Rioter Comments
rujitra (NA)
: No, riot is not going to give you information about other players’ accounts.
Which I pointed out, and as said previously, can understand (it's somewhat common to protect even an online alias such as a league username's activity history these days for various reasons). I'm still more interested in hearing what information they're working off of that makes them say "yes, this system is working". Which was the original point of the post. The fizz afk is just an example of a behavior I see all too often on League.
rujitra (NA)
: How do you know it didn’t flag the account?
You're right, it MIGHT have, however since RIOT commonly refuses to show progress of reports (which I can understand), the player is still actively playing (turns out has it's uses after all), and this discussion has yet to even see a response (let alone an example of what they think show's the system is working) from the company, I'm going to be assuming that RIOT has nothing TO show us the system is effective and has ordered their staff to keep quiet again kinda similar to the whole HK thing everybody was in a tizzy about recently. I mean really RIOT, would ONE answer be so much to ask? I just wanna know how you figure it's working, I honestly thought it was an easy question to answer.
: So...some guy AFKing in your game somehow proves it doesn't work....How, exactly?
I said Practically for a reason in the title. What, pray tell, are the odds of someone leaving IMMEDIATELY AFTER leaverbuster would stop catching it, and not doing so on purpose? It's too well-timed, like it was intentional. I know this isn't 100% positive "would stand up in court" kind of proof, but it's about as close as a player can get without literally violating someone's online privacy by monitoring their internet connection (which, let's face it, would NOT be worth doing even if one was so inclined due to how hard every possible involved authority would screw you over if you got caught). This is literally one of the closest examples one can get of intentional afking after leaverbuster kicks out, aside from a literal in-game confession. Even with no remake available leaverbuster should have recorded this for the purpose of serving as a deterrent by flagging the account for examination. RIOT takes too long to act on unacceptable behaviors as it is, lack of information being gathered about any of them can only make that worse.
Rioter Comments
: I was Permabanned. Now im just bitter.
Hate to break it to you m8, but one game is never what folks get banned over. If you got permabanned it's because you have a longstanding record of douchery and RIOT has given up on trying to "reform" you for the PR. They're trying to cut their losses (in terms of both player dissatisfaction AND being called out for not banning people who deserve it) by cutting you. A decision it usually take them YEARS to finally make (much like every other decision they make). You're neither justified nor believably hurt; given the literal "now I'm gonna go int and ruin other people's experiences!" comment at bottom, you're just petty and finally got more than a slap on the wrist for being a general nuisance.
Rioter Comments
: Games need to have an accepatable average length that is not too long or short. 15-20 minutes is short enough, but should not be the average length of games as that dictates the meta too hard towards early game champions. An average of 30-40+ minutes may make early game worthless and late game champions too impactful and games uneventful. I would think no one wants to be forced to play an early or late game meta. If Riot wants to make games more flashy or eventful then make changes to late game champs to suit that, but make them still weak until they get items.
They did, and they dropped the ball HARD doing it by making almost all of them scale faster to keep up, resulting in lategame "win by stats" situations. Now they're going to buff all the early game champions some more/buff lategame damage potential across the board to compesnsate... Wait. Am I the only one seeing a pattern here??
Boomer (OCE)
: I really don't think they're enforcing this high burst, damage meta for LCS. I do fully believe it's because that's what the Chinese market and player base want. That's where the money is.
You have a point, "Quantity over Quality" is a good thing when it comes to how much dough you have. I just wish it didn't have to come at the cost of quality mid-game.
: I had one 60 minutes game this season. In the end, everybody said. Good game, finally one. Stuff like that. Was good, hard a little bit of strategy from both sides. I miss that.
"finally one." So true, and it hurts to see T_T. Long games might mean fewer rounds played/day, but it also adds up to less tilt acquired on a bad one. The worst issue I used to see in terms of time-related problems was those people who had EXACTLY 20 minutes to queue up or they afk'd cuz they "had to go" due to poor time-management skills. Nowadays I see far more trolling/intentional feeding/throwing because folks are sick of being ignored by RIOT about nearly every time/dps/burst-related concept and can take it out on others more times per day, so they do hoping the string of bad games might get RIOT's attention. Sometimes it does, and then the player gets banned and anything that might even REMOTELY hint at player dissatisfaction immediately gets hidden, buried, or disguised as "just another toxic player making excuses" because they were acting out and it broke the rules (not saying that's okay, but neither is pretending they weren't partly incited by the company saying "we listen to players!!" while actively ignoring most of them). Granted it's few and far between, but It does happen, because RIOT rarely listens to input that doesn't match what they were already planning to do. Be it hold a brainstorm session with the community and ACTUALLY take some of the input to heart, or the norm where they ignore everyone not from their favourite groupings like LCS show-players and pet youtubers in favor of doing whatever they were planning before hearing said input anyway.
: Well win isn't guaranteed, it depends on team comps, but the chances for the game to turn into a win sure are greatly increased.
"win isn't guaranteed," I agree, especially since a lot of scale mechanic champs are only crazy right now due to being reworked to scale faster so as to keep them (closer to) viable. Going for the early game closeout USED to be a choice, a strategy, now it's practically mandatory because in addition to going for a cheap shooter-speed game time where first shot fired is usually the first kill secured if it hits, scaling champions like Sion, Nasus and Veigar now scale uncontrollably in order to fit the current meta (a change which more or less broke them and made them strong in current "lategame" of 15-20 minutes and over, but straight up crazy OP to the point of breaking all semblance of balance if the game reaches ACTUAL lategame). It's been one bad decision after another where RIOT keeps gutting actual strategy in favor of more "thrills", which become dirt cheap due to how easily kills happen now. You're spiraling further and further down the drain RIOT. Please just accept that MOBA is for thinkers/actual strategists that know they're going to have to WORK to take the tank down, and instant-kill team wipe explosions of damage with little to no real effort are more for Shooter games. You'd have a hell of a lot easier time balancing a slower paced game than this current "tanks are meant to be exploded and everything else just dies from a stiff breeze" meta anyway lol.
Lemexis (EUW)
: It would be very complicated to punish, and remember it's the game with no serious real life consequences. Some people play for fun or just to blow off steam after a day, in that case their brain will not be in "learning" mode, they'll just autopilot to relax, which is why they wouldn't learn at all. Or maybe they're just genuinely dumb, and it doesn't make sense to report someone for that. It's annoying when it's a ranked game, but punishment should be reserved for people who -intentionally- ruin the game for others, by toxicity (so report them if they're being toxic after they're doing their dumb moves) or trolling, not for people who throw simply because they don't pay much attention.
I thought the same thing! But I see posts semi-frequently of people wanting to punish it/claiming it's poor sportsmanship to not learn etc. etc. so I figured I'd make a poll and get actual community feedback about it (instead of trying to go through all the people who say it should/shouldn't be a crime to see who's serious and who's just salty after a bad game). I mean, yeah, it can be INCREDIBLY tilting to see your teammate run it down a lane solo with no vision and fall for the exact same bush full of enemies trick 3+ times in a row, but it's not like there's a mandatory IQ test to play League. It's one of the reasons tilt is so common in the first place, punishable or not folks are all different and some of them just... Don't get the memo about certain things. Nothing wrong with being human (although some folks sure seem to think there is mid-game XD).
Rioter Comments
: 'hate posting' and rajitra go hand in hand. he/she tends to defend Riot the same way a loyal dog would. it's not that the person is wrong, it's that the way they get their points across on the boards is inflammatory at best, and straw maning at worst. then downvotes, raji doubling down on the stances, rinse and repeat until everyone else gets tired of trying to get them to see context outside of the bareboned rules. try to see if that wrongful report happened to that danish player is still on the boards somewhere. it'll be a perfect example. TL:DR version of that drama if i can remember right. danish speaking player in a game FULL of danish speakers got banned for typing 'kys'. everyone else wanted riot to reverse that due to 'kys' meaning 'kiss' in danish but rajitra was one of if not ONLY person saying that RIOT was right. going as far as to throw shade at all available translating programs to try to prove their point.
That sounds less like someone legitimately believing the garbage they're spewing, and more like they're either just trolling to try and see if they get something "funny" to put on Youtube so they can hopefully get paid for sitting around pissing people off (or maybe they're just straight-up getting paid to be full of crap, wouldn't surpise me in the slightest these days). Either way, thanks for the heads up. I try to avoid sad individuals like that and you helping me do so with the warning is much appreciated!
: Question: you SURE he was talking about you and not the guy that has a history of getting downvotes to oblivion?
Honestly, it could be, but then why not quote the profile of the guy you were actually referring to? Also I apologize for being kinda mean in that response, regardless of who they were targeting it's a personal pet-peeve of mine to see that kind of targeted insult comment (in what was made to be a DISCUSSION, not HATE posting board), and I kinda went overboard.
iMidg3t (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=KnKitsune,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GWEhlJUV,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-10-21T10:23:44.744+0000) > > Trust me, there are players like this guy who played whole lot more matches and didn't get punished. Remember thr guy who asked why he got banned, only for tantram to come in and reveal that he got reported 500+ times in a month? And that dude only got 2week banned btw xD
Hey, when you're trying to make money off broadcasting yearly videos of people playing games against eachother, you can't AFFORD to ban people who are clearly detrimental to your fanbase XD.
GilxeN (EUW)
: ***
"over downvoted" - *has more upvotes than downs on the very comment you replied to, as well as 0 downvotes at the time of this response on the same comment* Ok lol. By all means though, jump in and insult people by calling them things like "delusional" just because you don't agree with them more, it's no skin off my teeth.
Rioter Comments
: Of course the team with more CC is going to have an easier time winning than a team that is pure DPS. Have you ever wondered why the common answer to Yi is "Just CC him?" It's because Stopping them effectively neuters their DPS. You can't attack while CCed. You can't cast spells while CCed. You frequently can't even walk while CCed. CC is one of the two answers to damage; the other being higher damage.
"Of course the team with more CC is going to have an easier time winning than a team that is pure DPS." - That's kind of EXACTLY MY POINT lol. RIOT has said on multiple occasions that they want to "promote champion balance", but what, pray tell, is balanced about the team with more cc literally always winning regardless of the other team's comp unless there's a significant skill difference? I'm not concerned with cc countering pure damage, I'm worried about it negating the entire point of everything else that isn't cc (you know, like those other roles we used to see more of? tanks, healers, champions that did a little bit of several things instead of being focused solely on cc and lockdown, any of these ringing a bell?). As it stands we seem to be in a meta where if you don't do insane dps, or even better, have a crapload of cc to spam, you lose unless you outplay incredibly hard (in a game where the devs try to keep overall skill levels about even in their matchups). THAT is what's worrying me.
rujitra (NA)
: It is a Prisoner's Island. Because under this plan, normal players would all have higher MMR than these trolls/etc - thus they would be matched together. It may not be exactly called that, but it is the exact same.
Lindwurm literally just suggested a better algorithm be used! They never specified that players be permanently stuck there. So AGAIN I point out, once they stop the behavior they'd pop right back out of that "bottom of the bottom bracket". This isn't Prisoner's Island, it's hitting the absolute bottom of the ladder, if you have to try to get there, it's your own fault when you do (and it's already possible even with the current system, if you int long enough, so is the current system a Prisoner's Island too? I thought not), only as it stands it takes far too long, far too many "victims" and then you'd be stuck there until you managed to play like a decent human being FOR EVEN LONGER. Prisoner's Islands also have no hope of escape until you manage to convince either the developer or the community you have reformed. All Lindwurm was suggesting was accelerating the process to make it more noticeable (which to be frank, would probably keep anyone not specifically TRYING to hit rock bottom from doing so, as opposed to now, where some players have been playing for years, see no noticeable consequence to trolling/being intentionally toxic for an extended period of time, then wonder wtf happened when it finally kicks in). Just like only high elo should be matched with high elo, fake/intentionally low elo should be matched with itself as well, otherwise you are, in fact, encouraging the behavior by matching hard inters with their intended target audience that they want to victimize/generally be a nuisance to (not to mention the part where it's a bit of a double-standard to do otherwise). Just because they can screw themselves over doesn't mean RIOT should have to go out of their way to protect them from themselves.
rujitra (NA)
: The post I responded to suggested lumping those players in games together. That is the definition of a prisoners Island.
"A better algorithm for determining MMRs could solve this problem without anyone being banned. If serial AFKers and players like this got their MMRs zeroed quickly enough they'd all be trolling and rage quitting on each other and out of serious players' game." That is not a prisoner's island, it's their mmr dropping to reflect their atrocious performance. They'd still be able to get back out by playing normally/not intentionally trying to ruin the game. The only way they'd be stuck there is if they still kept being a prick. At that point, their behaviour is reducing their own ability to play and they'd be getting matched with other people "playing" the same way. Please don't try to twist a relatively fair idea like that into something like prisoner's islands where once you're in, you're in until you make an alternate account (and can end up there based on nothing more than popular opinion, as to actual stats that PROVE you've been doing it when you see something like image in OP, which the comment you replied to was talking about). It confuses the issue and makes it even LESS likely RIOT will try an actually effective solution to the problem, thereby encouraging the problematic behavior even more. Is that REALLY what you want?
rujitra (NA)
: Riot has repeatedly stated that they will not be implementing any form of Prisoner's Island like this.
This isn't a prisoner's Island. It's a consequence for literally breaking the rules of the game. There's no information you can provide to justify the player in OP's post behaving like this aside from "it's literally an inter bot program", at which point the drop in mmr (or hopefully equally likely, the ban BEFORE they've ruined 50 straight matches) is still justified since 1; it's third party software being used without RIOT's permission and 2; it's still breaking the summoner's code by repeatedly committing a reportable offense. All OP was suggesting was an algorithm that actually does it's job effectively be implemented, and all Lindwurm was suggesting was appropriate consequences be dished out for the behaviour. If you int 30+ games in a row without making any effort whatsoever and it shows like this, you're not very good at the game even IF rito refuses to admit it deserves a punishment. Your mmr should drop based on this ridiculous farce of a performance until you hit a skill level where even with a hard feeding inter on one team the game is still 50/50 win or lose. If you're literally playing so bad that only happens against other people doing the same thing well, WELCOME TO YOUR SKILL BRACKET BABY! lol
: Alternate use for Orange Essence
Mate this is the rant section, take a good idea like this literally anywhere but here. Hopefully they'll listen to you!
: What you "Observed" is someone getting CCed and dying. Like they should. Even tanks. People aren't supposed to be invincible save for a few abilities/items. Sounds stupid, but this needs to be said: "If you hit them, they will die." It's part of the game.
I'll try to point this out one more time, I'm not against cc, I'm against TRYING TO MAKE THE GAME REVOLVE AROUND IT TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL ELSE by spamming it. I like seeing varied teamcomps that try other things too, but as it stands you either spam cc, get lucky and insta-delete cc users before they can react by using an assassin/burst-oriented kit, or you die for being in range to use your abilities most of the time with no real recourse to take against it. Apologies if there was a misinterpretation somewhere, I'd figured I was clear enough to get the idea across, but evidently I need to work on that. League is more fun IMO when you see more than "the regulars" on the rift. We've always seen certain preferences in champ select, don't get me wrong, but it's getting downright obnoxious lately. A good example I can think of is; when was the last time you saw a team with like 1 or 2 cc abilities total do well against a team that revolved around firing hard cc as much as possible? In my case, I haven't seen it happen once this entire season. Maybe I'm an outlier and just have bad luck, maybe not, that's why I started this discussion to get feedback from the community.
: To your first point. Having some asshole flame you in casuals should ALWAYS be frowned upon. People sometimes come to video games because life isn't going too well and they want to have a good time and escape reality, I 100% get that and agree with you. But you seem to misunderstand me a little, I specified competitive, where people go to be competitive and try their best. To your second point, I started playing this game when I was 12, the Caitlyn voice line that goes "sorry boys, I left the fuzzy cuffs at home didn't even register for me until 5 years later when I realized and had a little laugh about it. Back then I watched a little bit of the pro scene, but because it was genuinely interesting to watch and the games were more about personality and creativity, whereas now the games feel like a real sport where mindless companies are just trying to make money off of it, and don't care about the league scene at all (which is honestly a perfect summation of league's lifespan). Like I said in my last post, there is a casual mode, and there is a competitive mode, go to casual if you wanna have fun, go to competitive if you want to prove how good you are and try to get better. To your last point, I agree that people are definitely way too sensitive now a days and will complain about almost everything they don't like or simply disagree with. It's pathetic, but the real problem are the companies like League that think pandering to the sensitive people is somehow going to make the rest of the community suddenly act the same. Just because you tell someone something, doesn't mean they are going to do it, and I think League has shown that with it's god awful punitive system. I am 200% certain that more than "0.006%" of the community has been negative enough to be banned and the numbers they show are a blatant lie. I find that there aren't many people that play league daily, who haven't been banned at some point. It's probably around 10x more common today than it was 5 years ago as well because the Tribunal existed, where ACTUAL HUMAN BEINGS from the community rated how toxic they were, and not just some sensitive pussy AI that links onto trigger words like retar# and %%%g## instead of actually doing it's job.
I know you specified competitive, but I pointed the casual part out because in my experience in any game with both options, the standards/opinions from them tend to get blended/carried between modes a bit. Also isn't there still some element of human report checking? I could've sworn there was a post by RIOT at some point explaining that they still had people checking reports just to make sure (or something to that effect, anyway). Also while I do take extended leaves of absence from the game on occasion, I've never been banned and usually play daily while I'm here (I totally agree with you on the blatant lie about how many players are bannably toxic though, so maybe RIOT just lied about that report checking too XD).
: Your counter exemples are dumb. you are the one thinking in black and white, there are many scenarios in which you can die yes. if you die 10 time in a row without much significant kill/assist participation, you are bad, dont justify yourself. the Elo system works, those who are higher elo are basement dwellers that play league 24/7 or do it for a living. it doesn't work for your average player who plays 8-10 games per week. "the mathetimatical system" that you keep mentioning that you probably don't know anything about is called variance. it is true that it works in a long term, it is used by gambling houses and games like poker. except league is not gambling, and we shouldn't have to play a huge statistical amount of games to make the system work how it's intended.
To be brutally honest, Your logic isn't as rational as you think either. There are exceptions to every rule and not everyone who goes 0/8/0 is doing it intentionally (which is why reports get screened and RIOT ultimately decides if a player gets punished, not the person reporting them based on an assumption most of the time), sometimes a top/mid just gets ganked alot without recieving help from their jungler before the early surrender hits. Other times you end up on the wrong end of a brutal counterpick. Ranked AND normals both have an element of luck to them in that despite RIOT's best efforts, sometimes the matchup just isn't even (no such thing as perfect after all) for everyone in every lane. To quote a friend of mine; "when shit happens and it ain't nobody's fault, why punish people for it?". Also keep in mind that even IF someone ends up sucking hard for like 10 matches in a row one day, sometimes that's a result of outside factors, like if your internet is being bogged down by traffic increases in your area (internet traffic, not people driving by your house XD) resulting in frequent lagspikes that weren't happening to you yesterday, and won't be happening to you tomorrow. Riot's doing their best to find a balance with what information they have access to and what factors they can control. They've decided to use their current system because it's the least manipulate-able one they've come up with so far (as in it's as unlikely as RIOT has been able to make it that players will find a workaround/exploit to get to ranks they don't actually belong in) that's still fair to as many users as possible. Also "those who are higher elo are basement dwellers that play league 24/7 or do it for a living." seems rather... polarized. You can't just say "everyone who does this thing behaves like that stereotype" and seriously expect to be right. So who's really trying to justify something here? Oversimplifying something is just as bad as over complicating it mate.
: you can't reliably "kill steal" all the time, and it will give others assists as well. if you feed without a high kill OR assist participation you are bad, you don't deserve your elo.
Oh if only it were actually that clear-cut and simple.{{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: I've played sports almost my entire life, and none of that casual stuff either. The ones where you need to go to tryouts each year and be evaluated to get on the best teams. I played soccer, baseball, and a bit of hockey, and I can assure you that if you were not having a good day, you would either be benched and forced to watch for most if not all of the game, or be forced to be the reason you're team is losing, **which in person is a lot more embarrassing and makes you feel a lot worse than in a video game where said person can just hide behind a monitor without a care in the world.** I don't understand why talking trash in a video game is a bannable offense in the slightest and I am genuinely curious as to your reply to this, because I am open-minded about most things, but nothing I have seen has made me second guess my thinking. I grew up on xbox live chat rooms and real life sports, and of course the xbox live chat rooms were more toxic in general with the trash talking, but you severely underestimate how much of a %%%% some parents/kids are when it comes to real life sports. Calling someone a worthless piece of shit should not be bannable, and I am astounded that it currently is. If you are sensitive enough that a random stranger on the internet calling you bad is enough for you to not want to play, maybe just stick to casuals and not join a competitive environment where people are trying to win and will get mad if you are doing poorly, and are the reason they are losing. I have been on the receiving end of this toxicity, and of course it can be disheartening, especially so when the entire team is ganging up on you like a fucking hive, but not once have I quit playing a game because someone in one of my games was being mean to me. I mained healer in Overwatch, where people would go on voice comms and yell curse words constantly if you decided to heal someone more important than them. Despite being called a stupid bitch e-thot in more than 50% of my games, I still hit the top 0.1%, because most of the time, if you are being toxic in chat, you are still going to play the game and try, and it was very often that I'd have the same person that called me a worthless piece of shit, say "wow good ult" later on (although most just end up shutting up and not flaming anymore).
What you seem to be missing here (although I'll admit it's wonderful to see someone who can just roll with it as much as you've stated above) is that this ISN'T one of those sports, and ISN'T always part of a competitive environment. It's a game people can play at home, when they're done being out and about for the day/relaxing, and having some shitelord hard-flame you during your downtime can be extremely aggravating compared to when you're out on the field. Also keep in mind that if not for the deterrents like what you've mentioned above, the shiteheads folks have to deal with in the sports scene would probably be considerably worse. We live in an age where a lot of expectations about online behavior are still up for debate/in flux, and folks are going to try to push the envelope both ways to get what they want while they can before we reach a state of "this is practical, this is not." and standards become more widely recognized/enforced. Also keep in mind that while League does HAVE a competitive scene, not everyone is here for it. Some folks just saw a game they liked the idea of and wanted to play. There's also no telling how old everyone logging in is, they could be a senior, a highschooler, or a 13-year-old who still needs to "get their parents' permission before going online" (bonus points to anyone who gets that reference), but with organized physical sports, most competitors are going to be somewhere around their prime years, or at an age where they're still able to compete. And as for my own personal observation, well... People seem to be not only becoming more sensitive these days (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), but also considerably more focused on anything that they DON'T like (and trying to "right" these things as though they're some kind of universal "wrong" just BECAUSE they don't like them, which is kind of self-centered/egotistical to be honest), as opposed to focusing on things they DO like (and just enjoying them). This isn't limited to League, or even online interactions in general. I'm noticing it more and more pretty much everywhere I go as time goes by.
meowwow7 (NA)
: you're being too generous with that time if they focusing the tank with cc and dmg
That was, as stated, the most horrendous example, the extreme outlier. In that particular match our opponents had kind of just stopped deleting poor Garen, and started toying with him instead (doubly painful to watch, since his q lets him break out of some cc).
: I am guilty of playing champions that lock down 1 person and hard CC them to death because this stupid game has too many stupid mobile assassins that will 1-shot you if you make a single misstep. (Everyone is an assassin, even Caitlyn) {{champion:54}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:90}} These 3 are my go-to now. I am sick of this meta as much as anyone else.
I mean, this discussion was never intended to shame anyone for doing it, and even if you as an individual play someone who's cc heavy that's fine. The problem I'm worried about is when people start ALL locking in cc heavy champions and maxing out cdr to spam it as much as humanly possible. Dying because a Morg landed a q on you is just a Morg being able to play the champ. Dying because you were locked in place by 3 or more separate instances of cc that effectively keep you from joining ANY teamfights (that RIOT tries very hard to make feel like important parts of the match) is practically just being locked out of the game when if it doesn't happen to you, it'll happen to a teammate of yours (which means trying to split push really just makes a 4v5 by spam into a 3v5 and lets the enemy team bulldoze your objectives with 5x your manpower when you're the only survivor). There's just too much encouraging this cc overuse, so everyone's doing it.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: what elo do you play in cause I see shit like trist mid, lucian top, ekko jungle, almost no CC comps lmao
To be honest, I stopped keeping track of elo a long time ago when I quit playing ranked due to all the salt/toxcicity/general admissions of being a total prick people kept displaying there, so I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. However as stated in OP, I was usually playing 3 matches a day or so, and almost daily I would run into comps with at least 3 cc heavy champs in them. It's died down to about one per day due to general lack of interest after getting crap like Vi mid on my team going 0/8/0 or seeing aforementioned cc spam. It just kinda kills my desire to keep playing when these kinds of things happen.
IainG10 (EUW)
: If they cut CDR from mages, they need to take it from assassins and brawlers as well. You should have to choose between hitting often and hitting hard. Now to be fair, I am all for that. I just don't want to see assassins become even more oppressive (and remember, that will force more mages into supp, where they don't belong).
That sounds pretty reasonable to be honest. When I started playing league stuff had longer cooldowns across the board, and deciding WHEN to fire your abilities was a lot more important than it is now, when only ultimates, item actives, and a few exceptions (like Aurelion Sol's e) have a cooldown that prevents spam/makes a missed shot no real inconvenience by comparison.
: So, someone gets chain CCed, and dies for it? That's what you're complaining about this time? That's what SHOULD happen. If the enemy team is devoting those resources to killing the target, they should be dead. Don't care if you downvote, but if you eat their CC and the damage followup, it only stands to reason that your life should hit 0.
AS EXPRESSLY STATED IN THE TITLE, these are observations, and I'm honestly concerned where they seem to be leading, please refrain from trying to start a fight here by accusing people of "complaining" (or whining/whatever else folks use to start crap on these boards). If you disagree with the observation, that's fine, but trying to devalue other's opinions for not matching your own is petty at best and I'd really appreciate not seeing it here.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ionian Vulpix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZp00m9g,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-20T04:08:31.484+0000) > > So, someone gets chain CCed, and dies for it? That's what you're complaining about this time? That's what SHOULD happen. If the enemy team is devoting those resources to killing the target, they should be dead. Don't care if you downvote, but if you eat their CC and the damage followup, it only stands to reason that your life should hit 0. That isn't the point. The point is that spending all your CC to blow up a single target has no room for punishing because of CDR. You shouldn't want to just chain CC a tank and blow him up but since CDR is Op as fuck it doesn't matter, you get a pick and have all your important skills back in 5 secs anyways.
Exactly, what I'm worried about here is the lack of counterplay to it, even items like qss have a long cd on them and they'll save you from being spammed once, every like 90 seconds (which still doesn't work if the spamming team sees you pop it and holds off for a few seconds, or has cdr and just re-spams as soon as you're no longer protected). When you can force another engage 20 seconds later by just backing up a bit and re-group-pushing a turret, there isn't any actually effective counterplay to be had. As more and more folks realize this the cc spam comps become more and more common, and at least one player is effectively being kept from partaking in teamfights on pain of automatic, "nothing you can do about it" death. Furthermore it's just not humanly possible to dodge the cc sometimes unless you're literally scripting to have your champion auto-move out of the way the second an opponent presses their cc ability (after all, when they fire it from a bush you're usually not going to see it coming in time to be able to move out of the way, and there's plenty of cc that is on-target, where no skillshot is needed, just the lock on). The damage creep that led to a cheap thrills-focused insta-kill meta is bad enough, at least let us keep playing the game instead of taking EVEN THAT away too lol.
: Some kits that could use updates this year
I wouldn't mind seeing Purple Hulk ( {{champion:36}} )'s passive get changed to something that either comes into play in a more meaningful way, or at least becomes more interactive, so to speak. His current one is just kinda... there. It's not something the "Doctor" (or his opponents) really end up having to take into consideration outside of early laning phase in most cases.
Rioter Comments
: Can we please have a dynamic meta again?
I wholeheartedly agree with OP, I end up bored trying to use stat-building keystones/champions like thresh, veig, and Sion in current meta because I KNOW those stats are going to come into play during one of the teamfights we're basically scripted to have nowadays. Sometimes a good split (where someone sneaks in a couple tower kills/a jungle objective) happens, but usually at the cost of the match for whoever was splitting as the enemy team wins a 4v5 fight due to the constant nerfing of poke, siege and defense options, and then runs your towers and base over like a steamroller with 5x your objective damage because you weren't there or tried to split for like, 30 seconds (side note, could this be related to the general decrease I'm seeing in map awareness all around from both teammates and opponents? Is it just because people aren't afraid of split-pushes anymore?) and have absolutely NO hope of holding back the 3-5 opponents even under tower. One of the biggest selling points RIOT has, or at least frequently points out for League, is the size of their roster. Sounds good on paper/to new players, but the size of the roster that's actually effective/competitive just keeps slowly dwindling (to the point that selling point of roster size seems almost dishonest somehow)... Champion diversity made League so much more fun back when I started playing and Aatrox was new, but now instead of "oh they're playing Teemo top, I should watch out for shenanigans" it's begun to feel more akin to "oh, they picked a champ that's good in this lane, I should counterpick it specifically, with no real regard to my own team's composition because they're the only option I have that can keep up during laning phase". There's a lot less of the tactical stuff like being able to farm better/gank faster/splitpush more effectively, and a lot more focus on raw overpower potential/instant deletions/wombo combos. There also seems to be a lot less build adaptability than what I remember in years past, with many champions having essential entire 6 item sets, or items you literally suffer for going without while playing them (god it used to be funny watching a mobility build try to chase you down while being pelted with Mundo cleavers, and then walking away as they realize you just "outran" them and escaped to turret... WITHOUT boots of any sort). Maybe the top-tier esports scene (which I personally have never been interested in, only having ever played ranked just to see how far I could go, then sticking to norms after nearly getting heart disease from the sheer volumes of salt and toxicity folks display there) is different somehow, but these problems seem pretty universal to me.
Terozu (NA)
: Isn't that basically just a super OP Twitch?
Twitch actually does damage aside from his poison passive though, I was thinking a champion who didn't shred you, and his slow acting poison basically was his only damage (hence why I said I have no idea how they'd balance it, maybe as a jungler who jumps in, poisons to give the debuff, jumps out, and just has good jg clear with effects that do extra damage to monsters? or a support but that makes the champ a choice between having a utility/healer/any other support, and having that guy that's just kinda there until he manages to apply enough stacks). It'd be a champion who really doesn't fit into the current "omg insta-burst is everywhere!" meta though, so not sure how it'd do.
Rioter Comments
: I like the idea of incorporating more gameplay and decision-making into Mundo's passive. Building gray health as a resource and then using it/expending it sounds like it could be fun! The rest sound like pretty minor tweaks, which could work out but are likely too low scope for what a possible Mundo VGU would look like.
Glad to hear it! Mundo's passive always felt like a more trade focused version of Garen's to me, but after laning phase it kind of falls out of the equation for him, just doesn't help him outside of really long fights. I still don't HATE how he plays now, but like I said, it feels "off" somehow. On the other hand, I feel like Mundo's one of those champions who serves as a good starting point for newer players who aren't well versed in microplay or building stats to make your abilities hit harder. I also LOVE stat-builder champions like Thresh, Veigar, Sion, and (sometimes) Nasus, so seeing Mundo get a "healing factor" you could farm up and keep track of instead of just building max hp and praying nobody has %current or %max health damage would make my day, heck, probably my entire season XD. P.S. A friend gave me another idea for the Purple Mun, where his kit basically gets retweaked to change his ultimate off of healing, and makes it into his farming method for my passive idea, he thought it'd be cool to make his R either a shield or a damage reducing buff, and then a percentage of what you soak up with it gets added to his grey bar, or turned into hp per 5 seconds that he recovers. Sorry for throwing a barrage of ideas in here, just thought it was worth mentioning.
: Where? Quote where you kindly "asked for information". And I don't need to treat you super kindly when you're in a moment of tilt/impared judgement. If you can't create an actual post where you ask for help instead of calling for nerfs and threatening to quit, then don't create a post at all. I'm not going to wade through your bull crap to look for the "help" you're asking for (since the majority of it is calling for nerfs)
"I'm posting here hoping to god I missed something, and that some kind soul will please explain to me what, since the in-client references to champion abilities are very poor descriptions that often lack multiple important details (such as actual stats for an ability's damage, cooldown times, etc.)." LITERALLY RIGHT IN FIRST POST. Good day =)
: If you had actually asked for information to improve, then I would have treated you better. However you came across as a ranter, crying for nerfs, and saying "imma quit if this isn't getting nerfed".The only time you asked about information was >This CAN'T be legit, can it? If it IS legitimately just that he has this much abusively broken damage, do we at least have an ETA on the incoming Rumble nerfs? Both of which come off as "I just lost the game and so I'm coming to the boards to whine and call for nerfs" If you had said "hey guys, I just lost against a Rumble, he swept the floor with me, any advice on how to fight him for next time?" You would have had tons of people responding. However you decided for the Whiny route, leading to a harsher answer because people don't like whiny, as it means immature, and noone likes to deal with immaturity. And yes, the LOL Wiki is updated fairly frequently. However, the best way to learn is to play as said champion. Rumble will be on free week eventually (he was free most recently, the week of Sept 10), and before that there are tons of videos on youtube of people playing rumble.
I DID ask for information, in both original post and my reply to your first comment. You showed up in a moment if tilt/impared judgement for me and instead of contributing helpfully, you slammed me and showed off while keeping it low-key to avoid any obvious report-able content. Something I see a lot of upon checking your post history. "would have treated you better?" yeah, right.
: Your entire attitude in your post is saying "Wah I lost, when r Rumble nerfs, GIVE RUMBLE NERFS OR I QUIT". That is why I'll speak plainly and clearly to you. I don't have to watch it. I just have to look at the match to see how little you actually know about the game. A)You rushed teemo. NEVER do that. It is a bad item for teemo. B)You had 0 extra mr. Teemo has a base mr of 30. You didn't even take mr runes. Rumble rushes magic pen, so after his 33 magic pen, you essentially had negative mr. C) He had boots before you did. We can see when items were bought, did you know that? He had base boots at 4 min, and upgraded boots at 9 min. You had base boots at 3 min, and upgraded boots at 11. So just from that, we know you don't have an accurate remembrance of what happened. D) has all the information on his abilities. His q has a 10/9/8/7/6 second cooldown, and is active for 3 of those seconds. He also does 50% more damage if his heat is above 50 (the halfway point) Essentially, if you itemized better, you wouldn't have this problem. And to talk about how you're just calling for nerfs. I quote : > Is this seriously something RIOT's balance team let make it into the game, or did someone figure out how to use cheat programs in league? Frankly if it's the first one, I'm out, uninstalling, straw that broke the camel's back etc That is just you complaining about a middle ground winrate champ. He isn't really good right now, and honestly if he was good he would be played in Worlds, since he has an amazing teamfight ult (as he has been in past years) >If it IS legitimately just that he has this much abusively broken damage, do we at least have an ETA on the incoming Rumble nerfs? He doesn't need nerfs. Teemo will probably be getting nerfed before Rumble is, and that is who you played. Teemo actually has a 57% winrate against Rumble. YOU GOT OUTPLAYED. Learn from it. Buy magic resistance, AND take magic resistance runes instead of bonus health (especially since its 15 bonus health at lv 1, not really going to help you as much as the 6 magic resistance. If you had taken that instead, you would still be positive when Rumble buys his 2 magic pen items instead of negative) And above all else ACTUALLY TRY TO PLAY AS RUMBLE BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN. Coming to the boards and whining that he "does too much damage, and if he wasn't cheating then I quit the game" does nothing to help you. It just gives anyone who looks a reason to laugh at you. If you want to learn how to play against a champion, play as that champion. Learn what they do.
Well then, thank you for the bits of information you DID provide in between all those "oh I know so much better than you here's why now go learn to play" insult paragraphs, and while I feel I should have had more move speed than him with the base boots and Teemo's move speed boost (once I got it), but double-checking the math adds up to it not being the case, so my mistake. I'll also admit that yeah, my OP did sound pretty harsh, being already debating re-quitting for several reasons (undesirable community members that are more focused on showing how much better/smarter than each other they are instead of actually behaving like decent human beings and general sense of repetition, among other things) and coming off a full tilt (resulting from multiple crappy matches that had hard flamers, inters, or other kinds of general toxic jagoff in them, or even just being stuck against premade 4 and 5 man teams of mostly if not all m7 users for their respective champions while being one of only two or three people on my own team who even HAVE mastery for theirs) and yeah, I was swayed a bit by some of my teammates' comments such as "rumble is so broken rn", as well as the general rumor I keep hearing about resistances being near-meaningless now and there being way too much damage in the game (Hence why I tried to build Seraph's for the shield to hopefully mitigate some of that damage). THIS IS NOT me saying folks should go insult/harass said teammates or people with those opinions next, just to be clear. Tilted or not though, I did actually come to the boards to learn more before making my decision, since coming back from my last break was honestly a pain in the arse and I wasn't sure continuing to play was even worth it, seeing as one seems to need to do quite a bit of research just to play the game without getting gimmicked to death over and over or ultimately losing to someone else's copy-pasted build they saw someone else who also plays that champ use for it's raw stat power. As for "actually trying to play as rumble before I complain" I'd be happy to, if I could just magically have the B.E. to unlock him or he was on rotation right now. P.S. Is wiki actually considered a trustworthy info source these days? Back when I was in school all the teachers expressly forbade using it to gather your info because any random schmuck could "edit" any bs they wanted into any topic you looked up, though it might be different by now. I suppose I'll go check.
: i don't give a fuck what anyone says 90% of the time, like flame me for how i play or abuse me personally, but i draw a line at hate speech, and wishing harmful things against people that literally have nothing to do with what has just accrued ( wishing death upon family members and shit ) i believe the main reason i haven't been banned yet, because yeah i do get pretty flamey in games, but i attack peoples ability to play league of legends, i attack things they've done or not done in the current game, and if i do personally attack someone its something like "oh you're just a right asshole then" but i get riots point of player privacy, and making a new account? nah just name change if it gets to bad.
OMG i completely forgot about name changing! XD.
Gimme3Steps (EUNE)
: This is getting out of hand. Wtf is this ban system???
Mate, IDK if you entirely understand what is/isn't bannable, but there's a LOT more than you're claiming in these logs that you can get reported over. Harping on folks and repeatedly asking people to report your own teammates is one of them. All caps chatting to them like they're an idiot when you're "asking" (more like demanding in the case of that GANK GANK GANK part) is another. Taunting teamates with "bait statements" such as "gl with your ban", and "you're getting banned" is a third, and literally pointing out a teammates mistakes then claiming it's just them "refusing to gank because you died once" when there's no way for you to prove it is yet another. The big overblown gg ez is pretty low-key, but some folks still consider it poor sportsmanship deserving of a negative attitude rep. Even the stuff among these that isn't directly bannable in and of itself is still a contributing factor to getting yourself put in RIOT's "get rid of this toxic little shite" bin when you do it so much in just 3 matches. Furthermore how do you know the players you were so mad at DIDN'T get punished in some way? It's not like Riot tells anyone even if they do.
: Why is your day ruined? Why does an anonymous idiot stranger have that kind of power over you? They're not going to kill your family. They **can't** kill your family.
Because frankly, harassment online is still harassment. There are cases of people being cyber bullied literally to the point of committing suicide. It IS a real thing, it DOES happen, so maybe instead of harping on somebody for having human emotions, or trying to "logic them out of it", one could try just acknowledging their struggle? I understand you're trying to help this player, but denying the concept that's troubling them not only doesn't help, it gives the kind of folk who DO run around being a general arsewipe to others the excuse that "well you're just being a wuss because you're letting me get to you" (granted they never word it quite like that, and they're actually TRYING to get to you, but you get the idea, yeah?) One of the "modern problems" the internet (not just online gaming) community still has yet to solve is how to take things like this. Yeah, they might be a random stranger, but if a random stranger walked up to you on the street and threatened the same example (to kill one's family), you'd be justified to call the cops and immediately press charges. Online, it tends to kind of get glossed over because while any idiot can take a swing at someone right next to them, few have the ability (be it lack of resources to travel, or lack of technical know-how to track an internet connection) to actually make good on that kind of threat, but should that really make it any less illegal to do it? Wow, this got kind of long lol, sorry about that, but I think I got the idea across, let me know if anything doesn't make sense!
: i've had this many times actually and riot can never actually go into detail about if the person is banned or not, but if they do say shit like that, i go straight to riot support and make a ticket because it is taking it to far.
I get what you mean, but to be honest, it would be a pretty potent deterrent if RIOT would stop hiding this kind of info. Imagine everyone who sees your main account in-game started dodging because they know about that incident where you wished death/cancer/insert horrible fate here on someone over nothing? You'd have to make a new account just to play the game again, and then you'd probably be a bit less of a general arsewipe XD. In all seriousness though, sometimes I wonder at what point "protecting player privacy" (When nobody should know who owns which account in the first place, just which accounts have mouthed off/been a general disappointment) becomes "enabling toxicity". Should we start a discussion/poll for this and try to see where everyone draws the line?
: So you lost against a rumble and call for nerfs? How about you learn how to play against him before yelling for nerfs(for a champion that really doesn’t need nerfs)You were playing teemo, a ranged top laner who has a 52-53% (currently one of the best top laners), against a melee top laner that has a 48-49% winrate and are asking for nerfs for the champion with a lowet winrate? Learn to play instead of whining because you lost to a better player.
> [{quoted}](name=BladeSteel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c6ThGoKA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-13T16:45:42.681+0000) > > So you lost against a rumble and call for nerfs? How about you learn how to play against him before yelling for nerfs(for a champion that really doesn’t need nerfs)You were playing teemo, a ranged top laner who has a 52-53% (currently one of the best top laners), against a melee top laner that has a 48-49% winrate and are asking for nerfs for the champion with a lowet winrate? > Learn to play instead of whining because you lost to a better player. How about YOU actually watch the replay so you can see him literally just walk in, flame for free farm and damage, and walk out, then immediately chase me down at nearly twice my move speed when he didn't even have boots? I asked for honest discussion and extra info about the champion, BECAUSE I WAS CERTAIN that unless the player found a way to cheat and make his cooldowns nearly 0, I must be missing info about his kit (crappy ability descriptions in client are still crappy after all), some mechanic or feature that balances out his insane free damage with no resource costs. That wasn't a "call for nerf omg i lost so it's broken" post, it was me pointing out there's got to be something that makes the sheer damage spam ok, because otherwise they would already BE nerfing it and I'm hoping to find out what it is. So please take your attempts to start a flame-war elsewhere, as SOME of us are actually using these boards to discuss the game and try to get better understandings of the various parts of it.
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