: So, I've played eight Mordekaiser games today to see how the changes pan out in the live game after having gotten an initial feel of them on the PBE. And I'd be lying if I said Mordekaiser didn't change much. Losing half the efficiency of the slow as well as the stats was rather noticeable and It really doesn't feel right in game. Prior to the changes I managed to keep up with almost any of my victims due to the 40% slow and occasional SrS speedup. But now champions with Tier 2 boots, Zeal items or any form of minor mobility advantage can rather easily get away, leaving you unable to close the gap and bash them with your mace. Not only this but the lower stats somewhat gimped his late game a bit as it kinda dips after 30 minutes or so due to less AP feeding into your shield and less Hp. I'm totally for these changes, in fact they're pretty darn good! It does hurt Mordekaiser a lot though due to being overly reliant on Rylais. His base stats in particular are what makes this even more noticeable. With literally the worst base MS he can't really keep up and with less than stellar base hp and resistances he does not feel as tanky as he should. On a related "juggernaut" note, thoughts on Quas Nasus' build and how people seem to have a problem with it?
I'm no longer a playtester (I used to be), and I'm also a dirty Mordekaiser secondary (90 ranked games last season), and I share your concerns. Rylai's was warping what Mordekaiser was supposed to do by giving him consistent ability to close from range. This, in turn, required him to sacrifice strength elsewhere. Mordekaiser will take a hit, but can now be balanced around his kit, not Rylai's Crystal Scepter.
: Patch 6.20 notes
Hey everybody, I'm the dude who wrote this patch note. Unfortunately, I goofed. This feature is coming, but not in Patch 6.20. We didn't get QA signoff until too late in the patch, and somewhere along the line our product team and our comms team miscommunicated. While I've delivered a lot of bad news before (nobody likes it when their champion loses 5 AD), I'm really sorry to be the bearer of this bad news. Like you all, I am excited to see this in game, and I look forward to enjoying it with you when it goes to live. This feature will be on PBE soon, and we intend to ship it with the next patch. EDIT: As an apology, I have attached this drawing of Vayne. I'm uh...not an artist. http://imgur.com/0Lhf2wP
: Pretty sure he will no longer be able to jungle anymore. Unless you really use your passive well.
Can confirm ThEntropist is really good at using Kog'Maw's passive
  Rioter Comments
: The cooldown pings are GREAT! Cant believe how useful this feature is guys! How did we even play this game without them. Wish I could ping items like spooky ghosts or other blade of the ruined king(I'm pretty sure it doesnt work for them.... not sure though)
Playing on live without them for the last few weeks has been so frustrating. I'm glad we've been able to ship such a satisfying feature... If only I could stop myself from trolling by pinging my Q on Skarner. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
: Hey guys thought i'd pop by after i played a few games just a few points 1. Leona early game zzzz . what lvl 2 all in ? meh guess another favourite champ gets reworked for the worse. Her stupid auto attacks dont even get noticed in the middle of a fight. Her flashy abilities were cool, the extra auto dmg is really dumb and unnoticed tbh. Sure it can add some power but it doesnt feel satisfying AT ALL. during a team fight do you look to see who leona is auto attacking? NO. you look to see where her skills lands. Dumb mechanic that barely got noticed by me, let alone my teammates. 2. SONA IS OP ! WOW what changed with her? just looks like you buffed her spell ranges. She is damn strong 3. Can you explain how sona's ult cdr ties in with item cdr? I read somewhere it stacked? But it still shows 40% on the champ info in game. 4. Lee sin buffs <3
1 - Her level 2 all-in is *10* damage weaker. And has a 2-second lower CD on Q. 2 - **Stronger early: ** Power Chord, W, E **Weaker post-6: ** All basic abilities **Lower cooldowns post-6: ** All basic abilities **Stronger late: ** Power Chord, Q, W, E 3 - It's not CDR; it's base CD reduction 4 - Don't get too excited :P
Xealouz (NA)
: Hey guys! I've applied twice for the position at Riot on the Playtest QA team and I've come up short both times (the first time I made it to a third phone interview). I've been high diamond since season 3 (masters for most of season 5) and I'm wondering if you guys could give me any advice that could help me get a leg up on the competition the next time I apply! League and gaming is my greatest passion in life and I'm always looking for ways to improve myself as a person so any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated!
For me, the two most important traits are ability to logically analyze and ability to communicate in a concise and yet informative manner. That's not just for Playtest, but for life. Framing something in a way that gives them new knowledge while summarizing what they already know is such a skill.
aCup of Tea (EUNE)
: Hello, I'd like to ask about Taliyah, please. I read that her E is getting dmg reduction, and from the part about her from the past it seems more nerfs are intended for her because of unlocking her self-silence. Taliyah has quite a number of weaknesses and her late game is one of them, with reducing her damage how did she fare in your tests please? I understand that W + E combo is now easier to land thus more reliable but that doesn't really change her that much, overall damage she can dish out is the same as before (if you landed the combo) actually it's just lower because of reduction and higher CD on W. Thank you very much. PS: Am I too late with a question?
From what I understand, unlocking her spells in that moment made her damage so much more reliable and was causing late-game problems in the hands of experienced players. She's currently got a pretty high experience curve, so we want to be careful not to make her a champion who is too strong in the hands of a main.
: Hey Riot team, do you plan to buff or rework aatrox anytime soon?
We actually playtested an Aatrox rework awhile back, but it got iceboxed. We know Aatrox is a problem but - if I had to hazard a guess - he is more likely to get reworked as part of a systemic update than an individual champion rework.
: Fifty Shades specific?{{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
I do enjoy champions that many would consider...uncomfortable to play against I prefer my opponents immobilized
: **Air/Cloud Drake:** Our beloved Drake gets a much needed buff. But it may be too much :/ 25/50/75 Ms to max. 112,5 Ms with elder is a tiny, tiny bit too MUCH. If you consider the existence of deadmans Heca, Voli and Olaf will be faster then a Jinx Ult.... Basicly making "running away" not possible, if it was even possible before. But what should we do then to make the Drakie on par with the others? Give it %Ms and Out of Combat Ms! And maybe a second buff! So i would do: 25/50/75 Total Ms. But with 3/6/9% Ms and the rest OutofCombat Ms(3% Ms ~10Ms, so you get 15/30/45 Out of CombatMs). Or bring total Ms down to 20/40/60 (90 with elder) if the additional buff is to strong. And for the buff I would give it 5/10/15% slowresistance! (22,5% with elder). This even matches the Air theme, while giving it a certain importances vs slow heavy teams, but does not destroy CC reliant combs( Every Champ has some slow or buys rylais... so its usefull vs anybody)
Hmm. I play largely juggernauts, and I guess here's why I would be afraid of that buff. Slow resistance takes away the one thing that really keeps them in line, and that's susceptibility to consistently applied ranged slows. I don't think it's a bad idea, especially at 5/10/15% slow resistance (which is reasonably low). I'd be a bit concerned about it being something that only appeals to juggernauts because I would be *all over* that shit but I wonder if most players wouldn't find it uncompelling.
: so the champ is LITERALLY crazier does that mean he is crazier than jinx or is that too far?
: I am not a Sona player but I have played against her often. Is it just me or is this champion unfair? I don't quite understand these buffs. Her only skillshot is her ult which hardly misses, it's incredibly frustrating to deal with her unless you have an adc and support that push really hard. Would like to hear from other players, though fair comments.
> [{quoted}](name=FAR CRY DREAM,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HRveja4e,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:44:26.863+0000) > > I am not a Sona player but I have played against her often. Is it just me or is this champion unfair? I don&#x27;t quite understand these buffs. Her only skillshot is her ult which hardly misses, it&#x27;s incredibly frustrating to deal with her unless you have an adc and support that push really hard. Would like to hear from other players, though fair comments. > [{quoted}](name=FAR CRY DREAM,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HRveja4e,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:44:26.863+0000) > > Her only skillshot is her ult which hardly misses > [{quoted}](name=FAR CRY DREAM,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HRveja4e,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:44:26.863+0000) > > her ult hardly misses You've never seen my Sona :(
: Sorry if this is asked already. Why are you nerfing Leona's damage so hard for such little compensation back? That new passive is barely compensation for taking 100 damage of her R plus a lot off her Q and W. I like to play her top and jungle and this will severely hurt her damage output because you guys want her to have "more to do after her combos."
By my count, you're losing the following (lower range is level 1, upper range is level 18) 0 - 20 damage per sunlight proc 10 - 30 damage per Q 0 - 40 damage per W 50 (level 6) - 100 damage per R For a total of 10 - 250 (4 sunlight procs) damage overall And gaining 90 (level 6) - 250 damage from autos On top of that, you're gaining an additional 3-5 sunlight procs from your ultimate and a lower CD on Q. I have a hard time interpreting that as a nerf. Each empowered auto gives you 75/122.5/157.5 if your team procs sunlight, and you're getting 3-5 of them. Seems like you only really need 1-2 to break even (on a single target). You'll lose a bit of AoE damage but my guess is that you'll more than make up for it by landing multiple autos, and a lower CD Q should give you greater peel power.
Kei143 (NA)
: Leo's Q range increased by 20; 1. how many teemos is that? 2. Why is that 20 range a significant buff?
Trundle gained 50 range and it gave him a 6% win rate jump back in 5.23. Range is pretty huge. In this case it probably won't have the same level of impact (less range and only for one attack), but it should add some reliability to the stun in cases where you're using it without having used Zenith Blade to get in.
: *gasp* new champ info XD
I haven't played recent iterations **of** the new champion, but I played with them on my team recently and enjoyed the hell out of the experience. To be fair, I enjoy very specific things about LoL
: TLDR- How is sona mid lane and support affected by these changes As a sona player (about to hit lvl6 with one more s rank) how do these changes affect her playstyle in a solo lane like mid lane? I ask because I have had some great success in patch 6.13 with her in mid lane but I was wondering how the reduced Q damage will affect her in mid lane and support as well. How does this affect her with Lich bane as well? I feel like it will maximize her chances to use the proc more offer now I do like the The other changes as well especially the W scaling changes. Keep up the good work!
I pinged a few playtesters who had more experience, but I saw her mid in a few games and my general impression was that her laning phase was weaker, but she was **insane** when she got going with items: fast, with a stupid amount of long-ranged burst, sustain/a shield to live. Can't run, can't chase, only dying.
  Rioter Comments
: Good to see you around, Gustaf. Now how about them Irelia nerfs?
: I just wanna know what you guys feel about the current state of the game overall in your own personal opinions. In your eyes is balance in a good state at the moment or are things a bit unstable? Is it fun for you as it is, or do you think things need to be in a better place to make it fun? What do you guys feel PERSONALLY about the dynamic queue controversy? Is there anything you guys want the game to have that it doesn't? I'd like to avoid political answers here if possible as this is just to settle my own curiosity. Thanks for your time. :)
I find that I'm happier when I don't think of the game in terms of balanced/unbalanced. Right now I've just been spamming games on my favorite champions, balance-be-damned, and I'm back to loving ranked as much as I used to. I'm not convinced there's a "done" state of League of Legends where the game is balanced; the system will always fluctuate with the meta (and actually with the meta, as in with what champions are played not because they're game-theoretic dominant but because they're the optimal response to the currently played shit). Personally, I never play dynamic queue (I've always preferred solo to duo even because I find solo queue kind of zen (just me, my music, and Elo). I also don't really care if other people do; it doesn't impact my game experience. But as somebody who did a lot of ranged 5s, Dynamic Queue feels much better than that old system of long queue timers and playing against either Challengers or Silvers. Too much of the dialogue around dynamic queue feels similar to Elo Hell (people finding excuses). I adopted the mindset that losing was 100% my problem to fix when we were all in solo/duo and I'm not going to change that no because I believe in improving, not passing the buck. When I was playing LoL years ago, the two things the community wanted was fewer randos so they didn't have to "carry" and role selection so they could only play what they wanted. EDIT: Inb4 I come back from my weekend to find that everybody on Reddit hates me for not hating Dynamic Queue :D
: > [{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gustaf,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=lKFQipoE,comment-id=003d0001,timestamp=2016-06-29T20:15:13.201+0000) > 3) He&#x27;s a simple - mechanically, at least - champion so he tends to optimize his results pretty easily. A lot of the skill involved in playing juggernauts is making sure to choose the *right* course of action, rather than executing it, thanks to the fact that they tend not to have dashes for escapes. So...do you think dashes or escapes makes you mechanically harder to play as? I mean, yes, I agree with your basic point that Volibear is significantly less complicated and easier to play as than most champions with dashes or escapes, but I don't see how 'has an escape' makes you hard to play as. If anything, it'd be the opposite.
I think it makes the decision-making more crucial. If I'm Lee Sin and I end up somewhere I shouldn't be, I have multiple ways to get out of that situation. If I'm Volibear, I'd better hope I'm tanky enough to just run away and there are no walls in the way :P ...To be fair, I'm probably tanky enough.
: I love this patch. Personally I feel like RIOT has listened to many of the complaints that community had. Things like the ranked 5s, high elo matchmaking problems also involving dynamic queue. And of course the infamous dynamic queue "boosting" were all BIG problems ever since the release of dynamic queue. In this patch however, RIOT has implemented many of the suggested solutions and overall just made a big step towards a more balanced and fun league of legends. Such as, special icons for different kinds of ranked players, the return of ranked 5s, fixing high elo matchmaking (to the extend possible without giving all players in high diamond and above 60+ minute matchmaking) and also just balancing all those stupid champs we all were complaining about. And sure, some stuff might not be optimal, but its alot more then I, and I think most people, expected. Thanks RIOT.{{summoner:30}}
:) that's good to hear We know that there's been a bit of instability recently and - frankly - that some trust has been lost. I think that's a good incentive for us to return to our roots of communicating heavily on the ground. Personally I'm excited for Ranked 5s to return. It's been frustrating not being able to play in a ranked environment with my much lower level friends and I'm excited to get out there and smash with them!
kearndog (NA)
: As somebody that has played a lot of Volibear, I don't think your changes are going to do much of anything to stop his dominance in the jungle. Every Volibear who is worth his salt knows that you max your bite first, and the final values are unchanged. I personally feel like you aren't even touching the part of Volibear that I consider to be his pain point--His Passive. His passive is always available to him. It activates far too many times per game, and I don't even have to plan around it. It's just always there, making him unkillable right when the other team thought they were about to slay the Volibear. Personally, I think his bite is a bit strong, but I think that if you changed his passive to weaken him in that area, you wouldn't have to steal power from his iconic bite.
Hey Kearndog, I don't know if this was the answer you were expecting, but I agree. There was a lot of discussion as to how we should change Volibear because there are a lot of factors at play here. 1) He's a pretty underplayed champion, both currently and historically. If Zed had his win rates, he'd be 150% pick-ban. 2) He's a "main" champion. That is, most people who play him play him because he's one of very few champions they play. As such, he has a lot of mains and mains of a champ tend to do better. 3) He's a simple - mechanically, at least - champion so he tends to optimize his results pretty easily. A lot of the skill involved in playing juggernauts is making sure to choose the *right* course of action, rather than executing it, thanks to the fact that they tend not to have dashes for escapes. With all of those in mind, we agreed that he needed a nerf. I identified four points I'd like to see changed. Note: I am not a designer. Playtesters often discuss with designers to serve as a sort of sounding board/advisor. 1. The raw power on his ultimate - Because it's such a low-impact ability, it needs to have high power to be appreciated (similar to auras). - However, it's currently pretty damn efficient, so trimming some fat there could be useful. 2. The reliability of his Q early game - It's all too-easy to catch and fling somebody through mild CC like a short stun or a medium slow - Personally I wanted to drop his Q duration to 3-4.5 seconds (the numbers are made up, but essentially a nerf early but a slight buff late) 3. The reliability of his passive - You've spelled out the main issue with your passive: you plan around it occasionally, but mostly it's just up and makes you unexpectedly tanky. 4. The damage on his bite - Particularly the health and missing health scaling, not the base value In my opinion: 1) couldn't really be done without making the ultimate feel pretty shitty. It's quite strong but you already don't feel it especially in a crowded teamfight. It's also hard to say what the impact of that would be, tbh. 2) I think is the best change from both a balance **and** feels perspective. - As a pretty heavy Volibear player (I terrorized playtests with him for awhile and he's my highest win rate main), I feel that his Q is far too good at getting onto people unless you take at least 1 major CC (Morgana Binding, for example) or 2 minor CCs. - In the laning phase, this means that your ganks are pretty damn strong for somebody whose gameplay is "I run at you". Even if you do manage to counter-gank him, his passive means you probably lose as he's just waiting for his bite. - In teamfights late game, his Q feels pretty bad against a team that tries to stop you from diving, on the other hand, so a slightly longer duration could help with that. 3) is just hard to appreciate in the playing against case. Playing against it is still frustrating, and even if it happens less often, that will mostly just force slightly safer play by a Volibear for 10-30 seconds. 4) You actually need that damage late game. It's only excessive in the midgame (which is where juggernauts tend to shine). Ultimately, the design team decided to focus on W. As you said, this shouldn't stop his dominance, but it may be the tap we need to knock him down towards the other top junglers. Given his low play rate and high main rate, it's probably ok for him to be a top jungler, just not the king. I'm not saying I think this was the best change we could have done, but I think it will get the job done? But if we have to revisit him, know that his passive is an option (although I'll personally be pushing for that Q change). It's important to note that game design is a complicated process, with a team that has a general goal, a designer that has a specific goal, a number of advisors from Playtest or Insights (our data team), and in cases like me, Rioters who main the champion or class in question. Especially for patch-to-patch changes, there are a lot of factors to consider.
: Yes, but the person you were replying too was complaining about support the role. Your anology was talking about a particular class of champion. They're not comparable. There isn't required to be a juggernaut every game, but there is required to be a 'support' every game, even if that support is Brand or Trundle or something.
I'm certainly not going to disagree with myself :P > [{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gustaf,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=lKFQipoE,comment-id=0012000000010001,timestamp=2016-06-29T18:24:26.910+0000) > > Now, obviously this is different from supports. You can&#x27;t **have** a game without a support, whereas you can always play without a juggernaut, and that makes the broad appeal of the role **more** important.
: please fix nasus and make him playable again (competitive level) .... like put a ratio for his stacks? first 100 stacks = 5 for regular minions - 10 for monsters/champions after 101 stacks = 3 regular - 6 monsters/champions after 401 stacks = 2 - 4 after 501 = 1 - 2 and so on {{item:3074}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:75}} {{item:3078}}
Personally, I think what's cool about Nasus is having such a weak early game but knowing that if you weather the storm you will scale out of control. 400-500 is what you want to leave the laning phase with by around 20 minutes, so it would be pretty frustrating (for me at least) to hit that point and not be scaling. On the other hand, it would also be frustrating to play against, because even if you keep him down early, he'd get up to 400 or so relatively quickly. Just my personal opinion, though; other Nasus players are free to differ
: To be fair, you're comparing a class of champions with a role in the game. If you don't want to play a juggernaut, you can play some other champion top lane, but it doesn't matter if you're playing a vanguard or an enchanter or whatever bot lane, you're still playing 'support'.
The thing is, most of the time players are more attached to a class of champions than a role. You can see more about it here on this Dev Blog we did which predicts which champions people are likely to play from the other champions they play! http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/find-your-lunch-table-which-champs-are-friends?search=skarner&submit=#Skarner
: Here, I have an idea. Why not make some items exclusive to subclasses so that balance changes are way more easy to deal with. It could also help new players with items.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
It's hard to do things like this because people are going to disagree about champions' classes. I'm going to take an example close to heart: Skarner. There's some dispute over whether he's a Juggernaut or a Vanguard, and as a Skarner main I think he leans Warden. So if we restrict what items he can buy, we now cut off players who have different ideas as to how the champion is played. Essentially, it removes some room for innovation/ingenuity.
Kei143 (NA)
: Even in an RPG, if you are in a team, the EXP is split up amongst the team. If you just put 1 person in your party, he'll level faster cos no exp is being split, hence you get to power level him.
I can't be the only person who intentionally power levels 1 or two SUPER COOL characters at the expense of everybody else in the party, and filter all the gear through them first :D
: Now hold up. You can take enemies ulted by Skarner through Ryze's ult? ...That is glorious. HAIL THE THE SCORPION!
You could at some point during production. I'm not 100% sure you still can but I'm pretty sure? Sorry for the uncertainty; I'll tell you next time I get a Ryze on my team
: That's why the champions that were made to support have higher base stats and more utility in their kits pre-6 and tons of power on their ultimate abilities. They don't need items or exp to be amazing its the skill of the player. That's what I'm almost sure 100% of the support player base will say. I know that's my opinion and I love what riot's doing to the support items and exp. Its more rewarding to do your job and that's what supposed to happen. I doubt you play any support and if you do its probably not well seeing how greedy you sound in your play. If you were to give them fair amount of exp and gold it wouldn't make sense because they would literally be getting gold and exp for standing around and doing nothing while an adc has to focus on harass and last hitting and the enemy support while you get to harass and zone and get free money for it.
The hate support gets has always felt weird to me. I play mostly tanks, and I'm ok with those champions doing no damage, and whenever somebody says "X tanky champion just can't carry", I just think "Cool, you play your champion, I play mine, and that's fine. Just don't complain that what I think is fun isn't fun to you"
: Unfortunately people don't feel passionate about the way the support role is supposed to be played. People don't like the the support role, hence one of the reasons the match making queue is long, why people troll the support role, and why nobody fights over the support role in normals. The support role needs to be replaced by role that people can feel they can carry with, not just baby sit the adc and ward. You described it nicely, but people are not interested in doing that.
What's weird about this all is that there are a lot of people who like support. In my anecdotal experience, there are 4 types of support players. 1) Bot laners - they just like playing in tandem with somebody 2) Controllers - they like jungle/support and controlling the flow of the game 3) Tanks - they like tanks, whether that's top or support (or jungle?) 4) Mages - they like mages, whether they're mid or bot But they're a subset of players. Most players who like players who like mid mages don't mind playing top mages when they're meta, and vice versa. The same isn't true of these tandem pairs. I think it's because while the roles are similar, their playstyles are not. Developing the skills of last-hitting is a different thing than developing the skills of map pressure. In my opinion Relic Shield is one of the coolest support items because it allows supports to participate in a pretty fundamental part of the game that many supports miss out on. I'm also glad that there are support items that *don't* force that. A support/jungle main might feel pretty frustrated by that change. As a jungle/top main who used to main top, I feel like as I've developed as a jungler, my csing has gotten significantly worse, so there feels like a parallel to me. I haven't really answered you, unfortunately. Mostly I've just rambled in the direction of your comments. Let me try and give an analogy... Most people don't like juggernauts. Their gameplay bores many people, although those who **do** enjoy them tend to be juggernaut mains and love the shit out of them for the strategic, not mechanical aspects of their play. So do we make juggernaut gameplay fulfilling for those players, knowing that it won't attract other players? Or do we make juggernauts fit the image of other classes, thus making them accessible to other players? Now, obviously this is different from supports. You can't **have** a game without a support, whereas you can always play without a juggernaut, and that makes the broad appeal of the role **more** important. Anyway, these are difficult questions. We obviously want to make support more appealing to non-supports because those characters and player fantasies are cool and more people should have access to them. But we also want to retain which makes support uniquely appealing to that subset of players. Questions like these are always on our radar, but they don't have easy answers that will please everybody.
: Just a question I have wondered about for awhile now. Why is so much True Damage being given to so many Champions({{champion:103}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:67}} I may have missed a few), it makes it rather annoying to play against especially since you can't build against it. Also what is the purpose of having True Damage in the game, is it just to make a Champion a lot stronger or am I missing something? I hope I'm not repeating a question and i just missed it or something. Any help or explanation is appreciated keep up the hard work guys and remember "Mother always said Don't Lose!"
Thanks for your question Vexatious7, The different types of damage (and penetration) champions build should tell you a lot about their targeting style. For example, characters with low target selection often just have to hit what's there. For skirmishers, that's because they're melee, and diving into combat is inherently risky. For ranged champions, it's typically because they're immobile or low-ranged and have to hit whatever's available. Both % health damage and true damage (as well as % armor/MR pen) allow those targets to not feel bad about hitting tanks - when that is often their optimal option. So why do champions like Fiora, Vayne, and Vel'Koz (and many others) have a lot of true damage or % health damage? Because they will often be wailing on tanks. We can't just buff up their damage , though, or they will destroy squishy champions when they get the chance.
Eph289 (NA)
: We see Vlad and Irelia changes in 6.13 to address dominating picks in competitive play, but what about Azir? The guy has been top-dog for over a year in mid, and if your champion can't lane against Azir, you probably have to ban it away in competitive. I know he was nerfed some recently, but that hasn't stopped him getting picked at all. Hyper-scaling mobile bursty lane bully . . . feels like at least one of these has to give.
Do I know you? Your name looks awfully familiar {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
ItsYusif (NA)
: Oh yeah that's true, didn't notice. :o What about my other questions, though? :3
2) They do stack! Heal away :D 3) Personally I don't feel bad about it, but when I started jungling, every jungler had to spend $800 for an item that they couldn't upgrade at all so maybe I've got some Stockholm Syndrome... But in general, it doesn't bother me. As a support/jungler I rarely hit full build anyway unless it's a really long game. At that point when everybody's full build my three wards are so powerful with so little vision on the map that I don't care that much? I do find it a bit frustrating to not have a pink at that point, though...
Hextor (NA)
: I understand that Gustaf but i believe supports should be able to stay on par with marksmans for exp since they share the same lane as them and the level of a champion can be much more critical to a fight than items. Is it in riots intentions to bring the supports on par with any other dual laning compositions in further patches in terms of exp. Meta's change, game's change so pro players too can and maybe the game could be more healthy that way too.
I think what's important to note is that they don't *always* share that lane. If they did, they'd stay even in XP. Let's say we made it so all XP the marksman gets is split in half and the support gets half. What happens when the support roams and fails? Is there no experience loss for that failed play? What happens when the support roams and gets a kill/assist? Do they pull *ahead* of their marksman? Does the marksman get half of the experience for their play?
Hextor (NA)
: It's is based off RPG's and follows the same principles of a team of heroes fighting ennemies and leveling up. There is no reason the healer would receive less exp than the rest of the team. Somehow the design behind the game also shapes the community into what it is as you know it with the support role only being secondary in the team some players will discard/discredit it's importance (as seen in mage supports exemple: Brand, Annie). If Player's see supports as weak and unappealing why would they respect thoses who play them or play this role, when they can bask in the glory of their scores when a master yi can chop down a whole team on it's own and a Zed eliminate alll but the most tanky targets on the field. Take a step back and you will see what i mean, most of the peoples who play League of legends only revel in what they can do alone and not as a team no wonders this game as reached such a point of toxicity.
> [{quoted}](name=Hextor,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=lKFQipoE,comment-id=00120000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-28T23:43:55.287+0000) > > It&#x27;s is based off RPG&#x27;s and follows the same principles of a team of heroes fighting ennemies and leveling up. There is no reason the healer would receive less exp than the rest of the team. Somehow the design behind the game also shapes the community into what it is as you know it with the support role only being secondary in the team some players will discard/discredit it&#x27;s importance (as seen in mage supports exemple: Brand, Annie). If Player&#x27;s see supports as weak and unappealing why would they respect thoses who play them or play this role, when they can bask in the glory of their scores when a master yi can chop down a whole team on it&#x27;s own and a Zed eliminate alll but the most tanky targets on the field. Take a step back and you will see what i mean, most of the peoples who play League of legends only revel in what they can do alone and not as a team no wonders this game as reached such a point of toxicity. So, experience is a bit complicated. There is nothing about support class champions that says "they gain less XP". However, unlike in an RPG, a lot of their role involves roaming and controlling vision, which moves them away from the main sources of XP (minions). That being said, the changes to XP while dead or XP when behind should help supports somewhat, but certainly not to the point where supports will keep even pace with other champions.
ItsYusif (NA)
: Ayyyyyyyye! 1. I don't quite understand the TK update, so his passive from ult used to increase his AA damage by 2%/4%/6%, And now that it's moved to his passive, his AA's deal 1/1.25/1.5% of his max health and stack up to 3 times, so it's 4.5% of his max health at 3 stacks, How is that specified as a buff? (I understand that his Q and ULT are buffed but he deals less damage after level 11) 2. So the passives from forbidden idol, ardent and mikael's don't stack right? 3. How do you feel about wasting an item slot for a 1600 gold item? (ruby sightstone) or do you usually sell it at late game?
> [{quoted}](name=ItsYusif,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=lKFQipoE,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2016-06-28T23:33:11.926+0000) > > Ayyyyyyyye! > > 1. I don&#x27;t quite understand the TK update, so his passive from ult used to increase his AA damage by 2%/4%/6%, And now that it&#x27;s moved to his passive, his AA&#x27;s deal 1/1.25/1.5% of his max health and stack up to 3 times, so it&#x27;s 4.5% of his max health at 3 stacks, How is that specified as a buff? (I understand that his Q and ULT are buffed but he deals less damage after level 11) > > 2. So the passives from forbidden idol, ardent and mikael&#x27;s don&#x27;t stack right? > > 3. How do you feel about wasting an item slot for a 1600 gold item? (ruby sightstone) or do you usually sell it at late game? Just to give some context on your first question, his passive used to scale off of bonus health, not max health.
Quepha (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gustaf,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=lKFQipoE,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2016-06-28T21:56:54.252+0000) > > Same goes for skirmisher. I totally disagree here. I'm actually quite surprised that Skirmishers weren't on the short list for class updates next to Divers, Assassins, and Vanguards since they are usually straight-up bad unless they're balanced like an assassin (Jax) or balanced like a diver (Fiora). They have this desire to attack targets and a way to get to the target, but unless they kill the target instantly (which they're not supposed to do) or are weirdly tanky (which they're not supposed to do) then they just fail.
I should have been more clear, but by "same goes for skirmisher", I mean "it may turn out that their issues are not itemization-related", not "The class is fine". That is to say their problems could be any number of things, and we certainly wouldn't want to rush a solution before fully identifying the problem. EDIT: but "next to Divers, Assassins, and Vanguards" still puts them a year or so down the line if we maintain our current pace of 3-4 updates (some minor, some major) per year. That's a lot of time to figure those issues out.
: What happened to Leona, it says she got buffed but I don't see any changes in patch notes. Could someone tell me what happened to her
This looks like an error on our end. There were some Leona buffs planned (I think they're still on PBE?) when Patch Highlights was drafted, and while Leona got taken out of the Patch Highlights video, it looks like she got left in the infographic.
Invariel (NA)
: While it is somewhat disappointing for the patch advertised as "the support patch" to have changes to more top laners than supports (11 vs. 6), I understand that every patch has to bring the game closer to a state of balance, and that the item changes should push things more heavily into the "this is actually the support patch" camp. With that said, I have a few questions, mostly ward-centric. 1) Why two and a half minutes for ward levelups? That's exactly the maximum duration of a Sightstone-family ward, and longer than a Warding Totem ward can ever be. Only visible wards will ever level up, and that makes me sad. 2) Are there any thoughts on adding a range indicator on placed friendly wards? I think it would help coverage issues better than spitballing, "One over here, one in this bush, ..." 3) The only time I find myself building a Ruby Sightstone (historically) is when I'm playing a champion for which Talisman of Ascension is the better path of item, and I've finished the rest of my build and have a Sightstone in my inventory, taking up space that I wish it didn't. Please sell me on the updated (and thankfully somewhat cheaper) slightly redder version of my vision-planter. 4) What is the design methodology behind the Sightstone upgraded gold-generation items having the exact same effects (minus the active) as the non-vision-based gold-generation items? Why do the non-vision upgrades not function more competently at their other purposes? 5) I said that these would be mostly ward-centric, so with the team finally revisiting Blitzcrank and giving him some (on paper) nice changes, what will it take for his Rocket Grab to start a few units in front of him instead of on top of him? He's a bulky champion and I can't count the number of times I've snagged an overlapping minion that is blocked by his bulk, or an enemy champion who appears to be behind me, so that the target escapes. 6) Are there any thoughts around making Stealth Wards duration be tied to their hit points? It is incredibly frustrating to get two hits off on a ward before my true sight (or actual vision of the ward) disappears, meaning that it gets to taunt me (invisibly) with its presence for its entire duration, while I know that it only has one hit point remaining. 7) Are there any thoughts around adjusting vision based on user-created terrain? It would be interesting if Crystallize or Weaver's Wall (which I always make a Donald Trump reference when I see... "WE'RE GONNA BUILD A WALL!!") could impede vision when placed correctly. Thank you very much.
Yeah, I think the systemic and item changes are there to revamp supports, while the top lane changes are mostly of the "oh dear god please let this champion stop killing everybody" variety :P I'm going to hit a few of these questions for now. 1) How are you supposed to taunt opponents with your big-ass wards if they can't see them :P 3) More actives all the time. I think it ends up not being worth it on live because you'd much rather get the eyestone (for gold) followed up by Aegis (for teamfight strength). Currently, that's because Talisman of Ascension and Face of the Mountain are underwhelming. My assumption is that with more people getting Talisman of Ascension, being able to use your actives more often becomes **huge**. Being able to use Mikael's/Banner/Locket/whatever more often is - to me - worth it. On top of that, the power of the two initiation gold-item actives being up more often feels pretty strong to me. 7) Personally I think vision-impeding mechanics are among the most frustrating in the game (Graves' Smokescreen always tilts me off the planet)...not to say they shouldn't be in the game, of course, but that might be one reason to not suddenly add a number of them into the game.
: I have a couple questions about {{item:3069}} 1: Do you believe the changes to {{item:3069}} could almost be a buff to champions that rely on speed to engage fights? Now that supports will most likely be building it more often. 2: Do you think Sivir will also become more popular now that she'll be able to pair her ult with {{item:3069}}? (Since her support might be building that more often)
As a juggernaut main, I hope this means I'll see more tank supports building Talisman of Ascension and making me stupidly fast when they initiate :D
: For the new Ryze,... 1. Do you still max q? Or e? 2. What's your favorite moment with the new Ryze? 3. How does jungle Ryze do? I can see Ryze have decent jungle clear and above average ganks.
I was playing Skarner and ulted somebody and dragged them into Ryze ult with me. That was hilarious :D
: Different classes have different capabilities of really specializing into their core fantasy because the item system doesn't uniformly support the various classes. A core item should ideally amplify, enable, or support the capabilities that identifies your champion from others. There can't and shouldn't be a unique item for every champion, so core items are consolidated across champions based on the similarity in their capabilities. Not long ago you spent some time thinking about how champions in league can be classified based on differences and similarities in their capabilities. Here is a list of the subclasses and the items that directly support their capabilites: #Vanguards {{item:3800}} #Wardens {{item:3110}} {{item:3105}} {{item:3401}} #Juggernauts {{item:3748}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3068}} #Divers {{item:3078}} {{item:3022}} #Assassins {{item:3156}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3147}} #Skirmishers EMPTY #Burst Mages {{item:3285}} #Battle Mages {{item:3157}} {{item:3001}} #Artillery Mages EMPTY #Enchanters {{item:3504}} {{item:3050}} {{item:3222}} {{item:3069}} #Disruptors {{item:3092}} #Marksmen {{item:3031}} {{item:3508}} Notice the above items only cover those which directly support the common agenda of all champions belonging to the subclass. That doesn't mean all items must fit some sort of subclass agenda. There are generalist items that work for multiple classes like: {{item:3089}} {{item:3035}} {{item:3135}} There are situational items that do something more specific-- a role rather than a subclass, like splitpushing for example: {{item:3512}} There are items that are even more specific than that, for example: {{item:3139}} There is a swath of offensive items that offer situational power for marksmen and other primary damage dealers: {{item:3153}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3072}} {{item:3812}} Some items are specific to a certain kind of damage dealer, one with on hits or mixed damage for example: {{item:3124}} {{item:3146}} Note that many of these groups are underrepresented and many of them are over represented. There isn't really any item that is dedicated to the agenda of all artillery mages for instance. I suppose disrupters scale so hard with cooldown reduction, any core item you provide would have to compete with that, and thats probably not possible unless it was a double cast or something. Likewise, there isn't an item that is dedicated to the agenda of a skirmisher, which according to the subclass dev blog is to "shred through any nearby enemy that approaches, but lack in high end burst or reliable ways to close on high priority targets". The closest item that supports that agenda is last whisper, but it a generalist item not an item specifically tailored to the needs of skirmishers. So here is my question: Can we get a core item for artillery mages and a core item for skirmishers please? In case you are wondering what I am thinking by "core" item for skirmisher and artillery mage, I mean something that really orients or even commits your champion towards the skirmisher/artillery agenda: Salamander Saber (melee only) 20% attack speed 20 attack damage 20% crit chance unique passive: "Converts some of any physical damage dealt into a damage over time effect. 20% as true damage over 4 seconds." Magic railgun 300 mana 80 ap passive: "hitting any enemy champion with an ability builds 1 charge. Max 10 charges. Receiving damage removes a charge." active: "consumes all charges to launch a magic projectile that bounces. Deals 100 + 10% ability power damage. Gains 1 bounce and 100 range per charge."
Hey Critkeeper! Thanks for your analysis :) Your post is a bit of a long one but it's on my *favorite* topic in LoL, so I'm going to give it a similarly detailed response. But I'm just sitting at work spitballing, so it will be a bit scattered, and there's a chance I'll make some silly mistakes or say something that's only partially true or leave out something cool I'll wish I'd elaborated on, so I hope you don't mind! But the TL;DR is that you're pretty spot on that we haven't reached full role-item array saturation. Whether or not full saturation is a good or a necessary thing is a bit harder to say, but let's start from the assumption that it is (this aligns with my personal beliefs). When LoL started, class distinctions were very blunt and vague: AD carry, AP carry, tank, bruiser, support. As such, the items were relatively imprecise: did you want AD, AP, tanky stats, or team-assisting actives. I believe the first real distinction that started getting made - itemization-wise - was with melee champions. People used to get into arguments over what a "tank" was all the time. One set of people just said tanks were any champions who built tanky. Back then, people would call Dr. Mundo and Jarvan and Nautilus all tanks. It was an imprecise world. The other side was saying that there were two types of tanky champions. One class of "tanky" champions was gold hungry; they built the exodia build of Warmog's Atma's Trinity Force and scaled pretty well, to the degree that they became one of the most frustrating classes in the game. Soon, the name "bruiser" stuck. This stood in stark contrast to "tanks" could build nothing but gold items and still do well. Of course, it was actually even more complicated than that because junglers like Mundo and Shyvana would build jungle items *and* build tanky AD. The other contrast was ADCs; you basically had two classes of ADCs; BT first and IE first champions. Fast forward a season and you get Black Cleaver and the Youmuu's rework and people started to realize that AD Assassins were a class that had just needed items to function. We stopped calling AP Assassins at some point and started calling them burst mages because AP Assassins tend to have CC while AD assassins don't. To avoid this being a lengthy history lesson, over the last 12-months or so, Juggernauts got their items, and then ADCs got their itemization rework, and then there was Mage Update. We've been working on the class list behind the scenes, and as you can guess from those three updates, plus the upcoming assassin update, one of the big initiatives at Riot is updating each class to have a clear identity. A lot of things determine what classes get updates. Juggernauts got theirs because they were probably the least supported class in LoL. We just overweighted them with stats because the game systems didn't allow them to function. Marksmen got theirs because the class was relatively indistinct. You mostly just picked one of the marksmen that was strong at the time because they were so similar that style rarely mattered. Assassins, on the other hand, are getting their update because they're one of the most frustrating classes to play against, so there's a huge impact on live to their existence. When we update a class, we typically want to hit three things: kits, items, and systems. For example, with juggernauts that looked like this: Kits - Removing excess mobility, changing scalings, Items - making more mobility items, introducing items to match those scalings. And that leaves systems. What do I mean by "systems"? You'll note that many juggernauts scale with Base AD (rather than Bonus) and Health. This is intended, and allows us to tailor items to them by loading them with those stats. But here's the problem. When we reworked juggernauts, we didn't also rework every other champion. There are plenty of other champions with Base AD or health scaling, and those champions *also* love the juggernaut items. Given that those items are overloaded at their goal of filling the weaknesses of the juggernaut class, they often ended up heightening the strengths of champions who could take those items without having those weaknesses. For example, Darius needs Dead Man's Plate to chase most champions down. But if a champion like Jarvan can take that item efficiently, he can just chase you down with all of his gap-closers. And while Titanic Hydra is aimed at juggernauts, other melee champions who like Base AD and health can grab that and go on to also build damage and be this weird tanky never-dying champion who can still one-shot you (Fiora got pretty scary for awhile there) Artillery champions benefit highly from regular AP items, and it's quite likely that the reverse would be true. And so it requires a good deal more care to make sure we don't accidentally make it impossible to balance all other mages just to give Artillery champions their items. Or it may even turn out that Artillery champions don't have differing itemization needs from generic mage items because their class already hits its niche so hard. Same goes for skirmisher. I hope this gives some context: you're definitely right that those classes don't currently have class-specific items. It's a bit harder to say whether that's a problem. It's even harder to turn that problem into a design solution, especially when there are more pressing - or more easily solved - problems nearby for us to tackle.
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: actually it only reduced the duration of CC, not the effect of them.
There's an important point about the difference between slows and other CCs to be made here. Slows have two numbers; a degree and a duration. Other CCs, on the other hand, only have a duration. CC reduction reduces the **duration **of CCs, so you can avoid being perma-CC'd. Slows are relatively spammable (red buff or Ashe Frost Shot or IBG are pretty clear examples), so reducing the **duration ** of a slow often does little for you. Reducing the amount of the slow, on the other hand, can allow you to get onto that pesky ranged kiter (and most melee champions have ways to stick once they're on their target). While sometimes they fulfill the same purpose, the two types of CC reduction are pretty distinct.
: What are your thoughts on maybe not a majority agreed point but logically agreed on by many that part of tanks oppressiveness comes from too much of everything. Most have readily available CC with a few having hard CC in their regular skills, all have massive amounts of self sustain, all the best ones have %health/increase damage based off tank stats(armor/health)/straight free damage increase. Really the only thing that they don't have is that they aren't ranged type champs.
I actually don't agree. If those champions didn't have % health damage, they'd need higher base damage (or I guess more CC) to ever damage other tanks (and thus avoid noodle fights). % Health damage allows tanks to hurt each other without upping their damage against carries.
: So. When are you going to be nerfing Irelia (and Volibear, and Zyra, and Kayle, and a bunch of other balance outliers)? Also, thoughts on how the new Triforce affects Nasus? Personally, I'm thinking that if it stays the way it is, he'll never build Frozen Heart again. Of course, after the way that y'all totally butchered FH in the first place, not many people do.
The increased CDR on so many items has made Nasus feel really weird. CDR is really his core stat in a lot of ways ; especially early CDR, so TF seems like it would be a great purchase. Building Stinger as a component could either feel really good - earlier 30% CDR - or really bad - no early Movement Speed. I think it'll turn into an "are you ahead/behind" and "what's their magic damage like" case. As far as Volibear goes, he's one of my favorite champions, and I've been advocating for nerfs to him ever since Preseason 6 and the changes to defensive masteries. I'll keep fighting the good fight!
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Gentleman Gustaf

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