: The scarcity and amplified reward has the potential to create more conflict around the objective (Scuttler in this case). That is the main impetus of going that direction.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BnERA43Z,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-05-02T01:35:30.792+0000) > > The scarcity and amplified reward has the potential to create more conflict around the objective (Scuttler in this case). That is the main impetus of going that direction. Out of all the changes the scuttler changes are the one's I dislike the most. No matter the gold or EXP the most powerful thing around Scuttles is the vision and movespeed shrine it gives. 1. With plant spawns and elemental dragons there is already too much random elements in the jungle. Having a random scuttler spawn just makes the problem worse. 2. There is already a fair amount of jungle v. jungle for scuttles when one team or both teams are trying to set up for dragon for example. I don't see how making it change to one scuttle that spawns randomly increases jungle v. jungle anymore than it already is. 3. If scuttle spawns by herald it could just sit there if neither team wants/needs to take Rift, which I see happen in a lot of my games. That would also lower jungle v. jungle interactions since it just isn't worth the risk to control that scuttle and there is no other scuttle to contest.
: Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10
First off I don't like the one scuttle changes. Something I really liked about scuttle was I could always count on it if I wanted extra vision on dragon or rift in case I felt the enemy was looking to take it. And if it wasn't there that was the other jungler took it. Now it's more like well I want extra vision on Rift, but scuttle is on bot side. It's not that I was outjungled, but just got screwed by randomness. The other thing is if junglers aren't supposed to be strong early when are they supposed to be? Right now most junglers are strong early and unless they get ahead start to fall off in the midgame due to how farming lane gives more gold and XP than farming jungle and the fact teammates start taking camps. Will there be anything to shift more power for junglers in other areas to compensate for the early game nerfs?
: Yeah. Feels pretty bad. Not getting full effect from Conqueror has a similar feel. On the plus side, we've been testing a few new fighter items that hopefully don't need to have the 'melee only' flag on them, but it's hard to say if they'll make it to Live in that state. Recently I put in a change for testing where Urgot was just considered melee for the purposes of systems like these, but overwhelmingly got negative feedback on that. My personal preference would be that we have another split similar to how we have range / melee that describes defensive profile rather than range profile. In most cases they line up, but if for example, we had a light / heavy split, that might do good stuff for making champions like Urgot and GP more balanceable within the item system. Biggest immediate problem I can see with that, however, is that there's no immediate gameplay connection to that profile in the same way there is for AA ranges.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LdyzovVa,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-14T18:27:56.787+0000) > > Yeah. Feels pretty bad. Not getting full effect from Conqueror has a similar feel. > > On the plus side, we've been testing a few new fighter items that hopefully don't need to have the 'melee only' flag on them, but it's hard to say if they'll make it to Live in that state. > > Recently I put in a change for testing where Urgot was just considered melee for the purposes of systems like these, but overwhelmingly got negative feedback on that. > > My personal preference would be that we have another split similar to how we have range / melee that describes defensive profile rather than range profile. In most cases they line up, but if for example, we had a light / heavy split, that might do good stuff for making champions like Urgot and GP more balanceable within the item system. Biggest immediate problem I can see with that, however, is that there's no immediate gameplay connection to that profile in the same way there is for AA ranges. What about adding a third split called Mid-ranged. It could include champs like Urgot, Thresh, and Gnar who are more tanky, mid-ranged champions than truly ranged.
Meddler (NA)
: We're targeting a couple of different points in particular. The first is wave clear from level 5 or so onwards (some champs earlier, some later), where at present it's too easy to clear quickly and roam or just play passively. The second is later in the game where sieging without Baron's often just too difficult. Not trying to make CSing dramatically more difficult early on though, so possible we might need to compensate there to some degree.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=g62V3OZh,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-03-09T16:31:00.984+0000) > > We're targeting a couple of different points in particular. The first is wave clear from level 5 or so onwards (some champs earlier, some later), where at present it's too easy to clear quickly and roam or just play passively. The second is later in the game where sieging without Baron's often just too difficult. > > Not trying to make CSing dramatically more difficult early on though, so possible we might need to compensate there to some degree. Something I thought about recently that might help with making CSing not as hard is below a certain health threshold any auto-attack executes a minion. I know that ever since the 5 extra damage has been lost on AA's it has affected my CSing somewhat in the early game (especially on midlane mages). It's really frustrating seeing a minion survive with one or two health when you thought your AA would kill it. Doubly so when you are behind, pushed under a tower and it takes three AA's instead of two to kill a melee minion after two tower shots.
Meddler (NA)
: Oh, nice! That was a fun game, though a rough one for us at times, since Brand and I were never on the same page as to when to fight or farm in lane. Do you play a lot of Jhin mid or just an occasional thing?
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=tVaY13aM,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2018-02-28T17:26:04.735+0000) > > Oh, nice! That was a fun game, though a rough one for us at times, since Brand and I were never on the same page as to when to fight or farm in lane. > > Do you play a lot of Jhin mid or just an occasional thing? I was actually going to play Varus mid (but you ended up taking him). {{sticker:sg-lulu}} It was actually funny. That game all my main mids were either picked or banned that game so I had to dig deeper into my pool. Jhin is usually my go to ADC when I get autofilled bot. From that game though I found him more fun mid, so I will probably be playing him more there. Also because of that game I am looking into what other ADC's I can play mid since I like ADC, I just don't like laning with supports.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 28
Just wanted to say hi. I played against you in a game on Sunday (I was the mid Jhin). It was really exciting since it was the first time I knew I was playing against a Rioter.
Meddler (NA)
: Figuring details of how to put some power back into Zoe at the moment. As suspected she's in a pretty weak spot right now, we did think it was better to deal with a lot of things at once, and then add some power back though, rather than trying to both figure out what needed to be removed and how much power needed to go back in at once.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2018-02-23T17:10:59.479+0000) > > Figuring details of how to put some power back into Zoe at the moment. As suspected she's in a pretty weak spot right now, we did think it was better to deal with a lot of things at once, and then add some power back though, rather than trying to both figure out what needed to be removed and how much power needed to go back in at once. Something I always thought would make sense thematically is to also have her W passive activate when using non-consumable items since she can already get item actives from minion drops anyways.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
I think the most interesting chart is Garen's. It looks like while it flattens it still points a little upward after 100 games. As someone who enjoys playing Garen it makes me happy since I always argue that Garen, since he has very low mechanical intensity, is a champion where your higher-level gameplay skills carry you. I'm not sure if the chart proves it, but I can at least point to it when people say he is a braindead champion to play.
: I think this impression of the lines being generic is also a side effect of hearing them all at once in one video. At one point it just becomes boring.
> [{quoted}](name=Leaf on Bush,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0YGTYEoj,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2018-02-22T19:42:41.983+0000) > > I think this impression of the lines being generic is also a side effect of hearing them all at once in one video. At one point it just becomes boring. She is the first in a while that I've felt like that after watching her VO video. For example Zoe's VO and lines are great and I get a lot of personality and depth from them and I was excited to hear what she would say in the VO video. Kai'Sa's VO on the otherhand I did not after about a fifth through. It just became chore. That to me is very telling since she is the first video I've felt like this.
: Kai'Sa makes the Void seem boring
The voice acting is good, but the lines themselves feel very very generic. There is nothing that stands out as void or someone raised in the void from her VO other than some blatant exposition lines (cue the Robot Devil). And really no hook I could feel or hear. In fact you could probably place her VO in a lot of anime and have a perfectly acceptable Generic Damaged Heroine A™.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 21
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=1czrgEgw,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-21T16:32:45.961+0000) > * Whether Precision is the correct tree. We'd previously been trying this in Resolve, on the grounds that it was intended to pair well with long fight times and required being close to the enemy (proximity extension version meant putting yourself in more dangerous spots). That meant there was a lot of synergy with what Resolve offers. That worked ok, and offered really clear distinction between it and other Keystones. Did end up feeling like it blurred the definition of Resolve quite a bit (what do I go there for?). Likely it stays in Precision as a result, unless its functionality changes meaningfully. I guess my main concern is wasn't one of the main goals with this keystone to help Bruisers who didn't have a good keystone fit? Most bruiser just don't seem to be that interested in attack speed compared to other stats. Also how does this play on Garen? I haven't really found a keystone I've been excited to play with him. But this one intrigues me. My only concern is the attack speed from precision and the fact you need to AA to activate, which can be difficult since Garen spends a lot of time spinning instead of AAing.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 14
Hi Meddler. I've always loved Quinn's Ranger theme, I've just never been a big fan of their gameplay. It's never felt right. A few things I would like to see: * Change the champion name from Quinn to Quinn & Valor. I know it was discussed before, but it always feel weird that it is only Quinn's name on the loading screen. Valor isn't a pet or tool. They are partners. * Get Valor more involved. Say what you will about their original ult, at least you were playing as Valor, instead of just being a taxi. * While they have ranger elements, I never feel like a ranger when playing them. I feel like I'm playing a bully. I would like to see them moved away from bully and double down on their ranger elements. * Also, since they are a ranger, instead of top or bot, I always imagined they should be a jungler able to quickly move around the map and scout enemy positions from afar.
Galiö (NA)
: Tbh I thought that it was unfair to consider Rengar AP buffs while as they mostly Gutted AP Shaco
> [{quoted}](name=Galiö,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=7BUQAWB8,comment-id=0019000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-07T17:02:16.494+0000) > > Tbh I thought that it was unfair to consider Rengar AP buffs while as they mostly Gutted AP Shaco Yeah, but considering they are doing this maybe they will do something to bring him back. AP Shaco was always a lot of fun.
Galiö (NA)
: They already shut down AP Rengar for the most part I believe..
> [{quoted}](name=Galiö,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=7BUQAWB8,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2018-02-07T16:55:57.459+0000) > > They already shut down AP Rengar for the most part I believe.. Yeah, but they at least explored it before deciding that it wasn't healthy to support. Plus it was only one of four builds/play styles they were looking to support.
Meddler (NA)
: Looking for topics for Friday's post
With Rengar getting multiple build options and Riot looking more to support different roles/lanes will other champions getting small changes and or buffs to open up different playstyles? The big one I am interested in is AP Rek'Sai. I love AP Rek'Sai's play style, but when it was good (good is a strong word, probably more that it was playable and could be successful if done right) it got nerfed pretty fast, not because it was OP but because it wasn't really intended and Riot didn't want to support a sniper play style for her. So I am hoping that with this change in philosophy it can come back.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=JacctheInsomniac,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=lspVAo0n,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2017-12-13T21:25:20.848+0000) > > I think most people simply praise it because it's more technically developed but it's stylistically miles behind. > > Seriously his bow is BEHIND him. If there was ONE thing to get right, they got it wrong. Actually that is a good point. One that should seem obvious (but somehow I missed it). For his bow being such a big and important part of Varus it is almost an afterthought in the painting.
: Varus Splash Art Update
I don't like this new splash. Not because it is bad. But because it doesn't fit Varus. He looks like Ra's al Ghul rising out of a Lazarus Pit. He looks like a big bad ready to conquer the world. I don't see any of the focus, action, or determination his old splash had. In fact he looks rather laid back and amused. The abs are nice though.
: Only somewhat related, but does anyone have any good ideas for an interesting version of Sunfire Cape that you'd be excited to use and play against? We've been slow to buff Sunfire because the gameplay it brings when it's good isn't very interesting or fun, and so it's at best overly niche right now. That said, leaving it pretty bleh isn't the right treatment, and we would like to do something with it to make it worth its spot in the shop. So if you have any ideas, I'd be interested in hearing them. Buffing its stats or the damage of its current effect probably wouldn't cut it.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ozlA8BEL,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-02T21:41:17.612+0000) > > Only somewhat related, but does anyone have any good ideas for an interesting version of Sunfire Cape that you'd be excited to use and play against? We've been slow to buff Sunfire because the gameplay it brings when it's good isn't very interesting or fun, and so it's at best overly niche right now. > > That said, leaving it pretty bleh isn't the right treatment, and we would like to do something with it to make it worth its spot in the shop. So if you have any ideas, I'd be interested in hearing them. Buffing its stats or the damage of its current effect probably wouldn't cut it. Have the constant AOE effect become minions only. Then whenever the character casts an ability a wave of fire bursts forth from the champion dealing magic damage to surrounding enemy champions. Put it on a two second cooldown. This way it allows the champion damage portion of the item to become stronger and more impactful without hurting it's ability to help tanks farm and/or push.
Meddler (NA)
: Can see the argument. Should find out this week, figure out if we need to get something in for 7.17 or not.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=0tA637vn,comment-id=00680000,timestamp=2017-08-08T19:02:40.519+0000) > > Can see the argument. Should find out this week, figure out if we need to get something in for 7.17 or not. As a person who has played a lot of Kayn since his release I agree with Gaghiel 100%. Deathfire helps a lot to get a transformation. Especially when you are behind since you can just do flyby ganks for orbs, were without it you have to force riskier ganks to get a decent number of orbs.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 8
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=0tA637vn,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-08-08T16:07:34.203+0000) > > **Ornn's Upgraded Items** > > Brief note on these. Any team should get some decent value from having Ornn's upgraded items available to them, some combinations of champions will certainly benefit more than others though. That's something we believe's appropriate with Ornn. All champs have synergies with others, and in Ornn's case some of the 'who do I want to pick in combination with Ornn' decision revolves around those upgraded items. We'll likely adjust which exact items get upgraded at various points, and what stats they give, goal isn't to add enough so that every single champ can get a really good choice for themselves though. A few things I noticed is that there are large subsets of champions who don't have any item to upgrade into: 1. Any Cinderhulk jungler that either has little magic damage or are much better served by non-Abyssal options. 2. Basically all AD casters since their is no-lethality item. 3. Attack speed champions who don't build crit or Tri-Force. There are a lot of other case by case individual champions I can think of as well. But those three are the biggest. I know you said you don't want every champion to synergize with him, but it looks weird and feels bad for people who main these roles when entire subsets like Tank Junglers and AD Assassins are told not to be taken.
Porocles (NA)
: I'm not sure what you mean here. You reached Honor level 3 while in matchmaking for another game? That sounds pretty weird and unintended, but I'm sorry it happened. We can't restore LP, but do report this on [bug report boards ](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report)so our QA can take a look. Any additional details or even screenshots in your reports could help a lot!
> [{quoted}](name=Porocles,realm=NA,application-id=osqw6G4M,discussion-id=zVOYlAga,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-03T16:21:09.199+0000) > > I'm not sure what you mean here. You reached Honor level 3 while in matchmaking for another game? That sounds pretty weird and unintended, but I'm sorry it happened. We can't restore LP, but do report this on [bug report boards ](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report)so our QA can take a look. Any additional details or even screenshots in your reports could help a lot! Actually this is something I've been wondering about, but when is the Honor level up notification supposed to display? Because I got the notification while I was in champ select. It didn't effect anything since I wasn't choosing. But I found it a weird time to get notified for it.
Wrekzzz (NA)
: Runes Corner: Stormlord's Mandate and Spellslinger's Surge
Stormraider's Surge is probably the best mastery on him right now, and I will be sad if he no longer can take it. A question I have is with the new unique on damage source tech how it might effect a champion like Garen since his only good way of procing these is spinning, which would no longer work. But unlike most other champs, he doesn't set it and forget it his DOT ability. He has to move and keep agency with it. Would it be possible (or looked into) for certain abilities like Garen's E to have each strike be counted as unique? Also how would this work with A. Sol's Orbs since they are forever up?
: Damn, ECON 101 just came rushing back real fast. This is fair feedback, and you make a solid point about the marginal value. Our argument for doing things this way is basically an economic one. The question is while we're making one huge part of League's economy (runes) free, will players understand if we keep other non-essential systems (pages) paid? If the overall change is a net positive, does it feel like a fair deal? Really appreciate you guys for bringing strong arguments in here by the way.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=RlNQkO39,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-20T19:35:11.706+0000) > > Damn, ECON 101 just came rushing back real fast. > > This is fair feedback, and you make a solid point about the marginal value. Our argument for doing things this way is basically an economic one. The question is while we're making one huge part of League's economy (runes) free, will players understand if we keep other non-essential systems (pages) paid? If the overall change is a net positive, does it feel like a fair deal? > > Really appreciate you guys for bringing strong arguments in here by the way. The best analogy, since you can change runes in champ select and all runes are free, would be mastery pages, not rune pages, which are currently free. So basically we will have to pay for something that we used to get for free.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 11
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6pBn3z29,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-11T15:12:29.310+0000) > > > * Nasus - Changing E to % shred and making it so while R is active Q has a lower CD. Intended to be overall buffs, in particular to Nasus's ability to fight other tankier folks (often all he can reach). > I don't really like the idea of % shred. Nasus isn't meant to be fighting Tanks. He is meant to go all raid boss mode and blow-up squishy targets. Also the flat armor reduction is really what allows him to still be a threat if he falls behind or has a tough lane opponent as leveling that up before Q allows him to still be a viable damage threat even if behind. I would rather see something like a range increase on his W and E when his R is active like he used to have once upon a time. The range increase on W especially let him reach out of position ranged champions.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 30
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=2WWRYInA,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-30T15:23:15.742+0000) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > **Garen** > > Speaking of champions we're doing smaller stuff on now and plan on giving larger gameplay changes later, Garen's in the same boat this patch. We're testing a W change where it's got a short window where it's much more effective when first cast. Goals there are to both give him a bit more power but also a bit more skill expression, with the timing on that cast mattering more. Garen's always been difficult to balance for different skill ranges and part of that's because his kit doesn't give the same degree of reward for mastery over many of its elements that other champs do. This won't fix that by itself of course, but expectation is it'll help somewhat and we'll look for similar changes for the larger changes coming later. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For the smaller changes (or larger changes) is their any thought of reworking (or more preferably removing) his villain mechanic so that it is not so random. It's a lot of power, but there are some games where because of who is the villains mostly are that I mostly don't get to use the boost in damage. It's really frustrating to have a large part of a champions power budget be something I have zero control over.
Meddler (NA)
: Which champs are you thinking of for CDR specifically? Has a lot of impact on which other stats potentially go there too.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=dK7Z5Vh0,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2017-06-27T16:41:30.560+0000) > > Which champs are you thinking of for CDR specifically? Has a lot of impact on which other stats potentially go there too. I always prefer to take flat CDR blues and one quint on most junglers since I don't need the early MR usually and it really helps with clearing, both in terms of health and speed.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=IGuqsyN3,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-20T16:14:48.437+0000) > > **Ezreal** > > Ez looks pretty weak at the moment. Some of that makes sense with the current meta, state of items in particular, which aren't so favorable to him. Something we'll want to consider before buffing him however is whether this is finally the time to do some work on his W, make it a more satisfying spell. Lot of value from doing that, main downside is that we've got some other small updates in the queue already (Azir, LB being the main two). Would be looking for a W that had interesting skill expression, still felt right thematically for Ezreal and didn't remove gameplay or intended weaknesses from him (so not just W affecting minions or W removing the skilltest on who E hits for example). > One of my favorite ideas was having W mark an enemy champion with unstable energy for a few seconds. And then hitting an enemy champion marked with unstable energy with an ability would proc the mark for an effect since it would play into Ezreal's skillshot kit. Possible effects for procing unstable energy with an ability: 1. A heal 2. Refunding the mana of the W 3. an enemy attack speed reduction 4. more damage 5. major cooldown reduction on W (maybe even a reset - though this might be too much overlap with Q) Another possible idea is having W marking an enemy with unstable energy which would either increase Ezreals damage (or possibly only ability damage) against the target by X% while marked or having his AA deal additional magic damage against a marked target.
Ralanr (NA)
: He has a goal, conquering the Freljord. Old Trundle already did his goal.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AsAWtK6T,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T04:35:40.809+0000) > > He has a goal, conquering the Freljord. Old Trundle already did his goal. But also his old goal was completed in the old lore which doesn't exist anymore. It probably would be simple enough to create a story within the new lore while keeping everything people loved about of Trundle which also gives it places to go.
: Spammable point'n'click are really, REALLY hard to balance and make interesting. Reliability is power, but not **satisfying** power. It's very strong, but you don't feel it. That was the problem with old Ryze Q, the problem with old Vlad Q, the problem with old LeBlanc Q, and the only reason it's not a problem on Garen Q is because Garen is melee. Ryze got a skillshot instead, Vlad has his stack system to make it a more interactive decision, LeBlanc got a lot of damage shifted into her delayed mark. When you think about it, there are less and less spammable point and click every day.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurs7,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEQjpqZK,comment-id=000100000002000f00000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T12:49:24.064+0000) > > Spammable point'n'click are really, REALLY hard to balance and make interesting. Reliability is power, but not **satisfying** power. It's very strong, but you don't feel it. That was the problem with old Ryze Q, the problem with old Vlad Q, the problem with old LeBlanc Q, and the only reason it's not a problem on Garen Q is because Garen is melee. > > Ryze got a skillshot instead, Vlad has his stack system to make it a more interactive decision, LeBlanc got a lot of damage shifted into her delayed mark. > > When you think about it, there are less and less spammable point and click every day. I know, which is very disappointing for me since those are my favorite skills. And a lot of champions that do have it, like GP or TF have some awkwardness in their kit (barrels and pick a card) which makes it hard for me to really get into playing them. This is probably my biggest complaint on all the reworks were they keep changing point and click into skill shots or adding a weird complex skill to the kits like barrels.
Rioter Comments
: >It was spammable, point and click, with a heal, thats why it was unhealthy.
> [{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEQjpqZK,comment-id=000100000002000f000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-13T00:32:10.478+0000) > > thats why it was unhealthy. Probably, but I really like that it was a little bit of everything, but not too good at anything. Plus spammable point and click spells are so much fun.
Reav3 (NA)
: Don't remember the exact sample size. Our Insights team would know that. I know that there is a mathematical amount needed to be a accurate representation of data and that's the number they get. Yes we get data from all the major regions. We also get data from new players and previous mains and can view those results separately.
How does the data look when you guys change a champion class? I am still salty about Poppy {{champion:78}} going from a diver/assassin to a warden/tank which is the exact opposite of where she was before. Because on the one hand I like the new Passive, Q, and W since they can still work for an assassin/diver build and appreciate her defining features, low health survivability and her E, being maintained. But I can't stand her new ult, especially since it is so awkward to use when playing her as an assassin and would have preferred an ult that either maintained her diver or assassin status.
Reav3 (NA)
: > Reaver.... sometimes you do gods work. And sometimes you release bullshit like Shen. Really man whats the deal? I personally think while it wasn't the strongest udpate we ever did, he is better then pre-rework shen as his old Q was pretty unhealthy to play against, I will say that I personally didn't work on Shen. I started at Riot shortly after Shen, or like a month before he was released.
I'm disappointed to hear that because Shen's old Q was one of my favorite abilities in the game and was hoping something like that would make it onto a future champions kit one day. It was spammable, point and click, with a heal, that encouraged AAing, and helped teammates. It had a little bit of everything and was fun and satisfying to use.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 16
What are your thoughts on Cinderhulk? Since the tank update it has seemed very weak to the point that I've either been building a different enchantment or skipping finishing my jungle item all together on junglers I used to build Cinderhulk on.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Similar to Sunfire, what about Cinderhulk using junglers? With the lessening of health on items, the damage nerf, and the radius nerf, it's lost a lot of its power. And right now it seems like most previous users are better off skipping a jungle item or going with a different enchantment.
Rioter Comments
Noraver (NA)
: @Meddler, For the upcoming Garen changes you mentioned..
I personally would like to see his rework completely reverted. He was in a healthier state back then. And had a better identity of lane bully that needs to get ahead or falls off, compared to now which is professional shut down artist. Also Villain is just a poorly done mechanic taking up a large chunk of Garen's power budget with almost no counterplay and no way for Garen to influence it.
: {{item:1083}} Linguists have long pondered how an item can have a name that is a verb, but Cull pays no mind to them. It Cull. It are. {{item:3902}} Death was surprised to learn it had a daughter and doubly that she was a cannon. {{item:3814}} The sharpest part of the edgiest time. {{item:3020}} In some cultures this item is used as a stylish hat. {{item:3285}} "Ach Lux, run It's the Luden's" - Echo {{item:3512}} Determined to get as far from Aatrox as possible, the portal legally changed it's name in 2016. {{item:3211}} Popular fashion statement in Shadow City, crafted from the hide of a spectral cow.
> [{quoted}](name=Kindlejack,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qhhPnaiU,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-02-27T04:04:55.955+0000) > {{item:3285}} "Ach Lux, run It's the Luden's" - Echo I always upvote Lhurgoyf references. ~Hans
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 24
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=kjauTenG,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-24T18:02:32.286+0000) > > > **Bond of Stone** > > Has been in a sad state for a while. We've got a new version that'll be hitting PBE soon (today maybe?) aiming to make it a better choice while still positioning it as a thing you take if you want to be tankier and keep your allies alive. Mechanics we're testing are: > > * You get 5% max HP for taking it. > * Enemy champs you CC get a mark on them. Allies who auto attack that mark get healed. Healing scales with your max health. > > Given the mechanics are pretty different, and it no longer directly absorbs damage, we'll also likely change the name if this approach continues to test well. Suggestions highly welcomed, in particular ones that thematically suggest big/tough (max hp boost/scaling) and helpful/protective (the heal). > * Gift of the Giant * Giant's Gift * Mark of the Lifegiver * Bond of the Plentiful * Fountain of Life * Lifegiver's Revelry * Blessing of the Harvest God * Verdant Festival * Overflowing Generosity * Smile of the Protector * Protector's Oath * Lifegiver's Oath
Meddler (NA)
: Sort of. Current changes in testing don't change Prey Seeker itself substantially but do offer a bit more combo with another part of her kit that makes it feel situationally quite a bit better. We don't have the budget to pump substantial power into Prey Seeker, we would like to make it feel more satisfying at least in some circumstances though.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gHuszPYh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-23T19:40:37.628+0000) > > Sort of. Current changes in testing don't change Prey Seeker itself substantially but do offer a bit more combo with another part of her kit that makes it feel situationally quite a bit better. We don't have the budget to pump substantial power into Prey Seeker, we would like to make it feel more satisfying at least in some circumstances though. Can it get a better AP ratio so that those of us (possibly only me) who enjoy playing AP sniper Rek Sai can feel better about playing AP sniper Rek Sai?
Rioter Comments
: Well, if that neighbor kills you went you step into his yard to retrieve the ball, you're right.
> [{quoted}](name=TequilaZombie,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0XjEEk1a,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2017-02-02T15:11:46.321+0000) > > Well, if that neighbor kills you went you step into his yard to retrieve the ball, you're right. Have you met my neighbors? I wish that was all they did.
: A Champion Can Be Pure Evil But Still Be Likeable
Kled {{champion:240}} is about as evil as the old neighbor who won't give back a ball hit into his yard.
: Well we had a few champions we knew we wanted to do already, and then we had an open slot. So I did some concepts for about 7 different champions that the product owners were happy exploring. I remember TF was on the list with a note "not sold on this one" and I guess I took that as a challenge. We showed the spread of concepts to the whole company and there was just something about the TF one that was unique for Blood Moon and TF himself that caused it to stand out amongst the other concepts. After that I tried a wide spread of different designs for TF specifically but people kept coming back to that initial sketch and ultimately a lot of it remained. I agree it's not as close to TF's base personality as his other skins, but focuses on his elusiveness, omnipresence and ability to manipulate fate (in this case through divination). Blood Moon has the rare distinction of being one of the few thematics we keep coming back to, and continues to be a hit with players. Due to this we've had time to talk about what it is (and isn't) to the point where internally we've built up a whole story for the Blood Moon alt fantasy. Each of the BM splashes began to tell some of that story, if very subtly: I think most recently I've been comparing the Blood Moon cult to the Akatsuki from Naruto - a shadowy cult whose true intentions are obfuscated, steeped in ancient ritual and demonic power. A deadly and heretical force, they perform these rituals on nights of the Blood Moon to summon demons that imbue them with incredible (and often uncontrollable) power. Each member's mask depicts their own demon, which only the most powerful and committed members gain during a trial deep within their stronghold. It is said that there is a shadow realm parallel to our own where a demon awaits for each of us, constantly looking for a way to tear through and consume us. The trial must have something to do with communing and reaching an accord with your own demon to share power in exchange for a night of freedom. There are a number of roles within the cult, visual design-wise they can be broken into a few classifications: **Leaders ** Zilean - serves as the face of the cult, leading members in rituals to summon demons on the night of the blood moon. His splash depicts him on the boarder of a city using artifacts to draw power from his loyal followers. He will then use this blood magic to force a blood moon to occur with his time manipulation of the lunar cycle. TF - is the true leader, remaining in the shadows and behind the scenes but forever present in the actions of the cult. It is said that he is the one to have first passed the trial of masks and can walk the shadow realm at will. His splash shows his power of prediction as he leads cult members in a divining ritual to foresee a future event. Another idea for the splash we felt was too ambitious was to show him kidnapping an adolescent Diana and walking through his portal after murdering her parents. This would have then matched an alternate version of Diana's splash where she was being inducted into the cult with TF lowering her mask and Elise giving her tattoos with her magic spider legs. Pretty dark >:) Jhin - is an ink-mage and master of all ceremonies. As is befitting Jhin, he all about the details - calligraphy, incantations, number of candles, observation of time, location... he holds a lot of the knowledge about who these demons are and how to summon and direct them. Of course he's also a master assassin, equally as deadly as he is zealous. **Guardians** Shen - serves as personal bodyguard to the leaders of the cult. The most indomitable disciple in mind and body, his devotion and loyalty can never be shaken. His splash depicts Zilean watching over him as he performs the trial of masks within the mask room. Yasuo - is the ceremonial executioner, a swordsman whose bloodthirst can never be quenched. If you look carefully at his splash you'll see that you are looking at him from the perspective of a kneeling cultist in the inner ring. You'll also notice that his swift blade has snuffed out your candle... and your life. In service of the ritual taking place. **Priestesses** Priestesses walk their own path. Chosen of the Blood Moon, they carry tremendous power but choose to travel far from the cult finding their own truth in the whispers of their demons. At times they return to the fold, exchanging learnings with the leaders before slipping away once more. Elise - has become intertwined with her demon spirit, wholly embracing it and sharing one form. She has traveled beyond all known civilisation and now exists in whispered tales. Diana - chosen of the moon, the favoured daughter of night seems _destined_ to be a peerless assassin of the cult. Her mind is open the the old ways of the Blood Moon, lost even to Jhin. What truths does she know, what role will she play, what future did Fate see for her? When I look at her splash I really want to know! Akali - you know it, I know it, BM Akali is outdated now and doesn't fit in. Hopefully we'll get a chance to update her some time in the future, although I'm very aware people love that skin so we would only use a light touch and add some story to the splash. **Demons** When the blood moon waxes and the ritual of summoning is complete some members of the cult are completely overcome by the demonic power, transforming into true terrors bent on carrying out the will of the Blood Moon. Thresh - demon. In the splash thresh spins his lantern, drawing lesser demons to empower him. Kalista - demon. Her splash has her in hot pursuit of a fleeing noble on the streets of a town, none can escape such vengeance. Kennen - demon. His splash depicts him parting an army and zooming up a palace gate on his way to assassinate the target within. Talon - demon. His splash isn't on PBE yet but it's done by Alex Flores and I know some of you are fans of his work :P Phew that took a few hours to write down properly. Rereading you still had a question about the masks: Elise was designed with her face exposed, perhaps at the time because she was a beautiful champ and artists weren't sure if her face being covered would disappoint players. Or could have been just an aesthetic choice by the artist at the time? **I wasn't at Riot then.** For Diana we felt like she would definitely wear a mask that covered her face as that fits her character, but as I said earlier we had an idea for the splash of TF 'masking' her lowering the mask onto her face thus hinting at her natural moon symbol. However once we saw the thumbnails this one stood out as being hugely impactful - creating a juxtaposition between her serenity and the grotesquely violent mask. Personally I think it's so captivating because it's thought-provoking - she's either removing the mask and returning to a human form, or about to don the mask and release the demon. Thanks for asking!
> [{quoted}](name=Kindlejack,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XekLQmn2,comment-id=00020002000100060000,timestamp=2017-01-25T08:07:31.423+0000) > > Well we had a few champions we knew we wanted to do already, and then we had an open slot. So I did some concepts for about 7 different champions that the product owners were happy exploring. I remember TF was on the list with a note "not sold on this one" and I guess I took that as a challenge. We showed the spread of concepts to the whole company and there was just something about the TF one that was unique for Blood Moon and TF himself that caused it to stand out amongst the other concepts. > > After that I tried a wide spread of different designs for TF specifically but people kept coming back to that initial sketch and ultimately a lot of it remained. I agree it's not as close to TF's base personality as his other skins, but focuses on his elusiveness, omnipresence and ability to manipulate fate (in this case through divination). > I like the skin, especially the particles, but one complaint I have about this skin, and cutpurse TF, is they don't read TF in game. And until you see him pulling out/throwing cards it is hard to know which champion it is. I had to figure out it was TF by process of elimination in a leaked screenshot of all four skins, and even then I wasn't too sure. It's mostly because they don't have a hat, which is TF's only visual cue that it is TF, as his outfits and movements are kind of generic in game. How important is it that you can look at a skin and instantly (or within a couple seconds) know which champion it is?
Reav3 (NA)
: My point was that by the time we get through all the champions that need a full VGU right now those champions might seem much more dated then they do right now (a lot of the champions we are doing VGUs on today didn't seem nearly as dated when they first released) We don't want to do a VU now and then update them again in the future with a full VGU. Ezreal for example could totally get a Tristana level VGU one day in the future.
> [{quoted}](name=Reav3,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Aa02NmcX,comment-id=0004000000030000,timestamp=2016-12-27T19:02:34.471+0000) > > My point was that by the time we get through all the champions that need a full VGU right now those champions might seem much more dated then they do right now (a lot of the champions we are doing VGUs on today didn't seem nearly as dated when they first released) > > We don't want to do a VU now and then update them again in the future with a full VGU. > > Ezreal for example could tots get a Tristana level VGU one day in the future. Will you guys go back for champs that have already either gotten gameplay updates or VGU's and work on them. Because Garen, Mordekaiser, Skarner, and Shen really need to be fixed after their updates kind of ruined them.
: @meddler why is poppy being nerfed despite other champs having higher winrate/banrate/pickrate?
They are also adding to her ult "Enemies hit with an uncharged Keeper's Verdict will take half the damage and be knocked straight into the air for half the duration." which is actually a pretty big buff (even if damage is cut in half) since you can now first proc Q > R > second proc Q.
Meddler (NA)
: Patch 6.23 is locked for new changes at this point. A combination of non balance pre-season follow up, MMR issues making balance assessments trickier than usual and shifted patch dev cycles due to Thanksgiving means it's going to be a lighter patch than most balance wise. We are talking about whether we should make changes to Vayne in 6.24 (the patch we're working on now), given she does look pretty strong. Twitch isn't currently on our radar, though possible that could change. Other stuff we'll likely be looking at includes Courage of the Colossus, Fervor, overall increase in magic damage from Aegis removal, Syndra, Fiddlesticks and more.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7iQ9PvZO,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-11-17T19:52:11.237+0000) > > Patch 6.23 is locked for new changes at this point. A combination of non balance pre-season follow up, MMR issues making balance assessments trickier than usual and shifted patch dev cycles due to Thanksgiving means it's going to be a lighter patch than most balance wise. > > We are talking about whether we should make changes to Vayne in 6.24 (the patch we're working on now), given she does look pretty strong. Twitch isn't currently on our radar, though possible that could change. Other stuff we'll likely be looking at includes Courage of the Colossus, Fervor, overall increase in magic damage from Aegis removal, Syndra, Fiddlesticks and more. What are the thoughts on how the change from Flat Armor Pen and Hybrid Pen to Lethality for runes? They feel really, really weak now. And most (if not almost all) of the old users of those runes weren't assassins, but other classes.
Gromp123 (NA)
: EDIT: grammar Okay, so we got together with game designers, player behavior folks, and player support agents to take a hard look at this player, the penalties, and the support tickets associated with it. It's clear this wacky Smite, Support Singed plays to win. It’s also clear the player struggles to effectively communicate intentions and strategy to teammates. In this case, unwieldy communication and the wacky Smite, Support Singed pick are tightly linked. So let’s pick them apart some. Innovative and unconventional approaches to League keep the game fresh, and finding new ways to win motivates a ton of players. We 100% support the opportunity to innovate with surprising picks and strategies in League. The only real condition we place on that right to experimentation is that you play to win. However, sometimes unconventional approaches to the game have costs that outweigh benefits. This player might have a respectable(-ish) winrate on Support Singed with Smite and no Sightstone, but the pick and build also nets them a frankly enormous number of reports and probably gives their ADC high blood pressure. That leaves us with two tricky questions: Q: If intentions are clearly aimed at victory, is there an outer boundary for too unconventional a pick/build/strategy? A: No. This is where we break from the Support ticket linked in the original reddit discussion. Real talk, this player is far from the only support in Gold V to skip out on a Sightstone. No one should ever get banned for skipping Sightstone. On the other hand, asking an ADC to lane alone while their support farms the enemy jungle truly pushes that teammate out of their comfort zone and that should mean something. We can all sympathize with the lonely Miss Fortune facing down Lucian and Alistar at her own turret, and it makes sense to us when they report this Singed player. Q: Do unconventional picks/strategies increase the burden of communications for the player and their teammates? Y: Yes. If you're gonna throw a curveball at teammates, you also need to communicate your intentions to teammates. You shouldn’t just expect everyone to "get it", so tell them what's up. To be clear, this player does attempt to communicate intent and strategy, but a good chunk of teammates across hundreds of games just don’t want to sign up for the plan. That lack of agreement on the new plan makes for a pretty chaotic game and leads to a huge share of this player’s reports. If a teammate in champ select says, “pls no, this is game 5 of promos”, maybe stick with something conventional and skip tilting your teammates off the face of the earth. In short, argue for your idea, but stay ready to be flexible. In the same vein, teammates should be willing give unconventional picks/strategies a fair shot. They could surprise your opponents more than they surprise you. We need to leave plenty of space for experimentation in League (Hi Support MF), even if it sometimes leaves us in less than perfectly comfy games. If you're about to play stunbot Twisted Fate tank support with Talisman, Righteous Glory, and Protobelt, let your team know the special kind of hell you're aiming to create for your enemies, and how they should adjust their expectations and approach to the game. If, instead of that, you wholly fail to communicate, or completely disrupt game after game, it makes sense that you’d rack up a ton of reports, net manual reviews and even potential penalties from Player Support. The net result is that players, if playing to win, have a fundamental right to experiment in League. It’s good for the game. At the same time, common sense and good sportsmanship say that experimenting players need to clearly communicate intent and win conditions to their teammates. In this Singed player’s case, the two-week ban’s already expired. For what it’s worth, we believe the penalty was warranted because in literally hundreds of games the player inflicted a huge amount of disruption on players who didn’t agree to their chemistry experiments. On the other hand, the player’s communication issues fall well short of permaban territory, and in retrospect the threat of a perma in the Player Support response was a bit much. We also see marked improvement in their efforts communicate with teammates in more recent games. It’s worth mentioning that cases like these are handled by humans and any player in a (pretty dang rare) situation like this can request further detail and a full review from Player Support. Still, with intent to win confirmed, gameplay experimentation and innovation is something we stand behind even if it ruffles feathers. After all, conventional picks lose half their games too. We think this player could still do a much better job of communicating with teammates, but we also believe players should be more tolerant of different approaches to the game. The line here is the player repeatedly showing no flexibility in the face of resistance to their strategies, and consistently forcing teammates into a wildly different bot lane experience hundreds of times.
> On the other hand, asking an ADC to lane alone while their support farms the enemy jungle truly pushes that teammate out of their comfort zone and that should mean something. We can all sympathize with the lonely Miss Fortune facing down Lucian and Alistar at her own turret, and it makes sense to us when they report this Singed player. > My one question with this is how is this any different than a Bard that spends most of the game roaming. I've been in more than a few games where the Bard was barely in bot lane at all other than for a "gank". Or does a perma roaming Bard also fall into the category described above?
Meddler (NA)
: We're going to explore the different buffs based off the type of dragon killed again at some point. It hasn't had enough testing, and does have some issues, so at least for now we're pulling it in favor of the Armor/MR version now on the PBE. Might or might not return someday.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rREex5ln,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-11-14T22:28:47.610+0000) > > We're going to explore the different buffs based off the type of dragon killed again at some point. It hasn't had enough testing, and does have some issues, so at least for now we're pulling it in favor of the Armor/MR version now on the PBE. Might or might not return someday. I do hope you go back and either tweak it or do some rigorous testing to the point you feel comfortable shipping it. While I am usually against RNG, I thought it was interesting, not too powerful, thematically appropriate, and actually made me want to play Shyvana, which I hadn't felt since farmfest season 2 jungle. My only suggestion, if you go back to looking at it, would probably not do the CDR one since that could be made useless by what you need/want to build plus runes and masteries.
: They made it so it scales better now though. They want to shift away from early game power with armor pen and make it so that it has more of an impact later. How it was before made it so that the only AD champions that relied purely on doing physical damage that scaled well into late game were ADCs. The reason was that flat pen scaled so horridly that base armor and a tank item or two would solve your problems against flat pen. It basically made it a requirement to get a black cleaver if you wanted to do any damage late game as someone like Zed, Riven, Graves, etc.
> [{quoted}](name=PuffyP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WmFc0B3d,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-11T16:45:41.691+0000) > > They made it so it scales better now though. They want to shift away from early game power with armor pen and make it so that it has more of an impact later. How it was before made it so that the only AD champions that relied purely on doing physical damage that scaled well into late game were ADCs. The reason was that flat pen scaled so horridly that base armor and a tank item or two would solve your problems against flat pen. It basically made it a requirement to get a black cleaver if you wanted to do any damage late game as someone like Zed, Riven, Graves, etc. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I am saying that the only ones who reliably took armor pen runes before were champions looking for the armor pen in the early game (i.e. not assassins). Like levels 1 thru 6 early. Lethality is fine on items, just not for runes. For runes, and for the champions that took them, flat armor pen is better as they are more impactful in the early game but fall off later.
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Guardman

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