Ratpie (NA)
: wow you mean ADCs are not insta gods all the time? say it aint so!!!......no, adcs now are what they shoudl be. Carries that have to build.
> [{quoted}](name=Ratpie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pnqp5Vi8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-09T15:15:51.250+0000) > > wow you mean ADCs are not insta gods all the time? say it aint so!!!......no, adcs now are what they shoudl be. Carries that have to build. Except without the carrying part.
: If you removed Warmog's from ARAM
If you fail to engage as a tank long enough to be poked out in late game, you failed to do your job. The only thing removing {{item:3083}} did was made {{champion:16}} slightly less toxic.
Ricje (EUW)
: [FEEDBACK] Thoughts on current state of ARAM (8.11, event)
You really missed on the power of all the new items. The boots are nowhere near as good as you make them seem. You are silenced during the active and the enemy can still see your silhouette. An you give up the chance to get ninja tabi or merc treads. Spectral cutlass active is fair on most champions. Only three or so champions actually can use it in a really effective way. The most broken thing about this item is the fact that it adds MORE lethality to your build. But your feedback on {{item:4010}} is a real head scratcher. This item provides you a spell shield as soon as you hit someone with a spell, which is right when you actually need it! As opposed to {{item:3102}} which has its shield accidentally popped by a stray spell, and then you will never get it back until after you die. I think your evaluation of these items is way off. As an ARAM main, I've yet to see any of these items have a significant negative impact in the game.
: The fact that the adc changes are being argued whether they got buffed or not is dumb, it should be a clear nerf to their power.
> [{quoted}](name=BoilTheOil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6qy08BB,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2018-06-02T21:28:10.987+0000) > > The fact that the adc changes are being argued whether they got buffed or not is dumb, it should be a clear nerf to their power. And it is. The fact that people don't understand numbers doesn't change that fact. You can argue all you want that 1+1=5 but that doesn't mean the argument holds any water.
nm1010 (NA)
: Again, mild nerf as intended. You aren’t telling me anything I don’t already know (actually I did think zeal items were 2800 and I do think they would be better at that price), I honestly don’t even know what you are arguing. Theoretically you can make it do less damage at 3 items because of the price, but at the end of the day you have 6 item slots and the new crit items fill out those 6 slots better than the old ones did. In exchange you gained a gold cost increase. Overall I think these were great changes... if they had nerfed non crit adcs at the same time.
> [{quoted}](name=nm1010,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IXHEo3yA,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T12:56:55.602+0000) > > Again, mild nerf as intended. You aren’t telling me anything I don’t already know (actually I did think zeal items were 2800 and I do think they would be better at that price), I honestly don’t even know what you are arguing. Theoretically you can make it do less damage at 3 items because of the price, but at the end of the day you have 6 item slots and the new crit items fill out those 6 slots better than the old ones did. > > In exchange you gained a gold cost increase. Overall I think these were great changes... if they had nerfed non crit adcs at the same time. I just didn't like that you were trying to paint the new items as somehow better than the old. Also I would argue the "mildness" of being essentially irrelevant until completing 3 items and then still being behind the old build. That's a massive change in power for a game that was (in theory) balanced around the old system.
nm1010 (NA)
: A 10% increase in dps (higher with more items or against higher armor) for 900 more gold seems fair to me, if you are calling these changes anything more than a mild nerf you are being a drama queen.
> [{quoted}](name=nm1010,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IXHEo3yA,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-01T22:39:08.741+0000) > > A 10% increase in dps (higher with more items or against higher armor) for 900 more gold seems fair to me, if you are calling these changes anything more than a mild nerf you are being a drama queen. Let me use numbers since you like those. At 3 items you have 900 more gold, which based on {{item:1036}} is worth 25 more ad (very inefficient item but I'm giving you the benefit here). Therefore the pre-nerf case has +15 more ad with the same amount of gold (since new IE gives +10 ad, +25 - 10 = +15). Old: 80% crit AD: 115 (15 more than new, arbitrary value) Crit damage: 287.5 Average auto damage: 253 Average auto damage vs 100 armor: 126.5 New: 100% crit AD: 100 Crit damage: 200 Average auto: 200 Average auto vs 100 armor: 115 So not only does the build take 3 items to ramp up, but you're still doing less damage when you get there.
nm1010 (NA)
: Even if this was the case, this WAS supposed to be a small nerf. But in actuality this isn't a damage nerf after ~2 items at all, let me show you with a variation on the example before Pre-Nerf three item build on Cait AD: 160 Crit damage: 400 Average DPS (1 AS for easy math): 352 DPS vs 100 armor: **176** Post-change AD: 170 Crit damage: 340 Average DPS (1 AS for easy math): 340 DPS vs 100 armor: **195.5** Because you never had 100% crit with 3 items before you actually had less DPS. If you wanted 100% crit you would have had to give up lifesteal, armor pen, or a defensive option. So now you have a slower ramp up time for crit adcs, but they are even better than they were before.
> [{quoted}](name=nm1010,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IXHEo3yA,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-01T11:12:50.558+0000) > > Even if this was the case, this WAS supposed to be a small nerf. But in actuality this isn't a damage nerf after ~2 items at all, let me show you with a variation on the example before > > Pre-Nerf three item build on Cait > AD: 160 > Crit damage: 400 > Average DPS (1 AS for easy math): 352 > DPS vs 100 armor: **176** > > Post-change > AD: 170 > Crit damage: 340 > Average DPS (1 AS for easy math): 340 > DPS vs 100 armor: **195.5** > > Because you never had 100% crit with 3 items before you actually had less DPS. If you wanted 100% crit you would have had to give up lifesteal, armor pen, or a defensive option. So now you have a slower ramp up time for crit adcs, but they are even better than they were before. But you are paying 900 gold more for those three items, which would more than make up that difference.
: ARAM - Removing Warmogs without nerfing the heck out of poke was a terrible idea
By the time you could get warmogs and its passive, poke became mostly meaningless in the game. At that point it's all about who can get a good initiation.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: Lethality ADCs are going to make a comeback thanks to LDR and Stormrazors
nm1010 (NA)
: Because armor isn't a thing that exists Pre-Nerf Before Crit: 100 damage With crit: 250 Crit damage: 100 x 1.5 (150) Damage vs 100 armor: 125 Post-change Before: 100 With Crit: 200 Crit Damage: 100 Damage vs 100 armor: 115 You lost 8% of your damage vs a relatively squishy target, boo fucking hoo. This actually is an increase in damage vs tankier targets, but the builds also cost more.
> [{quoted}](name=nm1010,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IXHEo3yA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-05-31T14:43:38.902+0000) > > Because armor isn't a thing that exists > > Pre-Nerf > Before Crit: 100 damage > With crit: 250 > Crit damage: 100 x 1.5 (150) > Damage vs 100 armor: 125 > > Post-change > Before: 100 > With Crit: 200 > Crit Damage: 100 > Damage vs 100 armor: 115 > > You lost 8% of your damage vs a relatively squishy target, boo fucking hoo. This actually is an increase in damage vs tankier targets, but the builds also cost more. The break-even point is 170 armor. But you will never really get above that since you will build {{item:3036}} if they stack armor which will bring their effective armor down. So it's effectively worse in all situations and costs more.
: A red confirmed it's returning in a "not too far away patch"
> [{quoted}](name=Quality Content,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0fN3etkZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-28T19:37:57.222+0000) > > A red confirmed it's returning in a "not too far away patch" Thank you for easing my worries.
Rioter Comments
Ultîma (NA)
: @Riot; nerf Lethality, then look at individual champions
That's not how things work around here. These champions must never be seen again on the rift.
: Great KDA but extremly low ranked?
It may mean you don't play enough games. How many ranked games do you usually play in a season. And what sort of kda are we talking here?
Rioter Comments
Kr1sys (NA)
: Protip: If you're an ADC your positioning is never in front of everyone on your team
Sometimes, your entire team is a little bitch, and you naturally find yourself in front even though your position objectively was fine. Your team just outran you.
: Liandry's Torment has an identity crisis
Yes, I agree it is overall stat efficient. The problem is that the stats don't synergize. For example, if you go to the market ad buy cookies and spinach dip. The items just don't go well together. You didn't get ripped off in terms of price though. So even though your purchase was cost efficient, it wasn't as useful as if you had bought chips and dip.
: Liandry's Torment has an identity crisis
Ok, I see what you're trying to argue now. Let me ask you something. What has a bigger effect on the game: 1) Killing an opponent in 1 hit instead of 2, or 2) Killing an opponent in 39 hits instead of 40? You are assuming that each reduced hit required has an equal value. In case 1 you just reduced the time to kill the target in half. You doubled your damage!! In case 2 you hardly reduced your time to kill the target at all. You hardly increased your damage. Ironically, YOU are the one with the misleading argument. I really can't make it easier for you to understand. You are just very confused.
: Liandry's Torment has an identity crisis
I didn't give percentages. I gave absolute values. What don't you like about my example? Gain 10 damage vs squishy, and gain 1.8 damage vs tanky. Please, tell me what you disagree with here. Give me specific numbers that you think would be correct. You are just saying "I don't agree with you, deal with it." You refuse to give any specific argument. You are caught up with the "effective health" argument, but you don't seem to know how to actually apply it.
: > Target w/ 15 mr: 13% etc etc If you know your maths, you know displaying the percents in this way is incredibly misleading. 15 flat pen does exactly the same thing no matter how much magic resist they have, and by displaying it as "% increase" or "% decrease in their damage reduction", you are being disgraceful to statistics. x (100%) health + 300 mr = 400% effective health. -15 pen = 385% effective health. x (100%) health + 15 mr = 115% effective health. -15 pen = 100% effective health. It's -15% effective health no matter what. Yes, it's still better to buy flat pen vs squishy targets (assuming flat pen options are good), but that's because 35% of 30 magic resist is 10, so buying a void staff is just a bad idea compared to just buying flat pen.
> [{quoted}](name=Backup4now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EKrfbpKo,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-02-04T05:16:21.035+0000) > > If you know your maths, you know displaying the percents in this way is incredibly misleading. 15 flat pen does exactly the same thing no matter how much magic resist they have, and by displaying it as "% increase" or "% decrease in their damage reduction", you are being disgraceful to statistics. Luckily I do know my maths, and it seems you are confused on the topic. Imagine you have a spell that does 100 nominal damage (before resistances). If you cast this spell on a champion who has 30 mr, you will deal 77 damage. 23 damage was absorbed. Now you purchase 15 magic pen, and cast the same 100 damage spell on the same 30 mr target (15 effective mr now). You now deal 87 damage. 13 damage was absorbed. You gained 10 damage from the 15 magic pen. Now consider the same 100 damage spell on a 200 mr target. With 0 magic pen, you deal 33.3 damage. 66.6 damage was absorbed. Now add your 15 magic pen (185 effective mr), and you will deal 35.1 damage. You gained 1.8 damage from the 15 magic pen versus the tanky target, compared to gaining 10 damage versus the squishy target. I hope my maths appear less misleading now. In fact, you don't have to take my word for it. Work out the numbers for yourself.
: Liandry's Torment has an identity crisis
Yes, you're right. %missing health only sounds good because rito goes crazy with the numbers. I think this has hypnotized the player base into thinking anything with %missing or %max health is super strong. But when you set the numbers low enough, like on Liandry's, this isn't the case.
: Its sustained magic damage with some health attached to it. Clearly meant for winning drawn out battles. Think of it as a more offensive sunfire cape. If you want to bust tanks build a void staff
> [{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EKrfbpKo,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-02-04T03:02:47.174+0000) > If you want to bust tanks build a void staff Funny you mention that. The 35% magic pen actually helps more with medium mr targets. The absolute percent damage increase, as defined in my original post, peaks (at ~10.7%) when the target has about 120 mr, and then goes down from there. Even though the relative damage increase (percent damage increase compared to the damage you were doing before) continues to increase as target mr increases, the actual damage value that is increased by the m pen gets lower, since the higher mr target takes less damage in the first place.
: Liandry's Torment has an identity crisis
If it's intended to to be a poke item, how does it compare to something like Luden's? It has 40 less ap, and luden's has a ~150 damage passive. Or, how about compared to void staff? Same ap, but void provides a good bit more mr penetration in most cases. Makes up for the burn damage, plus costs less. If Liandry's is meant to be a poke item, then it's not very good at it's job, since other items that are not even designed specifically for poke do a better job at poke.
: I'm getting sick of people saying that orianna can't support
Ah the "list a champion's strengths" fallacy.
: Liandry's Torment has an identity crisis
Well, HG is naturally only good vs squishies, so building an item out of it that is meant for killing tanks doesn't make much sense. I think it needs to have it's stats more focused for killing tanks, which is notoriously difficult for mages (except for a certain few{{champion:69}} ).
Rioter Comments
: Generally when you can't counter a spell, it means that riot doesn't want you to counter it
You're telling me that by making it impossible to get out of Camille's ult, Riot intended you to NOT be able to get out of it? How do you acquire such information? You must have some sort of direct communication with Riot designers.
Arakadia (NA)
: Damage Creep Is Disgusting, Seriously.
You should have stayed with your team and not got caught. You are crying because a fed Yi 3 levels up with Lord Dominik's did too much damage to you. That's what champions who are massively far ahead do. They do a shitload of damage. I'm sorry that you can't come to grips with that.
Arakadia (NA)
: Damage Creep Is Disgusting, Seriously.
I think it's pretty clear that you are not a very good player and don't understand how the game works. You can keep crying all you want, but you will never get better that way. Don't want Yi to do so much damage? Stop trying to 1v1 him. Fight him with your team and cc him. Rammus doesn't beat Yi 1v1, especially when 3 levels down. Sorry to disappoint you.
: Is this a reasonable performance rating?
They have made adjustments specifically to ARAM for balance purposes. It is a real game mode that people actually play to win, whether you like it or not. It's fine that you don't take it seriously. There are also people who don't take SR seriously. S ratings on ARAM help you improve champion mastery up to level 5. Beyond that, it is a type of feedback of how well you performed (I can't believe I'm having to explain this). Just like in SR, it is a metric to rate your performance. True, it has no effect on the game. But that doesn't mean we can't try to make it more accurate. I'm sorry you don't like ARAM. But that's no reason to argue that ARAM doesn't matter.
Arakadia (NA)
: Damage Creep Is Disgusting, Seriously.
Nah, damage has actually been steadily declining since season 3. Believe me, if you want damage, you should've been around season 2. You would literally get 1 shot by solo lane Evelyn before you even realized she was in your screen. And this was considered normal. If you were still in lane when the 0 cs Fizz hit lvl 6 you were simply dead, no questions asked. Today Yi has possible the highest dps in the game, but at the cost of squishiness and no utility. He's effective vs tanks because his E gives him true damage on his autos. Combine that with other on-hit items and his AS steroid and he has a lot of damage. But still much better than the days of AP Yi getting pentas like it's his job.
Scruberz (NA)
: lol ratings in ARAM? Seriously dude, this is what you're concerned about? Get out of here lmfao literally nobody cares about ARAM.
> [{quoted}](name=Scruberz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Ji4FnE0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-06T19:16:28.762+0000) > > lol ratings in ARAM? Seriously dude, this is what you're concerned about? Get out of here lmfao literally nobody cares about ARAM. We're on the boards for a computer game. I could just as easily say the same about Summoner's Rift. It doesn't matter. It's a game. I think by joining these boards you need to agree to get over that mentality. You are talking about a video game. ARAM is a game mode just like all others. The objective is to win. Only difference is that the setting and rules are different. If nobody cares about ARAM then why do so many people play it? Why are you trying to talk for everyone? I don't think people appreciate when someone who clearly isn't very bright tries to speak for them.
Rioter Comments
: "We don't want URF to get boring..."
URF still not boring. Keep up the good work fellas.
: W on turrets, bot turret has no fornication.
> [{quoted}](name=Ńø Çígâr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VmgN44zi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-03T01:58:58.726+0000) > > W on turrets, bot turret has no fornication. That turret and I should start a club.
Taizuki (NA)
: Um... Yes. it is troll. Kat doesnt need any CDR first of all. Liandrys is also trash on her. Also Ludens is very situational on Kat as well, best not to build it most games. So you are 2/5 on the item build you just listed. Wow. Also with Kats ult the Morello passive is redundant. What is this troll post anyway?
> [{quoted}](name=Taizuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QIfX0NYP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-26T20:05:25.978+0000) > > Um... Yes. it is troll. Kat doesnt need any CDR first of all. Liandrys is also trash on her. Also Ludens is very situational on Kat as well, best not to build it most games. So you are 2/5 on the item build you just listed. Wow. Also with Kats ult the Morello passive is redundant. What is this troll post anyway? You don't have the mental capacity to take part in this conversation.
Rioter Comments
MagÊ (EUW)
: Mages are in a fucking terrible spot
Hmm...using blue pot and full scaling ap rune page to inflate numbers I see. Deception is often the most effective argument.
nep2une (NA)
: "Vayne's winrate is fine", my ass.
You understand that most games are played in silver/bronze/gold right? So you are saying that high skill champions should have >50% winrate, which means they're successful in low elo. Then imagine how successful they are in high elo, where people actually know how to play them. Can you please explain your rationale?
Leo1024 (NA)
: Because it's a question mark asking why they did such a foolish thing
> [{quoted}](name=Leo1024,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xzQ0ty6E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-25T03:35:44.411+0000) > > Because it's a question mark asking why they did such a foolish thing And then you go on and make a bunch of similar mistakes. But you blame those on bad luck or teammates, right?
Rioter Comments
: I am the most broken Summoner Spell in the game, which one am I?
I suppose it's the 100% pick rate one... Think of it this way. If you had to pick 1 ss that the enemy team couldn't pick, which would you choose? {{summoner:4}} Oh...there I go with my "logic" again...
: Ironically, an IE build is better with ad runes than crit damage runes
Tryndamere is a special case since my assumption (that crit damage and scaling ad runes scale equally during a game) isn't as applicable. Without going into too much detail, Trynd gets access to crit very early on, and is therefore able to immediately take advantage of the crit damage runes, whereas the ad runes would take time to scale. However, the ad runes would take over later on in the game, especially if IE is built. Remember - anecdotes are interesting, but they're not very useful for proving a point. Side note: Does anyone know if GP's barrel damage crits, or if only the parrley/auto portion of the explosion crits? I need to know so I can crunch the numbers.
: Ironically, an IE build is better with ad runes than crit damage runes
I updated my findings on this matter for Ashe. It was a good bit of work. I'll look into GP next, since his case seems very interesting. I just need a break first.
Yago (NA)
: Did you account for Cait / Ashe passives, etc. that scale off of crit damage? They have a different ratio than standard autoattacks do for crit.
> [{quoted}](name=Yago,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eyKtp8Yn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-17T19:49:53.015+0000) > > Did you account for Cait / Ashe passives, etc. that scale off of crit damage? They have a different ratio than standard autoattacks do for crit. No I did not... *Opens excel* *and returns to toilet*
Rioter Comments
: Any thoughts on the Maw of Malmortious Vs Zhonya's Hourglass item comparison?
Zhonya's was a casualty of Riot's war on AP. Negotiations for cease-fire have been unsuccessful. Currently there's no end in sight.
: Fiddlesticks has been indirectly nerfed to hell
I'm pretty sure the majority of the community prefers Fiddle as a jungler. He is more dynamic and makes games more interesting that way. Unfortunately, Riot appears to only endorse him as a support now, as seen by their only buffing his poke damage, rather than improving his overall functionality. Fiddle used to be purely a niche jungler with well-defined strengths and weaknesses/counters. Well-balanced overall (never saw pro play, but was quite strong in low elo). Then the pro scene picked up on the fact that he had a 3 second point-click hard cc, and support fiddle took off (to the chagrin of myself and many others). Of course, that led to Terrify being nerfed. Fiddle continued to suffer nerfs over time, even after his popularity dwindled. This included range nerfs to his Terrify and Drain range (and possibly damage, can't remember). Of course by this time jungle Fid was beaten into submission, with the changes to the jungle/jg items. Then over the past year it's been a case of beating a dead horse (wrong usage, but it works here!) with the brutal nerfs to every item he relied on (zhonyas, abyssal, rylai's).
Rioter Comments
Lionl (NA)
: Why do people not surrender when it's clearly logical to surrender?
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Harry Balzack

Level 30 (NA)
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