: Know what's really hilarious about this Infernal Amumu chroma controversy?
> > Where does it end Riot? > > Where does it end? When people finally speak using their wallets. Don’t give riot money, they will change fast.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jaspers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tWsgyf0Q,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-18T09:49:12.279+0000) > > Just to nerf a champ to make it look like you are doing something when in reality you want that champ to stay strong. how do you want that champ to stay strong if the win rate decreases, if the champ wins overall less Graves nerf? it made him lifesteal less against monsters, clearing less fast=ganking less fast=taking more damage from monsters, this is how base stats nerf works. the champion is LESS strong they just don't know WHY he's less strong so they're like "graves can still do a lot of damage he wasn't nerfed" but don't realise that in a 5v5 game if graves can help his team less it's going to massively affect his performances
The guy above you has a point, it isn’t even about winrate. Its about what does it doesn’t feel great to play against. Zoe, Azir and crew might be “balanced” right now but it still feels like shit to play against them.
Jaspers (EUW)
: I think the Rylia's changes ins 6.24 had a big impact on their usefulness/priority.
{{champion:82}} cries silently unnoticed in the corner
: So that's how all of my adcs keep getting snared and hooked.
: And then there are people like you who flippantly disregard factual reasons as "excuses".
I mean a lot of my games arebplayers playing meta champions that they have no experience on and sucking dock with them... Just look at ez with his 45% winrate
: will bruisers be even more broken? LOL
Can you even call them bruisers when they are basically assassins?
Rioter Comments
Leto GT (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NqzkKjcl,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-17T22:38:55.836+0000) > > Several boards posts about how: > > "Turret changes have made early advantages mean nothing. Now you just stall out games forever." > "Everyone runs the same rune stats each game. Where was my OLD RUNE SET UP of <obviously very bad loadout>" > "Anyone miss Season 8? I know we hated it but I'd take THAT over THIS." Barricades will drop at 10min. Ppl won't see any change.
I'll get less first towers. I rely on minions dealing most of my damage...
: Why should they? Because low elo has nothing else to complain about? Tell me how to upload clips here. This overpowered conq jax with 4 items vs the 2 items maokai who "doesnt feel like a tank anymore". I show it. How this maokai literally takes no dmg it is absurd to me.
I don't think people are saying tanks are weak anymore. What players want back are all of those middle tanky champs with mixed item builds. Armor and MR feels like ass right now, but for them to buff it they need to nerf tanks...
: Bruiser item update gets delayed till mid season. We also nerf trinity and conq. Tanks get buffed. We buff magic pen since too many people pick MR as their flat stat. Some new broken garbage rune noone asked for that is 100% picked and breaks the game. Towers buffed, dmg from minions to towers buffed. Autoattacks deal 10% true dmg to towers by default, the tower buffs made games take too long. We also buff kha zix again cuz why not.
> [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NqzkKjcl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-17T20:09:49.754+0000) > > Bruiser item update gets delayed till mid season. > Tanks get buffed. > We buff magic pen since too many people pick MR as their flat stat. > Some new broken garbage rune noone asked for that is 100% picked and breaks the game. > Towers buffed, dmg from minions to towers buffed. Autoattacks deal 10% true dmg to towers by default, the tower buffs made games take too long. > We also buff kha zix again cuz why not. I thought this was funny, but then you said... > We also nerf trinity and conq. That sounds like something they should do... so my guess is buff conq, and trinity...
iV0lt4GE (EUW)
: I gotta admit, compared to all the other preseasons we have had, this one feels really small considering that we will only get rune changes and shields to turrets, but nothing else other than dat. Anyways, my prediction is buffs to champs with shit waveclear/nerfs to champs with good waveclear/shield gold nerf. "We find it that people get a significant advantage when pushing early, we wanna change that."
Karakot (NA)
: I’m sorry, but isn’t every champion supposed to have a gimmick, something that makes them unique? Why in the world would we want all champions to be the same and not have cool gimmicks...
Yea, but when your gimmick is to dash burst someone and then get free outs it is a balance issue.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: you played over 1000 games this season on a smurf? wow
Rock MD (NA)
: There's 3 ways to be good at the game. 1. You're legitimately good at the game and understand the mechanics and inner workings. 2. You know what to expect from the enemy and know how to outplay it. 3. You cheese your opponent and out-mechanic him. If you actually know how to play the game, you should never have issues with climbing up to D5 MMR... unless you knowingly forego common sense because, "lul it's just silvers." and then it's your fault for underestimating them. They're not mentally handicapped they just aren't efficient players. If you know what to expect and how to outplay it, good fucking luck. Again, they're not efficient players so everything you know about jungle pathing, throw it out the window. Just punish punish punish bad overextensions and force pressure into your lane while minimizing deaths. If you cheese and out-mechanic your opponent... well I don't assume you do since you play easily outplayed, immobile mages. So you're either intentionally playing bad because you think low elos are subhuman or you're expecting them to play the game at a plat level and you're left both confused and frustrated. Neither are inherently the fault of elo hell, they're your fault.
> [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0uGjJELj,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-10-17T01:26:58.368+0000) > > > 3. You cheese your opponent And then murder his ass repeatedly till he afks
: Riot, I don't think diamond players like your reworks
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8QWrRuai,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-16T19:22:38.929+0000) > > [stat sauce](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/diamond/by-banrate) > > > {{champion:164}} - 32.6% ban rate (going on 2 years old, she's my cutoff champ for "relatively new") > I mean "relative" starts when you say it does... For me Yasuo is still "relatively new" His design is basically the paradigm of newer champions. Mobility + Damage Ability that allows you to conditionally reduce damage (or heal). Gimmicks (yasuo is 100% crit, pyke is sharing gold/etc, akali is shroud)
Vekkna (NA)
: The barrels, tentacles, daggers, and Morde's W are all just gimmicky as fuck in my opinion.
His W should have had a very very small heal if they wanted him to have one. Honestly I liked his old armor and MR version better. I think it was healthier for the game.
Vekkna (NA)
: She falls into the "shackled to a tedious gimmick" category. She's either camped out near a wall or she's basically dogshit.
I mean there is also her R on a full team With her testicle slams healing her gimmick
Vekkna (NA)
: I've said it before and I'll say it again. The vast majority of reworks since the Juggernaut patch have either been total botch-jobs or created more problems than they solved. My biggest bitch is that so much of the new shit is either input-heavy micro-skill checks or shackled to some tedious/cancerous gimmick. Examples: {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:555}}
> [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8QWrRuai,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-10-16T22:29:39.200+0000) > > > {{champion:82}} If they took his Dragon ghost power down, and gave him some god damn base stats he would be pretty comfortable to play.
: Okay, I can see this argument and I think it's a fair one. There are a lot of older champs that have trouble dealing with new ones. However that also means that there is a design creep of some kind going on here. As you implied, 80% of the champ pool basically needs a rework to keep up with modern designs. Given that it's impossible that riot is going to get everyone updated before their philosophy changes again, I can help but feel like riot made a mistake that's going to keep a large chunk of the champion pool at least 1 era behind the times. If, like I predict, riot's philosophy changes again before all champs are up to date, that's going to leave the game in a perpetual state were 75% of the champs are out of date. Perhaps riot's bar was too ambitious for the game's long term good.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8QWrRuai,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-10-16T21:39:39.726+0000) > > However that also means that there is a design creep of some kind going on here. We've known this since about S3. Its mobility tied to damage. Then we call it "skilled"
: I think that happens just because the kits of new/reworked champions are more thought out and have no glaring weaknesses. Compare any of these champions to someone like Master Yi or Wukong, there's no reason to pick them when other champions can sort of do the same things but without any of the problems that prevent those two from being viable.
Just look at {{champion:82}} It used to be: Got into Melee GG EZ Now its: Oh I died because you touched my butt once? Yea def like the high damage, high mobility, decently durable champions that allow me a .2 second reaction time.
: I am someone who hates losing,i started playing off meta picks and even if i lose i still have fun..
> [{quoted}](name=JohnnyNeverSins,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugRrR9Mw,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-15T10:47:44.165+0000) > >{{champion:82}} Who? Apparently i was most played Morde last season... he is alot of fun when you get some practice in with him. I do wish he was stronger so he was more competitive with the high mobility BS champs though...
: what if... the missions dont work correctly intentionally just so people have to watch more lcs in order to complete their mission and riot gets more sweet views
Mine all worked but I had the tab on mute, ad blocker up, the video was on 144p, the speed was set to 2x and I let it play start to finish... Let’s just say I didn’t actually watch them...
: If you think pro play's too slow and boring right now
Games could last 10 minutes I would still find them slow and boring. I just don’t want to watch, just like football... I like playing not watching...
wildfox9T (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vAQqogP4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-14T16:21:04.368+0000) > > Platinum decay should be at1 week, Diamond and above at 1 day. 1 at day is way too much (so if one day i'm busy i'm losing LP?),or what if i have a life and/or i'm in vacation? 1 game each month is enough if the guy is boosted,if he's trolling just report him
> [{quoted}](name=wildfox9T,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vAQqogP4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-14T16:34:05.601+0000) > > 1 at day is way too much (so if one day i'm busy i'm losing LP?),or what if i have a life and/or i'm in vacation? > > 1 game each month is enough if the guy is boosted,if he's trolling just report him I could see 1LP a day XD 20 days at 0 op is a drop or something like that... force a win ocassionally
: He's a hated design, that doesn't make him unbalanced.
I don't hate his design at all, he just suffers from power creep. He has too much in his kit for what drawbacks he does have. Hes basically like when they talked about Lee Sin being too well rounded in the past. Yasuo gets inate tankyness from his shield. He has High mobility -10% crit doesn't justify 2x crit chance His ulti gets a lower cooldown because he "Can't just press R" Windwall is a giant fuck you to all ranged champions, very little drawback except "long cd" which doesn't matter if it stops something like a syndra ulti...
: I see your point and it is a good point to make, your right in i did not think about that BUT, my point still stands as it is too slow to hit anything from mid to long range. Making it same speed as morgana is reasonable, morg q is already super easy to dodge so i dont see a problem making it as fast as hers.
I actually wrote an article about mobility vs. immobile champions 4 seasons ago, and how mobility was toxic for the game, and the only way for an immobile champion to compete with an overbuffed mobile champion is to buff their numbers.... well we hit that where everyone is fucking one shotting... We need to do a bunch of tone downs on damage, followed by mobility, so that we can have actual non-instant death gameplay again. http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4282128
: either build up MR or use someone with Hard CC like Blitz or cho.
Why would you build MR when it doesn't do anything?
: How the hell do I counter fiddle?
I'd say tank items, but those are just a myth of seasons past.
: To paraphrase "we're doing this because we're afraid some champions, cough yasuo will become perma banned so we'll do some work to help make him more tolerable"
Maybe they should ust balance his ass?
: defense never hurts for him. The "health" of his shield still works with defenses after all though lol, it makes me wonder about mordekaiser running around with dead man's plate for movement speed to catch those pesky enemies XD
I used to really like the defense for better shielding, but now I think you get more just from dealing better damage.
: to be fair, most people forget that he exists XD though there is the awkward case that if his health regen is higher than his usage, he would not need it, but I do not think that has been true since season five when {{item:3145}} was basically first pick for him
I feel like when they reworked Morde they were like "How can we make him more conditionally tanky" So they made him rely on healing/shielding... which to be fair worked pretty well in the older metas where you had time to negate damage through the healing and shielding. Now I just feel like a piece of tissue paper no matter what I build, hp regen/healing/shielding or not. So yea he is forgotten about because he nolonger fills that niche of a sustained battle mage.
kargish (EUW)
: I used to run double WotA with a friend as {{champion:8}} {{champion:50}} since you could get the benefit of your own and the aura it provided.
I did that with Aegis of the Legion double aura when you were the owner of one of the auras.
: {{champion:82}}
: Duskblade should be complained about the utility, not the damage. Duskblade damage only caps to 150 now. The fact it possesses a crippling slow and Blackout + ward detection regardless of cooldown (courtesy of buff bar) is what makes the item a bit too good. Can’t say much about the rest because WotA was truly trash on everyone, Gunblade can be utilized for hybrid champions if it wasn’t so expensive. Just wished we didn’t have a net loss of items throughout the seasons. We need more variety.
> Can’t say much about the rest because WotA was truly trash on everyone, {{champion:8}}?
: Some clear cases where the item designers didn't learn from past mistakes
> [{quoted}](name=Knickolas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA87l60F,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-10T12:09:12.963+0000) > > {{item:3146}} Meanwhile, gunblade remains in the game despite only being bought by two champions, champions who thanks to their incredible mobility and high damage also shouldn't get the fallback of healing all their HP if someone closes in. {{item:3070}} {{champion:82}} {{item:3070}} “Incredible mobility” you say?
: Another one was the "Harassment based on elo" which transitioned into the now "Rank shaming". Kind of feels like riots stance on ablest language "Can't say retard" > "Can't say mentally handicapped" > "Can't say boosted" "Can't say bonobo/monkey". You'd think riot would figure out a different system when the current model doesn't work. I guess riot is just insane, since they like to repeat the same thing over and over again looking for a different result.
It will probably be an issue with role based queues next year, Riot is pretty silly thinking that we all keep wanting something that doesn’t work. Look at how much hate we have towards champions that can instantly burst you, and then they just keep making more of them.
: And you're saying players _wouldn't_ do that?
My thoughts are that it Still happens, but it is slightly better with the role select. I do feel like if people get auto filled next season with role based queues it will come back. “Auto filled diamond mid, going mid”
: More people should be supporting this {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
> [{quoted}](name=PoseidonsFury,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nWM1a4X5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-08T18:30:00.537+0000) > > More people should be supporting this {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} The reason why Riot doesn't support it: They tried it a few years ago, and they found that players were even more toxic when they had to play normal games. The whole "Fuck riot for making me play normals" attitude made normal games shittier. They decided they didn't want that.
Shukr4n (EUW)
: So they can do fancy stuff without retaliation?
Their excuse when it shifted over. So players can't call roles and demand they get the role because they are "slightly" higher mmr. Bragging or some other shit was in the explanation.
: i truly want a morde ultimate skin but i find it unlikely that blizzard will never corporate with riot games blizzard has shown that they do not like interacting with other game developers also FOR THE LOVE OF AURELLION! GIVE US TOP LANE MAINS AN ULTIMATE SKIN!
I want one of the fancy blue skins they sell only during worlds...
Haqid (NA)
: This is pretty funny lol, looking foward to future comments on this discussion {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
> [{quoted}](name=Haqid,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Lits5sA6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-08T16:49:06.898+0000) > > This is pretty funny lol, looking foward to future comments on this discussion > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} The guy needs to add white space in the form of paragraphs. Reading everything without the spaces is awful.
NichtHurz (EUW)
: It actually is, just like shields can prevent enemies from cancelling your recall if enemies don't do any damage beyond the shield value iirc.
: I mean, it isn't really a bug, since Jayce essentially did 0 damage to yasuo. Even though he attacked yasuo, all he did, was proc the shield, which the tower would've ignored. The only case I could see for this being a bug is the cc not causing jayce to get the kill. Jayce essentially made his tower have to do more damage to kill yasuo
> [{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=o970kqUi,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-10-08T19:01:02.739+0000) > > I mean, it isn't really a bug, since Jayce essentially did 0 damage to yasuo. You are technically right. 0 Damage is 0 damage. Probably less of a bug, and more of a "working as coded".
Slythion (NA)
: I wish this shit applied to champions like Kaisa or Aatrox. I have no problem with balancing around LCS if it wasn't so selective in *who* the hit with nerfs
That is why the have the much flashy memes and not nerfing because LC$$$$
Rioter Comments
: I think the issue isnt so much that Ahri and Nami arent too strong. The issue is more like champions like {{champion:104}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:39}} are straight up dominating the game snowballing out of control. Im pretty sure almost anyone would rather have a Ahri or Nami on the enemy team than a fed Graves straight up 1v2ing you and your junglers. The issue is more that these champions are far more egregious balance issues and theres no nerfs in sight.
Compared to those cancer champs I love fighting Ahri and Nami.
: To add to your points. My main issue with changes to items and champions over the past 5+ years is that it **feels** that everything just has too much front loaded damage. Specifically base damage on abilities on tanks, supports and juggernauts. In season 1-2 for the most part, it felt like you were super tanky, but hit like a wet noodle when you built tank items. On the flip side, you were destroyed instantly due to being squishy if you built glass canon. This forced you to build for that specific match you were in and there was always a trade-off with building more damage, and that is that you would die a lot easier. Ultimately, I'd prefer base damages being lowered across the board in favor of an increase in AP & AD ratios across the board. This way you have the choice of being squishy, but dealing a ton of damage, or being tanky to soak damage & peel, but not really assassinating anyone. Right now on current patch, top lane Malphite can just ult bottom after teleporting in and just double kill the enemy bottom lane with relative ease. Even when building no offensive items or masteries, his base damage is just so high, he automatically nukes any ADC or support unless they are Alistar.
I want mixed damage/ tank builds to be viable again too. I loved having build variety and being able to win games by knowing the team comp matchup better than the enemy, or losing but figuring out what I could have done differently. Now I just feel like better champ/comp wins.
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