Meddler (NA)
: Tiamat - bit too strong a spike as a rush item, power of wave clear offered's very high even if not always appreciated. Compensation - Potentially. Might mean we buff WW a bit more than we otherwise would for example. Also open to helping any other champs hit hard who shouldn't be brought down a bit power wise anyway.
What are the plans in terms of a nerf for Tiamat? What are you looking to buff on Warwick as compensation since he does heavily rely on Tiamat?
: BUG Camille vs warwick shield (gameplay)
Not a bug because almost all of Warwick's damage is magic damage. His passive gives him magic damage on hit, his Q is magic damage and so is his ulti.
: No you couldnt get the same result simply because amumu doesnt have enough dmg to 100-0 someone 1v3 under turret.
Considering I have done it with multiple junglers I disagree with you.
: its not a blind rage. I see what is going on in the game. When I see WW tower diving my team 1v3 with only titanic at 15 minutes or something and being able to kill my adc ezreal through janna shields and heals (and janna is fking broken right now) then there is something wrong. He died only because he backed off for a last auto to close to turret and eaten last tower shot. He had flash and he would get away with that. BTW ezreal had executioners so well that explains everything. The drop means only that there is something more broken that took it place, but just because something else is more broken it doesnt mean the nerfed champion is balanced now.
or something? I could tower dive with amumu and get the same result if they were low enough. When are you going to show proof? Until then you are just making things up out of anger.
: win rate means nothing. Leblanc with silence years ago had 45% win rate but was cancerous and her kit had no counterplay and it was easy to play to the point anyone could pick her. Warwick is even worse because while leblanc was squishy warwick is tanky as hell and is braindead easy to play. Champs like this should be below 45% winrate untill their kit is properly balanced and given skill expression rather than brainless pure stats.
I mean it didn't just magically drop for no reason. You can argue against it all you want but you provide no proof other than just blind rage.
: You call that a nerf? It is as much as a nerf as 0.25 sec cooldown on zoe Q. I imply you are intelligent enough to understand obvious sarcasm. Riot should force WW to actually build dmg items to deal dmg. Not give him amazing early game and good late game scaling at the same time.
55% winrate in patch 8.8 to a 51% winrate in 8.9. Yeah the nerf did absolutely nothing. You are trolling if you actually think warwick scales well into late game.
: Can we get Warwick nerfed already?
Xiniseid (NA)
: Why exactly is Warwick being nerfed?
The base AD damage nerf will hurt him some but the Q nerf is a laughable placebo change that will get people to stop complaining about him until they realize he still has a 53% winrate 2 weeks later. If Riot actually wants to hurt his early game then it is his W that needs to be nerfed.
Hibeki (NA)
: I would be fine with making his W so much more clear and consistent if they took off some power from Q. And I love warwick by the way, not really calling for nerfs. I liked that on release you could choose the style of maxing Q, W, or E first (I like to max W) But now its just Q every time
Q max is not the best because W max gives better clear and early game pressure by a lot so you can snowball easier. If the current Q nerfs on PBE go live you will always max W first unless you are AP or lanewick.
: Discussion about Warwick changes
I really do not get the current PBE changes unless they have plans to nerf his W again later in the cycle. Honestly the current Q change does not do anything but make the W max skill up order even more mandatory. This is more of a nerf to lanewick and the AP build than it is to the regular jungle build. 1% Q damage nerf early game while a slight nerf to his mid and a big nerf late game where he is close to worthless makes zero sense. Nerfing alternative rune, role and skill ups while leaving the dominate one pretty much untouched is an extremely wrong way to go about this. At least with yesterdays changes it had a clear direction on what it was targeting. You would either go Q Max for the damage and sustain or max W for better early game pressure and clear instead of having both like live Warwick does now. You would be making a choice! Now with the current PBE changes you will always max W no real debate there.
Fawksea (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bcOMvAEN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-18T21:08:49.186+0000) > > Nerfs to early game, buffs to late game. It's balancing. except right at lvl 5 the Q "nerfs" don't mean anything, this is barely gonna hit his farm speed or his damage, it's just gonna make him even worse after he starts snowballing
Both the Q and W nerfs target his early clear, dueling and ganking potency which in return lowers his snowball potential. These are noticeable nerfs to his early game because now you either max Q for the damage and healing or W for the early game pressure. You don't really get both anymore. A lot of people maxed W first into Q second which is a pretty big nerf to that skill order due to the loss of damage and sustain at early levels. Outside of getting really ahead these late game buffs are extremely small.
: They are buffing Warwick on PBE
Not sure how you see these as buffs unless you only looked at the max rank changes. This overall is a nerf. The W change alone is a pretty huge nerf for his early game while the Q damage and heal change means he won't be max health when he ganks at level 3 anymore. The small buffs for late game still do not change the fact he is still going to remain irrelevant after 25 minutes unless he is far ahead.
: According to LS hes a S tier jungler in challenger so idk how hes not a pick or ban in LCS
Because champions like Skarner, Sej and Zac have way more utility, cc and innate tankyness mid/late game while all warwick can do late game is just peel for the carries. He is pretty bad in coordinated play. He is a pub stomp champion in solo Q because a lot of games snowball and end before 20 minutes before he falls off.
Keti (NA)
: I think they should nerf q or e at early ranks. Warwick has crazy pressure because he can get away with W max cuz rank one q and e are surprisingly good.
If anything his W needs an early game nerf coupled with bug fixes and E needs to be changed to be weaker early game and stronger later to help his lack of power there. This also indirectly nerfs the PtA rune build which honestly is what makes him so hilarious strong in 1v1's right now. The only thing that needs to be changed with Q is the double damage bug they still haven't fixed despite what the last set of patch notes said.
Häxel (EUW)
: well at least on aram it's dead cause you no longer have the q range to constantly poke and heal. In the jungle i on't realy know. But q having a 120% **total** ad ratio and 90% ap ratio and ult having 167% **bonus** ad ratio and no ap ratio i would assume an ad or onhit warwick is far better as an ap warwick. There is for example the new rageblade so the ap ration on q is not wasted nad rageblade benefits from bonus ad and warwick ult strong too. I eman, you probably can pull ap jungle warwick off but ap aram warwick just doesn't work anymore unless your team ahs enough poke so you actualy not sit under your own tower the whole time and get items but probably both teams need to not sit under the tower and fight constantly so warwick can use q.
I have played it in ARAM quite a few times and it is fine if you go dark harvest. There are definitely better builds but AP is not dead there. This is my most recent against a really heavy poke comp.
Häxel (EUW)
: How was old warwick more fluid? Only aram nerf i see is the probably dead ap warwick cause his q is no longer a high range no skill ability. I like the warwick rework cause it now requires you to actualy play a champion with some skill, i mean just look at this: no skill in using ult, using q and than you not even need hands. New w, e and q also gives him even pre 6 quite some gankpower and he has with his also changed passive and ult clear strenghts and weaknesses.
I wouldn't say AP warwick is dead. You can reliably run it in the jungle compared to the old Warwick and the build can still one shot squishies late game.
: I honestly hate the new Warwick. It doesn't feel very fluid, and I don't find it to be very much fun at all. He used to be my favorite champion, and now I reroll him in ARAM. One sad little puppy.
> [{quoted}](name=Deputy Van Halen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6v5TWtai,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-28T14:10:18.188+0000) > > I honestly hate the new Warwick. It doesn't feel very fluid, and I don't find it to be very much fun at all. He used to be my favorite champion, and now I reroll him in ARAM. One sad little puppy. There are a couple of bugs with his W and his ulti+E interaction that can sometimes make him feel really clunky to play. Aside from that as someone who has mained Warwick since 2010 the new Warwick is way better than the old.
: But it was just a recolor of basic Warwick. Warwick himself is based on the traditional werewolf theme. It was a redundant skin for that very reason.
Old Feral Warwick is as much of a recolor as the new one is. They both have/had clear model differences compared to the base skin outside of different colors. Warwick stopped being a werewolf in the traditional sense after the first lore rewrite in 2012.
: I actually like the updated Feral a lot more than the old one. The old Feral was just brown Warwick, and super bland. The new one is unique, it's Warwick as he's escaped from a facility, and actually has a pretty good theme to it. Regarding Irelia, I do like the fur in the new Frostblade skin, it gives it a nice aristocratic feel. The colors of that skin are completely wrong (which they've stated they will be taking a pass at, among other things), so I have some hope that maybe they'll push it back towards the gold and blue the old one had.
A lot of people liked the old Feral Warwick because it was based off of the traditional werewolf theme.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rksroOKp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-20T04:01:25.991+0000) > > There is a decent amount of people who can take dragons at level 4, he wouldn't be alone at this. Though I do hate WW but not gonna justify people wanting him nerfed for something that a lot of other champions can do as well. I said "before", and similarly Warwick's just an example - the idea of taking a dragon before Lv6 is something he was nerfed because of before, and yet it's now perfectly-fine for no real reason at all.
He wasn't nerfed for being able to solo dragon early specifically. The last time Warwick was nerfed was in 4.20 and then again in 4.21 due to abusing feral flare.
: Korean WW Banrate Oddity
His pick rate is significantly lower in KR as well. Makes me wish I had an account there so I can play my main again.
Isalva (NA)
: Granted Smite is holding up just fine, its back there somewhere. It's doing its own thing and that ain't bad honestly. It has a loyal fanbase and the game is very fun right now ever since Hi-Rez fix S4 around the midway point. S4 was when I quit, I hated S4 so much as Mage main. Granted I main Anubis, luckily Ra, Chang'e, Nox, and Thoth are very fun to play. I just wish a lot of the Gods weren't so one dimensional gameplay wise.
I can agree with this. I like Smite for what it is but it sure can have terrible meta's that make me take a break and comeback to LoL. With Warwick being pick/ban every game now it might be time for me to primarily focus on Smite again.
: > [{quoted}](name=LyingOnLine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JjgkhRhW,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-28T19:48:50.409+0000) > > Your opinion matters jack and shit compared to reality. Reality is without any form of buffs and nerfs Warwick has gotten to a high win rate. There are three ways of dealing with it. One, just nerf Warwick and don't try and figure out why he suddenly got such a high win rate. Two, figure out why Warwick has gotten to where he is now and nerf that, as if Warwick is abusing it chances are other champions are abusing it as well. Three, do nothing for a little bit and let Warwick have his moment in the spotlight for a few patches before doing option one or two. Personally I'd like to let Warwick have his moment in the spotlight, the wolf dude deserves it.
Looking into fixing the double Q bug should be a priority.
Tachi (NA)
: That is incredibly disappointing. I can understand Poppy and Taric, but not Urgot and Yorick. I can not wrap my head around why you guys don't feel the need to focus on the original champs before ones that were released a year to two years after them. I understand that their kits need tweaks as well, but why aren't you guys focusing, at least art-wise, on the beta champs? Some of them don't even have splash art updates.
You guys should have took the hint when the rework was cancelled last fall. They want to keep him as an intro champ which basically means he is doomed. ----- I'd probably be fine with his rework being cancelled if a super cool fun kit wasn't spewed on reddit and a few other sites (surrender@20) by Daniel which got me (and a bunch of others) super hyped about it only to be slammed into the ground with disappointment a few months later.
Xelon J (NA)
: Warwick nerf..
He is only as strong as his items allow him to be. Super binary champion that needs to be reworked very badly. Lowering his numbers doesn't fix the problem because if Riot ever decides to buff any of the on hit items or god forbid add a new one Warwick will be broken again. These last couple of nerfs were a bandaid not a fix to the problem.
: Warwick nerfs went a tad overboard.
The bug with the damage continuing after his ulti has been disrupted has been around for well over a year now. I've reported it a few times only to be ignored. Honestly Riot had a ton of chances to see this coming. First with the BoRK buff in season 3 (and 4), followed by the Wit's End buff a few months after that and again when Feral Flare was added to the game. Warwick is only strong when his core items are because he is a very binary champion. He needs to be reworked already because lowering his numbers isn't a true fix it's a band-aid. As already pointed out he is pretty much balanced around a single jungle item now. If it gets buffed he gets strong if it's nerfed he gets weaker. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being forced into this super tank item build to remain relevant as things get changed throughout next year. He needs to be reworked really badly.
Meep Man (NA)
: Warwick needs a rework anyway. His ultimate is the definition of Abuse Spell. Any new on-hit effect can cause Warwick to become OP. Therefore, Warwick needs to be reworked so his kit can't limit what is in the game/make him have to be nerfed everytime a new on-hit item is added.
It's more than just his ultimate. He is a ridiculously binary champion in general that has needed a rework for a very long time now. You would think if all it took was a slight change to the jungle and a new item to bring him up to a 60% winrate and a 95% ban rate you would put him on top priority for a kit rework. Changing a bunch of numbers is not a fix to these type of champions it's a bandaid that is going to get peeled off the next time something similar happens down the road.
: Warwick is finally a usable champion
That is until people realize that you can still basically do the same things you were doing before with him. These nerfs didn't fix the problem.
: congratz riot warwick is now unuseable
The funny thing is the ulti nerfs did hardly anything to jungle Warwick. Adc's and most mages will still continue to get one shotted by it because the damage nerf is no where significant enough to combat the amount of on hit damage he gets from the jungle item and wit's end alone. The cooldown nerf on his ulti hurt lanewick a lot. The damage nerf just made things harder unless you take smite and build the jungle item anyways. The W nerf is a huge change because it hurts his early clear and his late game team utility a lot. These nerfs did nothing to address the actual problems with Warwick. They need to fix the bug with his ulti that has existed since mid season 3 that allows his ulti damage + on hits to continue through QSS, CC and even death. Lack of counterplay is the issue here.
: Patch 4.21 notes
Since these nerfs to {{champion:19}} basically do nothing to solve the actual issue with that champion which is going to result in him getting nerfed even more can we just rework him already? I'm still not sure why he isn't a top rework priority when all it took was a new item and a slight change to the jungle to make him beyond broken. I would rather see him not nerfed into oblivion until then. :(
: My guess is that they're putting him on the shelf for his rework later (I'm hoping for an early 2015 release on the rework).
[I wouldn't get your hopes up for that]( There has been talk of his rework as far back as the end of season 2 and we mostly get the above response when it is asked about. I'm still extremely upset the kit that was spoiled earlier this year was scrapped. I'm confused how he is still so low on the list when all it took was a new item and slight changes to the jungle to make him ridiculously broken. He needs a rework not a bunch of nerfs.
: Warwick needs a rework; as long as his ult applies on hit effects, it'll be broken as all hell with the new jungle items, especially Skirmishers. His kit is ancient and he needs to be a lot less binary.
This is why I really wanted his rework to happen before something like this came along. I don't get why he isn't a top priority on the rework list when all it takes is a single item and a slight change to the jungle to make him ridiculously broken. The problem with these nerfs is they do not solve his main issue. Since they reverted the nerfs to devourer he is still going to be one shotting squishies even after these nerfs. You nerf him too much he becomes frustrating to play as and an undesirable pick. The real issue with his ult right now is not necessarily the on-hit effects it's the lack of counterplay combo'd with the bugs it currently has. QSS doesn't stop the damage (I swore it did at one point) and neither does disrupiting/CC'ing him out of it. I have even ulti'd and flashed immediately and still got the kill because all 5 ticks of damage still applied long after I was gone. I would honestly rather see them do a mini rework on his ulti before they gut it to tie him over until his rework no one knows when is going to happen and how far off.
: WW nerfs
The W nerf hurts his early clear speed and utility in team fights but that ult nerf doesn't solve the issue we are experiencing right now at all. I do not understand why he isn't a top priority on being reworked right now. Warwick is a binary champion and always has been. Nerfing his numbers is not a fix it's a band-aid until he becomes problematic again.
Tachi (NA)
: Do you have any idea why his splash art is being held, at least? Or is it for these reasons?
They probably want to wait until his relaunch which there is no telling how far that is off. As it currently stands Warwick is the only Alpha phase champion left that hasn't received a new splash (not including Chinese swaps). I wouldn't be so peeved about this if I knew his relaunch was relatively soon. I really hope early - mid 2015.
: Warwick Rework?
Still going to happen (eventually). His new kit is going to require some pretty heavy art resources so it won't be anytime soon. Possibly after the Sion relaunch when some of those resources open up. Like Sion, Warwick is getting a relaunch which is both a kit rework and a VU. Not anywhere near as extreme as Sion though. Rioter in charge of the rework said something about early 2015 at the earliest so it's still a very long ways off.
Meddler (NA)
: Still planned, we pulled ZenontheStoic who was working on Warwick's gameplay onto a new champion that a gameplay designer though, so his work on Warwick's been put on hold until that champ ships.
That's quite depressing to hear. :( I was super pumped for his rework when Zenon spoiled his new kit a few months ago. Now it seems like the rework has been pushed back even further than the "Probably not this year" Zenon gave us on reddit/twitter. *Off to my fiery den I go
: Hi! We have a strong direction on a Warwick kit--he's totally playable and tracking very well internally. However, the kit changes enough that we cannot ship it without new art: new animations, new particle effects, and new sounds. At this point we would be 90% to remaking the champion, and he really needs it. So the new Warwick kit will ship whenever we have the time to give Warwick a full visual update. I would hope that's some time late this year, but no promises.
I hope the proposed kit rework that you posted doesn't change much because I absolutely love it! Can't wait to test it when it eventually hits the PBE. As for the visuals I'm curious on what direction you guys will take him. I'm really hoping to see Warwick transition from a derpy manbeast into something a lot more threatening.
: Next Champions Who Will Get a Kit Rework & a Visual Upgrade
Only confirmed ones I know that are getting a Kit rework with a VU is {{champion:14}} , {{champion:19}}, and {{champion:78}}. I know Riot has some kit tweaks planned for {{champion:35}} , {{champion:26}}, and {{champion:44}}, but I'm not sure if they are rework level. Taric and Zilean kinda need VU's as well.
: Thanks for informing us riot but i heard that sion is going to have a full relaunch, or am i wrong?
I would assume it would definitely be a full relaunch or more since Sion is currently a mess. New art, model, possibly completely different kit and a slight theme shift? With that aside Sion deserves a rework more than anybody right now.
: OOh, please say it's going to be like Fenrir! "Warwick's next 3 attacks deal bonus damage and benefit from increased healing effects. Additionally, Warwick gains bonus attack range for the duration and his attacks will cause him to lunge into melee range if applicable."
Even If the Warwick rework only made him half as fun as Fenrir I would still consider it a success.
: Umm, maybe it's just me but as soon as I read "2% of target maximum health as magic damage with each basic attack" I got real concerned that that is really powerful. I'm all for Warwick being viable, but that is a humongous amount of power isn't it? I get he is supposed to be a bit of a counter against tanks, but this gives him a lot of power over anyone in general. Maybe it's just the numbers that seem scary, but I've been getting a lot of "overtuned" vibe from all this stuff I've been reading about Warwick, and I don't want to see him get released with this and then nerfed hard because he was made to be too strong.
If it was slapped directly onto his current kit probably, but we don't know what's going on with the rest of his new kit number wise. Until more info is posted we can only make assumptions.
: Not like Fiora's at all. Here's the exact passive (and remember this can change still; especially the numbers) Deals 2% of target maximum health as magic damage with each basic attack while healing for 5 (+XX) (half vs minions). Each attack builds one stack of Eternal Thirst, which increases the healing from this effect by 11%. Maximum stacks: 10 Damage capped against monsters to: YY XX currently scales with level from 0.9% bonus health to 1.4% bonus health. Those numbers do look very low, but remember you have tools to multiproc the passive, you have the Eternal Thirst stacks that improve healing, and finally the Q itself has a multiplicative heal amp on it.
Does this mean he doesn't lose stacks when he switches targets (or it dies)? If that's the case I already like this passive more.
: My biggest like about the warwick gameplay changes in progress are that they give him many more important decisions and high moments. He will actually be able to make "big plays," which is really great.
Oh man the tease is real. Too bad it seems so far away.
: Yup! Blood Scent stays (but receives a toggle) and Hungering Strike becomes Hungering Strikes (still with a very similar purpose), but other than that a lot of things will change.
So excited! Can't wait! :)

Firefang Warwick

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