rujitra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Headhunterkiller,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7KfH6ZaE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-26T05:10:12.613+0000) > > So by not being allowed to be toxic you increase toxicity? > > What about the vast number of reports being made only by toxic players? > > I wasn't toxic. The mod themself stated so. I was arguing. That is the stated reason for the ban. It doesn't matter that I farmed tiny amounts of honor here and there across the 80% of games where there's always people that don't honor, or that I have clearly made huge changes to my chat. Not even a single curse. > > The only people that reported me in the game where I was 'toxic' were people literally shouting "REPORT" 'and' "REPORTED" in all chat.. Where I chose to use a single word, "toxic". Which isn't even arguing, isn't targetted to anyone and is not an insult. I would actually like to see how the reports unfolded in that match and from who but we know how Riot is about sharing information like that with people that aren't Riot. > > I can definitely say that if my report actually depended on my own actions then I, and other's, would keep our mouths shut so that something actually happens. It would not just become a report fest where we hope everyone gets screwed over AND triggered. > > Also your reasoning is flawed. You might think that there is a system that does the reporting itself but it doesn't. As long as you aren't reported you can do ANYTHING. If you weren't reported *enough* you can still do 'almost' anything aside from the classic death threat, etc. Actual crimes that only get moderated after a *manual review*. > > I strongly believe that my implementation would have nothing but a positive effect. It would dispel the myth that Riot just has a token system which can target anyone or that they're just in it for the money. > > Just like the mod said. If you aren't sure "what the line is", then don't use chat at all. Even if it's literally just asking your team to build one item that would win the game. Because that is arguing. Arguing is toxic, and other people violating the rules doesn't make it okay for you to do so. You broke the rules, you were warned, you kept breaking the rules, that's why you're punished. You're trying to find some way to game the system now instead of accepting responsibility for your actions. Grow up.
Aw man that's awfully unproductive. Maybe next time we could be more positive! It really made me sad that I didn't improve fast enough for riot but thankfully they said in the future I can make improvements! I have to learn to ask for a Bork very nicely and in a way that isn't inflammatory. I just hope that doesn't trigger people either... (It still does funnily enough). So how about we stop with this culture of overzealous reporting. People need to be encouraged to do it in a healthier manner either way! I think it makes both parties much angrier in the end as well as offering no solutions. I don't think people have much faith in Riot these days and a lot of people have a shared theme. Perhaps we should Keep Trying! I know I will... On my banned account. Again.. Thanks for the GREAT advice my friend!
: > [{quoted}](name=Headhunterkiller,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7KfH6ZaE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-26T00:17:50.317+0000) > > I think it would help if they would at least remove reports from clearly toxic players though. This could be a huge step in the right direction. I believe the more reports/bans you receive the less your reports "weights", actually. Unfortunately, if you get permabanned, that doesn't really transfer to your new account...
I would like the source for this. Especially how much it matters. This still doesn't solve the problem of 'griefers' at all.
rujitra (NA)
: Have you heard of laws that prohibit arrest or charging of someone who, in good faith, calls police or an ambulance when someone needs one? Even if they're doing drugs openly when the police arrive. Even if they're drinking underage. Your proposal would decrease reporting, decrease punishment, and increase toxicity. You didn't get punished because a toxic player reported you. You got punished because you were continually toxic after your final warning.
This isn't a life or death situation. This is an internet video game where the only communication is 'text-chat'. Where you can mute each other. (Toxic people reporting over text-chat that is filtered is extremely toxic and encourages people to both get vindictive and to grief). It turns all of us into monsters. It's a video game. If someone is beating you up and you hit them back in self defense are the cops still supposed to lock you up? Because in certain cases defending an argument could be important.. Like building a proper item.
rujitra (NA)
: Have you heard of laws that prohibit arrest or charging of someone who, in good faith, calls police or an ambulance when someone needs one? Even if they're doing drugs openly when the police arrive. Even if they're drinking underage. Your proposal would decrease reporting, decrease punishment, and increase toxicity. You didn't get punished because a toxic player reported you. You got punished because you were continually toxic after your final warning.
So by not being allowed to be toxic you increase toxicity? What about the vast number of reports being made only by toxic players? I wasn't toxic. The mod themself stated so. I was arguing. That is the stated reason for the ban. It doesn't matter that I farmed tiny amounts of honor here and there across the 80% of games where there's always people that don't honor, or that I have clearly made huge changes to my chat. Not even a single curse. The only people that reported me in the game where I was 'toxic' were people literally shouting "REPORT" 'and' "REPORTED" in all chat.. Where I chose to use a single word, "toxic". Which isn't even arguing, isn't targetted to anyone and is not an insult. I would actually like to see how the reports unfolded in that match and from who but we know how Riot is about sharing information like that with people that aren't Riot. I can definitely say that if my report actually depended on my own actions then I, and other's, would keep our mouths shut so that something actually happens. It would not just become a report fest where we hope everyone gets screwed over AND triggered. Also your reasoning is flawed. You might think that there is a system that does the reporting itself but it doesn't. As long as you aren't reported you can do ANYTHING. If you weren't reported *enough* you can still do 'almost' anything aside from the classic death threat, etc. Actual crimes that only get moderated after a *manual review*. I strongly believe that my implementation would have nothing but a positive effect. It would dispel the myth that Riot just has a token system which can target anyone or that they're just in it for the money. Just like the mod said. If you aren't sure "what the line is", then don't use chat at all. Even if it's literally just asking your team to build one item that would win the game. Because that is arguing.
: I 'like' to think I'm pretty reasonable so acting thin skinned isn't an action I'm comfortable with. Always good to pursue a conversation.
Well aside from the obvious when someone is being antagonistic it is always a good time to end a conversation when you don't think it will go anywhere after a point. If you think it might produce a positive it might be worth investigating. In our example, where we kind-of got off on the wrong foot, I thought you might've been a troll. The internet is a funny place after-all. Your next comment changed that opinion a bit so I continued.
: > [{quoted}](name=Headhunterkiller,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7KfH6ZaE,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-26T01:07:00.229+0000) > > You assume a lot of things. This system could be limited to reviewed cases for now and hopefully extended into an automated feature. There are some obvious phrases and words that would easily explain a situation. > > A simple IP ban doesn't work when someone can use a vpn. Especially on someone who's half motivated with a reward such as a griefer. > > To be honest I'm surprised myself that they don't just remove all chat before a permanent ban or at least some other methods. I've changed my habits tremendously on my journey due to the toxic fest only to be met with such an abrupt message after 3 short cases when I've had an account since League's earliest days. Heck, even farming for honor is tough. I can totally imagine people not wanting to honor because of salt over the system. I'd hate to reiterate a previous point but it does seem more like this system is for show and that Riot cares more about money than the players by putting up a facade. I assume a lot of things because you don't elaborate your thoughts. Need more detail if I want to continue the conversation, don't I? (pretty fun, actually) | They could also use part of the script for the already existing behavior AI. Didn't think that far into it, but you have a very valid point here. +1 agree, I guess? lol
I 'like' to think I'm pretty reasonable so acting thin skinned isn't an action I'm comfortable with. Always good to pursue a conversation.
: > [{quoted}](name=Headhunterkiller,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7KfH6ZaE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-26T00:41:19.008+0000) > > Perhaps they could include a system where consistently bad players are locked into AI or unranked only games for a few matches to get-up-to-speed, or to get them to recognize their actions. It should at least 'slow down' some of the low elo shenanigans and give others a break. I remember playing hundreds of ranked matches back in the day only to have a consistent theme of thrown matches. It is brutal. Now that there is a brilliant idea. Like it would drastically clean up players behavior myself included (I'm not longer accepting players who can't play safe and will fully admit to it). Put one tricks with other one tricks. Those who can't cs per the average of that elo are dumped down into unranked. Constant feeding regardless of matchups get knocked down. Bottom line even though that's a million dollar idea, that effects riots income as players are more likely to quit the game if they can't play ranked and feed than they are to be in ranked and be in games they shouldn't be in. Those of us who are in the top 20% of players see this relentlessly. Riot won't address this. They are more prone in saying "These are our terms of service". Would be more grateful if they just had the balls to say "we don't care about players who get endlessly screwed, we care about the money". At that point I could at least respect the honesty. From a veterans who's put my ass on the line I know a little something about respect and courage. Maybe one will go rogue and admit it to the rest of us.
Yeah they should be able to determine a rough average where a player is just bringing their team down. Just slow down their ranked matches so the throws get thinned out.
: > [{quoted}](name=Headhunterkiller,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7KfH6ZaE,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-26T00:53:31.705+0000) > > Never said that toxic players should permanently be disallowed from reporting. Just from the match where they offendended. > > It would teach the lesson that those that don't throw mud back are rewarded in the end. Instead it just feels like Riot is just implementing their system for show. People are rewarded for their toxicity if they can get someone banned, even though they could've influenced that persons actions. > > For situations such as those that go out to grief and 'collect bans' this would directly deal with those individuals. Otherwise I don't think 'griefers' have much invested in this game unlike those they can possibly get banned. You never said that last part, either. And how would Riot's AI even be able to determine who was being toxic and "throwing mud back" to administer the No-Reporting Punishment? Especially after only one of thousands of games going on at any given time. 100% chance of overloading their systems, so nothing like this would ever exist in the first place. And for situations where greifers go out and collect bans, a simple IP ban would be enough to deal with most, since no one wants to get a new router every time they get banned from a game. ---------------------------------------------------- All-in all, I think if you wanted to invent a way of making toxic players suddenly not be toxic, just remove all chat from the account and start tackling LeaverBuster-esque things on their account. Want to get a champion? Wait three days. Want to play a game? Nope, not this month. Want to troll people? Immediately IP banned. (The last part isn't part of the opinion, just a new take on how something like what you are recommending could be done.)
You assume a lot of things. This system could be limited to reviewed cases for now and hopefully extended into an automated feature. There are some obvious phrases and words that would easily explain a situation. A simple IP ban doesn't work when someone can use a vpn. Especially on someone who's half motivated with a reward such as a griefer. To be honest I'm surprised myself that they don't just remove all chat before a permanent ban or at least some other methods. I've changed my habits tremendously on my journey due to the toxic fest only to be met with such an abrupt message after 3 short cases when I've had an account since League's earliest days. Heck, even farming for honor is tough. I can totally imagine people not wanting to honor because of salt over the system. I'd hate to reiterate a previous point but it does seem more like this system is for show and that Riot cares more about money than the players by putting up a facade.
: > [{quoted}](name=Headhunterkiller,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7KfH6ZaE,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-26T00:42:35.745+0000) > > No I would be completely fine with it. It would actually encourage people to further distance themselves from being toxic and it would reward people for not getting tilted. What happens when the usually toxic players aren't being toxic for that game and the other player is? Wouldn't it make their report invalidated because they w e r e toxic before? What punishment could be dished out if noone can report it? Because I'm almost completely sure everyone has been tilted before.
Never said that toxic players should permanently be disallowed from reporting. Just from the match where they offended. It would teach the lesson that those that don't throw mud back are rewarded in the end. Instead it just feels like Riot is just implementing their system for show. People are rewarded for their toxicity if they can get someone banned, even though they could've influenced that persons actions. For situations such as those that go out to grief and 'collect bans' this would directly deal with those individuals. Otherwise I don't think 'griefers' have much invested in this game unlike those they can possibly get banned. Like in my case what's the point if both I and the other person is banned when the other person could have been on an alt or an account they didn't spend a dime on?
: > [{quoted}](name=Headhunterkiller,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7KfH6ZaE,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-26T00:31:04.996+0000) > > I wanted to edit it to make it better. It just made another post entirely. I deleted the other post. Not sure if I should reply to you, might take Riot's advice on this one. Could've just re-edited it, but okay. I'll accept your claim to "If you read my" (what I assume is) "rant, you'd know" cliche But, for your question, I'd include the toxic player or players reports. They are players, aren't they? What I, however, want to know is: What do _you_ think about riot excluding reports from toxic players? Now since I've went and read your post, I'll say this: "Now I hope you believe me that I wasn't the most toxic in the match." But, I assume you reported them as well, so, would your reports be invalidated because you were toxic as well? That would make you un-punishable, as well as the other toxic players, but, the toxicity in the game would, because of things like that, eventually also increase due to lack of punishment. For good measure, I'll ask again: What do _you_ think about riot excluding reports from toxic players?
Actually I would be completely fine with it. It would actually encourage people to further distance themselves from being toxic and it would reward people for not getting tilted. Instead of the mere action of reporting being valued above all else. Which can be abused by those that are toxic. It would kind-of suck in that case but it also isn't a certainty I would act the same way under such a system. At the least nobody would be perma-banned over it.
: Riot won't do anything about it. Their programmers are rather liberal and only care about money. Stating they are liberal does not go against the 4 criteria context of discussing politics per your own terms of service riot so this will stay up. Matchmaking is broken. They refuse to acknowledge lower elo games. Mass bans/restrictions for those players who are fed up with the system so they start getting angry while riot is reactive not proactive. Not a great way for a company that is "family oriented". They create their own toxic environment then blame the players. Who wouldn't be upset if they are spending 15-40 minutes per game where nothing they did that game matters. Then multiply that number exponentially for all the games others have caused. Maybe riot should come out with a system where if a player hard feeds, can't cs compared to the rest of the players in the game have them lose all lp for the match instead of other 4 players. That would surely fix aggro from players of not being penalized for the faulted matchmaking system of putting players in games they shouldn't be in in the first place.
Perhaps they could include a system where consistently bad players are locked into AI or unranked only games for a few matches to get-up-to-speed, or to get them to recognize their actions. It should at least 'slow down' some of the low elo shenanigans and give others a break. I remember playing hundreds of ranked matches back in the day only to have a consistent theme of thrown matches. It is brutal.
: > [{quoted}](name=Headhunterkiller,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7KfH6ZaE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-26T00:28:33.487+0000) > > If you read my post you would know that this was meant as advice because I already accepted my account as gone. > > > What do you think about Riot excluding reports from toxic players? did you just reply to your own post, delete it, and then question it?{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
I wanted to edit it to make it better. It just made another post entirely. I deleted the other post. Not sure if I should reply to you, might take Riot's advice on this one.
: ***
If you read my post you would know that this was meant as advice because I already accepted my account as gone. What do you think about Riot excluding reports from toxic players?
: yeah its not a contest where the most toxic guy in chat gets banned if you don't wanna get banned imagine you're talking to first graders even if one tells you to eat a dick and that you look like a r%%%%% you won't tell him he's an asshole, yeah?
I appreciate the advice. It's just what gets me is that the mod won't tell you what you can and can't say and then says that if you aren't sure you shouldn't use it at all. It really makes the future of league look depressing. Chat is a way for people to relay important information. Such as building a game winning item. It feels like a huge part of the game has been robbed when you're encouraged not to cooperate. I definitely don't think I'm getting this account back though lol. It just sucks I'm not entirely sure why other than I used chat at a time when people were already grumpy. I think it would help if they would at least remove reports from clearly toxic players though. This could be a huge step in the right direction.
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Headhunterkiller

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