: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 13
A few quick questions: 1. When will we be getting updates on AP Bruiser items that were promised years ago and specifically were not implemented in the middle of season 9 because it was not an opportune time, but for some reason are not being tested this preseason. A Rioter, maybe you, I don't remember said the internal testing and the PBE testing were going well? 2. Any time frame on {{champion:9}} and {{champion:106}} Reworks? 3. {{champion:13}} has still proven time and time again to be unhealthy and Meta defining, will we see another Rework or atleast some substantial nerfs until a new small kit update since this one is not working out? 4. How do you think {{champion:131}} is fairing with her E and R swap? 5. So {{champion:429}} is still a dead champion and one major way to fix her is by making slows reduce her hop range instead of slowing her attack speed like they currently do. I feel if this change went through then she would have a chance of being balanced, but currently slows hurt her far too much.
Meddler (NA)
: Nothing immediately planned. Right now we want to give the post Worlds buffs she got more time to soak. Could be open to a small scale update to address some gameplay issues at some point, but nothing scheduled at present.
Just make slows reduce her jump range instead of reduce her attack speed. Fixed, your welcome no charge.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 6
A few quick questions: 1. When will we be getting updates on AP Bruiser items that were promised years ago and specifically were not implemented in the middle of season 9 because it was not an opportune time, but for some reason are not being tested this preseason. A Rioter, maybe you, I don't remember said the internal testing and the PBE testing were going well? 2. Any time frame on {{champion:9}} and {{champion:106}} Reworks? 3. {{champion:13}} has still proven time and time again to be unhealthy and Meta defining, will we see another Rework or atleast some substantial nerfs until a new small kit update since this one is not working out?
: Ryze would be super ultima broken 9000 if this was in the game. Thank god.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=t2L2RUA4,comment-id=000300000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-25T18:45:48.060+0000) > > RoA gives 100 AP so actually a ton of AP and Rylias gives 90 AP. Those are the highest AP items in the game outside of Deathcap, Seraphs, and Spellbinder. So they do not gimp you damage hard at all. Archangels, Ludens, Liandries, GLP, and Proto Belt are a bunch of items that give around that amount and have additional effects adding damage and/or ratios. If you go at Archangels for having 50 AP don't forget RoA is 60 and doesn't give AP for every mana item including itself. RoA and Rylais are good items but just do not compete with something like Ludens where you get 20% CDR, 90 AP, and an additional AP ratio giving more mana. The opportunity cost is just having AP + Health.
I think you need to read item passives before posting further
: Ok, but then we have a bunch of high AP items that also pack a decent amount of health. Some of them already in all those champion's builds.
There needs to be an equivalent of Black Cleaver(maybe not shred, but atleast percentage penetration) since building Void is entirely offensive and makes AP Bruisers too squishy.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=t2L2RUA4,comment-id=0003000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-25T17:48:41.606+0000) > > Ok, but then we have a bunch of high AP items that also pack a decent amount of health. Some of them already in all those champion's builds. Then how are they not AP Bruisers or at least very similar? If someone is investing in RoA and Rylais they're severely gimping their burst and are probably an AP Bruiser.
RoA gives 100 AP so actually a ton of AP and Rylias gives 90 AP. Those are the highest AP items in the game outside of Deathcap, Seraphs, and Spellbinder. So they do not gimp you damage hard at all.
Kazekiba (NA)
: >AP bruiser items melee only Well fuck {{champion:50}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:13}} I guess.
Ayanleh (EUW)
: Why are you not making AP bruiser items? You can easily solve mages abusing it by making it melee only like steraks..
Because it is too much for Riot to focus on a difficult problem. They have promised that they would work on these items for years, but any small inconvenience and they just ice the community out of updates until we all complain enough again and recieve yet another empty promise.
AIQ (NA)
: Hey Meddler, Gameplay wise... Months ago you said that you'd implement a {{champion:102}} QOL buff. Scaling with Elder late. What happened that this didn't work out? Could Shyvana Gain fury while dead? Bugs... {{champion:145}} Has that super annoying healing bug, can someone just disable her voice line until it's fixed? {{champion:19}} has a slew of bugs, the largest is his W and losing his bonus stats due to having a healthy target between him and his hunted target. Any chance that's being looked into? Will NB be back this year? I'd like to throw out a suggestion for a mini game in it. Dragonpocalypse: basics are teams fight dragons only starting at 5 for every 1 they take down 2 stronger ones take their place after 30 seconds an Elder spawns that basically is there to end the round faster. Team to survive the longest wins. In preseason hows AP Bruisers items looking? Edit: How's {{champion:80}} doing from your perspective?
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=hLGAeHTA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-23T16:35:31.075+0000) > Could Shyvana Gain fury while dead? I've asked this before and I don't remember which Rioter replied, but they pretty much rudely said that Shyvanna is unique because she doesn't gain her Ultimate during her death, and that she would just fade into the vast amount of champions in the game if she gained her Ultimate while dead. Absolutely ridiculous since this means if you respawn and try to defend base you literally can't do anything.
Solle (NA)
: Honestly, what can they do directly to TP? Nerf the cooldown again? Make other summoners stronger would be the option but idk if they're gonna do that
A while ago they discussed possible changing it from a summoner spell to an item. They did not specify for sure what the item would be. Like would it be an active on a completed item, or would it be a consumable. Also one way imo that it could stay a summoner without offering way too much like it does currently is by making it not usable until 10 minutes into the game and then reducing its cooldown back to a 5 minute cooldown.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 23
Are you guys looking into TP since it has yet again become a 3 TP per team Meta in Proplay?
: Just wondering, what do you think is wrong with tank mr items right now? As someone who plays mostly tanks (and tends to build anyone who isn’t a tank as a tank anyway) I find the current setup of spirit visage for healing, adaptive helm for well, adaptive helm situations, abyssal for damage amp and mana, and wits end for an offensive option to be pretty solid. Sure there isn't as much diversity in options as there is for armor, but it still works pretty well, so I am curious as to what you’re seeing there.
I just believe that especially adaptive is so situational that building it in sub-par situations is beyond terrible since its stats and build path is very weak. I think that diversity is key here. Abyssal can also feel this way especial since some tanks due very low magic damage, and your team may have low magic damage so then its unique nature just feels useless.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=hLGAeHTA,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-08-23T16:37:06.584+0000) > > I really hope that this preseason is very focused on items. The game really needs Tank MR items, AP Bruiser items, Mage items looked into since almost everyone goes {{item:3285}} and {{item:3165}}. Healing in game is super problematic. Also I think Riot really needs to make {{item:3165}} and {{item:3075}} two separate items. Like {{item:3165}} should be split into one Penetration item and one Grievous Wounds item, and {{item:3075}} was even talked about when it was reworked that it was a temporary fix. It needs to be split in two as well. One Grievous Wounds item and one AA damage reflection item. Oblivion Orb should just have the GW on it, and maybe Morello picks up m pen or gets additional AP on it to compensate.
The problem is that Flat Magic penetration is only on two items and is very strong and coupling that with grievous wounds makes an item a must buy unless its stats are legitimately trash. It would be fine to do what you suggest, but magic penetration and grievous wounds should not be on the same item.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 23
I really hope that this preseason is very much focused on items. The game really needs Tank MR items, AP Bruiser items, Mage items looked into since almost everyone goes {{item:3285}} and {{item:3165}}. Healing in game is super problematic. Also I think Riot really needs to make {{item:3165}} and {{item:3075}} two separate items. Like {{item:3165}} should be split into one Penetration item and one Grievous Wounds item, and {{item:3075}} was even talked about when it was reworked that it was a temporary fix. It needs to be split in two as well. One Grievous Wounds item and one AA damage reflection item.
Tailypo (NA)
: Kaisa is pretty weak early. So is Vayne. If you want to plow other carries 1v1, the choice is simple. {{champion:119}} Not much of a duelist, but effective.
You don't have to duel when you 2 shot other marksmen
: Which ADC is the best at fighting 1v1's?
Depends on what you are trying to 1v1. Some good ones are Vayne and Kai'Sa.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lxArs0fz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-12T16:16:49.627+0000) > > Ahh Galio Players are now feeling like OG Karma players. I'm sorry to hear that you have lost your love for a champion due to Riots inability to understand the playerbase. It would be in your best interest to just find a new champion. When they go this deep they don't comeback. old karma tell that to my 5k games of old sion and they moved any champs similar to him xdddd
But Sion got a huge upgrade and everyone agrees. The champion he was before his rework was an abomination and 99.9% of people agree with that.
Rioter Comments
Galiö (NA)
: Galio is zero fun anymore
Ahh Galio Players are now feeling like OG Karma players. I'm sorry to hear that you have lost your love for a champion due to Riots inability to understand the playerbase. It would be in your best interest to just find a new champion. When they go this deep they don't comeback.
: I'd like an AP item rework. We should get the choice of going AP, CDR or a mix between the two. Getting 40% CDR shouldn't happen as a side product, it should be a choice you have to make. If you want more CDR you get less damage on individual spells but more uptime, while going the AP route allows your skills to hit harder with more downtime inbetween.
: For riot to actually attempt to balance during preseason rather than letting all the broken shit remain at the start of the new ranked season.
I mean that is a near impossible request. The philosophy behind preseason is to introduce a new state to the game. New Meta and stuff. Pretty much up until midseason is to tune the major outliers and add or remove stuff to fit a meta wanted by Riot and then the end of the season is the fine tune for worlds.
Rioter Comments
: sion the generic all the same color (grey) ogre. playstyle and build NOTHING like it was. sion's rework is the definition of "deleted and replaced". F tier in my opinion
> [{quoted}](name=Troll Slaiyer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ZMoEjm6H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-31T22:03:42.242+0000) > > sion the generic all the same color (grey) ogre. playstyle and build NOTHING like it was. sion's rework is the definition of "deleted and replaced". > > F tier in my opinion Some old champions needed to be deleted and replaced. Sion's kept part of his lore and mathematics to create a much better kit design around a great model. Grey and lifeless is his identity.
: Riot's Attempt to Make Ganks Occur Less Achieved the Opposite Effect
I mean when each Jungle camp is worth a fraction of what they used to be, what is the point of sitting in the jungle. Also most champs that jungle can clear the jungle so fast they have no camps for like half the game.
: Why do you consider a highly problematic (when it comes to balancing) rework like Akali A tier, while others like Aatrox and Urgot are B tier? Is this mostly from a thematic point of view and you simply enjoy Akali's ninja thematic more than these other 2 or do you consider gameplay here?
> [{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ZMoEjm6H,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-31T14:40:45.273+0000) > > Why do you consider a highly problematic (when it comes to balancing) rework like Akali A tier, while others like Aatrox and Urgot are B tier? > > Is this mostly from a thematic point of view and you simply enjoy Akali's ninja thematic more than these other 2 or do you consider gameplay here? I think it is hard especially with more recent VGUs to get a good read on their kits because Riot pretty much now releases the kit and then removes problematic elements from it while it is on live. I think that Akali has very straight forward issues that have been changed and she is in a completely reasonable spot balance wise for a majority of players. She is frustrating to face, but has significant counter play. The reason Aatrox will definitely always be below Akali is because even though I agree that old Aatrox was poorly designed Riot decided to keep one big part of his kit with his revive, but they have removed it now, so it really has none of old Aatrox left besides the general visual design. I am actually right now working on a better representation of this list using a scale of 5 seperate categories to explain all of my reasons on my choices. I should be done with that sometime today.
Rioter Comments
: > Gaining fury while dead. Shyvana is the only champion who's ult Cooldown stops while dead. YESSS OMG THIS 100% {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
Riot has responded about her gaining fury while she is dead and said that, "it is unique to her and that if she gains it while dead she will no longer be unique and not all champions should be the same," that is a synopsis of what the Rioter replied to me with.
Elewd (NA)
: If one of these changes involves removing the R-Q-R combo interaction for really low ping players im all for this.
im pretty sure they already removed that
: Yes! Guinsoo's is also under consideration at the moment. Not for a rework level thing, but for tuning. Currently I have a change in testing where Phantom hit triggers every third attack (rather than every other attack) and its %pen is a flat 15% (rather than 6.5-15% based on level). We'll be keeping this in mind while evaluating Vayne and Master Yi.
Why do Rioters like Phantom Hits so much? It has been such a problematic mechanic for so long. I just don't understand how it has not been removed yet. You know how many champions that you have kneecapped because of Phantom Hits. Remember it starts from when it was on Sated Devourer. I would like to know why it is not considered for removal?
nelogis (EUW)
: AP Bruisers will always be a balance nightmare with the current set of items
The lack of AP Bruiser items and clarity on what identity they should encompass are huge issues that Riot will have to face up until they actually release items designed for them. Mainly the issue lays there, but also the way AP works is much different than how AD works making it hard to not make items for AP Bruisers that are not abused by other AP classes. Tanks, Mages, and AP Assassins may all attempt to abuse items designed for AP Bruisers. One way to stop mages from abusing them is by making these items Melee only, but then we still have to worry about Tanks and Assassins abusing them and that will be a hectic task.
Poske (EUNE)
: Flash combos which should be removed
What about Orianna Shockwave into flash? The ability follows her, is that ok or no?
: Is this a joke?
What is even more troll is the enemy Diana didn't do damage to towers and she is one of the fastest tower killers in the game.
Madsin25 (NA)
: Doesn't make what is said not true. If you can't climb you have only yourself to blame.
Not saying it is wrong I just want as much evidence as possible to get these bot voters fixed.
: Its your fault.
More voting bots what a surprise /s
Rioter Comments
: Sona could definitely waste wukong before he gets to be useful and if she doesnt build full ap she could withstand wukong's 'burst' you dont need to be the full ap mage thats what mid is for play like swain. and 12 seconds for level 1 on a mobility ability isnt long
Sona mobility is a tiny MS buff on a 12 second CD while Wukong dash is on an 8 second CD.
: Immobile with that e on no real cooldown. she cant shove all at one time but she can spam q and sove faster than a wukong because a wukong would have to back off from her q spam
I didn't know 12 seconds was considered less than a real cooldown? Also Wukong would actually just 1 shot sona every time she tried to walk up for an AA.
: Kleptomancy needs to be removed
I would go one step further and say that the Inspiration Tree needs to be removed.
Moody P (NA)
: Taric is a toxic champion and his rework is terrible
Surprised that someone would actually argue the rework was a failure, but still understand the original version was also not the best. I agree he needs to be changed and not reverted.
: You know if Sona wasn't a squishy she going to be another ranged top laner who abuse kelpto
Also abysmal at shoving and does pitiful damage early while also being immobile.
: I spy a bot upvoted thread.
It had 19 votes in 9 minutes not suspicious at all. /s
: Shyvana Needs A Rework
Riot knows she is on the Tier 1 in need if VGU list.
: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
Honestly I think removing the Inspiration tree would be best imo. I think it just causes too many issues. Like if it isn't universally strong and abused then it is viewed as useless. It offers far too much sustain and it makes the game feel far to unrewarding for players to poke and harrass the lane opponent. Also Klepto is super abusive as well and really none of the Keystones have ever felt healthy.
Meserion (NA)
: Concerning the Triumph Rune, I think the healing should have a short delay to it that is extended every time the player takes damage, The reason for this is simple, this rune has effectively counteracted Champions that make use of periodic damage to kill other Champions. Champions screwed over by this rune: {{champion:17}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:91}} I'd remove Legend: Bloodline because its free lifesteal and lifesteal is a very important stat that affects how you build you're character. Making it in-built with runes is a problem. There is already a ton of in-built healing effects, and this rune is too much.
Idk it already has a delay and it would be pretty terrible if it didnt heal you until the end of a fight. Like imagine grouped as 5 and not having all 5 triumphs until after the final kill. The rune would be pretty pointless.
Tiure (NA)
: Most of these options do not allow you to heal without fighting. If it gets to be a problem, Riot should probably remove the ability to lifesteal from minions and monsters.
Like I said in the post tons of champions now heal in the fight and they were never meant to heal causing them to be problematic.
: The new masteries just threw more wood on the fire. Some items have been problems for years because of their synergy with lifesteal. {{item:3153}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3074}} {{item:3085}} But yes I agree it's a big contributor to the problematic gameplay decision of; instantly-kill, or draintank, if not then you loose to someone doing one of these.
Currently I believe Runes are more at fault than items, but Riot is looking into items and hopefully they fix some problematic ones, but nothing will be fixed until Runes get fix edd d as well.
: this but unironically. AFKing goes completely unpunished, inting/trolling is punished extremely infrequently, and saying bad words is punished about as often as it should be.
The thing about being rude or whatever is that it should never result in a ban, it should be a chat restriction and even removing chat entirely from the account. Riot Blaustoise has the same stance. But punishment for legitament trolling is near nonexistent.
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Frosted Tips

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