: I've held off creating this thread for too long... The Day Riot invited me to Playtest Mordekaiser
: Let's talk about + and - for a moment.
I definitely understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. That said, I think you should consider that the boards aren't a good reflection of how the actual playerbase feels. Most people who post on the boards seem to be complaining. Why is that? It's because the players that are happy don't feel the need to even come to the boards. I play with four IRL friends, and none of them frequent the boards. Only one has ever even been to the boards. Also, everyone has something different that bothers them about the game. Someone might come to the boards to complain about Yasuo but be fine with everything else. You might feel like you see a lot of people in game complaining, but I guarantee those few just stand out. I'm in bronze 1, and most of the players I play with either don't chat or don't talk directly about game balance or whatever. Basically, don't let a few negative comments or people fool you into thinking everyone is like this.
: It's where he belongs. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
> [{quoted}](name=A Swarm of Koala,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zo47UN53,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-09T01:35:46.720+0000) > > It's where he belongs. Search your feelings, you know it to be true. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Rioter Comments
: and the pizza feet...gotta keep the classic pizza feet
: I guess we can disagree on the class system, but another alternative solution is overhauling the marksman class to all use an ammo system like jhin and graves. with some having significantly more ammo than that like ashe having 20+ arrows for her quiver. and others like jinx having different ammo for gun (30) and missiles (5) and maybe draven getting ammo resets for catching axes, but having lower amounts of ammo in total. then you could have certain feel good moments like vayne doesn't need to reload during r. and many fun mechanics like that all working around ammo since people by far find jhin to be one of the most fair adcs in the game. This could generate many feelsbad moments though if you're an ashe and have to reload when they are 1% hp and they kill you so adcs would also want additional mechanics to get out of combat after using all their ammo like jhin has with his movement speed.
The ammo idea is pretty interesting. I kinda like the idea, though I don't think all marksmen would want to be restricted like that. I'm definitely not against it. I don't want to add restrictions on marksmen or make them harder/less fun to play. I want to make them more satisfying by adding more power. My point is simply that making their autos stronger is unhealthy for everyone. I would have marksmen rely on auto damage, but their abilities be much more important then they are right now. I'm mostly talking about crit marksmen here. {{champion:15}} {{champion:22}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:18}} Maybe make {{champion:15}} Q have a much shorter cool down and scale better. Maybe make {{champion:67}} W a spammable skill shot like Yas Q. I'm not an ADC player and I'm not a design expert, but I'm sure there are ways to make marksmen feel good about their champ Abilities while also adding interactive counterplay. I'm not sure either I've been clear on what I mean by interactive counterplay. Basically, interactive counterplay is when you can still do something against an enemy attack after it was activated. {{champion:86}} has no interactive counterplay. Either he kills you because he is ahead, or he dies. His abilities aren't interactive. {{champion:119}} has interactive counterplay. You can predict or dodge his E, and you can play around his spinning axes. His Ult is also a skill shot, which is both interactive to use and play against. Remember when {{champion:142}} could miss her abilities and still kill you? That's kinda how I view marksmen (not all of them). Their abilities just aren't as essential as their point click autos. An {{champion:81}} player feels great when they hit their skillshots, just like{{champion:22}} R or {{champion:145}} W. I want ADCs to feel better about their abilities, not just their autos. Alot of what I'm talking about was discussed by Phreak. Here's the video https://youtu.be/lc5Cd4b5HWg [](https://youtu.be/lc5Cd4b5HWg)
: Veigar needs a cap on his passive
A late game Veigar is not the only champion that can one shot you. There are plenty of late game mages that do as much or more damage then him in games. Ovbiously there's a certain point (like 60 minutes in) where the Veigar starts to out damage everyone because he's infinitely scaling, but games rarely go that long. Have you ever played against a fed {{champion:8}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:85}} ? They can insta-gib you even easier then Veigar can. At least {{champion:45}} is only really dangerous to one champ at a time. Late game {{champion:8}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:55}} will one shot your entire team.
rawiazam1 (EUNE)
: i support this statement
Just don't take its cs :p The statement needs its items
: This is why {{champion:67}} and {{champion:18}} will always have a high banrate when they're meta imo. Nobody likes dying because somebody walked up and right clicked you to death. On the other hand, when was the last time you heard somebody complain about {{champion:21}} or {{champion:498}} - who are reliant on autoattacks, but also strike a good balance with their abilities to do damage. Even champs that are hugely reliant on their autoattacks can have fun & unique mechanics with them, like {{champion:119}}.
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Great examples! I would be fine if Adcs did more damage/were more survivable if they were given more unique mechanics to interact with.
: What if I told you kiting is just as important of a skill as skillshots, and doesn't nessassry deserve to be nerfed in exchange for more spell damage since that is the whole mage identity. What needs to be overhauled is the class system making certain classes strong vs each other ex: ADC strong vs tanks/bruser, tanks strong vs assassin/mage, assassin strong vs adc/mage. Etc...
I didn't mean to insult adcs by saying that their class doesn't require skill. That wasn't my intention. Kiting definitely does require a ton of mechanical skill and game knowledge. My point is that the auto reliant marksmen don't have to worry about missing their damage, since its point click (barring rare things like Fizz e or Vlad w). The one getting hit by the auto attack has no form of counterplay other then 1: kill the adc as fast as possible (which leads to the frustrating 0.2s lifespan of an Adc) 2: don't engage entirely. I'm NOT saying they are op. I'm NOT saying they require no skill. But they aren't interactive. Again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it does make it so Adcs cant do other things, such as have much survivability or self peel for when an assassin jumps on them. {{champion:81}} is a great example of what I'm talking about. He has lots of skill shots, but sill relies partially on auto attacks. His damage isn't completely guaranteed, which is what makes him more satisfying to play AND play against. I greatly disagree with how you view the classes. Losing to another champion simply because that class beat yours (rock paper scissors) isn't fun. Each champion should have specific strengths and weaknesses unique to them, not some class mold that they need to fit into. Counter champions should exist by coincidence, not design. Why do you think {{champion:67}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:3}} are complained about so much? It's because they are designed to counter an entire class. Because of they way these champs are designed, the classes don't have much counterplay against them. This is fine for professional, but for solo it sucks. Players want to be in control of what is happening to them.
Rioter Comments
HàrrowR (EUW)
: ADC players: We don't like getting one shotted in 0.2 seconds, Boards:
Görgoroth (EUNE)
: I know Yi is not op, but plss
If you have a good {{champion:98}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:67}} his split shouldn't be too hard to deal with. If you don't, {{champion:33}} works pretty well. If you have a fed assassin they can just one shot him. If you don't have any of those, and he's super fed, stay grouped as five and focus him down before any team fight. Do not take any team fight unless 1: He is guaranteed to not be there 2: You can kite and focus him easily 3: You can kill 1-2 members of their team easily and transition into a 5v4 or better (still focus him down). The only way Yi can kill you is by running at you and autoing. If you stay together he has to jump into 5 people to be relevant, so focus him down. If he's splitting and super fed, get 2-3 people to kill him. If you kill him and its late game, you now have 40-60 seconds of no Yi so you're free to teamfight. Try to bait his Q before you throw your CC. Worst case scenario: Your team isn't coordinating against him, he's not the only fed carry on their team, and your teammates are constantly getting caught. If this is the case, 1v1 him. If you're not playing a champ that can beat him 1v1 while he's splitting, look to hard carry a teamfight while he's not there. If you can't do that, and no one else on your team is carrying/they are all behind, you lose. This is a team game, if their team is ahead of yours, they are most likely going to win. I'm not arguing with you about him fun-killing, but there are ways to get around him.
Madjack01 (EUW)
I see your point {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: If your champions lore were to end permanently...
{{champion:82}} conquers all major factions(starting with Noxus), pulls down he gods of targon, breaks whatever Shurima {{champion:268}} is building, razes Piltover/Zaun, burns Ionia, drives out the Void. A world of undeath is born. The remaining heroes {{champion:86}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:157}} etc put aside their differences and unite against him. They defeat him finally, and banish his spirit permanently from Runeterra using the runes held by {{champion:13}} . The world is now cleansed of Darkin, Void creatures, and the power of Targon. A new age of peace begins.
: Warwick going after a low health squishy
{{summoner:6}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3800}} {{item:2065}} {{item:3117}} {{item:3139}} Godspeed brother
: Anyone else want a legit 1 v 1 map?
This should probably not be in the memes section.
: Personally, I woulda called it a bug splat but this works too
: {{champion:82}} counterstrike blocks your Q and reduces your W and E damage. You also can't chase him or run away if he decides to fight you
Cancel your Q animation with either your E or your W so he can't react to the first hit. He will then press E, so use the second Q hit on a minion (just to get some shield and avoid losing out on the third hit). Eat the stun, he's not gonna be able to kill you if you have ur W ticking or you E'd right before it. Stun wears off third Q him and you win. Consider taking grasp as mentioned by someone else above
: You have to play whatever champ you pick, including those with out-play kits. But no one should have to change your mind. Just change the way you think. Besides specific counters, which should exist or else all champs are basically the same, safety generally counters riskiness. If not risk v reward and the whole game is out of whack. Again, nothing is uniform (every champ is unique), and given that, specific counters should exist that even include some easy champs, and also safety needs to generally counter riskiness. If the latter isn't true, then everything is risky, and that is far from fun for a lot of people; so you are wrong.
To say that all champs would be essentially the same if there weren't "counter champions" isn't true. The reason champs are different is because of numerous different factors that allocate overall power into different areas -Skillshots vs point-click -Ability vs Auto attack reliance -MS -Mobility abilities -Rotation speed (yes, these three are different) -Cooldowns -Burst vs DPS -Map pressure (global ults,etc) -Base damages vs ratios -Overall game time scaling (early mid late power) -Waveclear / Jg camp clear -How telegraphed its abilities are -Type of damage (Ap vs Ad) -Synergy with other champs -Situational vs consistent tankiness/damage/cc/range/mobility/utility -Single target vs Aoe effects -CC application method -How much Cc the champ can put out -How vulnerable the champ is to CC -The minimum/maximum effective range of the champion -Self Engage abilities -Self Disengage abilities -Abilities that provide utility to the team via team peeling/team/engage/heals/shields/etc -How fast they can kill objectives -Synergy with items -How fast an ability activates (cast times) -Resource type (Mana vs energy vs HP vs none) -How reliant the champ is on its resource -How fast they spend their resource / how fast they regen it -other stuff I'm too lazy to list
Daxonion (EUNE)
: Yeah he is annoying and almost impossible to kite. Will bump him up {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: What shield are you talking about?
Doge2020 (NA)
: His execute lets him deal with targets very easily, so would you think it would be fair that a 30000HP, 200 Armor and 200 MR pyke coming up to you and ulting you to instantly kill you. Then easily get away with little to no counter damage from your team because of how tanky he is. He is an assassin that has a resettable execute, him being as tanky as a tank at the same time wouldn’t be acceptable. He can still build defensive items, he just has the hp to ad conversion so those defensive items aren’t entirely useless on him because of the hp cap.
True, but if the scalings were different on his Ult it could be necessary to build mostly offense anyways. Riot could have made his Ult scale off of Lethality (like his W does), which would make it necessary to build assassin.
: He is a melee support that is encouraged NOT to build as a tank, but to build as an assassin. However, in lane, he can't really play as an assassin because he is facing off against two enemy champions, one of which is commonly a marksmen, typically focusing on sustained physical damage output.
"sustained physical damage output". This makes more sense now. I rarely interact with Pyke, so I was really confused why his stats we're so high.
: I understand your points perfectly. You're confused about Pyke having out of line base stats for what you view as his class. I explained several reasons why he gets the base stats he does. You just refuse to acknowledge them. So since you weren't listening I made fun of you... VERY mildly. If you want to call things immature, ignoring reasons why champions on average get the benefits they do is pretty immature. Especially if you're complaining about base stats they get (which supports rely on way way more than any other class... see income role) and the champion isn't even performing overly well but pretty much average (just played a lot). I wonder why they get the stats they do.
I play top, so I rarely ever see Pyke in lane. He is never been more difficult to deal with then other champs, I was just wondering why his stats are so high. On the surface it didn't make sense to me, and I feel like the Hp to Ad is kinda pointless, but I guess your argument makes sense. I'm confused why Riot doesn't let him build Hp. They could have lowered his stats and let him build defense items, which would bring him roughly in line with the stats he has now. But they didn't. Why?
: play chogath and come back to me while you instagib a pyke q w e ( e once) ult in succession
...so Pyke has tank stats because Cho can one shot him? {{champion:91}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:126}} ?
: > [{quoted}](name=FullMetalPeasant,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OeOAgFrA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-29T20:41:18.222+0000) > > Galio is a tank, not a burst mage. Even if he's being played as a burst mage that doesn't have any relevance to my point. > > Pyke's teamfight is safer because of healing while unseen, insane base stats, his dash. No other assassin can heal like he does out of combat. > > Rengar doesn't have an escape dash. If you cc him after he cleanses he's not going anywhere. It's a lot more difficult to cc a pyke because of the distance his E creates. Galio is certainly NOT a tank. At worst, he is an AP bruiser. Also, if Pyke is using his E to escape, he's being quite useless. It's not quite that hard to dick out a Pyke if you know how to play against him or he doesn't just snowball super hard early game. Also if you want to hyper focus on one thing, Pyke can't escape like even Zed because Pyke E is still a subpar escape for quite a lot of scenarios compared to just a "press R or W and you're back 3 screens away". If you CC Pyke and stay near him, his healing is absolutely useless. Just like Rengar, if you CC pyke, the dude is pretty dead. It's not that terribly difficult todo unless of course you're just *Attack move. Click Pyke* "Holy shit, why is this not working". I'm guessing you're also the type to run straight at a Ahri and complain about Charm or chase Singed and moan about poison. lol
Your insults are irrelevant and immature. You don't understand my point. Nowhere in my statement did I say Pyke is op. Riot classifies Galio as a tank. If he isn't behaving like a tank then that is a different issue. "If you Cc Pyke" yeah, absolutely. But this applies to Talon/Fizz/Diana as well. And yet, they don't get a passive that allocates resources to give them tank stats. Why? Why doesn't Pyke have the ability to build HP? If he could, he could build a few defensive items. His damage would drop ovbiously, but that makes sense. Why does he get tank stats while building full damage?
: Because Pyke doesn't get health.
When do you see the other assassins stacking Hp? (outside of {{item:3814}} and sometimes {{item:3071}} ) why does he have 130 Ar?
: If Galio is a burst mage, why is he so tanky? Also because he can't build any form of HP as a melee champion. Typically if you synergize (See Malphite for Armor, and Sion for HP) you will get slightly less than your average melee. So seeing as he can't build any HP, and has been HIGHLY disincentivized to build anything tank, he's got some tankier items. Also not sure why you think his teamfight is safer than Fizz (untargetable > camo), Talon (invis > camo), or Rengar (built in Cleanse and instant major heal) lol
Galio is a tank, not a burst mage. Even if he's being played as a burst mage that doesn't have any relevance to my point. Pyke's teamfight is safer because of healing while unseen, insane base stats, his dash. No other assassin can heal like he does out of combat. Rengar doesn't have an escape dash. If you cc him after he cleanses he's not going anywhere. It's a lot more difficult to cc a pyke because of the distance his E creates.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: Because he's a support, dummy. He needs to survive in lane in order to execute you c:
: Pyke converts the bonus health to ad. So he cant get any higher HP than 2300. On the other hand all the other can easily get wayyyy more than 3000 health. So if Pyke get rooted or stunned and get focued by 2 or 3 at the same time in the one shot damage meta we are in then he disappers faster than Shaco Q or Kha zix R.
Ok, but why does he have so much armor? Every other assassin gets deleted if they get caught, but they don't get to heal from bad trades and they don't get tank stats.
Rioter Comments
? Can you do better then just complaining about a champion being picked frequently? Even when a champion is picked that much, it doesn't mean they need nerfs.
Daxonion (EUNE)
: URF Champion Tier List
{{champion:58}} is not tier 2. There is no kiting him. If he gets in range to flash, he can flash then E, and by the time he uses the second E it's off cooldown again. Try kiting a champ with infinite dashes and an hour long stun every 3 seconds. Lol did you even try building {{item:3508}} on him in this mode? It redefines "no counterplay".
ISmurfy420 (EUNE)
: Irelia Champion Spotlight it's misleading.
: Why do we not talk about how ridiculous Rengar is?
What champions do you normally play? Are you a top lane main?
Dr Dog (NA)
: actually unpopular opinion: i hate both URF and ARURF
{{champion:8}} if a team has him they win.
: Mordes not getting shit until his rework. I have come to accept this.
> [{quoted}](name=Mordepool,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EqdWA7Q5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-22T16:58:10.419+0000) > > Mordes not getting shit until his rework. I have come to accept this. Tbh I don't even think he's getting a rework anymore. I feel like Riot wants us to forget he exists.
: But there is counterplay, not in the type of damage, but in the method of application. Vayne and Fiora can't just deal their %HP True damage for free and Garen deals 1% per tick so... If you die to %HP True damage, it's not because the type of damage is OP, it's because you didn't position properly.
There is no counterplay for juggernauts against {{champion:67}} . 1: You can't get close, because of her roll combined with her E (her roll also means you can't run from her). 2: You can't tank her damage, because you can't build against it. 3: There is no way to stop her from applying the true damage, because it's on her autos and (Refer to point one) If I want to play {{champion:75}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:106}} I ban her, or risk head injuries from smashing my face against the keyboard. She doesn't just counter, she INVALIDATES an entire playstyle. The only counterplay is simply being as far away as possible, which defeats the purpose of the team-fighting juggernauts. If she had actual ways to position around her true damage (like{{champion:114}} ) it would be fine. She doesn't.
bQTammy (NA)
: Get rid of %HP true damage
DON'T{{champion:67}} YOU{{champion:67}} FEEL{{champion:67}} OUTPLAYED?{{champion:67}}
: I have a question for you meddler, when exactly does a champion reach a point in balancing that a unique mechanic from a kit needs to be removed. Personally I'm not a fan of Irelia losing her disarm, I thought it was a cool and unique mechanic (also lore wise it kinda made sense) but she is a strong champion so something I assume must be changed. But I'm curious what the process is to reach that point as, I would hope it isn't a light process.
{{champion:32}} has a disarm on his R
: Silver players do not know the fundamentals. They dont know how to CS, when to CS, trade, zone, roam, gank, path, ward, or even look at the map. You may say that you do, but if you did you'd be diamond.
Roughly 2.3% of the playerbase is in diamond. You can't honestly be saying that only 2.3% of the playerbase knows the basics of this game. You can say that they USE them better, but to say there the only ones that KNOW the fundamentals is ridiculous.
: Who do you think is the best designed champion and why ¿
{{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:8}} Oh aesthetic design...uh {{champion:107}} perfect animations/sound/look
Rioter Comments
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Crit Item Explorations Part 2
What if you just made crit increase basic attack DMG (not on hit effects) by 1% per 1% crit. Ovbiously the crit cap would need to be altered as well as how much crit each item gives. But the build paths would be much smoother and we could get rid of the rng.
: Nasus Partial Rework Concept
This post is getting a surprising amount of views, so I'll post edits I make in replies. Please suggest stuff! I'm happy to discuss any ideas. EDIT: I was looking at the passive again, and I realized that the lifesteal combined with the new Soul Eater passive would give him 25% lifesteal on basic attacks(against champions) at lvl 1 . This seemed a little too much, so I added the following condition: "While Soul Eater is active (can only affect champions), Nasus loses this lifesteal". This way he keeps some lane sustain without having absurdly high healing on basic attacks.
nasu010 (NA)
: As a former nasus main i actually like your proposal however the w still remains an issue I suggest shifting the armor reduction to the w instead there for making it more viable since it can now miss if used incorrectly and further making it a greater asset to his kit. With this {{item:3116}} {{item:3151}} make an even better combination to his core build pairing it with {{item:3074}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3025}} {{item:3080}} or {{item:3115}} and {{item:3078}}
Hello fellow Nasus player, thanks for the reply! I approached the partial rework from a juggernaut perspective, core items being {{item:3025}} or {{item:3078}} and then full tank. I focused on having Nasus scale around his stacks rather then AD, meaning he wouldn't be building items like{{item:3080}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3074}} . AP Nasus is something I'm not very familiar with. I'm totally for building {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} , but doing so pushes him away from juggernaut and into mage territory. Maybe Nasus could be a hybrid juggernaut, core items {{item:3025}} then {{item:3151}} and then tank. His W would be enough of a slow for Liandrys I think. I like the idea of moving the armor shred to his W, but I felt like it made his W overloaded. It seems more appropriate for the armor shred to stay on his E, as it is an AOE ability for stationary targets (basically tanks/other juggernauts). I definitely understand the issue you have with the W; I struggled to find something to do with it. I felt like it should focus on being a slow/AS slow, so I added the slow immunity to help him chase down enemies that he hits with it. In a teamfight having slow immunity is essential in order to be effective. I feel like lategame Nasus should be a threat to enemy teams, and if he can't get around slows then they'll just kite him infinitely even if he's slowing them with his W.
: Prestige Skin for Olaf
This dude is from the elder scrolls online. He looks badass, and would be great as a Olaf skin.
: as a chesse top maining {{champion:17}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:80}} i love Nasus the way he is LMAO
xd. I'm hoping these changes would still let people abuse him early in tradeoff for lategame scaling.
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