Áery (NA)
: Hashinshin actually spitting some facts
logged in just to upvote this. dude can be whiny but he does have perfect points imo, I say riot should listen to the dude and fix their game, I used to be able to binge it for 6-7 hours at a time now I can barely manage 2 games in a row because of pretty much what he said.
: "You're just mad because botlane has diversity now. Shut up, ADC mains." Ft. Caitlyn
I understand your point but honestly whenever cait is weak I get happy. that 650 auto range is cancer as hell to play against, her whole kit is fine its just being able to be autod from fountain to fountain is obnoxious (half sarcasm)
Ñaofumi (NA)
: easiest: {{champion:86}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:32}} hardest: {{champion:112}}{{champion:238}} {{champion:429}} easiest to win with(personal experience) {{champion:99}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:34}} hardest to win with {{champion:268}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:6}}
I agree except rengar, replace him with khazix and you've got a good list
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: >Riot has methods, they've done it before. Name an instance where they have banned someone and kept them out of the game permanently. Remember Tyler1? They made his "indefinite" suspension very public but he still plays League. It is impossible to keep someone permanently banned from playing this game, no matter what you try to do. >Not going to tell you since you're clearly familiar enough with computers to try to create a workaround. Translation: "Not going to admit that it's impossible to do because you're smart enough to know that it can't be done" >Although the thought of you wasting time on that is pretty funny to think about. Oh yes, a great deal of thought went into my scenario. It took me all of 30 seconds to write that post... it's the 21st century, it's pretty easy to evade, thwart or otherwise bypass a "permanent" ban.
I lost brain cells reading this Don't be a cocky asshole dude it's just not ever necessary
: Hey everyone, I do want to start this response with acknowledging a couple of things. WE do read these posts, we do think about it and we do talk about them with each other. It can take some time for us to gather what we want to say about each topic which is why it may feel like we are silent, sometimes. There are many ways a single response can be taken, so we like to have everything in line before we talk so that we can communicate our intentions clearly. Rengar is clearly on a lot of people's minds right now. PLEASE do not think you are throwing feedback down an abyss. Please do not think we are ignoring players about Rengar. We are not, as we do love this game and are players as well. While we don't have any plans to touch Rengar currently I want to stress that these conversations between players can help us build ideas in the future. So thank you for taking the time to respond and make posts about things that you care about. -Ranger XIV
Hey man thank you for replying to this, and thank you for making it feel like I'm not throwing ideas into an abyss! I read all of your comments and it's awesome to finally have interaction with a Rioter! Always been a dream of mine to work for Riot so having any ideas recognized and recieved by the community is awesome, and to have actual response and communication with a Rioter is even better. (Even if it wasn't me doing the talking :p) On a side note, if you've seen and read my 2 concept posts on the Rengar changes, what do you think? I love any kind of feedback because this kind of character creation thing is one of my favorite parts about games in general. Thanks for not being a robot and hitting us with a Q: Good Meme, genuine responses are almost hard to come by nowadays.
Rioter Comments
: wtf is this rengar hype suddenly
I have no idea honestly, I made a post, and it got waaaay more popular than I thought it would, then tons more started showing up.
LankPants (OCE)
: >Nobody likes the new Rengar, Neither the players nor the Rengar mains. I'd far prefer to play VS new Rengar than old Rengar. His ult now actually feels reasonable to play around and his burst actually has some counterplay now rather than you just dying in 0.02 seconds the second he jumps on you. I know I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this since the Rengar mains are out in force right now, but it's just the truth. From the perspective of playing against him new Rengar is far better than old Rengar.
If we had rengar uli with the old stack return, but its current state, with old rengars kit I'd be happy.
: These upvoted Rengar threads are probably coming from someone linking all the Rengar threads on the Rengarmains subreddit.
i wrote the most popular one, and I can honestly say I've ever been to that subreddit, and tbh I rarely eve go on reddit in general. I just wanted to express my opinions and ideas.
: Except people don't want old rengar back. Read carefully and you'll see that's not what rengar mains want. Same with lb. Maybe most of the community seems like a hive mind because they don't read very carefully. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/UnsP4Z7r-we-want-rengar-changedfixed-but-we-havnt-given-many-structured-posts-on-how-lets-start https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/aszKidB2-psa-we-rengarmains-actually-do-not-care-about-oneshotting https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/q3scZE41-thoughts-on-rengar-revert Read them carefully, not one is asking for just a plain revert.
Don't know why people are downvoting this, it's a really good point.
: They have probably gone silent because of the community reaction on the boards. Right now it seems like a witch hunt rather than a "let's fix Rengar" thing at the current moment in time. People want the old kit instead of trying to find a compromise between his new kit and hit old kit. In other words... if you want them to respond, you'll either have to give it time, or figure out a way to calm the community down a bit. It's like taking a lollipop from a baby, they'll cry for a while then calm down when they get tired. If you want them to listen to a Rengar rework, then please, consider the following: His Q, if possible, should not be an auto attack enhancer. This is too reliable on a champion with an ult that lets them leap on their target from further than a ranged basic attack can handle, as well as just being able to do this from bushes. His old Q was too hard to balance. It gave too little room for his enemies to fight and too much for the Rengar. If possible, it should *not* be returned, because of these reasons. It probably tied down Rengar's power budget a little too much as a result. His new Q, however, suffers from other problems. It solved the whole "no counter for opponents" thing because he had to already be next to his foes, but it feels... off, all around, from what I'm hearing. Clunky and just not fitting with Rengar himself. So in other words, you need to think of a Q that is not only smooth and easy to use, but also something an enemy can play around besides "stay X units away from Rengar or pain ensues." His W... I don't know the direction it should go, whether proactive or reactive. Both seem to have their own issues, so that is probably for those more qualified than me to say. His E is stated to be fine, so we can leave that. No need to fix something that doesn't need fixing. And finally, his Ult. His R. The infamous "I'm going to kill you and there is almost nothing you can do to stop me" ability. Time and time again, this ult has proved to be far too problematic. So what I suggest is simple; change it entirely. It's clear that the ult, regardless of what it gives, will be a problem just because of the nature of how it works. If Rengar is ahead, you can't stop him unless you are a one main CC chaining master. If he's behind, it does nothing to help him. So why not make it more interesting instead of "stealth and see everything"? Make it so that Rengar has to interact with his surroundings. Like Rengar can leap from bush to bush around the map (not globally of course), or make it so that Rengar can track his foes. Simply revealing and giving an indicator doesn't seem to be cutting it balance wise. No, I'm not a Rengar main. I have played him in all his forms, and quite frankly, it's beginning to become overly obvious that Riot wants to avoid certain designs for Rengar, and players simply want a revert because of *other reasons*. Find a middle ground and work from there. His old kit won't cut it, but that doesn't mean you have to scrap everything.
My entire post was a concept on how to reach a compromise between the two. I didn't treat like a witch hunt, and all the comments are people asking for a response from riot.
archerno1 (EUNE)
: Did they ask for players advice on reworking rengar?
Being a game company that talks so much to their playerbase, that's kinda a given
: PSA: We Rengarmains actually DO NOT care about oneshotting
It's sad to see everybody reverting to the age old arguement "You guys just want to see the one shots" No tf we don't lmao
  Rioter Comments
Kadius (OCE)
: Rengar is a soft spot for me. I loved old Rengar, more than any other champion. When I was levelling to 30 I bought him on sale for RP towards the start of season 5 and headed into a bot game with him. As a new player, bot games are pretty hard. You guys remember the first time you did well in a bot game and thought you were top shit? That was me with Rengar. I had so much fun that game, more than I'd ever had. I became pretty obsessed to be honest, but it was a phase, maybe like a week or so, and ended up quitting Rengar for quite a while. Sure I played him here and there, but I never really played him in ranked and if I did I would feed and lose. This was, obviously, back when I was bronze. Towards the start of season 6, the pre-season specifically, I decided I was going to spam 1 champion in each role until I got out of bronze. That was Yasuo top/mid and Rengar jungle. I got jg most games as my primary and spammed the shit out of Rengar. I would watch countless Dekar streams, countless Chaosrain videos about pathing, ganking, mechanics etc. and was starting to notice my ability on Rengar skyrocketing. I can safely say Rengar is the 1 champion I played in bronze that let me carry the elo hell. Why? Because I poured my heart and soul into him and was genuinly playing him exactly like Diamond+ junglers do thanks to me doing so much research. And then I hit silver. I climbed a bit more but ended up stopping at Silver 2. I finished my year with ~60% winrate on Rengar and almost 60 games. Then they reworked him. I loved it at first, something about being able to jump on someone, press E mid air, the press Q regardless of how tanky they were and oneshot them I found fun. Except I didnt enjoy Rengar, I was enjoying playing something because it was broken. Then they nerfed him, and rightly so, the only way to balance Rengar's current kit it to make him deal liittle damage unless he builds full AD, which I can safely say Rengar is kinda doing right now. Course, he still oneshots people as a bruiser but only with his stupid ult crit. My Rengar winrate this season went from 96% over 15 games to about 50% over 30% over 50. It's slowly declined as the nerfs have hit him over and over. His clearspeeds, slower and slower, his burst, slower and slower, he went form S+ tier to bottom of the barrel over the period of about 7 patches. I suppose that's what happens when you have a Diamond ADC main in charge of an assassin rework. I have since stopped playign ranked, sitting at Silver 2 still and have failed Gold promos twice due to AFks and int feeders (not even me complaining, I had the worst luck lmao, but life goes on). I would consiider myself an "okay player" with the ability to climb but I lack the motivation to do so. Why? I simply don't enjoy the game as much as I used to. I used to be the player in our stack who would always have jungle/top reserved for them and their Rengar so they could pop-off and dominate every game. Why? His kit flowed in my mind, Stealth, mobility, burst, outplay potential, mind-games and of course a deceptively high (and I mean VERY HIGH) mechanical ceiling. getting your Q cancels on Rengar to be frame-perfect is somethign I still can safely say I have not mastered. Learning to hit every E, time every W to absorb maximum damage is crucial in 1v1 fights. Yet, I dont feel new Rengar is the same. Instead of being a champion I feel potential in and want to try and master, he's a champion I feel lags behind, thinking "gosh I probably couldve gotten that kill but my champ doesnt do enough". Instead of me thinking I need to get better to become the best Rengar I can be, I think "I should probably play a more flexible jungler, Rengar is too simple". Rengar is the champion that got me into your game, Riot, and now he's the champion that's driving me away from it. Please, revert the kitty. I love League of Legends, and we all make mistakes... sometimes it's okay to admit you were wrong. Love, Kadius. tl;dr Picked up Rango when I was new and thought he was pretty cool. New Rengar sux and is making me go play korean MMORPGs. Send help.
THIS, FUCKING THIS YOU WORDED MY THOUGHTS PERFECTLY I only wanted to put the concept down to have a little less personal feeling go towards it, but this is my exact story. I was like lvl 15, and a rengar carried me, and I hadn't even seen him in the shop yet so I was so curious on who this badass white lion was, so I saved up ip and bought him. I didn't understand him, at all. But after enough games of me saying "This is by far my favorite champion, I will get good as him" I finally figured him out, and mained him. I've always been one to jump around on champs, always playing something new, but Rengar was the only champion I always went back to, and I loved every second of it. After the rework, having my favorite champ destroyed was soul breaking tbh, like my life isn't affected but League, instead of being the fun amazing game it was for the past year and a half ive been playing, it's now something i can't break away from, but I'm having less and less fun. I played rengar again recently and it was really nice to see the burst I know and love but it didn't feel satisfying, it felt cheesy. If I hadn't been in game with friends, I would've felt like it was a waste of time. If you weren't OCE I'd add you so we could play </3 :(
: You know you messed up on a rework when old Rengar is favored on LOLBoards.
Heyo it's me, I wrote the article you linked! I honestly didn't expect it to become as wildly popular as it is right now, but thank you for the Link! I miss the Q ;-;
: ***
Except that nothing about Rengar was point and click, he was an auto attack champion, and his only cc was a slow-ish skillshot.
: Jokes on you I already did that ages ago: http://www.strawpoll.me/11813089/r Who would have guessed the results.
Yeah:( Riot needs to listen even more. They started listening more but it needs to be 10x more.
: The zoning comes from the indicator mechanic where he is only able to see the closest person, but it's also that function that serves as a limiter to prevent him from diving down on backlines or even finding those backlines. Malz ulti at 6 with 60 AP deals 125 AP + 115% AP + 2% of targets max health per second. Ulti duration is 2,5 Which champ did you play=? Well i´ll use an average. Thus with 50 AP at 6 a full ulti deals : 125 + (1,15 x 60=69) + (820 x 0,02 x 2,5=41) = 125+69+41 =235 =full ulti damage. Before resistance, with around 50 mr you'd have 40% magic damage reduction. 235 x 0,6 =141. ignite a t 6 deals 170. 311 damage from ulti+ignite. You claim to to have died instantly? I dare say you'd die from anything at that point with so little health left. And Rengar's E is huge, compared to elise's cocoon it's about 1,5 times larger in hitbox., against a immoible champ this was a surefire death sentence and it's one of the main reasons ferocity was reworked. And he snowballs a lot harder than elise too. Countered by wards? That argument goes around a lot against a number of junglers and yet the people using said argument always wind up disappointed when their favorite winds up dumpstered after Riot confirmed that the champ was OP and nothing else. I´d expect Zac to encounter that fate sooner or later as things are looking now, and yet many of his current playerbase aruge that he's "countered by good wards". That argument, i don't hold any faith in, at all. You clearly conveniently forget important parts of your arguments, painting a picture you´d like to see but the reality i have before me looks quite different. I´d recommend you get your math straight first of all, because you clearly don't know how to count which kills the idea of having a numbers based discussion with you. And the fact that you conveniently omnit parts of events that don't suit you also makes you a bit hard to believe in. Your idea to argue using malz was fine right up until you started bullshiting about his capabilities infront of someone who actually plays the champ.
I forget to mention he used the rest of his kit as well, my b man. Also you didn't factor in deathfire touch damage with the little difference it makes. I don't remember who I was playing a play a lot of champs Wards did counter him in a way, I'm not gonna bullshit my way past anything, but if a champ is invisible, and someone put a pink ward, you had a lot less power because they can see you coming, same reason why pink wards countered shaco or akali. Rengars snare was too wide, that's true, but it was a trade off for less damage when you ganked.
GigaPube (OCE)
: clunky = purposely implemented ability cast time. i thought we cleared this up last year. if i hadnt seen this i wouldnt have noticed how bad the post is in general. sure its a lot of words and decent suggestions, but its not thought out very well and you dont seem to be the right person to be able to discuss gameplay balance and champion design > Current Q is ass, lets face it, Old Q is superior in every way, and a core part of the kit i dont like either Q's but how is a shitty autoattack reset "superior in every way" AND "a core part of his kit". and you state it like its not even your opinion. well im also gonna state as a fact that your opinion is as flatout wrong as your judgement. people like your post because its a bunch of words that criticize rengar who everyone has been 1-shotted by so they naturally think "oh yeah this guy probably knows what hes talking about, surely some commoner like me who isnt a disgusting shill for rito knows how to balance a champion more than those evil scumbags trying to kill the game" > W is way too strong, a free massive heal and a cleanse? Hello? Rito? Besides, with the passive revert, AP Rengar players have a home again the cleanse isnt a bad idea but it works too well for rengar, especially when its not someone like an olaf who NEEDS ghost and speedups to actually get onto his enemies. no idea why you're mentioning a troll build in a supposedly serious post > E is fine, live love rengar E thematically you're right. but this is where you lack the capacity for imagination. E is not fine. E is a simple linear skillshot with damage and a slow/root. of all the countless possibilities an ability could be, stopping at a slowing/rooting skillshot is pitiful to where one of the most popular games on the planet should be headed gameplay wise. it doesnt even have to be as versatile as khazix's projectile/s, any small change would be fine over that bland crap
I'm not trying to be imaginative here, I just want old Rengar back the way he was, but that is far less likely to happen so i just mashed the two version together in as balanced of a way as I could, and everybody agrees that new Q looks cooler, but is so much less fun to use. The W Cleanse of slows is my first idea to keep current W while shifting power. And for the record, I don't know what I'm talking about, I just want knife cat back and this was my best idea. Honestly though thank you for the criticism, I looked at everything again, but I'm happy with how it looks. And AP Rengar was a lot of fun, I just threw it in there bc i felt it deserved a spot.
Echoing (NA)
: [CCOS] June CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
I'm not good with coming up with lore, or even super fair balance kits, I made an attempt with a Rengar reversion of a sort and i think its super solid BUT Thats not what I'm here for. I have one single concept and i want to see somebody do something with it. A champion who has like a bullwhip or something, kinda like an abyssal whip from RS. I kinda wanna figure out how to get an auto attack mechanic, like a windup, the longer you hold the auto the more damage it does. Hold Right click for 3 seconds and get 200% damage or something, but right click only once and you get 75% damage. Thoughts?
99 Reborn (EUW)
: Never thought I would say this but, I would like him reverted. I play mainly squishies, but the fact that the old Rengar was able to be blown up after killing me was OK. This psuedo tanking is NOT.
The biggest thing about Rengar was one shotting a squishy, which plenty of mages do just as well, but mages stayed safe when doing it. Rengar had his risks, and I would die countless times after serving my purpose. The healing from w could pretty much be removed too, or at least only on the empowered w.
: A montage of monsterously fed rengar's oneshotting won't impress me much, i´d take a second look if someone survived though. Current Rengar is the same as any assassin, feed them like hell and he will become a monster, but you can not feed him too. That wasn't quite an option before when he had the ability to ulti and then jump 2 seconds later with hardly any indication, or the tripple auto reset or double Q. Or when he went around carrying a 2 seconds snare into lane. Or the complete invisibility when ulting which allowed him to reach enemy backline with 0 counterplay available x) But its true that he was really strong still, even after reworks. Which is why he was thus nerfed really, really hard and here we are.
The invisiblity mechanics change solves those problems though, no more ult and zone, youd know where he is. Damage is not a question here, i played against a malzahar with a 2 dorans rings and he ulted me then ignited and i died instantly, I had MR runes too. Feed a champ and they'll do damage. Rengar's 2 sec snare wasn't a problem, because it was a skillshot very similar to elise cocoon, you can miss it, and the difference is that if Rengar uses the snare, he loses q damage, or w, and if he misses it they escape. And old rengar was countered by wards, good ward placement and you'd know exactly where he was.
: no one really liked to play against old rengar, but his old kit would be much easier to balance than his current one
As someone who has played current and old Rengar, would you rather have a champ who A: Sucks to play against, but is fun as hell to play (like yasuo or every basic tank that 100-0's you with a triforce and full tank) or B: Sucks to play against, sucks more to play, and has probably less than half the original playerbase.
Outclαss (EUNE)
: Just revert this abomination already. Even though he is stronger than pre rework rengar, being able to kill their adc and still survive, i dislike the clunkiness of his kit. Also, they lowered rengar's skill floor so much that you can't diferentiate the good players from the bad ones anymore. Before rework you had to be ahead, manage your ferocity and time your combo perfectly to kill an adc (q leap e w hydra mid air), now all you need to do is build bruiser and right click. If you don't believe me, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLehtecT7kc Look at that fake laugh and sudden realisation that they fucked up this champion so hard. I'm waiting for some changes, you can't ignore us forever.
They are fully aware its not okay lol but they pushed it out anyways
: going back to his old unhealthy low counterplay kit is not a good direction. and fuck crit builds on assassins. you have your own items now. making rengar better with assassin items, that I can support. but not going back to crit 1 shot days
There are 6 item slots, and only 3 "Assassin" items that are used just as much by other roles too.
: It's just sad how long Riot Games keep dragging this out. It's so obvious they fucked up with the Rengar rework. Just revert him already.
Riot did exactly what they said they wouldn't, and there are plenty of champs that are a bigger problem than old rengar was. I say give the problem champions and give the Rengar playerbase their kitty back
Rioter Comments
: I wish you the best. I have been hoping for 2 years they would revert the derpy Garen update on his art/graphics. Not gonna happen, even with his terrible splash and rant rant rant.
They did it for Kog Maw and it worked and made the game healthier, and it would be ten times more healthy to revert Rengar so let's hope :D
Rioter Comments

Fat Erection

Level 85 (NA)
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