: Which AP Assassin scales best into late game?
I see people have told you that Kass is the best late game scaling assassin, and I think this is true. Despite this, I also think that ekko scales decently well alongside evelynn who also scales well.
: Champion Types That Are Inherently Broken
Say what you will about GP being lane dominant, but his best winrate is now in the mid game, he doesn't scale as well now. I'm not sure what caused the change, perhaps the crit rework, but this is unfortunate that he's no longer as good late game as he was.
Rioter Comments
Zee Zone (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OkTbEMMQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T09:17:16.951+0000) > > And TFT is trash imo. > > we need URF back :( Wer're getting ArUrf back this year for a good period of time, same for Nexus Blitz (not sure for how long that one)
> [{quoted}](name=Zee Zone,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OkTbEMMQ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T12:03:38.209+0000) > > Wer're getting ArUrf back this year for a good period of time, same for Nexus Blitz (not sure for how long that one) I heard we're getting ARURF back some time but how do you know it is for awhile? I didn't hear about Nexus Blitz though, who said we were getting it back to play for a bit?
FSRER (EUNE)
: Why are they trying to buff her in general. She is overpowered and if they want someone for the LCS/Worlds to either counter tanks or beat duelists, why not bring back {{champion:48}} with some quality of life changes? "Capitalize from the momentum she gets from her lead" aka, hitting 10 vitals that spawn right next to her and killing you because of RNG.
> [{quoted}](name=FSRER,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PfPHcQ3l,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-15T05:40:52.564+0000) > > Why are they trying to buff her in general. She is overpowered and if they want someone for the LCS/Worlds to either counter tanks or beat duelists, why not bring back {{champion:48}} with some quality of life changes? "Capitalize from the momentum she gets from her lead" aka, hitting 10 vitals that spawn right next to her and killing you because of RNG. As I recall, there is a pattern that the vitals follow so that there is no RNG.
OKIDJ (NA)
: Elderwood Yorick would have made more sense, you get to summon treants and put people in a bramble wall that grows. Then you someone some sort of tree spirit to fight for you as your ult. But it doesn't make sense because this new elderwood theme does not fit the theme of the original Hecarim skin at all. They could have called it "Mystic wood" and it would have worked except for Ahri having a skin.
> [{quoted}](name=OKIDJ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jbsQRTiU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-14T04:18:22.707+0000) > > Elderwood Yorick would have made more sense, you get to summon treants and put people in a bramble wall that grows. Then you someone some sort of tree spirit to fight for you as your ult. But it doesn't make sense because this new elderwood theme does not fit the theme of the original Hecarim skin at all. They could have called it "Mystic wood" and it would have worked except for Ahri having a skin. I was thinking Elderwood Kindred would make more sense, there is already artwork out there for it and she is another champion who hasn't had a skin in quite awhile.
Antenora (EUW)
: # S U P P O R T # B T W .... Supports are meant to be champions who function on low income.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QOln6Zhs,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-10T18:07:51.764+0000) > > # S U P P O R T > > # B T W > > .... > > Supports are meant to be champions who function on low income. Yes, they are meant to function on a low income but does anyone really want that? Should that be a goal to have for supports? I personally, as a Bard main, wish I had items that had better stats, rather than just powerful actives.
Rioter Comments
Sillae (NA)
: His W's "large detection radius" is helped by the fact he gets a gigantic fucking speed boost and heal. His "telegraphed and dodged with ease" abilities are helped that he can dash directly onto you from fucking stealth, stun (which readjusts with his position, so his increased MS means he can follow any direction), hook, execute. A fucking assassin shouldn't have sustain, let alone the stupid 90% of all damage dealt to him. He already takes Doran's Shield why does he have that r%%%%%ed sustain? Also funny how you list completely unviable heals when you're ignoring that the target he is on is stunlocked and pulled away from their team. In what world is Fiddle going to be able to use drain before he's executed? And "have a dash" isn't good counterplay. Also lol at "only aggressive cc" as if Pyke isn't using his dash->stun to change his mind when he fucks up so he can't be followed. But no, you're right the champ with high sustain, damage, movement speed, dashes, cc, gold generation for team (and himself now), repeatable execute of a flat amount (he can fucking kill supports and adcs from half health), and stealth is A-OK.
> [{quoted}](name=Sillae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gwAd5T7x,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-23T03:59:30.348+0000) > > His W's "large detection radius" is helped by the fact he gets a gigantic fucking speed boost and heal. > > His "telegraphed and dodged with ease" abilities are helped that he can dash directly onto you from fucking stealth, stun (which readjusts with his position, so his increased MS means he can follow any direction), hook, execute. > > A fucking assassin shouldn't have sustain, let alone the stupid 90% of all damage dealt to him. He already takes Doran's Shield why does he have that r%%%%%ed sustain? > > Also funny how you list completely unviable heals when you're ignoring that the target he is on is stunlocked and pulled away from their team. > > In what world is Fiddle going to be able to use drain before he's executed? > > And "have a dash" isn't good counterplay. > > Also lol at "only aggressive cc" as if Pyke isn't using his dash->stun to change his mind when he fucks up so he can't be followed. > > But no, you're right the champ with high sustain, damage, movement speed, dashes, cc, gold generation for team (and himself now), repeatable execute of a flat amount (he can fucking kill supports and adcs from half health), and stealth is A-OK. When is Pyke taking Doran's Shield? Also, is he not more of a support than an assassin? I also think his damage is telegraphed and his burst combo is slow, meaning there are things you can do as nearly any champion to try to outplay him.
Velasan (NA)
: I would be curious to see some real numbers as to whether the game is declining. I mean, I feel that way sometimes, particularly with the game quality this season, however, I've yet to see any actual evidence that's true. For me personally, the game was about at it's best in Season 7. That's not even nostalgia speaking, some of my champs weren't even all that great during s7, and I started in s4 during the Rengar and Khazix era. At the time though the game could still get messed up for a week or so during a bad patch, but then it felt like that would get fixed by the time the next patch rolled around. Now it's like the whole game is just always on that one bad patch that never seems to end. The game is playable, but frustrating and not as fun. I would rehash why that is, but I think everyone has done it to death by now including myself in a number of posts. Riot seems to have their own idea of where they want the game to go and are glued to it.
> [{quoted}](name=Velasan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seu7L2P1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-22T17:38:38.628+0000) > > I would be curious to see some real numbers as to whether the game is declining. I mean, I feel that way sometimes, particularly with the game quality this season, however, I've yet to see any actual evidence that's true. > > For me personally, the game was about at it's best in Season 7. That's not even nostalgia speaking, some of my champs weren't even all that great during s7, and I started in s4 during the Rengar and Khazix era. At the time though the game could still get messed up for a week or so during a bad patch, but then it felt like that would get fixed by the time the next patch rolled around. Now it's like the whole game is just always on that one bad patch that never seems to end. The game is playable, but frustrating and not as fun. > > I would rehash why that is, but I think everyone has done it to death by now including myself in a number of posts. Riot seems to have their own idea of where they want the game to go and are glued to it. I believe there was a post on reddit about this, and over all, League has had a decently large net gain of players. I'll try to find it and link it.
: gangplank is just like any other toxic top laner.
Perhaps this is my experience only but I find that Gangplank isn't all that great of a late game champion any more. He seems to do well mid game if he goes even/gets ahead but when the extreme late game comes around, I just find that lack of an actually tanky top laner is more of a hindrance while GP's damage doesn't seem enough to carry a teamfight. Now I'm not sure how reliable lolalytics is, but it has GP's late game winrate going down from 48% (30-35 minutes) to 46%(40+minutes). His winrate just starts dropping from about 50% at 20-25 minutes and never comes back up. It also shows that his early game winrate is also abysmal, starting at 44% and going up to his 50% in the 20-25 minute mark. [](https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Gangplank/)
yuuum chan (EUNE)
: A platinum players opinion on every midlane champion P.2
Might be worth noting that Irelia's w no longer reduces magic damage by a certain percent so she is not as anti mage in the tanking regard.
: At this point, Urgot W can't be considered any defense anymore
I was surprised by the huge nerf to his shield. They cut everything about it in half, the base shield and the scaling. It seems like the cost should have been on only nerf or maybe just the base shield nerf kept but with all of these it was too much.
: I've held off creating this thread for too long... The Day Riot invited me to Playtest Mordekaiser
I realize you cannot reveal much/anything but did you have a lot of changes you wanted to the new morde? Or did you think he was pretty much set after you played him.
iiGazeii (NA)
: I feel like Jhin wouldn't be on the pit crew. He wouldn't deign to be the stagehand that works behind the scenes. He would want to be front and center.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=rdbrgdEP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-02T20:05:15.236+0000) > > I feel like Jhin wouldn't be on the pit crew. He wouldn't deign to be the stagehand that works behind the scenes. He would want to be front and center. IIRC, Jhin was a stagehand before he was discovered to be a serial killer by Shen's Dad, Shen, and Zed. It doesn't seem to be too different from what this is.
Tedo58 (EUNE)
: People who constantly go something like 2/10 should be getting deranked faster (higher LP loses).
What about support mains who go 2/10? It doesn't seem too horrible as a support as long as you have a high number of assists. Even if you didn't but you're peeling for the carries or getting the picks that count you should be considered to be doing fine.
Hotarµ (NA)
: I just realized I typed out an entire response and never hit post. _oof_ I've played through every game here and I can honestly say my personal favorites are (in order) Dark Souls III, Borderlands THC, and Rise of the Tomb Raider. If you haven't played a Souls game before, Dark Souls 3 is an easy one to pick up, has a great community, the gameplay is diverse along with PvP and group PvE, and the storyline is amazing as with all Souls games. If for some reason you didn't want DS3 AND didn't play a Borderlands game ever, go for Borderlands. If you _have_ played Borderlands 2 but _not_ the Pre-Sequel, **don't** get the Handsome Collection. Almost everyone agrees that the Pre-Sequel is just a weak attempt of a game. The characters are lackluster, gameplay is the same but somehow slightly worse, overall it's just boring. If you don't go for those two above, go for Tomb Raider and then Rise of the Tomb Raider. Both games are great, they have fun combat and survival elements, a decent storyline, the gameplay is challenging but fair on average difficulty, and the puzzles/climbing are a lot like Uncharted. Everything is super smooth, I liked these games a lot! Good luck and keep me updated on your choice!
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vsTEnGeP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-26T07:27:22.987+0000) > > I just realized I typed out an entire response and never hit post. _oof_ > > I've played through every game here and I can honestly say my personal favorites are (in order) Dark Souls III, Borderlands THC, and Rise of the Tomb Raider. > > If you haven't played a Souls game before, Dark Souls 3 is an easy one to pick up, has a great community, the gameplay is diverse along with PvP and group PvE, and the storyline is amazing as with all Souls games. > > If for some reason you didn't want DS3 AND didn't play a Borderlands game ever, go for Borderlands. > > If you _have_ played Borderlands 2 but _not_ the Pre-Sequel, **don't** get the Handsome Collection. Almost everyone agrees that the Pre-Sequel is just a weak attempt of a game. The characters are lackluster, gameplay is the same but somehow slightly worse, overall it's just boring. > > If you don't go for those two above, go for Tomb Raider and then Rise of the Tomb Raider. Both games are great, they have fun combat and survival elements, a decent storyline, the gameplay is challenging but fair on average difficulty, and the puzzles/climbing are a lot like Uncharted. Everything is super smooth, I liked these games a lot! > > Good luck and keep me updated on your choice! Alright, thanks for the reply. I've decided on DS3 based on many recommendations. Do you have any idea where it would be best to buy from? It is discounted right now in most places but is there on where it is more so?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: {{champion:145}} I just hate her damage output and how hard it is to itemize against her, plus her snowball is just crazy. I swear sometimes her passive just kills you from 50% HP. Would so much rather fight a melee hypercarry than a ranged one.
> [{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5kEkM1La,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-12-13T13:32:53.033+0000) > > {{champion:145}} I just hate her damage output and how hard it is to itemize against her, plus her snowball is just crazy. I swear sometimes her passive just kills you from 50% HP. Would so much rather fight a melee hypercarry than a ranged one. You'd rather face Yasuo than Kai'Sa?
Moody P (NA)
: Idea for making Ornn skillfully durable; directional damage reduction
I think this is a decent idea but I believe riot won't implement it. They have said before that his w has or had too many things going for it. They don't want to add something without taking something else away. Of course, if this is instead of all the changes they are doing then I think it is pretty good. The problem it runs into then is that Riot have said themselves that they want Ornn to be a more damaging tank with less tankiness.
: Free skin for helping me pick my off-season champion! (details in post)
I would suggest that you play Ekko{{champion:245}} . There are a few reasons for this. Ekko is surprisingly flexible build wise. He can get a little tanky with items like protobelt morellos and iceborn, he can go full ap with lich bane and rabbadons etc. Another reason is that he has a very high skill cap. This allows you to keep learning new things while you do main this champion. None of this is mentioning that he is generally good, he hasn't had a spot in league that I know of where he was horrible. The final argument that I have is that, to me, he feels a bit like Lee Sin{{champion:64}} . The effect his abilities have reminds me of the feeling of Lee a bit. Anyway, I hope you have a nice season whichever champion you do pick, gl on the rift and may your promos be ever in your favor.
: PSA: Your setup to fail in Promos - Random fact might make you feel better.
What I'm getting from this is that you need to beat people of a higher tier than you to get to the tier you just beat people in. That seems wrong to me.
Rioter Comments
: only her w and ult her e scales with ad.
> [{quoted}](name=Sammystorm,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EbGEKH4h,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-10-24T01:26:16.640+0000) > > only her w and ult her e scales with ad. Her e scales with both ad and ap, not just ad.
: Ashe (The new Aatrox) ?
I thought Tristana had ap scalings on her w, e and ult? Her e active explosion damage does scale with both ad and ap but the other two are both ap. EDIT: Jhin has both ad an ap scalings on his e and q and Caitlyn's e scales solely with ap.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Chain Me Thresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X4s2p4pl,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-10-16T22:30:27.211+0000) > > My bad, let me rephrase that: > > Only unimportant countries use Imperial. Fair point.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Chain Me Thresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X4s2p4pl,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-10-16T04:38:06.570+0000) > > I like that it says, "In the American system," because they're the only country that still uses Imperial. Ahem, I do believe there are two more countries that use the Imperial System, those countries being Myanmar and Liberia.
Vlada Cut (EUNE)
: I like off meta picks too! Been playing Top Leona and Top Kayn a lot lately.
> [{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=177UU6Va,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-29T21:11:26.931+0000) > > I like off meta picks too! Been playing Top Leona and Top Kayn a lot lately. That's interesting, how do you play them? I've been curious about starting playing them but I don't really know where to start.
: Wish {{champion:78}} Anti Mobility feild was acutally usefull and stopped all dashes in it for its duration or if it works like it does now does 120 - 540 damage because it only works once on each target is super conditional and it has a long cooldown. Also wish that {{champion:201}} E wasnt a self delete button where riot removed over 1700 hp from a full build tank and removed all the hp5 from tank items too.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p2sxfe9o,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-09-22T23:39:40.316+0000) > > Wish {{champion:78}} Anti Mobility feild was acutally usefull and stopped all dashes in it for its duration or if it works like it does now does 120 - 540 damage because it only works once on each target is super conditional and it has a long cooldown. > > Also wish that {{champion:201}} E wasnt a self delete button where riot removed over 1700 hp from a full build tank and removed all the hp5 from tank items too. What do you mean by Braum E being a self delete button?
: I mean, it does % missing health damage. How much max hp did you have? And how low were you? How much armor did you have? I'll admit that it is high, especially in the early game, but if you were just stacking health and he got you with this from like 1/3-1/4, I wouldn't be surprised.
> [{quoted}](name=Brutalitops01,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=GcZJorzA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-21T21:27:06.509+0000) > > I mean, it does % missing health damage. How much max hp did you have? And how low were you? How much armor did you have? I'll admit that it is high, especially in the early game, but if you were just stacking health and he got you with this from like 1/3-1/4, I wouldn't be surprised. They got rid of the percent missing health damage and instead made it where it has a higher ad scaling the lower health they are, up to double the original ad ratio. This made it where it does more damage to squishies and makes it where building ad makes it do a lot more damage. This was to try and get lee sin to build more ad items I think rather than just go tank and rely on base damages.
: so i guess you are wondering why sej got nerfed and cho hasnt been touched. well sej nerf was for pro play lcs. where she is a constant pick in jungle cuz very few tank junglers were viable in pro play. hence her crowding out other junglers. however top lane there is a lot of ways to deal with cho and he isnt crowding out other top laners. right now in pro play the pick/ban top laner is urgot.
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAGd66Xq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-16T20:15:05.074+0000) > > so i guess you are wondering why sej got nerfed and cho hasnt been touched. well sej nerf was for pro play lcs. where she is a constant pick in jungle cuz very few tank junglers were viable in pro play. hence her crowding out other junglers. however top lane there is a lot of ways to deal with cho and he isnt crowding out other top laners. right now in pro play the pick/ban top laner is urgot. Not sure if this is true or not but I thought I heard that Urgot was pick/ban for mid lane as we could outdamage and outtank anyone there.
: i mean. juggernauts are really just supposed to build one or two bruiser items and then pure defense, to be able to survive and fight front to back. the {{item:3193}} is weird, since juggers shouldnt want this item with the decreased damage on the active. but othwise {{item:3071}} into full defense isnt out of line. when i play him i usually go for pretty tanky builds aswell. {{item:3071}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3075}} this should be ok for a jugger to be able to carry.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oAubERJt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-15T11:33:40.513+0000) > > i mean. juggernauts are really just supposed to build one or two bruiser items and then pure defense, to be able to survive and fight front to back. > > the {{item:3193}} is weird, since juggers shouldnt want this item with the decreased damage on the active. > > but othwise {{item:3071}} into full defense isnt out of line. > > when i play him i usually go for pretty tanky builds aswell. {{item:3071}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3075}} > > this should be ok for a jugger to be able to carry. I think the thing with Stoneplate is that you hit someone with ult and get them below 25% and then Righteous-Glory into the enemy team and activate Stoneplate and it won't reduce your ult's damage because it is true damage. Then you get the slow and the fear on the enemy team while executing one of them and none of them can kill you with Stoneplate activated.
Rioter Comments
Dat Kat (EUW)
: He's a tank, not a burst mage or an assassin. I don't think he should be dealing damage at all. His role is to peel and tank for the team. Building ap, or damage isn't exactly allowed for him and that is fine because its not his job to do so. I legit hope malphite gets the same treatment aswell.
> [{quoted}](name=Thornhub,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BPcgEeZW,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-09-08T22:54:36.793+0000) > > He's a tank, not a burst mage or an assassin. I don't think he should be dealing damage at all. His role is to peel and tank for the team. Building ap, or damage isn't exactly allowed for him and that is fine because its not his job to do so. > > I legit hope malphite gets the same treatment aswell. Riot specifically stated that they want Galio to be building some ap at least, that is why he's had ratios buffed and bases nerfed.
Paroe (NA)
: Galio either roflstomps as an AP bruiser, or isnt very effective as an anti-magic tank. His waveclear needs to be seperate from his champion damage; adding a "Minions and monsters take 30+0.1AP% increased damage from Q" would help immensely.
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BPcgEeZW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-08T22:45:53.994+0000) > > Galio either roflstomps as an AP bruiser, or isnt very effective as an anti-magic tank. > His waveclear needs to be seperate from his champion damage; adding a "Minions and monsters take 30+0.1AP% increased damage from Q" would help immensely. I think they nerfed his q because of its waveclear, but that was also a nerf to the damage to champions so perhaps they could buff his q damage some, so as not to get one shot galio again, and say the ability does less damage to minions instead?
Rioter Comments
Moody P (NA)
: Leave Volibear alone. The Aatrox and Galio reworks tell us loud and clear how Riot treats low-popularity champions.
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7d0e35Vm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-29T10:56:21.710+0000) > > Leave Volibear alone. The Aatrox and Galio reworks tell us loud and clear how Riot treats low-popularity champions. I believe that Riot said that the Galio rework was considered a pretty good one by many of the players and was well received. It increased his play rate, although he was problematic in pro play from the start of his rework, but is now pretty terrible in solo queue.
Jeddite (NA)
: I, too, was sad when LiveJournal was permanently disabled.
> [{quoted}](name=Jeddite,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=j0gyjWOz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-28T16:47:38.607+0000) > > I, too, was sad when LiveJournal was permanently disabled. What was LiveJournal? I think it was before my time.
Muxxik (NA)
: The subtlety of this request is actually somewhat impressive.
> [{quoted}](name=Muxxik,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=j0gyjWOz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-28T16:46:00.401+0000) > > The subtlety of this request is actually somewhat impressive. Thank you ;) although everything stated in this post is true.
Rioter Comments
: Look through your match history, they are generally slightly less then the rest of the team. In most of my history they are sitting around 500 to 1k less then everyone else, which when their items on average are WAY less means they are stronger. Plus in generally supports have high base stats and are less item reliant then any carry. Just look at the two popular champs like {{champion:103}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3020}} Her most popular item set is rushing these which cost 10,200 (her second most popular build does deathcap instead of zhonyas so it would be a few hundred more) {{champion:267}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3107}}{{item:3117}} {{item:3504}} which cost 7100 gold, and those 3 items are her 5 most bough sets just in various order. I wish I could find an actual average of gold in a game, but supports get plenty of gold and some of the classes like enchanters have such good base stats I dont get why they need to cost 3k less, but only be early a couple thousand less at most on an solo laner.
> [{quoted}](name=HaIlMonitor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ni3JAbeE,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-26T23:35:20.910+0000) > > Look through your match history, they are generally slightly less then the rest of the team. In most of my history they are sitting around 500 to 1k less then everyone else, which when their items on average are WAY less means they are stronger. Plus in generally supports have high base stats and are less item reliant then any carry. > > Just look at the two popular champs like > > {{champion:103}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3020}} Her most popular item set is rushing these which cost 10,200 (her second most popular build does deathcap instead of zhonyas so it would be a few hundred more) > > {{champion:267}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3107}}{{item:3117}} {{item:3504}} which cost 7100 gold, and those 3 items are her 5 most bough sets just in various order. > > > I wish I could find an actual average of gold in a game, but supports get plenty of gold and some of the classes like enchanters have such good base stats I dont get why they need to cost 3k less, but only be early a couple thousand less at most on an solo laner. You do make good points but I beg to differ about supports not being as item reliant as than any carry. I find it hard to truly carry as a support almost no matter what I do with my base kit, but with items like redemption, locket, mikaels, etc. it makes it easier, not to mention % heal and shield power. I think supports are just as item dependent as any other carry but if they make less gold and have cheaper items that give fewer base stats wouldn't that pretty much balance out? They are also much more team dependent than most other roles. On a side note, do supports actually have high base stats? I feel that unless you rush your support item, which gives health no matter the one you build, you are still insanely squishy.
Rαy (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thimes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ni3JAbeE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-26T15:08:29.849+0000) > > That was the case since dawn of times. That's why people say support carries ADC first then ADC carries support. I don't think so, to be honest. Support gold is so high since the new support items and everyone is so squishy that supports can 1v1 a lot of champions early to mid game. A Thresh recently murdered my Jhin. He was one level behind, didn't use ignite and both were full hp. Kind of dumb.
> [{quoted}](name=Ray 701,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ni3JAbeE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-26T20:05:46.861+0000) > > I don't think so, to be honest. Support gold is so high since the new support items and everyone is so squishy that supports can 1v1 a lot of champions early to mid game. > > A Thresh recently murdered my Jhin. He was one level behind, didn't use ignite and both were full hp. Kind of dumb. Support incomes are high? I've always felt that they were very low no matter what. That's why they have to have such cheap items that give few base stats but have powerful actives.
Emo Twink (OCE)
: Honestly, I want an old lady champion in this game so badly, Camille doesn't count, an actual old lady would be so cool.
> [{quoted}](name=Waddle Dee,realm=OCE,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EuA5K0YO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-26T03:20:51.454+0000) > > Honestly, I want an old lady champion in this game so badly, Camille doesn't count, an actual old lady would be so cool. This type of champion is on Riot's list of "to do" champions, in general an old lady but perhaps a hag is what they were thinking of. I believe this was in one of Jeremy Gaming Curios' videos.
: I mighit be a little over reactive but at least give her tentacles more of a skill shot.. like you could eb right under then tentacle and ud take massive dmg. Maybe im putting too much on riot but I definently have better ideas than some of the stuff they already got
> [{quoted}](name=TheTrollingMeme,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=Pr4hjl67,comment-id=0003000200000001,timestamp=2018-08-23T22:12:55.819+0000) > > I mighit be a little over reactive but at least give her tentacles more of a skill shot.. like you could eb right under then tentacle and ud take massive dmg. Maybe im putting too much on riot > but I definently have better ideas than some of the stuff they already got I find they're already pretty easy to dodge as long as I actually taking the initiative to dodge them, therefore taking away a lot of her damage.
: So shouldn't tanks be looked at then? I feel like if tanks can abuse it then they are the problem. I believe tanks have caused many things to be impossible to balance for AP fighters because tanks would abuse it.
> [{quoted}](name=LeAnime,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2RZKNlO,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-23T15:29:36.919+0000) > > So shouldn't tanks be looked at then? I feel like if tanks can abuse it then they are the problem. I believe tanks have caused many things to be impossible to balance for AP fighters because tanks would abuse it. Don't know what to say, I guess you're right. Could it also be part of the runes fault? There is for sure a flaw with tanks currently but perhaps there is something wrong with the rune as well.
wildfox99 (EUW)
: what about reducing/removing the AP scalings of tanks that don't need them? it could make it possible
> [{quoted}](name=wildfox99,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2RZKNlO,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-08-23T17:09:32.008+0000) > > what about reducing/removing the AP scalings of tanks that don't need them? > > it could make it possible I think Riot wouldn't want to do that because it takes away build diversity. Tanks would be pigeonholed into building almost entirely full tank.
: Conqueror Should be Adaptive
I believe a Rioter did comment about this when Conqueror first came out. The reason they didn't give it adaptive stats was that they found it was too strong on tanks of all things. They would get the Ap and then deal part of their damage as true damage while still building almost entirely tank. Although the Ad isn't as useful, once you auto all of your damage is still partially converted to true damage no matter if it is ap or ad and you refresh it if you're melee.
: They dont really work tho. Ad sion only works if you hit your ult and can 1 shot someone before he is finnished being cced. Thats great until the enemy can hit you with any type off cc at all. AP sion is a gimick at best. Its 100% useless outside of poking people in lane. Sion has been completely changed into a tank.
> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3zO7ZZiu,comment-id=0003000000030000,timestamp=2018-08-17T15:12:25.133+0000) > > They dont really work tho. Ad sion only works if you hit your ult and can 1 shot someone before he is finnished being cced. Thats great until the enemy can hit you with any type off cc at all. > > AP sion is a gimick at best. Its 100% useless outside of poking people in lane. Sion has been completely changed into a tank. Ah, I guess I've been watching too much Tilterella. He seems to make anything with Sion work, although I have found success with ap Sion by building the tanky ap items.
: No. Riot destroyed off builds. AP tristanna was viable (ish) until riot reworked her kit. Same with MF kog ez (probably, I am assuming they remove it with the w update) amoung others. Aatrox could have been balanced and fixed without a rework. At least not to the same extent. Simply tweak some abilities. Granted that maybe doesn't apply to sion and poppy. (Poppy's passive and ult absolutely were broken. But they could have kept the spirit of them and left her mostly alone) and either way you tried to push sions ruined someone's gameplay as he was played ap and ad. Altho they could have tried to keep both, or at least one. Riots reworks suck almost across the board. Barring Kat's first rework. Jax and sivir rework. WW was almost good, same with nunu. But as close to good as we will get. The rest of them are terrible. Also all the champs you meantioned were able to be built against. Yi was only good if nobody purchased either banchees or GA. Raka could be played against. She was very short ranged, had relatively low damage unless it was quite a lengthy teamfight. She was also rather unable to hit a ton of members. (effective damage range was like 550) her power was in burst heals. And she was never game warping. Simply a lane bully. Actually she is most comparable to karma. A lane bully who basically has irrelevant damage past 20 minutes.
> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3zO7ZZiu,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-17T04:30:37.434+0000) > > No. Riot destroyed off builds. AP tristanna was viable (ish) until riot reworked her kit. Same with MF kog ez (probably, I am assuming they remove it with the w update) amoung others. > > Aatrox could have been balanced and fixed without a rework. At least not to the same extent. Simply tweak some abilities. Granted that maybe doesn't apply to sion and poppy. (Poppy's passive and ult absolutely were broken. But they could have kept the spirit of them and left her mostly alone) and either way you tried to push sions ruined someone's gameplay as he was played ap and ad. Altho they could have tried to keep both, or at least one. > > Riots reworks suck almost across the board. Barring Kat's first rework. Jax and sivir rework. WW was almost good, same with nunu. But as close to good as we will get. The rest of them are terrible. > > Also all the champs you meantioned were able to be built against. Yi was only good if nobody purchased either banchees or GA. Raka could be played against. She was very short ranged, had relatively low damage unless it was quite a lengthy teamfight. She was also rather unable to hit a ton of members. (effective damage range was like 550) her power was in burst heals. And she was never game warping. Simply a lane bully. Actually she is most comparable to karma. A lane bully who basically has irrelevant damage past 20 minutes. I think ap and ad Sion are sort of viable right now. They aren't the most effective builds I guess but they work.
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Gregorovic08

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