Sujiren (NA)
: Pantheon fix till his inevitable rework
Giving his W an AD ratio would be a huge mistake
Durzaka (NA)
: Having a couple of tanks being strong/viable does not automatically make it a tank meta.
> [{quoted}](name=Durzaka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnREs0af,comment-id=000500020000,timestamp=2017-07-23T21:41:22.070+0000) > > Having a couple of tanks being strong/viable does not automatically make it a tank meta. {{champion:31}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:33}}{{champion:223}} These are all meta tanks right now, in top/jg/support and mid in Galios case. Hardly only "a couple."
LankPants (OCE)
: Are we pretending that this didn't just happen with Cho'gath? Is our memory truly that short?
> [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0jMpWexz,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2017-07-24T08:38:54.521+0000) > > Are we pretending that this didn't just happen with Cho'gath? Is our memory truly that short? Cho'Gath has been getting buffs for the last two years straight plus a few small reworks. Hardly the same thing.
: If Nasus' R/Q buff on the PBE goes through, Wither needs drastic changes ASAP.
Not really. Nasus could beat most people at level 6 now in an all-in regardless of stacks. It's just most people are smart enough to disengage and wait for his ult to wear off. Plus wither has a long cooldown early and his sticking power is dogshit in 1v1s at that point. It won't make him anymore of a threat tbh, not unless you're stupid enough to try to fight him through his entire ult duration from start to finish.
: Lethality actually works wonders when stacked with Black cleaver due to it being calculated after the percentage reduction. It eats into the most effective range of armor. (Armor and MR both have diminishing returns.) It works fine against tanks if you are playing and ADC that can apply it.
> [{quoted}](name=Silver Singed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnREs0af,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-07-23T20:00:56.135+0000) > > Lethality actually works wonders when stacked with Black cleaver due to it being calculated after the percentage reduction. It eats into the most effective range of armor. (Armor and MR both have diminishing returns.) > > It works fine against tanks if you are playing and ADC that can apply it. lol crit is so good right now and far more superior to BC/lethality builds.
: You misspelled "lying through my teeth to sell an idea that I think a champ is broken".
> [{quoted}](name=TyrekGoldenspear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6X9InQA,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-07-23T20:58:08.720+0000) > > You misspelled "lying through my teeth to sell an idea that I think a champ is broken". Are you really trying to pretend tristana isn't ridiculously hard to pin down late game, considering her long range and self peel + jump?
: > She literally becomes impossible to kill late game with her natural safety You use the word "literally", but I don't think you know what that word means.
> [{quoted}](name=TyrekGoldenspear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6X9InQA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-23T20:01:49.434+0000) > > You use the word "literally", but I don't think you know what that word means. Clearly it's a use of hyperbole with a twist of irony to illustrate a point. Next time I'll just be bland and say "hey tristana becomes very difficult to kill late game." You gotta grab the readers attention my man.
: Because Tristana's early game is absolutely shit. Her self peel is on her ult, which doesn't do a lot of damage and still has a long cool down. And she's fucked if she uses her Reseting mobility skill incorrectly. Also her mobility skill does not protect her from hooks, knock ups, CC, stuns, damage, etc.
> [{quoted}](name=The Leo Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6X9InQA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-23T19:22:43.000+0000) > > Because Tristana's early game is absolutely shit. Her self peel is on her ult, which doesn't do a lot of damage and still has a long cool down. And she's fucked if she uses her Reseting mobility skill incorrectly. Also her mobility skill does not protect her from hooks, knock ups, CC, stuns, damage, etc. So in other words, if she fucks up she dies. That's literally not saying anything.
Rioter Comments
Rikari (NA)
: Funny cuz Draven has one lethality item and my lifespan is 2.25 seconds...sad thing is he didn't even attack me and when i died the game ended. http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2554626520/213342938?tab=overview
> [{quoted}](name=Rikari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnREs0af,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-07-23T16:39:57.019+0000) > > Funny cuz Draven has one lethality item and my lifespan is 2.25 seconds...sad thing is he didn't even attack me and when i died the game ended. > http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2554626520/213342938?tab=overview So you think Draven having one lethality item, ignoring roughly 30 armor of the 350+ armor you get during ult somehow made a big difference? Am I reading this wrong or is this what you're suggesting?
: Are u serious ?? Jhin is really bad against tank, dominik dosn't change it.
> [{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnREs0af,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-23T15:43:13.954+0000) > > Are u serious ?? Jhin is really bad against tank, dominik dosn't change it. lmao If Jhin goes full lethality, yes he will be bad against tanks. If he goes traditional crit + percentage pen, Jhin MELTS tanks.
DaNinad (NA)
: I really want a tank meta. There's no one shotting without counterplay, and even in tank metas, usually tanks can't carry unless its a jungler tank Edit: One tank does not define the meta. Cho is broken. Sejuani and zac are debatable but are pretty close to broken.
> [{quoted}](name=DaNinad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnREs0af,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-07-23T13:46:27.701+0000) > > I really want a tank meta. There's no one shotting without counterplay, and even in tank metas, usually tanks can't carry unless its a jungler tank We're in a tank meta. And tanks like Cho'gath are one-shotting people because people on this board think stoneplate + feast is acceptable for some reason lol
: Seriously though what are the options for a tank heavy meta that seems to be developing right now? When tanks are picked in multiple lanes it is basically go {{champion:67}}{{champion:29}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:222}} and start building something like {{item:3153}}{{item:3071}} {{item:3036}}{{item:3046}} as a core every game while the 2 teams slug it out for 60 minutes with the adc just outputting sustained damage on whatever steel wall is closest? Oh, and if they've got like {{champion:16}} {{champion:19}} take {{item:3033}} instead of {{item:3036}} . The worst meta I've ever played league in is probably when {{champion:113}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:32}}{{champion:89}} {{champion:78}} are strong picks.
> [{quoted}](name=Definitely Bait,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnREs0af,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-23T08:08:18.286+0000) > > Seriously though what are the options for a tank heavy meta that seems to be developing right now? When tanks are picked in multiple lanes it is basically go {{champion:67}}{{champion:29}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:222}} and start building something like {{item:3153}}{{item:3071}} {{item:3036}}{{item:3046}} as a core every game while the 2 teams slug it out for 60 minutes with the adc just outputting sustained damage on whatever steel wall is closest? Oh, and if they've got like {{champion:16}} {{champion:19}} take {{item:3033}} instead of {{item:3036}} . > > The worst meta I've ever played league in is probably when {{champion:113}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:32}}{{champion:89}} {{champion:78}} are strong picks. Just about every ADC except Ezreal can DPS tanks down with 2-3 items + a percentage pen item. I actually don't mind this "tank" meta right now minus champs like Cho and Gragas who do a fuckton of damage. Tanks being tanky don't bother me. Tanks 100-0ing squishies at basically all stages of the game bothers me.
: Lethality is an early-mid game stat though, before your opponent bulks up. You are usually best to snowball and win the game quickly, however if the game reaches late game, wouldn't it be plausible to buy an armor penetration item?
> [{quoted}](name=KrulRayet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PnREs0af,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-23T13:39:18.706+0000) > > Lethality is an early-mid game stat though, before your opponent bulks up. You are usually best to snowball and win the game quickly, however if the game reaches late game, wouldn't it be plausible to buy an armor penetration item? Lethality + %pen is only going to be good on a few ADCs (Jhin for example because of built-in crits and executes). However, lethality in most cases shouldn't be built when behind. You just won't do damage to tanks like this. If you're ahead, of course it works because just about anything works when you're snowballing.
: The trick is to buy generic brand medication from Canada. Life brand is cheap as hell. That said, if the pharmaceutical companies in the States could start actively caring about the well-being of others, that'd be great. Also hospitals too. There shouldn't even be such a thing as a for-profit hospital.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=AYtirEzU,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-07-23T16:44:15.159+0000) > > The trick is to buy generic brand medication from Canada. > > Life brand is cheap as hell. > > That said, if the pharmaceutical companies in the States could start actively caring about the well-being of others, that'd be great. > > Also hospitals too. There shouldn't even be such a thing as a for-profit hospital. The Pharmaceutical companies across the world are corrupt, this isn't exclusive to the United States my dude
Rioter Comments
: "They have a DotEleven. This game is more free than TSM at worlds."
You're *tear*ing this community apart with your *sheen*anigans
: {{champion:202}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:81}} yes because the lethality ADCs never use spells (and Ezreal is going to break it somehow)
> [{quoted}](name=Jinx is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XEAQQveO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-22T21:06:52.792+0000) > > {{champion:202}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:81}} yes because the lethality ADCs never use spells (and Ezreal is going to break it somehow) I'm not saying they don't use spells but lethality isn't really intended for them either. ADCs literally got lethality nerfed in the first place last time.
rewt127 (NA)
: {{champion:133}} flies at you at damn near 800 MS then Vault Autos you for almost all your HP
> [{quoted}](name=rewt127,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XEAQQveO,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-22T20:19:53.758+0000) > > {{champion:133}} flies at you at damn near 800 MS then Vault Autos you for almost all your HP I consider her more of an assassin at this point tbh
: or, accept that lethality is for spellcasters, and some adcs are spellcasters making them legit lethality users, and balance those adcs around lethality with kit changes beside, which adc is a problem with lethality right now except jhin/mf, stat wise?
> [{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XEAQQveO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-22T20:16:11.211+0000) > > or, accept that lethality is for spellcasters, and some adcs are spellcasters making them legit lethality users, and balance those adcs around lethality with kit changes > > beside, which adc is a problem with lethality right now except jhin/mf, stat wise? I dunno, I don't really find lethality to be a problem at all aside from duskblade before it was nerfed. Tanks are super good right now. But it has been prone to abuse in the past by ranged ADCs, so I simply wonder if the is an avenue to explore in the future.
Rioter Comments
KennyLay (NA)
: As a 33 year old man
As a 29 year old man, I'm inclined to disagree. The league community is a shitstain for sure but there's administrative measures that protect players that previous gaming communities didn't offer in the infancy of online gaming. In quake/doom communities, getting dox'd, ddos'd and the likes were common practice if you didn't play on the right servers. We were shitstains once too my man.
: TSM only 60k viewers
You also have other regions that have their own dedicated streaming channels now like EU LCS, Brazil's whatever and two streaming channels that break this up even further to NALCS1 and 2. That's also my considering YouTube viewers. And TSM vs DIG isn't a high demand match, so I suspect numbers would be down anyway. I'm not so quick to claim this is a dying scene, the only way to evaluate that is at worlds. If numbers are significantly down then yeah, there's a problem.
Ralanr (NA)
: Why not give Gnar's three hit passive a cooldown on targets?
Because mini gnar is relatively short ranged and generally auto attacking anything 3 times will almost always result in him taking some creep aggro. If I may propose something different, I'd suggest removing the interaction where his Q procs his W passive.
: > [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=JcqvbBab,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2017-07-21T02:34:57.718+0000) > > Whatever Least. Enthusiastic. Post. Ever. Now I'm sad.
> [{quoted}](name=SecondChanceHero,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=JcqvbBab,comment-id=00210000,timestamp=2017-07-21T02:36:34.503+0000) > > Least. > > Enthusiastic. > > Post. > > Ever. > > Now I'm sad. I miss groopah
: Titles here! Come get your Titles! Boards Titles here!
: > [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=Ek1ipY8I,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-07-20T23:10:36.536+0000) > > I can't do pizza hut anymore man, it always gives me heartburn. Their sauce is way too acidic and they make their pizzas super extra greasy. Delicious in my early 20s, death in my late 20s. Oh, god. I'm getting to that point. It's a little scary because pizza is my favorite thing.
> [{quoted}](name=VirginRivenMain,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=Ek1ipY8I,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-07-20T23:36:08.140+0000) > > Oh, god. I'm getting to that point. It's a little scary because pizza is my favorite thing. I can do anything but Pizza Hut, there's just something about their pizza.
CLG ear (NA)
: i got a free pizza from pizza hut
I can't do pizza hut anymore man, it always gives me heartburn. Their sauce is way too acidic and they make their pizzas super extra greasy. Delicious in my early 20s, death in my late 20s.
magewick (NA)
: Which goes back to the point that the ult never actually an issue issue. Cho's strength will depend on how reliable his regular spells are. He was balanced when w was instant cast, horrible when he lost that, and godlike now that his e has 3 instances of aoe slows. Inbetween these changes, his ult was changed to scale with hp and stoneplate was added and those two changes did NOTHING to his winrate. As long as he is immobile, his ult will never be the reason why he is strong or weak.
> [{quoted}](name=magewick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5E1ry1A,comment-id=0000000000020000000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-20T22:31:43.966+0000) > > Which goes back to the point that the ult never actually an issue issue. Cho's strength will depend on how reliable his regular spells are. He was balanced when w was instant cast, horrible when he lost that, and godlike now that his e has 3 instances of aoe slows. Inbetween these changes, his ult was changed to scale with hp and stoneplate was added and those two changes did NOTHING to his winrate. As long as he is immobile, his ult will never be the reason why he is strong or weak. Your logic is so flawed. This interaction with his ult needs to just not be a thing, there's nothing balanced about it and even though it hasn't presented problems in the past doesn't mean it can be a problem under the right circumstance. You're justifying it because Cho wasn't reliable, what are you proposing? He go back to being unreliable? It's laughable. He just needs this interaction to be removed and then you can focus on weakening other areas if they're too strong.
: well the real issue is that stoneplate should be reducing the damage while its active by 60% regardless of true damage or not. True damage is meant to bypass MITIGATION, not damage reduction from the player themself
> [{quoted}](name=Ultra Rapid Fyre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5E1ry1A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-20T21:17:23.822+0000) > > well the real issue is that stoneplate should be reducing the damage while its active by 60% regardless of true damage or not. > > True damage is meant to bypass MITIGATION, not damage reduction from the player themself You can easily make an exception for abusive cases. Just make it reduce all damage, bam Cho is fine.
magewick (NA)
: Just like how much his winrate increased when stoneplate was added? Oh wait nvm it didn't move at all. Also, never said the two spells were similar. Just pointing out there is another ult which can do as much as cho's ult on a champion who can actually get in range to use it efficiently more often.
> [{quoted}](name=magewick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5E1ry1A,comment-id=00000000000200000000,timestamp=2017-07-20T21:11:25.627+0000) > > Just like how much his winrate increased when stoneplate was added? Oh wait nvm it didn't move at all. > > Also, never said the two spells were similar. Just pointing out there is another ult which can do as much as cho's ult on a champion who can actually get in range to use it efficiently more often. They gave him the ability to stick to someone, making him more reliable. And that's totally fine, Cho needed to be more reliable. But if he's going to be reliable with his E slows, he doesnt need to be doing 2k+ true damage.
: I mean, the Villian will be the person doing the best on the enemy team. So it targets the person you want to have shut down.
> [{quoted}](name=EnderFighter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5E1ry1A,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-07-20T20:59:04.678+0000) > > I mean, the Villian will be the person doing the best on the enemy team. So it targets the person you want to have shut down. So what? Garen still can't control it and the enemy in need of being shut down will likely be the hardest to get. This also doesn't stack hp/damage for every execute he gets with it.
magewick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5E1ry1A,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-20T20:53:16.693+0000) > > Garen is required to have that be his villain, something he has no control over And cho is immobile as hell so that is more than enough of a tradeoff considering how important mobility is >>and it doesn't reach 2k plus true damage, be real. garen ult reaching 2K plus is as realistic as chogath ult reaching 2K plus. Remember, cho will only hit that mark super lategame
> [{quoted}](name=magewick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5E1ry1A,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2017-07-20T21:06:59.853+0000) > > And cho is immobile as hell so that is more than enough of a tradeoff considering how important mobility is > > garen ult reaching 2K plus is as realistic as chogath ult reaching 2K plus. Remember, cho will only hit that mark super lategame Garen has a petty MS boost, that's hardly mobile. Cho'Gath has a ranged aoe knock-up, which serves about reliably as garens Q. It also requires Garen or an ally of Garens to damage someone significantly before he can do his execute true damage, Cho can do it whenever. Stop comparing these two as if they are the same, they aren't. A full tank under no circumstances should be doing 2k damage. I can promise you if they removed this interaction, his winrate would drop drastically.
magewick (NA)
: Garen can do it with an execute and he actually has mobility. The problem with old ap cho'gath is that even at his height, his ult never did enough damage for a melee range spell on an immobile champion. That is why he fell off a cliff the second riot change his w instant cast and he was so bad even when stoneplate was first introduced. Nerf the e first and see where the winrate falls. Problem with nerfing the ult is that it realistically won't effect his winrate much and his e will need to get nerfed afterwards anyway making the nerf on the ult unwarranted.
> [{quoted}](name=magewick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5E1ry1A,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-20T20:47:23.238+0000) > > Garen can do it with an execute and he actually has mobility. > > The problem with old ap cho'gath is that even at his height, his ult never did enough damage for a melee range spell on an immobile champion. That is why he fell off a cliff the second riot change his w instant cast and he was so bad even when stoneplate was first introduced. > > Nerf the e first and see where the winrate falls. Problem with nerfing the ult is that it realistically won't effect his winrate much and his e will need to get nerfed afterwards anyway making the nerf on the ult unwarranted. Garen is required to have that be his villain, something he has no control over and it doesn't reach 2k plus true damage, be real.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=L Psy Congroo,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:46:13.175+0000) > > I dunno why y'all are so paranoid about Nasus splitting to win. I mean, have you seen Yorick lately? If he ever gets Rift Herald, kiss your towers goodbye lol. He also doesn't suck dick early game. Speaking of Rift Herald: I don't watch streams and shit, but has anyone realized that Rift Herald removes backdoor protection? ie: you can backdoor turrets with it since he counts as a "minion" so you just go in and wreck the turret with him.
> [{quoted}](name=Dat Master Yi,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:56:56.770+0000) > > Speaking of Rift Herald: I don't watch streams and shit, but has anyone realized that Rift Herald removes backdoor protection? > > ie: you can backdoor turrets with it since he counts as a "minion" so you just go in and wreck the turret with him. well yeah, why wouldn't he? Anything that draws tower aggro other than champions or champion pets removes it.
Ohikno (NA)
: They left creep block because they made it as part of the game. If you think about it, some champs' abilities allow them to "pass through units" and prevent getting creep blocked. Ex: {{champion:126}} R (For a short duration) {{champion:38}} Passive {{champion:105}} Passive
> [{quoted}](name=Ohikno,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z4bEoQAo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:52:57.780+0000) > > They left creep block because they made it as part of the game. If you think about it, some champs' abilities allow them to "pass through units" and prevent getting creep blocked. > Ex: {{champion:126}} R (For a short duration) > {{champion:38}} Passive > {{champion:105}} Passive It's a horrible part of the game.
Rioter Comments
: This sounds like another poorly though out change to a champ that will result them being nerfed into a weaker state than they started 5 patches after it happens.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:27:28.985+0000) > > This sounds like another poorly though out change to a champ that will result them being nerfed into a weaker state than they started 5 patches after it happens. I wouldn't worry too much, they're going stir crazy with buffs to everything. Nothing is broken if everything is broken, right?
: > [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:07:08.641+0000) > > I don't really see Nasus ulting to take a tower that he will demolish in seconds anyway when given the chance. He pushes the lane, you get back, he walks up to your tower while you are there, ults, takes the tower in literally seconds. Sounds like cancer to me.
> [{quoted}](name=VirginRivenMain,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:10:06.489+0000) > > He pushes the lane, you get back, he walks up to your tower while you are there, ults, takes the tower in literally seconds. > > Sounds like cancer to me. His ult will trigger tower aggro. This won't be something he'd be able to do well into advanced stages of the game, a time where he basically does this anyway.
: The cops are probably going to show up at my house shortly. (Nevermind)
: > [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:02:32.936+0000) > > It's only during his ult Oh okay that don't sound terrible, don't remember what his ulti cd is mid to late game but it sounds alright. But knowing riot they will do something stupid tacked on.
> [{quoted}](name=BestJhinUniverse,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:06:37.801+0000) > > Oh okay that don't sound terrible, don't remember what his ulti cd is mid to late game but it sounds alright. But knowing riot they will do something stupid tacked on. His ult is up fairly often because he caps out CDR
: Towers are even more useless now. Yay!
> [{quoted}](name=VirginRivenMain,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:01:26.247+0000) > > Towers are even more useless now. > > Yay! I don't really see Nasus ulting to take a tower that he will demolish in seconds anyway when given the chance.
: This sounds dumber than the current way veigar functions. Wonder what the finer details will hold.
> [{quoted}](name=BestJhinUniverse,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:00:21.601+0000) > > This sounds dumber than the current way veigar functions. > > Wonder what the finer details will hold. It's only during his ult
: Its ok HateDaddy said this is a healthy buff.
> [{quoted}](name=ButtHurtDarius,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=ub5zu4vh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-20T01:54:34.813+0000) > > Its ok HateDaddy said this is a healthy buff. ^
: His body slam needs counterplay in melee range because currently it has none or at least lower reward. Urgot treatment with short delay would do the trick or maybe Vi treatment: the longer he channels the more damage, CC and range he has or if they want to make his dash unique as the one of the few insta ones just make it apply reduced CC and/or reduced duration of it when hit in low range. As for ability to stop dashes: it would most likely require for him to lose his hard CC on E, displacements stop dashes (Quinn E, Yasuo Tornado, Thresh Q and E, Blitzcrank Q, Janna R etc.). Getting rid of displacement from Grag's E lowers his skill ceiling as it needs to be taken into account in order to do geometry combo so I'm not really a fan of this. As for damage they need to put more emphasis on making use of his charged Q: reduce damage of noncharged Q and increase it on the charged one. They could also remove or reduce slow on basic Q and make it apply on the charged one, it would reduce his already good sticking power and his safety quite a bit. Rest is quite needed in order to clear jungle at reasonable speed.
> [{quoted}](name=The Deafsinger,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-19T10:08:19.819+0000) > > His body slam needs counterplay in melee range because currently it has none or at least lower reward. Urgot treatment with short delay would do the trick or maybe Vi treatment: the longer he channels the more damage, CC and range he has or if they want to make his dash unique as the one of the few insta ones just make it apply reduced CC and/or reduced duration of it when hit in low range. > > As for ability to stop dashes: it would most likely require for him to lose his hard CC on E, displacements stop dashes (Quinn E, Yasuo Tornado, Thresh Q and E, Blitzcrank Q, Janna R etc.). Getting rid of displacement from Grag's E lowers his skill ceiling as it needs to be taken into account in order to do geometry combo so I'm not really a fan of this. > > As for damage they need to put more emphasis on making use of his charged Q: reduce damage of noncharged Q and increase it on the charged one. They could also remove or reduce slow on basic Q and make it apply on the charged one, it would reduce his already good sticking power and his safety quite a bit. Rest is quite needed in order to clear jungle at reasonable speed. I believe the idea here is that his knockup shouldn't work mid dash. I don't know if such a change is actually possible but something needs to change. You literally can't engage on Gragas and his ability to poke/all-in on his choosing make that unfair.
KitSun9 (NA)
: I personally am extremely biased against Gragas so... I wouldn't mind if he was Azir'd for several patches....
> [{quoted}](name=KitSun9,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-07-19T14:06:15.144+0000) > > I personally am extremely biased against Gragas so... I wouldn't mind if he was Azir'd for several patches.... He's not a bad design, he just needs real windows of weakness to exploit him. Currently, Grag pokes with Q in more difficult lanes and saves W for when he gets engaged upon then Es the target as soon as they go on him and pops them with his empowered auto and retreats without much you can do. In this time, he's also sustaining. In matches he can bully, he straight up just maxes W and sits on top of you. All that is fine, he has versatility, meaningful choices in which spells to max and when but his E denies his opponent interaction so it makes him safe, oppressive and frustrating all in one. Remove its ability to stop dashes, it makes interaction possible and it means he has to time it correctly rather than just holding onto it when you're mid dash.
: His R is a fast acting burst tool with a below average CD. Many ults in the game are around 120s, his ult cd is 100/90/80s. If they wanted to keep his current burst level while bumping his power down ult CD makes sense to do it. That said, I think putting some more risk in his E by making his hitbox 180 degrees instead of a full circle would bump him down too and put some more skill in the champion. The thing is so huge you can just flash into a group of enemies and it pops up all kinds of people. I'm ok with it having some extended AoE but there needs to be a zone you can move to so you can avoid it, if someone dashes past him I consider that an outplay and they should have some priority.
> [{quoted}](name=TwitchInMyPants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-07-19T15:46:22.653+0000) > > His R is a fast acting burst tool with a below average CD. Many ults in the game are around 120s, his ult cd is 100/90/80s. If they wanted to keep his current burst level while bumping his power down ult CD makes sense to do it. That said, I think putting some more risk in his E by making his hitbox 180 degrees instead of a full circle would bump him down too and put some more skill in the champion. The thing is so huge you can just flash into a group of enemies and it pops up all kinds of people. I'm ok with it having some extended AoE but there needs to be a zone you can move to so you can avoid it, if someone dashes past him I consider that an outplay and they should have some priority. His ult loses games as quickly as it wins them. I like that about it and that's why they should preserve its power since it's potential works both ways. Not to mention, there's several ways to outplay his ult. It's not nearly as reliable as other initiation tools, so I have no interest in seeing his ult CD increased.
: His problems are his damage and basically everything about his e imo
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-07-19T17:07:24.693+0000) > > His problems are his damage and basically everything about his e imo I wouldn't mind his damage so much if he didn't E onto me to stun/knockback and prevent any sort of retaliation whatsoever. That's my point, Gragas can make it legitimately impossible to interact with him.
: > [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-19T07:34:50.383+0000) > > *his body slam needs to have it's ability to stop dashes removed.* this is not possible unless you remove the knockback
> [{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MGhb7giU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-19T13:16:31.589+0000) > > this is not possible unless you remove the knockback Are you sure? They managed to change Ahris charm to stop canceling dashes and it still kept its taunt effect.
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HateDaddy

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