GavinTFI (NA)
: People reporting for off meta picks
Because people are idiots. As you get 'further' in the game there will be less of an obsession with ks'ing. Play what you want and ignore them. As far as the report, it doesn't matter. It's not going to count for anything since you didn't do anything wrong. Lastly, keep in mind there is only one report needed to have the system review a game. Getting 9 reports does the same as 1. You're better off never asking for a report because if you do it excessively in a game, it can be viewed as 'negative attitude' and get you punished.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hazy Shade,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=g02Mb9EV,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-05-05T21:42:39.497+0000) > > If > > You can avoid being toxic > > > What's confusing? > > > Edit: it's your logic not mine The problem is you don't know what I'm referring to by "provoked"
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=g02Mb9EV,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-05-05T21:46:42.252+0000) > > The problem is you don't know what I'm referring to by "provoked" How else are you being provoked? I've already covered verbal and griefing. If you're getting angry or frustrated because someone is playing poorly, that's on you. That's internal and something you need to work on. It's not other players responsibility to emotionally support you or be your emotional punching bag.
: Definitely agree. Verbal toxicity should not be bannable since there is a mute button, it's a competitive game, and most toxicity is provoked
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=g02Mb9EV,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-05T21:13:03.346+0000) > If > most toxicity is provoked You can avoid being toxic > since there is a mute button What's confusing? Edit: it's your logic not mine
: Definitely agree. Verbal toxicity should not be bannable since there is a mute button, it's a competitive game, and most toxicity is provoked
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=g02Mb9EV,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-05T21:13:03.346+0000) > > Definitely agree. Verbal toxicity should not be bannable since there is a mute button, it's a competitive game, and most toxicity is provoked If you are being verbally provoked, use the mute button, as you say. If you are being griefed, they are looking for a response, so being toxic validates what they did and encourages more griefing. Control your emotions and rise above provocation.
: Understanding why I was banned
Sure. Post the chat logs from your ban.
: Robots and kids.
You post is a bit of a ramble. Where you banned for account sharing or for toxicity? Also, the boards can't get you unbanned. You have to send a support ticket.
: i believe only the N word is a zero tolerance phrase, but it frustrates me to get a chat restriction because it will most likely mean i dont get a victorious skin at the end of the season
> [{quoted}](name=Smokezzzzzzz,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=M5IhG7F6,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T20:32:12.724+0000) > > i believe only the N word is a zero tolerance phrase, but it frustrates me to get a chat restriction because it will most likely mean i dont get a victorious skin at the end of the season Lol no there are definitely more than that. Racist, sexist, homophobic and suggesting self harm are the big ones. You might have time though to get back up depending on how much you play and how well you can stop yourself from saying anything toxic lol. Just auto bind some positive phrases to extra mouse buttons or keys and press them till you get honor unlocked instead of using chat.
: Yeah but i never get any decent support while playing adc and its really frustrating. I feel like supports are doing this because they are frustrated of getting autofilled. So riot needs to fix something in their matchmaking system i guess because being stuck on a lane with supports that are just not into playing support makes the adc role far from fun
> [{quoted}](name=Smokezzzzzzz,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=M5IhG7F6,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T20:11:22.976+0000) > > Yeah but i never get any decent support while playing adc and its really frustrating. I feel like supports are doing this because they are frustrated of getting autofilled. So riot needs to fix something in their matchmaking system i guess because being stuck on a lane with supports that are just not into playing support makes the adc role far from fun Yeah I get that. Support has always been a problem since it's typically less desired role. I almost wish it didn't exist lol. Just try not to lose your mind at the outset of the game and give your support the benefit of the doubt in the future. They might turn out to be decent. Try to find a support duo too. It does suck you got punished and I feel for you. Look on the bright side, it was only a chat restriction. Like someone else mentioned, I thought re**** fell into the zero tolerance phrases which is usually an auto 14 day ban.
: before i did start to int she went to lane without doing a leash to take the first 4 minions. every time she took one she pressed the laughing emote. this wasnt a accident for sure
> [{quoted}](name=Smokezzzzzzz,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=M5IhG7F6,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-05T19:57:32.436+0000) > > before i did start to int she went to lane without doing a leash to take the first 4 minions. every time she took one she pressed the laughing emote. this wasnt a accident for sure I'm not saying this particular incident wasnt intentional but you did say 95% of your games the support does this. You're the only common denominator. Besides she may have had a reason to do what she did. Maybe her strat was to push and get an early level 2 for herself and get a kill, or some other dumb idea. You didn't ask though. You just went nuclear. Plus, later in the chat it looks like she was asking you to try to play. And the thing everyone hates to hear, retaliation isn't an excuse. You can only control your behavior. Is it annoying? Does it piss you off? Yes and yes. I get it. I play the game too.
Lexy123 (EUNE)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Lexy123,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=M5IhG7F6,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-05T19:55:38.449+0000) > > ..Removed by Moderation.. The system goes beyond zt phrases.
EvX3 (NA)
: The State of the Report System
Because I'm a masochist I'd like to respond to this in more detail later but just an initial thought for you to consider is Riot games as well as other big game companies do a lot of research into player behavior. I'll need to find the source of this but in DOTA2 the only indicator of whether a new player would continue to play the game was whether they had reported someone for verbal abuse. That was the only common denominator. Riot I think has similar stats but I can't remember off hand.
: Bullshit chat restriction
Wooooow, this is some next level. You were toxic in general but the re**** comments probably what hit you the hardest. Tip: instead of being an ass try to be nice. If someone is taking your cs, as an AD assume it was an accident first. If they continue, calmly ask them to stop. "Hey lux try not to take cs." If it doesn't seem like they know how to stop their champ from auto attacking, as is the case sometimes, just say "hey lux, press S so you don't auto the minions." Nothing is more tilting to me when I get stuck support than an adc that loses their minds if I accidentally take a cs and start ranting at me. Fine, if you're gonna accuse me of taking cs, might as well ACTUALLY take the cs especially if you're gonna int.
: FUMING over a 14 day ban from "intentionally feeding" fo going 1/7 one game due to connection issues
> I was suspended for connection issues by someone who was griefing and sent in a manual ticket. How do you know this?
Shark157 (NA)
: Would I get banned for feeding?
I can't tell if you are trolling or not. But, no you probably aren't going to get banned for feeding. The system is really conservative when it comes to punishing people for feeding since it's hard to actually determine whether it was intentional or someone having a bad game. I'd suggest getting more familiar with the game before playing ranked and follow the suggested build paths until you learn the items.
: Yeah, whatever. Katana is a defined object. You can look this word up in any dictionary and always get the same definition. People chose to call the particular type of sword this way. "speech expressing hatred of a particular group of people" - from Merriam Webster. How calling someone autistic In game makes you hate them? I think you should express hatred in a more open way. Like, I HATE "some" people. Unlike katana, you can argue all day here. Falsely labeling people Racist or haters or even Nazi, is making this society toxic and cancerous. It poisons people's minds. What's next? Calling a girl pretty in game makes you rapist? According to SJW morons, it does. Stop assuming the worst things about people you know nothing about. You can't judge people for crimes they never committed.
> [{quoted}](name=GoldsmithSmarty,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IP8bNlzN,comment-id=000c0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-05T16:31:10.760+0000) > > How calling someone autistic In game makes you hate them? You're calling someone autistic to insult or demean them. This word would have no weight as an insult if you didn't have negative view of it. You're disparaging a group of people that have a developmental disorder. Otherwise you wouldn't use it as an insult. > Falsely labeling people Racist or haters or even Nazi I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is people can use hate speech even if they aren't those things. Not that lessens the impact of what they are saying. > Calling a girl pretty in game makes you rapist? According to SJW morons, it does. This is silly and not worth the effort to respond. > Stop assuming the worst things about people I don't, but if I do see someone calling someone else a %%% when they get mad I'm going to assume that person is some level of homophobic. Again, it goes back to the idea that if you don't have a problem with something, you wouldn't view it as an insult.
: 14 day suspension for trying to shut this other toxic fuck up
Pretty much everything you typed was toxic in some form or another.
Vreivai (NA)
: The example I used was an extreme example to prove a point. And yes, I have seen chat logs where someone has been relatively non-abusive toward their teammates **except** for the one instance of a zero tolerance word. And I don't believe that chat like that creates anywhere near as much of a negative atmosphere as the ones where you see someone spending the entire game berating their team. And yet the former is punished more severely.
> [{quoted}](name=Vreivai,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EfAIRpc5,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-03T17:08:04.527+0000) > > The example I used was an extreme example to prove a point. And yes, I have seen chat logs where someone has been relatively non-abusive toward their teammates **except** for the one instance of a zero tolerance word. And I don't believe that chat like that creates anywhere near as much of a negative atmosphere as the ones where you see someone spending the entire game berating their team. And yet the former is punished more severely. I didn't imply that zt phrases wouldn't get you an auto escalated ban. In the scenario, you are probably right in the bulk of situations it occurs in, a random n word isn't going to affect people like constant flame. However, Riot has said part of their belief is by allowing toxicity it's tacitly saying they support it. Plus it's not uncommon. Go look at other big MMO type games and look at their codes of conduct.
zlajo (EUNE)
: It's hard when they are bashing you with mother and personal insults to stay so calm, unless you are a plant. Then you just don't care. If Riot would share the full chat, you would see the severity of their slander... But Riot likes it selective....
> [{quoted}](name=zlajo,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rkgsV0pO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-03T21:59:46.990+0000) > > It's hard when they are bashing you with mother and personal insults to stay so calm, unless you are a plant. Then you just don't care. If Riot would share the full chat, you would see the severity of their slander... But Riot likes it selective.... What they said isn't relevant. This is about you, not them. As long as you reported them, if they were toxic, the system will get them as well.
zlajo (EUNE)
: Riot expects you to behave like a plant ( obnoxious)
What you should have said > In-Game > zlajo: i can tank a bit > zlajo: from lvl 2 we can trade on bot > zlajo: np > zlajo: care > zlajo: we are just trading at first > zlajo: ye morg > zlajo: j4 focus on helping mid > zlajo: i cant Q through his ult > > Game 2 > Pre-Game > zlajo: dont troll... > zlajo: i dont want janna > zlajo: then leave > zlajo: im not playing janna > In-Game > zlajo: im support > zlajo: i didint troll XD > zlajo: <3 > zlajo: i was out of range > zlajo: vi > zlajo: stop going in solo like that > zlajo: i could not even ult you > zlajo: how far u ran > zlajo: u were out of range
: i Do not think reporting people works
You should probably delete the names since I think it's against the board rules to have them in the post.
Vreivai (NA)
: The reason for that is that it's far easier for an algorithm to detect toxic chat than it is for it to determine the intent of gameplay. I do agree, though, that the system tends to have poor priorities in terms of how it punishes chat, though. If you spend all game berating, insulting or otherwise harassing a player, it will likely take several games just to get to a 10-game chat restriction. On the other hand, if you are positive all game except for when you say the N word once, you immediately go up a 14-day ban. And then after that, say something like "you're bad" to someone, and now you're permabanned. In this case, which player created a more negative experience for more players? Likely the former, despite being treated far more leniently. Though, thinking about it a bit more, it's probably for PR reasons that the zero-tolerance part of the system exists.
> [{quoted}](name=Vreivai,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EfAIRpc5,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-03T02:05:59.368+0000) > > The reason for that is that it's far easier for an algorithm to detect toxic chat than it is for it to determine the intent of gameplay. > > I do agree, though, that the system tends to have poor priorities in terms of how it punishes chat, though. If you spend all game berating, insulting or otherwise harassing a player, it will likely take several games just to get to a 10-game chat restriction. On the other hand, if you are positive all game except for when you say the N word once, you immediately go up a 14-day ban. And then after that, say something like "you're bad" to someone, and now you're permabanned. In this case, which player created a more negative experience for more players? Likely the former, despite being treated far more leniently. > > Though, thinking about it a bit more, it's probably for PR reasons that the zero-tolerance part of the system exists. Your example is faulty and unlikely to happen. Why in the world would someone say the n word. I don't buy the 'it just slipped' argument. You have to physically type it out. Plus if the person is typically positive, they will still be positive after their ban and they 'toxicity meter' will decay back down putting them out of harms way. Saying, 'youre bad,' once in chat isn't going to be considered toxic enough.
: > [{quoted}](name=SirHydro,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5qzvVOJ5,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-05-02T00:05:43.804+0000) > > I think it's hillarious the way they treat the players, and how the mods act on the boards. Yet they can't even clean up their own house! Ah hahah. Fix the shit in your own backyard before you try to police others.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} This is part of my frustration as well. What kind of world is it when people consider words on the internet more detrimental to the way real people are treated in their real world work environments?
> [{quoted}](name=stanjer123,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5qzvVOJ5,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-05-02T00:23:10.464+0000) > > This is part of my frustration as well. What kind of world is it when people consider words on the internet more detrimental to the way real people are treated in their real world work environments? I've never understood this logic. Scenario A is worse than Scenario B so we should ignore Scenario B even if it can be addressed. Which is basically what your post is about. Complaining about Riot working on player behavior when they have potentially worse behavior in-house. They aren't mutually exclusive though.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hazy Shade,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=14cNxy1E,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-27T06:41:55.853+0000) > > To answer your title, to me they aren't. Norms are the worst thing ever because no one wants to ever finish the game. Makes me wanna claw my eyes out. > > I'm sure you have strong feelings about this but this doesn't actually happen unless someone uses hate speech, racism, etc. > > Don't do this to yourself. You are literally setting yourself up to be stressed out. Worst way to play the game because you are mentally going in, every time you queue up, with this negativity. Have a shit game? Take five minutes and just don't think about it ever again. I've been chat restricted prob 5-6 times. never used racism or hate speech. all it takes is duo + third salty boi to collude and report together to manipulate the algorithm and trigger a chat ban. I've had actual people who used hate speech and racist words in the game and i was the only one who apparently reported him and...ended up seeing him in several games later that day and apparently nothing happened since he could /all chat.
> [{quoted}](name=Dąddy Chill,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=14cNxy1E,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-04-29T12:43:31.522+0000) > > I've been chat restricted prob 5-6 times. never used racism or hate speech. all it takes is duo + third salty boi to collude and report together to manipulate the algorithm and trigger a chat ban. I've had actual people who used hate speech and racist words in the game and i was the only one who apparently reported him and...ended up seeing him in several games later that day and apparently nothing happened since he could /all chat. Hate speech, racism, etc., will get you escalated to a 14 or perma ban. Chat restrictions are the normal punishment progression for toxicity. Multiple reports have no influence on whether a game is reviewed nor does it affect your likelihood to get punished. Unless you're just super toxic or something in one game, you aren't going to get punished. What typically happens is you build up a toxicity meter, so to speak, and once it's full you are punished. Even if you only get chat logs for one game, contact support and they can pull more games where you we're toxic leading to a punishment, if you want.
: Are you one of those people who sees racism and homophobia in everything? If someone uses the word "autism", but he doesn't hate people, how does it make it a hate speech? > It's still hate-speech regardless of its intention. Are you serious? Really? Regardless of the intention? Well, I guess I hate a lot of people then, including my friends. Hate-speech is a crime more or less. Do you think they should be prosecuted for this "crime'? For using the word "autism" in game. Here is an example of hate-speech for you: Kill all ____ (insert any word).
> [{quoted}](name=GoldsmithSmarty,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IP8bNlzN,comment-id=000c00010000,timestamp=2019-04-28T23:21:37.806+0000) > > Are you one of those people who sees racism and homophobia in everything? If someone uses the word "autism", but he doesn't hate people, how does it make it a hate speech? > > Are you serious? Really? Regardless of the intention? Well, I guess I hate a lot of people then, including my friends. > Hate-speech is a crime more or less. Do you think they should be prosecuted for this "crime'? For using the word "autism" in game. > Here is an example of hate-speech for you: > Kill all ____ (insert any word). It's like using a katana as a kitchen knife to cut vegetables. Just because you aren't using it as a sword like a samurai, doesn't mean it isn't a katana anymore. Just like hate speech is still hate speech even if you are using it just as a joke and not as a neonazi battle cry.
Melven (NA)
: Is using color as an insult considered racism?
> what point do insults become racism? When race becomes part of the insult.
: Report them for offensive language maybe. Hate speech is a different thing. They don't hate certain people. They just use these words as an insult. They don't really think about the exact meaning of those words. Ignorance — yes, hate speech — no!
> [{quoted}](name=GoldsmithSmarty,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IP8bNlzN,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-04-28T02:46:47.841+0000) > > Report them for offensive language maybe. Hate speech is a different thing. They don't hate certain people. They just use these words as an insult. They don't really think about the exact meaning of those words. Ignorance — yes, hate speech — no! Hate-speech is a form of speech. It's still hate-speech regardless of its intention.
: I'm 9-1 in my last 10 games. Still hate that griefers - who I'm benefiting from - aren't punished.
Clearly you aren't enjoying the game as it is. You should either take a break or reframe what's enjoyable for you in the game. As it is, no matter win or lose you are unhappy.
: > There might be more but you get the idea. So to sum it up, you basically are saying you do use, what Riot, considers toxic speech, but only in instances when you are targeted first. You also don't go crazy with it. Is that right? I assume yes. You also said you were aware of Riot's policy that retaliation isn't an excuse. You've summed it up quite well. > What else would I need to look at? Can you give me an example of cursing you would do in-game that would be confusing if it were just read in a chat log? I can give an example. Take the Blue buff Ahri F*** B*** C*** Both me and Ahri know that Rengar has stolen our Buff right in front of our noses, hence the cursing. Would you know that? What if I was just insulting Ahri for failing to take it? Or for ignoring me altogether? Maybe it's not a perfect example, but you get the idea. > •Sometimes I act like a dick [How so? Griefing or insulting people?] As I've said, I never grief or give up. Being a dick to my opponents, taunting them when they are losing. > I agree. That's why you get multiple warnings. Isn't this your third one? I did only get 2 chat restrictions. Nothing else. I would appreciate if they at least sent a message warning me about a possibility of an account ban. Don't you think that it would work better if they notified people? I would have no excuse to come and cry here on these forums. I want to remind something, I got forced out of the game lobby. Only after they banned me, I get those 2 chat logs. > This isn't going to fit your belief about the system, but you need to understand that it doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. You don't have to believe me, but I'm telling you this isn't how the IFS works. I'm sorry. You can go in a game and say, fuck, ass, dick, and so on and not get punished for saying them as long as it wasn't used to flame or be toxic. The system is more than just zero tolerance words or a word list. You can go and do research on how the system works. Then go and do research. I didn't even think about this system until they banned me. I simply thought if you get enough reports they will give you a chat restriction. I was wrong. I have played through 24 chat restricted games, got a notification about my Honor being restored after another 50 or so games, and then, I got banned for the most recent 2 games I had. One of those games I didn't insult anyone, another game I counter-insulted a man ONCE, only once. If system doesn't pick up random swear words, why did they give me a 14 day ban? Actually, Riot has Zero tolerance for some words regardless of the context. C-word is one of those. And boy, I do use it a lot. > Hardly. Actions have consequences, in game and in the real world. Just like in game, the police aren't going to care that someone insulted your mother when you get arrested for assault. Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Ganhdi, but I didn't mean that. Not going over the board, remember? If someone insulted you and it somehow ended up with him calling the police, you did something wrong. And the police would actually care. We do have a court system in place, don't we? Gladly, it's not an automated system. Next time, if someone tries to rob you, don't fight back. I know that this isn't the same, but you are not being fair either. > I'm sure if you ask most of the people responding to you that they also struggle with not being toxic. It's hard. We get that. We also get that it's wrong or at the least against the rules, and try to adjust our behavior. You on the other hand seem to basically be saying that you don't care what the rules are So you ignored everything that I wrote both in my post and in comment section just to say "you don't care what the rules are". If I didn't care, I wouldn't be so pissed about this ban. Get off your high horse please and stop insulting me. I have issues with some rules. I guess I am allowed to disagree with things. You don't need to ban people that have chat problem when you can just chat restrict them or even disable their chat completely. If I don't feed or give up, what is the problem? Why can't you get a chat restriction for 100 games? I barely typed during my chat restricted games, let alone cursed. Even when I was angry with the game, I had no ability to type anything. Chat restriction is very effective. > Edit: For the record: > > "wish it were permanent" > > "Wish kids these days WAS smarter." > > I believe 'were' is correct here since it's a subjunctive mood form of the verb. Thank you for correcting me. I have apologized for this to him. It's not that I don't know about subjunctive mood, I just got a tunnel vision on my wrong assumption that a man made a typo. I wanted to retaliate =) Not an excuse for the ignorance, but English is my 4-th language) Ending note. Shit isn't black and white. At least this situation isn't. If I didn't feel that this ban is undeserved, I wouldn't argue with people so much. That is something that you need to understand. Imagine for a second that I am telling the truth. Now imagine yourself in my place. A bit of compassion rarely harms anyone. Lastly, rules don't worth a damn if they don't make a better society. League is getting more toxic every single year. Whether you agree with me or not, this is the cold fact. Communities survived quite well back in the day without any automated systems in place.
> [{quoted}](name=GoldsmithSmarty,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WhTaMnFt,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-28T01:45:09.243+0000) > You've summed it up quite well. Then you have all the knowledge you need not to get banned again. > I can give an example. > Take the Blue buff Ahri > F > B > C* This shouldn't get you a penalty since you aren't cursing your teammate. As I and others have pointed out over and over the system looks at more than a line by line. It also looks at your chat overall for toxicity. > I did only get 2 chat restrictions **only** implies something minor. Any kind of punishment is significant. I'm not sure if this has been explained but imagine you have virtual rage bar. Anytime you get reported and it's deemed valid, your rage bar fills up some. Once your rage bar completely fills up is when you get punished. So, one punishment represents significant and consistent amounts of toxicity of some sort. Hence, my emphasis on your 'only' 2 chat restrictions. > I would appreciate if they at least sent a message warning me Lol you got two warnings aka chat restrictions. > Don't you think that it would work better if they notified people? No, because you've already been warned and if they sent them out when people were getting close to being punished they would control there toxicity for a while till they got out of the danger zone but never change their behavior. > Then go and do research No, I'm saying that **you** need to do research on how the system works if you don't want to accept how we are telling you it operates. I've read post by Riot behavioral team, watched presentations they've given, and read what other badged members of the forums know. Does that make me an expert? Hardly. But my information is more than anecdotal. > If system doesn't pick up random swear words, why did they give me a 14 day ban? Because according to Riot's definition of the word, you were toxic, and since you had already been on a 10 and then 20 game chat restriction, the next step was a 14 ban. Additionally, back to the rage bar example, since you had already been punished twice you were basically still full and on the edge of another punishment. AGAIN, if you post your chat logs, we could tell you more specifically what it was that you said that was particularly bad. > Riot has Zero tolerance for some words regardless of the context. Indeed. There are ZT words, phrases and so on. To be honest I'm not sure I agree with some people assessment that the c-word is a zt word. I say this because ZT words usually get you escalated to a much higher punishment immediately. So, if you have been using them, I don't see how you would have just been slowly stepping up the ladder, so to speak. I don't know that for sure though. > but I didn't mean that Well, you did say I would possibly hit someone in real life for an insult and I told you no I wouldn't. > So you ignored everything that I wrote both in my post and in comment section No I didn't. You have many people that have more knowledge on this trying to advise you what you did wrong to avoid getting the permaban. Instead of offering your chat logs and heeding advice, you have argued every step of the way. So that tells me you A. know what you did was wrong but choose to continue to do it anyway or B. just have no regard for the rules and don't care to learn. > Why can't you get a chat restriction for 100 games? This is a complicated question with the answer having to do with how Riot views and wants to handle toxicity. Regardless, it's not an option. > Imagine for a second that I am telling the truth. For the most part I don't think you are lying. However, I think you are being toxic in your games. You've said repeatedly you counter-insulted. That's code for you were toxic. Doesn't matter why you were. It matters that you were. Again you won't post your chat logs for us to see which makes you look sorta guilty. > A bit of compassion rarely harms anyone. I do have compassion. That's why I'm still arguing with you about this, what, 5 days in now because I would rather you not get permabanned over stupid toxicity. > Lastly, rules don't worth a damn if they don't make a better society. This is part of Riot's behavioral philosophy or it was. Which is why they do things the way they do. If you are interested, I'll post links for some presentations they did that delve into this. > League is getting more toxic every single year. Whether you agree with me or not, this is the cold fact. Lol that's the opposite of facts. That's completely subjective. Personally I think it's gotten better. Granted it may be just me being less toxic as I've gotten older so it creates less toxicity in my games. Regardless, it's anecdotal for both of us. By Riots numbers it's gotten better. Which you can agree with or not.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hazy Shade,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1gFdVTbA,comment-id=00080000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-27T09:46:41.510+0000) > > Everyone sees what you are trying to say. You perform poorly and get flamed for it. You defend yourself and get banned. Therefore you were banned for playing poorly. > _Sidenote: I'm sure this is some kind of logical fallacy I just don't know which. _ > > Except you control how you respond to the flame. Instead of verbally defending yourself, you can defend yourself by muting/ignoring. Therefore, by your logic, you **chose** to get banned because you chose verbal defense over mute/ignore defense. Perhaps, but if I ignore someone who is wasting time that could be used by performing to make up for my performing poorly on their side... Then they begin to tilt even further because they aren't getting a response from me. either way, I'm doing nothing wrong by playing badly... It's unintentional, and I find it very disrespectful to tell me that I am intentionally feeding.
> Then they begin to tilt even further because they aren't getting a response from me. They will tilt regardless. > I'm doing nothing wrong by playing badly As long as it's not intentional, no you aren't. No one has implied otherwise. > I find it very disrespectful to tell me that I am intentionally feeding It is disrespectful. That's why you should mute/ignore them and then report them at the end of the game so they get a ban and not you.
: I have nothing further to say to you. You refuse to see what my objectives are, and insist only on following the rules. I'm simply suggesting that this being a game, and my having being in a low capacity to win should not be hindered by my reaction to a toxic person. I may have been rude, but that's subjective. I was not censored, which essentially is fair game. I'm no longer interested in your posts Aero. But thank you for not raging on me and flaming.
Everyone sees what you are trying to say. You perform poorly and get flamed for it. You defend yourself and get banned. Therefore you were banned for playing poorly. _Sidenote: I'm sure this is some kind of logical fallacy I just don't know which. _ Except you control how you respond to the flame. Instead of verbally defending yourself, you can defend yourself by muting/ignoring. Therefore, by your logic, you **chose** to get banned because you chose verbal defense over mute/ignore defense.
Chokkk (NA)
: How is this perm worthy?
Look at what you typed and then look at this: Game 1 Pre-Game Chokkk: vayne jax ban pls Chokkk: karth In-Game Chokkk: literally group on us sivir we can win Chokkk: we chain cc vayne ez win Chokkk: we can chain her This is what you should have said out of that chat log. Everything else was some form of negative, flaming, giving up, etc.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hazy Shade,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1gFdVTbA,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-27T06:35:53.472+0000) > > No. That's not what Riot does no matter how you try to spin it to seem that way. > > Yes. No one wants to deal with toxicity. > > To suggest plays, make mia/return calls, be supportive, or other things that can't be conveyed via pings. It does not include things that are toxic, e.g., telling your teammate they are bad, complaining about kda, complaining about builds, complaining about not getting ganks, complaining about not getting leash, demanding to know why someone did 'x', and so on. Exceptions include: **NONE** > > Now you may say that your teammate said something rude to you. My response is see the exception clause above for reasons to be toxic. > > Do you disagree with this? Email Riot. Until you convince them to change, it is the rules. I do disagree with this, and I won't be emailing riot. I suspect you think I'm 80 years old at this point. This is a public forum, in the category of player behaviors. So i'm speaking to the public in search of a general understanding of what's going on here. nobody has yet to understand my points. You are all interested only in upholding rules, which I propose are far too strict.
> [{quoted}](name=Thr33Zer0Thr33,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1gFdVTbA,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-04-27T07:22:07.532+0000) > > I do disagree with this, and I won't be emailing riot. I suspect you think I'm 80 years old at this point. Doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not it's the rules. > This is a public forum, in the category of player behaviors. So i'm speaking to the public in search of a general understanding of what's going on here. What else is going on besides these two things? 1. You dislike the rules about toxicity and want to be able to retaliate without punishment. 2. Well, that's it really. > nobody has yet to understand my points. You are all interested only in upholding rules, which I propose are far too strict. We understand your point, I believe, we just don't agree with it.
BowWowzer (OCE)
: Ranked is worse than norms FYI
To answer your title, to me they aren't. Norms are the worst thing ever because no one wants to ever finish the game. Makes me wanna claw my eyes out. > Yet its okay to penalized someone over 1 game in chat log. I'm sure you have strong feelings about this but this doesn't actually happen unless someone uses hate speech, racism, etc. > I check the match history of everyone I report Don't do this to yourself. You are literally setting yourself up to be stressed out. Worst way to play the game because you are mentally going in, every time you queue up, with this negativity. Have a shit game? Take five minutes and just don't think about it ever again.
Hotarµ (NA)
: Is that a real command? Huh, I actually didn't know about that one. Either way, OP said they wanted no chat, just pings :p ######_so you best be raising that white flag, boy_
{{summoner:11}} oof I've been hit
: I was banned, and now i'm restricted for 24 games?!
> Is it really okay to ban people for being bad? No. That's not what Riot does no matter how you try to spin it to seem that way. > or retaliating against toxic players with words? Yes. No one wants to deal with toxicity. > why do we even have a chat? To suggest plays, make mia/return calls, be supportive, or other things that can't be conveyed via pings. It does not include things that are toxic, e.g., telling your teammate they are bad, complaining about kda, complaining about builds, complaining about not getting ganks, complaining about not getting leash, demanding to know why someone did 'x', and so on. Exceptions include: **NONE** Now you may say that your teammate said something rude to you. My response is see the exception clause above for reasons to be toxic. Do you disagree with this? Email Riot. Until you convince them to change, it is the rules.
Hotarµ (NA)
: You can use the "/mute all" command at the start of each match, disable all chat, and/or move your chat box off the screen.
I'll take your > /mute all and raise you a > /fullmute all Get rid of the chat AND pings lol.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hazy Shade,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=nlXaX3p6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-27T01:37:23.073+0000) > > Both are wrong. You should have ignored them and kept playing the match. Imagine getting constantly told you're not doing anything good you could mute but still its not going to feel nice with the idea all your teammates hate you
I don't need to imagine. Everyone has probably been there at some point. I've literally gotten to the point where if I do something dumb or even just anything remotely happens that seems like it could be blamed on me I just /fullmute all. If we keep losing, then I keep it all muted. If things start looking up I'll /fullmute all again to undo it.
ionst0rm (NA)
: Trolls and heavy feeders
Sidenote: as interesting as your data is, you should keep in mind that you, the data recorder, are also in the 'experiment' which is going to have an effect on the results.
: Am I The Bad One?
Both are wrong. You should have ignored them and kept playing the match. Once it was over report them and move on. That way it would have only been them in the wrong.
: yeah sorry about that :/
Don't be sorry to me lol. I'm just worried you are doing yourself more harm by admitting to account sharing/using that as an excuse.
: I'm sorry, I got banned.
The forum can't get you unbanned. If it's a perma, at this point you're probably SOL, but you can always try and submit a ticket. That said, I'm not sure how serious account sharing is but using that as a defence seems like a really really bad idea.
: so toxic.
The title pretty much sums it up.
: It's because they can't express frustration by flaming, so they resort to inting/trolling
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FB3R4wAP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-24T03:40:32.456+0000) > > It's because they can't express frustration by flaming, so they resort to inting/trolling I know right? If people could flame it would take care of the running around part since they'd all be standing in one spot flaming each other lol.
: Riots ban and punishment priorities.
What is it exactly you're hoping to get out of this post? Riot has done research into verbal toxicity that shows players overall enjoyment of the game is lowered when someone is being toxic. They also have behavioral profiles on every single player and they track every single game. Toxicity spills over into subsequent games. It also tends to lead to actual griefing. And at what point has flaming anyone ever made them play better? Which is going to be more likely to help: * Holy shit you're trash. Can you please stop fucking feeding your brains out? or * Yikes, hang in there. Avoid dying if you can. I'm pretty strong and will try to roam. edit: also what trulybland said
: i'm straight up done with this game
Sorry you feel that way. Maybe taking a break from the game will be good for you. Possibly come back further on down the line. Figure out ways to avoid being toxic first though. Gl
: My friend, I am tired of saying that I don't go around insulting players in game. I do curse a lot though. System will ban me for using these words regardless of me directing them at someone. How would they know the context? If you only look at My chat history, how would you know if I used the C-word to insult someone or I just cursed at some game stuff? It is impossible. I will repeat myself, account ban is way too harsh of a punishment for someone who very rarely "retaliates" with a swear word. No racisms, no hate speech, no over-the-board stuff. People who call me brain-dead in game chat will never receive a ban. Those who flame the team will also slip through. That's why toxicity is at its highest, and the game morale is at its lowest. People give up immediately. I was so infuriated by this ban because in those chat logs provided buy riot (2 games only) I wasn't really doing anything. First game I called a man, who insulted me, a C-word once and that was it. Second game I didn't say a bad word. In those 40 min of gameplay I said 2 swear words regarding some game mechanics or a champion. No player had issue with me. My team started flaming me after 30 min mark saying that I'm a bad tank Urgot and I don't know how to itemize or play. They reported me and system picked up those 2 swear words. (I think in laning phase I called opposing Illaoi (character) a broken bitch, in local chat only.) > The point of posting your ban is to get feedback or in the case of a mistake from the IFS, generate enough fervor to attract Riot. It is not the point of my post. I don't care whether anyone here believes me or not. Riot doesn't visit these forums and I don't want to sit here arguing with every man or miss about this ban. In my post, I am not begging people or riot to pardon me. I simply asked if there is a way to contact them. Now, I don't even care anyone, one day is enough time to relax. > Also, I may be mistaken on this, but the use of curse words isn't bannable as long as you aren't directing them at another player. That is exactly my point, the system is flawed. If you occasionally use bad words and someone reports you for some reason, system will pick them up regardless of context. Easy to troll actually. You see someone swearing in chat because he had his Blue buff stolen? Report them. > ...retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior...regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions I know this rule. But we all know it's bullshit. We don't live in a fantasy world. I bet if someone insults you in the real world you will retaliate immediately, maybe throw a punch even. Everyone and their dog becomes a great psychologist judging other person. When they are faced with the same situation, they suddenly find it a bit harder than expected. Chat restriction is a perfect punishment for simple basic insults. For hate speech and racism and other horrible stuff, — permanent ban.
> I don't go around insulting players in game. Ok but... that doesn't fit what you have been saying. * I retaliate with a good ol' C-word, or bitch, or asshole * I indeed use this word to counter insult "people". * Sometimes I act like a dick [How so? Griefing or insulting people?] * answers with moderate swear words to insults * I never go over the board There might be more but you get the idea. So to sum it up, you basically are saying you do use, what Riot, considers toxic speech, but only in instances when you are targeted first. You also don't go crazy with it. Is that right? I assume yes. You also said you were aware of Riot's policy that retalition **isn't** an excuse. > If you only look at My chat history, how would you know if I used the C-word to insult someone or I just cursed at some game stuff? What else would I need to look at? Can you give me an example of cursing you would do in-game that would be confusing if it were just read in a chat log? > account ban is way too harsh of a punishment I agree. That's why you get multiple warnings. Isn't this your third one? > someone reports you for some reason, system will pick them up regardless of context This isn't going to fit your belief about the system, but you need to understand that it doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. You don't have to believe me, but I'm telling you this isn't how the IFS works. I'm sorry. You can go in a game and say, fuck, ass, dick, and so on and not get punished for saying them as long as it wasn't used to flame or be toxic. The system is more than just zero tolerance words or a word list. You can go and do research on how the system works. > I know this rule. But we all know it's bullshit It makes complete sense to me. > I bet if someone insults you in the real world you will retaliate immediately, maybe throw a punch even Hardly. Actions have consequences, in game and in the real world. Just like in game, the police aren't going to care that someone insulted your mother when you get arrested for assault. > Everyone and their dog becomes a great psychologist judging other person. When they are faced with the same situation, they suddenly find it a bit harder than expected. I'm sure if you ask most of the people responding to you that they also struggle with not being toxic. It's hard. We get that. We also get that it's wrong or at the least against the rules, and try to adjust our behavior. You on the other hand seem to basically be saying that you don't care what the rules are. > I don't really need to hide anything Then post your chat logs. --- Edit: For the record: "wish it were permanent" "Wish kids these days WAS smarter." I believe 'were' is correct here since it's a subjunctive mood form of the verb.
Okagemi (NA)
: Can the Bot detect these things?
Lol don't do this to yourself. You had a shit game. You have to let it go. Don't let it eat you up to the point you start researching the other player. Maybe he's a troll, maybe he had a bad game, maybe he's tilted. Who knows. Don't keep rehashing it though. In one of your games down the line your gonna get that Pyke or their equivalent on the other team. It'll be an easy win for you. Ha I know it's easier said than done, but don't let it get you done. Stand up, do some jumping jacks, go get some water or anything to pull yourself out of the game to reset.
Lan Fan (EUW)
: You're low gold, I doubt that you even know why that Evelynn build is troll :3
> [{quoted}](name=Destello Veloz,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=T5Z5WNJN,comment-id=0000000000030000,timestamp=2019-04-23T14:06:40.629+0000) > > You're low gold, I doubt that you even know why that Evelynn build is troll :3 Ha ha true but I can still see you 'int' about as often as he does. Unless your 0/6/0 nunu was a new diamond strategy or the 2/14 something Ryze.
: i did. but i didnt int. actions > words. idk why everyone is such a nazi. he was greifing in game. yes i REALLY WISH I HAD JUST NOT SAID ANYTHING. i couldnt sleep. wanted to play some league. got upset. im really regretful man. i really really wish i had disabled my chat for my own good im just r%%%%%ed and didnt know how. i am very sad and just want another chance
> [{quoted}](name=GlitchedSea,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hzZuvjXZ,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-23T14:35:32.595+0000) > > i did. but i didnt int. actions > words. idk why everyone is such a nazi. he was greifing in game. yes i REALLY WISH I HAD JUST NOT SAID ANYTHING. i couldnt sleep. wanted to play some league. got upset. im really regretful man. i really really wish i had disabled my chat for my own good im just r%%%%%ed and didnt know how. i am very sad and just want another chance I hear that mentality a lot but it's not words versus actions. Lol they coexist.
: Got my 3rd account perma banned and uninstalled league of legends
Dude/dudette lol, you are out of control. Like I feel bad for you since you seem upset but Jesus, you we're literally toxic from the minute the queue popped. You need to learn meditation or something. _WHY WAS I PUNISHED WHEN THE OTHER PERSON WAS WORSE OR STARTED IT! Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game.If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on._ [IFS FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-)
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Hazy Shade

Level 161 (NA)
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