: I think he's right
Nice new meme format. http://i.imgur.com/1vAwF0r.png?noredirect
: It would be funnier if it said vayne. and she is getting them
It would be funnier if it said Yasuo.
: I picked Janna and the enemy HateDaddy picked Nasus
Well, Nasus isn't meta, so can you really claim that Janna is just good in the meta???
: You either get one shot or one shot someone these days. Whatever happened to a good 1v1? I voted yes damage output is ridiculous.
Tanks got cucked, that's what.
: yeah, let's ignore how the early game doesn't matter. Nerfs to the early game makes lategame buffs less relevant because you wouldn't be able to generate the lead as easy.
Yasuo's a carry. It doesn't matter behind he is, the moment he finishes PD, he's back in the game. The moment he finishes IE, his effectiveness is mostly only dependent on team compositions. It would be just as difficult to justify tipping the scales toward's Kog's late when everyone knows their early game barely matters. Either the shield change has enough impact that it will even out his laning against mages - making the entire purpose of these changes pointless - or the shield change doesn't have enough impact and it just ends up being a buff anyways.
: They're nerfing his levels 1-2? lol?
40 to 0 less shield from levels 1 to 10 doesn't come anywhere close to the power resulting from 45 more shield at Lv 18, 200 extra ult range, and significantly higher MR.
: Thresh players, which item?
Besides for what you've stated, Ancient Coin also has the early CDR. It's also considerably more synergistic considering you want to be able to focus on hook/harass opportunities. However, getting zoned from the wave is also a problem because that's where the coins come from, and while the mana sustain is a nice bonus, Thresh of all picks isn't that reliant on it and you'll probably pick up Redemption or something with a Frozen Shroud later on anyways. I would pick up Shield whenever you need that sustain in lane, and Coin for when you plan on snowballing. Which is to say that you'll pick up Shield as a default, but Coin when you feel more confident in the matchup or your lane partner.
: If grading is based on your character and position...
I don't know about that... While _it is a nice idea_, Riot's grading system already feels janky enough as-is. There are plenty of correct ways to weigh it based on the matchup, but knowing Riot, they would probably only make things worse.
Zedex (NA)
: They're buffing him because he's garbage stat wise. Yes, he stomps noobs and careless laners, but he's not very good in Higher Elo, as you stated. Thats something they try to avoid(being crap in High ELO and Pro play), especially with their newer/better champions.
Saying he's crap in high elo is like saying that Blitzcrank or Rek'Sai are shit in high elo. It's just not true.
: Now, now, while I agree Yasuo is obnoxious and understand anyone who bans him, the buffs are logical - they are trying to make him good against Mages mid so that he's less top. I don't like it either, but these changes are not that groundbreaking.
You see, there's a huge problem with that: It's a straight up buff to remove a weakness. They're not nerfing his strengths. Or trying to create other opportunities to counter him. It's just a straight up buff.
: A 60% winrate is an issue?
Poppy has only been that week since the tank ~~update~~ gutting.
Jikker (NA)
: That is why you mod. Save Parthurnax, save the Blades. And besides, once you start modding Skyrim, you can't stop
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=p4LUmAWl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-16T02:37:14.824+0000) > > That is why you mod. Save Parthurnax, save the Blades. > > And besides, once you start modding Skyrim, you can't stop Until something gives. ######Then you have to tediously figure out the cause, only to give up and start over anyways.
Rioter Comments
: which update was worse; assassin or tank?
The tank update gutted their items and made most of them pretty shit. Then they tried to buff the tanks themselves and left all but 3 or 4 in the dust. It further compounded the issues with the assassin update because their ideal counter got cucked so hard. Now it's spiraling out of control as the only viable tanks are still getting nerfed, leaving the game a shitfest of AD burst.
: I think "demigod" classification requires a certain kind of origin and transcendence of human lifespan- despite her power, I'd never think of Taliyah as a "demigod", just a human with rare magical power born from ordinary humans- she was born not that long ago, and presumably she'll die at an ordinary age. Similarly, Illaoi is an ordinary (if physically strong) human who channels power from her god. The Targonian Aspects themselves are certainly demigod-like, but I'd argue that their human vessels are not. Syndra's interesting, because it's possible she's ascended to the demigod tier through her sheer power, but I wish there was more lore to go off of for her. While Syndra climbs to that higher existence, Ivern was just kind of pulled up to demigod status. Everybody else on your list I do consider demigod tier or higher (though Tahm is a demon and Braum's legends/origins are kind of a wild card).
I listed Taliyah much for the same reason I listed Syndra - _abnormally_ powerful magic. Taliyah's young and inexperienced, but it's easy to see her as an earth equivalent to Janna. Edit: Rzye could be a demigod of his own making, for example, but it isn't the same as being born with that absurd potential. Illaoi and the Targonians channel power from their respective gods, and if the only defining feature for a demigod is to have godlike powers, then its simpler to group them together than to worry about the method of obtaining that power. Brand is also a "demon", and both Tahm and Brand could be lesser gods in their own right (of Fire and Greed/Gluttony). ######I have a sneaking suspicion that Braum is one of Ornn's brothers.
Bârd (NA)
: No. Most of them are far below that power level.
Though some could conceivably be interpreted as demigods; {{champion:32}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:44}} + Any of the Darkin, Ascended, Shadow Islanders, or gosu-level martial artists, but with their origins being more conventional, that's easier to dismiss.
: I respectfully disagree. Old Poppy had a tough theme going; specifically, the kind of "tough" look you can only get by going through some kind of personal hell in your life. She lost her father, lost her home, lost everything, and had to rebuild her life from the ground up, and it showed in both her looks and her voice.
"Lost her home, lost everything, and had to rebuild her life from the ground up" is more than a stretch, that's a headcanon. She lost her father to Noxus, became Yordle ambassador to Demacia, and joined the League of Legends. None of this showed in her personality. Her appearance was that of an armor-clad Yordle, so there was little to no attachment there to her lore. Old champions were just... really not coherent.
: How did poppy get destroyed exactly? I understand sion becoming less goofy and galio becoming stupid were big changes. But poppy didnt really have a massive character or model change with respect to her original design
A lot of people complain about the fact that she isn't "gritty" anymore, or something like that. The current Poppy is a straight upgrade in every conceivable way regardless, so they have to nitpick about something.
: Kog Maw's ult needs a better ground indication of its AoE
Veigar's [W] Dark Matter seems to have the same issue.
Rexxiee (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=FantasySniper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MbGhNgA9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-14T20:45:33.409+0000) > > Oh no, a toxic lane bully (that still has an insane pick rate) got gutted? > > https://i.imgflip.com/1sw9jn.jpg 12% pick rate 43% win rate "WOW what a good champion still broken nerf her more". Jhin with 31% pickrate and 51~52% win rate but hes "perfectly balanced".
Where in the hell are you getting those stats? Not even the shitty Champion.gg has those numbers. Jhin is hovering between 51 and 48% from low to high elo with a 20 to 15% pick rate, and Cait is at 44% win at the worst with a 20 to 10% play.
: It seems like all the Caitlyn abusers hopped onto the Tristana train
Tristana counters Jhin and Vayne, it was the most obvious conclusion.
Rexxiee (NA)
: Caitlyn is still sub 44% wr in plat + and diamond +
Oh no, a toxic lane bully (that still has an insane pick rate) got gutted? https://i.imgflip.com/1sw9jn.jpg
: Why not let Towers do True Damage? Or maybe let them change to True after reaching max damage?
> A lot of people keep suggesting true damage to improve the Turret's damage output. After all, minions won't take more damage with the way turrets deal percentage health damage against them, right? The reality is that that's not a viable solution; since all it does is change armor stacking to health stacking, and it punishes tanks much more than the squishy troublemakers. _Tanks are the ones we want turret diving_, because they are ideally the ones that can't kill you under turret. _Unlike the squishy troublemakers._ This has come up way too often for my liking. True damage on turrets is an unhealthy idea. Period.
: Practice tool time Edit: Confirmed it does. It's quite the considerable boost too. Were you asking for URF reasons? ;)
No, it just so happened to be the right call in an ARAM game and it got me thinking - thank you!
Rioter Comments
: Ornn in ARAM?
They said they'll have special rules for his passive in other gamemodes.
: Don't most marksmen build 80% crit instead of 50% these days? Outside of that, marksmen tend to bring their own steroids. Yasuo's steroid IS the doubled crit chance. Marksmen *also* fight at range. Yasuo fights up close. It's those subtle differences that separates Yasuo's late game power in comparison to hyper-carries. He's not BAD late, but he's not some hyper-carry monster like people make him out to be.
Yeah, like I said, they have to forgo something in this otherwise "rounded out" build to have that much crit. ADCs with AS synergy like Twitch, Tristana, or Vayne can skip over their BotRK or IE for another Zeal item. The point I'm making here about Yasuo's passive is that his steroid is so powerful it lets him skip items in his build entirely. Unlike Vladimir, Ryze, or Tahm who have to build around their steroids, he's more like old Azir - who double-dips into items, hits the cap, and has no apparent loss in power budget to show for it. Yasuo is a hyper-carry monster. Like how Kayle uses her ult, or Twitch and Vayne use their stealth, he can invalidate anyone trying to focus him with his Windwall. Even though the main method of dealing with melee carries is kiting them, you can't exactly do that with Yasuo because his ult is his main method of engage, and he'll more often than not kill you before you have a chance to escape. Not even the likes of Yi, Trynd, or Fiora are that bad because they generally have difficulty getting into range even with help.
MysterQ (NA)
: Why is DrainTank vs GrievousWounds so Binary
It's because GW is a slap-on, one-point-wonder hard-counter. Unlike resistances or penetration that are generally inefficient without other synergistic stats, you can buy it once (and for relatively cheap) and completely forget about healing. If they were to implement 10 or even 20% reduced healing on various items, you would actually have spend more than one über-efficient slot to properly counter it.
Sujiren (NA)
: Can we bring back pink ward trinket?
I don't know about you guys, but whenever the game hits that stage, pinks are almost immediately destroyed anyways.
: _**back then**_: ur teammates are retards and never use ward thruout the entire game? If u need that vision, u can still get wards for urself and carry urself out of bronze division. **_now_**: ur teammates are retards and wont ward at all thruout the entire game? Good luck with current ward trinket. You cant buy stealth wards. And the trinket dont even last long enough nor regenerate fast enough to have 1 ward up full time. Suck it up, and rot in the bronze hell. Wait, you are a support main? Cool, recall every 2min 30sec for ward recharging or u wont even get to have 3 stealth wards up in the map. EDIT: bronze and silver
I'm in gold rn, and I can call out ganks ezpz. I main support and I barely need sightstone until we actually start taking tower. In fact, I'm seriously considering doing away with Yellow trinket and just building Red so I can proactively prevent teleports.
: Who wants the KUMUNGU JUNGLES to be faction now?
So uh, I really like the concept of more properly establishing the Kumungu Jungle in lore. But you completely lost me on the horoscope tribe thing and I can't help but think of that as anything but a joke, I'm sorry.
: It also would have taken way longer.
: 1) He has to choose between Shiv's wave clear and bonus damage and PD's safety. That's a price to pay for a weaker, yet doubled, crit chance already. 2) He's squishy as hell, anyway. It's not like spending in other areas is going to help that much at that late game point.
PD is definitively better for Yasuo than Shiv. Shiv's bonus damage is incomparable to the damage resist, MS, unit ghosting, and extra attack speed from PD. He doesn't even have any want for waveclear because his resourceless [Q], [E], and autos are already so efficient at it. To put this "budget bonus" into perspective, this is the most common Yasuo build: {{item:3046}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3072}} {{item:3026}} And this is the "typical" ADC build: {{item:3031}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3072}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3026}} Yasuo's autos average 225% AD. The typical ADCs' average out to 175% AD. Yasuo can replace Frozen Mallet with Maw, Mercurial, Death's Dance, or even a Last Whisper. Yasuo also gets 50% bonus armor penetration from his ult, so he usually doesn't even need a Last Whisper. Yasuo also benefits from AS more in the form of static CDR on his [Q]. ADCs have to sacrifice lifesteal or (more likely) armor penetration to build more crit or survivability. More often than not they can't even build any CDR.
: You guys don't know the difference between scaling WELL and scaling FAST
Yasuo's damage penalty is more than made up for by the fact that he doesn't need more crit items. The fact that he needs half the crit items other carries need means he gets to spend more in other areas - so he could stack AD after and deal more damage anyways.
: He sucks against any mage that can close on him. Bad. But not just those mages. Orianna beats him. Syndra only has to bait his W once with a stun, and he's dead. Annie can just drop Tibbers _past_ his wall. Malzahar is a rather well-known counter to Yasuo. I'm sure, with a little thought, you can think of a half-dozen other mages he dies to easily. R range will have minimal impact. It's such a slight change that it _really_ won't do much. 200 range is a lot on champions that stay in the backline, but no part of Yasuo's kit allows him to do this and function. As he's usually close enough to the enemy team to hit _any_ of them with his ultimate as-is, this change is probably unnecessary, but it won't do much _for_ him, either. The shield is nerfed by 40 in early game (100>60). When he's weakest. At the same time, he gains 45 maximum shielding in late game. That's not that much in late game. And your title is wrong, anyways. He's not prominent in every ELO. He has an abysmal _.6% pickrate in the LCS_ (0% win rate), and 12.6% pickrate (48.5% win rate) in diamond. That's not prominent. And, let's not forget that this is leading up to the _Worlds Qualifier Patch_. Everything is going to need to be shifted towards Worlds, the only exceptions being buffs that would break things in Bronze and Silver.
It's good to let the hard counters exist. He shouldn't stomp every opponent in lane just because he's Yasuo. The ult change will have a serious - even if small - impact on his teamfights. He's already capable of dashing, shielding, stunning, and nuking within 1200 units at a moment's notice with someone else's suspension. Increasing its range will not make him healthier one bit, and it isn't the right direction if he even does need buffs. The shield change is at most a difference of 30 when he's Lv 3+, and it breaks even at Lv 10. This means shit, and only serves to make his later game ults even stronger. [He is prominent in the LCS.](http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/stats.php?id=111&season=ALL&tournament=ALL) [In the most recent tournaments, he's still been picked and banned.](http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/stats.php?id=111&season=S7) Yasuo isn't bad at all top-lane, so it's mostly picks like Camille, Galio, and Maokai keeping him out of meta - and both Galio and Maokai just took serious nerfs.
Engelin (NA)
: He's got a 50-51% winrate in every elo except diamond-challenger, where the only people who play him are Yas mains lol I'd say he's pretty balanced rn and doesn't need buffs or nerfs. The same could be said about Vayne, whose changes on the PBE were reverted. This is what test servers are for. _To test things_
Except that's historically not what the PBE is actually for. The great majority of changes that make it there from internal testing are pushed to live anyways, sometimes ignoring unanimous feedback or even obvious bugs.
: Ah, just want to chime in quick, but the initial pull on surrender@20 didn't include a line to his passive where we're changing the shield scaling on his passive to 100-510>>>60-555
I wish this was enough, but 30 - 20 less shield during his laning phase will still mean nothing compared to his mid-game spike - which will only get worse with that longer ult range.
  Rioter Comments
: ######Cough. Sivir. cough.
Chinese Sivir splashes aren't bad at all, what are you talking about? [Longhorn Alistar](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Alistar_LonghornSkin_Ch.jpg), [Little Knight Amumu](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Amumu_LittleKnightSkin_Ch.jpg), [Original Gragas](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Gragas_OriginalSkin_Ch.jpg), [Karthus Statue](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Karthus_StatueofSkin_Ch.jpg), are all much worse by comparison, and they don't even come close to something like [Rocketeer Tristana](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/File:Tristana_RocketeerSkin_Ch.jpg).
: {{item:3194}} "needs" those stats, it's not bought for some stupid reason, but it completely nullifies half the AP champions.
Um. No it doesn't. Only select few mages rely on multi-part or low enough CD spells that they're even affected, most of which are out of meta for entirely different reasons.
: Has anyone one ever seen Cassiopia late game carry like a Yas/Vayne/Draven/Kog'mow?
Statistically, yes. But practically? A sharp minority of her games actually reach that stage, and she could be very easily shut down compared to other hypercarries.
SnowFall (NA)
: There's no HP+MR finished item without CDR
This is because MR is simply less efficient as a stat compared to armor or health. Almost all environmental damage from the map is physical except for Baron and Fountain, and even the champion pool and meta leans toward physical damage. You can make an item devoted solely to armor (Thornmail) while an MR item of similar design would become too niche to be really viable - i.e. Adaptive Helm is supposed to be that item, but it still needs other stats to make it viable.
tieger05 (OCE)
: Why is rabadons never built?
Rabadon's has a pain-in-the-ass recipe with a massive combine cost. If you want damage, building Void Staff is significantly easier and arguably better, and Luden's is still a better choice after that.
: You must have not seen the full set of changes : Howling Gale (Q) : cooldown increased from 14/13/12/11/10 to 17/16/15/14/13. Zephyr (W) : - Damage lowered from 60/115/170/225/280 to 60/105/150/195/240. - Mana cost lowered from 40/50/60/70/80 to 0 at all ranks. - [New Effect] "Damaging a champion with Zephyr restores mana and reduces Janna's cooldowns" -->Mana Restore: 40/50/60/70/80 mana -->Cooldown reduction: 2 seconds Eye of the Storm (E) : - Mana cost increased from 70/80/90/100/110 to 90/100/110/120/130. - Cooldown increased from 10 seconds to 13 seconds. This makes it so she can't have her Q and E up as fast as she does now without putting herself in danger (close) to an enemy champion. - This does reward her for being aggressive. - This is a nerf to her shield CD (in general, with 45% CDR it's a tiny buff when you use W). - This is an overall nerf (which it is meant to be), but a much bigger nerf to players who won't utilize her W.
There's nothing saying the CD reduction only affects her basic abilities, so you have to take into account the effect on her ult CD. It also says nothing about it not affecting Zephyr itself, so if it does actually reduce its own CD, it'll for certain become a net buff - especially to her late game.
Buffy (NA)
: The PBE Janna Changes Make No Sense
They do make sense if you think about it. The CD increases and [E] Eye of the Storm mana increase is supposed to be counteracted by [W] Zephyr's flat 2 second CD reduction for her abilities and its substantial mana restore. (I'm assuming the CD reduction doesn't affect Zephyr itself) It's supposed to punish Janna for playing too passively and reward her more for using her Zephyr. Thus the net nerf would a 1 or 3 second increase on [Q] and [E], depending on if she uses Zephyr. The big problem here is that this can only buff her mana pool, and it can decrease the CD on her ult by up to 20%, _making these changes a net buff._ If these go through without serious revision, Janna will only get stronger.
: I am more concerned about the fact that more target agnostic damage means she can go tanky while doing the same amount of damage anyway - with the added bonus of not being killable.
{{champion:67}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3026}}
: Vayne is getting more true damage and heal on R
> For months now riot, months you tried to bring back tank meta, with items updates and so... What? No they haven't.
: ornn has damage scaling with resists
It's only his [E] Searing Charge: > Ornn charges, dealing 20/40/60/80/100 (+ 40% armor)(+ 40% mr) physical damage to enemies hit. > If Ornn rams into terrain, the resulting shockwave will deal 40/80/120/160/200 (+40% armor)(+40% mr) physical damage and knock up enemies for 1 second. And the base damage on that is shit considering you're more than likely going to level it last.
: it doesn't meet the requirement of 3 honors, you can't honor yourself, you answered your own question
It never said "3 honors" was the requirement, just "a majority of your teammates".
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