Xano501 (NA)
: Peoples who hate Wukong x Ahri are evil.
: Pff. Falrein. Trying to imply that you've only _just_ noticed the lack of the floating fortress. I'm pretty sure the second the map went live you went looking for it. I know you! {{sticker:sg-syndra}} (Cats5Ever)
I don't think that story came out till AFTER the map, tho?
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2LFFn9At,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-10T17:34:24.605+0000) > If they can make a mistake *this* extreme and just *ignore it*, I see no reason to. This is a level of incompetence that initially made me laugh like a maniac, until I realized: if this could happen to Shyvana, why couldn't it happen to any other character on the roster? How am I supposed to trust that any character's bio is the way it's supposed to be if Shyvana's bio could be so different from what Riot's working with for literal YEARS? > Shyvana wasn't the first to get shit on. {{champion:43}} 's relaunch was the beginning of the end. However, the players back then were too stupid to realize it because she was pretty non-existent and they didn't dream of **their** champions getting pwned as well. The only people vocal were Karma players and the playerbase was way too small for them to influence Riot's change. It's bittersweet. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
It's not the same thing. The problem with Karma was poor direction. The problem with Shyvana was that they've been using A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VERSION OF HER LORE FOR OVER 2 YEARS.
: Final statement on Shyvana's bio (Still no response by Riot)
"I'd rather just push through it and see what exactly Riot's narrative team has in store. " I wouldn't. I absolutely refuse to give even a single solitary flying fuck about what they do with anyone's lore from here on out, especially Shyvana's. "Woops, we were working with a different lore state than the one the players had for years!" If they can make a mistake *this* extreme and just *ignore it*, I see no reason to. This is a level of incompetence that initially made me laugh like a maniac, until I realized: if this could happen to Shyvana, why couldn't it happen to any other character on the roster? How am I supposed to trust that any character's bio is the way it's supposed to be if Shyvana's bio could be so different from what Riot's working with for literal YEARS? How am I supposed to care about a character's lore if it's just going to change to such an extreme and delete entire characters on a whim? At least with Varus you could argue that his family only existed to die in the first place and Varus pre-ascension COULD still have his old backstory. But the "new" bio and the previous are impossible to reconcile.
Gixia (NA)
: Guys, don't feed the troll, just downvote and move on.
: I don't disagree necessarily, but I think there were definitely things that worth retconning. Again, can't make such blanket statements like that nothing should be changed. They're human at Riot, they're bound to make mistakes. And you're stepping up and making sure your voice is heard which is good but, I don't think the majority is as inconsistent as this Shyvana story might be. (By the way, I do agree with your original post 100%.)
"can't make such blanket statements like that nothing should be changed" Where did I say that? Point at it. You can't put words in my mouth and then criticize those words as ridiculous. That's a strawman.
: Got news for you, everytime someone says something that doesn't fit your narritive and you tremble at their word doesn't make them just trolling. The retcon was an improvement and the writers work hard on all of our champions so u need to EMBRAECE it
And I have news for you, "Brony" "Gaymer" When you claim a bio that has no bestiality in it encourages bestiality, lack basic grammar skills, state your opinions as incontrovertible fact, and spend every post you make being insulting and belligerent to everyone who contradicts you (often without actual rebuttal), you're a troll.
: It’s more feasible, since she didn’t get an animated music video and comic to go with her lore change (forgive me if I haven’t read it, just going by what I’ve seen here). However, it’s likely Riot has something up their sleeve and so they won’t change it. My condolences.
What bugs me about it is that they announced this as a "minor" edit.
: No, it's a genuine improvement.
A story that has less to it and makes less sense is better? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
: Go write a fanfic. This retcon is a step up.
Quepha (NA)
: Because Riot doesn't care about their fans. This isn't the first time they've done this, it won't be the last. They might apologize and say they'll do better, and they might even do better... for a while. Then they'll forget. Then they'll destroy something else. Then we get to do this all again.
Nope! They just f#@$ed up when Galio was released. It is actually hilarious. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/NN16QyIy-shyvanas-new-bio-is-not-only-a-downgrade-of-a-decent-piece-of-lore-but-its-literally-a-mistake
: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/NN16QyIy-shyvanas-new-bio-is-not-only-a-downgrade-of-a-decent-piece-of-lore-but-its-literally-a-mistake
... eh heheh AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHJAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHlaughterinallcapsHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
: Shyvana's new Bio is not only a downgrade of a decent piece of lore, but it's LITERALLY a mistake...
..... This is actually hilarious. I don't wanna call this "incompetence", but... I mean... What else am I supposed to call it?! Riot changed Shyvana's lore to the wrong version BY ACCIDENT and just DID NOT NOTICE for, what, over a year now?! This is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I was legit angry AF about this about an hour ago. Now? I'm *laughing.*
Alzon (NA)
: Tbh I didn’t like Shyvana’s previous retcon either. I was somewhat disturbed when she went from an avenger to a refugee. The Half-Dragon’s existence should NOT revolve around her running in fear.
It's not, though. Her story ended with her turning and facing her mother, and overcoming her.
: you guys are crying about her lore when the game is a steaming pile of unbalanced shit? LOL
Check what board this was posted under.
: Come on. This is such a stupid blanket statement, they have their fuckups here and there, such as Nautilus, but generally they have a pretty good success rate lately.
If they're willing to change things so drastically for NO CLEAR REASON, who cares if what they make is good? Sooner or later it's just gonna be thrown out. The lore currently has the consistency of a wet oil painting being pissed on. If everything's changing, if nothing is fixed, then it doesn't matter how good their lore is. Because tomorrow it'll be something different.
: This change to Shyvana's lore is a complete and utter disappointment, and here's why...
Shyvana is one of my favorite champions and they did her so wrong here. This change was entirely pointless and utterly ruins the character. I have lost all faith in the lore team with this s#@$. "But the lore team usually does good w-" WHO CARES IF NOTHING THEY WRITE IS GOING TO STAY AS IT IS?! No, really. Why should I care that the recent Freljord updates are good if Riot is so willing to just *throw out* the baby but keep the bathwater?! If nothing is going to stay, why should I care about what's there?!
: Do not get connected to skins or lore as all will change
I find skin lore better than the main universe lore, because at least that stuff generally stays consistent, once established. *points to Star Guardian skin line* THAT IS KIND OF A PROBLEM!!
: I don't think adding nuance is unwelcome for any character, but I get what you are saying; you want her to be a more earnest, good character, that would never do wrong if she could help it. Someone you could pretty much consider a "good guy". The thing is, for every Varus, Shyvana or Karma fuck up, they usually have like 4 or 5 bio updates in between that are fine or even great. Lux and Ezreal both got great treatments I think, neither of them I would really consider morally ambiguous. They were updated to fit with the world, plenty of depth was added to their character/conflict, but fundamentally they are the same characters. Hopefully Sona gets a similar treatment.
And then when Sylas came out Lux got her lore reworked again to put her at an earlier point in her timeline and include him. Because Riot apparently has no idea how to advance the lore a step forward without taking two steps back.
: > [{quoted}](name=ThatShinyPiplup,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zZyiA08E,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-03-06T04:01:46.342+0000) > > I mean the lore isn't REALLY that different..before Yyva hunted Shyv down because she was stolen, same now. Before she was stolen by her father after hatching because she was messed with by a mage, which now instead of being taken by her father after hatching she was taken by a mage before hatching. I mean it's really not that big of a change. You quoted "We don't like change for the sake of change", correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you like complaining for the sake of complaining. It's not really. Shyvana is an outcast, her mother hates her deformity, and she finds solace in Jarvan. My problem is that this new bio feels hollow. Devoid of emotional resonance. Why did the egg get stolen,.moneys. Why is shyvana deformed, just because. Why does the mage keep her, because reason unstated
The mage keeping her, I don't really have much of a problem with; just because he's a thief doesn't mean he's going to murder a newborn infant. But yeah; the big problem here is that it feels empty.
: "Because she's a halfbreed reeeeeee" but yea kinda eh
No, it doesn't even mention her halfbreed status anymore. Yvva hunts her down to kill her just because.
: ***
*shrug* Oh they're leftist AF, but Morgana and Kayle just got reworked and have a good father figure. OTOH this does make Yvva less of an evil c$#@ so that might've been what they were going for.
: Twitch is just a territorial mutant rat. Interesting concept, but not much room for development
His current lore is nothing. You could delete him from the universe and nothing would change.
: A member of the Church of the Latter Day Stanks?
Okay I laughed. Also wondered if Evelynn is part of the church of the latter day ska- GNIGHT EVERYBODY
: I mean the lore isn't REALLY that different..before Yyva hunted Shyv down because she was stolen, same now. Before she was stolen by her father after hatching because she was messed with by a mage, which now instead of being taken by her father after hatching she was taken by a mage before hatching. I mean it's really not that big of a change. You quoted "We don't like change for the sake of change", correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you like complaining for the sake of complaining.
Yvva previously hunted Shyvana down to kill her and purge her from her bloodline. Now she hunts down Shyvana and tries to kill her... just because.
: But now some fundamental questions like, "How did Shyvana learn the human language?" have been answered. Additionally, I don't think you can just learn how to live in a completely foreign society in such a relatively short amount of time. Don't get me wrong, I also prefer her previous lore. Who doesn't love a good dragon father? But I can understand why Riot made the changes, although I don't think changes of such scale were necessary.
That is a tiny question, a barely significant one. They spent YEARS running from the dragon, and Shyvana was half-human that entire time, she could have (for example) had her father teach her what he knew of humans and learned some herself separately. Moreover, the fact that she didn't fit into human society was part of the point of the character. Some things get handwaved in stories like this, like why the entire world speaks a common language (English/Common/Whatever-you-wanna-call-it). What gets me about this is you presented it like the human dad was a lateral move when, frankly, he's a downgrade. You can't honestly tell me that the best way to handle this was ANOTHER retcon that makes her a worse character overall.
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=esclNxZg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-05T21:33:58.359+0000) > > The difference is that Kayle and Morgana are not Aspects; they are children born of an aspect. > > Kayle might have become the Aspect of Justice after her mother died, but that would be speculation. Im pretty sure both Kayle and Morgana are Aspects now that their mother died. With Kayle being the emotionless sword that stikes down those that break the law and Morgana the compassionate hand that helps those in need.
Aspects are, as far as we can tell, singular beings. They can't both be the Aspect of Justice.
: > That would be an explanation, but it's not a satisfactory one. You should get used to that around here.
I am, that doesn't mean I'm happy about it.
: It now makes sense for Shyvana to be able to integrate into a human society.
I thought that was explained well enough. She saved the Prince of the kingdom and acted as a hunter for them, for a time. And a big part of her lore at that point WAS the struggle between her dragon half and her human half.
: @Riot: Kayle, Morgana and the "Aspect Influence"
The difference is that Kayle and Morgana are not Aspects; they are children born of an aspect. Kayle might have become the Aspect of Justice after her mother died, but that would be speculation.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Riot mentioned having a non-humanoid champion in production and this new version of Shyvanas lore mentions that she actually has a sibling(as it said that Yvva waited for her other offspring to leave the nest until she began hunting Shyvana). Coincidence?I think not! Granted this does not justify the removal of dragon dad.
That would be an explanation, but it's not a satisfactory one. They could have easily changed Shyvana's lore so that she was part of a clutch of eggs, and Yvva didn't start hunting until the rest had hatched. As it was, she was basically absent from Shyvana's life until she attacked her and her father when she was young.
: I'm not trying to play down what her previous father did. But calling raising somebody as your own child even though you could have easily sold her for a small fortune and be done with it, "doing nothing but steal an egg and die" is way too harsh.
I'm talking from a story perspective here, not an individual character perspective. What does this change do? As far as I can tell all it does is take away from what was already there.
: He raised her as his own daughter. Is that "nothing" to you?
{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} You mean that thing her dragon father did in the previous bio? The dragon father who also fought Yvva and died to try and keep Shyvana alive?
Rioter Comments
: New Demacia lore, but still nothing for Sona
Of course not. They had to update Shyvana for like the fourth time, make her worse and in the process remove one of the only good father figures in the entirety of the lore. Clearly that's more important than a character whose lore STILL doesn't match up with a Runeterra without the Institute of War. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: One dragon dad was lost, but a human dad rose from the ashes. I think this change was made to further push her half-dragon, half-human thematic. Also, I didn't notice it before, but it was a bit illogical how someone raised by a dragon could so easily fit into a human society. Her being raised in a human environment makes more sense.
A human dad who does nothing but steal an egg and die. Protector becomes a thief.
ZaFishbone (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL64Xwaw,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T19:57:44.315+0000) > > [DELETED CONTENT REMOVED - ULANOPO] Me telling you how things are is not that.
1) Your post is, in essence, "Your opinons don't matter". 2) I'm not the OP. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kfKYmzqg,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2019-02-19T17:54:16.469+0000) > > ... she had boob plate even in League's very first cinematic New players starting today probably won't be watching old cinematics
She's always had boob plate. The idea that she was androgynous before now is laughable.
ZaFishbone (EUNE)
: You ppl should realize already that the boards are a minority and that Riot knows their consumer base better that you do.
Karfuss (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL64Xwaw,comment-id=000d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T20:54:20.601+0000) > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} > > You expect me to dig back through years worth of the board to find posts dumping on Evelynn When you make bold and outlandish claims, by all means. Back them up. >but are perfectly willing to just "decide" what I said I meant is different from what I say I meant? > > I got about HalfWay through a respond to the rest of this, but... no. You're not worth chatting with. Good bye. When you accuse the boards, as a community, of parroting nothing but "but uh sexy bad" using your misconstrued memory of past topics (which you seem hesitant to prove even your own argument)… That is exactly what you are doing. Calling the boards "idiotic" (quote) and misrepresenting it. Likewise.
> [{quoted}](name=Karfuss,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL64Xwaw,comment-id=000d00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T21:45:22.662+0000) > > When you make bold and outlandish claims, by all means. Back them up. "Katarina is secretly a yordle" is bold and outlandish. "Taliyah is Sejuani's daughter from the future" is bold and outlandish. "Sylas' magic comes from sexual arousal" is bold and outlandish. "Mordekaiser loves country music more than heavy metal" is bold and outlandish. "People complained about Evelynn's old design" is neither a bold nor outlandish claim. > When you accuse the boards, as a community, of parroting nothing but "but uh sexy bad" using your misconstrued memory of past topics (which you seem hesitant to prove even your own argument)… That is exactly what you are doing. Calling the boards "idiotic" (quote) and misrepresenting it. > > Likewise. To clarify, I was referring to the OP's stance on the boards' culture, not the boards themselves, but by all means continue to misconstrue and lie about me while sneering that I misconstrue and lie.
Karfuss (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL64Xwaw,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T18:30:38.736+0000) > > One, People complained about Evelynn's original design constantly For example? >until she was changed into a succubus. And people complained about THAT when she first released, as well. And you don't think that might have been because her being more demonic, was a shift in direction from her original design and identity? Swain suffers from this too. I might not agree with that opinion, but I can see why others might hold them. I'm also not in the habit of misconstruing what was said during those times. Nothing to do with being "sexy." > Two, you assume Riot cares more about what the board thinks than what sells, and Evelynn sells. Then Riot, should go make some more sexy champions that make sense (i.e. Not Sylas) instead of imposing on established character identities. > Three, "daily threads" don't mean much when the news broke a day ago, tops. That wasn't the point. If "sexy" characters were an issue, they would continue to be. Kayle completely aside. > My point is that "even the boards think it's too sexy" is idiotic. No, your point is vilifying the boards and accusing it of 'but uh sexy bad' when nothing could be further from the truth. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
> [{quoted}](name=Karfuss,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL64Xwaw,comment-id=000d000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T18:44:32.189+0000) > > For example? > No, your point is vilifying the boards and accusing it of 'but uh sexy bad' when nothing could be further from the truth. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} You expect me to dig back through years worth of the board to find posts dumping on Evelynn but are perfectly willing to just "decide" what I said I meant is different from what I say I meant? I got about HalfWay through a respond to the rest of this, but... no. You're not worth chatting with. Good bye.
Karfuss (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AL64Xwaw,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-02-19T18:04:32.456+0000) > > Are you kidding? > > I've never seen the boards be happy with a sexy character. Not once! Oh please. If everyone was unhappy with sexy characters, Evelynn wouldn't have existed for almost 10 years. I'm not seeing daily threads about that.
> If everyone was unhappy with sexy characters, Evelynn wouldn't have existed for almost 10 years. One, People complained about Evelynn's original design constantly until she was changed into a succubus. And people complained about THAT when she first released, as well. Two, you assume Riot cares more about what the board thinks than what sells, and Evelynn sells. Three, "daily threads" don't mean much when the news broke a day ago, tops. You're only seeing such an intense reaction to Kayle because her design was just recently revealed. Give it a month or two and nobody will be making threads about Kayle's power ranger armor, just like nobody makes threads about Poppy or Galio's designs anymore. My point is that "even the boards think it's too sexy" is idiotic. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Ifneth (NA)
: You Know You Done Goofed When...
Are you kidding? I've never seen the boards be happy with a sexy character. Not once! The only reason people aren't complaining that Morgana isn't more covered up is because she was released alongside Kayle.
Zapzya (OCE)
: Kayle’s colour palate: What happened to the fire?
They want to connect her more to Demacia (which means more white, with gold accents) and the purple is meant to mirror Morgana (look where on both of their models the purple is, you'll see what I mean.)
: I like the new Kayle design, but that doesn't mean it fits her character. I could see this being a skin (Ascended Kayle) but she should always be a champion that new players confuse for a man
... she had boob plate even in League's very first cinematic
Thilmer (EUW)
: A champion that is sexy for lore reasons is fine. A champion that is sexy for no reason in particular is fine. But picking a champion that is not sexy at all and making she (or he) sexy during a rework is a mistake. Some people out there have been playing Kayle for years, and they obviously didn't choose her because of her revealing outfit and wide hips. This is a bad rework.
... You... You do know Kayle's original design had boob plate, right?
fire263 (NA)
: Have to completely agree here, I also don't like how Kayle takes off more armor/clothing the further into the game she goes. I was already pretty shocked by her first form, but later in the teaser, I did not think this was Kayle at all. I can see the first design, I guess it looks somewhat realistic, but I really hope they remove the later forms where she takes off her helmet, as that is not the Kayle that anyone really knew (feel bad for people who spent money on unmasked kayle, now going to be essentially pointless skin). Imagine if they took Mordekeiser, took off his helmet, and made his suit some skintight material for his rework because that's essentially what happened to Kayle. I hope they at least change some of the visuals for the later forms, and would like a little less of a Kaisa skintight suit vibe for her armor.
I must disagree. Kayle's form grows more glorious and golden as the game progresses. She gets more wings and they become larger. She loses the helmet, but given that people didn't seem to like the helmet anyway (since everyone and their mother would play her on any skin she took her helmet off in... when they played her at all) I don't really care. Kayle was one of the first champs I ever got on an account (a friend got me 3 random skins that were all for Kayle by sheer coincidence). This still looks like Kayle to me. The only question now is how she plays.
: "Sex sells" is legitimate as long as it does not hinder character identity/theme/coherence
Kayle, androgynous? Buddy, she had boob plate. I'll admit, when I first saw Kayle's rework art, this was about my reaction: "good lord this design is hideous". But once I saw the video I felt that, in-game, she looks plenty fine as a character. It seems like she changes over time, gaining more wings and more golden, glorious armor reminescent of her original armor. What I find interesting about Kayle's base design is actually something I missed initially: compare the purples and white in her outfit to the purples and flesh in Morgana's, and you notice the two mirror each other. Judging from the wing vs feet quote at the end of the video, they're going for a mirror between the two in the same way that Rakan and Xayah are league's power couple. I like it and I wish more characters did this. Also I'm rather partial to boob plate myself as an aesthetic.
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BZtua9rQ,comment-id=000c000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T16:44:46.524+0000) > > Forgot about that. The line may not end with her, no, but she's the head of the house; perhaps she feels it's supposed to continue with her. Or her brothers are dishonorable layabouts. No, her brothers are part of the House and very close to her even though she gained leadership ahead of them. They work as hard for the family as she is. So nothing is really stopping them from continuing the family line. > And I don't see why you'd say that it would be "typical" for the non-traditional Fiora to adopt a child. If there is a tradition or an unspoken rule that only a blood heir of the family (a child sired by the Head of the House no less) can be made the next House leader, Fiora will break this rule by adopting a child and proclaiming that child as her heir. I can see her doing that because she won't let anything control her fate and choices, so when given an ultimatum, she would go and twist it in the way she prefers. And as she realized, the best defense is offense. So the moment anyone tries to say a word about her decision and her chosen heir, they will be challenged to a duel and a) murdered b) marked by Fiora (having their ears or fingers cut off) as a sign of her victory and their defeat.
The last time she tried to break with tradition *that* hard she had to duel her father.
Show more

HalfTangible

Level 79 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion