: name 5 things you miss and want to see in leauge again
I miss Quinn & Valor. The Rework was a total slap in the face to all Quinn AND Valor fans who requested more duoism. **Biggest insult to fans ever.** {{champion:133}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:133}}
Rioter Comments
Eyrgos (NA)
: Can Quinn please have Valor back?
Riot? RiotRepertoir? ZenonTheStoic?
: While I do appreciate the work that went into her new ultimate's visuals and SFX, I too would like to have Valor back at least in form if not gameplay. Flying as him felt so fun and majestic! It was also the only opportunity we had in League to play as a real bird, so it was unique. http://i.imgur.com/rM7QgNa.jpg
> [{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xrviozie,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-30T03:33:25.502+0000) > > While I do appreciate the work that was put into her new ultimate's visuals and SFX, if nothing at all, I too would like to have Valor back at least in form if not gameplay. Flying as him felt so fun and majestic! It was also the only opportunity we had in League to play a real bird. > > http://i.imgur.com/rM7QgNa.jpg Srsly... god how I miss it. I was so angry/sad when they decided to take my most beloved aspect of Quinn AND Valor away, rather than enhance the interplay of the two (which was the most hotly requested bit for the rework, by a landslide :-/ ).
Jbels (NA)
: You know what I love about Quinn's rework? How they made it so Quinn seemingly hovers at high speeds across the map with seemingly nothing holding/carrying her there
> [{quoted}](name=Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xrviozie,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-30T02:44:51.651+0000) > > You know what I love about Quinn's rework? How they made it so Quinn seemingly hovers at high speeds across the map with seemingly nothing holding/carrying her there The body of the post...
Rioter Comments
: It's difficult to gain visibility or have an objective discussion about Quinn's changes because her rework is viewed by a large portion of the community as nothing more than an unequivocal success. People will tell you that Valor needed to go because he was a melee form with no defensive bonuses on a squishy ADC -- but really, there were plenty of ways to leverage this and make him a successful character within Quinn's kit; if he needed defensive bonuses or some way to mitigate damage besides the blind then they could have given that to him. To help people understand this situation, I compare it to a hypothetical scenario where Shyvana's ultimate is reworked into something she can only fly with. Would that change really satisfy Shyvana players and would it do justice to the theme and character role she is intended to fill? Quinn's intended strengths were always meant to be high maneuverability/swiftness both in combat and out. This is what gave her such good catch, chase, and escape potential -- you couldn't really run from Quinn and Valor but they could easily escape you. Another intended strength was high assassination potential. But now that Valor is gone, these strengths have been toned down drastically in favor of more powerful roaming. She was already very good at roaming, but now it's been amped up to the tenth degree, further stretching her already versatile gameplay identity. Thematically, Quinn was supposed to be the 2-in-1 Champion. A dual character; a team that could operate separately on the battlefield, but in unison, with their own individual abilities, strengths, and weaknesses. Valor even had his own in-game portrait apart from Quinn's because you'd better believe he'd want that kill credit glory. He's an eagle -- he shouldn't be latching onto his falconer to fly her around, he should be doing what eagles do best: diving in on his prey at high speeds for a quick kill. Aside from all that, I will say, OP, that asking if Valor is going to be made into his own Champion does not really help the discussion or provide any meaningful thoughts about Quinn and Valor. Obviously, it's painful that our Champion has been changed this way, but breaking them up into two would be ludicrous. They're symbiotic characters, one cannot (or rather, should not) exist in game without the other. Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. As a side note, I too would love to see her get a texture update.
Perfect points. I'd much rather she Valor return to Quinn than separate them. You're right, making Valor his own champion wouldn't solve the issue I have, nor the sadness. Sigh... it's true, Quinn's rework is a 'success.' But really, the changes were mostly ones that should've happened pre-Rework. They were ones we shouted for forever to fix her clunkiness & make her more enjoyable. Valor could've stayed even. I'm just so salty still about Valor getting axed for improved roaming... like you said, they already roamed well. Well enough too IMHO, already very well. It just fcking sucks.
Rioter Comments
: The Bird and the Branch
All this does is make me cry for Quinn & Valor's poor mistreatment by Riot... none of the things they promised ever came together (texture update), nor virtually any of the things players actually wanted (we wanted Valor to feel more a part of the champion, not less). I spent years fighting for Quinn & Valor... finally saw some light & then the texture update was never fulfilled as told & the Rework completely ruined Valor for a ton of us Quinn diehards.
Meddler (NA)
: We talked through a long list of terms, those included. So far Grounded's the one we're happiest with, in terms of conveying what specifically it applies against (movement, but not basic right click movement). Terms like Stagger, Paralyze, Disable and Stall all imply CC, but are pretty general (could all be alternate names for 'Stun'). Hamstring's pretty good, ties really clearly to movement, it's very physical though and carries more thematic expecations and in this case a widely applicable term's useful. Grounded stops all movement effects in part so it's not too Feast or Famine. Applying it solely to physical feeling effects both introduces some loss of clarity (are Talon or Ezreal affected or not?) and makes it much less applicable in many games. Ability to lock out Flash in particular by contrast gives a baseline level of contribution (and slightly encourages use of other Summoner Spells on champions they're almost good choices on if facing a Cass or other champion with a similar effect). As far as stopping dashes in progress goes so far we're targeting Grounded as a more pre-emptive effect, rather than an interrupt. Possible that might change, we do have a lot of abilities already that interrupt dashes though (every knockup and knockback for starters).
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uzpqGYvh,comment-id=001600000001,timestamp=2016-03-29T21:34:51.252+0000) > > We talked through a long list of terms, those included. So far Grounded's the one we're happiest with, in terms of conveying what specifically it applies against (movement, but not basic right click movement). Terms like Stagger, Paralyze, Disable and Stall all imply CC, but are pretty general (could all be alternate names for 'Stun'). Hamstring's pretty good, ties really clearly to movement, it's very physical though and carries more thematic expecations and in this case a widely applicable term's useful. > > Grounded stops all movement effects in part so it's not too Feast or Famine. Applying it solely to physical feeling effects both introduces some loss of clarity (are Talon or Ezreal affected or not?) and makes it much less applicable in many games. Ability to lock out Flash in particular by contrast gives a baseline level of contribution (and slightly encourages use of other Summoner Spells on champions they're almost good choices on if facing a Cass or other champion with a similar effect). > > As far as stopping dashes in progress goes so far we're targeting Grounded as a more pre-emptive effect, rather than an interrupt. Possible that might change, we do have a lot of abilities already that interrupt dashes though (every knockup and knockback for starters). Thank you so much for the reply! You make great points all around. Gonna plug this because my heart still mourns, please let us have Valor back... maybe as his own Champion.
: Hamstring could be nice for another spell preventing self-speedups.
> [{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uzpqGYvh,comment-id=0016000000010000,timestamp=2016-03-29T21:49:22.203+0000) > > Hamstring could be nice for another spell preventing self-speedups. Love this idea.
Meddler (NA)
: We'll probably use Grounded on other abilities at some point assuming it continues to test well on Cass. Grounded's a debuff that presents the use of dashes/jumps/blinks for anyone unfamiliar with the term and we've been trying it out on the Cass gameplay update currently underway. I wouldn't want to add it to Viktor's Gravity Field without making additional changes though. Gravity Field's currently a slow, that turns into a stun, that once upgraded also vacuums. Ability to Flash, dash etc out of it's pretty important counterplay given the impact of the payoff there. The thematic fit's really cool, wouldn't consider if appropriate to do it for that alone though.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uzpqGYvh,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2016-03-29T20:42:52.322+0000) > > We'll probably use Grounded on other abilities at some point assuming it continues to test well on Cass. Grounded's a debuff that presents the use of dashes/jumps/blinks for anyone unfamiliar with the term and we've been trying it out on the Cass gameplay update currently underway. > > I wouldn't want to add it to Viktor's Gravity Field without making additional changes though. Gravity Field's currently a slow, that turns into a stun, that once upgraded also vacuums. Ability to Flash, dash etc out of it's pretty important counterplay given the impact of the payoff there. The thematic fit's really cool, wouldn't consider if appropriate to do it for that alone though. Hi Meddler! Thank you for joining us. I appreciate it & I want to ask your consideration on changing the term, "Grounded." I definitely think it should be changed as I feel we can do much better. My ideas: Stagger Paralyze Hamstring Disable Stall Stagger is my personal favorite though I believe Disable or Stall to best convey this particular impairment (impair is a decent one too). Which do you like best from my list? Please pick one! I will add... I also feel the mechanic needs tweaking. I don't think it should prevent 'magic-based' movement (e.g. blinks/flashes/teleports), only dashes... it's just non-sensical that way ("let me silence your magic, but only the transportative kind"). Gameplay-wise, fantasy-realism aside, I think it'd be better too. I also feel it should stop dashes in their tracks. Or if unwilling, please ensure the duration of the Staggering Effect doesn't begin until the dash has expired (if cast during). I like how it applies a minor slow, though. I think that's perfect. What do you think, Meddler?!
: It's hard to say either is better, as "Cripple" could just as easily sound like a slowing effect or something.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbwT2KaN,comment-id=003d00040000,timestamp=2016-03-27T04:55:40.242+0000) > > It's hard to say either is better, as "Cripple" could just as easily sound like a slowing effect or something. In any case, I definitely think the term Grounded should be changed as I feel we can do much better. My ideas: Stagger Paralyze Hamstring Disable Stall Stagger is my personal favorite though I believe Disable or Stall to best convey this particular impairment (impair is a decent one too). Which do you like best from my list? Please pick one! I will add... I also feel the mechanic needs tweaking. I don't think it should prevent 'magic-based' movement (e.g. blinks/flashes/teleports), only dashes... it's just non-sensical that way ("let me silence your magic, but only the transportative kind"). Gameplay-wise, fantasy-realism aside, I think it'd be better too. I also feel it should stop dashes in their tracks. Or if unwilling, please ensure the duration of the Staggering Effect doesn't begin until the dash has expired (if cast during). I like how it applies a minor slow, though. I think that's perfect. What do you think, Repertoir ?!
: > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbwT2KaN,comment-id=003d00040000,timestamp=2016-03-27T04:55:40.242+0000) > > It's hard to say either is better, as "Cripple" could just as easily sound like a slowing effect or something. Let's just keep it simple and say they've been "gravitied". Or even better (if applied to a Lee Sin) he's been "Dee Sinn-ed". :D In all honesty though, "Gravity" may be a good thing to call the debuff.
> [{quoted}](name=GhastlyGhoulMan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbwT2KaN,comment-id=003d000400000001,timestamp=2016-03-27T06:14:31.579+0000) > > Let's just keep it simple and say they've been "gravitied". Or even better (if applied to a Lee Sin) he's been "Dee Sinn-ed". :D > > In all honesty though, "Gravity" may be a good thing to call the debuff. Heavied? What do you think of my other term-suggestions (post before yours)???
: It's hard to say either is better, as "Cripple" could just as easily sound like a slowing effect or something.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbwT2KaN,comment-id=003d00040000,timestamp=2016-03-27T04:55:40.242+0000) > > It's hard to say either is better, as "Cripple" could just as easily sound like a slowing effect or something. In any case, I definitely think the term Grounded should be changed as I feel we can do much better. My ideas: Stagger Paralyze Hamstring Disable Stall Stagger is my personal favorite though I believe Disable or Stall to best convey this particular impairment (impair is a decent one too). Which do you like best from my list? Please pick one! I will add... I also feel the mechanic needs tweaking. I don't think it should prevent 'magic-based' movement (e.g. blinks/flashes/teleports), only dashes... it's just non-sensical that way ("let me silence your magic, but only the transportative kind"). Gameplay-wise, fantasy-realism aside, I think it'd be better too. I also feel it should stop dashes in their tracks. Or if unwilling, please ensure the duration of the Staggering Effect doesn't begin until the dash has expired (if cast during). I like how it applies a minor slow, though. I think that's perfect. What do you think, Repertoir ?! ((Sorry for accidental double-post, can't find delete option on iOS view :-/ )
Sevixys (EUNE)
: .. Quinn? Quinn was a success. Cassiopeia and morde though.. Both ended worse than before..
> [{quoted}](name=Sevixys,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2TeuJzju,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2016-01-24T07:01:38.992+0000) > > .. Quinn? Quinn was a success. Cassiopeia and morde though.. Both ended worse than before.. They took Valor out of the equation when the most largely requested thing was to enhance the Valor interplay. Sure, it was successful... but it gutted Quinn's primary draw for her biggest fans.
: A larger issue than people not wanting Vel'Koz reworked...
Yeah... I really don't want another Quinn or Mordekaiser or Cassiopeia to happen :/
: Here's a post where you can ask questions about the stuff I've worked on, and I'll try to answer.
Any chance we'll see a Champion released like Quinn & Valor were originally intended to be (partnership champion)???
: Here's a post where you can ask questions about the stuff I've worked on, and I'll try to answer.
Can Valor be made his own Champion since it no longer makes sense for Quinn AND Valor to have to be tied together?
: Here's a post where you can ask questions about the stuff I've worked on, and I'll try to answer.
Can we please have a champ like former Quinn? I was Quinn's biggest fan... just look at my history with her & my posts surrounding her. I hate new Quinn so much :/
Rioter Comments
: RIP Valor
I'm terribly sad. Quinn has been my favorite champion since her pre-release... my favorite to play ever. She's so bland now. Removal of Blind is depressing, that was my favorite part of her. Proper timing & mind-gaming with the Blind was core to her gameplay & the fantasy of playing her... Much more Harrier marking waters down the mechanic, it's so frequent now it feels pointless. Whereas she had excellent roaming with interesting effect before... now she only has the roaming... and it looks really stupid having Quinn hang onto Valor & makes no sense she can't auto while hanging on with the other arm. Skystrike weaker? Saddening... She also lost the play-making capability of surprise attacking with Valor form. That was the absolute best. The plays! The tower dives & the escapes. If you're not going to up her AA range either, she should have even more base MS so she's viable as an ADC bot lane. Her fantasy should be the best kiter in the game. Her mindgamey/playmaking gameplay being gutted is just the worst... Not only that... you guys again screwed with her lane assignment... And the Blind made her jungle viable so she didn't each too much damage from the Monsters. Jungle Quinn was one of my absolute favorite ways to play her & it's something I've requested you guys keep intact and/or enhance constantly. Another thing. Is nothing was done to enhance Valor's interplay... that was the single biggest request among fans upon hearing she'd be received any sort of update. More frequent Harriering doesn't count. The loss of Valor's v. of her abilities is a huge hit on Valor interplay too. Man, this sucks... I'm so depressed about this :/ Please fix this. Quinn is ruined in this state, nearly everything I loved about her spoiled or removed. She's utterly ruined. Please revert. Or let's go back to the drawing board.
: @RiotRepertoir, Quinn's Blind and 525 Range
I'm terribly sad. Quinn has been my favorite champion since her pre-release... my favorite to play ever. She's so bland now. Removal of Blind is depressing, that was my favorite part of her. Proper timing & mind-gaming with the Blind was core to her gameplay & the fantasy of playing her... Much more Harrier marking waters down the mechanic, it's so frequent now it feels pointless. Whereas she had excellent roaming with interesting effect before... now she only has the roaming... and it looks really stupid having Quinn hang onto Valor & makes no sense she can't auto while hanging on with the other arm. Skystrike weaker? Saddening... She also lost the play-making capability of surprise attacking with Valor form. That was the absolute best. The plays! The tower dives & the escapes. If you're not going to up her AA range either, she should have even more base MS so she's viable as an ADC bot lane. Her fantasy should be the best kiter in the game. Her mindgamey/playmaking gameplay being gutted is just the worst... Not only that... you guys again screwed with her lane assignment... And the Blind made her jungle viable so she didn't each too much damage from the Monsters. Jungle Quinn was one of my absolute favorite ways to play her & it's something I've requested you guys keep intact and/or enhance constantly. Another thing. Is nothing was done to enhance Valor's interplay... that was the single biggest request among fans upon hearing she'd be received any sort of update. More frequent Harriering doesn't count. The loss of Valor's v. of her abilities is a huge hit on Valor interplay too. Man, this sucks... I'm so depressed about this :/ Please fix this. Quinn is ruined in this state, nearly everything I loved about her spoiled or removed. She's utterly ruined. Please revert. Or let's go back to the drawing board.
: Riot, I just saw the Quinn rework..
I'm terribly sad. Quinn has been my favorite champion since her pre-release... my favorite to play ever. She's so bland now. Removal of Blind is depressing, that was my favorite part of her. Proper timing & mind-gaming with the Blind was core to her gameplay & the fantasy of playing her... Much more Harrier marking waters down the mechanic, it's so frequent now it feels pointless. Whereas she had excellent roaming with interesting effect before... now she only has the roaming... and it looks really stupid having Quinn hang onto Valor & makes no sense she can't auto while hanging on with the other arm. Skystrike weaker? Saddening... She also lost the play-making capability of surprise attacking with Valor form. That was the absolute best. The plays! The tower dives & the escapes. If you're not going to up her AA range either, she should have even more base MS so she's viable as an ADC bot lane. Her fantasy should be the best kiter in the game. Her mindgamey/playmaking gameplay being gutted is just the worst... Not only that... you guys again screwed with her lane assignment... And the Blind made her jungle viable so she didn't each too much damage from the Monsters. Jungle Quinn was one of my absolute favorite ways to play her & it's something I've requested you guys keep intact and/or enhance constantly. Another thing. Is nothing was done to enhance Valor's interplay... that was the single biggest request among fans upon hearing she'd be received any sort of update. More frequent Harriering doesn't count. The loss of Valor's v. of her abilities is a huge hit on Valor interplay too. Man, this sucks... I'm so depressed about this :/ Please fix this. Quinn is ruined in this state, nearly everything I loved about her spoiled or removed. She's utterly ruined. Please revert. Or let's go back to the drawing board.
Eyrgos (NA)
: Please Reconsider QUINN Changes
Not insinuating she has to be OP, I just think this rework was done all wrong. Of course, she should be balanced just like any champion.
Rioter Comments
: Quinn Changes
I'm terribly sad. Quinn has been my favorite champion since her pre-release... my favorite to play ever. She's so bland now. Removal of Blind is depressing, that was my favorite part of her. Proper timing & mind-gaming with the Blind was core to her gameplay & the fantasy of playing her... Much more Harrier marking waters down the mechanic, it's so frequent now it feels pointless. Whereas she had excellent roaming with interesting effect before... now she only has the roaming... and it looks really stupid having Quinn hang onto Valor & makes no sense she can't auto while hanging on with the other arm. Skystrike weaker? Saddening... She also lost the play-making capability of surprise attacking with Valor form. That was the absolute best. The plays! The tower dives & the escapes. If you're not going to up her AA range either, she should have even more base MS so she's viable as an ADC bot lane. Her fantasy should be the best kiter in the game. Her mindgamey/playmaking gameplay being gutted is just the worst... Not only that... you guys again screwed with her lane assignment... And the Blind made her jungle viable so she didn't each too much damage from the Monsters. Jungle Quinn was one of my absolute favorite ways to play her & it's something I've requested you guys keep intact and/or enhance constantly. Another thing. Is nothing was done to enhance Valor's interplay... that was the single biggest request among fans upon hearing she'd be received any sort of update. More frequent Harriering doesn't count. The loss of Valor's v. of her abilities is a huge hit on Valor interplay too. Man, this sucks... I'm so depressed about this :/ Please fix this. Quinn is ruined in this state, nearly everything I loved about her spoiled or removed. She's utterly ruined. Please revert. Or let's go back to the drawing board.
: Hey guys, First off, thanks for being passionate and posting feedback about this! At this time, Cosmic Reaver Kass is not going to get new VO processing. Right now, we don’t have the bandwidth to tackle this right now because the team is slammed with skins until the end of the year (usually the busiest season for Skins). However, this is definitely something that we will revisit in the future. Long live {{champion:38}}
> [{quoted}](name=Riot N0TAR,realm=NA,application-id=aAJWt2b9,discussion-id=5O7Rc8Z4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-16T04:23:58.467+0000) > > Hey guys, > > First off, thanks for being passionate and posting feedback about this! At this time, Cosmic Reaver Kass is not going to get new VO processing. > > Right now, we don’t have the bandwidth to tackle this right now because the team is slammed with skins until the end of the year (usually the busiest season for Skins). However, this is definitely something that we will revisit in the future. Long live {{champion:38}} You'll promise to revisit this but you guys never even bothered to respond about Special Weapon ZAC being looked at for a VO filter during his PBE days... that skin really deserves one.
: Hey guys, First off, thanks for being passionate and posting feedback about this! At this time, Cosmic Reaver Kass is not going to get new VO processing. Right now, we don’t have the bandwidth to tackle this right now because the team is slammed with skins until the end of the year (usually the busiest season for Skins). However, this is definitely something that we will revisit in the future. Long live {{champion:38}}
> [{quoted}](name=Riot N0TAR,realm=NA,application-id=aAJWt2b9,discussion-id=5O7Rc8Z4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-16T04:23:58.467+0000) > > Hey guys, > > First off, thanks for being passionate and posting feedback about this! At this time, Cosmic Reaver Kass is not going to get new VO processing. > > Right now, we don’t have the bandwidth to tackle this right now because the team is slammed with skins until the end of the year (usually the busiest season for Skins). However, this is definitely something that we will revisit in the future. Long live {{champion:38}} You'll promise to revisit this but you guys never even bothered to respond about Special Weapon ZAC being looked at for a VO filter during his PBE days... that skin really deserves one.
: I have that reddit thread of Quinn bugs saved as a favorite right now in Chrome. I'm trying to knock them out as I get to them.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iHUVEuLY,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2015-09-21T20:49:54.135+0000) > > I have that reddit thread of Quinn bugs saved as a favorite right now in Chrome. I'm trying to knock them out as I get to them. Most notably, how Vault frequently wigs out (has to do with pivot-animations) & how her AA is clunky AF?
: Old HUD back
The new hud is worse in virtually ever single way.
: Things like solo W case, bonus XP in duo lane, E damage (we suspect this is better solo when he doesn't have allies to help him land W or Q). There are plenty of options if that's how we end up needing to react.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAQNiqjw,comment-id=002200020000000200000000000000050002,timestamp=2015-08-15T17:50:59.148+0000) > > Things like solo W case, bonus XP in duo lane, E damage (we suspect this is better solo when he doesn't have allies to help him land W or Q). > > There are plenty of options if that's how we end up needing to react. **IF?** Are you still not understanding that solo Morde is factually gimped in comparison to duo Morde due to the loss of an ability & power budget being granted to duo alone? Make a solo W, scrap the bonus XP in duo lane, & spread that power budgeting elsewhere. Please for the love of god, save our Morde from this duo-enforcement.
: If solo morde ends up nerfed, we will address it. I'm just spelling out some of the goals/stance on solo vs duo morde.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAQNiqjw,comment-id=0022000200000002000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-15T00:11:15.012+0000) > > If solo morde ends up nerfed, we will address it. I'm just spelling out some of the goals/stance on solo vs duo morde. It's nerfed on the sheer fact that it's gimped vs. duo because it's short an ability. How is this not making sense to you? Or how is it not coming through to you? Do you understand what I'm saying here? Some of his optimal power budget is gated to group-context... solo Morde is factually sub-optimal. **Please, for the love of pete, make it so he's equally viable in both solo & duo contexts.**
: I never wanted a champion rework to fail, but....
MAKE THIS REWORK INTO A CHAMP WHO'S A FOIL TO MORDE--HIS SHADOW OR NEMESIS OR SOMEONE WHO'S LIKE THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE COIN. But don't FCKING make Morde into this piece of shit. It's not okay to take a classic Champ with years of history & force his fans into a playstyle they don't enjoy.
: Ow the caps. I'll address a few of the points and hopefully give you some satisfactory answers. On top of providing my opinions I just want you to also know that we really care about the community feedback and we're going to make sure that we don't do you guys wrong with the overall changes. 1. Yea, morde is definitely more reliant on his team to succeed, but he will also become a more valuable and important member of the team. Morde's allies will be heavily invested in helping him succeed and this should hopefully create a satisfying feeling of teamplay/teamwork. 2. Not sure what is overloaded about the new morde kit, each spell has a clear and simple use case. 3. Morde is definitely "overpowered in the right situation," but I think this actually speaks to your first point of "less reliant on his own skill." the new kit gives morde many more ways to plan and execute on skillful play, and it rewards him greatly for doing so. We are also attempting to lower his feast/famine nature (for example the E change where a champ hit gives % max shield instead of % damage). 4. The point about experienced morde players having to relearn a lot of stuff is totally valid. Though I think that the current hardcore morde players will have a significant head start on the newcomers as his playstyle is remaining mostly intact.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAQNiqjw,comment-id=00220002000000030000,timestamp=2015-08-15T00:44:36.074+0000) > > ...we're going to make sure that we don't do you guys wrong with the overall changes... **Stop lying to us**. If this were true, you would not go through with forcing him into a duo situation. He feels plain awful & dull now in solo. Not only that, he's factually gimped in solo compared to in duo. This rework wouldn't be going through if this were the truth.
: If solo morde ends up nerfed, we will address it. I'm just spelling out some of the goals/stance on solo vs duo morde.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAQNiqjw,comment-id=0022000200000002000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-15T00:11:15.012+0000) > > If solo morde ends up nerfed, we will address it. I'm just spelling out some of the goals/stance on solo vs duo morde. **Solo Morde is factually gimped compared to duo due to the sheer fact he loses an ability.** Please address this. Give him a solo use for the ability & other areas of his kit which lack when solo.
: There's some truth in what he's saying about morde's kit not having the amount of healthy 1 on 1 interactions that a full top to bottom rework like Sion or Fiora brings to those lanes. CertainlyT is a super perfectionist and he's just calling it like it is here, morde is not the pinnacle of solo lane skill based matchups. That said, I think that we're taking a "do no harm" stance on morde's solo lane compared to live. The solo laner may not be getting to exploit some of the crazy new tools (duo XP, dragon, W) as well as a duo morde, but he should be roughly as powerful/fun as live mordekaiser.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xAQNiqjw,comment-id=00220002000000020000,timestamp=2015-08-15T00:08:53.035+0000) > > ...The solo laner may not be getting to exploit some of the crazy new tools (duo XP, dragon, W) as well as a duo morde, but he should be roughly as powerful/fun as live mordekaiser. **Not even close. Not with losing an ability.** Solo Morde is crap now, please fix. You ruined my favorite champion & how I like to enjoy him. Run your meta-breaking, duo enforcement on some other champ. Don't ruin an old favorite by forcing him out of his classic role.
: I never wanted a champion rework to fail, but....
THE PROBLEM IS DON'T FCKING DO THESE SORTS OF EXPERIMENTS ON PREEXISTING CHAMPIONS! MORDE ISN'T THE RIGHT CHAMP TO FORCE INTO A DUO-LANE SITUATION, IT'S NOT OKAY TO TAKE AWAY HIS CORE GAMEPLAY VIABILITY AS A SOLO-LANER. IT'S ROYALLY FCKED UP. Ultimately, he'll always be stronger duo'd up than solo given the loss of an ability... this' poor form & ought be revised. It will cause toxicity too... people will know this & rage on the solo Morde b/c they'll know he or she is purposefully gimping themselves to do solo lane. It's just flat out unhealthy & insanely rude of you guys to force Morde out of solo lane in such a fashion. FIND ANOTHER FCKING CHAMP TO DO THIS ON.
Rioter Comments
Tygger7 (NA)
: Is Quinn's kit (or her thematic design) really conductive to an adc role
**DISCLAIMER: to readers, I'm aware any buffs should require evaluation as far as parallel nerfing is concerned (as it is, I'm of the belief that she's currently, well balanced--barring some TLC & QoL adjustments/tweaks).** The wind-up on her Harrier auto hurts my soul & it's far too easy to cancel, don't you think? You can literally take steps after it's gone off & it'll cancel/disappear mid-max range. **Also, what do you think about giving Valor W "lingering vision on revealed enemy champions for X seconds," after the big reveal?** If you think about it, Valor already loses the lingering vision mechanic from the form costing him Harrier marking. **Additionally, what do you think about removing the actual Harrier mark bonus from Vault & simply having her fire off a Harrier'd auto as she flips back (besides the fact that this would be incredibly badass)?** Vault applying a Harrier mark interferes with her passive Harrier, further gating its use-viability (which, we have enough of that already with the risk-reward of getting snagged with it) without potentially sacrificing a passively applied Harrier mark. In other words, you can gimp yourself by giving up your passive Harrier to Vault (overwriting the passive in many instances) or gimp yourself by not Vaulting simply because you aren't sure how soon or effectively your passive Harrier will take effect. **As well, what about re-prioritizing Harrier marking to: Large Monsters>Enemy Champions>Small Monsters>Large Minions>Small Minions?** It really hurts her jungle-game & objective-capping capabilities having small monsters equal in priority... also, an enemy champion coming near can also spoil your ability to cap that large monster you were working on--I think it best to put Large Monsters ahead of Enemy Champions for this reason... however, those two could work in reverse, looking at the alternative paradigm (counter-jungling/chunking away a pesky enemy Champion who's trying to get all up on your biznass)... making them equal in priority may do but I despise the random-factor. **Lastly, how about something visual to indicate when a Large Monster or Enemy Champion is within range to be detected/marked by Harrier?** Since her range is low, you want to be as far as possible a lot of the time... but that's very ineffective, as skirting that line can cost you the champion mark; it's just too fickle as-is. This would also present an opportunity to give her a tiny, lil bit more particle flavah. A tiny arrow or chit over-head an enemy champion or mark around their hit-box. Thanks for the consideration & *hopeful,* ensuing chat!! Sincerely, Eyrgos **P.S. TY so much for the changes in 5.6!!! They're incredible, a huge step in the right direction!! I just feel there's more to be done :), do you agree?** > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > Quinns autoattack has got to be one of the most complained things about Quinn, it's horrible and a nightmare and should definitely be changed. I'd compare it to Karthus' old animation. Yeah, it's plain awful; glad we see eye-to-eye here! > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > I think the lingering vision is an unnecessary buff, the main reason for the w is its passive and not its active. It is unnecessary, I don't disagree with you there. The reason I want it is because thematically, it fits perfectly... really immerses that 'bird of prey' aspect of being Valor. As well, it just feels odd that Valor W is the only Valor spell with no add'l functionality. Not only that, it removes functionality (unable to obtain lingering vision via the inability to passively Harrier mark, unlike Quinn). > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > This would basically make vault an autoattack reset, and it would be a pretty huge Quinn buff. Quinn kind of dances the line between not being viable and being overpowered mainly due to her bugs and small issues, and I think that this would push her over the edge. Plus I think it's a pretty cool part of playing Quinn to keep track of when your harrier applies to prevent interferences. Missing the boat here, silly! Vault was already given an auto-attack reset on Vault the other day: http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/31081-patch-5-6-notes "[NEW] GOT THE RESET Now resets Quinn's basic attack timer upon landing." So, the idea is just to make it less fickle/more reliable & infinitely more awesome... especially since it already does this now lol. Also, I agree with you about her dancing that fine line--please read in the disclaimer that I believe she's very well balanced barring bugs/clunkiness. > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > I kind of agree with this, the random factor is pretty stupid. But I kind of don't agree with the list you've put up. The way I would do it is simply to give priority to the target Quinn has autoattacked last. Might I ask why you disagree? I'm just curious, it'll be helpful to obtain that sort of feedback/thought-process. I feel like giving priority to the last target hit could cause way more frustration than good... for instance, say you want to harass someone off Baron before they get too close to steal the final hit but then you want to return to last-hit Baron, only to have procced your Harrier mark onto that pesky enemy champion. Or say you're in a team fight & the enemy tank is bullying you but your top-priority is actually their assassin... you try to push off the enemy tank & then re-focus the assassin, only to have wasted your mark onto the tank. It just seems, hypothetically, far more irritating/nerve-racking than healthy or good for her gameplay-wise. > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > Finally, her harrier targeting range is the same as her autoattack range. If you can hit it it can be targeted. I'm aware of this yet but like I mentioned... I skirt that line often & don't want to sacrifice a detection on an enemy champion merely because I stepped out of auto-range for .001 of a second & now it targets a lesser creep instead. Perhaps a countdown on the passive to when it'll apply next would be the best solution (the current cool-down timer doesn't count as Harrier marking doesn't always occur immediately after, even if within range the entire time awaiting it... maybe changing it to where it's guaranteed to pop the moment it comes off CD would be a good direction... you'd know to get into range or the very next time you did that it would occur immediately), so then you know when to weave back within range. Or else (perhaps in addition to), it'd be interesting if her detection were a little beyond her natural AA range & her Harrier auto's actually had bonus range... this would also further help to guarantee landing a Vault follow-up Harrier AA. It's just a thought, not necessarily saying it's the right way to go but it's intriguing to explore, to say the least. In any case, thank you for the fine critique & good-natured reply! I hope we get to discuss more & that Meddler stops by!!
: @Meddler@Repertoir Since you guys around lately.... Quinn and Valor
**DISCLAIMER: to readers, I'm aware any buffs should require evaluation as far as parallel nerfing is concerned (as it is, I'm of the belief that she's currently, well balanced--barring some TLC & QoL adjustments/tweaks).** The wind-up on her Harrier auto hurts my soul & it's far too easy to cancel, don't you think? You can literally take steps after it's gone off & it'll cancel/disappear mid-max range. **Also, what do you think about giving Valor W "lingering vision on revealed enemy champions for X seconds," after the big reveal?** If you think about it, Valor already loses the lingering vision mechanic from the form costing him Harrier marking. **Additionally, what do you think about removing the actual Harrier mark bonus from Vault & simply having her fire off a Harrier'd auto as she flips back (besides the fact that this would be incredibly badass)?** Vault applying a Harrier mark interferes with her passive Harrier, further gating its use-viability (which, we have enough of that already with the risk-reward of getting snagged with it) without potentially sacrificing a passively applied Harrier mark. In other words, you can gimp yourself by giving up your passive Harrier to Vault (overwriting the passive in many instances) or gimp yourself by not Vaulting simply because you aren't sure how soon or effectively your passive Harrier will take effect. **As well, what about re-prioritizing Harrier marking to: Large Monsters>Enemy Champions>Small Monsters>Large Minions>Small Minions?** It really hurts her jungle-game & objective-capping capabilities having small monsters equal in priority... also, an enemy champion coming near can also spoil your ability to cap that large monster you were working on--I think it best to put Large Monsters ahead of Enemy Champions for this reason... however, those two could work in reverse, looking at the alternative paradigm (counter-jungling/chunking away a pesky enemy Champion who's trying to get all up on your biznass)... making them equal in priority may do but I despise the random-factor. **Lastly, how about something visual to indicate when a Large Monster or Enemy Champion is within range to be detected/marked by Harrier?** Since her range is low, you want to be as far as possible a lot of the time... but that's very ineffective, as skirting that line can cost you the champion mark; it's just too fickle as-is. This would also present an opportunity to give her a tiny, lil bit more particle flavah. A tiny arrow or chit over-head an enemy champion or mark around their hit-box. Thanks for the consideration & *hopeful,* ensuing chat!! Sincerely, Eyrgos **P.S. TY so much for the changes in 5.6!!! They're incredible, a huge step in the right direction!! I just feel there's more to be done :), do you agree?** > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > Quinns autoattack has got to be one of the most complained things about Quinn, it's horrible and a nightmare and should definitely be changed. I'd compare it to Karthus' old animation. Yeah, it's plain awful; glad we see eye-to-eye here! > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > I think the lingering vision is an unnecessary buff, the main reason for the w is its passive and not its active. It is unnecessary, I don't disagree with you there. The reason I want it is because thematically, it fits perfectly... really immerses that 'bird of prey' aspect of being Valor. As well, it just feels odd that Valor W is the only Valor spell with no add'l functionality. Not only that, it removes functionality (unable to obtain lingering vision via the inability to passively Harrier mark, unlike Quinn). > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > This would basically make vault an autoattack reset, and it would be a pretty huge Quinn buff. Quinn kind of dances the line between not being viable and being overpowered mainly due to her bugs and small issues, and I think that this would push her over the edge. Plus I think it's a pretty cool part of playing Quinn to keep track of when your harrier applies to prevent interferences. Missing the boat here, silly! Vault was already given an auto-attack reset on Vault the other day: http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/31081-patch-5-6-notes "[NEW] GOT THE RESET Now resets Quinn's basic attack timer upon landing." So, the idea is just to make it less fickle/more reliable & infinitely more awesome... especially since it already does this now lol. Also, I agree with you about her dancing that fine line--please read in the disclaimer that I believe she's very well balanced barring bugs/clunkiness. > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > I kind of agree with this, the random factor is pretty stupid. But I kind of don't agree with the list you've put up. The way I would do it is simply to give priority to the target Quinn has autoattacked last. Might I ask why you disagree? I'm just curious, it'll be helpful to obtain that sort of feedback/thought-process. I feel like giving priority to the last target hit could cause way more frustration than good... for instance, say you want to harass someone off Baron before they get too close to steal the final hit but then you want to return to last-hit Baron, only to have procced your Harrier mark onto that pesky enemy champion. Or say you're in a team fight & the enemy tank is bullying you but your top-priority is actually their assassin... you try to push off the enemy tank & then re-focus the assassin, only to have wasted your mark onto the tank. It just seems, hypothetically, far more irritating/nerve-racking than healthy or good for her gameplay-wise. > [{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k1Et7oHA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:16:28.225+0000) > > Finally, her harrier targeting range is the same as her autoattack range. If you can hit it it can be targeted. I'm aware of this yet but like I mentioned... I skirt that line often & don't want to sacrifice a detection on an enemy champion merely because I stepped out of auto-range for .001 of a second & now it targets a lesser creep instead. Perhaps a countdown on the passive to when it'll apply next would be the best solution (the current cool-down timer doesn't count as Harrier marking doesn't always occur immediately after, even if within range the entire time awaiting it... maybe changing it to where it's guaranteed to pop the moment it comes off CD would be a good direction... you'd know to get into range or the very next time you did that it would occur immediately), so then you know when to weave back within range. Or else (perhaps in addition to), it'd be interesting if her detection were a little beyond her natural AA range & her Harrier auto's actually had bonus range... this would also further help to guarantee landing a Vault follow-up Harrier AA. It's just a thought, not necessarily saying it's the right way to go but it's intriguing to explore, to say the least. In any case, thank you for the fine critique & good-natured reply! I hope we get to discuss more & that Meddler stops by!!
Eyrgos (NA)
: Riot, you need to make some departmental changes in your company
My opinion is merely that they are not good at their job; of course my opinion can't force them to lose their job, that's common knowledge.
: So you don't like the changes that are going on the PBE so much that you're calling for people to lose their jobs? Yes based on what you said they would still have a job, but not likely the job they were hired for. These changes just got put onto the testing environment, calm down a bit will you?
> [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a7Av1Xny,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-05T05:18:29.626+0000) > > So you don't like the changes that are going on the PBE so much that you're calling for people to lose their jobs? Yes based on what you said they would still have a job, but not likely the job they were hired for. > > These changes just got put onto the testing environment, calm down a bit will you? If they're not good at their job, better than firing them if they have other talents.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: So we all get GP's visual update for free while MF's cost 975.
: They are trying to show how impactful the new lore is. But I think we got the message after the third day.
> [{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M7XW3GyO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-02T05:46:04.215+0000) > > They are trying to show how impactful the new lore is. But I think we got the message after the third day. I could see a maximum of 48 hours... but going on four days now... fcking idiotic.
: It's been controversial, we knew it would be and we knew we were taking a risk (and by we, I mean Events team, the Narrative folks involved, and Riot) but we've actually received a lot of praise for doing so. That doesn't mean I think everyone has been happy, and for players who feel badly treated, hopefully we can make things right, as mentioned by the official response.
> [{quoted}](name=Jaredan,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Qlu7f0e5,comment-id=001900000000,timestamp=2015-08-02T03:09:13.106+0000) > > It's been controversial, we knew it would be and we knew we were taking a risk (and by we, I mean Events team, the Narrative folks involved, and Riot) but we've actually received a lot of praise for doing so. That doesn't mean I think everyone has been happy, and for players who feel badly treated, hopefully we can make things right, as mentioned by the official response. ...what official response? How are you going to make things right? Going on four days of GP being disabled... this' getting freaking ridiculous. I can't believe how badly you've soured what looked like your first effective foray into reviving the lore. One step forward, two steps back. I hate you guys worse than ever now. I seriously despise the Lore team.
: So have we forgiven the lore team?
REENABLE GP ALREADY! This' so freaking stupid.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M7XW3GyO,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-08-01T20:45:11.116+0000) > > Yeah, I know too. After all, Riot doesn't have multiple posts saying he's disabled due to the event and then the fact they weren't even aware of any bugs at the time. The fact he is bugged and disabled is simply a coincidence, and it's silly to say Riot is lying as them stating they weren't even aware of the bug at the time just makes them look dumb. Riot used the "GP is dead" as a fun way to say he is disabled because of the bug, not the other way around. If you've ever programmed in your fucking life then you would know you can't autofix a bug, you have to go through a shitload of code and test lines to find out where the glitch is, it's time consuming If you chose to believe something else then great for you, you're wrong
> [{quoted}](name=TheVishual,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M7XW3GyO,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-08-01T23:13:52.606+0000) > > Riot used the "GP is dead" as a fun way to say he is disabled because of the bug, not the other way around. If you've ever programmed in your fucking life then you would know you can't autofix a bug, you have to go through a shitload of code and test lines to find out where the glitch is, it's time consuming > > If you chose to believe something else then great for you, you're wrong Not true, do your research.
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Eyrgos

Level 30 (NA)
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