun him, or you can out-stat him in combat, or you die. He's a lot like Mordekaiser, where if you fix his issues he'll be busted as fuck. VGU is coming soon for a reason. {{champion:115}} Ziggs is bad because...Well...He's not. 50.74% winrate is fine. If Riot wants to buff him much more, they'd need to revert W demolishing towers so that they can buff him in other ways. Or they could just buff turret resistances, which would buff Ziggs indirectly by letting his W demolish be a bit more useful.
I love playing Teemo, but you’re right.. rarely does he ever fit into a team comp
Ryushiin (NA)
: Why do ppl hate support?
Supports are the babysitters of the team and whichever adc has the better babysitter wins.
: > maybe i could cope with the nerfs only to feel obscene levels of frustration when i was unable to oneshot an adc who was 2 levels below me Maybe ask yourself why you think it's okay for you to 1 shot the adc with such a an easily used kit? You literally jump out of invis with no reaction time, and you want to 1 shot the enemy carries while CCing the rest of the enemy team who you didnt Q click on. Sorry but wukong deserved nerfs, nothing about his kit is a healthy thing for an assassin, imagine if kat's ult applied grounded effect and a slow around her, she'd be bonkers. Wukong is an old relic of a champion from a simpler times where his kit was considered a good example for a skrimisher, but slowly he turned into a point and click assassin with the engage that can rivale some tanks. He needs a small gameplay update, but leaving him at the state of 1 shotting carries is not a good place to leave him at until that happens. Having 54% winrate in 3 roles is absolutely nerf worthy.
I’d still rather get one shotted by a Wukong than Rengar and half the other mobile AF assassins.
: He has been an ok support for a while now. He has pretty nice base damage so he isn't as gold reliant as other mages. So if you enjoy mages and want to do damage as support he or zyra would be a good pick. But he isn't very good at peeling so keep that in mind when looking at your comp
Not sure if Zyras in a good spot right now, but Vel and Brand seem to be doing really well.
: Likkrit thinks that he is not very good now ,because of golder nerf (or smth like this), but I think it is matters of high elo. Brand is good support: a) if you feel your adc will suck b) if you just want to carry the game, as he has way more carry potential than usual sup c) you don't have any AP on your team d) you want to have guaranteed good laning phase (some exceptions in place). So basically as sup he has No utlility except stun, very high damage, usually good laning phase, great teamfighting, somewhat less dependency on team performance compare to most sups. His good lanning phase can feed you and your adc and help speed up the game to end it earlier. If you are in Bronze imho it is the best sup to rank up.
Chunks teams like a boss if you can position properly and proc his passive on multiple targets.
: > [{quoted}](name=Errastas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2az2jigh,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-11-11T23:18:15.460+0000) > > I mean I'm winning on Leo because I'm running damage runes and buying bruiser items instead of tank/support items. too each his own but leos highest winrate is with the resolve tree.
I didn't mean for that to come across as I can't win with the resolve tree. The resolve tree while not as tanky as I'd like it to be, is still good. I'm just finding precision paired with the burst tree more fun on Leo.
: "tanks are so bad after runes changes"
I mean I'm winning on Leo because I'm running damage runes and buying bruiser items instead of tank/support items.
Chase 5 (NA)
: QOL: Network Check for Ranked Matches
: I really am fine with all the support items. Supports got some much needed power in that update and i love that. The main issue is prior to that update was adcs being out of control 3 shotting most champions and 5 shotting tanks that had defensive augements. the only thing that survived 5 shots were darius with his q heal or another adc who also had {{item:3072}} and {{item:3153}} or {{item:3812}}. Supports needed the power they got but all of their power can only be experessed through allies and there fore it went onto the class that already was the only class that mattered.
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Errastas

Level 126 (NA)
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