Meddler
(NA)
:
Tiamat - bit too strong a spike as a rush item, power of wave clear offered's very high even if not always appreciated.
Compensation - Potentially. Might mean we buff WW a bit more than we otherwise would for example. Also open to helping any other champs hit hard who shouldn't be brought down a bit power wise anyway.
What are the plans in terms of a nerf for Tiamat? What are you looking to buff on Warwick as compensation since he does heavily rely on Tiamat?
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Not a bug because almost all of Warwick's damage is magic damage. His passive gives him magic damage on hit, his Q is magic damage and so is his ulti.
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Considering I have done it with multiple junglers I disagree with you.
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or something? I could tower dive with amumu and get the same result if they were low enough.
When are you going to show proof? Until then you are just making things up out of anger.
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I mean it didn't just magically drop for no reason.
You can argue against it all you want but you provide no proof other than just blind rage.
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55% winrate in patch 8.8 to a 51% winrate in 8.9. Yeah the nerf did absolutely nothing.
You are trolling if you actually think warwick scales well into late game.
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He got nerfed in 8.9.
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The base AD damage nerf will hurt him some but the Q nerf is a laughable placebo change that will get people to stop complaining about him until they realize he still has a 53% winrate 2 weeks later. If Riot actually wants to hurt his early game then it is his W that needs to be nerfed.
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Q max is not the best because W max gives better clear and early game pressure by a lot so you can snowball easier. If the current Q nerfs on PBE go live you will always max W first unless you are AP or lanewick.
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I really do not get the current PBE changes unless they have plans to nerf his W again later in the cycle. Honestly the current Q change does not do anything but make the W max skill up order even more mandatory. This is more of a nerf to lanewick and the AP build than it is to the regular jungle build.
1% Q damage nerf early game while a slight nerf to his mid and a big nerf late game where he is close to worthless makes zero sense.
Nerfing alternative rune, role and skill ups while leaving the dominate one pretty much untouched is an extremely wrong way to go about this.
At least with yesterdays changes it had a clear direction on what it was targeting. You would either go Q Max for the damage and sustain or max W for better early game pressure and clear instead of having both like live Warwick does now. You would be making a choice! Now with the current PBE changes you will always max W no real debate there.
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Both the Q and W nerfs target his early clear, dueling and ganking potency which in return lowers his snowball potential.
These are noticeable nerfs to his early game because now you either max Q for the damage and healing or W for the early game pressure. You don't really get both anymore. A lot of people maxed W first into Q second which is a pretty big nerf to that skill order due to the loss of damage and sustain at early levels.
Outside of getting really ahead these late game buffs are extremely small.
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Not sure how you see these as buffs unless you only looked at the max rank changes.
This overall is a nerf. The W change alone is a pretty huge nerf for his early game while the Q damage and heal change means he won't be max health when he ganks at level 3 anymore.
The small buffs for late game still do not change the fact he is still going to remain irrelevant after 25 minutes unless he is far ahead.
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Because champions like Skarner, Sej and Zac have way more utility, cc and innate tankyness mid/late game while all warwick can do late game is just peel for the carries. He is pretty bad in coordinated play.
He is a pub stomp champion in solo Q because a lot of games snowball and end before 20 minutes before he falls off.
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If anything his W needs an early game nerf coupled with bug fixes and E needs to be changed to be weaker early game and stronger later to help his lack of power there. This also indirectly nerfs the PtA rune build which honestly is what makes him so hilarious strong in 1v1's right now.
The only thing that needs to be changed with Q is the double damage bug they still haven't fixed despite what the last set of patch notes said.
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I have played it in ARAM quite a few times and it is fine if you go dark harvest. There are definitely better builds but AP is not dead there.
https://i.imgur.com/hPTbM19.png
This is my most recent against a really heavy poke comp.
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I wouldn't say AP warwick is dead. You can reliably run it in the jungle compared to the old Warwick and the build can still one shot squishies late game.
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> [{quoted}](name=Deputy Van Halen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6v5TWtai,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-28T14:10:18.188+0000)
>
> I honestly hate the new Warwick. It doesn't feel very fluid, and I don't find it to be very much fun at all. He used to be my favorite champion, and now I reroll him in ARAM. One sad little puppy.
There are a couple of bugs with his W and his ulti+E interaction that can sometimes make him feel really clunky to play. Aside from that as someone who has mained Warwick since 2010 the new Warwick is way better than the old.
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Old Feral Warwick is as much of a recolor as the new one is. They both have/had clear model differences compared to the base skin outside of different colors. Warwick stopped being a werewolf in the traditional sense after the first lore rewrite in 2012.
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A lot of people liked the old Feral Warwick because it was based off of the traditional werewolf theme.
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He wasn't nerfed for being able to solo dragon early specifically. The last time Warwick was nerfed was in 4.20 and then again in 4.21 due to abusing feral flare.
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His pick rate is significantly lower in KR as well. Makes me wish I had an account there so I can play my main again.
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I can agree with this. I like Smite for what it is but it sure can have terrible meta's that make me take a break and comeback to LoL. With Warwick being pick/ban every game now it might be time for me to primarily focus on Smite again.
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Looking into fixing the double Q bug should be a priority.
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You guys should have took the hint when the rework was cancelled last fall. They want to keep him as an intro champ which basically means he is doomed.
-----
I'd probably be fine with his rework being cancelled if a super cool fun kit wasn't spewed on reddit and a few other sites (surrender@20) by Daniel which got me (and a bunch of others) super hyped about it only to be slammed into the ground with disappointment a few months later.
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He is only as strong as his items allow him to be. Super binary champion that needs to be reworked very badly.
Lowering his numbers doesn't fix the problem because if Riot ever decides to buff any of the on hit items or god forbid add a new one Warwick will be broken again. These last couple of nerfs were a bandaid not a fix to the problem.
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The bug with the damage continuing after his ulti has been disrupted has been around for well over a year now. I've reported it a few times only to be ignored.
Honestly Riot had a ton of chances to see this coming. First with the BoRK buff in season 3 (and 4), followed by the Wit's End buff a few months after that and again when Feral Flare was added to the game. Warwick is only strong when his core items are because he is a very binary champion. He needs to be reworked already because lowering his numbers isn't a true fix it's a band-aid.
As already pointed out he is pretty much balanced around a single jungle item now. If it gets buffed he gets strong if it's nerfed he gets weaker. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being forced into this super tank item build to remain relevant as things get changed throughout next year.
He needs to be reworked really badly.
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It's more than just his ultimate.
He is a ridiculously binary champion in general that has needed a rework for a very long time now. You would think if all it took was a slight change to the jungle and a new item to bring him up to a 60% winrate and a 95% ban rate you would put him on top priority for a kit rework.
Changing a bunch of numbers is not a fix to these type of champions it's a bandaid that is going to get peeled off the next time something similar happens down the road.
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That is until people realize that you can still basically do the same things you were doing before with him.
These nerfs didn't fix the problem.
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The funny thing is the ulti nerfs did hardly anything to jungle Warwick. Adc's and most mages will still continue to get one shotted by it because the damage nerf is no where significant enough to combat the amount of on hit damage he gets from the jungle item and wit's end alone.
The cooldown nerf on his ulti hurt lanewick a lot. The damage nerf just made things harder unless you take smite and build the jungle item anyways.
The W nerf is a huge change because it hurts his early clear and his late game team utility a lot.
These nerfs did nothing to address the actual problems with Warwick. They need to fix the bug with his ulti that has existed since mid season 3 that allows his ulti damage + on hits to continue through QSS, CC and even death. Lack of counterplay is the issue here.
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Patch 4.21 notes
Since these nerfs to {{champion:19}} basically do nothing to solve the actual issue with that champion which is going to result in him getting nerfed even more can we just rework him already?
I'm still not sure why he isn't a top rework priority when all it took was a new item and a slight change to the jungle to make him beyond broken. I would rather see him not nerfed into oblivion until then. :(
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[I wouldn't get your hopes up for that](https://twitter.com/RiotMorello/status/538799009985335296)
There has been talk of his rework as far back as the end of season 2 and we mostly get the above response when it is asked about.
I'm still extremely upset the kit that was spoiled earlier this year was scrapped.
I'm confused how he is still so low on the list when all it took was a new item and slight changes to the jungle to make him ridiculously broken. He needs a rework not a bunch of nerfs.
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This is why I really wanted his rework to happen before something like this came along. I don't get why he isn't a top priority on the rework list when all it takes is a single item and a slight change to the jungle to make him ridiculously broken.
The problem with these nerfs is they do not solve his main issue. Since they reverted the nerfs to devourer he is still going to be one shotting squishies even after these nerfs. You nerf him too much he becomes frustrating to play as and an undesirable pick.
The real issue with his ult right now is not necessarily the on-hit effects it's the lack of counterplay combo'd with the bugs it currently has. QSS doesn't stop the damage (I swore it did at one point) and neither does disrupiting/CC'ing him out of it. I have even ulti'd and flashed immediately and still got the kill because all 5 ticks of damage still applied long after I was gone. I would honestly rather see them do a mini rework on his ulti before they gut it to tie him over until his rework no one knows when is going to happen and how far off.
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The W nerf hurts his early clear speed and utility in team fights but that ult nerf doesn't solve the issue we are experiencing right now at all.
I do not understand why he isn't a top priority on being reworked right now. Warwick is a binary champion and always has been. Nerfing his numbers is not a fix it's a band-aid until he becomes problematic again.
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They probably want to wait until his relaunch which there is no telling how far that is off. As it currently stands Warwick is the only Alpha phase champion left that hasn't received a new splash (not including Chinese swaps).
I wouldn't be so peeved about this if I knew his relaunch was relatively soon. I really hope early - mid 2015.
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Still going to happen (eventually). His new kit is going to require some pretty heavy art resources so it won't be anytime soon. Possibly after the Sion relaunch when some of those resources open up.
Like Sion, Warwick is getting a relaunch which is both a kit rework and a VU. Not anywhere near as extreme as Sion though. Rioter in charge of the rework said something about early 2015 at the earliest so it's still a very long ways off.
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Meddler
(NA)
:
Still planned, we pulled ZenontheStoic who was working on Warwick's gameplay onto a new champion that a gameplay designer though, so his work on Warwick's been put on hold until that champ ships.
That's quite depressing to hear. :(
I was super pumped for his rework when Zenon spoiled his new kit a few months ago. Now it seems like the rework has been pushed back even further than the "Probably not this year" Zenon gave us on reddit/twitter.
*Off to my fiery den I go
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ZenonTheStoic
(NA)
:
Hi! We have a strong direction on a Warwick kit--he's totally playable and tracking very well internally. However, the kit changes enough that we cannot ship it without new art: new animations, new particle effects, and new sounds. At this point we would be 90% to remaking the champion, and he really needs it. So the new Warwick kit will ship whenever we have the time to give Warwick a full visual update. I would hope that's some time late this year, but no promises.
I hope the proposed kit rework that you posted doesn't change much because I absolutely love it! Can't wait to test it when it eventually hits the PBE.
As for the visuals I'm curious on what direction you guys will take him. I'm really hoping to see Warwick transition from a derpy manbeast into something a lot more threatening.
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Only confirmed ones I know that are getting a Kit rework with a VU is {{champion:14}} , {{champion:19}}, and {{champion:78}}.
I know Riot has some kit tweaks planned for {{champion:35}} , {{champion:26}}, and {{champion:44}}, but I'm not sure if they are rework level. Taric and Zilean kinda need VU's as well.
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I would assume it would definitely be a full relaunch or more since Sion is currently a mess. New art, model, possibly completely different kit and a slight theme shift? With that aside Sion deserves a rework more than anybody right now.
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Even If the Warwick rework only made him half as fun as Fenrir I would still consider it a success.
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If it was slapped directly onto his current kit probably, but we don't know what's going on with the rest of his new kit number wise. Until more info is posted we can only make assumptions.
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ZenonTheStoic
(NA)
:
Not like Fiora's at all. Here's the exact passive (and remember this can change still; especially the numbers)
Deals 2% of target maximum health as magic damage with each basic attack while healing for 5 (+XX) (half vs minions).
Each attack builds one stack of Eternal Thirst, which increases the healing from this effect by 11%.
Maximum stacks: 10
Damage capped against monsters to: YY
XX currently scales with level from 0.9% bonus health to 1.4% bonus health. Those numbers do look very low, but remember you have tools to multiproc the passive, you have the Eternal Thirst stacks that improve healing, and finally the Q itself has a multiplicative heal amp on it.
Does this mean he doesn't lose stacks when he switches targets (or it dies)? If that's the case I already like this passive more.
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Riot Scruffy
(NA)
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My biggest like about the warwick gameplay changes in progress are that they give him many more important decisions and high moments. He will actually be able to make "big plays," which is really great.
Oh man the tease is real. Too bad it seems so far away.
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ZenonTheStoic
(NA)
:
Yup! Blood Scent stays (but receives a toggle) and Hungering Strike becomes Hungering Strikes (still with a very similar purpose), but other than that a lot of things will change.
So excited! Can't wait! :)
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Firefang Warwick

Level 132 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes