Xphineas (NA)
: The report system makes sense. One report flags a game, if you didnt do anything wrong (I.e. you didnt call people idiots, or just be toxic in general) then nothing happens, but if you call someone a "fucking r%%%%%" then you get a punishment. Context DOESN'T matter. You shouldn't be toxic, riot implemented many ways to mute people(s), be it /mute all. Clicking the mute button. Turning off allied and all chat. Usually the system mutes after multiple instances of toxicity (unless you call someone like "fucking ni***r" or the like).
> [{quoted}](name=Xphineas,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8BeuP8U7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-07T17:40:58.942+0000) > > The report system makes sense. One report flags a game, if you didnt do anything wrong (I.e. you didnt call people idiots, or just be toxic in general) then nothing happens, but if you call someone a "fucking r%%%%%" then you get a punishment. Context DOESN'T matter. You shouldn't be toxic, riot implemented many ways to mute people(s), be it /mute all. Clicking the mute button. Turning off allied and all chat. Usually the system mutes after multiple instances of toxicity (unless you call someone like "fucking ni***r" or the like). Context DOES matter though. And It's clear you didn't read the entire post properly. Please reread all of it and come back to discuss because I pointed out that argument and why its an issue to make it as an excuse for the system to be the way it is.
: The intended users for Aftershock are tanks whose primary job is CC. Resistance values and damage, both scaling with tank stats to give an engaging tank an edge. Practically all of these tanks are melee, the only exception being Thresh who oh so definitely does not need Aftershock to be successful. Unfortunately, they gave it bullshit base values and capped the resistance scaling values, so anyone and their mother who can immobilize a champion gets oodles and noodles and toaster strudels of free tankiness and damage. The ranged mages like Lissandra and Aurelion Sol that benefit from Aftershock already have RoA, Liandry's Torment, Zhonya's, and Banshee's Veil, and should be handled individually if restricting Aftershock to melee affects them at all. Lux support only builds Zhonya's out of any of these, is definitely not in need of buffs, and is dragging down the potential for tanks to benefit from Aftershock.
> [{quoted}](name=FantasySniper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8d2ARl6a,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T14:44:39.399+0000) > > The intended users for Aftershock are tanks whose primary job is CC. Resistance values and damage, both scaling with tank stats to give an engaging tank an edge. Practically all of these tanks are melee, the only exception being Thresh who oh so definitely does not need Aftershock to be successful. > > Unfortunately, they gave it bullshit base values and capped the resistance scaling values, so anyone and their mother who can immobilize a champion gets oodles and noodles and toaster strudels of free tankiness and damage. > > The ranged mages like Lissandra and Aurelion Sol that benefit from Aftershock already have RoA, Liandry's Torment, Zhonya's, and Banshee's Veil, and should be handled individually if restricting Aftershock to melee affects them at all. Lux support only builds Zhonya's out of any of these, is definitely not in need of buffs, and is dragging down the potential for tanks to benefit from Aftershock. *laughs in Pyke*
: The Reporting system is flawed and easily abusable (and frankly so are its advocates)
Oh I want to also point out... You can be reported by someone completely unrelated to the argument. At first that sounds fine but it's really stupid because this means that someone being offended by something you didn't even say to them... you can be punished for. Anyway thats all I have to say.
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Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Lonesome Drifter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7cecXt9s,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2019-07-05T08:23:57.830+0000) > > Please tell me you were being ironic when saying this... > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} Huh? That's usually how cases like that work these days. People are quick to abandon the accused and it ruins their lives forever if they're innocent. _Like with Vic_, or my high school men's basketball coach/math teacher. People want to bail so fast on support for the accused that they jump the gun a lot of the time without proper evidence. That's as far as I'm going into this.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7cecXt9s,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2019-07-05T08:29:52.245+0000) > > Huh? That's usually how cases like that work these days. People are quick to abandon the accused and it ruins their lives forever if they're innocent. > > _Like with Vic_, or my high school men's basketball coach/math teacher. > > People want to bail so fast on support for the accused that they jump the gun a lot of the time without proper evidence. > > That's as far as I'm going into this. No I meant please tell me you weren't saying you support the idea. My bad lmfao
: Guilty until proven innocent in the 21st century btw.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7cecXt9s,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-04T21:12:27.803+0000) > > Guilty until proven innocent in the 21st century btw. Please tell me you were being ironic when saying this... {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: > [{quoted}](name=ThatShinyPiplup,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7cecXt9s,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-04T19:15:24.257+0000) > > ????? Vic Mignonia (spelling) was accused of harassing fans because of some conflict with a coworker. Needless to say, the KickVic movement has been using many lies and fabricated evidence in their attempts to completely ruin him. Which is sad because the accusations themselves had already cost the man his job at Rooster Teeth (voiced Qrow) and Funimation.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7cecXt9s,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-04T19:22:17.886+0000) > > Vic Mignonia (spelling) was accused of harassing fans because of some conflict with a coworker. > > Needless to say, the KickVic movement has been using many lies and fabricated evidence in their attempts to completely ruin him. Which is sad because the accusations themselves had already cost the man his job at Rooster Teeth (voiced Qrow) and Funimation. Damn you are everywhere. Do you even play league lmfao?
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lonesome Drifter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-07-05T08:06:20.903+0000) > > Again, Someone completely misrepresenting my statement. > > I was pointing out RIOTS actions... not the characters alone. I never claimed her voice lines were in your face. > > If were bringing up Xayah and Rakan (literally the only fucking example in game that really legit exists as in your face but hey Ill play your stupid game) then yeah. It's cringe as fucking hell. Rakan is the only enjoyable character and its when hes away from Xayah and actually says cool and fun shit. But their romance isn't just romance. Theyre a duo trying to fight against the oppression of their people. Not just like "oh hey were lovers and thats it." > For GOD sakes their CINEMATIC WAS THEM FIGHTING ZED! > > I still hate them as a duo. That hasn't ever changed. But you trying to use "Muh straightness" as an argument is lame. Do you somehow miss just how sexual a character like Illaoi is? One of her quote literally involves her openly flirting with Braum, I guess everyone just forgot that; but I guess Neeko low-key flirting with Nid needs ALL the attention.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2019-07-05T08:08:06.009+0000) > > Do you somehow miss just how sexual a character like Illaoi is? One of her quote literally involves her openly flirting with Braum, I guess everyone just forgot that; but I guess Neeko low-key flirting with Nid needs ALL the attention. AGAIN, MISREPRESENTING MY ENTIRE FUCKING POINT! Illaoi is a developed character with connections to multiple people. She actually is the only person in her Religion and her position of power to genuinely give a shit about protecting the lives of bilgewater and believes that there are good and strong hearted people there. She has development and her interest in Braum makes sense because BRAUM IS A GOOD HEARTED PERSON UNLIKE GANGPLANK WHO SHOULD HAD A FUCKING ROMANCE WITH PRIOR. LIKE HOLY HELL THE ROMANCE ISNT THE ISSUE! Why are you all so determined to misrepresent my entire post???
: Garen and Lux have sex with each other. Leona and Mantheon do too. Evelynn has sex with Zilean.
> [{quoted}](name=AllenPCarlson,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-07-05T08:03:34.696+0000) > > Garen and Lux have sex with each other. Leona and Mantheon do too. Evelynn has sex with Zilean. Look here, sir
SEKAI (OCE)
: > I think a big issue with "LGBT Representation characters" is that... well... It's so poorly handled. Rather than the character be completely normal and just so happens to be gay... they're outright designed as "OMFG THEYRE GAY LOOK AT THAT!" Do you complain about straight characters flaunting their straightness? Because if you do, you might be interested to find out there is a whole literature genre that does nothing but just that. It's called the "romance" genre. With that in mind, what makes being gay or whatever so special that it needs to be super discreet and """well handled""" which is basically just keep it in a slightly different shadow than before? It's like "yeah we won't prosecute you guys for being gay now, but you are still best kept in the shades and best if no one can see you". Also, there is nothing in-your-face about Neeko. All people did was digging out like 5 out of her 5 million interactions, and most of which is just her being super clingy to other female characters (**), and then bitch about how """in-your-face""" it is. You see, that is precisely where the actual problem is. ........... EDIT(**): Clinging to each other isn't even exclusively a lesbian thing, given girls are often raised in the environment where they can be super clingy to one another. Just today on the train there were 2 girls who were super on top of each other. Are they a couple? No, they are both straight as fuck and they giggled for 10 mins when they saw a guy and his buddies they knew was on the same train (needless to say, they don't give a shit about me who sat literally just behind them and was there before them. I've already accepted that fate). Because what a shocker, girls often touch each other without sexual implications (boys in the 70-80s did that as well, until any touching other than the shoulders and arms became a gay taboo or something).
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-07-05T08:00:21.324+0000) > > Do you complain about straight characters flaunting their straightness? > > Because if you do, you might be interested to find out there is a whole literature genre that does nothing but just that. It's called the "romance" genre. > > With that in mind, what makes being gay or whatever so special that it needs to be super discreet and """well handled""" which is basically just keep it int a different shadow than before? > > Also, there is nothing in-your-face about Neeko. All people did was digging out like 5 out of her 5 million interactions and then bitch about how """in-your-face""" it is. > > You see, that is precisely where the actual problem is. Again, Someone completely misrepresenting my statement. I was pointing out RIOTS actions... not the characters alone. I never claimed her voice lines were in your face. If were bringing up Xayah and Rakan (literally the only fucking example in game that really legit exists as in your face but hey Ill play your stupid game) then yeah. It's cringe as fucking hell. Rakan is the only enjoyable character and its when hes away from Xayah and actually says cool and fun shit. But their romance isn't just romance. Theyre a duo trying to fight against the oppression of their people. Not just like "oh hey were lovers and thats it." For GOD sakes their CINEMATIC WAS THEM FIGHTING ZED! I still hate them as a duo. That hasn't ever changed. But you trying to use "Muh straightness" as an argument is lame.
: neeko is cute i cant be mad at her for being annoying about her sexuality or something
> [{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-07-05T07:48:46.696+0000) > > neeko is cute i cant be mad at her for being annoying about her sexuality or something Adorable as hell.
: At Neeko's release I recall the board agreeing with your mindset, I wonder what makes it that it doesn't anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Technorch,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-05T07:26:37.106+0000) > > At Neeko's release I recall the board agreeing with your mindset, I wonder what makes it that it doesn't anymore. Because it's cool to misunderstand someone saying "hey guys let's get better gay representation for characters." and make that person the villain lmfao {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
: Neeko is not in your face about it. It's only hinted at in her interactions. People just overreacted to an interaction video that spammed several quotes that aren't actually heard that often ingame. Really silly thing to complain about when there are several other characters in the game with flirty interactions. Also, Diana's core creator actually confirmed her as lesbian. Ez/Taric is the real cringe if only because of tired memes.
> [{quoted}](name=Daddy Issues,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-07-05T07:29:48.476+0000) > > Neeko is not in your face about it. It's only hinted at in her interactions. People just overreacted to an interaction video that spammed several quotes that aren't actually heard that often ingame. Really silly thing to complain about when there are several other characters in the game with flirty interactions. > > Also, Diana's core creator actually confirmed her as lesbian. Ez/Taric is the real cringe if only because of tired memes. That's fan fiction. Taking a character and saying oh theyre lesbian now btw is just retconning for points. I.e. J.K Rowling
: You're right. The sexuality of Varus and Neeko were grossly mishandled. However, the community itself is just as guilty as Riot in both cases. I called out the problem of people celebrating Neeko's orientation. It inflated the importance of her orientation and made the rest of her character irrelevant. Varus' backstory has several problems involving plot and conclusion that make it a terrible story. Yet when I described these problems, I was declared a homophobe even though at no point did I mention that as part of the problem. Diversity is good. Forced diversity is bad. Neeko and Varus felt forced and that is what makes it mishandled by Riot. The community is guilty of defending forced representation, which really only leads to more examples of shitty representation being the norm for minorities and ultimately defeating the purpose of normalization. Stop treating it like something special so we can move on to actual equality.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-07-05T07:36:08.968+0000) > > You're right. The sexuality of Varus and Neeko were grossly mishandled. However, the community itself is just as guilty as Riot in both cases. > > I called out the problem of people celebrating Neeko's orientation. It inflated the importance of her orientation and made the rest of her character irrelevant. > > Varus' backstory has several problems involving plot and conclusion that make it a terrible story. Yet when I described these problems, I was declared a homophobe even though at no point did I mention that as part of the problem. > > Diversity is good. Forced diversity is bad. Neeko and Varus felt forced and that is what makes it mishandled by Riot. The community is guilty of defending forced representation, which really only leads to more examples of shitty representation being the norm for minorities and ultimately defeating the purpose of normalization. Stop treating it like something special so we can move on to actual equality. I think the irony of this situation... Is I'm being argued with on things I barely even said in the first place. I simply said "hey let's get better gay characters that are more like characters and less a generic representation of gay people (The irony of that statement is its not actually my words Im using but a good friend of mine who I duo q a lot with who so happens to be lesbian) and everyone went "ur wrong." Like... what??
: Varus is an ancient, vengeful demon out to exact revenge on those who have wronged him. He literally uses the rage of one of the men inside him to fuel himself. I dont understand how this isnt a deep, involved character. Neeko is the last of an ancient vastyan tribe who has been cast into a world that she is ignorant of and finds fascinating. She is charming and child like in her understanding of the culture that is wildly different from her own, islandic and isolated one. Again, how is this not a deep, meaningful character? Her being a lesbian is completely throw away and only a very tiny part of her. If you're choosing to only look at the "gayness" of these characters as their only traits, that is your problem. That's your inability to read and interpret what is right in front of you.
> [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-05T07:27:05.190+0000) > > Varus is an ancient, vengeful demon out to exact revenge on those who have wronged him. He literally uses the rage of one of the men inside him to fuel himself. I dont understand how this isnt a deep, involved character. > > Neeko is the last of an ancient vastyan tribe who has been cast into a world that she is ignorant of and finds fascinating. She is charming and child like in her understanding of the culture that is wildly different from her own, islandic and isolated one. Again, how is this not a deep, meaningful character? Her being a lesbian is completely throw away and only a very tiny part of her. > > If you're choosing to only look at the "gayness" of these characters as their only traits, that is your problem. That's your inability to read and interpret what is right in front of you. That's not a meaningful character. That's OOOH QUIRKY character design/Angry vengeance character design. Hell LUCIAN (as generic as he can be) has better design towards the vengeance aspect because the entity who did it is in the game. He constantly struggles with allowing himself to remember Sena and embrace those good moments because it makes him feel weaker. Varus is poorly done. Neeko is poorly done.
: "Neeko is so in your face about being lesbian!" *Has maybe 4 special interactions with champions about it and finds guys, quite specifically and literally, stinky* Yeah. Very in your face there, with wanting lunch with Shyvana.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A9EFGFyE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-05T07:20:32.691+0000) > > "Neeko is so in your face about being lesbian!" > > *Has maybe 4 special interactions with champions about it and finds guys, quite specifically and literally, stinky* > > Yeah. Very in your face there, with wanting lunch with Shyvana. Yeah where and when did I say that? Stop making up a fake statement and actually comment on what I truly said.
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Father Cleric

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