: In fact, tank items are *very* gold efficient. Check sunfire. Frozen heart. But mr itemization sucks and voidstaff is overpowered. Thats why tanks suck.
> [{quoted}](name=Aatrox Airlines,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GiUe0zqA,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2019-09-17T09:30:16.809+0000) > > In fact, tank items are *very* gold efficient. Check sunfire. Frozen heart. But mr itemization sucks and voidstaff is overpowered. Thats why tanks suck. Dunno, getting obliterated by any AD champion that either has true damage or built-in armor reduction combined with Black Cleaver, or assassins going Lethality+Cleaver even when building full armor against full AD comps isn't fun. Aside from a bare handful of tanks who are designed to counter those, the rest feel like they're building armor for nothing.
Juice (EUNE)
: Why would we want to make this game even easier for bad players? Bad players already have : Doran shield, teleport, corrupting potion, ninja tabis, bone plating, overgrowth, etc etc, why add even more bad things? The player is already diving you, giving you ample opportunity to outplay them, but somehow you need even MORE help ? Not to mention this rune is strictly laning phase rune, so it won't help you carry, it will only prevent the other person from carrying as you hug the tower and last hit falling infinitely behind but not allowing the other person to capitalize on your death because of a binary rune you took Why do you guys need Riot to hold your hand so much? You're supposed to fall behind in "hard" match ups, but if you are straight up getting dove and dying you are getting outplayed, and you deserve to die. Stop begging Riot to add more crutch mechanics for you. Top lane is already an impossible role to carry from, showing the least % win rate difference between mains and autofills, why make the lane even easier?
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GiUe0zqA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-16T12:58:21.765+0000) > > Why would we want to make this game even easier for bad players? > > Bad players already have : Doran shield, teleport, corrupting potion, ninja tabis, bone plating, overgrowth, etc etc, why add even more bad things? > You mean like assassins get super skill intensive runes like the one that gives free pen after leap/dash/invis or mages get ultra hard keystones to land like Electrocute? /s It's almost as if those runes let damage players ignore poking and spell rotations or ressource management and go for kills, because they can't be bothered to learn how to manage a lane. Rito forbid they'd have to actually put in effort beyond learning their 3-step combo. The reason this game, especially at lower elos but also at higher levels is turning into a ridiculous murderfest is in good part because there isn't a single tank item that's gold efficient, and that the definition of a good defense rune according to Riot is a rune that deals damage. Siege Master would be a tiny step in the right direction, and a tiny step towards bringing back some macro play in the game.
Naalith (NA)
: Ahh your last paragraph, you misunderstand the way of the rito gam. They usually won't just revert the dumbass buffs and nerfs they did exclusively for pro play, they instead say "well preseason is pretty soon so like the balance will change lol just deal with it." Reminds me of season 7. "We can't nerf Ardent Censor because Worlds is like 6 months away. Okay it's after Worlds and we finally nerfed it, but all this other imbalance as a result of the meta for the whole year changing? Well preseason is 2 to 3 months out so we can't change it."
> [{quoted}](name=Naalith,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bZnLfVB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-14T21:18:37.601+0000) > > Ahh your last paragraph, you misunderstand the way of the rito gam. They usually won't just revert the dumbass buffs and nerfs they did exclusively for pro play, they instead say "well preseason is pretty soon so like the balance will change lol just deal with it." > > Reminds me of season 7. "We can't nerf Ardent Censor because Worlds is like 6 months away. Okay it's after Worlds and we finally nerfed it, but all this other imbalance as a result of the meta for the whole year changing? Well preseason is 2 to 3 months out so we can't change it." Censer was *never* the real problem. It had been relatively strong but fine until the marksman item cost reduction which let them spike about 15 minutes earlier, just in time for a Censer rush, which made it an insane double whammy early game. Supports wouldn't rush Censer early prior to that because the item itself wasn't enough to make Marksmen insane. As a result Supports got one of their only really good items nerfed below cost-efficiency, while Riot could have easily just killed ADC's lifesteal options and solved a still ongoing problem with that.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Honestly I'm not sure if Riot would be ready to add a second character to Sona as the champion. Sure the past VGUs changed the characters quite a lot, but never have they added a second character to the champ.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8WKhW6xX,comment-id=00050000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T18:06:53.852+0000) > > Honestly I'm not sure if Riot would be ready to add a second character to Sona as the champion. > Sure the past VGUs changed the characters quite a lot, but never have they added a second character to the champ. It's not like what she is right now even *is* a character. Granted they might not go for my vision of her bit at least i know my version is A; an improvement, and B; true to her old lore. As it stands even most of her mains know what her old lore is so poorly they think she's literally nothing more than their musical big breasted waifu pillow. And, not gonna lie, that disgusts me. I'd rather Sona were deleted outright than taken in a direction that promotes that image.
: > [{quoted}](name=FallingMeteor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8WKhW6xX,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-09-09T23:34:39.750+0000) > > I just want Riot to keep Sona being a famed muscian, and Jhin hating her for stealing his spotlight. The issue is her instrument is floating, so she can just put a stand under it. Though her place in lore is kinda weird a mage in an antimage country, and also she's absent from both wars. Tbh I really dont care about Jhin's jealous salt toward her, and let's be real she's a footnote at most in his lore. I just dont want them to turn her into this morally-gray piece of garbage lile they seem to like doing. Just let us have Sona as one of the undeniably good people in this game. It's frankly ridiculous that they haven't updated her despite having focused on Demacia's anti-mage hardon for years now.
> [{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8WKhW6xX,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T03:54:56.725+0000) > > Tbh I really dont care about Jhin's jealous salt toward her, and let's be real she's a footnote at most in his lore. I just dont want them to turn her into this morally-gray piece of garbage lile they seem to like doing. Just let us have Sona as one of the undeniably good people in this game. > > It's frankly ridiculous that they haven't updated her despite having focused on Demacia's anti-mage hardon for years now. Sona's undeniably good? You mean the same Sona who discreetly developed a talent for killing people with music *just so she could test her skills* in the IoW? If anything, Sona's more like a mute Draven than a goodie two shoes. Janna's the nice one you're looking for.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Sona would be a really poor character for either of these concepts. If a darkin chose to stay in weapon form or someone would use a redeemed darkin, then the darkin shouldn't be just a silent object to a champ, they should be at least an actual character themselves, even if they aren't the champion themselves(basically imagine a friendly rhaast).
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8WKhW6xX,comment-id=000500000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T14:59:33.359+0000) > > Sona would be a really poor character for either of these concepts. > If a darkin chose to stay in weapon form or someone would use a redeemed darkin, then the darkin shouldn't be just a silent object to a champ, they should be at least an actual character themselves, even if they aren't the champion themselves(basically imagine a friendly rhaast). That's pretty close to what i envisioned, really. My vision of Etwahl as a person is off a very, very artsy Ascended, and she (im assuming female) keeps that as an anchor to her personality as a Darkin, so much so that she's unable to be sealed in a simple weapon, but rather in a musical instrument, or her preferred weapon which also was one. I'm imagining Sona's paren(s) finding Etwahl as an instrument in a cave somewhere in Ionia, Etwahl takes one over, quickly begins to decay but has the time to realize baby Sona's magical potential as a future host. Takes Sona to a place she's likely to have decent upbringing (the orphanage) before turning back into her instrument form. She then tethers herself to Sona (making her mute in the process?) and acts as a discreet protector to the child until she's old enough to become a host but has a change of heart midway through, possibly due to the child's natural artistic disposition. Etwahl influences Sona into developing her artistic sense. Later, Lestara Buvelle (who i'd lore up to belong to either an artsy or historian family), visits Ionia post-Noxian invasion as a diplomat, hears of the child and her instrument, and recognizes the Etwahl for what it is. She immediately adopts Sona and brings her to Demacia, hiding her latent magic as well as actually teaching her how to play. Sona develops her talents to epic levels, and becomes a diva. The result could be a Sona/Etwahl as beautifully interwoven as Kindred are.
GreenLore (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=GinoSoldier,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8WKhW6xX,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-09-10T09:57:44.575+0000) > > > Now if we can have her Etwahl be the Darkin Varus is still looking for on Ionia... Then that would be a total waste for a darkin. In all seriousness, with there being only 5 darkin in existence it'd be a waste to make a champion with a darkin weapon without giving us the option to play as the actual darkin themselves, because that'd mean that we'd get only 1 more darkin champ.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8WKhW6xX,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-10T10:38:27.265+0000) > > Then that would be a total waste for a darkin. > In all seriousness, with there being only 5 darkin in existence it'd be a waste to make a champion with a darkin weapon without giving us the option to play as the actual darkin themselves, because that'd mean that we'd get only 1 more darkin champ. That's a rather close-minded approach. There is currently no depiction of either a redeemed Darkin or one who is willing to stay in weapon form. Etwahl offers a unique potential as that character, and could serve to flesh out Sona as a character very nicely, considering she's mute and has basically zero backstory. And let's be honest here, we don't really need two more edgelords.
: > [{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8WKhW6xX,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-09T21:52:31.223+0000) > > Im just wsiting for Sona to get some lore. Yknow... the *other* mage champion living in Demacia? I just want Riot to keep Sona being a famed muscian, and Jhin hating her for stealing his spotlight. The issue is her instrument is floating, so she can just put a stand under it. Though her place in lore is kinda weird a mage in an antimage country, and also she's absent from both wars.
> [{quoted}](name=FallingMeteor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8WKhW6xX,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-09-09T23:34:39.750+0000) > > I just want Riot to keep Sona being a famed muscian, and Jhin hating her for stealing his spotlight. The issue is her instrument is floating, so she can just put a stand under it. Though her place in lore is kinda weird a mage in an antimage country, and also she's absent from both wars. I always liked that she's described as playing for sold-out audiences. Gonna be honest, she always felt more like a mute Draven kind of character than the boring archetypal good girl trope. Now if we can have her Etwahl be the Darkin Varus is still looking for on Ionia...
: Litraly every other role Trust mid is fucking meta atm Vayne and Lucian top have been things for ages Twitch and Kaisa can Jungle Marksmen are basically the only role which ISNT lane restricted
> [{quoted}](name=voidscaler,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jBJ03r9G,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-09-09T13:18:31.245+0000) > > Litraly every other role > Trust mid is fucking meta atm > Vayne and Lucian top have been things for ages > Twitch and Kaisa can Jungle > Marksmen are basically the only role which ISNT lane restricted Ashe, MF support. Kalista could *easily* be reworked into one. Kindred has potential.
Sucction (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f8W48oJE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-08T22:53:16.788+0000) > > Problem is uselessness of armor not MR. MR is already 10 times more effective than armor. Hey finally someone with a brain. Thornmail Mundo probably takes an adc about 6-7 seconds to kill. Adaptive Helm or Spirit Visage Mundo takes, depending on champ, literally half a minute or more. Only champs who might do it in less are Syndra and Taliyah or something.
> [{quoted}](name=Sucction,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f8W48oJE,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-09-09T08:40:16.012+0000) > > Hey finally someone with a brain. > > Thornmail Mundo probably takes an adc about 6-7 seconds to kill. > > Adaptive Helm or Spirit Visage Mundo takes, depending on champ, literally half a minute or more. Only champs who might do it in less are Syndra and Taliyah or something. That and having to stack 4-5 armor items to last more than 5 seconds against a Botrk Lucian alone. Doesn't leave much space for MR.
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TerraRising,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mz3MPyLb,comment-id=001e00000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T04:51:09.471+0000) > > Another instance of the data saying that the players who _were_ engaged with that content just aren't worth the effort? > > What the hell is really happening at Riot? Curious question than, how would you measure if something is effective? I totally understand the feeling if you were part of the small group that really appreciated the dev streams, but often times its really hard to justify sacrificing resources that could be used to benefit the whole just to service the few. If you had any ideas on how to track and serve the few without drastically and negatively impacting the larger group I'd love to hear them!
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mz3MPyLb,comment-id=001e000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T18:23:02.996+0000) > > Curious question than, how would you measure if something is effective? I totally understand the feeling if you were part of the small group that really appreciated the dev streams, but often times its really hard to justify sacrificing resources that could be used to benefit the whole just to service the few. If you had any ideas on how to track and serve the few without drastically and negatively impacting the larger group I'd love to hear them! It's just hard to feel like cutting off the cool stuff is justified (regardless of actual impact or involvement or cost) when so many other problems players see on a day-to-day basis seem completely ignored. It makes us feel like Riot as a company is just pouring less and less effort into the game, regardless of whether it's actually true or not. Things like mages being slowly shoved towards botlane and taking the place of the supports, damage and mobility creep, snowballing, various jungle issues, riot openly playing favorites with their champions during worlds, numerous cases of champions that feels abysmal to play against, the 1000-day skin club, Taliyah not getting the SG skin she totally should have had.... and so, *so much* more. Losing things like dev streams and the likes just *feels* like we're straight losing things for what seems to be no gain, gonna be honest.
: You are exagerating quite a bit. There has been the Juggernaut rework, the introduction of Lethality and Runes Reforged. Sure, turret plating is still a mess but we are talking about Riot. It's just a little mistake compared to the average fuck-ups they are used to do. Other misdeeds include: * Removal of Dominion and incoming removal of Twisted Treeline. * ARURF. * Eternals. * The sheer existence of {{champion:157}} , {{champion:238}} , {{champion:67}} , {{champion:84}} , {{champion:39}} , {{champion:141}} , {{champion:145}} , {{champion:555}} and {{champion:142}} . * {{item:3161}} . * Jungle plants; and in general any kind of change to the jungle since Season 5. And a lot more.
> [{quoted}](name=FrancisMuni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4wqVRhr2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-05T18:13:05.300+0000) > > You are exagerating quite a bit. There has been the Juggernaut rework, the introduction of Lethality and Runes Reforged. Sure, turret plating is still a mess but we are talking about Riot. It's just a little mistake compared to the average fuck-ups they are used to do. Other misdeeds include: > > * Removal of Dominion and incoming removal of Twisted Treeline. > > * ARURF. > > * Eternals. > > * The sheer existence of {{champion:157}} , {{champion:238}} , {{champion:67}} , {{champion:84}} , {{champion:39}} , {{champion:141}} , {{champion:145}} , {{champion:555}} and {{champion:142}} . > > * {{item:3161}} . > > * Jungle plants; and in general any kind of change to the jungle since Season 5. > > And a lot more. I really miss jungle camp buffs from smiting. Their removal made me quit jungling honestly. And considering how bad healers are *usually* at healing (relatively to stupidly high lifesteal) i might just quit support too.
OhBilly (EUNE)
: I really liked pre-rework Skarner, and found it hard to play him in his current state. Its not that he's bad- he is just dull, and worst of all- I can't really say he's over bearing, unlike some of the top meta picks that can do whatever they want due to design flaws. Riot's philosophy with Skarner was, basically, 'lets remove what made him unique and fun, and just slap some CC on him', which is lazy.
> [{quoted}](name=OhBilly,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AeT3vTp0,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-05T08:14:28.259+0000) > > I really liked pre-rework Skarner, and found it hard to play him in his current state. > > Its not that he's bad- he is just dull, and worst of all- I can't really say he's over bearing, unlike some of the top meta picks that can do whatever they want due to design flaws. > > Riot's philosophy with Skarner was, basically, 'lets remove what made him unique and fun, and just slap some CC on him', which is lazy. Playing devil's advocate here, but you can't deny his spires are unique. Maybe not well designed, but they ARE the only mechanic of its kind on the rift.
: Since Riot hasn't made one yet, I made an anime opening for the new Star Guardians!
Yea fam, don't get discouraged. You began and *completed* a project, and that's something most if not all your future and past critiques will never do. Enjoy the feeling of a completed work, and make the next one even better, for you, and not for them. Great work! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: I support you as long as you are being reasonable with the resistances buff. Resistances should add a nice little cushion of protection if you buy the casual one defensive item you normally do as a mage or damage dealer. What I'm afraid of is if we buff resistance items too much, assassins will not be able to do their job, which will lead to adcs becoming too strong, which will ironically lead to tanks becoming too weak with the rise of {{champion:67}} or{{champion:222}}, etc.... The point being if you're pushed up too far as a squishy with tabi or zhonyas and you get ganked by an equally fed assassin you should still get clapped easily. It's the circle of life in LoL. Its crazy that some people on here think that buying {{item:1031}} should make you invincible or take like 75% reduced damage.
> [{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sWKqwvrG,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-09-05T00:20:40.952+0000) > > I support you as long as you are being reasonable with the resistances buff. Resistances should add a nice little cushion of protection if you buy the casual one defensive item you normally do as a mage or damage dealer. What I'm afraid of is if we buff resistance items too much, assassins will not be able to do their job, which will lead to adcs becoming too strong, which will ironically lead to tanks becoming too weak with the rise of {{champion:67}} or{{champion:222}}, etc.... > > The point being if you're pushed up too far as a squishy with tabi or zhonyas and you get ganked by an equally fed assassin you should still get clapped easily. It's the circle of life in LoL. Its crazy that some people on here think that buying {{item:1031}} should make you invincible or take like 75% reduced damage. ADCs wouldn't be too strong if Riot did what should have been done ages ago and curbstomped lifesteal in general. Straight up reduce it by half/two thirds. Doran's give flat health, Botrk gives 3% and Bloodthirster 6%. Same with bruiser items that give regeneration. Grant KIT sustain buffs to champions that rely heavily on that. Make enchanters and wardens the champions who can heal the carries, because supporting is literally their job, and the reason they don't exist VS mages botlane currently is because they struggle to heal half as much as ADCs lifesteal across the duration of a game, while mages easily deal three times the damage in return. As for resistances, wiping out the vast majority of damage enhancements from runes in favor of gameplay altering things would do *wonders* for survivability throughout a game. IF that's not enough, figure out a way for lethality to just not work in combination with %armor shred and armor reducing abilities. Either one or the other. Last but not least, make defense items at least close to 100% gold efficiency. They aren't right now.
Bultz (NA)
: Is thornmail ever going to actually have any fuckign affect against ranged adc?
ADCs, and most other champions shouldn't have access to half as much self healing as they currently do. It's completely abnormal that *most* enchanter supports, the HEALERS of League, won't heal half as much across a game as the average ADC with a Botrk or BT. It's also why botlanes can afford to have full AP Lux and other ridiculous friggin stupidities instead of traditional supports. If they didn't, Thornmail would be better at curbstomping what little they get and making them pay for it.
: just cause the current system is way better than the old one, doesnt mean its good. you cant compare shit to diarrhea and go like "yeah its not diarrhea anymore, so its good". old client was a messy piece of shit BUT IT WORKED! new client looks fanzy but doesnt work. old one was better, yet still a piece of shit.
> [{quoted}](name=Jennifer420,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JnK3y1dA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-03T02:00:38.626+0000) > > just cause the current system is way better than the old one, doesnt mean its good. > > you cant compare shit to diarrhea and go like "yeah its not diarrhea anymore, so its good". > > old client was a messy piece of shit BUT IT WORKED! new client looks fanzy but doesnt work. > old one was better, yet still a piece of shit. I honestly have zero idea why people say the client is broke. Aside from being a mite slow i've never had issues with it.
: Very well said indeed. Riot said they are going to be looking at support items in regards to good funneling in preseason so my hope is that they also look at support mages while they do this in order to fix the role. One thing I would like to point out though is that support items like knights vow, redemption, locket, and zekes are some of the most balanced items in the game because they have clear strengths and weaknesses and are made in a way so that other roles cannot abuse them. Maybe if riot started pushing supports to build more of those support items then the role would eventually balance itself out.
> [{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NxwIKZN0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-27T17:04:07.826+0000) > > Very well said indeed. Riot said they are going to be looking at support items in regards to good funneling in preseason so my hope is that they also look at support mages while they do this in order to fix the role. One thing I would like to point out though is that support items like knights vow, redemption, locket, and zekes are some of the most balanced items in the game because they have clear strengths and weaknesses and are made in a way so that other roles cannot abuse them. Maybe if riot started pushing supports to build more of those support items then the role would eventually balance itself out. If those items start giving good stats to scale off of (regardless of how that happens), then i'll buy them. As it stands, Knight's Vow is the only one i ever buy, and the rest of my gold goes into real defensive items like Randuin's. Zeke's is cute but i've never actually seen it's unique properties being used efficiently by anyone, and Locket just isn't enough most of the time. Building these is just asking to get bursted down, and dead people aren't efficient.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zac x Me,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=YZPjelk5,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T09:27:54.136+0000) > > He doesn't and Mobility Boots are shit. > One hit and you become free gold. > > Supports should be the fastest role period, noone should be able to outrun them or chase them down by right clicking once for free gold. That should depend on the support champ in question...but true, if they are a slow support, then they should either have loads of cc and range, or be tanky and have cc.
> [{quoted}](name=ImTheJuggernauty,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=YZPjelk5,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T17:15:24.510+0000) > > That should depend on the support champ in question...but true, if they are a slow support, then they should either have loads of cc and range, or be tanky and have cc. Taking Leona as a prime example, once she goes in, if the target doesn't die, she assuredly does. She has zero ability to get away, and without mobi boots she barely has the ability to go in properly either. I'm not fond of Riot's damage increase reworks, but it'd be nice to have either actually enough damage to seal the deal.*past early game* or some way to get the fuck away from a chasing carry.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=FBbpcONk,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-14T01:36:37.753+0000) > > That's where you're wrong, there is no Africa in Runeterra. I specifically worded this to avoid you saying that. There's no way to get around real-world inspiration, especially when it comes to picking a character's physical features, and that's what I'm trying to point out. There's a pretty wide array of cultures and ethnicities that Riot draws from, but it took four black male champions - Azir (shown in his teaser), Lucian, Ekko, and Pyke (who's half Shuriman and half Buhru) before Riot decided they were comfortable making a black woman. Compare that to some of Runeterra's ethnicities being introduced by women (Illaoi formally introducing the Buhru, Taliyah shedding light on modern Shurimans, Qiyana introducing the Ixtali people). Which is entirely acceptable if and only if they wanted to avoid accidentally hitting any of the offensive stereotypes I've seen tossed about, but every time they release the occasional generic hottie like Kai'Sa, there is always someone asking "can we have a black woman instead please?" Now we have that. Right as Blizzard introduces a black woman in HotS, too, though Overwatch still does not have one despite frequent requests. (And Qhira looks like Blizz copied notes from Qiyana or vice versa. Even the name.)
*snip* Tbh if i were to ever create a fantasy world, i'd probably create like seven entirely new ethnicities like blue, green skinned people or whatnot, and *purposefully represent none of our own world's.* Why? Because it's *not* our world, and our world's peoples and cultures don't live in it. Or hell, maybe it'd be a world full of white males and nothing else and they reproduce like DBZ Namekians?
Bugog (NA)
: Smite is a summoner spell, it's not locked into champions. We're locking champions into roles remember, only you want to hose supports. Alistar has been jungle before, and his recommended items includes both support and jungle builds. Bard can go multiple lanes and/or jungle, although it's rare (as is bard himself) Fiddle is both support and jungle built Karma can go any lane Top lulu is occasionally a thing Lux is dual role Morg is dual role etc etc etc And no, it's easy to play passive and not trade a bunch. This is the standard strat when people try to go without a support item, you play much more passive and you starve them out of the game. Pretending that it's not going to happen if it becomes the core bot lane strat is silly, because that's what people do now. But this isn't going to happen anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=Bugog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=0005000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-11T20:28:06.578+0000) > > Smite is a summoner spell, it's not locked into champions. We're locking champions into roles remember, only you want to hose supports. > > Alistar has been jungle before, and his recommended items includes both support and jungle builds. > Bard can go multiple lanes and/or jungle, although it's rare (as is bard himself) > Fiddle is both support and jungle built > Karma can go any lane > Top lulu is occasionally a thing > Lux is dual role > Morg is dual role > etc etc etc > > And no, it's easy to play passive and not trade a bunch. This is the standard strat when people try to go without a support item, you play much more passive and you starve them out of the game. Pretending that it's not going to happen if it becomes the core bot lane strat is silly, because that's what people do now. > > But this isn't going to happen anyway. Morgana, Lux and Karma are mages, like Brand and Vel'Koz. They *can* function as supports because of the insane burst they bring, not their shields or utility. Bard and Lulu have been directly curbstomped by Riot for being "out of their intended place" or having toxic play patterns. Fiddlesticks will probably see the same fate in his rework, but he's been distinctly hated while pretending to play CC bot. Bard is the only one on this list who actually fits in botlane, and even then would be much better off if his kit would simply allow him to be a straight up roaming support. As for locking out champions out of the jungle, it's happened several times that kits were changed to drive champions out of the jungle, and certainly not all champions can jungle at all, when most champions can at least pretend to solo lane anywhere. It's not a new practice.
Youngcuck (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=GinoSoldier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-11T00:33:04.169+0000) > > I think supports should earn 100% of laner's gold income but be made to *actually work for it*. As in, not "hi I just unloaded three easy to land damages" and run off with 66 gold. > Support items are MUCH cheaper than other roles items for a logic reason.
> [{quoted}](name=Youngcuck,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=00050000000000000002,timestamp=2019-08-11T10:14:43.552+0000) > > Support items are MUCH cheaper than other roles items for a logic reason. Support items are cheaper because there's only four sources of income on the map. Income items are a counter to that in that it creates a fifth income flow. If that flow were to be increased in a way that can *specifically or optimally* be used only by supports, then there's no reason to hold back the power budget of their item selection this much. The key is finding a way that doesn't let *everyone else* just abuse that new source for more gold. As far as i'm concerned, the only real difference between Luden's Echo and Ardent Censer should be that one promotes self burst damage while the other provides teamwide over-time damage, but their stats and costs and effects should be relatively equivalent power-wise. Same applies to every other item, and everything can then be fine-tuned to work properly, such as preventing/limiting shield-stacking of items like Locket.
Bugog (NA)
: You're defining the only position a champion can play. If you're going to do that then are we going to nerf gold generation for a top champion that farms a minion outside of top lane? Nerf mids outside of mid? Jungles only get xp off of jungle monsters? That also means that bot lane will become a counter pick nightmare, more than any top lane matchup. Play braum and the enemy doesn't shoot at you to shut you out? Play soraka and they only target you with attacks so you don't get your heal gold? This idea is a balance cluster.
> [{quoted}](name=Bugog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=00050000000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-11T04:20:01.944+0000) > > You're defining the only position a champion can play. > > If you're going to do that then are we going to nerf gold generation for a top champion that farms a minion outside of top lane? Nerf mids outside of mid? Jungles only get xp off of jungle monsters? > > That also means that bot lane will become a counter pick nightmare, more than any top lane matchup. Play braum and the enemy doesn't shoot at you to shut you out? Play soraka and they only target you with attacks so you don't get your heal gold? This idea is a balance cluster. Braum specifically has the tools to get his gold whether or not you want him to have any. If you target his ally he can jump to him and then shield up. If you don't try to deal any damage, then he and his laner are free to engage you with high health. Champions who don't have tools to do so should be given those tools (aka increase skill floor of "braindead" support champions a bit.) Also, it's not like actual supports aren't already hardcore pigeonholed in botlane support. Brand is a mage that can presently function botlane, but when's the last time any dedicated warden or enchanter played became meta outside of botlane? Plus, to counter that, many champions could have mechanics that specifically promote roaming supports or funneling strategies and other playstyles that currently don't exist at all in healthy ways, if at all possible. Also; Jungle *already* does this by giving more EXP to smite item users than anyone else.
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-08-10T18:47:19.882+0000) > > Supports should not be earning similar or more gold than farming carries. > > In my opinion a fair income level for a support is around 70% of a farming carries income. > > Pyke's gold generation is disgustingly overtuned and the change needs to be reverted ASAP. > > Until such a time I will be banning Pyke in every single game, regardless of what role I play. I think supports should earn 100% of laner's gold income but be made to *actually work for it*. As in, not "hi I just unloaded three easy to land damages" and run off with 66 gold. Things like warding wars, clutch saves and *support champion kits* should give gold to the champions, and without those things they do get less gold. Let me elaborate on that last; Braum manages to clutch block a skillshot; gets 20 gold. Blocks a CC? 40 gold. An ult? 80 gold. (arbitrary numbers are arbitrary.) Sona could get gold for every champ hit per ultimate. So on, so on. Carefully controlled, this could effectively control who is allowed to be a support and promote good gameplay for champions besides just dealing more damage. EDIT; Because i forgot the obvious issue of people spamming these free jncome champs in solo lanes, yes, it would be very much reasonable to give these champs a gold gain reduction for minions and monsters at the same time.
> [{quoted}](name=GinoSoldier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-11T00:33:04.169+0000) > > I think supports should earn 100% of laner's gold income but be made to *actually work for it*. As in, not "hi I just unloaded three easy to land damages" and run off with 66 gold. > > Things like warding wars, clutch saves and *support champion kits* should give gold to the champions, and without those things they do get less gold. > > Let me elaborate on that last; Braum manages to clutch block a skillshot; gets 20 gold. Blocks a CC? 40 gold. An ult? 80 gold. (arbitrary numbers are arbitrary.) Sona could get gold for every champ hit per ultimate. So on, so on. > > Carefully controlled, this could effectively control who is allowed to be a support and promote good gameplay for champions besides just dealing more damage. EDIT; Because i forgot the obvious issue of people spamming these free jncome champs in solo lanes, yes, it would be very much reasonable to give these champs a gold gain reduction for minions and monsters at the same time. EDIT EDIT; I made this comment an actual edit of my initial comment and i dunno how to remove this one.
Sageace (NA)
: For an assassin with an ultimate reset, he's VERY MOBILE for it, compared to someone like Darius, who actually HAS to earn his resets due to how slow he is. Pyke should not get a reset at all honestly, it's fucking bonkers.
> [{quoted}](name=Sageace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-08-11T02:43:16.649+0000) > > For an assassin with an ultimate reset, he's VERY MOBILE for it, compared to someone like Darius, who actually HAS to earn his resets due to how slow he is. Pyke should not get a reset at all honestly, it's fucking bonkers. TBH he's not even that slow given what items and runes can bring him. The champ himself? Agreed. With all the bonuses? Terrifying.
PzyXo (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6E7bW05,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-08-10T16:56:45.101+0000) > > add nami's slow to that xD I mean, all champions there are annoying asf except Lucian...
> [{quoted}](name=PzyXo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6E7bW05,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-08-10T17:57:56.974+0000) > > I mean, all champions there are annoying asf except Lucian... Matter of perspective. I play Ashe and one of the champs i like the least in lane is Lucian. Still better than Ezreal though.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-08-10T18:38:41.580+0000) > > It is this ideology that made support the least popular and completely unfun role in the early days of league. It's only in the past few years that supports have actually gotten a decent gold income and the rise of AP kill supports have made people actually queue for support. If you remove that it will be autofill nearly every game. Supports should not be earning similar or more gold than farming carries. In my opinion a fair income level for a support is around 70% of a farming carries income. Pyke's gold generation is disgustingly overtuned and the change needs to be reverted ASAP. Until such a time I will be banning Pyke in every single game, regardless of what role I play.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-08-10T18:47:19.882+0000) > > Supports should not be earning similar or more gold than farming carries. > > In my opinion a fair income level for a support is around 70% of a farming carries income. > > Pyke's gold generation is disgustingly overtuned and the change needs to be reverted ASAP. > > Until such a time I will be banning Pyke in every single game, regardless of what role I play. I think supports should earn 100% of laner's gold income but be made to *actually work for it*. As in, not "hi I just unloaded three easy to land damages" and run off with 66 gold. Things like warding wars, clutch saves and *support champion kits* should give gold to the champions, and without those things they do get less gold. Let me elaborate on that last; Braum manages to clutch block a skillshot; gets 20 gold. Blocks a CC? 40 gold. An ult? 80 gold. (arbitrary numbers are arbitrary.) Sona could get gold for every champ hit per ultimate. So on, so on. Carefully controlled, this could effectively control who is allowed to be a support and promote good gameplay for champions besides just dealing more damage. EDIT; Because i forgot the obvious issue of people spamming these free jncome champs in solo lanes, yes, it would be very much reasonable to give these champs a gold gain reduction for minions and monsters at the same time.
EdgeLady (NA)
: Keep in mind that a lot of Rhaast's personality depiction is a relic from when the Darkin were still an alien race from another world. So when (if ever) Rhaast gets some proper lore, I think he'll have a few more facets to him before he became murder-obsessed.
> [{quoted}](name=EdgeLady,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aVQqe4VW,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-09T01:55:54.935+0000) > > Keep in mind that a lot of Rhaast's personality depiction is a relic from when the Darkin were still an alien race from another world. So when (if ever) Rhaast gets some proper lore, I think he'll have a few more facets to him before he became murder-obsessed. Meanwhile, Sona (and a bunch of other people) still has no lore at all, so much so that people think her Etwa(a)hl might be a purified/sealed Darkin of some sort. It's a weapon, it's been pictured as sentient in her league judgement, as valid as that still is, and it's debatably been in similar places as Rhaast and Va(a)rus. Oh and also the only thing we saw it do on it's own was murder someone out of jealousy.
: >there are no, or next to no tanks currently able to go blow for blow against pretty much any AD champions in 1v1's at equivalent gold. And they shouldn't. Tanks are utility champions that rely on their teammates to deal damage. They aren't designed to be 1v1 champions. A bruiser is supposed to beat a tank in 1v1 but the tank is supposed to be more useful in a team fight.
> [{quoted}](name=GonahtanuGepardi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EOEvk31t,comment-id=000800000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-07T10:18:17.740+0000) > > And they shouldn't. Tanks are utility champions that rely on their teammates to deal damage. They aren't designed to be 1v1 champions. A bruiser is supposed to beat a tank in 1v1 but the tank is supposed to be more useful in a team fight. I dunno. A lot of tanks suffer from mobility issues and end up singled out or unable go get to their targets while bruisers/divers/assassins simply ignore or bypass them, only to straight up butcher them afterwards. If tanks are supposed to provide utility, then i feel like what they currently give isn't enough. Death remains the best CC, and the tanks i see aren't good enough at preventing it, on themselves and on allies alike.
: > No one knows how to basic design it seems. Boy I'm glad I don't live in a world where you design games, cause that'd one helluva boring world. I really can't understand the concept that the ability isn't a purely defensive ability is somehow against 'basic design'. Cause wow, I could've sworn how many times I've used my Sion shield to deal damage. And if you tell me that Sion's shield is intended to be able to function offensively, than I can tell you that Jax's Counterstrike was intended to be used offensively as it can be defensively. Cause wow-wee, if you look at the game as a whole, a lot of the defensive moves can be used offensively, because they have offense in mind. Fiora can use hers to stun enemys if she blocks CC, an offensive trait to a defensive move. It's almost like Jax's counterstrike is not a solely defensive move, and it's intended to enable him to trade better, or survive. You're labeling it something it's not, and then complaining about it not being 'good design' based on your own misconceptions.
> [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EOEvk31t,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-07T05:37:45.897+0000) > > Boy I'm glad I don't live in a world where you design games, cause that'd one helluva boring world. I really can't understand the concept that the ability isn't a purely defensive ability is somehow against 'basic design'. Cause wow, I could've sworn how many times I've used my Sion shield to deal damage. And if you tell me that Sion's shield is intended to be able to function offensively, than I can tell you that Jax's Counterstrike was intended to be used offensively as it can be defensively. > > Cause wow-wee, if you look at the game as a whole, a lot of the defensive moves can be used offensively, because they have offense in mind. Fiora can use hers to stun enemys if she blocks CC, an offensive trait to a defensive move. It's almost like Jax's counterstrike is not a solely defensive move, and it's intended to enable him to trade better, or survive. You're labeling it something it's not, and then complaining about it not being 'good design' based on your own misconceptions. I feel like character design with intended balance should generally follow the idea that if someone has 100% of it's power invested in attack, then a defensive character should be something like 30/70% offense/defense, and the two should be able to match each other blow for blow, because defense blocks 70% of the opponent's 100% offense, leaving both at 30% offense. If that makes sense. Of course there's a bajillion other factors to consider in here too like mobility, multi target abilities, ability uptime, strong early VS late, and such. But, gonna have to admit, there are no, or next to no tanks currently able to go blow for blow against pretty much any AD champions in 1v1's at equivalent gold.
: "Ranged has it rough compared to melees qq" Care to remember Ardent meta? Cuz man did ranged users have such a...rough time then.
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RYqFm25v,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-22T01:09:41.614+0000) > > "Ranged has it rough compared to melees qq" > Care to remember Ardent meta? Cuz man did ranged users have such a...rough time then. As if there aren't a number of melee hypercarries that didn't also benefit highly. Many melees that are AA reliant were high priority picks during that time.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: inspireation has nothing to do with healing after laning phase which is right now the actual problem rather than healing during laning phase, at least I have more issues with the first one than the second one. Botlane especially needs healing during lane, Riot keeps gutting sustain botlane but you need it else you just pick the highest range adc and auto win lane
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Edwzw6K5,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T20:04:24.862+0000) > > inspireation has nothing to do with healing after laning phase > > which is right now the actual problem rather than healing during laning phase, at least I have more issues with the first one than the second one. > > Botlane especially needs healing during lane, Riot keeps gutting sustain botlane but you need it else you just pick the highest range adc and auto win lane Answer is simple. Nerf lifesteal and self-heal runes, buff support kit healing so they're actually relevant past 15 minutes.
Nhika (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=GinoSoldier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jcnkX6B3,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-04T00:13:31.297+0000) > > I got stuck midlane and went Sona against a team that ended up with Katarina, Akali and Ahri, and i got called a troll for rushing Spirit's Visage and being the only one who didn't feed pre 15 minutes. :D I would report any tank mid sona.. in any game mode.. Her Q literally has no counter play and is designed to poke people down.. if you're a troll tank sona that's literally like playing ambulance jungle soraka. Not feeding 15 minutes? So you afk'd the game. Nice. And avoided team fights. Nice.
> [{quoted}](name=Nhika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jcnkX6B3,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-04T01:16:32.641+0000) > > I would report any tank mid sona.. in any game mode.. > > Her Q literally has no counter play and is designed to poke people down.. if you're a troll tank sona that's literally like playing ambulance jungle soraka. > > Not feeding 15 minutes? > So you afk'd the game. Nice. And avoided team fights. Nice. I neither avoided teamfights nor afk'd. I rushed a Sheen due to an early lead against Katarina, then went Spirit's Visage because the sheer amount of damage and target access they had on their team meant i would get obliterated immediately any time they went for me without some form of resistances. By 10 minutes all other lanes were at a severe disadvantage while i was keeping even and stopping Kat from roaming.
: And so do assassins you can build armor, most assassins fall off hard, if you have good clear you can easily shut down talon, kat is easy beat with cc, and zed you can dodge q or cc him. All that is just a min of thought too. Like I would say 90% of assassins have MUCH more counter play then GP.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jcnkX6B3,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-03T22:22:09.413+0000) > > And so do assassins you can build armor, most assassins fall off hard, if you have good clear you can easily shut down talon, kat is easy beat with cc, and zed you can dodge q or cc him. All that is just a min of thought too. > > Like I would say 90% of assassins have MUCH more counter play then GP. I got stuck midlane and went Sona against a team that ended up with Katarina, Akali and Ahri, and i got called a troll for rushing Spirit's Visage and being the only one who didn't feed pre 15 minutes. :D
: I think ranged should get reduced effects on healing, something like 35-50 percent effectiveness. Some melee hinge on the items to survive.
> [{quoted}](name=Nanuk Pihoqahiak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zIG6JEc6,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-07-03T04:56:08.245+0000) > > I think ranged should get reduced effects on healing, something like 35-50 percent effectiveness. Some melee hinge on the items to survive. Nothing kit adjustments can't solve, i'm sure.
RaQqa (EUNE)
: Don't u think Draven is too strong right now ?
The solution to me is simple. Gut lifesteal and spellvamp across the board on items, and let champion kits decide who's good at healing or not. It always baffled me to look at ADCs pulling higher healing numbers in a game than enchanters *(who exist to do healing, btw)* just because of Bloodthirster and Botrk. Not to mention lifesteal scales with Crit and always gives full value even if the target's hp is at 1.
: Gotta love those leona nerfs.... Not to mention they are adding more shield breakers into the game.... Does riot just hate support champions?
> [{quoted}](name=Silent Reaper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KMEBQgVE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-01T21:57:27.504+0000) > > Gotta love those leona nerfs.... > Not to mention they are adding more shield breakers into the game.... > > Does riot just hate support champions? Don't worry, next time she comes up as too weak they'll give her passive %max hp damage.
: vi nunu voli udyr and heca are the top 5 junglers going by winrate so that's false lux is the top winrate support currently so that is also false
> [{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlEfcUsm,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T18:13:54.886+0000) > > vi nunu voli udyr and heca are the top 5 junglers going by winrate so that's false > > lux is the top winrate support currently so that is also false Vi, Hecarim and Udyr aren't tanks.
Leon4167 (NA)
: Anti-Meta players who don't understand why we get upset over your off-meta picks
I play Ashe support, full on support items, maxed CDR/Ultimate Hunter, Guardian anf Font of Life, Max E second often before even putting a point in Q, and usually i'll recommend/wait for a team that is a bit more AA reliant to play with it. Usually go Coin then Censer/Knight's, rush Exec's Calling against healers. Doesn't always work of course, but there is something to be said for 15 second E's and 40 second R's that systematically proc Censer.
: You've never seen someone abuse cassio, liss, neeko top? Well that's NA for you.
> [{quoted}](name=DontVaccinate,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wBEWdTh4,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T15:04:49.410+0000) > > You've never seen someone abuse cassio, liss, neeko top? > > Well that's NA for you. I also don't play all that much nowadays. Definitely don't remember Cassio or Lissandra top, maybe Neeko. Seen plenty of Vlads, Quinns, some Vaynes, the odd Teemo... Currently i'm *much* more worried that me pointing out that Sona's AP scaled E is bonkers in the most recent prominent Sona thread is directly responsible for the AP scaling on it getting cut in half on PBE. Like, how do i show myself in front of the rest of the Sona mains now?
: Cool, so Sona is getting deleted.
They're not, really. Because these nerfs are scaling, it just means now Support Sona will be almost as strong as AP Sona. What's sad is, the fun one to play is AP Sona...
: Nope; that was a dick move. You could've just asked him to stop being toxic and if he refused they you should've minded your business after that. Maybe you could've stopped being his friend. But getting his account banned which he spends money and time on is a dick move. Hell even in irl if your friend is mean to you the sensible thing to do is ask them to stop and if they refuse you stop being friends. Not try to get them in trouble
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=cRgyM3ax,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-06-19T21:47:51.883+0000) > > Nope; that was a dick move. > > You could've just asked him to stop being toxic and if he refused they you should've minded your business after that. Maybe you could've stopped being his friend. But getting his account banned which he spends money and time on is a dick move. > > Hell even in irl if your friend is mean to you the sensible thing to do is ask them to stop and if they refuse you stop being friends. Not try to get them in trouble If i ever found out one of my friends ever really did something that was as out of line as bullying, psychological abuse or otherwise clearly negatively affect people around them, and failed to recognize their behavior as toxic, i would not hesitate at all to make them pay for it. I expect people i hang out with to demonstrate decency.
: Kinda a shit buff to Randuin's
Just make Randuin's completely cancel out crit damage for 3-8? seconds after tanking one, reactivated every minute or so. That way you get a guarantee you won't get obliterated instantly, and it offers clear counterplay methodology.
: > [{quoted}](name=Voluug13,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXw5qqmt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-18T03:03:57.429+0000) > > The issue is less her numbers and more her sheer amount of animation cancel that lets her safely outtrade (if Riven mains abusing glorified bugs to instacombo you and escape can be called a ''trade'' in the first place lol) basically anyone in toplane. So your problem it’s supposedly a bug? Cool, Riot can come out and call it a feature and nullify your whole talking point. Which is more or less the case right now. Animation cancelling is part of her kit because she is a Street Fighter influenced champion.
> [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXw5qqmt,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-06-18T05:58:29.199+0000) > > So your problem it’s supposedly a bug? > > Cool, Riot can come out and call it a feature and nullify your whole talking point. > > Which is more or less the case right now. Animation cancelling is part of her kit because she is a Street Fighter influenced champion. Sure, but it's still what breaks her every time she's any strong, and what makes her frustrating to play against. Let's say we just remove AA-cancelling from her Q's. It already makes her a *lot* more bearable to play against.
PekiCodex (EUW)
: Do YOU support non-meta strategies?
I play Ashe support, use Guardian and Font of Life, with the intent on playing fully support with her insane E vision, buying Censer and Knight's Vow usually, with an extra Exec's Calling for high-healing lanes. It's wack, but it usually works against low-engage matchups and with high AA reliant teams. I like how simple, unexpected but efficient it is.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-16T05:16:20.782+0000) > > That's not the tank meta was, what you're describing is a reasonable balance state. > > Tank meta was when Seju would CC lock you and you'd be dead by the end of her CC lock while being unable to retaliate unless you were vayne. Like Sej currently does, and it’s fucking bullshit
> [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-16T09:43:19.874+0000) > > Like Sej currently does, and it’s fucking bullshit Sej most definitely currently does not if she builds tank properly, even if you throw in a Sheen/Trinity. She would need two rotations at least and her kit isn't hard to dodge whatsoever. Maybe you should consider investing in some health, or reconsider facing an enemy while already half dead.
: Overtuned and has a boring kit that isn't very fun to play as, with, or against. Riot should shift her power by giving her (weaker versions of) the abilities she could unlock during the Onslaught minigame. She should play songs by using her abilities in specific orders which activate her special abilities. Like QWE activates a different effect than EQW.
> [{quoted}](name=Hemulen Magi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zQrN2E4j,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-06-15T02:38:26.762+0000) > > Overtuned and has a boring kit that isn't very fun to play as, with, or against. Riot should shift her power by giving her (weaker versions of) the abilities she could unlock during the Onslaught minigame. She should play songs by using her abilities in specific orders which activate her special abilities. Like QWE activates a different effect than EQW. Onslaught Sona was dope as hell, do hope that if they revisit her, they go back to that for ideas.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zQrN2E4j,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-15T01:10:05.298+0000) > > Lol, I've never seen my team peel a support as much as they peel a Sona XD > > https://giphy.com/gifs/awesomenesstv-reaction-crazy-audrey-whitby-Qw4X3FDRolaUzXnPLNK She's earned that title of squishiest champ! Its always funny to me to see assassins dive the Sona first every time once she turns on.
Meddler (NA)
: Oh, yeah, that's a good one. I don't want to just share my personal opinion, lemme talk with a few folks and get something into a post next week.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=PBPEGOHv,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2019-06-14T15:44:10.468+0000) > > Oh, yeah, that's a good one. I don't want to just share my personal opinion, lemme talk with a few folks and get something into a post next week. You've probably seen this, but just in case, it seems relevant; https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zQrN2E4j-what-are-you-guys-thoughts-on-sonas-current-state-as-a-whole
: "What are you guys' thoughts on Sona's current state as a whole?"
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zQrN2E4j,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-14T17:43:27.383+0000) > Sona's whole kit just doesn't support other people. It literally drags teams to the finish line behind the safety of near perma-shielding once she lands items...almost like the polar opposite of a damage carry (a healing/shielding hyper carry). At this point, we gotta ask ourselves if Sona's a support or a carry pick. > My god you hit the nail on the head *so damn hard* i've got splinters and we don't even live in the same country. I'm a 900k Sona mastery silver/gold casual player. I've played her basically since i started league in the beginning of S3 for her simplicity and musical theme, and ever since her rework, i've gradually changed from trying to get that oneshot combo to just stacking every little bit of AP, CDR and mana i can just so that i can become an utterly unstoppable buff machine. By the way, something i want to point out, a lot of people find her healing outrageous, but her AP-scaled E is absolutely bonkers and a large part of the reason she's so strong late, even though it's overlooked. It starts from a measly 11-14%, but adds 6% for every 100 AP. That's 50% bonus MS *permanently on all her team* at 600 AP, which isn't even the true late game. That said; I love that carry-the-team playstyle, but i do think her early game is too painful and would rather see her obscene endgame brought back in line a bit to give her a somewhat more consistent, solid early game.
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GinoSoldier

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