Rioter Comments
: Twitch's Q is also better than Regnar's ultimate lol.
You can see I crossed out Q. I meant his W in which stacks with his passive and works with his E. kogmaw has nothing like that
Paroe (NA)
: What kind of interaction? You could have it mark enemy champions, and kogmaw moves faster towards marked targets and refreshes the mark with bio arcane barrage attacks?
literally anything - twitch ~~Q~~ W costs less mana and has a lower CD and interacts with his kit perfectly.
Rioter Comments
: So HOW exactly this is balanced?
: There is no point to it cause you shouldn't be dying in the first place as kog {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
so then kogmaw gets only 4 abilities while every other champion gets 5 lol ok
: Looking through my post history, I could care less if meta whore was gutted. Just saying your reasoning (and attitude) isn't exactly constructive feedback as to why ahri is strong, we know she is but this post doesn't strengthen the reasons why.
No idc about how strong or weak she is , what I care about is how my champions kit isn't entirely accessible unless I die and when I die the damage I do is also on a champion Q ability that she gets MS and heals from. It's a joke
: TBF Kog'maw is an AD carry/caster. All of his damage comes from his %health autos, his spammable ultimate, his resistance shred, and synergy with items (on hit). I wouldn't expect kog'maw's passive to be stronger or even close to that of mid laner who actually needs that damage (remove kog's passive from kit, he'll be fine but maybe miss a kill or two more and like 20 CS. Remove it from ahri, she can't duel anything all of a sudden.) It's like using lee sin's Q as a comparison to jinx's ultimate execution and calling it OP because of the cost difference without looking at the rest of their kits.
she won't lose her dueling potential if the true damage is removed. You keep saying resistance shred when his Q is single target and shreds up to 27% if it lands. ult is not spamable unless you have 2-3k mana. Keep defending your meta whore
: You comparing a skill to a passive
A skill which is spammable and a passive which activates when you die
: kog isn't supposed to deal massive true damage but to shred everyone with W from range
Then what's the point of his passive?
meowwow7 (NA)
: yeah but ahri also doesn't have a %hp magic damage range increasing buff that shreds through just about everything late game
is this your only argument? kogmaw is gated by this ability so much in the late game that it's not worth using UNLESS the enemy team blows all their gap closes/ultimates. my point is that kogmaw passive in the sense of true damage and how you have to die to use it. Whereas ahri gets it from using Q over and over again. But go ahead and keep talking about his %HP dmg
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
SickAnto (EUW)
: PoV, for me, Caitlyn and Draven are realy boring to play.
draven is plenty fun to play with his axe mechanics. caitlyn is downright boring and uninteractive.
: vayne tumble auto does more than her headshot late game
and vayne is a late game champion so of course she does more damage late game.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: The point was she doesn't have a strong mid game compared to the mid ga me ads n about the same as the as crit late game ads outside maybe Bayne n twitch. She's simply a lane bully who actually does have a power trough n although a strong late game it's not as good compared to most other non mod game ads
she spikes everytime she builds a crit item. which is literally midgame. she builds shiv and rfc and she spikes like crazy. look you can tell me that on paper "she is supposed to have a bad mid game because she has no attack speed steroid" which is bull shit. she can triple head shot you completely fine + her AS steroid from that. you can keep saying what you want because all of you say the same thing which is "she has a bad midgame" whatever dude
: best scaling in the game? {{champion:114}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:75}}
not sure about other champions but i can tell you for sure that kog'maw only scales with 2 things. attack speed (for all his on hit items) and enemy HP. literally nothing else whereas caitlyn scales with crit which modifies how well her passive does. on-hit is absolute garbage comapred to crit. if you think about is, on-hit is a stead x/y slope on a graph whereas crit is like x^2 (half the parabola). the more crit you get, the more damage you do based on your crit %. caitlyn in particular has really good passive that works with crit which is the reason why she's problematic. she builds 3 crit items, life steal and she's set with her disruptive kit.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: Techicaly kog at lvl5 on his w n trist at around 16 have longer ranges. Cait is annoying but compared to mid game ads such as draven, jhin, and luc her mid game is crap and her late game compared to kog, jinx, twitch, and trist is not as good. I feel like ashe n varus also are better late assuming you don't step on a trap.
where did i say she had the longest range? also kog'maw range is conditional on his W which relies on CD, his level and mana and trist has to wait till level 16. seeing how most games tend to end rather early trist doesn't get to be level 16 hence why she isnt' doing well and isn't played that often.
NiamhNyx (NA)
: Lots of people who dont know how to play around cait today.
whats to play around? her 650 AA range? her 950 net range? her "charge system" 800 trap range? how do you play around a champion that has the best range & scalings in the game. not to mention she builds RFC now which is just disgusting
Rioter Comments
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: I disagree
whats the point of saying "no" or "i disagree" without explaining why
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I disagree, they are defensive enough already, I'd rather not have someone escape 10 hp cause they got some form of shield/resistance off of a dash.
i think it's better than a free spell attack or reset or whatever but to each his own
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Can we get a tiny buff for Ezreal?
sure make E prioritize champions but reduce its CD recovery from Q
: They have the same mechanic on them. Veigar Ult does far less to people on full HP. Same for Koggles.
well if you're only looking at it from a %hp mechanic then yes they're similar. but for the most part if veigar catches you with his ult its 1) unavoidable without dodge mechanic or zhonyas 2) guaranteed kill on ADC by landing W and R kogmaw R is a skill shot poke/"execute" with terrible poke dmg per mana and awful execute capabilities.
: It does behave as an execute in the same way Veigar ult does. The damage scales up the lower the enemy health is. However it can change the damage it'll end up dealing while in the air, so they don't get indicators. Twitch/Ahri/Vayne do amounts of true damage throughout their kit. Getting a kill does not change their gameplay afterwards as it does with Cho / Garen / etc.
how can u compare viegar R nuke to KogMaw R tickle?
: Chogath's gameplay depends on his R, Kog's doesn't. The cds aren't even close. In addition, Cho does true damage, whereas Kog doesn't. They put indicators on true damage abilities.
does twitch / ahri/ vayne have indicators on their true dmg abilities? kog R is supposed to be an execute (from Riot words) but does not behave that way
Rioter Comments
aggron88 (EUW)
: I think the ult shuold be like in s6 state, with triple damage when under 25% so it's a real execute. Also w was manaless but adc kog doesnt have mana problems (talking about non trynity build)
he doesnt have mana problems if he only uses his 1 useful ability (W)
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZbGjXTJz,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-06-10T05:22:31.937+0000) > > positioning pertains to any champion in the game. what you said isn't exclusive to caitlyn. additionally, caitlyn isn't punished as hard as other adc's (ashe, kog'maw, varus) for mispositioning. so i have no idea what you're talking about You're entirely wrong here. While Ashe, Kog'maw, and Varus are ADCs who are punished harder, they have a lot more leniency on their positioning. They all have extremely useful tools to aid in a fight successfully from either longer range or a more secure position. Varus has extremely superior poke from much longer range AND has his ultimate to bail if he mispositions. Kog'maw has loads of extra poke and can use his ultimate for even longer range poke. He also melts the tanks/fights that could get on him if he mispositions only a little. Ashe brings volley for a good aoe poke, has slows on every auto to peel for herself, and also has her auto as a bail out. If Caitlyn mispositions, she can place a trap that is easily walked around or can use her net to create a small gap. That's significantly less self-defense than the other champions. Further, she needs to auto attack in these fights continuously. She can't just send in long range poke until the enemy team is damaged and has to back off. She needs to actively step forward. Her auto attack range gives her the most reward for correct positioning, but she also has the smallest margin of error. Nearly every champion in the game that would want to engage, can engage from 650 range. All of them can do so with flash up. She has an advantage, but she needs to position well to use it. She doesn't have the mobility of a lucian/ezreal etc... to get out after a mistake.
> While Ashe, Kog'maw, and Varus are ADCs who are punished harder, they have a lot more leniency on their positioning. They all have extremely useful tools to aid in a fight successfully from either longer range or a more secure position. Varus has extremely superior poke from much longer range AND has his ultimate to bail if he mispositions. Kog'maw has loads of extra poke and can use his ultimate for even longer range poke. He also melts the tanks/fights that could get on him if he mispositions only a little. Ashe brings volley for a good aoe poke, has slows on every auto to peel for herself, and also has her auto as a bail out. I do agree that Varus and MAYBE Ashe have very good poking tools but I heavily disagree that Kog'Maw's poke does reliable amount of damage. Varus Q is extremely good, scales well, and has superior range compared to Caitlyn Q, the damage is nearly tied (until level 5 Varus Q) but at a higher cost for Varus by 20. Additionally, Caitlyn Q is a 1 second channel, giving the enemy champion that long to react whereas Varus Q can be baited and is 4 seconds to channel. Kog'Maw poke on the other hand is either his Q, E, or R. Q does negligible damage at early levels and the resistance shred, as you said, melts tanks. But thats all it does VS tanks. E costs way too much mana to use for the damage it provides and is usually for self peeling or csing. R is decent poke but nothing like it used to be. The enemy has to be below 40% health to do damage. The scalings are actually shit since Kog'Maw builds little to no AD (scales with bonus AD). Kog'Maw usually takes SRS as his mastery and why do you think that is? Because his positioning is 100x more important than Caitlyn's. You talk about her needing to step up and auto but Kog'Maw literally has to constantly step back and auto repositioning constantly vs heavy engage. All in all, you saying that Caitlyn needs to be played like a chess game is hilarious. Why is she played in her "chess game" 38% of the time holding a decent win rate for months at a time? Don't tell me everyone is good at chess because that's complete bullshit.
: Hasn't Caitlyn always been one of the "opt to this if you can't play the role well" champions simply due to her AA range?
: She has a low skill floor, but she has a much higher skill ceiling than people give her credit for. Trap placement (in and out of team fights), net use, etc., separate a good Caitlyn from a poor one. Given her playrate, I'd say this in itself is an argument that maybe she's a little overtuned. But there's nothing wrong with a champion that's simple enough to pick up and play at a basic level, while also rewarding those who invest into learning their ins and outs.
placing 3 traps infront of blue path to dragon and 5 alongside river towards baron hardly attributes to high skill ceiling. the infuriating this about caitlyn is that she isn't punished hard enough. often times she can simply disengage anyone with her net. there is little downside to playing her
: > [{quoted}](name=omnicron007,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZbGjXTJz,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-09T21:13:37.035+0000) > > Under no circumstances would such a retardedly boring champion {{champion:51}} have such a high playrate. There are other far more interesting ADC's that get no play time solely because of how broken this champion is. The recent nerfs did nothing. How is it that because you think a champion is boring, all players must find her boring? ADCs like Caitlyn play a different game than those like Lucian or Ezreal. Caitlyn's game is entirely positioning. It's much more like a chess match - if she knows what she's doing and positions correctly she has a huge advantage over her enemies. Sure, her kit may be as simple as right clicking, placing traps, and using a net when she's in trouble. That doesn't mean her gameplay can't be interesting though. Believe it or not, there are people who enjoy this game that aren't in to LCS Big plays. They want to play a larger metagame and win with superior strategy rather than superior mechanics. Those players are drawn to champions like Caitlyn. Those players are also drawn towards the ADC role in general. It's no surprise that Caitlyn ends up with a high win rate then. I would argue that Jinx is in a similar position - slightly more mechanical play and slightly less strategically rewarding but along the same direction. She was insanely popular for 2 whole seasons. These players exist, even if you're not one of them.
positioning pertains to any champion in the game. what you said isn't exclusive to caitlyn. additionally, caitlyn isn't punished as hard as other adc's (ashe, kog'maw, varus) for mispositioning. so i have no idea what you're talking about
: yet she falls off after 1st back , she has no attack speed steroid and she is typically bad mid game. her two biggest strengths is range in lane at start of laning phase and her late game 6 item crit build but most other adcs out scale her ... or have better 1 vs 1 dueling potential or highly mobile
you're repeating the same thing that everyone else says. on PAPER she doesn't have a midgame because she doesnt' have any scaling AS passives or steroids besides her headshot. to make up for that she builds zeal after BF and actually thats pretty much where that build started. caitlyn finishes runaans before completing IE BECAUSE it gives her AS AND got her to her headshot passive more frequently (prior to changes to the interaction)
: http://imgur.com/a/NQrpv take a look .. if she is broken then why she is middle of pack ?
she has a 37% play rate - that means that there is 1) higher data pool 2) more people playing her will influence people who arent particularly good at ADC to play her 3) skill floor makes it easy to play, easy to play + how much dmg she outputs = more people wanting to play her she's the middle of the pack because more shitty people pick her up and play her. if you look at only high elo statistics you'll find that she has a much higher win rate https://gyazo.com/747dd860b8ddc55cad92388d9c4f1f38 edit: i filtered games to show only challenger
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Hope this isn't as broken as it sounds
they were too lazy to work around the original mechanic. hilarious that this is the result
: will you be willing to lower his late game power?
late game champions such as vayne, jinx, and twitch have a perfectly fine early game compared to kog so why should his be lower?
Rioter Comments
: So.. Malz, Kog, Rek, Kind have all gotten "fixed" and soon Leblanc.. Context on Rengar? Please?
kog didn't get fixed he was reverted (not even fully reverted) bc they were too lazy to work around his unique ability
Rioter Comments
: Similar to twitch.. Scale up into a high dps target that can do insane damage. The issue was that with the old rework he would just get 3 items and then sit still and right click and melt EVERYONE. He's meant to be that kind of ADC that you protect and let them be your main source of damage.
I understand that Kog'Maw would stand still and melt everyone and I understand why they changed/reverted him (partially reverted) but what I don't get is they pretty much left him in the dust leaving him his 5AS build (Rageblade, Runaans, Wits End, BoRK) instead of encouraging his S5 midgame-late game build (Triforce, PD, BoRK, IE). They took two broken pieces and put them together, painting over the cracks and presenting it to corporate.
: Its not nearly the abomination that his old kit was with the 2x attack speed cap. Again, i don't play every champ in the game regularly but that doesn't make me ignorant of their kits.. I'm not gana sit here and pretend like i'm a kog'maw expert.. but i'm not delusional to the point to see that old Kog was completely broken.
I'm not talking about S6 Kog'Maw at all. You're missing my question completely. I simply asked where does Riot want Kog'Maw to be? They made an innovative change then completely scratched it without putting any thought into working around the unique ability. Since you brought up the fact he was overpowered I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with you. He was very overpowered, but why didn't he have a high play rate for months like Jhin, Lucian, and Caitlyn did? They were strong in their own metas/ways but not as strong as Kog'Maw yet more popular. Changes to them were hesitant whereas changes to Kog'Maw were abrupt and punishing.
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General KogMaw

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