: > REMOVED: 60 / 140 / 220 / 300 + 60% AP damage over time. (damage over time??) That's an issue with the wiki. They fucked up something when they copied from RW, that also got its damage removed. The second link you quoted just awkwardly tries to tell you the exact values of the AoE shield, which was half of E's shield and half of the new bonus shield. The information doesn't appear to be conflicting tho. > Base shield strength increased to 30 / 100 / 170 / 240 from 30 / 90 / 150 / 210. AP ratio increased to 60% AP from 30% AP. This marks the begin of an era that tries making Karma all about her shield. Sad times.
You claimed that: "_**(RE shield pre 5.10)**_ ... **Bonus shield = 60 / 140 / 220 / 300 (+60% AP)** ..." However, in the second link it says this: **(Patch 5.10)** Defiance Defiance No longer deals damage. **Now increases the target's shield by 30 / 90 / 150 / 210 (+ 30% AP).** .. Oh ok. So I meant that your info on RE shield conflicted with my information on it. Sorry for the confusion. _**Basically, what you said about pre-patch 5.10 is at odds with what the wiki and my memory says.**_ Additionally: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/V3.5 Inspire Inspire (E) Target ally gains a shield, granting movement speed for a brief duration and absorbing damage. Mantra Mantra Bonus – **Defiance: The shield overflows with energy, dealing magic damage to all enemies around the shielded unit. Allied champions near the shielded unit gain half of that amount as a shield and are hasted.** No mention of bonus shielding.
: > They removed the damage and added bonus shielding to the main target, a lot of bonus shielding Weeelll, about that... **RE shield pre 5.10** E shield = 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+50%) AoE Damage = 60 / 140 / 220 / 300 (+60% AP) Bonus shield = 60 / 140 / 220 / 300 (+60% AP) AoE shield = 30/70/110/150 (+30%AP) **Today's RE** E shield = 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 50% AP) AoE Damage = 0 Bonus shield = 25 / 80 / 135 / 190 (+ 50% AP) AoE shield = 30% of main target No matter how you put it, her shielding is lower today than when she still had the shieldbomb. The real difference is, that these days she just has it _more often._ > it would be hard to balance and make her even more of a shield bot. Per definition, no, because if she casts something that does something other than shielding, she wouldn't feel too bad anymore. People loved the shieldbomb. So many people despise her current RE. But you are also somewhat correct, because NC wrote this: _"I tried to test the Shield Bomb a fair amount, and it actually played pretty well! It added more thought to the placement of the shield, given its positional requirements. However, at the end of the day, when we put the shield bomb with the AoE shields/MS, the proper tuning would make this ability feel pretty weak (and different configurations added complexity with little gain), so we needed to choose between Shield Bomb and AoE shields."_ Personally, I am more convinced that this tuning problem origins from her passive values, but that's just me talking from my armchair. > A buff to the target ally (temporary mana cost reduction, 15% missing mana regen over 3 seconds, 60% CDR (capped) for 2/2.5/3 seconds, reduce non-ultimate cooldowns by 30%...) Please no. That's the kind of stuff that made NC's rework fail in the first place. I could see the damage thing tho. But that's also the reason why I included this effect in my last rework of her. Did you see it btw? Otherwise you can find it at the end of [THIS](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FbvIP6AL-what-s9-taught-me-about-karma) post
V5.10 Defiance Defiance **NEW EFFECT: Primary target gains 30 / 90 / 150 / 210 + 30% AP shield health. Allied area-of-effect shield changed to 50% of primary target's from 30 / 70 / 110 / 150. REMOVED: 60 / 140 / 220 / 300 + 60% AP damage over time.** (damage over time??) This is from https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Karma in the patch history section. I see the issue now with regards to the shield bomb. There is a conflict of information. Also: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/V5.10 V6.6 Defiance Defiance Base shield strength increased to 30 / 100 / 170 / 240 from 30 / 90 / 150 / 210. AP ratio increased to 60% AP from 30% AP.
: I personally would prefer it if her passive got some depth and flavour, if her RQ acted a bit more reasonably (not blocked by minions, easier to dodge), if her RW heal didn't have tank scalings if W had an ally option and if RE dealt some damage again. But I must admit that having R+R as an option sounds like a neat idea for some karmic potential. Not sure if simple damage nova does the trick tho?
RE dealing damage again is something I feel strongly against. **They removed the damage and added bonus shielding to the main target, a lot of bonus shielding** With mantra CD reduction per enemy hit, a large radius (it is larger than original Karma's shield bomb by a decent bit), and dealing decent damage, it would be hard to balance and make her even more of a shield bot. I also am not personally interested in losing the bonus shielding. A simple damage nova alone would definitely not do the trick. Some options: The damage itself more interesting (ex. deals more damage the lower hp the target ally/self). A secondary debuff (disarm, silence, weaken, grounded, slight knockback...) A buff to the target ally (temporary mana cost reduction, 15% missing mana regen over 3 seconds, 60% CDR (capped) for 2/2.5/3 seconds, reduce non-ultimate cooldowns by 30%...)
Rioter Comments
: Karma's Gameplay Update: initial/tentative ideas for the inevitable.
The disarm sounds really good. However the removal of % missing hp (if that is what you did) will have some conflict with Tankma, and also I personally like the heal as a sort of endurance or renewal rather than just giving someone hp. I'm not sure if Tankma should be impacted so heavily but admittedly I don't care much for it myself. The mega shield + damage + reducing Mantra CD is questionable and may be a deal breaker. Also a delayed shield aoe bomb is sadly no longer unique because of Ivern, Kayle, and I suppose Neeko. Otherwise, thanks for sharing this and R+R double paths may be the direction Rito should head, along with ally W and changes to her passive. Also disarm and probably removal of root.
: These are some cool, simple and effective changes. But what about RE?
> [{quoted}](name=IxtaliKing,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mig5BbRq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-29T13:54:26.009+0000) > > These are some cool, simple and effective changes. But what about RE? Oh I left untouched. Will clarify. Do you think there should be any particular changes to RE? Just as a further note, I decided to only partially return the 'shield bomb' with the R + R. An aoe offensive radius, but only around Karma herself and no shield with a smaller radius then currently. This is because I feel that Rito would never bring back her old shield bomb as it was.
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: If she wasn't reworked years ago, given that Riot now has a hold on how to successfully rework champions while keeping their identities intact, I'm sure she would've retained one of the main themes that made her appealing to players such as myself back then which was the fact that her abilities could impact both allies and enemies at the same time. I'm not sure they'd approve giving damage back to the shield with its current form but I do like the idea of it having a mini-cc effect like a mini-stun or knock-back. That would improve her ability in saving allies or herself when they're being focused hard. The shield (and speed boost) sometimes isn't enough when the enemy team has lots of CC. I feel that's all that karma is missing at the moment (a strong CC) to compete with other supports (or mages) that have more than one hard CC in their kits.
Karma was one of Riot's, if not Riot's first major rework on a live champion, unfortunately for us. Ya I totally agree with your sentiment about her missing that touch of CC. I would prefer that over the AoE shield and speed boost any day. I miss it's ability to at least deal some instant AoE damage, so I would like to have that back as well however. And I guess I'm undecided on how much raw defensive power (from shields, dmg reduction, resists, healing) Karma should have.
: I like the ideas you're bringing to the table here. In regards to E, I honestly don't think a full-blown shield bomb with as much power as it had pre-rework should ever come back, but I do agree that it should do _some_ amount of damage (or perhaps apply a debuff instead) to nearby enemies. I also like your idea that it should CC people _immediately_ near it. I've always been disappointed whenever I successfully shield a target with her Mantra'd E, but despite the powerful shield, the enemies were able to stand right next to them and CC them so hard that there was nothing I could do. I would gladly take a significant shield nerf for her Mantra'd E in exchange for maybe... a .25 or .5 second knockback? It can't be anything insanely powerful, but enough to actually feel like an overflowing shield pushing enemies back. I agree that her current passive needs to be switched onto her R, and that it should be nerfed. Her R should not be up as frequently as it is right now, because it's very obnoxious to lane against Karma knowing that her R is up practically whenever she needs it. This is partially due to how much CDR is in the game right now and how accessible it is, but regardless, it needs some nerfs. Can I ask what you mean by "Global CD?" Do you mean like Karthus ultimate, where people can predict when he's casting it with the dark magic above their heads? Do you mean all the enemies should hear her incantations? I don't think Karma's W should grant damage reduction if we're going to reimplement an ally cast. I fear this lacks counterplay, and would make Karma even more frustrating to go against. Now, if we made her allied W split 20/30/40/50/60% of the damage an ally takes onto her for a short time, I suppose that's fine, but I'm afraid that Karma would then be pushed into a tankier build to compensate. I honestly love Neuro's idea for CDR being applied to an ally, and when mantra'd, perhaps a small health restore. The problem is all about risk; what is Karma losing by using her Mantra on an ally rather than an enemy? Her W is easily the hardest ability in her kit to balance. I absolutely agree that the detonation on Karma's mantra'd Q should do WAY more damage. Nerf the initial hit damage, add damage to that. Enemies would actually put forth the effort to move out of the zone if it was intimidating.
Thanks for the lengthy response :) By global CD, I mean that all of Karma's basic abilities are put on a brief minimum CD. I should probably change that to clarify. Basically she will have to wait a very small amount of time after pressing R to use another ability but it does not stop her movement (or auto attacks). This way they will also get to see her beautiful mantra'd state at least for a brief moment. The idea of a knockback rather than a stun is actually very interesting, but the CC on her shield might still not be good enough in a number of cases to prevent the ally ADC from being destroyed. In the past, Karma having a giant shield (1.1 ap and etc.) was the answer to the set of cases in which the ADC was helplessly locked down and exploded, though still not always enough. These cases do need to be addressed because there are quite a few of them and it is a giant hole in her kit. Generally speaking, these cases can be dealt with using anti-CC (Morgana), counter CC (Sona or Janna ult), heals plus shields, and items. Karma's cc is not the best for these cases and her shield alone is actually quite weak. I'm not sure if the brief CC on the Mantra E would be enough to potentially save the ADC, which is why I added damage reduction and healing on the W and Mantra W. I feel that a weaker Annie E on a 12 or higher CD that is tied to her snare and lasts 1.5 seconds with a tether range is fairly balanced, but I would like to hear what you mean by lacking counterplay and causing enemies further frustration. I suppose Karma shouldn't have heavy duty peeling but she needs something. Perhaps that slight knockback is just what she needs. I feel that Neurocat's version of W and Mantra W may lead to an oppressive Karma Cait or Sivir lane sort of thing but I guess I wouldn't know for a fact if that would be a problem. Her W really is the hardest ability to deal with and the CD reduction would be very interesting. I'm glad we agree for the most part.
Rioter Comments
: Why is boosting tolerated when streamers do it for views?
True, especially since streamers can avoid impacting low elo ranked matches by organizing custom games.
Kiryu (NA)
: Really, she just is kind of the epitome of the struggle of balancing adcs. They're meant to be tank killers/turret breakers but at the same time, being able to shred a tank usually means being able to burst a squishy as well which generally leads to frustration.
> [{quoted}](name=Kiryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gfMnwEhW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-18T10:16:09.111+0000) > > Really, she just is kind of the epitome of the struggle of balancing adcs. They're meant to be tank killers/turret breakers but at the same time, being able to shred a tank usually means being able to burst a squishy as well which generally leads to frustration. She seems to also be meant to be an assassin as well rather than simply a tank killer, but being successful at both is fundamentally distressing. Even with the q nerf the shiv IE combo is particularly strong and her scaling damage and ability to kite are quite powerful right now.
: I used my brain to read the whole post unlike some mindless sheeple
I don't see why such animosity is warranted from his post aside from unrelated past grievances you may have.
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: There's always that one detail: Cl...
It seems to come up randomly on the client when selecting a game mode where the game mode title gets cut off. I never saw it before so I assume it came with this patch. The 'Classic' title is okay again for some reason but 'Dominion' is getting cut off. ["Do..."](http://imgur.com/CU1DqUx)
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Rueian (NA)
: I have a couple times, the few therapists I saw were less then helpful, the last one was actually damaging. I don't normally sleep well, but these last few days I've gotten next to no sleep because of emotions. I don't know what happiness is. It is in human nature to judge, to cope and protect ones self. But it also damages social skills. I don't make friends, I don't know how. I don't like writing, I have writing anxiety
Isn't writing anxiety when you are worried about other people reading it or something? I don't really know that much about it, but writing a journal can be completely private if it is about other people reading it. Admittedly without specifics its hard to say anything. That, and I'm not really a therapist. But I did meet someone on league that was suicidal and depressed and told me a lot of things, and I think I helped. Then again, they met someone and fell in love. I don't really know what I can do except listen, but who knows? I wouldn't mind being there for you, so if you want, go ahead and add me.
Rueian (NA)
: I hate my life...
Have you tried seeking professional help? Seeking help at all, like coming here for help, can be a very hard step to take. Also, lack of sleep can not only be a symptom of depression but also a cause, lending further to itself. Anyway, I'm not exactly sure what to say but someone once said that greater sadness also shows a greater capacity for happiness. And the whole judging thingy and good or bad people is so frustrating. Like, I know someone who is into conspiracy theories and hates people and told me they rejected Jesus but the people at church liked him. Or that person who was worried about my roommate being black and doesn't view black people so well but can how'do'ya'do with them without seeming 'fake'. Maybe I'm misunderstanding things, who knows? And then there is that person with psychosis and another with antisocial personality disorder. Sometimes I see someone I judged laugh like a little kid with someone else. And sometimes I see people being good to the people they love even if they don't like me for reasons I think are bad. And then I saw in the news someone turned themselves in for murdering and raping a girl. Well.. but I don't think wanting to be a good person is a bad thing. The story usually goes that you find someone you love or some career with passion or God helps you to your feet, a mix, or some other things. You still have chances to give your life meaning. I'm not really sure if I said that right tho. On another note, do you write stuff? Like a journal or something? I heard it helps. Anyway, I'll be praying for you, and I just did.
: Braum's mustace should scale in size with his maximum HP.
lol and sonas breast size should scale with everything
gaby1best (EUNE)
: McUrgot - Urgot to be lovin' it.
I tried to make a custom skin of this a while ago actually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpDnIqVPBcQ Q.Q I don't know how to change the model mesh so I just did the best I could.
: Why doesn't Dr. Mundo use a toilet?
Why is Mundo the best masseur? Because Mundo knows where he pleases.
Rebonack (NA)
: A new Brutalizer item? How about-
Yes... YES!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhvjouozgw4 WUAHAAHAHAH!
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ƒæµ (NA)
: I love seeing old league videos :)
The good ol' days when Sivir was OP and they had to rework her *sighs*
Rioter Comments
: Yeah, in bronze in silver. Plus, in this game he was laning against a non-mobile champ. Veigar will get destroyed by any mobile champ with these changes.
This video features two games, one against Malzahar and another against Zed. The game against Zed is further in. BUT I admittedly agree that Veigar will run into issues against people in higher ranks. They will likely actually know how to handle this guy and abuse the changes.
: I definately saw a few time where that stun missed where it would have hit before. Also Q missed... multiple times. Still Veigar doesn't seem ruined or the like, though that Mordekaiser Siphon in the midlane looked weak - you didn't have any MR items that I could see, anyway.
Even though the tooltips for Morde have changed it doesn't seem like his abilities have actually changed. The changes will probably be rolled out a bit later. Also, I had no magic resist from items.
: Is his q a skillshot now are am I just stupid
Yes it is a skillshot that can hit another target after the first. However, if two minions are very close to each other it will hit them both instead of going through.
: While he is still viable, there were so many times in that video were I got frustrated because I knew that if the stun was as it used to be, that would be a sure kill. In one particular instance, you could've got an easy triple if the stun had had no delay.
Yes the delay allowed a couple escapes that I purposely showed as a warning to Veigar players. There was one clip in which I felt like I could have landed the stun but hesitated (the one where I am chasing Trist and Zed). Trist might have flashed but Zed probably would have gotten stunned since he had no energy.
Yoella (NA)
: Hey thanks this was good to see. I'm the OP of one of the threads on the front page right now complaining about the Veigar rework. I'm happy to see that the projectile speed on Q looks darn snazzy and that you can still manage to catch the likes of Zed (albeit more difficult now and this is only two games of evidence). I am curious how laning would go against a mobile mid, not another immobile mage like Malzahar. This video has alleviated a few of my fears, but I still think it needs some tweaking, as several fears remain. How often were you able to last hit 2 minions with your Q on a single blast?
I honestly don't think Zed is that horrible of a matchup compared to the likes of Talon and Leblanc, but we'll see. As usual, early on getting the stacks with q is still mana costly and a bit slow. Double Q-ing is almost impossible early on too. However, when you get ap, mana regen, and more points in Q the double q-ing gets pretty decent. Since his q behaves similarly to Lux Q, you can double Q two low minions who are next to each other but not necessarily one behind the other, which helps quite a bit. You can also use your W to set up double Qs (or just autos). I think good Veigar players will on average have at least 120 bonus AP by 25 minutes from minions and kills. For my game against Zed, I watched the game on 2x speed and counted my minion Qs. About 29% was double Qs, however if the game went on longer and I actually farmed more later (in which it is easier to double Q) this might have increased (remember I went 14-2-6, 113 cs in a 28 minute game). BTW that Zed went 11/6/5 with 155 cs. Even though he looked silly in the clips I showed, he obviously did a lot of work across the map and farmed more. It's definitely true that Veigar's weaknesses just got weaker. Now every ability except his ult can be juked or juked more easily. Riot probably wants to reduce his 'instant stun and kill' gameplay, but his defensive game is also taking a hit for no reason. They should consider a number of options that would either give him back some offensive power at the cost of his defense or simply give him some defense. Regardless, I don't think his new E should be released as is. Riot should at least be more tentative and reduce the delay to .5 seconds. Hope this was helpful!
Gunpoint (NA)
: "Here's a pretty **short** preview of his new kit in action. Hope you enjoy!" Bahahahahah
Edit: O gawd I didn't even get the joke. At first :C
: Veigar Rework Gameplay Video
LOL Unfortunately I must admit that so far my experience with the PBE has been a bit underwhelming in terms of player skill level. It wasn't purposeful though (not that it makes things much better)! Who knows, maybe new Veigar will run into high elo syndrome - unviable in higher ranks.
: Veigar Rework Gameplay Video
Haha if that's sarcasm then unfortunately I don't think those two games can represent how he will be in terms of power. I do feel that a lot of people are underestimating his rework though. Also, thanks for watching! If that's not sarcasm then awks :X
: Veigar Rework Gameplay Video
: Remember when Riot said Veigar was gonna get COMPENSATED for DFG removal?
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/league-videos/7LJpUn2B-veigar-rework-gameplay-video Hi! This is a short video previewing his new gameplay. Watch if you dare :P
: Veigar Rework Gameplay Video
No problemo :) Thank you for watching!
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: Semi-serious Ranked 5s
Yay, now we just need a jungler :))
: Semi-serious Ranked 5s
I have two people who are interested. Looking for jungle and adc :) bump
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