Rioter Comments
: This is understandable, but the issue here is that there is no way for us players to see which posts Riot does and does not read, let alone act on. You could all very well be reading literally every thread on Gameplay, and we'd still have no way of knowing, because there is strictly no indication out there when you do so, whether it be on the Boards, in the Dev Corner, or in the patch notes. Whenever a Rioter says that the devs do read the Boards, we can only take them on their word and whichever red post they left on a particular thread, and that's just not good enough. This isn't to say that you don't read the threads or comments in this thread, but if nothing else, it would help to work towards a way of keeping us in the loop when you do read through a thread, even if you do engage. With just the tech at hand, a simple comment like "hey, I've read this thread" could already go a long way. With just a bit more short-term work, some sort of other icon that automatically shows up next to threads visited by a Rioter, with perhaps Rioter name and timestamp, could also help tremendously. If implemented that way, you would not even have to do any extra work to signify to us players that Riot does in fact go through the threads we write, as we'd have more than just assurances with little further acknowledgment anywhere else. On the subject of engagement, though, while it's understandable that the devs may not want to directly interact with an environment that's often quite hostile to them, that still doesn't justify not engaging with players at all. At the end of the day, Riot is a company, and interacting with players is a job that someone has to do in order to maintain positive relations. The lack of engagement has made itself felt, and damaged the way players regard Riot on the Boards, and across the internet in general. Riot engaging with players is a necessity, not a luxury, and if it is being treated as the latter, then nobody has any business praising the game on its communications, even if they were great five years ago. However, because interacting with players on spaces like these is a difficult and time-consuming job, it's also not really fair to put that responsibility on you specifically, or other devs, because you already have a job that takes up a huge amount of time and energy. It might therefore be better to have dedicated Rioters act as direct relays between players and the rest of the company, using their own knowledge of the game and Riot to speak as experts and bring devs in on particularly relevant topics. I know that Riot has stayed away from this due to not wanting to create distance between devs and players, but right now the net result is very much the same, in that devs simply don't have the time to deal adequately with all of the players League has amassed over time. I suggested this to a Rioter in the past (I think it may have been Riot Sparkle), and got a positive response; has there been any internal work on this in the meantime already?
First off, some real talk: If you'd like more engagement, work on communicating concisely. Second: This reply implies that there is value in the simple knowledge that a rioter has seen a post. I think this would actually be more negative, as knowing that someone has read your comment and chosen not to talk or follow up is even worse than not knowing if you're being heard. Third: I agree that it is Riot's duty to understand our players and hear their concerns. I believe that engaging with players has tremendous value. I also believe that every Rioter should chose their ways of engaging that limit the abuse they have to tank and maximize their effective communication. For me, boards does very badly comapred to tumblr, twitter, or even reddit. I'd love to spend more time on boards, but I do so currently with a big hit to my ability to speak with players effectively. Lastly, I don't personally like the idea that we'd have assigned forums folks. I'd much rather we put in the work to get boards much more productive so that more folks have good reason to go on here. Unsurprisingly, I think it's important we get the incentives right, rather than forcing anyone to do something that isn't beneficial to them.
: Not on these boards. All due respect but riot have all but abandoned these parts and assumed that they are nothing but vitriol and negativity and not worth their time.
While the tone of boards is often not great, that just means that it's harder to engage, not to read. Appreciate the post. I know doing something like this represents a lot of time and thought, and this is exactly the sort of post I'd personally love to see more often.
: Suggestion : Inspiration Rune
We didn't want to make runes that would feel like a "support tax," or a thing that a team should expect their main vision contributor to pick. There's also very poor communication of vision radius, because we never change it, so the play against case would be poor without a significant amount of work.
: But they *are* still ignoring it. Fearless just confirmed that. *That* is my point. As long as it still says "*because of x*" it is still valid feedback, toxic or not.
That's actually not true, and you're ignoring things I've said multiple times in this thread. I feel unable to engage and respond in those threads, but I don't ignore they exist, and I train designers on my team to look for the underlying problems players are attempting to express in highly negative threads.
: > [{quoted}](name=Fearless,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=HHBrycot,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-19T01:37:41.230+0000) > > Some of this is the problem that it doesn't take many people wishing that you and your whole family dies in a car crash to make this seem like a less productive use of time. It can also be disheartening to see the **massive upvote **counts on extremely negative posting. > At the very least doesn't that illustrate the gravity of issues with the game currently, that need to be addressed? I realize that those threads don't make for productive conversation, but what is being done to address these issues or are they just overlooked because they are unsightly complaints?
This is my point. On the boards, those posts will have large upvote counts. Similar topics on reddit, twitter, or from in game surveys will be much more positive, and show a much wider spectrum of player feelings. Boards is by far the most negative source of player feedback, and frequently has the most simplistic discussion. This is not true in all cases, but the general trend makes boards one of the least productive places to speak to players.
Kobold (NA)
: I'm a little concerned here by your wording. I am assuming I am reading into this wrong (but it may be true for some). But are you saying that you and others (you may not know if that's true) read some of the boards but when a discussion of frustration is brought up (almost always negative threads) that you then avoid reading it? I am hoping that's not true as frustration with champions and feedback on whats frustrating the playerbase was what was wanted for feedback just a few seasons ago. As has been pointed out positive topics are not usually meant for feedback regarding what is posted in the gameplay section (the issue that many have with lack of responses and acknowledgement/reasoning for feedback there). I feel we are at another ball and gravity generator point in leagues lifespan. When Riot decides to apply more proactive approach to the community they will increase the gravity but applying too much (lots of communication but not on discussions on feedback/unstructured communication) or too late (after change is permanent) will cause the ball (satisfaction with the game) to not be as high or the lack of applying a change will cause the ball to lose height slowly but steadily or rapidly based on the surface (opposing games) in which it hits (is compared too).
The negativity doesn't mean that I don't read it, I most often still do, but I frequently can't respond in any useful way. I always seek to understand player sentiment, but it's much harder to have the productive discussion when the frustrations are vitriolic and generally untargeted.
nerak23 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HalcyonDweller,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=HHBrycot,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-18T22:25:26.393+0000) > > Ish. But that is sort of besides the point. I guess I didn't make this clear, but what I mean by "come to the boards" is "comment on the boards" rather than just lurk. Lots of Rioters lurk on the boards, and don't comment. I'd like to make it so they don't feel like that is their only option. > > I'm trying to show them that we aren't all just looking for witches to burn. Agreed !
Some of this is the problem that it doesn't take many people wishing that you and your whole family dies in a car crash to make this seem like a less productive use of time. It can also be disheartening to see the massive upvote counts on extremely negative posting. I'm very happy to talk about problems that people care about, and I feel very luck that people care so much about the game. I really miss talking on our own boards. I really wish I could find more questions and discussions to jump in.
: You do of course realize, people that don’t come to the boards already will never see this right?
There are a lot of us that read the boards that don't post very often. The biggest problem is that so much of the boards are negative that I don't find points to jump in. If I look at boards and see a bunch of points I can't touch, I tend to go over to Tumblr/Twitter and answer questions over there. I love talking with players, but it's a lot more productive when I can find discussions that are less hyperbolic and more earnest.
MarTEEnus (EUNE)
: No my Face of the Mountain. It was pretty good on Defensive tank supports :/
It was very satisfying, but it has a ton of overlap with other defensive options, most clearly locket. We're not saying we won't look to offer some defensive options in the future, but if and when we do, we'll be giving power that has a bit more uniqueness or interaction to it. FOTM right now is one of the larger contributions to shield stacking problems, and has some of the least interesting build impacts and gameplay.
: Minion Dematerializer rune in the Inspiration tree needs a buff.
We agree that this rune isn't really living up to what we wanted for it, and is kinda letting the slot down. No timeline on improvements, but we are exploring where to go with it.
: > We can, but I don't think we should. We had iterations of nullifying orb that were much more inclusive, and they very quickly became mandatory. This left us with the options of either restricting the Rune to be more situational or remove it. Making a rune situationally mandatory (AD laining against AP) isn't making it a meaningful decision point. All you've done is make one class of champions have access to a tool that shuts down any aggression from another class of champions from champ select. In comparison the stopwatch rune isn't available for 6 minutes so the AP laning against AD can't shut down their gameplan from 0:00. Also, what other platforms are you alluding to that you use to discuss things with players? I assume Reddit, + ... ???
I talk a lot on twitter and tumblr, and respectively.
Dessem (EUW)
: But even when I ask nicely no one wants to talk about Viktor. :'(
Sometimes we just don't have much news about a given champion. We do often have to default to being quiet until we have something real we can discuss. It doesn't feel good from our side, but setting expectations only to crush them later is even worse if an exploration doesn't go well.
Durfain (EUW)
: Can we change nullifying orb to also block physical damage?
We can, but I don't think we should. We had iterations of nullifying orb that were much more inclusive, and they very quickly became mandatory. This left us with the options of either restricting the Rune to be more situational or remove it. I believe it's important for a number of mages to have a way to plan for a lane where the range disparity against other mages is a defining element of the early game, so I would prefer we don't remove the option outright. When we tested weaker general versions of the rune, it stopped being understandable. Shields that pop in reaction to damage tend to get crushed by the incoming damage, and this is especially true at small values. That being said, I know physical assassins are a constant source of consternation on these boards, and we have seen that this is even more pronounced since 7.22 dropped. We always expect balance to be a bit rocky after changes this large, and we're definitely knee deep in the chaotic, unoptimized state right now. You're likely to see some small nudges to individual runes or champions for the next patch or two as we let some of the dust settle. If I could make one small suggestion, there are a number of us watching the boards right now, looking to talk about the state of the game and Runes in general. This can be really hard on gameplay boards because of the exceptionally negative hyperbole that tends to be so prevalent. It doesn't help that dissenting opinions are also frequently downvoted into oblivion (as there are a few examples even in this thread). I personally love to talk to players and do so on a lot of different platforms, but boards is sadly one of the most draining. I figured it might be worth pointing out that we'd really love to talk on here a lot more about Runes, if folks are open to having actual discussions.
: Is it possible to play without masteries?
: While total damage dealt/healing done is certainly a juicier, more satisfying number, if I'm glancing at the rune pane I'm much more likely to care about how much damage/healing I'm going to get _right now_. Can you help me understand why you decided to put the immediately relevant information behind the mouse over?
Some of these cases are our best guesses as to what people wanted to see or would be evaluating. We went back and forth on these a fair bit, and are likely to swap a few after release as we get broader player opinion.
: Hello! I am a guy who really likes to try out really crazy stuff with my runes. whether its a counter jungle focused rune page with EXP runes to maximise my power gain. To taking crit damage runes on hypercarries to see those juicy 1k dmg crits lategame. My main concern are the two above mentioned stats, crit dmg and exp gain. Though exp runes could be problematic for obvious reasons, if they didnt have a specific niche everyone would take them. but that also would have been a problem with old runes, but it was partially alleviated by their huge cost, IP and opportunity. Id still like to see them come back in some form in reference to counterjungling, maybe if you steal a full camp you gain a bit of bonus experience, and tie it into smite somehow or jungle items? And also crit damage, it's sorta here in the form of gathering storm, but crit dmg is online as soon as you get crit chance, while gathering storm takes some time. Id like to see this implemeneted as well though i dont really have any idea how... maybe a new tree would be nice? IM just honestly really really sad that i wont be able to do stuff with these anymore. and of courser theres stuff like hynrid pen runes if i want to play udyr/ekko/akali or someone else with a hybrid build. or even hybrid runes on Shadow Assassin for a little bit of extra dmg. I know you guys wont be able to bring everything over to the new runes, but i just dont want to feel ignored that something i liked to experiment with is gone. maybe new items would help? that's all, thank you :D
Appreciate the feedback. As we broaden the number of runes in the system, we'll hopefully be able to add a few options that cater to the more niche approaches a few innovators like yourself sought after. No idea on the timeline for this sort of stuff, but we do understand that many folks will miss some of the options that aren't represented right now. I appreciate the detail and candor of your post as well. Thanks for taking that time.
: > [{quoted}](name=Fearless,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Vrr0vTuJ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-11-03T22:30:26.326+0000) > > In game, you'll actually have the runes panel that can give you some of the things you are asking for in real time. Adding this level of detail to match history would be a fair bit more data tracking and would be quite a lot UX/UI work to integrate. Ah, my apologies. I thought you were talking about accessible data, not just UI data. I feel having access to that through the API would be extremely valuable, and may have misunderstood the prompt. Sorry!
No, my bad there. I believe that would be a significant add to the data tracking, but I can follow up with folks more knowledgeable than myself to find out. Thanks for the follow-up!
: Having played with runes on the PBE, I would like to say that I find the UI tracker for Eyeball Collector very confusing. It doesn't give me an amount of AP/AD gained like the other runes, it just tells me how many stacks I have.
The thought here is that seeing that you've maxed out is probably the most in the moment thing you could need, and that you can see the stat gains in the hover over and in your stats panel.
: Hey Fearless about certain champs not having super synergistic runes, do you feel this is more of a champion problem or a system problem with the runes
Likely to be cases on both sides. There are some champions that have incredibly specific needs, and they are harder to serve, but there are also Runes spaces where we'd like to provide a few more options.
: One thing that I would find especially useful is the ability to view a breakdown of stats like damage dealt by "damage/healing dealt to who" (with position detection) and by timestamps -- say, at 1 minute increments -- as well as the combination of the two. This would really let us see data on individual match-ups, as well as be able to parse the effects we think our choices are having on the laning phase and, as the game progresses, on the teamfight phase. This seems particularly important for runes that are important in-lane -- it doesn't help me much to see that, say, Veigar's most dominant choice is Gathering Power if I'm up against a Zed and need to see what rune offers me the least damage taken against Zed in particular over the first ten minutes of a game.
In game, you'll actually have the runes panel that can give you some of the things you are asking for in real time. Adding this level of detail to match history would be a fair bit more data tracking and would be quite a lot UX/UI work to integrate.
  Rioter Comments
FusRoDah (EUW)
: Will champions like Vladimir, Hecarim, Veigar, TF, etc. that often used movement speed quintessences be compensated with additional base movement speed?
We have some rune options that they can go after for MS, and I don't think we're targeting any MS changes for launch.
: > [{quoted}](name=Fearless,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AnFieLAy,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-27T18:06:44.659+0000) > We even have a few ideas that currently just fall into "someday" bucket. Insert {{champion:13}} joke here. Seriously tho, don't take away his ult. Please. It's the most fun ability in the game.
New Inspiration Rune - Very Blue: Any blue champions on the enemy team no longer have ultimates.
2xHero (NA)
: I don't know if it has been answered yet, but I have a couple of questions about how Smite interacts with a couple of the new runes. The Perseverance rune in the resolve tree increases bonus and magic resist based on the number of summoner spells on cool down. Will smite trigger if it has one charge and the second charge is on cool down or do both charges need to be down. Also, does chilling smite apply the slowing field from active items on the Glacial Augment rune in the Inspiration tree? I'm going to guess no since chilling smite is still a summoner spell, but it does require an item purchase to use. It might feel pretty cool to special rule that interaction in.
You would need to have 0 charges, and the spell on cooldown for Perseverance. Chilling smite is not an item active, so does not trigger Glacial Augment.
: I wonder if they get paid somehow or something. They totally deserve some kind of a reward for that.
They do have a patreon for people looking to support them.
Zkaiser (NA)
: Does [Revitalize] only work on allies or is self healing and shielding also affected?
Self healing and shielding is also increased.
: Are they part of riot or what? I'm confused...
Nope, they're totally independent, but we tend to blow them up with the amount of change most preseasons. We try to give them a little advance warning and answer any questions when they hit us up. Surrender at 20 is an amazing site for players, and we try to do our part to make their lives easier.
: You could just send them the changelist yourselves. Unless comprising it would take just as long as they would digging up the material.
They tend to be much faster, actually.
Night 25 (EUW)
: There is one little thing I am a bit concerned about. I know you're trying to make Champion Select as quick as possible, but I've had already some troubles when I'm last pick and end up choosing my champion at the very last second while trying to coordinate with my team, but then the time left to choose and modify masteries is quite short. This can sometimes be troublesome for the last pick in the current system, when it's easy to get 20 mastery pages, but then what happens when I have only 4-6 rune pages and will most likely need to make several adjustments to my masteries in those few seconds?
We haven't done all of our timing adjustments to champ select yet, and we've been watching this time window for exactly this issue. Appreciate the feedback!
Solideus (EUNE)
: "Perfect Timing" is pretty much entirely catered towards mages and marksmen that pick up Hourglass/GA now. Are you entirely okay with that, or may you consider adding an upgrade that could appeal to tanks or supports or something?
We've experimented with other items getting a stopwatch in their build path, but we are ok with some classes being more excited about this option than others.
: I love the idea of an evil twin for inspiration. Spammed pbe last night and inspiration is BY FAR my favorite tree. Call it desperation or something and have some crazy gamble high risk high reward effects would be just awesome. And yes please seperate the tank/enchanter trees into two seperate ones. Its bizzare that they are together
Glad you're having a fun time with Inspiration, and thanks for the feedback!
HenzoAF (NA)
: How can you balance that around champions that can spam skills and champions that can't. Also, what is the interaction with Ezreal's Q?
Not every rune has equal power on every champion. Champions that already like spell blade items are more likely to like this rune. We also can use the loot you get to broaden the audience.
: This depresses me. I _like_ experimenting and tinkering with new ideas and builds. (Current 100% ranked win rate with support Rammus as a counterpick to Yas bot, for instance.) Having a solid, stale meta in which people rage at you for not building the runeset deemed "best" by the sages on YouTube seems counter to the creative "personal expression" of playstyle and skill I've heard you are trying to set up. I hope that by the time the dust settles, people will realize there are many "best builds" and get excited when they see somebody running non-standard runes because they're about to see a champ get played in a new way.
By solid state, I mean that we don't have people feeling like Runes have made league less competitive or less strategic as implied by "Ranked might feel like blind pick or PBE." Runes Reforged is about making more room for exploration and expression, and I'd also be very depressed if that got blown out with our push to balance any of the stuff that really breaks the game on launch.
: Hey Fearless I wanted to ask your personal opinion, what was more daunting this or the preseason 5 jungle overhaul with the SR VU
Runes Reforged was easily the biggest change I've ever been a part of at Riot.
: Are you planning on enabling PBE sign-ups for more testers? I had a PBE account from around 2013 and occasionally dipped in for testing purposes, but it was disabled without warning because it was so old. I would love to help test runes for you but everyone I've spoken to told me there's no way to re-instate my PBE account or sign up for a new one.
I believe we will be opening up sign ups in the near future, but I don't have a timeline for that.
: All I ask is that you guys don't try to kill Moobeat and Aznbeat with this Pre Season
If there is anything we can do to make their lives easier, we do try to do it. Open to any suggestions here.
: Im gonna go out on a limb here and guess that more runes being added will always be a possibility. But on that note, will you just release new runes semi-randomly whenever you have a good idea or will you try and balance it out between the trees. For example, if you come up with a cool idea for an Inspiration keystone that works well in game, will you try to implement it asap or wait until you have other new keystones for the other trees so they all have 4 keystones rather than some with more than others.
Currently unsure, but I lean towards we wouldn't hold back great keystones only because we didn't have a new option for every style. The first few keystones we add are likely to support champions or playstyles we think are feeling left out, and I'm not interested in prolonging that pain if we have a fix ready.
: One question I have for the "klemptomancy" rune that everyone seems to be keeping way to quiet on. Will the AA loot only happen with you AA champs or will it affect any target (minions and monsters included basically)?
You can only get an item from using a spellblade proc on a champion.
kullehh (EUW)
: any idea when riot is going to post about end of season rewards
: If I read this post correctly are you guys say base stats will no longer need to be adjust on every champion, or that, that is still coming (with the removal of MPen runes, MR is nerfed or etc)? Either way is fine by me I'm just seeking clarity, sorry.
We might not need to do every champion, but it is likely that we still have more work on many individual champions. Did you have someone in mind?>
: On the PBE there are preset pages. Do those count toward your limit of rune pages?
: I'm very excited for season 8. with an update this massive, it might take the entire season in order to stabilize a meta so there's so much room for experimental would-be off picks and playstyles. Ranked might even feel like blind pick or PBE by mid season.
Obviously, that wouldn't be acceptable. I'm not saying we're going to land Runes in perfect balance, but we are putting in a lot of extra effort already on understanding Runes impact, and we'll continue to focus on balance through preseason. I do think October and November could have some very exciting discoveries surprise us, but I'm very hopeful that we'll be a solid state when ranked turns back on.
: Will you be buffing champions base stats? I tried out the new runes on nidalee in lane and she feels even worse than she does on live.
We have some changes in for base stats, but many of these are rough passes. It's very helpful to get feedback on individual champions or champ/position pairings that still feel off.
Jolg (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Fearless,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AnFieLAy,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-27T18:06:44.659+0000) > **LOOKING FURTHER OUT** >Additionally, we have some unfinished work for a fancier, high polish, and more computationally demanding runes selection experience. We’re hoping to finish this and let players try this out at some point. Finally, we want to add convenience features like bulk deleting runes pages, or other ways to make runes selection smoother once we can see where we have the biggest gains to make. Does this mean things like 1A. The ability to pick your champion before you pick your runes in the Play-style section, or wherever that ends up on the website/client so I can see how runes affect my starting stats which could modify my starting item buy. 1B. A level slider to see how progressive runes affect your stats. Yeah I could do it in the Practice tool but unless I can change my runes mid stream in the Practice tool this will be sucky. 2. The ability to assign champions to pre made rune pages. An app or addition to the LOL Friends app where I can test rune builds from my mobile.
So requests/suggestions like these are going to be very useful to us. We have a lot of potential things we could build, and understanding what players would find most useful will be a focus for us for quite a long time. Please keep telling us what you home to see!
  Rioter Comments
: Will players get bonus stats from their secondary tree too or just from their Keystone tree? Maybe a reduced amount? I.e Sorcery grants 20 AP with keystone but only 10 AP if a player choose Inspiration for their keystone tree and Sorcery for their secondary.
The bonus stats technically understand your primary and secondary styles, but we're currently not using that balance lever much. This is one of the things we may continue to tweak on PBE, actually.
: How much do you expect players to branch out into less obvious paths based on their champion class? I mean, is it assumed that every Mage will choose Sorcery as their primary path and if they don't they're "doing it wrong"? Or is there enough flexibility in the rune options that someone like Karthus could go Resolve primary / Precision secondary? EDIT: I don't want this to be a scary question. I mean, I think it's fine if most Tanks will choose Resolve and most Marksmen choose Precision. I'm just kind of curious if the Paths were designed more towards theme or function I guess?
Paths were definitely designed to be good homes for obvious pairs, but not to the degree that you're "doing it wrong" if you're in another style. In fact, if we see classes universally locked into particular paths (in the long term), we'd view that as a point to improve.
: I really hope theres some movement speed stuff. Or the koreans and I are gonna be so sad without our movespeed runes
Can confirm, there is some MS stuff.
: > The previous versions of runes and masteries had categories that were almost entirely functional Shoutout to the Energy increase and Energy regen runepages among us
We have not forgotten.
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