: There are plenty of champs that are waiting longer for a new skin and you choose to complain about Kindred of all of them?
Kindred hasn't received a skin in two years and the one that was released two years ago is enjoyed by a minority of Kindred players. That's the one skin they have, aside from the on release skin that every champ gets. While some champs do exist, there aren't many that get such poor skin love as Kindred.
: Patch 8.22 notes
I really really hope that rune changes in the preseason will make Phase Rush more viable on more champions, I think it is only really effective on three champions if that. I really miss Storrmraider's, and this rune feels and is so lackluster.
Meddler (NA)
: Looking at a possible buff to his Q damage, agree his early game especially's lacking at present. Might hit PBE today, possible it's something we look at next patch instead though, can't recall off top of the head.
So I can safely assume there's really no plan for a revert?
: A message to riot: please change Zac back
Hm no Riot response despite the large amount of attention this post has. I wish I could be surprised at that but that's been par for the course when it comes to Riot acknowledging Zac players, Zac criticisms, etc.
: Patch 8.19 notes
Does Riot expect no one to play their game during this patch that is so obviously geared towards what they want to see out of pro play? I feel like they just gave us a huge middle finger by releasing this patch.
: Do people even play Zac anymore? I don't think he's that good right now, but I almost never see him except in ARAM.
I have 190k mastery on him from before his rework, most of the Zac mains want a revert but Riot isn't communicative about whether we'll get that or even get some kind of buff for him. So, no, people don't really play Zac much anymore, it's simply not worth it. {{item:3070}}
: Patch 8.18 Notes
I see Riot is still ignoring the majority of {{champion:154}} players, or former players since the rework ruined him. Ready for my downvotes though.
: I agree for the most part except for the fact that Sejuani wasn't even meta. I don't play Sej and I feel bad for Sej mains. A champ that's already not very good in solo queue getting nerfed solely because of LCS. Like you said though, maybe there's a chance she'll get rebuffed after worlds. I just wish they wouldn't balance around pro-play though because it ruins the experience for solo queue.
Sounds like the {{champion:154}} treatment. Though I should be careful, every time I talk about Zac being weak I get flamed. :x
: Patch 8.13 notes
Please PLEASE make emotes a shard that can be unlocked with a tiny amount of OE/BE, I have been getting ONLY emotes from Hextech Chests and I don't use emotes. It would be great if I could AT LEAST disenchant them.
: I know a lot of kin mains (included) who are pretty anal about They Them pronouns. I think it's ok to refer to lamb as she, as lamb is very clearly more feminism, and wolf as he as wolf is very clearly masculine, but KINDRED refers to THEM as a whole, not her lamb or his wolf.
> [{quoted}](name=Saint Haven,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=Jz07sgE0,comment-id=002300000000,timestamp=2018-06-27T05:57:54.499+0000) > > I know a lot of kin mains (included) who are pretty anal about They Them pronouns. I think it's ok to refer to lamb as she, as lamb is very clearly more feminism, and wolf as he as wolf is very clearly masculine, but KINDRED refers to THEM as a whole, not her lamb or his wolf. I mean, I know that. It's just not a real issue of "she" is used since the real champion is Kindred, with a familiar that follows her. I prefer using them usually, but it's an honest mistake that hardly needs corrected. I mean if Kindred were to be remade into a champion that was meaningfully two characters, it would be more appropriate to correct people I think. Not that ANY of this REALLY matters in the first place. :p
Larriet (NA)
: Kindred gains stacks of Hunter's Vigor from moving and attacking. When charged, _**she**_ will heal for up to 32-100 (at levels 1-18) based on her missing health %. ;(
I mean tbh Kindred mains aso say "She" a lot since Wolf is pretty much just a pet, you don't control both of them really, just Lamb.
: Patch 8.12 notes
I have gotten nothing but emotes from the past 5 Hextech chests I've opened. I don't use emotes so Hextech crafting feels almost ruined for me, PLEASE give me at least the option to disenchant emotes for a small amount of Orange Essence.
: I had no idea that I held an unpopular opinion for Zac's rework. As a Zac main with upwards of 60k mastery points, I love his rework. I feel he is much more consistent since his changes. Even when behind, he brings enough hard CC to the table to swing the tides of skirmishes; he wasn't nearly as reliable pre-rework.
> [{quoted}](name=Smack and Cheese,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=66aVzlYO,comment-id=000b0006,timestamp=2018-05-16T21:46:52.462+0000) > > I had no idea that I held an unpopular opinion for Zac's rework. As a Zac main with upwards of 60k mastery points, I love his rework. I feel he is much more consistent since his changes. Even when behind, he brings enough hard CC to the table to swing the tides of skirmishes; he wasn't nearly as reliable pre-rework. I don't know if that's supposed to be sarcasm or anything. But if this isn't, it is a rather unpopular opinion among Zac players. If mastery points matter, I have 173k and hate the rework for a LARGE list of reasons that I'm sure can be seen on the rest of the comments I've left. I must disagree about his reliability, if I were ahead on old Zac and my team were behind, I could carry. Now that isn't an option, it's terribly rare for a Zac to bring things back for his team if they are behind, and a huge reason for that is he has half the damage he used to. I don't think a tank should be able to one shot squishies (even though this is a game where that happens too often), I just want his damage to be reliable enough to duel with someone 1v1, or to assist my team when I've gotten fed.
: May I make a suggestion? Instead of a revert they add an effect on his ult. One that, if he just presses it and bounces people away, the cooldown should be reduced heavily... Not to the point that it could be a glorified 4 basic ability, but at least make it half cooldown or something. Lag spiking or frame dropping when trying to use R and just using the bounce is really depressing and it almost punishes you for having done that.
> [{quoted}](name=Artillery Addict,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=66aVzlYO,comment-id=000b0005,timestamp=2018-05-16T19:11:33.554+0000) > > May I make a suggestion? Instead of a revert they add an effect on his ult. One that, if he just presses it and bounces people away, the cooldown should be reduced heavily... Not to the point that it could be a glorified 4 basic ability, but at least make it half cooldown or something. Lag spiking or frame dropping when trying to use R and just using the bounce is really depressing and it almost punishes you for having done that. Honestly I'd be fine with that, since if you don't fully charge ult you're pretty much trolling or your finger slipped. While that's a great suggestion it doesn't particularly fix Zac's issues unless using the ult like that does more damage or something.
: revert zac revert zac revert zac. these new ap ratio's won't do anything
Guess you won't find in this thread people who: Played Zac before and after the rework extensively Understand RIOT's point of the recent AP scaling changes Too bad Riot doesn't listen to actual Zac players. He has a single way to build him effectively, a single role on the map, and is forced to have a team that's doing well to do well himself, which isn't true about old Zac. Yeah Riot, AP build feels way different from the tank build. Instead of having to rely on my team to make me useful, I can rely on my team to flame me when this shit AP build inevitably fails.
mctweek (NA)
: I used to play Zac all the time and have pool party skin. I have played him twice since the rework. They took all the fun out of him, same as the did poppy. I dont even want poppy's ult back, just the q and passive.
Yeah, Zac was fun before. Sure, he was simple, but he had room to build different items, go into a lane if he chose, and what was real fun was bouncing around combat. None of that is true anymore, you HAVE to go one single build, HAVE to go jungle, and HAVE to pray that your team is doing well because your kit has NO damage.
thaBeast (NA)
: i liked {{champion:28}} before the rework before i could build almoat anything i wanted now i have to go ap assasin which doesnt feel as strong as it used to be i like the art style for her tho now
I liked AD Eve, that was more enjoyable to me, despite it being not as effective. Eve was a neat pick since you could see what the enemy team had and build more AD or AP based on the enemy comp. Admittedly, I don't know how many Eve mains are dissatisfied with her rework, I know Zac mains are still begging for a revert months later. Is the Eve rework disliked by previous Eve players?
: > [{quoted}](name=%%%%i,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=66aVzlYO,comment-id=000b00010001,timestamp=2018-05-16T12:18:18.464+0000) > > zac may be fun, however he does no damage. if you build AP on zac you get melted. he is practically useless unless you have a fed team and his Winrate and Playrate is dying. Riot needs to fix his kit. Zac is a tank. Tanks are intended to heavily CC opponents and soak up loads of damage, not have damage prevalent in their kits. He does his job VERY well, and has done it a lot better since his minor rework. His old kit had remarkably little hard CC in it, as his ultimate was more of a nuisance than CC, since it only knocked back people once - he was a lot more useless with his old kit considering that if he missed his E and used his R, all he could do was run around and hope someone was close enough to spam W on.
I agree tanks are not supposed to deal loads of damage, but this is League of Legends, where tanks do loads of damage. Old Zac didn't have a shit load of damage, his damage was comparable to other tanks in the game, save for a few stronger tanks. New Zac has HALF the damage which makes him only as powerful as his teammates. Also, I know a lot of people have a problem with Zac missing his E in a gank (what is supposed to be his signature move, according to Riot) but still being able to force a Flash because he is CC cancer.
: The new Zac is fun though in a much more effective way. His Q allowing you to slam folks together is super satisfying, and a great bit of weird CC for him (where he lacked it before), and his new ultimate can be a lot more damaging for an enemy team than simply bouncing around spamming W the entire time - now he actually can CC multiple people at once in a very devastating way.
Zac has half the damage he used to, which is HUGE (the numbers on it now are different because of the change this patch, though it's still around half the damage). I agree an ultimate on new Zac can be game changing, but you're still relying heavily on your teammates or a tower to deal any meaningful damage at all. If you somehow get ahead on Zac, but three of your teammates are behind, you can't do much to help them anymore because Zac is only as good as his teammates. On old Zac I could've actually assisted my team when I was ahead because old Zac actually didn't have any problems, at least, not any that the rework actually changed. Riot's goal was to make Zac less jump in and spam all your abilities, but you still do that. He had average damage compared to other tanks of the game before, now he's just a CC bot. It's great if you're playing with 4+ people, but otherwise just look elsewhere for a CC tank.
: LB got her rework reverted solely because her playrate suffered immensely after the rework and they were never able to fix it, Zac however has a significantly higher playrate than he did before the rework and he hasn't shown significant balancing difficulties like LB did. At least they left your champ mostly intact, I used to play Galio and the luchador champ they replaced him with wasn't even the same class.
Zac's playstyle changed entirely from jump in and us all your abilities at once to bounce around collecting blobs to deal more damage, to jump in and use all your abilities and hope your team does the rest. That's terribly unfun, and a lot would be fixed if he had his ultimate back and reduce the duration of his Q. That was he can have some damage back allowing him to actually carry himself, rather than doing only as well as his teammates. Zac mains aren't asking a lot, we were asked for feedback before the rework and Riot took in none of it, now months later we're still begging for a revert but Riot ignores us. Even if we just want the fun of his previous ultimate back, keeping the Q the same. One of our complaints was that the AP build was dead, and even with these changes we still are forced to build a certain way, since the max HP damage was stripped from his W and replaced with an AP ratio. So now to be relevant we HAVE to build some kind of AP (unless that 15 damage W attracts you somehow).
: Patch 8.10 notes
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell but I'll keep saying it. Riot please listen to the Zac mains Reddit like you did with LeBlanc and revert {{champion:154}} , or at least revert his ultimate. Previous Zac mains are still holding onto the hope that you actually listen to what we have to say.
Coccrow (NA)
: Ew, League is not at all "fine tuned". It's one of the most rinky dinky sloppily made games, it's just that it has good fast paced outplay potential and gameplay. I agree with your points but don't get ahead of yourself.
You're getting downvoted but I gotta agree, Riot is trying, points for that of course, but fine-tuned is a descriptor that is a bit much right now.
: New Epic skin: Beemo
{{champion:203}} skin ever? Just one? Because the Super Galaxy one looks like shit.
: This is like saying "no yi nerfs" If the champion doesnt get ahead theyre not strong. So if they nerf them its even harder for them to be relivant.
Yi has way more weaknesses and less opportunities than Kha'zix. There's a reason there is a (really tiny) nerf for him on the PBE, he's too strong at the moment.
: Patch 8.9 notes
{{champion:154}} received some buffs on the PBE that was taken off. I've been asking for a Zac revert for a while since he's just a less fun champion than what he used to be. The buffs in place were a step in the right direction, since Zac used to be AP. That was reverted (understandably because you at Riot have no idea how to balance Zac). But if you're not going to revert him like a ton of Zac players want, then the AP scaling buffs were okay. They were too strong on the PBE, but giving Zac players the option to build AP is alright, kind of like how we used to.
: Still no Kha'zix nerfs. Why am I not surprised...
Riot just loves him too much, always have.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 20
Hey, I really welcome the Kindred changes, it would be cool if they felt more like a character that hunts rather than a character that duels/kites. On the topic of changes, a lot of people who played Zac before his rework are still upset, much like LeBlanc players. I see that he is getting his AP ratios buffed, but I think the real problem we have is his ultimate being boring compared to the old ultimate, and how his rework locked him into the jungle role (I mained him top lane before and it was fun). Zac now feels like a champion you shouldn't play in solo queue since he can't really carry if his team is behind, like other champions and even some tanks can do. Any thoughts to Zac?
: I had a problem with old Zac. And new Zac. Give me my vision back, I like playing against junglers with counter play, not champions who gank from further away than invisibility champions. I do think I prefered playing against old Zac's burst tank than the current CC nightmare though, so I'm fine with your change lol.
Current Zac is just a CC machine, he's barely worth picking if you want a dedicated tank (just pick Sejuani) because his true strength is having SO much CC that he can miss his E and still force a Flash on a gank, which is ridiculous.
: I mean the part where old Zac was nothing but "_spam buttons in teamfights after jumping in with E_" was pretty true. At least current Zac actually gets to do more with his decision making new Q & ult.
> [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=QrW2FTAd,comment-id=003e0000,timestamp=2018-04-18T03:33:04.633+0000) > > I mean the part where old Zac was nothing but "_spam buttons in teamfights after jumping in with E_" was pretty true. At least current Zac actually gets to do more with his decision making new Q & ult. Zac still spams all his abilities after his E, it's a different process of thought now. Before, Zac would create as many blobs as he could, he could duel by walking or bouncing around combat collecting blobs to regen, and this playstyle of bouncing around combat was reinforced by his ultimate. New Zac has had any damage he had before gutted; now I don't think I should be allowed to play a tank that can delete people, but old Zac couldn't do that unless he was pretty dang fed. New Zac does 40% of the damage old Zac did, the trade off being a lot of hard CC. Now, if you've gotten ahead as Zac, you can't carry your team like you could before. If your team is doing poorly, new Zac is doing poorly even when he has a positive score, because new Zac is merely an extension of his teammates. No one had a problem with old Zac. And when Shrieve asked for input on the rework on the PBE, Shrieve was met with terrible feedback, everyone who enjoyed Zac hated what they were seeing. And a majority of us still don't enjoy Zac how he is right now. People say if you give him his old ult back it would make things better, and while I would like all of old Zac back, I think that would be a step in the right direction.
: Patch 8.8 Notes
I'm still waiting for {{champion:154}} to be reverted since this rework is pretty damn ass. Changing a champ with a decent win rate and fine gameplay in solo queue into a champion that is only an extension of his teammates and a shit win rate doesn't feel great. Though it probably wont happen will it? Since Riot likes how he's used in the LCS? Feels pretty bad.
: Can {{champion:236}} please get some buffs he is struggling, he doest have to be broken but can he at least do some damage I'm begging you RITO plz.
I think they want to but they are struggling to buff him AND make him a bot lane pick, rather than a mid pick.
: Patch 8.7 notes
Still feel like Phase Rush is way too situational of a Rune with so few champions making good use of it. Most champions that choose Sorcery as a primary will never choose Phase Rush over Aery or Comet. It's solid on {{champion:69}} , {{champion:75}} , and sometimes {{champion:13}} if you don't like Spellbook, and that's about it. You can use it on other champions but there are better Runes.
: i just feel your gimping your team a slot that would other wise be used for engage or Peel. I would like to see kindred be a viable bot laner to be honest casue she is strong and full of utility.
Riot keeps Kindred in the jungle with the mark passive, but it's pretty much the same effect as having a sign saying "free kill here" in the enemy jungle. I'd like to see them be as useful as other marksmen really, no matter where they go. As far as utility goes though, Kindred doesn't have much, they have a slow that is also an execute, so it's hard to use for ganks and get the maximum potential. And their ulti is useful when they are getting dove, but most Kindred players can tell you that no matter how you use it you'll get flamed for it.
Al Havoc (NA)
: I don't even understand why people complain,i perform well on her most of time i play her and her winrate has been moderate-high past few patches. She is supposedly getting some changes though.
I think {{champion:266}} was also gonna get changes but Riot is quiet. And it wouldn't annoy me as much as it does if their primary focus wasn't the same 20 champions.
: Patch 8.6 notes
I just want to pick {{champion:203}} and not be flamed before the game starts.
Jad (NA)
: I still think the Ornn W change is bs. Being unstoppable isn't his problem, it's the damage/cd. You literally just got rid of a way for good Ornn players to show any skill or outplay.
Thankfully someone actually said it. Remember when Zac was CC cancer AND had damage? Now he can't 1v1 any champion in the game at all, but 2v2's? Forget about it. Ornn's damage is ridiculous for a tank, yet hes still allowed to walk all over people in 1v1's after a few patches of this continuing.
: New free champion rotation: Talon, Leona, Swain and more!
Skin sale AND free rotation for {{champion:203}} ? Maybe enough people will play them that I wont get flamed for locking them in champ select.
: As a kindred main I have been praying for this situation. You sir are a lucky duck lol. Looks like I’ll be shelling out some rp for this one. PS can kindred get a skin that best matches her theme. And Ivern for that matter. Hello I am trying to give u my money here riot lol.
I agree that Kindred needs a new skin, one with actual contrasting colours. I have the Super Galaxy skin but find myself never using it because the effects on it are okay at best. Wolf looks cool, but other than that it feels like a basic Neon Strike skin.
: Patch 8.1 notes
I have many many many problems with the patch notes, but focusing on the positives, the Varus splash is really cool. Could we hope to see a splash update on {{champion:126}} ? His looks just a tad dated.
Vhan8765 (NA)
: Rito loves enforcing their meta after all. We can't question why our supreme overlords have their heads up their own asses without fear of being struck down for daring to speak against our gods. All those less then 1% Heim players better go learn how to play something more meta. Can't let people have fun playing LoL with off meta champions; no, no, no! Unless we see the same 20 champions every game, clearly Rito has failed; so we need to completely gut every champions that isn't on Rito's meta list. All hail our gods, Rito; down with all the off meta players! League of Legends is clearly a "NO FUN" zone.
What annoys me the most is that the same 20 champions that Riot favors are newer champions. I don't know why Riot insists that the most powerful champs be {{champion:142}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:141}} , etc. God (and by "god" I obviously mean Riot) forbid those champions be anything less than oppressive.
: kindred and udyr are in pretty good spots right now. Not overpowered, but still playable. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=forest+within forest climbed to masters this preseason with a 90% win rate on kindred. Its now down to 70%, but masters is harder than diamond obviously.
> [{quoted}](name=Darknife3,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=bX3KXB8a,comment-id=00350000,timestamp=2017-12-15T02:50:01.696+0000) > > kindred and udyr are in pretty good spots right now. Not overpowered, but still playable. > > http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=forest+within > > forest climbed to masters this preseason with a 90% win rate on kindred. Its now down to 70%, but masters is harder than diamond obviously. I already know Kindred is certainly playable. But Kayn is as well, in fact I dare say without these buffs he's definitely worth picking, and in certain cases worth banning. I don't know much about Udyr, no idea about his state. But Kindred isn't worth picking when you can just have Ezreal do what they do better. Maybe if this were pre-rework Kindred I'd say otherwise, since they could still shred tanks. I just want to pick Kindred and not have my team hate me for it before the game even begins.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 13
Can we expect changes to Kindred? It seems they still don't do anything better than Ezreal jungle, and they are FAR from being as good as Kayn or most other meta junglers.
: Patch 7.24b notes
Buff {{champion:141}} because he isn't as powerful as Riot wants, keep {{champion:203}} {{champion:77}} the same because who cares about them right?
: Details on our extra patch coming in December!
Can I expect to see any {{champion:154}} changes? I dislike only being useful if my team is doing good, and not having any potential to do well if my team is doing poorly.
: Gangplank: I assume its because zoes bubble has 2 different parts, A windup(also slows) and a sleep. If gangplank oranges the first part, why should it remove the second part, if this was added, why shouldn't Gangplank be able to orange Urgot's ult marker. I know they aren't the exact same thing, but this is the best example. Morgana: Yea it seems stupid, though I think it might be this way so zoe is not denied by Morgana for being able to land her ability. If it was changed to the way that makes sense, if Morgana see's her ally got hit with a bubble(which morg should of blocked first, if this was any other ability), she just has to oops and black shield that person within 2.2 seconds(a lot of time to react when playing) and they are ok. Sorry if it sounds attacking/biting, but these were the reasons
With the Morgana thing: that is the point of Morgana's Black Shield, is it not? I mean rank one it is like a 17 second cooldown, I don't know the cooldown on Zoe's bubble but it is certainly shorter. I think it is just an oversight, if anything.
: Patch 7.24 notes
I think certain runes are still falling short at the moment, Phase Rush being a much worse Stormraider's Surge, and I've never seen Glacial Augment (not saying it's bad, but I have not seen it even once so I don't know if it is just not worth taking or if I haven't been in the right games where people use them). Still waiting for Zac to be like {{champion:113}} {{champion:57}} or {{champion:516}} and not just be an extension of his teammates. All those tanks do decent damage but because of Zac's absurd amount of CC he is pretty much like a utility jungler. I used to be able to assist in coming back from games by making Zac plays, but now he is only good if his team is doing good, and is bad is his team is doing bad. It kind of makes for an uninteresting experience. And I know Swain hasn't gotten a skin in a longer time but they plan on updating him, I would like to see a Kindred skin since their Super Galaxy skin is honestly kind of ugly and I don't think there are any plans to update Kindred anyways.
Ðaoko (NA)
: How? You must be lying unless you spent blue essence on something else. You're gaurenteed at least 810 blue essence per level up, leveling 10 times would net you 8100 blue essence, 300 more then needed for Zoe.
810 BE when leveling up? How so?
FaZe HaX (NA)
: i dont like the galio changes. reducing his damage so that you have to get ap if you want to do moderate damage, which means your missing out on tanky items that are important.
I don't understand the problem here, isn't he supposed to be a tank? Aren't you supposed to build tank items, not AP?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 20
Are you going to consider looking at {{champion:203}} while looking at junglers? It seems they need some changes (they seem to need buffs to base movement speed, as well as base armor, as they have the lowest out of any jungler), if not a full rework to fill the theme of hunting and chasing, rather than dueling/kiting.
Sõõ (NA)
: You guys need to re-buff Lucian... He has a 43% winrate midlane and a 45% winrate bot. Just because he's strong midlane in the current meta for pro's doesn't mean you should make him literal trash.
They do that pretty often my friend. {{champion:154}} {{champion:13}} Both have really really poor winrates but {{champion:13}} is still picked/banned pretty frequently by pros.
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Gamma Anomaly

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