: The only mage who counters Yasuo, who I can think of is Malzahar. I play the mid lane. Have played it for a long time. Yes, he is oppressive. The fact that he doesn't have windows of cooldown where you can abuse him in itself makes it cancerous to play against him when most mages/Ap assassins have long cooldown durations on their abilities early game.
And Malzahar is invalidated if Yasuo rushes a hexdrinker and QSS
: Can't hear anything in voice chat
Are you playing on a mac? I saw a dev post a little while back saying this is an issue with the mojave OS
: If Riven mains want their animation canceling, then fine, but let us take some damage off in return then.
Just make her Q only give one stack of conqueror total instead of one stack for each cast. Obviously a bit of a different scenario, but Malzahar has a DoT that only grants one stack.
: Your reason is exactly why I switched to Smite. I haven't played League in about 4 days, and even though I feel like I want to- I remember what keeps me from coming back: 1.) Riot's incredibly immature and entitled attitude about anything besides pro-play and streamers. Look at August, I guarantee he didn't look too hard for things he agrees with on the boards because it's hard to find diamonds-in-the-ruff, but they're there and often times overlooked by the community. 2.) Laning is one of two things: Having fun being the bully or Feeling like smashing alt-f4. There used to be a time where you could say with confidence, "I'm going to smash this no good monkey after 10 minutes." Now you are forced to hide behind your turret while they make bank taking plates. In ARAMs case it's even worse because there is no way a team can become relevant if they aren't relevant to begin with, "Oh we got lategame." yeah bullshit. They have Ziggs and Xerath and we have -2 turrets 8 minutes in. 3.) Lack of custom game modes. I remember a year or two ago when Star Guardians was out, man it was the shit. Finally Riot released some quality material just for it to never be seen again. Instead we get All-random-cancer URF every 2 months because Riot's 18 year old employees are too busy farting in each others face while pretending they have this genius idea to revolutionize the way the game is played. How did that work again? 4.) There might as well not be items at this point. Used to, a champion has 1 core item that synergized well with their kit and everything else was flavor. Now? 6-9 items synergize OK, and the rest are absolutely useless. I knew the path Riot was taking was heading for the shitter when they removed AD and AP scalings on champions. Hell I remember when kennen had AD scalings on his Q, now he's pigeon-holed like everyone else.
"Adaptive Force stats" Riot just went down the line and decided what each champion's adaptive force is instead of letting us choose. I get it, simplify it so they can more easily draw new players in, but it's a slap in the face to people that know what they're doing.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gramps69,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5YVh5qnp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-26T17:04:47.429+0000) > > Eh, I'd rather just have Rift removed from the game and revert dragons to just global (or local) gold instead of multiplicative stat bonuses That doesn't present any strategic choices though and would limit strategic diversity in terms of composition picks. It'd be boring to revert to that as well as less healthy for the game state over all.
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5YVh5qnp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-26T18:20:46.527+0000) > > That doesn't present any strategic choices though and would limit strategic diversity in terms of composition picks. It'd be boring to revert to that as well as less healthy for the game state over all. It reduces snowball and presents more opportunities for teams to comeback. Old drag gave 190 gold each to the team that takes it, which is enough for a {{item:1006}} . Riot could buff the gold gain from it to like 250 per player and it would still be less impactful than any of the current dragons. Rift herald is simply a "win more" feature that can only be used effectively by a team that is either ahead or more coordinated (which most likely means they're ahead). Rarely will a team that's behind manage to get a rift and take more than a tower with it, meanwhile a team that's already snowballing can take rift early and potentially grab plate gold, first turret gold, and a second turret to really stretch their gold lead.
: You know what might be interesting as a change?
Eh, I'd rather just have Rift removed from the game and revert dragons to just global (or local) gold instead of multiplicative stat bonuses
: So you would rather have the runes and have new players struggle till lvl 30 so that they can be competitive in the game?
Yea, makes it less likely that you get a level 30 scrub playing ranked for the first time in your promo series
: And by balance, we mean, adjust all the champions to not have counters when in lane. It should all be based on skill, and no-one should have a leg up on someone else just because someone wants to play gragas mid, and gets destroyed by a yasuo who can build attack speed and crit with do damage, and still do waaay too much damage.
Almost every champion can get blind-picked into an enemy champion, Yasuo is just one of several exceptions to the rule since he's a busted-ass garbage champ to begin with. I've seen a Nasus with double the farm of a Teemo at 10 minutes this season, hard-counters don't exist
Sucction (OCE)
: He was buffed so he can escape a certain situation which is forced onto him in most games. Assuming both players are decent, Zed will have to concede early lane. He has the tools to pressure waves and to poke, but these come at a hefty cooldown cost and remove his only mobility and cc for 24 seconds. After early laning phase is over and both champions have backed, Zed will return with a Dirk, and the enemy with a Seeker's. This is where it gets worse. Seeker's is a crazily gold efficient item. Although buying it means the enemy mid laner is delaying their other core items like Lost Chapter, it essentially completely denies any threat of Zed's all in. After that point, all a Zed can do is try to hit all his abilities during short trades, while hoping he can dodge all of the enemy's. He has a small opportunity to roam before the enemy buys a Lost Chapter on their 2nd back, but if this opportunity is missed then the champion is relegated to afk farming sidelanes, hoping the enemy top laner is behind enough for him to win a duel to get back into the game. Zed can be very oppressive when ahead, but it's extremely difficult for him to actually get ahead without the enemy disrespecting him or making constant, major mistakes. I can't say for sure whether Zed being viable is a healthy thing for the game, but considering Zoe and Yasuo are both even better, I can't imagine Riot has much problem with Zed anymore. Fortunately the changes actually nerf him just slightly in low elo, where he's doing fine, and are a sizable buff in higher elos, where he was struggling. Hopefully the buffs don't push him over the edge in either elo.
Overall I think it's a nerf tbh-- losing the AD gain from killing someone with his ult severely gimps his late game when getting a kill on a full-build Jhin gives a ridiculous amount of AD
: Battle mage items offer no CDR btw{{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3907}} Not that there is a lot battle mage itemization
No doubt, most mages go down the Lost Chapter line too, which is 20% CDR for the first item, so if you go Ludens, Zhonyas and Banshees you've got your 40% right there, plus three more spots for boots and Liandrys, Rylais, Morellos, DCap, etc.
: No champion should be able to Litterally cast every ability in one animation. She has low cooldowns a lot of cc a low cooldown shield and even her ult is on a low cooldown. All of her abilities are aoe too so she aoe one shots an entire team while being tank and can still fight after cause all her abilities will be back up.
I think an underlying issue with all of this is the overabundance of CDR in the game today. Why does Shojin's Spear need 20% CDR with the Essence Flare passive? Why does every lethality item need to give 10% CDR? The only item classes that don't have good access to CDR are hypercarry items (mainly crit builds), and tank items for the most part (more exceptions, but it is a broader range of items). I mean, look at the issues with Karthus now-- he can get Presence of Mind, Ultimate Hunter, and then his jungle build gives 10% CDR on the blue enchantment. Remember when you actually had to think about whether or not to use your ult instead of just spamming it with a Blitz-Q cooldown? Max-CDR Zed can have his level 3 ult up like every 36 seconds or something gross like that, same with Rengar, and guess what? Both champs buy Lethality items (that give CDR for some reason).
: No, actually you can only buy new skins on PBE now since Riot says the PBE is there for players to test the new and subjective content. They changed it late last year.
Awoof (EUW)
: Nerf the one thing about Karthus that takes skill "to help having a chance to fight back", meanwhile Dark Harvest + Presence of Mind R spam is by far the most frustrating thing about him. Cool.
It will also nerf his early jungle clears too, so more room to invade his skeletal ass
Trestles (NA)
: This isn't even a new idea, it's amazing to me that Riot doesn't have a system like this. Imagine if you had to buy clothes without trying them on...skins are basically the same thing for your champion.
: Everyone suddenly "loves" the old Kayle, meanwhile she is one of the top 4 least played champions.
Not a fan of them cramming some true damage into her kit just because. Feels like just another way source of true damage that isn't needed, not to mention the natural affinity she'll have with new conqueror due to her passive and new conqueror both requiring 5 stacks from autos to get max. I can already sense the cancer
: I still think that fact that she and Tryn are resource less makes it difficult as Malph has high mana cost and will eventually go oom to the point they can probably just dive you under tower and walk away. Maybe I am just not that good with Malph but these champions have strong if not borderline OP synergy with Conqueror and invalidate Malphs passive pretty hard.
No doubt. Conqueror is a toxic rune and should just get removed along with all the other keystones but that's a totally different topic lol
: I don't know about just Darius. I mean Riven, Tryn, and Jax can crap on him pretty hard as well. Problem is that Malphite has pretty high mana cost without anyways to wave clear which makes him an easy target to punish. But building AP on him is pretty strong hence why most are doing it.
Jax is probably the hardest out of those three since he does have decent burst if he does a Q-W-third auto on you, but if he tries to all-in you just e, q, walk away. Same with Trynd. Riven will naturally push if she harasses you, so all you need to do is use your W to farm under tower, throw a Q her way after she uses her shield.
: Yes damage resistance champ like malph and rammus were cucked hard by conqueror. That's why rammus has to power farm jungle for enough health items to survive and malph has been going AP heavy so to be an ult-insta Gib bot that may kill a carry or two before getting blown away. Building resistances is pretty much worthless on any tanky champ right now.
Malphite just has to ban Darius, start corrupting pot and max Q, then build about 2-3 AP items before switching to full tank and selling off the AP for health and resists
: Honestly that would be good too, because 99% of the time as a support, I'm literally just buying the same 3 items every game, regardless of the team compositions. All of the stat gains from equipment might as well be gated behind experience levels, as it would basically deliver the same experience. If there aren't any meaningful choices for me on my equipment, then why does the system even exist in the first place?
For Off-Meta Fuckery AP Udyrs, AP Nasus (ARAM), ADC Annie was a thing for a while several seasons ago, Crittlesticks was hilarious once upon a time, on-hit Soraka with her silence to counter Riven, etc.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gramps69,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BRyP7p1Y,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-02-13T19:55:26.418+0000) > > Not necessarily, Faker used to just always ban Garen since he was the first champ that would come up alphabetically for Korea he explained that he banned galio, garen and whoever else it was because there was no pass and he didnt want to ban meta champs because he wanted to play against the good ones
Ah, sure. I didn't remember all the details, just that in his streaming highlights I used to watch he would insta-ban Garen every game
: > [{quoted}](name=ixi Josh Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BRyP7p1Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-12T17:05:17.581+0000) > > If my teammate can't think of anyone worth a ban, can someone else on the team use it instead? I don't care who gets it. It's just such a waste, given that four other people would be happy to make the choice in their place. There are people who deliberately choose to ban none, if you give a pass option fine but keep the none option. Especially true for competitive players who want to practice vs what is good, Faker is known to do this
Not necessarily, Faker used to just always ban Garen since he was the first champ that would come up alphabetically for Korea
Bultz (NA)
: Yasuo should be buffed not nerfed
He's an overloaded champion with no clearly defined periods of weakness throughout a game. The only window where he can be considered "vulnerable" is if his windwall is down, and you can easily just back off your lane until it's back up.
: playing adc in bronze is the worst
Tristana is better for low elo solo queue. Escape plus self-peel, only problem with her is you need about two and a half items to really get relevant
rayzo (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Raymønd Åmantius,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBsiovNW,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-09T17:38:40.775+0000) > > Abuse him yourself then, or ban him. > There's really not much else you can do unless you learn how to play against him. Pick Malz. Malz doesn't counter yas, are you fucking high? He can kill all your voidlings with a single Q, eliminating your ability to push, as soon as you pop his shield he backs off til it comes up. If it's a smart Yasuo he just gets a Hexdrinker and QSS and you have no way to kill him or deal with him.
: That's gonna suck, because Yasuo's actually a lot more balanced now. Once people remember what armor items are, Yasuo is going to plummet to 48% without a Nerf. Once they nerf he will be 45-46% Unplayable, carried by his teams. I stlll haven't seen a {{item:3143}} vs a Yasuo recently.
What good is armor when he gets true damage from conqueror and free armor pen from his ult?
Shahamut (NA)
: I think what you need to understand is that from RIOT's perspective, "fun" and "enoyabe" are such abstract and subjective terms that it would be LITERALLY impossible to balance with that as the #1 goal. I for one, being a hard stuck gold player, have never had issues playing against Yasuo. Yes, I also have a fair amount of games played AS Yasuo, and I think that is almost always the big difference. Playing a bunch of games as the character you hate playing against most will usually teach you how to beat them (if thats your issue, not yours specifically in this case) and also tends to lessen the frustration when playing against them. In short, though, they have to use SOME kind of data to balance for the sake of consistency. Not that they are perfect, I wager no company is, but they are doing their best. In Yasuo's case- He is niche pick at best in pro-play. RARELY has he ever been meta, except for the short amount of time that "Frozen Force" was a thing. Riot easily identified that it was the item synergy, not the champion, that needed changed and once they did, Yasuo fell completely off the pro scene for a bit. In high elo, Yasuo's win rate is lower since people know how to play around him and exploit his weaknesses. Even in low elo, its not like his win rate is rediculous. He is just frustrating for a lot of people. Personally, as someone who primarily plays melee characters... I hate Heimmerdinger. I tried playing several games as him and it just made me hate him more because of how easy he is to play as... XD But hey, thats MY opinion. I certainly don't expect Riot to balance around my personal preferences.
I'm not saying that it should be their #1 goal, but come on-- when a champion is consistently (over several months) banned in over 50% of games, people are constantly asking for nerfs and Riot does nothing it's a problem. Kassadin a couple years ago had a ban rate of something like 90% so they nerfed him to the ground. Zoe at release was so oppressive to play against they nerfed her to the ground and have slowly been adding power back to get her to a healthy level. Akali's rework was a complete disaster with her true invisibility or whatever they decided to call it, and they have finally removed that aspect of her kit, gutted her to the ground with the reason being they are going to slowly add power back to her kit so she's more balanced. Why can't they do the same with Yasuo? The pro play comparison is dumb to begin with, as there are plenty of pub-stomping champs in solo queue that never see pro play (Shaco, Yi, Udyr, Zed, Talon, etc.) and they were nerfed because of this. Hell, even Yorick got nerfs a little while ago because he was too oppressive in solo queue. The "he's not a problem in solo queue" excuse doesn't hold water when compared to what Riot has historically done with problematic champions.
: It's the Nerf lee sin paradox again. Lee sin is so popular because he is OP so riot nerfs him and then back downs after the Backlash. So long as Yasou is Popular Riot wont fix him I dont think Yas is OP. I think he is never in a disadvantageous position. At any stage of the game.
If he's never at a disadvantage, how is that not the definition of OP?
AntiSJW (NA)
: wow if you scroll down-- he says yas isn't a problem
Yokkers (NA)
: To all those that think crit got buffed....
True damage has to be reduced across the board, simple as that. 100% crit should be a sacrifice, it's like a college basketball team that lives by the 3, dies by the 3. It also presents more options for counterplay-- if you want 100% crit, you're giving up a GA/Maw/etc. defensive item for it. It's a lot harder to burst down tanks now (except for Kaisa and Vayne, but that's a different issue), which I am extremely OK with, since they were feeling extremely weak. Additionally, now that Stormrazor isn't your required first item anymore to be relevant in lane, you can diversify your builds a lot more.
: considering how few monsters we have I'd rather not he have a boring human skin
You're absolutely right, need something [more like this](http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/yIysICPmSQZl.jpg)
Meddler (NA)
: We don't want to just put power back into Akali without some confidence we're doing so in a healthier way. Realize that sucks for a couple of patches and apologies. Goal is a better long term state so her balance doesn't bounce back and forth constantly.
Hey Meddler, any chance Yasuo can get the same Akali treatment of heavy nerfs followed by buffing him to a healthy level? I laid out some good discussion of how he is overwhelming here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ckbpwYJx-riot-why-dont-you-listen-to-your-fking-players-when-it-comes-to-yasuo
: You know that randuins still reduces her atk speed, right? If her atk speed is reduced, she can't hit her true damage as often, and that in turn makes armor more effective. Not saying that vayne top isn't annoying to fight, but yeah, you can build a few items to counter her.
Just gonna be devil's advocate here, you might slow her attack speed slightly, but Randuin's comes with a good chunk of health, so you're also making her damage more bursty on you as well. Not going to run numbers on that cuz I'm a brain-dead boards poster, but I believe it to be true
Gramps69 (NA)
: @Riot Why don't you listen to your f**king players when it comes to Yasuo?
I should have also thrown in the comparison to new Akali-- her winrates weren't great either, yet she was still banned very often across all ELOs, and you finally removed the part of her kit we had been asking to have removed since the rework. If you wanna do the same thing (completely gut, then slowly add power back) with Yasuo, please go right ahead. I would highly recommend removing the doubled-crit chance from his passive so he doesn't get to double-dip on crit item purchases, and getting rid of the lifesteal interaction he gets from his Q (for those of you that don't know, his Q benefits from full lifesteal even if you hit more than one target, which should not be the case since you can strike multiple enemies with it, so he should only be getting 33% effectiveness on lifesteal with his Qs), maybe do a "durability" thing to his windwall like Yorick has on his little cage.
Rioter Comments
Ephixus (EUW)
: Nah he will build now Statikk shiv more likely.
Check out Rito's lead gameplay designer's thoughts on Yasuo: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/qzzu5y4t-champion-weaknesses-in-2019
: Yasuo has a lot of tools but actually doesn't suffer from this problem as a whole. His winrate actually goes down in higher ELO play as opponents learn to exploit him. The core combo of being a squishy melee without strong burst leaves a lot of opportunity for opponents to stop him.
Why do you refuse to make a comment on Yasuo? He's complete dogshit to play against in lane, if you're playing a mana champion and try to 'harass', he blocks most of your damage with his shield since mages don't have a ton of oof early on, meanwhile he walks around a little and regains his shield while you quickly go oom trying to counter his manaless pushing. Then he can get either a damage item first, and murder you, or get a Hexdrinker and invalidate your damage and murder you. HE HAS NO CLEAR WEAKNESSES, PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT PIECE OF SHIT CHAMP
: New Conqueror Changes
Why won't Rito just listen to everyone-- WE DON'T WANT MORE TRUE DAMAGE IN THIS GAME. Those changes would be fine as long as they remove the true damage part.
Barcid (NA)
: Spear of Shojin is a testament to the utterly idiotic balancing in this game
: hmmm do you not get the splash if you didn't start placement ?
right, so I just played one placement in mid so I can splash LP across every role
Rioter Comments
: Tier1 towers
I think it would be better if turret plating gave additional resists but didn't give gold when a plate is destroyed. I think it would be worth exploring having plates fall off naturally (not turret health, just the plates that grant X resists each) up until the 14 minute point where plates already fall off. You could have plates start falling off at 6 minutes, then every 2 minutes after. Not sure if this would help as turrets would end up being less tanky before 14 minutes, but it would at least stop the potential 2 kill's worth of gold going to the enemy laner if they're already dumpstering you.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gramps69,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dgF5nkRc,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-04T16:51:03.259+0000) > > Can people get over this? It happened like a year ago, the guy got fired, move on already. Sheesh. "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it" That goes for those who forget it as well.
"Those who blow things out of proportion are idiots"
: I mean, doesnt this just mean that any "big problem" is a tier 1 priority while Yasou is tier 2 and has been since like....forever? Tier 0 is reserved for bonkers insanity like the DKZ (Daniel Z. Klein) incident.
Can people get over this? It happened like a year ago, the guy got fired, move on already. Sheesh.
: Who even counters Darius? dont say teemo... {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Karfuss (EUW)
: I always ping their warding totem whenever they complain about a lack of a missing ping or complaining about the lack of ganks by a jungler, or being camped by an enemy jungler. It's bizarre that at this point, people STILL think warding/vision control is something only a Support should do. You'd think they'd learn that sticking a control ward in their bush helps their Jungler gank their lane and gives everyone info where the enemy jungler is. Nope. If they leave fountain with 75+ gold and an open item slot, one should just be forced unless you already have one up.
Well, since they increased CDs on warding trinkets, it is harder to keep a ward up consistently. At the same time, if you aren't warding, don't be pushing, or be ready to burn your flash to escape.
: But why do you all mean the way "fix the rate of snowball", you think bruisers weren't monsters in S2/S3 if picking a lead? You think a mage having his 1 completed item wasn't a big threat? Don't forget that nobody knew how to truly optimise back in the days until the Korean kinda teached the world about it, nothing was truly optimised, we didn't use tempo well, we barely acknowledged objectives. So we just didn't use snowball as well as we do now. Hell, before a lead was made by LOT of stat (old baron) + lot of global gold (old dragon), it was basically how snowball went. Gold gold gold and stats. The reason you feel snowball is harder is because objective like herald, baron or elder are very punishing if used properly. It is what a lead give you, the capacity to control vision, the ennemy jungle and the map. Items aren't necessary more insane than before, remember old zhonya or DFG, remember how old trinity was or league of Black Cleaver
I think the main reason snowball is so extreme right now is how everything gives more gold, plus the free stats just handed out. Minion gold is higher, I don't know if it's accurate but I feel like the ambient/passive gold/second everyone gains is higher than earlier seasons, the Precision rune (can't think of the name) granting bonus gold on kill/assist, introduction of Scuttlecrabs and making them worth a shitload of gold as well. For reference, the "old dragon" gave global 190 gold to the team that took it, which translates to roughly 5.5 AD. Now, if your team gets an infernal drake, that 6% increase of AD is worth the same value if you have under 91 AD, otherwise it's superior in every sense. Old Zed didn't have the AD-steal part of his ult, but now he'll run around with 400 AD in midgame easily. Nasus is always problematic in some way, but his old E used to do a flat armor reduction, and then they changed it to a %, which is obviously much more beneficial unless you're fighting squishies. Obviously new runes are a whole nother issue, but look at all the free stats slapped onto those- Scorch: free damage, scales with level (i.e. with a lead), Absolute Focus: free damage (if you have a lead, you should be higher health most of the time), Conqueror: I don't think this one needs an explanation, etc. Sorry for rambling
: But it's still a dream... Anyways we get a new enchanter design wooooo
A new enchanter/assassin support-- two long range dashes, a displacement, a stun, an execute, self-sustain and can shield and heal allies
nfzeta (NA)
: That would hard gimp mages too much, you can't take away their mana, mana regen and cdr all at once, that would just make them useless. The only way this goes through is if assassins also lose their wave clear and fighters lose all but their tank option CDR choices. I can agree on an altered CDR change though, maybe not removing it from the items per say but reverting it to being a choice between cdr and damage. Items like {{item:3030}} and {{item:3152}} I think should be among the few to keep the CDR. {{item:3116}} could also be a candidate if they drop the ap it gives to like 70. For example remove the CDR from {{item:3285}} , or at the very least remove the passive that gives additional CDR. This would also allow them to get the item for cheaper to make a smoother building of the item early game. Its quite an often situation where you have the components and just don't have enough gold to finish.
Yea, I was just kind of going off on a random tangent I started thinking about when I saw a post about {{item:3174}} the other day. I think CDR needs to be heavily nerfed for all classes, not just mages. Removing CDR from {{item:3285}} would be a good place to pull that from, but I would say keeping it on the Hextech items would be fine. In my opinion it was better when you had to actually itemize for mana regen as a mage, and Athene's was the go-to item at the time. Obviously the MR provided from it would be wasted in the Zed/Yasuo/Talon fiesta that exists now, but removing the CDR from the lethality item line would allow for more room for opportunity against those dirtbags.
Moody P (NA)
: Summoner Spells deserve an update
can't remove flash with everychampion having excessive mobility, unless they decide to remove flash along with most of all champions mobility, but knowing Rito they'd just give every champion a conditional double-dash in their kit
: No point in trying to point out facts on boards. No matter how many times you pull out empirical statistical data, people will still believe dumb lies like "tanks are weak", "support is weak".
> [{quoted}](name=SuffocateMeDaddy,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EgFX7Tdm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-18T15:59:22.182+0000) > > No point in trying to point out facts on boards. No matter how many times you pull out empirical statistical data, people will still believe dumb lies like "tanks are weak", "support is weak". I mean, tanks are objectively weak right now-- the only "tanks" in the top 25 of winrates (not the best metric to go by, but it does provide some insight) for the past month are Amumu, Galio and Sion. Amumu's top builds include Morellos and Zhonya's, which aren't exactly "tank" items Galio has a broken AP ratio that's getting patched and Meddler has acknowledged that he's too strong right now. His first item over 70% of the time is a protobelt. Sion is the only real example of a tank performing well, which he has pretty much always done since his rework and the potentially infinite health-scaling, which is a huge benefit in the True Damage meta.
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