: > [{quoted}](name=ExcessiveProtest,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7IXAKq5X,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-02T20:56:20.213+0000) > > [...] Would like to say, the Charm thing has been asked for since before the removal hit live; nailing a skillshot on a dashing target for the save was one of the biggest skill expression moments she had, and it hasn't interacted right with dashes since the removal anyway. [...] That's true. I myself have complained about the removal too, but after I played her for a while without the dash stopping effect I have to admit Riot did the right change. The Charm was really oppressive(now days it may be even broken because CC and mobility are much more important). With "...pulls out a random Ahri buff **nobody asked for**." I meant that Ahri players have accepted the removal and dont insist on keeping it anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Kumiho Ahri,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7IXAKq5X,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-07-02T21:41:38.081+0000) > > That's true. I myself have complained about the removal too, but after I played her for a while without the dash stopping effect I have to admit Riot did the right change. The Charm was really oppressive(now days it may be even broken because CC and mobility are much more important). > > With "...pulls out a random Ahri buff **nobody asked for**." I meant that Ahri players have accepted the removal and dont insist on keeping it anymore. It is a bit out of place for her specifically to have anti-mobility, like Rickless said during the de-work, but at the same time it goes toward addressing some of her current problems. While her Ult used to make her _the_ high-mobility Champ, the rampant mobility creep has steadily chipped away at that. She also is comparatively lacking in high moments, since her identity is tied to a rather long-cooldown Ultimate, and a fairly common tactic is to dash through her Charm, sometimes attacking after anyway because of its odd interaction, and out-damage her. All opinions, but that's the feeling I've gotten. The Charm adds a bit more reason to pick her in specific matchups, discourages brute force countering, and adds more chances for dramatic interrupts and saves. ~~Something something big plays~~ As for balance... I highly doubt that Charm amp nerf is gonna cut it, yeah. The dash interrupt is conditional, and it could hurt in longer fights when cooldowns come back out of sync, but just the effects on Leblanc and Lee Sin probably outweigh the lowered damage against a juggernaut she was never killing anyways. But who knows, the 5.2 Q Homeguard seemed pathetic next to a 44% reduction in combo damage, and that netted a 57% win rate.
: The compensation skin for the compensation nerf [Ahri skin prediction Halloween/Winter]
Glad I'm not the only one catching the nerf/skin pattern here, everybody always jumps straight to buff=skin. Would like to say, the Charm thing has been asked for since before the removal hit live; nailing a skillshot on a dashing target for the save was one of the biggest skill expression moments she had, and it hasn't interacted right with dashes since the removal anyway. Assuming they don't go with the usual of whatever skin line happens to release in late August/early September, most likely something Halloween related. Pool Party will be too early (and I'm still convinced they won't make it out of spite at this point), Heartbreaker seems a bit close to her regular character, and while a Christmas skin is possible, I think that pun is a bit _too _ painful.
: > [{quoted}](name=ExcessiveProtest,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bTULlFIO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-25T02:54:23.487+0000) > > What they said: Ahri kind of fits the seductress part, to a lesser degree than other examples, but pretty much fails the heroic requirement. She's never been involved in major events and has shown no desire to change that. Xayah calls her a traitor for not getting involved, and Irelia complains that she should stop fooling around and help fight in-game. She may end up getting more involved if they ever continue her story, but at the moment she doesn't really fit any kind of heroic anything. Well since Xayah is a terrorist. We can say Ahri is just your normal territorial Ionian citizen at this point.
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bTULlFIO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-25T08:39:29.027+0000) > > Well since Xayah is a terrorist. We can say Ahri is just your normal territorial Ionian citizen at this point. Pretty much: Ahri's one of the only big names actively avoiding the big conflicts right now. Not a hero or villain, just doing her own thing. Possibly a large number of Vastaya are hesitant to join Xayah's group due to the more extreme tendencies, and Ahri being a living legend undermines their legitimacy if she doesn't join. Or Xayah found out about the artist, she is confirmed racist after all.
darkdill (NA)
: Would Ahri count under the "Heroic Seductress" trope?
What they said: Ahri kind of fits the seductress part, to a lesser degree than other examples, but pretty much fails the heroic requirement. She's never been involved in major events and has shown no desire to change that. Xayah calls her a traitor for not getting involved, and Irelia complains that she should stop fooling around and help fight in-game. She may end up getting more involved if they ever continue her story, but at the moment she doesn't really fit any kind of heroic anything.
: Ahri has a 54% win rate in Plat+
I dun geddit, what does Ahri's win rate have to do with nerfing Irelia?
: Which Skin line will Ahri invade next? [Poll]
Pool Party has been in high demand for years, and they're very much aware of that. Heartbreaker is an obvious one too, and a darker one is in rather high demand, possibly as a halloween skin. A Christmas one has been talked about as well, just for the sake of terrible puns. Therefore, going by current patterns, her next skin will be... None of the above. Instead she'll be added to whatever skin line happens to be released in late August/early January. Unless she doesn't get nerfed this year, in which case she'll get nothing.
: Can we please please please PLEASEEEEE NERF AHRIS MOBILITY?!
No. Her identity revolves around mobility, which comes more or less entirely from an Ultimate with a longer than average cooldown. Other Champions have no obligation to stand still and let you walk straight at them, just because you picked someone with triple their health pool instead of a dash.
Rodnii (NA)
: Zoe is best wife: change my mind
https://i.imgur.com/yjmmayH.png
: Ahri gets nerfs while having a new skin in the pipes
I say it every time, Ahri always gets nerfs with skins. Every time she has gotten a skin, it was after nerfs, without fail. The real conspiracy is that the others are only getting nerfed because Ahri hates sharing the stage.
: Something is wrong with the Ahri nerf on PBE
That's because Ahri gets nerfs when she gets skins, usually before their release. It's the reverse of everyone else: if she gets a skin, she gets nerfed, without fail. SG? -10% ratio on W and R Arcade? Charm doesn't stop dashes Challenger and Academy? Everything in her kit was nerfed that year after the 5.2 incident. Honorable mention: got buffed once season 4, no nerfs, no skins Popstar? All damage lowered, funneled into original Charm amp, along with other nerfs Before that patch notes become a mess, but Foxfire landed between two nerfs to her Ultimate cooldown. Dynasty and Midnight were release skins, which clearly means she was a monster during internal testing. Since she's probably getting the leaked skin in a month or so, and these nerfs will hit in two weeks, we're exactly on schedule.
: S- on ahri
KDA is good, Ahri has fairly low objective damage requirements so that's good, Champ damage could be higher for an S but should be okay for the game length, vision should be higher (you're measuring against people who keep most of their Blue Wards up all game), damage taken should be lower for an S, and CS should be higher. Keep in mind that for S and S+, you're not just measuring against the average player. You're measures against players who are already good with that Champion playing games where nearly everything goes in their favor. Keep at it, ward more, dodge more, and if the game drags on, don't forget to pad your CS by wiping out waves here and there, in shorter games CS requirements are disproportionately lower. Unfortunately you have to be greedy when you're measuring against players who snowball, roam to another lane for kills, and leave nothing for their ally, so the requirement goes up fast as the game goes on.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Thats definitely a new Ahri skin,with the crystal tails,which is kinda sad,since this would be Ahris second "pop"-skin. Whats kinda cool is the fact that it looks like the splash art is rearranged for each champion,essentially rotating the 4 around.
Think they're running out of ideas for her: last skin was Star Guardian, which was basically Academy with a higher budget. One before that was Arcade, which was kinda lacking thematically compared to the others (Final Fantasy Ezreal, Duck Hunt/lightgun Fortune, etc). Now we may be getting Popstar 2: Now With More Leather. Bad news is she gets nerfed every time she gets a skin, so expect damage nerfs proportional to the skin's cost. They like to target anything and everything except what causes problems in her kit, so Charm's duration will stay.
: Grades after games
Like they said, wards, farm, damage to Champs, objectives, etc. Judging by someone I know who regularly gets Bs and Cs as Ahri despite high KDA, are you continuously dealing damage throughout the game, or waiting back and engaging when someone else makes an opening? Especially as Ahri, if you're not poking frequently and jumping on every exploitable opening, you'll get rated against people who did and ended with the same KDA, but much more damage dealt.
: Revert the E duration buff but keep the reduced mana cost. Bring some scaling off her ultimate and give it to mostly her Q and some to her W, I guess? And yeah, give her an actual passive. The speed boost should stay (I guess) but if it were more interactive that'd be nice. No need to be going Mach 5 though.
Agree on the Charm and passive, though I'm willing to wait on the passive until they do some serious restructuring (Right now, it'd likely cost damage from somewhere else to get a real passive, and then we end up back in season 7). Ult ratio changes may be a bad idea, though: it's damage she can rarely access, and forces her closer since it's the shortest-range ability she has. Move the damage out, and she gets access to it at all times, and has less reason to Ult close. Then there's where to put it: buff W, and everyone gets mad about undodgeable damage. Buff Q, and you buff both her poke and her waveclear, and now you _really_ have a problem. What if the Ult damage started lower, but increased with each consecutive hit? Same overall if she commits, but a larger reduction if she has to use one defensively.
Swegmec (NA)
: Possible Ahri Nerfs + Analysis
1) Honestly, targeting the speed is rather pointless after the changes: it only kicks in after hitting an ability, and for a rather low amount already. Against melee, they usually have gap-closers, negating the speed increase/decrease. Against mages, the overwhelming majority have higher range than her, and again the speed only procs after she lands a spell, all of which means if they haven't hit her back already they're going to miss regardless. She's not getting close to teamfights without Ult dashes, making the increased speed redundant. Additionally, having the speed increase with the number of hits would either require refreshing the duration, making it a possible buff, or applying it for the remaining duration, which would mean a 36+% boost for... 0.5 seconds or so. Tl;dr: There really isn't enough power in the current passive to use it for rebalancing, you could probably outright remove it and there would be minimal difference. Actually, please do remove it, I still sometimes check it by accident when I'm looking for healing power. 2) I have to strongly disagree with changing the ratios: the true damage return is meant to punish people for getting hit on the telegraphed backswing. With those AP changes, you frontload the damage in mid-late game when items kick in, rewarding players less for landing the harder part (after applying penetration, since she targets squishy enemies). If anything, lowering the first ratio and increasing the second would reward the opponent more for dodging at all, but true damage buffs are something that should never be done lightly. As for the base damage changes, I can see the concept, but that may end up being a serious hit to her only waveclear, since she always maxes it first. Considering the Charm buff was at least partially done to address her mana issues after the mage changes, 30 less damage may very well hit hard enough to prevent her from functioning at all if the enemy decides to shove lane. It shouldn't end up being that big an issue, but 15 mana and 0.4 seconds didn't seem big either, and Lux mains can attest that waveclear is a delicate issue.
: Wait what about an Ahri skin?
Around the start of the year they did a video on upcoming skins, listing a few Champs who would get skins this year because they hadn't gotten any in too long, including Heimerdinger, Amumu, and Ahri ("Just kidding. Maybe.") ~~Cue people getting mad because they said Ahri and skin~~
: Your mention of Nidalee's spear is something I always wondered about this champion. Considering how people whined and complained about nidalee to the point riot reworked her spear into being a joke, why did they bring it back into the game? Shouldn't the lesson have been learned at that point? Also, if riot really wanted a nidalee spear back in the game, it should be on nidalee.
Frankly, without saying rude things about CT that have been said a thousand times, the best I can do is guess at their madness. That guess: because it rewards firing it backwards, from odd angles, and from far away, it has more skill expression, warning time, and counterplay, so it was acceptable. ...Thus it gets an AoE effect, more damage, lower cost, angled shots, and a longer cooldown. Also she gets an AoE slow/stun/AIM HERE sign, because a certain designer always has to add tools to mitigate the intended weakness of abilities. They like him for breaking rules, but some rules exist for a reason, and he fails far more than he succeeds. I lied about not saying mean things. Edit: it does lack Nidalee's extended Pounce Murder Mark, so being a bit stronger alone would be fair, relative to Nidalee. The rest of the bitching I stand by.
: Do you think Zoe needs a rework? As sad as that sounds.
Tl;dr: yes. Zoe's getting nerfed out of basic viability at this point, which is never acceptable, but there's nowhere to add power without drastically changing something or creating a new problem. * Pre-6, her Passive may be the least bad option for allocating power budget, since it requires AA range, but even then it loses counterability if a Flash ever drops, or she hits 6. * Her Q seems balanceable alone, but would at best be Nidaspear 2.0 if they relocated power into it, and with E would be unreasonably hard-hitting. * W is inconsistent, but at its best is disgustingly unfair in every way, and buffing it would worsen that. * E circumvents Q's balancing weakness, still rewards you for missing, and has no counter if it lands: retreat, and die by Q, or move into minions, and die by W. It's an AoE dodge or die after getting any amount of power that further rewards firing it at targets from offscreen with the wall effect, AoE, and initial slow. Offensively, the initial delay is a bonus, since it gives Zoe time to position for murder, and the target waking up means nothing to a Burst Mage with one other skillshot. If Q lands, you wake up and get to dodge... nothing. * R may be the worst part of her kit for balance purposes. It does no damage on its own, but it circumvents every weakness in her kit: it extends Q's range, lets her pick up W bubbles relatively safely, and largely trivializes landing E. Since she can auto during the jump, her passive loses its limitation. She may have to pick just one, but on a basic ability cooldown she doesn't lose much. And because it does no damage, and Zoe is a Burst Mage, that has to go somewhere else, meaning basic abilities, meaning level 3 murder combo. There is simply nowhere to put power in Zoe's current kit: nothing has enough counterplay to allow focusing power into it. She has no window of weakness since all damage is on basic abilities, and her Ult is just another basic ability to make combing easier. She's weak defensively (loses pickups flashing away, E delay is long enough to die), but has such an absurd amount of offensive potential that her best-case scenario inevitably becomes a balancing nightmare. Gut any one part, and the others become too strong after rebalancing.
: When will Ahri get her VU?
Probably never. Between Rito's ability to create problems faster than they fix them, the boards' tendency to downvote anything that says Ahri without the word nerf, and the fact that, after almost seven years, she has only gotten lower on the visual/art priority list*, I wouldn't count on it happening before the servers go down. *Excluding the one person on the skins team that keeps putting her into lines at random. Seriously, every other Arcade skin had some clear inspiration, Ahri's felt like someone just bludgeoned the team with a sign saying ARCADE every time they talked back.
: Can we get Yasou to a 100% ban rate?
We tried that when they reworked the ban system. He passed 100% ban rate, they promised to rework him into something bearable for both sides, four months of "still nothing solid" ensued. A year of silence later Ghostcrawler denied they ever said they'd rework him.
: Ahri Charm Bug
https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/954dr6/tf_blade_not_charmed_by_ahri_glitch/ Charm was overdue for more bugs anyway, at least it worked for more than two weeks this time. And doing nothing is still better than when it healed enemies to full.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: i see, was told they fixed it stopping unstoppable dashes thanks for informing me
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: ? they fixed charm stopping unstoppable dashes it still stop any stoppable dashes bruh
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Ahri is a better version of Zoe but people would tell you the opposite Ahri has better cc, better catching potential, zoe's CC is a stun that wears off if taking damage, ahri is a 2 sec stun basically since you move slowly. Ahri has better burst, zoe's E+Q+R damage is 750+230% ap, ahri's damage goes way beyond that especially with E damage amp and it can even break zoe's damage while counting zoe's passive and W damage. Her damage with a single R+E+W+Q is 804+193% ap increased to 964+231% with charm. If you decide to count zoe's passive and W damage, you can count her other 2 R damage. It goes to 1044 (1254 with charm damage amp)+ 263% ap (315% ap) and her R deals damage to 3 targets. While zoe's passive is 135+32.5% ap and her W damage is 195+55% ap Ahri has sustain The only thing zoe does better, is being able to get a random redemption on minions, that's it zoe has 49% win rate 10% pick rate ahri has 53.5% win rate 15% pick rate
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z5jllUvu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-05T06:01:10.306+0000) > ahri is a 2 sec stun basically since you move slowly **and also stops dashes** https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/784/what-year-is-it-robin-williams.jpg
: Is riot ever going to rework Ahri's Foxfire?
Last I heard Rito (I think Rickless) said it'd probably be at least a few years before they consider heavily changing Foxfire, which wasn't considered for replacement because of a lack of art people. As for those changes: 2 I'd rather not try for the same reason some people don't get Lich Bane: weaving Autos into the combo can already be awkward sometimes, and three with no attack speed would be even moreso when not Ulting. A temporary AS increase would help, but would still feel awkward, and would defeat the purpose of delaying the damage. Additionally, it still has the original problem: it can't be evaded, so damage would suffer. 3 would be a bit of a stretch in terms of theme; she's always depicted charming one person, and was known for hunting lone travelers. Gameplay-wise it would require redoing her entire kit and playstyle unnecessarily, and her base damage already isn't exactly impressve. Finally making Charm AoE runs straight into one of the Classic Blunders: _never _ add utility to Ahri's kit, it always goes badly. 1, while kind of boring, could work with some creativity so the skillshot isn't negated by Charm. I'd propose three projectiles, one down the middle and two arcing to each side (A cross between Talon and DIana's skillshots). Zed Ult-style convergence might work too if the travel time coding is a mess, though they could just have them arrive at different times and mark the spot. They'd each have low power individually, with reduced minion damage if they go through targets. They'd either damage the first target hit, with a large increase for multiple hits, or do more damage in a small area at the convergence point. The first would probably work better, since the unreliability wouldn't be mitigated by Charm (unless the enemy dives past their minion wall, in which case it's their own fault).
: > [{quoted}](name=ExcessiveProtest,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=h7xncNa0,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2018-08-03T19:30:59.316+0000) > > Just checked the wiki: fourth lowest base health (Kled is only lower until his passive is factored in), and seventh lowest scaling health (again, Sion and Gnar are only lower due to passives). Tied for lowest MR scaling and second lowest base MR, only beating Sejuani. She's also tied for lowest True Damage resistance. True damage resistance? That's an actual stat, or you're just pulling my leg? {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
> [{quoted}](name=Celestial Fervor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=h7xncNa0,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2018-08-03T19:34:30.217+0000) > > True damage resistance? That's an actual stat, or you're just pulling my leg? {{sticker:sg-lulu}} I'm messing with you, technically every Champ in the game has zero True Damage resistance.
: Looks like Ignite and Electrocute were the only reasons she died. If it weren't for their current state, she would've just wasted all her spells like an ape. {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}} Besides, isn't Sona one of the squishiest champs?
> [{quoted}](name=Celestial Fervor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=h7xncNa0,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2018-08-03T19:13:50.515+0000) > > Looks like Ignite and Electrocute were the only reasons she died. If it weren't for their current state, she would've just wasted all her spells like an ape. > > {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}} > > > Besides, isn't Sona one of the squishiest champs? Just checked the wiki: fourth lowest base health (Kled is only lower until his passive is factored in), and seventh lowest scaling health (again, Sion and Gnar are only lower due to passives). Tied for lowest MR scaling and second lowest base MR, only beating Sejuani. She's also tied for lowest True Damage resistance.
: > [{quoted}](name=ExcessiveProtest,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=h7xncNa0,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-08-03T17:50:49.861+0000) > > Second, the overwhelming majority of Ahri mains want Foxfire gone. Removed. Completely replaced. Every time they push for it, though, you people complain that she gets too much attention. So pick one already; do you want Foxfire gone, or do you want Rito to ignore her? Because if you want the targeted damage gone, Ahri mains aren't the ones stopping it. I can safely say in the 3-4 years I've been watching these Boards I've never seen a post saying they want Ahri's Foxfire removed. I've seen them post that they want it to prioritize Champions, I've seen them say they want it to fire faster, but never outright removed.
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=h7xncNa0,comment-id=000f0001,timestamp=2018-08-03T17:56:22.280+0000) > > I can safely say in the 3-4 years I've been watching these Boards I've never seen a post saying they want Ahri's Foxfire removed. I've seen them post that they want it to prioritize Champions, I've seen them say they want it to fire faster, but never outright removed. It's usually on the other sites first, then they lower their expectations by the time they post here. For example when Rickless was working on the rework he was repeatedly asked on twitter to completely replace it, but said he couldn't because it would mean new effects, and the only spare team was working on Leblanc's rework. After finding out it was staying, people asked for at least Quality of Life changes, since it couldn't be changed drastically. When asked after about replacing it in the future, the response was it probably wouldn't be considered for at least a few years, since they just worked on her. Might be I actively look for them, but I've seen a good number of proposals here too, albeit they're usually either "make it a skillshot" or "make it enhance autoattacks." The latter usually leads to people pointing out it would have the same issue, albeit over a prolonged duration, but feel incredibly awkward when trying to combo. Won't ask you to look at the dedicated Ahri forums, they're a mess right now, but the general idea is that Riot historically keeps W weak because the counterplay is lacking, so if it was made unreliable, it would get more damage and they could kill things better because they always land skillshots. Everyone else, of course, thinks if it's unreliable, they'll win every game ever because they always dodge everything.
Kythers (NA)
: Is this what you wanted, ahri mains?
Two problems: First, they buffed Charm in both patches. Not Foxfire, not Ult, Charm. The thing that missed. Half the forums are already up in arms about Runes and Ignite doing too much free damage, and it's already being dealt with, so stop pretending it's Ahri's fault the game's a mess; the buffs you're complaining about aren't even relevant in the clip. Second, the overwhelming majority of Ahri mains want Foxfire gone. Removed. Completely replaced. Every time they push for it, though, you people complain that she gets too much attention. So pick one already; do you want Foxfire gone, or do you want Rito to ignore her? Because if you want the targeted damage gone, Ahri mains aren't the ones stopping it.
: Dammit Ahri
You have it backwards: Ahri gets skins after nerfs, not buffs. 2012: lot of adjustments, overall nerfs, Foxfire. 2013: nerfed after worlds, gets Popstar. 2014: gets buffed once, no nerfs, nothing all year. 2015: nerfed repeatedly after the 5.2 screwup, two skins: Challenger and Academy. 2016: more nerfing, Arcade. 2017: nerfed out of viability everywhere for a while, gets Star Guardian, a Legendary. Unless she suddenly gets incredibly big on the pro scene in the next week or so, she's going to be ignored in favor of Worlds "balancing" for other Champs, meaning no nerfing Charm. No nerfs, no skin. Either way, everyone's mad. ~~If you're reading this Riot, break the cycle; buff her and give her an Ultimate after Worlds. Just to see what happens. You know you want to.~~
: Who wants to bet that when Ahri gets nerfed they won't revert the charm change
I'll put $600 on nerfing literally everything except Charm over the course of three years. They will then nerf Charm to its previous functionality and revert half the other nerfs, and when she inexplicably ends up underpowered after this, they'll add more dashes to her Ult at higher ranks, restarting the cycle.
: Maybe .4 seconds was a bit much. Maybe lvl 1 E should start at 1.25 seconds. But either way, I don't understand exactly why this small buff was enough to swing her winrate by 3%. There are many buffs each patch that are stronger and more drastic than this ahri buff is, but they never see a winrate swing this big. I know that a .4 second buff is really high but I really just don't see how it can take her from lower half of the pack to 2nd best mid in the game (according to champion.gg) I mean when Power of Evil picked her in the LCS recently he literally was just a charm bot for the entire game. The only thing he did was charm aatrox while he was in his ult to keep him from running too far before the ult wore off.
This always happens when Ahri gets utility. It doesn't make sense, but it never fails. As much as people complain if her damage ever goes up, any time she gets a utility buff, her winrate jumps disproportionately. It's the same as 5.2: she was mediocre before it, then when they removed DFG, they compensated by removing her Charm amp too, and adding Q's homeguard effect. Winrate should have gone down, instead we get 57%, at the time the tenth highest in League history, including Beta, from that one effect. Then came the Gangplank and Fiora reworks, and the advent of Class Updates, and 57% stopped being impressive. Now it's the same deal: she was underpowered after they removed the speed and added Charm amp back, so they made a couple minor Quality of Life changes to Charm; the increased duration was meant solely to help land Q's return, since players would rather put points into E to help Q than level her underpowered W. Suddenly she's in the upper tiers of Midlane. Could be the nerfs to bruisers, her most hated class, amplifying the issue, but since she actually appeared in pro play for once, expect nerfs to everything except Charm once Rito has a spare team.
: The best way to counter Zed is to pick Malphite and play rock paper scissor with him
Waaaaait waitwaitwait.... Is that why we say ADCs are made of paper?
SCP 106 (NA)
: Veigar Is literally just a better Ahri
I'm calling bullshit: they hated Jesus because he died once and AFK'd at spawn for three days.
: Who are your favorite champs what do you think they would do if they found a world rune?
{{champion:103}} Honestly I think she'd probably book it out of the area immediately. She's already afraid of what she can do with her innate abilities accidentally, she has enough control now to not kill people, and may not need to steal essence at all since they never said she has to to survive in the new lore. Her only goal right now is to find any info on her family, and short of reshaping the continent to move towns to her, a World Rune won't really help. Additionally she's actively trying to avoid notice, especially in large events. {{champion:498}} hates her and {{champion:39}} is annoyed because she never gets involved, and I got the feeling from A Fair Trade that she's been doing this for so long that people have started forgetting the Fox Demon stories. If Ahri came across a World Rune, unless there's stories of them bringing back the dead she'd likely decide she has no use for it, consider taking it somewhere safe, decide that would just draw attention, then bail before someone came looking for it, leaving it on the ground for some other mage to deal with.
: The Memote contest was A BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!
To be fair, four out of five being angry, with the fifth being horrified is probably an accurate depiction of the League community at any given time. In all seriousness, I agree with most of your points; saw a lot of high-quality ones being posted all over with much more variety, but all they show is these five. Not sure on the advertising part though, I know I was specifically looking for a few I saw when they were posted here, and never saw them in the voting site.
: > [{quoted}](name=S0kaX,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=FhgduIRc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-27T14:30:35.745+0000) > > Unless you have PBE, you're going to have to pray for the free week champions to include her. (The rotation changes on each Tuesday) What's PBE if you don't mind me asking! ^_^
> [{quoted}](name=xox BaByDoLL xox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=FhgduIRc,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-07-27T16:16:50.391+0000) > > What's PBE if you don't mind me asking! ^_^ Public Beta signups are here: https://pbesignup.na.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/pbe Only requirement is Honor Level 3 last I heard, so you probably can't get in just yet, but all champs are freely available, new content is heavily discounted, and you get free RP each day when it works properly. Downside is the server gets new changes every weekday, it's prone to bugs, skill matchmaking's a mess, and people are, as expected from a test server, more interested in messing around than playing in case you're trying to see how something plays in real games.
Eedat (NA)
: > She was indeed; had 53% in Bronze through Gold for two years Nope, sorry but straight up wrong. ~53% WR with ~13% pickrate for three years straight ***in Plat+*** https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ahri/platinum ***Even in Diamond+*** https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ahri/diamond
You ever read what Mark Twain said about statistics? It goes double for League. Go to any other stat site and that winrate drops substantially. https://www.leaguespy.net/league-of-legends/champions I'll pull up old data for the other sites when I'm more awake, they're fighters, but no matter which site you go to, even with the season's World Champ actively looking for a chance to pick her just once, she still had a 0% existence rate in serious play, outside Rito-class screwups.
Eedat (NA)
: Yeah Ahri was such a trash champ that she held a ~53% winrate with ~13% pickrate for 3 years straight kek
She was indeed; had 53% in Bronze through Gold for two years, while simultaneously the repeated World Champion Midlaner, who has been actively trying to get a Worlds skin on her for years, said picking her was the same as throwing the game in serious matches. She could stomp bad players easily, but still had a whopping 0% pick/ban rate where it mattered. The only time that rate passed 0% was, as the old Gangplank joke goes, when literally every Champ in her lane got nerfed. She then dropped to 49% in bronze, lower as you climbed, despite having no strategic niche like most sub-50 winrate Champs have.
: "Wasn't even good in the first place." Aside from a period of weakness in.. I think s4(?).. Ahri has been one of the most flexible and strong mid-picks since her original release. Tis is especially true post Q movement speed, which I think came about in s5?
Not quite: she was strong before season 4, dropped off the face of the earth until the 4.12 buff, but still never reached her old levels, then Rito started off the infamous season 5 by deleting DFG. They decided she is now a kite mage, screw you Ahri players, and removed some of her damage and Charm's damage amp as compensation for losing a core damage item, added movespeed and called it done. They later admitted this was all supposed to be a nerf, but they added a _lot _ of movespeed, and you know how they are with admitting mistakes, even when their nerf hits 57% winrate everywhere below Diamond. Thus, she began stomping every elo where winning just meant not feeding despite repeated nerfs, but simultaneously completely left pro play until season 7, when every single meta midlaner was simultaneously nerfed (RIP Syndra and Viktor). She was then nerfed in turn, but harder this time, and underperformed in every elo until the partial dework this year, which ended up lowering her overall performance further until the followup Charm buffs. As for OP: leave her passive as-is; it's pathetically nonexistent, but she still has her old one on Q, and the last thing we need is everyone to start screaming for nerfs now that she's finally in a state vaguely approaching something that resembles Pro-viable with Worlds coming up. And you know they will the moment they see a real passive on the PBE. I'd absolutely love more damage and Charm amping everything like she used to have instead of Charm utility (though interrupting dashes again would be wonderful), but the only guy willing to work with us just left the company, and I'd rather not risk it. Also the speed procs off any two ability hits on a champ, even from the same ability.
: With all the lore stories on Miss Fortune, you’d think she’d have an updated VO by now
Honestly I'd settle for one piece of writing that's not just a long-winded way of saying she hates Gangplank. I mean seriously, Gangplank killed his own parents too, but do you hear _him _ whining about it?
Ahris (NA)
: Viktor went 7-0-3 in competitive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7yPUQ9-Uiw
: so does {{champion:105}} (if you count his W as 2) But a lot of champions who arent even assasins have 3 dashes...{{champion:103}} {{champion:240}} (sorta) {{champion:157}} {{champion:39}} with resets etc
: Can we keep the new ghost poro/ porosnax interaction?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1moXJATS2Zs
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Why are people complaining about new Akali's mobillity?
Because she now has exactly three unconditional dashes, and you're on the League boards.
Myrza (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ExcessiveProtest,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hbxvuEUG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-18T19:35:52.743+0000) > > Probably not for a while, considering item changes would make it near-unplayable right now. The original release had Morellonomicon providing infinite mana, since most enemies counted as Champions. While going Precision Secondary would have the same effect, having half your runes forced to achieve basic functionality wouldn't be the epitome of good design. ADCs spiked earlier then, but with the item changes they'd have to wait a few waves to become relevant; a standard build gets its damage after two items, and becomes self-sustaining by three, which is exactly at the finale. Supports (and Lux) were fully abusing Ardent at the time, which was nerfed along with the rest of Support items. Not sure about the on-hit builds that people abused, but I think the changes to Rageblade would delay their effectiveness similarly to ADCs in the mode. > > Overall the only ones who **aren't** either weaker or an outright liability are Poppy and Fortune. It wasn't exactly easy to begin with, so they'd have to put in effort to ensure it was playable, which usually means not for a few years at best. I haven't played the mode and don't know much of it, but were the support items nerfed because of Invasion and solely for that reason? because that seems kind of silly if you ask me. I've seen many people make threads about "use X champion because it's great in this mode" and since the AI damage is so high, wouldn't it be good for shield champions to get items such as Censer? I'm not trying to start an argument, I just don't see why it would be bad to use certain champions with certain items in that mode because of the way the game works. (ex. How shield champs such as Janna or Lux are good because of shields, Poppy and Syndra are good because of the displacemnents, champs such as Ahri are useless, etc.) If they brought enemy damage down on earlier levels and had it scale properly through rounds, I feel like almost any champion could be good.
> [{quoted}](name=DarkfireAhri ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hbxvuEUG,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-07-18T22:05:47.006+0000) > > I haven't played the mode and don't know much of it, but were the support items nerfed because of Invasion and solely for that reason? because that seems kind of silly if you ask me. I've seen many people make threads about "use X champion because it's great in this mode" and since the AI damage is so high, wouldn't it be good for shield champions to get items such as Censer? > > I'm not trying to start an argument, I just don't see why it would be bad to use certain champions with certain items in that mode because of the way the game works. > (ex. How shield champs such as Janna or Lux are good because of shields, Poppy and Syndra are good because of the displacemnents, champs such as Ahri are useless, etc.) > > If they brought enemy damage down on earlier levels and had it scale properly through rounds, I feel like almost any champion could be good. No no, not at all. Support items were nerfed because Ardent was so overused in Worlds it was a candidate for a Victorious skin, and the overabundance of shields were driving entire classes out of the game. Invasion just happened to be released when they were still stronger. The problem is that the whole thing was balanced around the main item pool as it existed at the time, and most of them have been drastically changed since in one patch or another, which would mean they'd probably have to give bonus stats to Champs or make Invasion-only items. Otherwise you'd probably end up with a giant Cho'Gath mauling your whole team in the second wave, as the mages have to wait a full minute every time they cast Q due to the removal of mana regen, ADCs with 0% crit struggle to pretend they're relevant, and Soraka can't get enough health to activate Warmog's.
Myrza (NA)
: Will Star Guardian Invasion come back as one of the Rotating Game Modes?
Probably not for a while, considering item changes would make it near-unplayable right now. The original release had Morellonomicon providing infinite mana, since most enemies counted as Champions. While going Precision Secondary would have the same effect, having half your runes forced to achieve basic functionality wouldn't be the epitome of good design. ADCs spiked earlier then, but with the item changes they'd have to wait a few waves to become relevant; a standard build gets its damage after two items, and becomes self-sustaining by three, which is exactly at the finale. Supports (and Lux) were fully abusing Ardent at the time, which was nerfed along with the rest of Support items. Not sure about the on-hit builds that people abused, but I think the changes to Rageblade would delay their effectiveness similarly to ADCs in the mode. Overall the only ones who **aren't** either weaker or an outright liability are Poppy and Fortune. It wasn't exactly easy to begin with, so they'd have to put in effort to ensure it was playable, which usually means not for a few years at best.
Stone766 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yoosung,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Gfugw3iI,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-07-18T06:52:40.372+0000) > > Honestly at this point I think people are just picking on Ahri and Lux simply because they are female and popular champs. No one says anything about TF or Teemo..(actually I've seen a few comments but not nearly on the same scale). > > Ahri and Lux get skins (almost) every year? Well so did many other champions, like TF, Teemo and Annie all got skins almost yearly. I say almost, because all these champs (I haven't checked Lux but likely applies to her too, but I could be wrong) got a skin almost every year except like 2013 or 2014 depending on the champ. Now TF, Annie and Teemo are all older champions so it naturally makes sense they have a few more skins for their the previous 2 years, but by some of the community's logic they too should get people complaining alllll the time about them getting their yearly skin. > > That being said Riot has stated that making a skin for one champ doesn't interfere with making a skin for another champ. So I think all this whining is kinda dumb and people should just be happy for others. Of course that won't ever happen. > > {{sticker:sg-lulu}} I strongly disagree that they get hate just because they are female. That is not true. But I do agree that part of the hate comes from the fact that they are popular and have... everything. Ahri and Lux have a surplus of skins, Merch, Summoner Icons, emotes and wards. They get a share in every new cosmetic that comes out and as a result they really do not need more. Ahri and Lux are NOT entitled to 1 new skin every year, That's just unreasonable. my main (Evelynn) had to wait 4 years to finally get the skin she deserved (and even then, she somehow didnt get an icon). As for Annie, Garen, Teemo, exc. I agree that It's stupid that people don't complain about them more. They REALLY do not need anymore skins. They are good for the next 4 years imo. I feel like Ahri and Lux's skins just gain more attraction from the playerbase, and as a result more people get annoyed about them. There are other female characters that don't have as much skins as ahri/lux like {{champion:131}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:267}} even {{champion:203}} to the point where it is completely unacceptable that Ahri/Lux would get priority over them. Popularity should not decide who gets a skin, and if you believe it should , {{champion:28}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:267}} and {{champion:145}} all have a higher pick rate then both Ahri AND Lux making them more popular. So they should be getting more love and priority, right? Although I must admit I would have much rather seen a pool party Ahri then Pool party Zoe. I hate zoe to death, her character itself bothers me
> [{quoted}](name=Stone766,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Gfugw3iI,comment-id=000900000001,timestamp=2018-07-18T18:30:37.212+0000) > > I strongly disagree that they get hate just because they are female. That is not true. But I do agree that part of the hate comes from the fact that they are popular and have... everything. Ahri and Lux have a surplus of skins, Merch, Summoner Icons, emotes and wards. They get a share in every new cosmetic that comes out and as a result they really do not need more. Ahri and Lux are NOT entitled to 1 new skin every year, That's just unreasonable. my main (Evelynn) had to wait 4 years to finally get the skin she deserved (and even then, she somehow didnt get an icon). > > As for Annie, Garen, Teemo, exc. I agree that It's stupid that people don't complain about them more. They REALLY do not need anymore skins. They are good for the next 4 years imo. I feel like Ahri and Lux's skins just gain more attraction from the playerbase, and as a result more people get annoyed about them. > > There are other female characters that don't have as much skins as ahri/lux like {{champion:131}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:267}} even {{champion:203}} to the point where it is completely unacceptable that Ahri/Lux would get priority over them. Popularity should not decide who gets a skin, and if you believe it should , {{champion:28}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:267}} and {{champion:145}} all have a higher pick rate then both Ahri AND Lux making them more popular. So they should be getting more love and priority, right? > > Although I must admit I would have much rather seen a pool party Ahri then Pool party Zoe. I hate zoe to death, her character itself bothers me Just to throw more fuel on the fire, there's also Darius (released six months after Ahri, has one less skin, but two Legendaries (three depending on what you count Dreadnova as)) and Riven (exactly tied with Ahri, released a bit sooner) who never get complaints. Fortune is an honorable mention, with eleven and a legendary, though people sometimes remember to complain about her. I'd be fine with less than annual skins for Ahri, my issue here is that they deliberately built up hype for it, then outright refused to make it, insulting players in the process, and six years later they'd rather start work on one for a new champ (the champ being Zoe just makes it worse) immediately after releasing them.
: People only want it for fanservice lol
> [{quoted}](name=Quality Content,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Gfugw3iI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-07-17T23:09:53.881+0000) > > People only want it for fanservice lol How dare you? I'll have you know that I want it made purely out of spite. Even if they did make it, I'd stay with Arcade. ...Until my friend decided to get revenge for the time I made them play as Kitty Katarina, but I'm gambling that I'll never have to face the consequences of that event.
: Still no Pool Party Ahri
Three years? People have been asking since they put her in [Ziggs](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ziggs_PoolPartySkin.jpg)' splash (hue) art back in 2012, the original pool party. Then she showed up in [Renekton](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Renekton/Skins?file=Renekton_PoolPartySkin.jpg)'s next year, as well as the [login screen ](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/agvfjk8eH_0/maxresdefault.jpg)for the event. Then when they made Zac's they announced they're not doing it, stop asking, then backpedaled with a vague nobody's off the table retraction when people got mad. Every year people post that it'll happen this year for sure, then it doesn't happen. It's not happening. Ever. if it were, they would already have done it. But out of spite, or to hide the shortcuts they took making her base model (using SG as a base isn't an option, because reasons), or some strange sense of professionalism where sketching a champion bathing is more acceptable, they're not doing it. Any other skin line, **every **other skin line, but not the one they advertised.
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ExcessiveProtest

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