Dwaryy (EUW)
: Conqueror Replacement and Dark Harvest
Good idea on overpower, but that wouldn't be very good for the Overkill. The target can just kind of walk behind turret for a few seconds and be fine, would also rob a few people of a keystone.
: I mean, it scales with level and is similar (but different) to lifesteal. A bloodthirster or Death's dance already accomplishes this, but against both damage types, scales with AD, and does so before you trigger the passive and without a duration. Moreso, it's a number, and that number can be tuned, like maybe 10% of the original shield is a better spot for it to land, or even only 5%.
Ok, ADC's arent meant to get a 1k shield while also being able to fill up another shield on top of that. It's just an overloaded item.
: My comment was referring to the low elo comments, I should have been more clear on that. If the counterplay is "they don't know the secret", then it's not a very good champ. Especially if that one thing can just make him useless in high elo.
What do you mean "they dont know the secret?" Literally making no sense.
: Honestly, I don't see ever how these changes accomplish your goals. Ill go by the points and explain why: **- Crit users have an item path they are excited about.** So, crit items are all down to 25%, which is fine tbf, but to reach 100% critical strike chance you need to have 4 crit items. On top, IE still feels necessary for the attack damage that it gives and if you're not a mana-adc then ER will still feel bad. That's fine, but that means you have 3 attack speed items and 1 attack damage items to go through for your 4 items. That leaves only 1 slot left, which feels a lot worse than the current 2 spare slots. Especially since most adc's will still be building the storm razor because it just feels like an actually good adc item. **- Crit users have defensive options that fit into their core builds.** So, just phantom dancer? Which was already defensive? And actually scaled with sustain? And supports? I mean, be very honest, how much does a 280 shield really matter when the item itself has such low stats? At least throw something more to it, if you want it to be that item. Plus, why the hell remove the dueling characteristic of the item? The PD change feels horrible all over the place. And since now crit marksmen have to go 4 items crit (to feel good, or they are just off worse than before) it really doesn't give much room besides that for defensive options in their core build, unless they go literal stormrazor > fighter items. Which, where's the crit then? **- Crit users become more satisfying for all levels of play.** There's no good early item outside of stormrazor to be added, ER change doesn't make it a broader item perse and IE feels like a really gimped but mandatory lategame option. How will any of these items make them more satisfying to play? --- Now I have been thinking myself about what changes to make and it's partially inspired by Phreak. Ill go by how I'd attack the goals step by step and then propose a couple of token changes: **- Crit users have an item path they are excited about.** 1. This means that at every item they should feel a spike, that is as standalone as possible as crit can be. At no point should an ADC feel forced into the rest of the items just because they are going crit. The multiplicity of crit, attack speed and AD already fulfills this roles quite hard so lets not try to force this even more. 2. However, there should still be item "synergy" where items together work well. This means that build paths actually feel as such. An example can be drawn from fighter items because they do this well, while it shouldn't be drawn from tank items because they don't do this well: Fighter items complement weaknesses that never lock you in choice but the choices feel impactful. Tank items however are generally stat balls that hope to make the tank last longer at which point choices feel meaningless moreso. **- Crit users have defensive options that fit into their core builds.** Defensive options can exist in multiple variations. Sustain (lifesteal, vamp, regen?) , anti-burst (shields) and general (resistances/ %dr). Since lifesteal is already very availlable for adc's, this is a lot less of a priority but it does mean that crit items shouldn't be locked into a 4 item path. Alternatively, crit items can be broadened to also have this option, but there is the chance both yasuo and tryn might poach that which is the major issue there. It could be a ranged only item though which would work. Anti-burst and general are the more likely 2 types of defensive options, and while these already exist outside of crit, only current PD does it somewhat. But that's very duel-focussed and doesn't offer much vs an assasin who kills you before you react. I have a very big opinion on defensive options for adc's though: They need to be a lot weaker, as they shouldn't be common to build, it feels bad for an assasin or diver to not be able to do their job. **- Crit users become more satisfying for all levels of play.** In short, I interpret this as crit has to be satisfying at 1, 2 and 3 items because low elo likes to brawl, aram earlier and doesn't generally get to experience end-game in a fair way. Farming up 5 items is harder and it's rare to reach sivir's 500 cs wincondition. So, there has to be competition for not only stormrazor, but also a solid 2 item and 3 item path. --- Alright, so let's get into it. Firstly, I'd like to state that I'd be an extreme proponent for a systematic crit change (that goes along the idea of replacing chance with critical strike power, which simply amplifies all your attacks with that %damage, which can be done quite straight up but it also shouldn't take away too much of ashe's uniqueness. I have a lot of game design reasons why that's the actual way to go, but that's a longer post, so let's just assume we're changing items only). **- Zeal items: ** Currently {{item:3086}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3087}} and {{item:3094}} I'd like to think zeal feels a bit bad to have to build in first item. A big reason for this in my eyes is the movement speed, as it doesn't really give much power until later on. Same with the critical strike chance. Besides that, there's a lot of daggers going into the items. So, let's do this: {{item:3086}}: Builds out of longsword + brawlers gloves, total cost - 1100 gold ( down from 1300) + 15 AD + 15% critical strike chance {{item:2015}} Builds out of dagger, total cost - 1100 gold (up from 800) Now also grants +5% movement speed _Now zeal is a better farming item while shard is a better kiting item. And it gives a baseline AD to crit items. _ {{item:3087}} Same path, cost up to 3000, build path is now 1100 * 2 + 800 + 15 AD + 30% attack speed + 25% critical strike chance + 5% movement speed Same passive {{item:3094}} Same path, cost up to 3000, build path is now 1100 * 2 + 800 + 15 AD + 25% attack speed + 25 critical strike chance + 5% movement speed same passive _Their path is probably more satisfying now to build earlier. These items look like they are good stand alone items but without AD they aren't really. These changes should help while keeping them balanced overall_ {{item:3046}} _(very experimental, drastic change)_ Builds out of zeal and recurve bow, total cost - 3200 (up from 2700) + 15 AD + 40% attack speed + 25% critical strike chance + 5% movement speed Spectral walts: Movement speed bonus down to 5%, radius down to 500. Now has a new passive (replaces Lament) - Attacks against champions deal 1% current hp true damage, healing you for the same amount. _More focused on the dueling aspect. Dueling generally likes defensiveness but being able to focus out tanks without completely busting them (current IE) makes more sense. It also gives a slightly better feel for yasuo/tryndamere while reducing their overall PD spike (less crit) and the passive is slightly less powerful on them (since they are more around dealing the big crits)_ {{item:3085}} _(slightly experimental, doesnt need the energize if that's too much)_ Builds out of kircheis shard and zeal, cost up to 3000 + 15 AD + 25% attack speed + 25% critical strike chance + 5% movement speed Wind's fury same New passive (bolting strike?) - Now also energizes attacks, energized attacks deal 50 - 80 bonus damage and grant +20% movement speed for 1 second _As this item is often already complementary to on-hit builds as well as useful on some other crit marksmen (ashe and jinx come to mind), it feels in a good spot. It is however, generally build on less mobile champion and some of the movement speed could be shifted to the passive, but that part is not necessary, but this is the reason kircheis shard is in the path (also makes more sense the ms is still there this way)_ **Other items (spoiler, now also Zeal items)** Currently only {{item:3031}}. That feels bad doesn't it? Let's change it. We have some room left to explore. With the zeal changes we can confidently say that build path's feel better early and midgame, there's some synergy but it's not necessary and Pd is already filling the sustain role without giving crazy lifesteal. So, let's propose some items: {{item:3031}} Builds out of zeal + B.F sword + zeal, total cost 4000 + 70 AD (2250) + 30% critical strike chance (1200) New passive: The sharpest blade - Attacks against champions or epic monsters grant +5% critical strike chance, +5 AD and 5% armor penetration, up to 4 stacks lasting 4 seconds. _Infinity Edge really should hit that fantasy of the marksmen dream where it makes you a damage god. Being a 3-item god is a bit risky though, so I think pushing it towards a high price is worthwhile, especially considering zeal items also gained a bit of power. However, it's risky if it's reverted to a burst item (anti-squish etc) so I made it more into a sustained dps item. _ {{item:3161}} Builds out of Zeal + Caulfields warhammer, total cost 3400 + 50 AD (1750) + 15% critical strike chance (600) + 10% cooldown reduction (250) New passive: Dragon's patience - Grants +5% critical strike chance each 0.5 seconds up to +25%. This bonus is consumed on critical strikes. New passive: Dragon scales (active) - Gain 20 armor and magic resistance for 5 seconds. Resistance penetration is 50% less effective on you during this time. (cooldown: 90 seconds) _The concept of spear of shojin being a crit item is interesting, especially if it also keeps it's defensive aspect. Now I personally like the idea of keeping it as an overlap between fighters and marksmen so making it not be completely reliant on critical strikes feels better. _ **Hextech shield-bow-cannon** Builds out of Zeal + Stopwatch + pickaxe, total cost 3400 + 50 AD + 25% critical strike chance Passive - Lifeline: After taking 300-1000 (based on level) damage within 3 seconds, gain 100 (+10 per level) adaptive shielding for 5 seconds, based on the highest damage type you took. Triggering lifeline activates Adaptive Blasting Protocol (cooldown 90 seconds) Passive - Adaptive blasting protocol: For 5 seconds, gain 25% critical strike chance and critical strikes grant 20% of the adaptive shield. --- So, apparently im at the character limit, but here's my concepts
didnt really read this except saw that last passive, and thats busted as hell, do you want ADC's to just stand there and tank everything wtf lmao
Nea104 (EUW)
: Yes, I was referring to Champs that are pretty ~~dum~~ low-effort to play, and that still give high rewards just by smashing the keyboard, basically. You can think at Brand or Yi, just to be clear. So one could think that _at least_ they are just low elo stompers. When you find out that even in high elos that kind of things happen, then you realize that something is very wrong, and shouldn't be allowed by this company.
The thing about playing these "low-effort" champs in high elo is that they dont become "low-effort" when you reach that level of play. Take Riste for example, probably one the best Garens, yet no one complains about him doing well in Diamond because trynd is more commonly seen. Any diamond player probably knows how to deal with Garen, but Riste knows his limitations and uses the stat check champion to his advantage. Same arguement can be made about Annie Bot as well.
: No, it means the champion has a problem if it's only good against people who don't know how to play the game. Pink Ward is also possibly the MOST dedicated Shaco main at the moment, I'd expect him to do good. Same way Scarra can steamroll on Kat.
I can use AP shaco again as a reference for that. "Only good against people who don't know how to play the game" thats exactly any normal person playing AP shaco. If they know that Sweeper lens literally shuts down AP shaco then they win the lane immediately (unless the AP shaco is extremely good at him, although that can be said about any champ). Therefore, AP shaco is only good against people who dont know how one of the games free items you can start with counters him. Does this make him a broken champ? No, it doesent. If you dont like that example, I can use Garen. Garen is a stat check champion, and cant be played in high elo very efficiently most of the time. However, he can stomp lower elo's if he has the same amount of skill as his opponent. Are you saying that because Garen can do this, he deserves a nerf or a rework? I hope not, because some people like Riste can bring Garen into high elo and do well. No insane mechanics shown, just good game knowledge. But fine, just incase you need another example to prove my point, how about Mordekaiser. This champion is going to get reworked soon, but not because he can do anything like steam roll games in low elo. This champ if played correctly can easily take the team on his back just because he knows that champion. Again, this champion isnt seen much in high elo, excluding the few morde 1 tricks. However, I can give a reason as to why certain champs like Garen and Trynd can dominate in low elo commonly, along with others such as teemo. Low skill champs are easy to play and abuse in low elo simply because the people dont know how to play the game. Should the champ be nerfed or reworked because of that? No, they shouldnt because if you play better they are easily counterable. I can't give many tips because I'm only Gold myself, however I can recognize that its not Trynd thats busted when he gets fed, its that the team isnt playing around to kill him. It's not hard to kill a trynd, just lock him down with CC as most low elo trynds dont get QSS.
: So tank mains aren't top laners?{{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Even then, a lot of bruisers counter tanks so I really dont see this guys point
: I mean when the main argument is "he only stops in low elo", that's a pretty important detail
Anyone can stomp with any champion anywhere. Pink Ward plays AP shaco and can stomp occasionally against extremely good players. Does that make AP Shaco broken?
: Well no. Champion CAN be useful and effective. However, a champion shouldn't be stomping in high elo. Low elo makes sense because people are still learning the game or are simply less experienced in how to play the game. If a champion is outrate stomping in higher elo where people actually know what they are doing, then it typically a problem. Which is what I believe Nea104 was talking about.
It is common for Riot to balance the game for pro play, and I don't personally see Trynd being played competitively. If you want evidence just look at Ryze and Sej, champs who have given Riot problems because they are good in pro play but not solo que. If Trynd was stomping challenger games then I'd understand, but you do realize people can do the same thing trynd did in diamond with literally any other champion? I'm sure people can stomp hard with renekton, yet no complaints are thrown his way on this thread.
Nea104 (EUW)
: Another low-effort / high rewards champion. Thought he was just a low-elo stomper; saw him stomping in Diamond for no reason. That's just disgusting.
Oh no, how dare a champion do something in DIAMOND! Because some champs just shouldn't be played there effectively right?
Jamaree (NA)
: Old Akali wasn't fun to play against either, what? Old akali was "Do you have the stats to survive me? No, well I guess you are dead." She was LITERALLY a stat check.
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jAIqJ8hv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-30T07:42:07.115+0000) > > Old Akali wasn't fun to play against either, what? Old akali was "Do you have the stats to survive me? No, well I guess you are dead." She was LITERALLY a stat check. So is Garen. So is Annie (basically). Having champions be "stat checks" is fine, as long as they promote a style of gameplay. Garen promotes trading with his passive, and knowing his damage, and when to correctly use your W, etc. Annie requires good positioning and helps to CS. Akali provided her R as her mobility, and her W as her way of out playing people. If we're talking about counterplay, old akali could be counterplayed by a lot of options, unlike the new akali which was WAY less counterplay. Hitting a blind Q on lee sin against old akali meant you predicted her and outplayed her. New akali means you just knows where she is, but have to wait on her terms to fight for a decent amount of time. Many akali players have stated they prefer old akali as it was more fun, with these recent reworks they have been shifting how champions play, isolating their mains. Counterplay was available to everyone, and now there isn't much to do except hope the akali decides to let you live.
: I miss the old aatrox
They ruined his playstyle, they even admitted they didn't make him feel like aatrox, and that wasn't one of their best reworks in this one YouTube video.
: Shaco interactions with Red trinket sweepers, pink wards, dusk blade (with poll)
As someone who plays AP shaco and has to rely on them not buying that, I agree immensely. Just have duskblade and control wards reveal them, that way theres either some counterplay or not every champion can get one.
: "Everybody knows"
"Yasuo" "OP" lol
Anteren (EUW)
: RRR - Ranked Russian Roulette
Imagine having a shitty family emergency then you get banned from playing ranked for a while because of that.
Moody P (NA)
: the whole selling point of new runes was to be able to adapt play styles with rune choices Of there are runes designed in ways that exclude you from using them at all it runs contrary to what it advertises itself as
Want a champ that doesent have a shield to use this? Cho'gath, locket, full health. There's your "new" thing. It's possible for every champ to use it, just not effectively.
: Repeat after me...
Tahm Kench, Sion, etc. Have fun.
PyroLux (NA)
: I'm sure that your 23-2 katarina didn't do anything and it's just solid proof toplane is useless
you weren't supposed to see that part
Purgë (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=silver 5 btw,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2udPEN3i,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-17T23:49:45.044+0000) > > Cam is disgusting since release. > Sion is fine imo. > Gp abuses klepto and he will be gutted to unplayability if the pbe nerfs hit live. > Reng?Way too hard to play post lane unless the enemy already losing. > > the rest are just random champs that are barely relevant sion is not anywhere near fine , i played against him as gp i as abusing klepto and got my full build he still shit on me hard even tough he got ganked 4 times cause he was playing agrroo he carried the game with score of 1/6 cause he had 4000 hp from grasp and his W and he deal way to much damage
If he took grasp that's on you LMAO. He's only strong with comet + E.
: oh ok
They just need to nerf his E damage and raise his Q damage. The problem is that his E does a shit ton of dmg, so getting comet and scorch is just better than going tank or AD runes. They need to fix sion, not murder him.
Escheton (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-18T05:48:21.905+0000) > > gut E damage > buff Q damage ^THIS I hate having to go Sorcery poke E early game because Runes Reforged destroyed his full AD runepage/Full sustain-Tank Mastery page set-up he had before that allowed him to spec Q.
To me, as someone who's play Sion quite a lot, I agree. They should focus him on his AD damage, and make him viable without that stupid fucking E. I didn't choose Sion to play volleyball, I chose him so that I could feed and still get kills. {{champion:14}} {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
: Ivern chromas
"Season Set Chromas" something like that
: All 'ryze rework!' memes aside I agree. I just want him reverted to that badass ult that has like splash damage. I forget exactly the details but if you use your cc, it spreads to nearby enemies, the Q splashes and the E was like that new E that when you kill something, it spreads everywhere.
Maybe they could make it where while active he gets 30.% Tenacity and 30% Move speed, while also all his abilities spreading his E to all near units. Yes I know this is a shit idea, but a man can dream cant he?
jasonkik (NA)
: I really like your vision of Garen and I agree that his theme is rather simplistic and boring compared to the other champions. Speaking of simplicity, the kit you want to see him have is rather.... complex. To me, Garen is suppose to be a champion for newbies, much like Warwick. However, Warwick has the great balance of simplicity and viability in his kit and I would love to see Garen in the future with that balance. But I don't think Riot has any plans to give Garen a rework anytime soon.
This ^ Also, that E was fucking berserk m8, 30 armor per round? Hell no! Excluding that gj though! {{champion:86}}
: [Champion Idea] Mura, Warrior of the Glaciers
The main problem is that it leaves no diversity. The scaling's don't do that much, if they are buffed it would. So maybe 65% bonus AD? And maybe some higher AP ratios? Just my in-professional thought though. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Famix,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uE0PnwKq,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-07-20T04:02:01.616+0000) > > Usually OP builds got deleted fast. I don't get what do you mean by "deleting". Because it's not like you wanted to patch out the old issues given that the sole intention of your petition is to showcase them; that and, it would mean we should just play the current version of the game. But if you mean "deleting" as in getting killed first. It's still a no. Because we've had shit like AP Yi, released Xin, 6 Sunfire Eve, old school Jax, old school LB, old school TF, meta-fucking-golem (this includes each and every bruiser in the game at the time; they would all build the exact same build to never die while hitting like a truck), old school Vlad etc etc, who were both OP and definitely did not get deleted fast. The game was also buggy as shit. You think Morde with his 180+ staple bugs is bad, till you actually play the old League again and remember all sorts of junk that used to happen back in those days. Trust me, you won't like the old League.
Never said it was balanced. But it is wanted by allot of people. I've talked to allot of people on league, and allot of them would like to play some of these old patches. And I should have chosen a better word than deleted. Think more of patch than deleted.
: > [{quoted}](name=Famix,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uE0PnwKq,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-20T04:17:09.141+0000) > > I address The player pool. You address it based on an assumption that it would draw in more players -- that may be true and may not be. But it won't draw in suddenly 40-50% more players, and COULD split the game 30-50%, which means that, after the initial surge, it will be splitting the player pool. The bigger thing though, however, is that it's expensive as hell to maintain and support two clients, two servers, and two separate game versions. ESPECIALLY if you want to be able to further balance it.
I also addressed it as I said that they could give the players the abilities to make servers. This way it wouldn't cost them anything, but would still help bring in people.
: > [{quoted}](name=Famix,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uE0PnwKq,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-20T04:01:36.350+0000) > > That's why it would be the old client. Old engine and all. That still requires server infrastructure, maintenance, splitting the player pool, and, frankly, a debate over WHICH old version to use. It's prohibitively expensive and complex for the benefit provided. :(
I address The player pool. Also the only debate of which old version would be what version to start at, which I would assume would be either the full game's first patch, or first beta patch.
Famix (NA)
: Usually OP builds got deleted fast.
Like Evelynn with 6 sunfire wouldn't last forever since it got patched into a unique passive.
: That will be the worst matchmaking ever, since everyone would just be there to try and outdo others with old and busted builds, spamming the most borked cancer shit at the time again and again for lulz. Can't see why anyone with a brain would bother. Imagine From Software actually provided a separate version of Dark Souls in which it was before the GiantDad getting rightfully nerfed, just for the sake of "do you remember that borked shit we used to have? what about we experience it again?". Do you think we're gonna get a fun o' goofy time where everyone is so innocent and playing with each other under the sunshine and shit? No, what will happen is GiantDads everywhere, because everyone wants a piece of that pie in being the cool kids who supposedly "played in the past and knows what they're doing with this old busted build cuz haha so funni". Whatever your intention of bringing this petition up, it's but DoA the instant you said things like "you'll remember things such as Evelynn with 6 Sunfire Capes..." No.
Usually OP builds got deleted fast.
Infernape (EUW)
: The thing is, it would be incredibly hard for Riot to implement. They tried it themselves. The old game builds builds, champions, masteries, runes etc. didn't play well with the game's engine in its current iteration. League has changed drastically in the past 8 years both visually and technologically.
That's why it would be the old client. Old engine and all.
: league used to be garbage tbh. and that's coming from somebody that's been here since 2012. (OG account got banned, then I came back, then left until late 2016)
Not everyone thinks that way. I will always enjoy what they add to the game, I just want to enjoy some builds that can't be enjoyed today.
: read the most recent ask riot. they address it.
I address what they could do.
Rioter Comments
: >DARK STAR IS A GAMEMODE THAT IS RELIANT ON MECHANICAL SKILLS AND **DOESENT REQUIRE MUCH THINKING** ^I'm sorry to have to tell you this but this excerpt right here is why there won't likely be a ranked mode for it. For a similar example, ARAM doesn't have a ranked queue due to the rng champ factor. As much as I'd love a ranked ARAM queue and there is a huge playerbase, I accept that it'll probably never have ranked.
Yeah, don't think anything will come of it, even if league is heavily reliant on mechanical skills, having almost no thinking involved kinda puts it out of the question. A man can dream though!
Rioter Comments
moyosword (EUNE)
: Why im i level 1 ?
post a comment and it will be fixed <3
: when will y'all add voice chat?
When the world stops being toxic. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
SSmotzer (NA)
: Legacy Game Mode and Legacy Vs.
Huh, didn't realize this was a post, I did a whole rant about something like this. Kinda-ish. Good idea though! (Lets just hope that we can get {{item:3068}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3068}} , 6 Sunfire capes FTW!)
Porocles (NA)
: It cane take a bit for your account to sync up with the boards. It looks like you're 30 now, though! :D
Yeah replying fixed it, thank you :D
Rioter Comments
Famix (NA)
: It now says im level 30 on my boards profile, but when I go to post something it still says I have to be level 6...... I {{item:3070}} everytim
NEVERMIND. Posting a comment fixes it. :D
Famix (NA)
: Well it says im level 1
It now says im level 30 on my boards profile, but when I go to post something it still says I have to be level 6...... I {{item:3070}} everytim
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