: > Rioters should not willfully lie to the playerbase and should be held accountable. Agree. > lie on Twitter that it is a "western phenomenon" I said that her frustration is a western phenomenon. She is banned 60% more often in NA than her global average. Ban rate is a readily available statistic that we believe can be correlated to frustration. I also said on Twitter that Riven is a strong champion right now. Somehow that didn't make this post. There are good justifications to be made for nerfing Riven. I personally think some are pretty compelling. Good arguments can be constructed to nerf many things, however, and we want to be sure we're applying consistent measures in our approach to balance. I think we've not been great at this over the years, really. Some champion will always be the strongest one that does not get nerfed in a patch. This patch Riven's pretty darn close to that. If she picks up any more, she's probably due, but we don't think she's crossing that line right now. For those that are actually seeking a discussion, what is the criteria we should be using to justify a nerf to Riven this patch that we'd be 100% happy with applying to champions in the future (NOT the past, as I've already stated we haven't been consistent)?
If a champion with a skillcap as high as Riven's is achieving widespread success, either her mains are many in number or her mains are absolutely crushing it because people who are much worse at Riven are also achieving success. Either way, that's not good.
: Old league lore was bad, like really bad.
I could do the same thing with new lore by cherry picking the worst bits and ignoring all context, you know.
: Just you wait...
Ooh, is Sona 2 lesbians and the Etwahl spirit now?
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shyvana Bct,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E6sm7oxA,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-06T20:57:23.428+0000) > > So who wrote the new Shyvana lore? Whats the deal with the down grade? Reading any of the top 3 post in hot about it can detail it. What's the motive of removing her iconic father? I honestly dont think that Odin was a part of that Shyvanna change but I can tell you that Scathlocke told us that it was actually an editorial thing.. He also told me that they will explore dragons in runeterra! I sneaked in a question about ice drakes and he said it may be possible.. So I understand your frustration but remember youll probably get more dragon lore in the future :)
A link to the Scathlocke comment, please?
Riot Jag (NA)
: Teemo changes temporarily on PBE for early feedback
My immediate first thought is that the blinded melee people constantly turning around would make it very annoying for Cass players to figure out if someone is going to get stunned by her ult or not.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellioning,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sHGIBEhv,comment-id=000600020001,timestamp=2019-02-19T20:37:16.905+0000) > > Instead, you're trying to make other, completely different 2-dimensional tropes. Specifically [these](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulStupid) [two](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightTemplar)? Edit: I was discussing it with a friend and he told me something that makes a lot of sense. What if Kayle's biggest flaw isn't that she's evil, but that she has a volatile temper? This would further contrast the two, with Morgana being the calm defensive one and Kayle being the fiery aggressive one.
Basically, though I'd replace the first with My Country, Right or Wrong.
: Darth Vader is unquestionably the villain for much of the story, but he's not the evil mastermind he was originally shown as. He did some utterly abhorrent things, for selfish and spiteful reasons... and yet, he is considered redeemed "in the eyes of the Force" or whatever, by the end. It's far safer to assign the terms "hero/villain" or "protagonist/antagonist" to stories. We are building stories here, not moral judgements designed to tell people how to live their lives, in the real world. Basically, if ANY character wakes up in the morning and thinks "What's the most evil thing I can do today?" then that's a hard pass from me, friends.
There's more to evil than just Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain Evil, you know. Eve doesn't think 'I'm going to kill people BECAUSE I'M EVIL MWAHAHA', she thinks 'I'm going to kill people because I enjoy it and I need to feed'. That doesn't make her any less evil.
: Hard disagree. He was the original villain. He was the ultimate evil guy. Then his story developed over two sequel movies, where he ultimately tried to atone for what he had done. Then loads more stories built out the depth. Then the prequels, etc etc. So. Was Darth Vader good or evil? Discuss.
Evil. The fact he had sympathetic backstory and he eventually redeemed himself does nothing to change the fact he helped prop up the Emperor's reign of terror and killed many resistance members. Like, he killed a bunch of 'younglings', dude. Please tell me you're not trying to 'moral ambiguity' someone who killed kids.
: Because "good" and "evil" are relative, and we're not trying to create those kinds of 2-dimensional tropes anymore.
Instead, you're trying to make other, completely different 2-dimensional tropes.
: Also, just because people in Runeterra believe something, doesn't mean it's true...
Oh, goodie, we're going with this again.
: As we've said many times - "good" and "evil" are relative, and we're not aiming for such 2-dimensional tropes anymore.
Are you a first year philosophy student or something? 'Good' is relative, yes, but that doesn't mean 'everyone is an asshole!'
: Was Darth Vader good or evil? Discuss.
If you're going for moral ambiguity, Darth Vader is one of the worst people you could have gone with. He's evil. Everyone thinks he's evil besides a bunch of idiots who prefer aesthetics to actual morality.
Leetri (EUW)
: I've seen a lot of people arguing that Kayle should be ugly because "people aren't attractive for no reason" and how Kayle has never been attractive.
Kayle has always been attractive. What she hasn't been is 'sexy'.
: Everyone suddenly "loves" the old Kayle, meanwhile she is one of the top 4 least played champions.
If you created every single new champion and revamped every single old champion to be a hot person in a skimpy outfit, everyone that has no interest in hot people in skimpy outfits have no reason to stay. Yeah, they're a minority, but they're still an extant group.
Sobx (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellioning,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=KeYTujMn,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2019-02-19T01:18:00.747+0000) > > It's the dumb thigh armor that REALLY pushes it over the top for me. Like, the bodysuit, I dislike, but she's not the first champion to wear it. But the thigh armor makes it really obvious that [yaddayaddayada] Wtf are you even talking about? Like, literally, draw a circle which part of that "thigh armor" is so terribly sexualized in a way never seen before not only "in the game", but LITERALLY on the previous (current) Kayle model. https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ffixlkmb.jpg%5B%2FIMG%5D&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=425 https://how2play.pl/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/kayle.jpg https://s3.amazonaws.com/leaguesales/images/imgs/000/001/651/original/unmasked-kayle-02.png?1467175747 https://dotesports-media.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/11090919/d2b6d66a-ccb5-4a8f-9081-20190e059d3b.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yC7bPMJ6K5s/maxresdefault.jpg https://s3.amazonaws.com/leaguesales/images/imgs/000/001/062/original/aether-wing-kayle-01.png?1467054935 Also EVEN IF YOU WERE RIGHT -but you're not- who the hell would take their time to stare at the zoomed in characted in the game to even HONESTLY CARE about something like that?
That's a skin, for the record. And the thigh armor goes up to her butt and accents it in a way that, at model scale, is designed to make her hips look wider.
Terozu (NA)
: So since Kayle becomes unmasked in game by default. Can unmasked become Armored Kayle?
: Kayle's visual design missed the mark
That dumb thigh armor...ugh.
: "Sex sells" is legitimate as long as it does not hinder character identity/theme/coherence
It's the dumb thigh armor that REALLY pushes it over the top for me. Like, the bodysuit, I dislike, but she's not the first champion to wear it. But the thigh armor makes it really obvious that they want you to view her sexually, which is completely against everything Kayle is.
: Gotta say: Not a fan of Kayle's new look.
I really dislike how she loses her helmet and the weird armor bits around her hips, yeah.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 15
Can we stop just reducing Karma to a poke mage, please?
: I'd expect her VO to be her thoughts or internal monologue. So while everyone else directly addresses other champs, she might think/say something like "I wish I could ask to pet it!" for a yordle, or something more judgy that no one would say out loud!
See, this seems perfect to me. I hope they go this way and rely on a lack of vocal taunts/laughs/jokes to show off her muteness, just like currently.
Rioter Comments
: Skin Universe Lore in 2019: Alt Fantasy, Multiverse Theory, and You
More written lore, less comics and videos please. It's a lot easier to digest written lore than it is to have to watch a video (and, usually, constantly pause it to make sure I'm not missing anything.)
: Your Shop Returns
6/6 on champs I play! Also 6/6 on champs I already have better skins for. Not giving up Elementalist for Steel Legion, or Dragon Master for Northern Front. Better luck next time, Rito.
: Karma Gameplay Change Preview
No shieldbomb means I don't care.
Sukishoo (NA)
: K/DA Ahri, Akali, Evelynn, and Kai'Sa
I'm still annoyed Ahri got another KPOP skin. Like, yeah, she's the most Korean champ in the game so if anyone would get a KPOP skin it's her, but come on.
: I watched this video this morning - pretty grim viewing :/ Folks here (and the OP, Noies) seem to be be the kind of players who have thought about this deeply - what do you all suggest for the future? Of course, we cannot change the past, and flip-flopping back would likely be the worst of all possible worlds. What do folks here think would be the best path ahead? I know this will probably turn into a "Yeah but I want to talk about how bad the past was!" discussion, but there is literally no time machine available (not even for poor Zilean or Ekko) - so what's your solution-orientated future? If you just want to rant at someone at Riot, I'm happy to take that on the chin though :) {{sticker:galio-happy}} Totally cool if you don't have suggestions - it's not incumbent on you to do so, after all, but I wanted to hear from folks who might have opinions and want to share them.
Honestly? Stop changing things, at least in the short term. I get that that sounds incredibly close to 'the past was bad', but I'm seriously having issues staying invested in characters and a story that can and has changed, repeatedly, over and over again, for no reason that I can see. Fiora's dad went from a good guy to a bad guy for...reasons. Varus is now three people, for...reasons. Stay consistent with what you have and actually push forwards with your ideas. If Riot shows the reason that the old champs 'needed' to be changed, maybe the people who are upset at the changes will at least come to accept them. And if Riot stops changing everything, then it'd be easier for people to get invested into the lore.
: I'm really busy today, but I wanted you to know that I read all of your post and I want to continue the conversation in a timely fashion. :-) I think there is a slight misunderstanding here, though - we've never said "This never existed" about anything in the lore/canon, nor do we intend to throw everything out from before 2014. However... what we are (I hope, consistently) saying is *"Anything that is not currently on Universe or the Runeterra map is not canon, and we are not guaranteeing that it will be restored in any way"*. If something is not player-facing on either of those two locations right now, please don't hold your breath for it to return, because it might not, ever. (However, MY personal pain point is that some stuff that existed before November last year is also wobbly in terms of how "canon" it is, and we just haven't gotten around to removing or updating it yet. It sucks that I am only really allowed to vaguely wave my hand and say "We're getting to it", but I can't even highlight which parts of the lore it would include.) The only other option was to completely remove everything that wasn't considered canon last November, and then add stuff back in as we worked on it. I still feel that would have been a worse experience for players, worldwide... But anything published since November 2017, you can have much higher confidence that we won't change it anytime soon. And lots of other stuff that is older also will not be changing. But some stuff will. I just can't really say which parts at this stage. I'd hope we can repay your trust and patience by actually making it BETTER, in the long term. :-)
>And lots of other stuff that is older also will not be changing. You sure about that?
: These are all valid comments, and I'm aware that there is pain when stuff gets changed. That sucks. ThermalKitten and I have been quite open about this - we want to minimise player pain when we update lore. We have tried a few approaches, and we have more in mind that we'd like to try out. However... some old lore is going to change, completely. The Journals and the Institute, Summoner's Rift being a location, all of that is most definitely not canon anymore, and we can't cling to it when we plan out new stuff. That's not even our call to make, actually. (Did you get a chance to watch the Narrative panel from PAX West, this last weekend? We actually touch on this, and some players said it helped them to understand why we had to change certain elements of the old lore.) I would always pledge that we don't change stuff just for the sake of it. It HAS to be for a reason, and now we can be a little more open because Riot has adopted a more open stance on this. We are working towards other products beyond League, and the old lore and really early versions of champions don't really fit within that. However (again!) we can and should try to honour the themes of older lore, where possible and appropriate. With reference to Zed and Syndra, those champions are simply not in the same mindset or looking to the same goals right now, at all. In fact, they'd probably be enemies, if they met today - Zed would likely see Syndra as a dangerous liability for their homeland. But as I said, they might come to be closer, or linked in some way, as stories develop. Time will tell, and then we might give them some sort of formal link on Universe. I'm looking at the lore with the fresh eyes of someone who HASN'T been following it for years - that's one of the reasons I was hired. I saw a player ask why Syndra and Zed were linked, and I could find no lore-based reason, in the up-to-date lore, that we consider canon. So we made the call to change it. Nothing more sinister than that. :-) We want to make this lore fun and accessible for new players, as well as keeping true to the characters and places that existing players love.
Varus is now 3 people. Yeah. Still upset about that.
: Absolutely - I hear you. I've seen players comparing Riot's monthly lore updates to Disney retconning the Star Wars EU out of existence... and I do find that a little excessive! :-P I'd like to think we're taking something more like, say, the 'Star Wars Holiday Special', which was a crazy pile of ideas and content from different styles and creators, and creating new, expanded versions of those same pieces, only with more up to date lore context around them, and taking into account everything that's happened since then. I'd hope, as time goes on and we continue to develop and deepen the lore, players who REALLY loved the old stuff will see that we're gradually improving the quality of writing, as well as the consistency between stories.
>I've seen players comparing Riot's monthly lore updates to Disney retconning the Star Wars EU out of existence... and I do find that a little excessive! How? There were a bunch of old Star Wars stories that were the canon. Now they aren't. There were a bunch of old League stories that were the canon. Now they aren't. How is comparing the two situations 'excessive'? > I'd like to think we're taking something more like, say, the 'Star Wars Holiday Special', which was a crazy pile of ideas and content from different styles and creators, and creating new, expanded versions of those same pieces, only with more up to date lore context around them, and taking into account everything that's happened since then. So you realize you're comparing the entirety of old lore to something that is wildly considered some of the worst pieces of television to ever exist, right?
AD Yuumi (NA)
: Nexus Blitz alpha: Week 2 feedback and patch notes
The 'blessing of Blitzcrank' really seems more like a bad thing than a good thing. If you're trying to siege melee champions under tower as a squishy ranged, the LAST thing you want is for said melee champ to now be in range of their gapcloser. Especially if they're a tank, and have the defenses necessary to tank. Also, should FoN be unique?
: Hey I'll give a quick insight into how I view good enchanter gameplay * Spells that put more power into other champs can only make up a minority of my power budget * Healing, shielding and buffing tools fall into this category * Good examples - > nami & bard * Overall my actions encourage champs to fight each other * Janna and lulu have been problematic here where they can feel like an impenetrable defense * My success and failures are clear and reflect my skill or good decision making * Many good examples here. Sona has some of these problems when she had too much power in "just be an aura"
>Spells that put more power into other champs can only make up a minority of my power budget So...how do enchanters work, then? The entire point of the role is to help out their team.
: I think you put it pretty well actually. Nami / Bard are the modern brand of enchanter. Even though Nami doesn't do nearly as much "enchanting" as a Sona or Soraka, the feeling of being a positive supportive ally is still there. Edit: also I didn't answer your question about if enchanters can become more viable in solo lanes. Generally we're not opposed to it if the gameplay isn't completely degenerate (old soraka starfall spam). Though in some cases like lulu they can work pretty well but in others their tools make it hard for them to be viable with minor tuning.
How is Bard an enchanter? He plays more like a roaming damage-dealing champ than an enchanter.
: Are you referring to this 175-word extract from her previous bio? _Throughout her youth in Ionia, Syndra's reckless use of magic terrified the elders of her village. They took her to a remote temple, leaving her in the care of an old mage. To Syndra's delight, the mage explained that the temple was a school - a place where she could develop her talents under his guidance. Though she learned much during her time there, Syndra no longer felt her power growing as it had in her youth. Her frustration grew, and she finally confronted her mentor, demanding an explanation. He revealed that he had dampened Syndra's magic, hoping to help her learn control and restraint. Accusing him of betrayal, she advanced on the mage, commanding him to lift the spell that was holding her back. He backed away, telling her that if she couldn't control herself, he would be forced to nullify Syndra's magic completely. Furious, she summoned her power and dashed the old man against the walls. With her mentor dead, Syndra felt the rush of her unbounded potential for the first time in years._
: This is apparently a common misconception. We even reworded the bio to make it clearer, based on concerns that were voiced to the writer by (a VERY SMALL number of) players when the draft story was leaked... Syndra is not "stealing" magic. She is not pulling magic from other people, or the land, to fuel herself. The difference is in he term _leach_ (which is used in the lore) and _leech_ (which is not). They are very different in meaning. Her power is unique. It comes from within her. She doesn't fully understand it, because no one ever taught her how it works... but it seems to get stronger when she is in a "negative" state of mind. And when it is at its strongest, and she uses it and walks away, the residual effects on the magic of the land around her are quite disturbing. Without understanding how or why, she is creating "magical fallout" that permanently (?) sours the spiritual energies of the environment nearby. This is why, presumably, the Spirit of Ionia itself seems to have tried to imprison her. IMO, Syndra is now a character with a thematic conflict, where before she was rather lacking. She is a personification of not being aware of the consequences of your own actions, but also of the dangers of marginalising people who don't fit into the dominant worldview - can you imagine if she'd been born in Noxus with this power? They would have been very impressed, and nurtured and trained her, and let her loose on the front lines at the first opportunity. She's not evil. She was just dealt a difficult hand of cards, in the grand scheme of things.
>IMO, Syndra is now a character with a thematic conflict, where before she was rather lacking. She is a personification of not being aware of the consequences of your own actions, but also of the dangers of marginalising people who don't fit into the dominant worldview - can you imagine if she'd been born in Noxus with this power? They would have been very impressed, and nurtured and trained her, and let her loose on the front lines at the first opportunity. How wasn't she like this in her old lore? She has power she can't control, her teacher instead tried to lock away her power, and when she found out he tried to take it away entirely, so she kills him. This seems fair more of a story about 'the dangers of marginalizing people who don't fit into the dominant worldview' than a story where she kills him as soon as she finds out he lied to her.
: Again - siphon/drain/steal are all 100% not what is happening.
Then why did she kill a tree the first time she used her magic? Why did the spirit of Ionia itself try to imprison her, if not in self-defense?
: Strange snowball and dash animations [gameplay?]
: So now there's going to be true stealth... Then what the fuck is true sight?
Yeah, this is just weird as hell. I don't make judgements on champion strength before they're released, but I thought we had an entire stealth rework based around streamlining stealth and making it less annoying for a reason! Come on, Rito. We don't need exceptions to everything.
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=5Percenter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkNAelF2,comment-id=00010003000000030000000200000001,timestamp=2018-07-12T19:14:14.026+0000) > > How about getting stuck with the same toxic person or bully over and over again. Even in back to back matches. And before someone says wait a few, there has been countless times I get them the next day or even two days later. Nothing more fun then that shit, I do what you guys say, only to get stuck with this jerk again. I mean I busted my ass to try and get honor unlocked, but do to this I'm backed to locked honor. > > > And before you blame me, why are they in a match with someone they just harassed. I reported them last match and nothing, yet I get banned. Yup, you guys are right, nothing toxic here, move along. So its hard to speak specifically into that unique situation without knowing the full context, but I agree thats a frustrating experience that theoretically shouldn't happen at lower elos where the # of players is high enough that you shouldn't be matched with the same person. I'll ask around about that...
I mean, I just got the same support Pyke in two normal games in a row. I didn't even notice until he complained about our Darius in the second game, since we also had an underperforming Darius in the first game. It's rare, yeah, but it does happen.
: The only lore that Narrative folks are _guaranteed_ to work on, is the stuff that surrounds each new champion or VGU - so the game v/o, bios, and a color story. For literally everything else, we have to convince someone, somewhere (depending on what it is!) that it will be of benefit to Riot, by enriching and deepening the player experience. There is a genuine belief among some non-Narrative Rioters that players are not interested in lore or stories beyond the basic game of League... although that is slowly changing now. Comics. Audio. Interactive content. Artwork that isn't just champion splashes. All that good stuff has shown a genuine desire, globally, for more Runeterra outside of the game. The regular faction updates have given us a platform to tell more stories, on an almost monthly cadence, and now in different media like audio too. Artwork captions and region descriptor updates are also part of this new effort, where appropriate. If you guys want more, and more often, please tell Riot that. Because the people who make the decisions can't always just count on me or Thermal Kitten pleading and citing boards/Reddit/Twitter conversations, as proof... {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Still? Because I know I've been complaining that the only time we get lore is when something new/reworked is coming out for, like, at least three years now. This is immensely disappointing.
: To be clear, when I say "of benefit to Riot" - I mean through Narrative writers and editors devoting their working hours on it, or spending money from a budget, to create additional value for players. The mission is always to make the player's experience the best it can possibly be, so the question we face is always "Could this money/time be better spent on something else, that will deliver a better experience for players?" So, for everyone who wants more/longer/more frequent lore and story content, you need to make Riot aware of that... both by telling them outside of the boards, and also by engaging with the content and sending your friends everything you think they'd like!
>both by telling them outside of the boards, Because they don't pay attention to boards or what? Do you want me to start a facebook so I can start spamming the official LoL page with 'more lore plz'?
Naalith (NA)
: I didn't realize that audio dramas were something we needed for League lore...
Honestly, I'm not impressed. I want to know more guaranteed facts, not 'here's what this dude at this pub thinks about this champ'. It seems like an excuse to test the waters on new/reworked characters, and hide behind 'well the narrator isn't always right' if something shows that that people dislike.
: Hey, Gold Light, hope you don't mind me taking a little aside to your main topic, but you spurred a thought. How would you (and the rest of the Story, Art & Sound Board) feel if, say, there were little interactive versions of a champ's story. Now, before anyone gets too excited, this is just a hypothetical, but it's something I've been thinking about with stories being presented in various mediums in other IPs. As an example - there was a game released a while ago, that had a famous IP, and both players and the developers had strong opinions on what was, and was not, appropriate to see in that game. Some players found the inclusion of characters in a level/time/setting, but who would never have been able to attend that level were in in the movies, jarring and broke their immersion. Developers (I believe, and I may be misremembering this so I apologize - it works for this hypothetical anyway) found this to be acceptable within the IP, due to the type of game it was - but claimed that suggestions of extreme costume changes (that would be out of character) as too far. Some players (probably not the same players who cried anachronism or immersion) didn't see why it would be a big deal. And beyond all this - the very nature of the game was to play out the actions of certain IP events - almost certainly having it play out in an alternative way to what was seen in other media (the 'canon' version). So to apply this to a champ's story - imagine that there is a canon version of the events that transpired. Let's take Nami's bio as an example. There is a canon version of Nami's bio - both in written and comic form. If there were an interactive version where you could choose, as Nami, whether to dodge left or right when threatened by a underwater monster - which of those actions is canon? Does it bother you that some players took the other option? Now obviously dodging left or right (if there were no differing outcome) is pretty much the definition of a trivial difference - but at what point does a difference become too big? If, in an interactive version, Nami could, though your actions, fail in her mission and not get the abyssal pearl - my personal opinion is that most players would understand that that was not the canon outcome. What if you, the player, chose to kill or spare Rasho? Would you want some indication of what the canon events are/were, and if so - would that diminish the purpose of the whole endeavor? I guess it's related to your OP - an interactive story involving a champ would be a What If by its very definition because having a choice means the opportunity to take the choice that isn't 'canon'. What do you all think? **TL;DR - If you're playing a Spiderman game, and you fail a web-swing and slam into the windscreen of a bus, do you consider that canon? How do you know in an interactive experience what is, and isn't canon?**
Interactive stories don't work for a game like League, that has contiguous lore. They're only reasonable in single player games that don't have any sequels, or have sequels that have little to no plot connection to the first. You cannot possibly account for every possible choice made in the first game, and if a choice isn't accounted for...well, that sucks.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BdPgp4xW,comment-id=0001000000000002000200000003,timestamp=2018-05-18T21:42:17.515+0000) > > That being said, it's not particularly refreshing to hear that you guys are so utterly willing to gut the lore of existing champions just because you've created a new champion who fits the theme better. > Actually, I as far as I know this was the first time this was attempted. But in defense of the process it wasn't done Willy-nilly. **You have to change stuff to try and make things better.** And... thus you will sometimes fail. Times change. Character's that do not change are dead. They fall away forgotten. i.e. Batman has been: funny, Goth, dark, nippled, lego, and gloomily envious of superman. My dad loved the Adam West version and hated all others. I love the dark knight. There is no right answer. Only versions that are successful or not.
>Times change. Character's that do not change are dead. They fall away forgotten. i.e. Batman has been: funny, Goth, dark, nippled, lego, and gloomily envious of superman. My dad loved the Adam West version and hated all others. I love the dark knight. There is no right answer. Only versions that are successful or not. Batman has been around since 1939. It's been disingenuous to point to a character that's been around for almost a century and use that as an example as to why a character that's been around for half a decade should change completely.
: So I'm gonna be totally honest. (buckle up) When Pyke was entering pre-production, narrative was also looking at Nautilus's lore. He along with Fizz and a few other champs were still outliers from our recon / current lore. And there **was** concern Pyke was too close to Nautilus. But internally, our leads felt that Pyke hit the "revenant" thematic better than Nautilus. Then the plan was to change Nautilus's lore significantly-- prior to Pyke's release. --And actually they were going to change Nautilus to something I pitched to solve the problem. (Namely: Nautilus was a person seeking redemption within the cult of Nagakabouros. He was a man that had agreed to have his soul placed in a sacred golem. An extremely difficult and lonely duty working as a sentinel for as long as he could keep... going.) Internally teams loved it. **BUT** that pitch was then taken to players with a rather larger survey and... the players hated it. They wanted Nautilus to stay a revenant. Yeah. Uh.. oh.. By now Pyke was well into production (and VO) and it was uncertain how / who was going to fix Nautilus. (And I was on another project) My assumption was that Matt did not know what Nautilus was going to be (or that Naut was going to stay the same) when he wrote the lines for Pyke-- so he avoided the character-- because he didn't have anything to write towards.
Holy shit, actual proof that Riot changes their lore based on player feedback! Will wonders never cease! Keep this up, Rito.
: The leads added new restrictions to script lengths. While i disagree with the exact number they took, we absolutely needed to limit the audio files size/number creep. The writers (like matt) are attempting to find the best places they can give maximum value within those new restrictions. Unfortunately, it’s a subjective call and will never be right for everyone. This is in no way meant to discourage or dispell your feedback— quite the opposite — keep it coming. Rito absolutely listens, it just takes us longer than you think to shift. (I.e a champ’s design takes 6+ months.)
Well that's immensely disappointing.
: Personally, I think it's lame to have a very hard rule that heavy-handedly prevents him to get a respectable level of tankiness. I also do think that it was necessary in this case for the champion to function.
I get that this isn't your wheelhouse, but...doesn't that kinda mean that the champion concept is flawed?
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.11
What are your thoughts on Pyke not being able to build health?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 16
Personally, I'm concerned from a design perspective on the HP-to-AD conversion on Pyke. I understand you want to prevent him from going tanky, like happens with so many other assassins with CC, but this honestly feels like the shittiest and least elegant way you could have done it. Are we going to see more of this stuff? 'No, you're squishy, you can't buy armor.' 'No, you're tanky, you can't buy damage' and such. Cause that feels really shitty.
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Hellioning

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