: i am m5 pyke i can say that pyke is not overpowered you can counter him easily here is some ways to counter him are 1) charm is a killer against pyke 2)his q is so easy to counter . you could stand behind minons or predict it 3)if you cc him he is dead 4)and to negate his healling just put wards 5) when you see he has low mana go all in stop trying to nerf any champs becuz you dont know how to counter them let pyke rest his wave clear got fucked so leave my boy alone {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
I'm sorry, but this whole damn game could use a pile of nerfs across the board. Their philosophy used to be nerfs before buffs, because it kept power creep under control, and they've quite literally thrown that out the window. Pyke is absolutely an abomination, disgusting damage and safety, and MASSIVE gold advantages for free.
Xavanic (NA)
: They need to rebalance the scaling of defensive stats first, that's the main reason dmg is so ridiculous since you hit 50% dmg reduction at just 100 armor
They need to re balance how penetration works. It's way too strong in comparison with how resistances are. Also runes are a massive issue with how much damage is available. The biggest mistake this company ever made, was runes reforged. All people wanted was free rune access for everyone, not this convoluted mess of a mastery/rune shitstorm.
: > Look at Tahm for example. Build full tank and rage blade, and that guy is just cancer. No, he doesn't. There is no evidence supporting this. and you have no argument now.
You ever seen that build? Perma stun and can eat you twice in the same fight, it's like slowly and painfully dying a death you can't escape.
: Except Sated Devourer wasn't an issue. It was the combination of Rageblade and Sated Devourer, which were both multiplicative onhit effects. Now league only has 1 multiplicative onhit item, so we don't see any issues. Except with Vayne. An idea I would like to see is Phantom hit every 3 hits, AS cap raised to 3.0, and buffs to stats on Rageblade (+10% AS, +5 AD, +10 AP, +1-2% AS on stack, +2 hybrid pen, +200-300 gold cost).
It's actually incredible how much you have no idea what you're talking about. Phantom hit is not a good mechanic to have. It doesn't mesh well with the balance of this game. It creates balance issues on a multitude of champions. Not just Vayne. Look at Tahm for example. Build full tank and rage blade, and that guy is just cancer. The devs just keep adding and adding damage, and "interesting" things/abilities/runes into the game, and they never balance it because they keep thinking to make new stuff rather than slow down and fix the disaster they created. Everyone memed on Morello for nerfing everything all the time, but he understood for the most part what was healthy for the game and what wasn't. This rune system, certain item passives (Duskblade, Rageblade, old stormrazor just to name a few) certain champions they've made the past like 3 years. The rune system is probably the biggest culprit. It just adds so much god damn free damage on EVERYTHING like it probably increases the damage output of champions by 30% or more with all the extra free damage added.
: im not attacking your rank im stating a fact. it's different when a gold player calls something out for being op and a bronze player does. im not saying your opinions are invalid but the way you view champions and counterplay are twisted in a way that makes you think kennen is op which is objectively wrong
It really doesn't, sorry. This guy is not complaining about any one particular thing, he used Kennen as an example. He straight up described this game in a nutshell for the past two seasons. Getting to the bronze can't complain blah blah blah... no. That's not how this works, you could be bronze, and straight up be terrible at the game, but know the difference between something being fair or not. Sure lots of people in low ranks, and honestly high ranks too, just get salty or are too proud to say, hey you know what? I just suck and got out played and complain about something being broken when they just get beat. In fact, I'd argue people in gold/plat can be just as bad, if not worse than people in lower elo about whining about random OP stuff. This obviously is not always the case, but I've seen in the past in games in plat 1-low diamond mmr where somebody just get smashed top lane for example in a match-up where they counter their opponent, and just go off the rails about how OP their opponent is, when in reality, they aren't.
: Eve? A stun? Pretty sure her E was a double auto that gave attackspeed.
Her earliest edition her E would stun you.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: I have a question: If people cry "damage is too high that even tanks can't tank", then how is it that 250 HP from the Spear is "too much bulk"? Like, those things contradict each other.
Tanks can't tank because they don't have the defensive tools to do so due to the way penetration functions. The problem is, champions like riven and Aatrox, and hell let's throw Darius in aswell. Look at all the damage they do. Have you ever heard the best defense is a good offense? You give them that much damage in their abilities, and throw in something to reduce their cool downs, while simultaneously adding an extra 250 point of damage they can soak... well thats what they mean buy its too much bulk. Its like if you look at some mages now, so many of the items they buy have 200 health or so tagged into them. Look at them late game, they have a huge pile of AP and like 3400 health. That's absurd for the amount of damage they can dish out. TL;DR Them having more HP and giving them that much damage, and lets face it... spear isn't the only item they're buying with HP tagged onto it, they're killing you with the damage output they have, before you get the chance to even put a dent in their hp pool, tank's are useless right now, because unless you feed them, and they get hugely ahead on levels, and even then if they don't close the game out in time, their damage falls off a cliff, they can no longer compete with everyone else's damage once they get penetration. It's just the way the game works right now.
Spoo (NA)
: When you're calculate efficiency you calculate the gold value of the stats your paying for. Sure they're getting a kindle gem out of it. The item is more efficient in terms of the stats that are useful to the people that bought it. But the item is less efficient in terms of the total gold and opportunity cost of acquiring the item. THAT IS HUGE! What you're forgetting is that by making it more expensive the opportunity cost of taking it will balance the item out. I.E. putting 400 more gp into this power spike means that's more gold your not putting in additional items to back this item up. Meanwhile thats 400gp your opponent can put into countering it. Which in turn will balance the ridiculousness of the item. You get Spear of Shojin. I have black cleaver(3400 gp from SoS probably competes directly with this item in terms of slot) and am 100gp away from Ninja tabi. Maybe not a full counter I have 20 less AD just as much static CDR, but more damage in terms of armor shred. In turn I've also tacked on mitigation. My item is useful 100% of the time. Your item is only useful when your ult is available. Compared to old essence reaver which I may have barely finished my cleaver. Even if you bought it just for the passive, that 15 more AD and a passive you had 1-2 waves sooner. The reality of this item is the 3400gp item cost is near Trinity Force cost. EVEN IF its as broken as you think you're paying for the power spike. If this item is a power spike, playing against a champion with this should be no different than playing against anyone else in a power spike. Respect it or die. But to say its broken...I don't think so. Not in the slightest. 3400gp is more than enough time to send 1-2 ganks this way to punish the lane, create a CS/level lead, and make this item inconsequential.
What he's trying to say is, theres a select few champions, that this item is just absolutely bonkers on, and in the grand scheme of things 3400 gold for an item such as SoS is nothing. granted its one of the more expensive items, its literally EVERYTHING those champions need in one slot. That's what hes trying to say. The passive in conjunction to the stats it gives, it's not hurting you at all to be 400 gold behind an opponent when the item you have is just a ton stronger that the opponents item and a component part of an item. You also can't justify oh just gank them as a way to balance out the item. That logic is ridiculous. I fundamentally feel that you should have options to deal with champions or play styles in any situation, unless you've been heavily counterpicked. Unfortunately the balance team doesn't feel the same way. They're more focused on how much fun something is to PLAY AS not how it feels to PLAY AGAINST. I'm not trying to say that champions just shouldn't be strong, or better than others at certain points, I just feel as though you should have options other than just gank it. Things need to have windows of power, and need to have windows of weakness.
: Idk man youre a higher elo than me but is that really the case? Im just not seeing it
Yes it is, If jungle exp/gold is low, and spawn times don't reflect that... unless you're udyr or yi, but even they get more from ganking lots of times anyways, farming your jungle and not ganking is just situational at best. Like imagine this, lots of times with the absurd damage nowadays, you can walk into lane and get flash 100% of the time nearly, or if not that flash and a kill if the gank is performed properly, IE not rushing it and waiting for the exact right time to engage the fight. Turret plating to me, seems to have made this issue even worse, you get more gold if you kill a laner in conjunction to the kill gold. So add the extra gold incentive, and the exp from lane minions/the kill if you happen to get it, it just.. makes farming the jungle a terrible idea most of the time, not to mention with the game being so snowbally and gank heavy, every time you farm too much, you're leaving a lane open to a gank and not being there to counter it, or at least missing the opportunity to gank a different lane if you happen to be too farm away from the lane being ganked.
: Do you people really want every single champion to be useless? You are killing the game
No, I want the game to not function like a hair trigger when trying to fight people. As it sits, 1 single rotation kills somebody very nearly if not entirely. Why can't we have real fights again? Whats wrong with out-smarting someone? whats so outsmarted about getting oneshot by zed?
: But his spell is insanly overpowered against all ranged champs? isnt that enough? shoud he be unbeatable? he already has only a rlly small ammount of counterplay possibilitys. It would be just fair to either make his jump a skillshot (10s cd if he misses), make windwall to a parrey for ranged or delete his shield. That would bring him back to the same niveau that every other champ has. Why is Yasuo always treated specially?
: And what is wrong with Mordekaiser and Rakan and Shen and Vi? Why does he have a shield that regenerates in combat????? Malphites doesn't? As far as I know any other passive shield in the game you don't get for doing absolutely nothing, does not just randomly pop up in combat unless item effect (what item that actually is, I don't know). Yet this dumb champion can just [describes an action which contradicts my previous sentence] and get a shield and stops ignite from killing him, just because [they are doing the action that is definitely not 'doing absolutely nothing']. Yes I'm friggin salty. I am so tired of this game. They don't balance anything, just buff stuff and don't care about player experience. This live balance team and the champion design teams should be ashamed of themselves for this 4+ year old champion that this new team was definitely responsible for. Take a great strategic game and go turn it into some other game like call of duty, no skill needed, just use the game controls until someone dies. Great gameplay. /rant
Mordekaiser is pretty much REQUIRED to be in combat to get his shield, and his shield requires him to do something, and if you know how shen works, and how vi works, you'll know they are required to perform an action. Rakans functions exactly as malphites. Each of those champs dont get a shield for just walking around on top of all the other features they have. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. Literally not ONE of those shields functions like yasuo. And I was speaking of steraks and hexdrinker, if you actually don't have the game knowledge enough to know what they do, then that's your deal.
: Because he would just be a squishy melee champ without any defensive steroids, which is par for the course for any other melee champ that fights. Irelia has damage reduction, Riven has CC on demand and a shield, Jax has his E and R, Yi can damage reduce on W and go untargetable, Pantheon has his passive and W for CC and another block. Fiora has her W and self sustain... Yasuo has a single long cooldown spell that doesn't even do anything against melee attacks and a passive shield that can easily be poked away before an engage. If it comes up through means other than his ult then he deserves to have it. You need to move quite a lot for it to regenerate naturally.
He already has the shield to start the fight, and then if he ults hey look, it refreshes. The point I was trying to make.. Hes insanely mobile, already has the shield to begin with, and then there is windwall. Why why does him just walking around in combat let the shield regen? why is he allowed EVERYTHING. He has one glaring weakness that can just get removed by his team, and that is he is awful early on, and even then he isnt that awful because he can dash around the lane like a crazy guy. What more does he need?
Rioter Comments
Jamaree (NA)
: Probably not, because it isn't a complete failure and people are hardcore nostalgia glasses and forgetting the problems the old system had.
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=iHE0TMLu,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-12-18T23:49:01.500+0000) > > Probably not, because it isn't a complete failure and people are hardcore nostalgia glasses and forgetting the problems the old system had. It actually is kind of a colossal failure. All it did was inject so much damage into the game that we have what we have now. Damage was already on the rise when they did this, and it sent it over the top. Masteries should not have mini passives that gives shields, and just free damage on top of your abilities, and if they do, it should be small % increases or small flat increases, not huge damage additions such as Dark Harvest or Conqueror. To think the old system was perfect is a mistake, what most people wanted was to just make runes free for everyone instead of them being the games IP dump. The old system as outline in a post made by OP made it so you could literally have a page for any stat in the game that you wanted. You could run a complete AD page, complete AP, mana regen, MR, Health, Armor. you know... stats, not these glorified mini items you just get for picking in a tree. Why is there a mini hexdrinker passive? Why is scorch there? Why can you get stopwatch for free? Why can you get a set of boots for free? Don't get me started on Kleptomancy. These trees are just free shit on top of free shit. I'd have to guess if masteries and runes reverted to season 1/2 versions, you'd notice an almost 30-40% damage reduction straight across the board. There is all kinds of issues with this game, but damage to me, is the most important one.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeromatsu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6hF9eWd8,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-11-25T09:05:02.548+0000) > > There were no keystone masteries in the old runes system... One of the reasons it was healthier. If a champion was strong it was because of it's kit, not because a certain keystone was beyond broken on it. > > Thunderlords decree was the first iteration of this bullshit. Just bring back old runes and old masterys (those that only gave some passive stats where you could invest 30 points how you wanted) Dude you are talking the old old runes, we have already switched systems at least twice :P But the reason i personally didnt like the first mastery/rune system was that it was just stats, much like the rune pages and it was filled with pitfalls and bad choices too. Everyone had their cookie cutter pages and absolutely no variety existed, it was much the same for the second system where **every** single assassin and almost ****every**** single mage would roll thunderlord and a handful would go deathfire grasp. Now we have electrolute, dark harvest, comet, aery, glacial agument, unsealed spellbook and even aftershock appearing in the midlane, diversity does exist for runes at least. As for champion vs rune balance...... its true that champions have been broken by having too much synergy with one rune or another, however many cases where a champ remains standing for too long now as compared to before is just that riot refuses to nerf stuff x) Like take malzahar for instance, he was pretty much insanely broken right from the update in the mage rework, but after being hit with the nerfhammer 6 times he was still going strong due to poor design but after that riot just didnt touch him at all. And he ended up dominating in all of season 7 as well. In the past things got nerfed much quicker if i recall, we didnt have something like that with malz sitting at the top for an entire season happening.
That's the thing, nobody wants these keystones. You ever sit there and wonder... hmmm how'd all of a sudden this character be able to melt my face? just go ahead and point to this abomination of runes. I have no idea why someone thought that the best solution was to make a combination of free damage boosters, that aren't minuscule (i.e the last point in offense tree of old) like I'm talking season 2 here, was 3%... 3% across the board increase to for easy maths sake an extra 100 damage into your rotation (obviously its WAY higher than just 100 damage) JUST for casting abilities that you would cast anyways. Nothing different in play before hand, you still cast those abilities, they're just 3% stronger, instead, you get an extra huge amount of damage just off the keystone alone, never mind things like scorch, or coup de grace or things like that.. the amount of free damage just front loaded into the game via this rune setup is just astronomical, no wonder damage is so much higher. Talking about champion synergy with this rune or that rune will be there regardless of the system, even the old mastery pages, had issues, look at cho'gath back in the day, there was a mastery that gave health and mana on minion kill, and combine that with his passive, he had insane sustain. The point is, no system is going to be perfect, so you need to choose the lesser of the evils, and here we are, we have diversity... at the cost of wanting to blow your brains out because you get killed by anybody seemingly in less than 2 seconds. The game has become who blows their load first, instead of who outsmarts and out wits their opponent.
: They said non-kit damage is too high. > Damage from champion kits hasn't changed much over time
"They said non-kit damage is too high." Compare the 2011 masteries to the abomination they have for "runes" right now, the highest mastery in the offense tree gave you a whopping 3% damage increase. That was your highest tier mastery in that tree. Now you have things like conqueror and electrocute?? No shit non kit damage is too high... look what they implemented... almost every rune choice you have, adds some kind of offensive power to it, and the lack of any early defense stats... just throws damage through the roof. Masteries should be little bonuses and small percentage based bonuses to get you through the early game, now you got things giving you access to like 10x the damage tools we used to have, which creates this one-shot twitch reaction game play we have. I barely play anymore because of this crap, I played on the weekend with my friends, and I played zed, and I kept making jokes that my lane opponent can't play the game because they would show up to lane get instantly shoved out or killed. Where is the potential to come back from a death or a poor trade? You can't. You just concede the lane and hope your team can clean up the mess, Zed isn't the only offender, look at wukong, every time electrocute is off CD he just 100-50 or more with 2 abilities and an auto, trades are more of just all in attempts now, there's no such thing as really whittling away your opponent slowly anymore, unless you're just basic attacking, because as soon as your abilities get involved you likely to just outright kill something. It's just crazy, meddler and the balance team have no idea what they are doing at all, they just throw this and that in the game thinking, hey that'll be fun to play, not thinking how it affects the rest of the game, items are stagnant, there's no differential in builds unless you want a single niche item to deal with something specific, you just build the same cookie cutter shit, however this has always been a problem, and without access to early defenses to deal with shit like talon or zed or whomever, they just roll you over and make it so you can't play anymore the second you miss-step. It's not fun, and I'm not sitting here saying you should get all kinds of chances to come back, no, I'm just saying that the game shouldn't be decided in 10 minutes. I don't want dota length games, i just want there to be some thought process introduced again.
: It just takes a little more effort to live there is all. If you show people you actually care when you try to help them they seem to listen pretty well. A lot of people like to be brutally honest about stuff, but from everything I've seen that doesn't get you anywhere quickly, and legitimately being nice to people does. Be the person you want to have on your team.
The problem I have is, is when people that are actually horrible, won't listen due to sheer stubbornness. You could be as nice as you want, but their ego will refuse to let them come down to earth, and not only do you wind up with someone who won't listen, you also wind up with someone that isn't playing with your team. That situation right there causes a lot of toxicity.
: Lol I started when Shen and akali were new...Still only level 37 lol also having all the champs the "rewards" for leveling up are basically pointless.
> [{quoted}](name=Lios Ashenblade,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5V57inIF,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-12-12T18:19:13.383+0000) > > Lol I started when Shen and akali were new...Still only level 37 lol also having all the champs the "rewards" for leveling up are basically pointless. Yeah exactly, I hardly even want to play a game a day anymore, between the rune changes that I'm honestly not a fan of in the slightest, as well as I don't care about leveling up, I get NOTHING out of it, I have too much blue essence as it is, and the essence emporium was a crock of shit. There's nothing even remotely appealing to me in there.
Ahris (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zIwfdEny,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-11-29T11:51:24.206+0000) > > I'm sorry you got counter-built. I forgot that was one of the most basic strat when it comes to building against your laner. then i counter built with magic pen % and flat. And still cant burst? More like design problem from league side. MR is to protect against dps mages, not against burst mages.
I'm just replying here because it's easier. Man reading your comments makes me want to bash my head against a wall. I'm not even kidding. MR is to stop burst mages from instagibbing you, and also to slow the rate of which you get burned down by DPS mages. There is no protect against this or protect against that. Sure stacking MR is much more efficient vs burst oriented champions, and as such once it is built you must adjust your play style accordingly. Ahri is also not a tank buster. If you want a tank buster I'll refer you to someone such as brand. Ahri is more an assassin in playstyle than a burst oriented mage. Also how the hell is zoe a better ahri?? They do really different things.
: My hate towards your kind as an actual support player is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
And I hate you filthy enchanter players. That is the actual cancer here. Idm playing vs Brand or some shit because if they mess up, you get a free kill. Enchanters versions of messing up are oops I shielded a minion. Good thing i have all this peel to disengage fights.
: I'm not trying to pretend adding a bit of armor to turrets breaks the game, just trying to explain why designers might be careful about buffing them. I totally agree with you that there's a better middle ground.
I feel as though they could be in need of an attack speed buff to be honest, I don't overly care that they die fast, as, as the game progresses you're supposed to be the ones defending them, and as such, right now they just offer you no help in the case. They do too little damage, yet the damage ramp works well, however, seeing as they do so little in most instances, if they had more attack speed, even if it was only against champions, that right there would solve a lot of these early turret dives we are seeing if they aren't played to perfection. If someone dives me and doesn't play it properly, then sure I may die due to being outnumbered, but I had better be taking at least one person with me, which seldom happens anymore.
: I tend to agree with you. It is true that BE (which isn't necessarily a reward, but rather a currency like IP that you can use to unlock a rewards) tends to drop in big chunks. This was an intentional change on our part. We think it'll make the system feel a lot better in the long run, especially after everyone gets used to it. Either way, we're just gonna have to wait and see.
The problem I have, is as someone that has all the champions, this change doesn't do anything for me and feels rather... shall I say, underwhelming? I get all these shards that effectively do nothing but give me a currency that I essentially have no use for anymore, and all the while these emotes, and icons and all this stuff is being released as purchase-able by rp only. I can appreciate the IP chroma sales, however as someone that buys a skin because I like the look of the skin, why would I want to change it's colour?
Rioter Comments
Zerenza (NA)
: Yes he can one shot, twitch stealth's himself, positions himself behind his opponents or, searches for a target who's alone. Twitch pops his ult when he see's someone and attacks them from 850 range, without revealing himself first. Here's the thing though, twitch gains attack speed from Stealth, a lot of it about 50% if maxx level. This means that if he has an Infinity Edge he's going to be doing A LOT of damage really fast from a range that's waaaay to for for most squishy champs to do much about it, the fact his damage is already starting to be dealt the same instance that he reveals himself is kind of strong. And this is why i want him to be revealed when he Ult's or have a larger reveal range on his Q. Evelynn doesn't have a single ability that will deal damage while she's stealthed, she can W you then find a way to hit you with her Q,E or R, which upon casting any of them you reveal yourself. That's good stealth balance, you have atleast 1 second of time to do something about her before she kill's you, there's counterplay. Rengar literally telegraphs who he's going to jump on and not a single ability reaches outside his stealth range. This is the balance that a less safe melee champion has to have to make their stealth fair, i just want twitch to be held to the same standard.
Yeah and unless his team does their job, if he pops out behind the enemies, unless they are cc'd, the dude just evaporates because their team just jumps on him for a free kill. Yes twitch is strong, but in no way is he some god tier thing that nobody can mess up. You ever see a bad twitch? they look like idiots popping out of stealth and getting popped instantly.
: 6000 people who never watch pros filled out a pick'em because there was a mission for it. On the other hand, lots of people were predicting TSM getting to quarters, many had LZ over SSG, others predicted RNG over SKT, and of course NA fans thought C9 would beat WE.
C9 Very well could have beaten WE. Went to game 5.
Daunt (EUNE)
: They wouldn't be bronze then.
Explain further. Someone can have extensive knowledge on say hockey for example, yet do not play in the NHL or any pro league, or coach or do anything of the nature. Why is that? possible because when it comes time to execute their knowledge, there is some kind of disconnect. The same can be applied to League.
Elikain (EUNE)
: I love how you overestimate your own knowledge of the game. It's the people who are being payed to balance the game that don't know shit but you, a lonely Bronze player, that has all that secret knowledge and is able to obtain it from just a few hours. You don't need to research anything or cross-reference the data, you just can feel what's wrong and are pinpoint accurate. We don't need a biased player balancing the game because you'd run it to the ground in a single patch. It's very easy to remove something that's bothering you - just gut it in half or delete it. But that's now how you actually balance the game and make it fair for every role.
people in bronze can actually have some good ideas, albeit not all of them. Some people are there because they panic when thye have to think fast, or the just have bad motor skills, or any number of reasons. Yes a lot of them are not the most intelligent game knowledge wise, but there are a lot that are fine in that respect
mcsly720 (NA)
: D4 Smurf lf duo or flex
i'm game i plat 5
: Maybe take off your "everyone just likes to bitch" goggles and realize maybe people are calling b.s. cause she is getting hotfixed in a state multiple champs have been in that we are told to "wait and see" as they are held off till next patch. It's double stand b.s. that annoys me, not that she is getting nerfed. It was obvious she shouldn't have went live like this, same as Zac, but why are they suddenly different when there are STILL champs that are in the gutter way worse than Zac is now, but Zac gets a hot fix buff, and Ivern is still waiting for his pbe nerfs to go through. Sej though? Naw hotfix instantly.
Zac is not really that frustrating, at least in my opinion, Maokai on the other hand is god awful to play against.
Rioter Comments
: I dont' get what you mean? Aren't Hyper-carries safe? {{champion:222}}'s rocket range makes her almost untouchable without a severe gap closer. {{champion:18}} has really high base range come late game and reliable self-peel. {{champion:10}} despite not being a traditional marksman follows the trend of a hypercarry and she's hyper safe as well. {{champion:96}}'s range buff from her W makes him a pretty safe champion as well. Are you being serious or sarcastic? I don't understand :(
Kog maw is not a safe champion, as he has literally no options if someone gets in range of him other than try and out dps the guy or try and kite and hope to hell his team helps peel him.
Sasogwa (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BsfElX6I,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-16T10:59:47.494+0000) > > and normal games will make you learn more than ranked games > > kappa Norms actually do learn you a whole lot of things. And norms have a mmr of their own, it is a good checking of what your skill can get you to. As a mostly norm player, I knew I could easily go into ranked when I was matched consistently with people above my league in norms (checking lolnexus or sthg). And that's why without doing a lot of rankeds at all ( I gotta have 5-10 times more normals than ranked) I got into diamond without much problems.
Normals are a place to practice champion mechanics, as people won't take macro game seriously in the slightest.
Meritas (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Flitchee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vsV4NN1V,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-03-12T18:39:43.458+0000) > > If you're a silver 1, and have the mmr of a gold 1 player or something like that for whatever reason, Why should the system match you vs other silver players? Why aren't you ranked Gold 1 then? That's the whole point of this thread.
Like i said in a previous post, the ranking system si garbage, your actual rank has nothing to do with matchmaking.
: I know how MMR functions and just because a Silver plays gets on a winstreak doesn't make them a Platinum or even a Gold player. MMR is effected by wins and loses so basically anyone could be carried a few games and have better MMR.
Ah but see here, this is exactly what you tried to tell me in a previous post. If that silver player reaches gold 1 on a win streak, by your logic, they deserve that rank, even if they go right back to silver the next week. You are now just contradicting yourself.
: I don't think you understand how skills = elo = rank. MMR can show how good you're doing at the moment. People go on tilt and get lower MMR, does that mean they didn't *earn* their rank?
MMR working as intended then, The ranked system functions off of consistency, if you can't consistently play at a rank, then no, you do not deserve that rank. Btw, ELO is MMR. If you play at a diamond level game in and game out, theres no reason you shouldnt be diamond. Now if 1 out of every say 5-10 games you play at a diamond skill level, does that mean you are a diamond player? No.
: you're right it means nothing, but its not fair to the player to have to consistently be paired up with gold 3~plat 5 players in order to enter gold 5. it makes 0 sense. that player should at least be already situated at g3.
While that should be how it works, division skipping only happens when you have exceedingly higher mmr than what is necessary for that division. I don't know exactly the system for it, but I'm not a fan of the tier system. I don't think it functions properly.
: Most people who get to their rank earned it no matter what their MMR is. What you just said still applies to Silvers and Golds. They also can get on a winstreak lol.
Sraeg2013 (EUNE)
: You would be surprised. When I got on a really bad losing streak in Plat 5 last season, I ended up playing with Silvers. And yes, the ladder system is a "feel good" overlay garbage developed by Riot. An addon to the ELO system, like a parasite. Nothing more, nothing less.
Why downvote this guy? He's 100% correct. The ladder system means nothing. Silver 1 50 lp or gold 2 50 lp can have the same mmr, and thus be matched into the same games. Who has the low and who has the high? be my guest to take a stab at it, either the silver 1 can be much higher mmr, or the gold 2 can have much lower mmr.
: I don't give a f*ck how high that Silver 1's mmr is. They should *never* be with/against Platinums in ranked.
Imagine that lp and your actual rank means fuck all. Because it does mean fuck all. It has absolutely nothing to do with your mmr, or your match made games. If you are being matched with platinum players in ranked as a silver 1, i can assure you they are either on tilt, or are quite frankly boosted, or got on a lucky win streak and do not actually deserve to be there. I also want to mention what you said about mmr. If you're a silver 1, and have the mmr of a gold 1 player or something like that for whatever reason, Why should the system match you vs other silver players? That would not be good match quality, as if it were to do that, you should theoretically never lose that game. Like i said, imagine your rank and lp mean nothing when it comes to match making.
: I'm not arguing my dear. I'm just pointing out that the argument is exaggerated. If you must insult or criticize something, do be as accurate as you can?
Where am i exaggerating? can khazix not almost instantly kill you? Does vi not have loads of cc and damage? and yes while the blind is quite annoying, its a small radius with a mediocre slow at best, definitely not what I'd considering game breaking in a gank situation. A teamfight however is a much different story. You are just salty that was i said was rather accurate. I've played quite a number of games on graves before his rework and thereafter his rework. I could sit here all day and list abilities off of any champion and explain what they do and make it seem over powered. If graves damage is your issue, would you mind explaining to me what exactly you want him to do? Go ahead, I'll wait, because as soon as you gut the damage you know what you end up with? a completely useless champion that is in need of a rework. Graves is not in need of another rework, His damage is high because he needs to be in melee range to get it off. He's a champion in which a good thought process is required to play properly, he doesn't have any kind of oops buttons like other champions, once hes in, hes in, there is not getting out without some serious outplays and if he goes in without being nearly 100% certain of the result, he will just be a free kill, and more than likely a free objective due to him being played in the jungle role. He cant choose the target he auto attacks, he has to hit what is in front of him, which is a rather awful feeling when someone dances you in a minion wave or hides behind a tank. To play against graves, you need to actually use your brain, its like fighting fiora. You can't just play like you would any old game, you need to out rotate the fellow, be unpredictable, and play as a team, Graves is not the best teamfighter, he relies heavily on skirmishes, or 1 v 1, or any kind of silly fight especially if his team does not have proper engagement tools. Those kinds of engagements favor him greatly as he is usually better at stack checking, and has decent burst. Where you see the wheels fall off is when teamfights role around, or if his team gets behind, or if he does not have a very good frontline. He is actually quite feast or famine in a sense. He needs to be melee range to do what he needs to do, and he needs to be ahead to do it without just dying.
: Excuse me, where did you see the "lowest range"? 550 is THE average range for ranged champions. We only have Cait, Varus, Jinx's Fishbones, Mid/Late Tristana, Kog's W and Twitch with ult who have higher range, and for 1/2 of them it's situational. >her brand of sustained high damage against single targets is not enough Where have you been for the last 3 months? :(
: >almost instantly kill you ... >damage lol >not like vi where he has cc and damage out of the wazoo Once agian >damage Also he does have cc on his smoke nade.. Slows (If I remember right) along with blind CC=Limits ability to contribute to fight. (OR limits ability to escape) Tell me your as useful when your blinded as when your not. >can just fly on top of you Does have dashes, dashes that give you armor/mr (Once again off of memory) *Edit Formatting
You're just picking here, you can take bits and pieces of anything you ever read and make it sound as contradictory as you'd like to what the person was trying to get through in the first place.
: I don't gank with graves I just ult from the bush and collect Elo. on a serious note. graves problem is that hes supposed to build some crit but he doesn't. my idea. make his autos and spells do more damage with crit so he doesn't invest in armor pen because armor pen works too well on him.
Armor pen is always going to be strong on AD casters, this is nothing new. And you know what helps amplify crit? armor pen.
DeusVult (NA)
: Graves is by and far the best jungler atm. The actual jungle tier in this patch goes: God Tier - {{champion:104}} S - {{champion:427}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:107}} A - {{champion:60}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:64}} B - Off Meta junglers
No he is not. Is he good? sure. Is he as strong as you claim? god no. if you're getting dove by him, you're playing the dive wrong, infact, if you get ganked by him at all, you play the gank wrong, don't try and fight him, all you need to do is back up and let him waste time. He won't get strong if you don't let him get strong, hes not like lee sin where he can just force you to be ganked, and hes not like khazix where he can just fly on top of you and almost instantly kill you, and hes not like vi where he has cc and damage out the wazoo. all he has is damage, good clear and strong countergank potential. Graves actually has an awful time initiating a gank unless you are in such a bad position that you are going to die no matter who ganks you.
: So what is the counter play to Graves?
If you really want to know? Don't play like a dumbass. Have you ever seen a Graves do fuck all if hes behind? No? me neither. You know how he gets ahead? people don't respect his damage, and you know what? he cant physically GET it off on you in an reliable way, he can't reliably hit both procs of his q unless YOU let him do it. Sure his ult has damage, and is easy enough to land, and yes his auto attacks are strong, but you know what? to get full effectiveness out of his kit, he needs to be in essentially melee range. And how many times to you actually fight graves long enough for his e stacks to get capped? I'm actually curious because he either dies before he can, or he kills you befor5e he needs them. There is very seldom i time i've ever gotten capped stacks without having some to begin with.
LankPants (OCE)
: His W is an amazing ganking tool and his ganks with Red buff are top tier. You can't run from a red buff Graves and he can 100-0 you easily. He's an amazingly strong ganker as well as the other things you listed, the game just currently pressures him towards leaning on his ganks. This is also why he's incredibly broken.
Hes an excellent counterjungler, and an excelent counter ganker. The only way graves can actually begin a gank, is with a laner with CC, or if the enemy is so out of position a soraka could gank them effectively. Sure he has burst, but you know what? he has no way of actually getting it off unless **_you_** let him do it. I hate it when people bitch about hid abilities hurting them, but ultimately, you let him get a wall q, or you just outright stood in his q, yeah his ult hurts, but you know what? its only damage. Graves is not a great ganker by any means, yeah his w is really really strong, but it doesnt just instantly let you get a gank off.
Dormidon (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Covert Ops Gnar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BKQiWLMy,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-02-05T06:14:19.177+0000) > > Atmas impaler *cough Missed this item. I think in current meta even pre nerf atma (if they return it) wouldnt be a problem.
Are you kidding me? Like are you actually kidding me? all you'd see out of a melee AD top laner would be a titanic rush followed immediately by atmas into full tank, or throwing in a cleaver too depending on the champion. If this item was around in the games current state, it would be absolutely bonkers, just solely because of titanic, you'd be double dipping damage from hp, and guess what? a game with absurd damage to begin with in this state, suddenly skyrockets. No thank you.
Anidan (NA)
: I think the issue is more or less that this game is still in its transitional phase to get away from its roots as being a DotA follow-up but "without the BS." The problem being that they kept some of what they would've called BS but none of its counters (point-and-click rapid burst, but without items like Eul's Scepter, Pipe of Insight, BKB, and some of the spells available to heroes to counter burst). So now everyone has to wait until League finally takes the rest of its champions to the game's niche identity to complete its separation from DotA. Linear designs are perfectly, 100% fine - not poorly designed by nature... as long as you implement proper counters, which League did not, while DotA has.
I just want to point out, most linear champions i have zero problems with, especially annie. Now hear me out, annie as a whole should never be a very hard champion to play against. She is one of the most telegraphed champions in the game, meaning you know exactly what shes going to do, and it what order. You know what counters annie? either some bullshit ability like windwall, (not windwall specifically, important detail, just using the ability as an example.) or longer ranged champions. The reason people get upset with annie is, somebody always feeds her, and the somebody is always playing someone that relies on mobility, which annie only has a problem dealing with if they are a bad player. She beats most mobile champions, and she beats lower ranged champions, and she has a huge amount of burst. That is what she does. Then you look at someone such as Garen. the guy has one option, and one option only. the problem is, he builds full tank with cleaver, and still does as much damage as you, and you know what? he's completely unkillable, he is THE stat check champion, there is no two ways about it. He is the one champion that is not op, but in all aspects is op. He's mostly useless to his team, which is why hes pseudo balanced, but otherwise hes a nightmare. He has little options while fighting you, and you have little options while fighting him. and league does have counter measures to this, but people refuse to buy them. Zhonyas, QSS Banshees, and edge of night are all some examples.
Parasom (NA)
: Your plan to make LCS exciting doesn't work...
The problem with your argument is not the first blood tower gold that is causing this issue. Its a myriad of reasons, the gold itself makes fuck all of a difference. The issue at hand is, once you lose the first tower, the map begins to unravel. This causes you to lose vision control of your own jungle, and with damage being so ridiculous, gaining it back becomes very hard because you get exploded for leaving your safe zone. Not to mention the low quality of vision nowadays, like for instance, if you look back at old lcs games, or tournament games, any come from behind wins, or game turn arounds were done by lighting the map up and avoiding fighting. With the low amount of vision, you are bound to walk into somebody, or find yourself in an awkward position eventually. The changes over the last couple seasons were all a factor to this. Reducing vision to make supports not feel like walking ward bots, even though they are essentially the only class that buys sightstone in random pub games, and they are only limited to 3 wards and 1 pink, which in essence is little to no vision, and you constantly need to recall to refill the charges. Adding keystones, and pumping masteries with just outright flat damage increases across the board was another factor, and then now with most assassins being too high risk for a much lower reward, and having adcs not being necessary for tower killing anymore, and the games ending before they can take over the games, just snowballed into what we have now. The way to combat this begins with towers, and making them have higher resistances, and either more damage, or more AS, and have the towers past tier 1 be stronger and stronger as you take them down. there is not logical reason for nexus towers to be the same strength as tier 1 towers, the next step is re-evaluate vision. Why do i need an item slot for a pink ward? or a ward in general for that matter. Their trinket system was not what people wanted, however the first iteration was completely fine, and essentially similar to what people wanted. Both yellow upgrades was the most balanced thing the game ever had for vision, and they went and shit all over that for no reason. Nobody bought blue trinket, so they thought, better overhaul the whole thing instead of fixing that one trinket to do something else. The third step, is to lower damage, and retool how keystones and masteries work in general. Masteries should not be your go to damage tools. They should be a choice between a handful of things, and they should not be an extra passive ability. they should just be passive stat games, and should not have any kind just extra damage added to them. I don't have a problem with damage increases, like the 5% for 2.5% even though that is kind of a silly trade off, it should not be, your abilities deal more damage on top of what they say in the tooltip. Things like deathfire touch are almost like hidden power, a thing they were quite against at one point.
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