: The Final Boss approaches
I love {{champion:45}} !!! Please be Veigar! Final [Boss] Fantasy retro reference / Super Smash Bros Reference! :D asdl;kjdf;ljksdfl;j
12tales (NA)
: Ryze is the mage to Ashe's rogue and Garen's fighter - not only should he be considered in the context of overall balance, but also in terms of his ability to introduce new players to the 'mage' role. It wouldn't really make sense to give him a complex, difficult to use kit when he's supposed to be intuitively usable by people with no LoL experience. So long as he isn't a balance concern, I think the whole 'Press Q for damage' sort of playstyle he has should be kept.
"newbie champs are suppose to be ez" is part of the reason why they can never be balanced. Sticking to this counter intuitive philosophy will only result in power creep, being boring, or incredibly under powered in the midst of balancing them throughout the game. You're essentially ruining and stunting these champions potential for higher level a play while throwing them in the trash can after "newbie" status when you stick to this bad "newbie" design philosophy. League isn't even hard enough to warrant a newbie champion. Go play DoTA 2 and tell me which is harder to manage (and what's more confusing).
: Does Ryze need a kit rework?
The "mash your keyboard" game play obviously needs to go. Ryze is probably the worst offender for this, but I'm more concerned with the top 10% FoTM champions that are dominating the meta. Button mashing is boring, but picking only 10% of champions in the LCS (and sometimes solo queue..) is even more boring.
Merth12 (NA)
: Srry to burst your bubble...but this perfectly fits Khazix. 6- many people refer to him as K6 S- Stealth Like you said and yeah all the same. Sooooo...Yeah.. The whole 6 sec passive thing is a streach its Kha'zix...srry.....She will probs get one I a later time..
While both are candidates, stating "its [x] srry, you're belief is invalid", just makes you sound rude and ignorant. Please refrain from this behavior.
Aamano (NA)
: inb4 Ultimate Skin theory
If you're correct, then there's a huge possibility that her VU is arriving with it, considering she lacks skins and they don't want to do any until her VU. Also, please link to this hint. I have yet to see it besides the 'A' hint.
Fyndra (NA)
: Open letter to Riot: NA Central Servers
EUW got their Central Servers...it would be nice we got ours...
: Community! Tell me your skin ideas.
I'm a big fan of Harrowing skins, and hope more skins are made for it. I know Annie has plenty of skins (2 legacy, 1 bundle exclusive), but maybe someday...? {{champion:1}} Zombie / Horror Annie (She fits so well with the Horror genre SO much...) http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/316/a/a/zombie_annie_by_cainulgen-d6tz3fv.png Sophisticated Annie (idk what this is called, but it looks amazing) http://i.imgur.com/CU1puO3.jpg {{champion:117}} Harrowing Lulu (idk name, Korean) http://upload.inven.co.kr/upload/2012/10/26/bbs/i3955674755.jpg {{champion:45}} Harrowing Veigar (idk name, but it looks amazing) http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/319/8/1/twisted_treeline_veigar_by_reislet-d5l2jgq.jpg VU Veigar inspiration maybe? http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/211/c/9/League_of_Legends___Veigar_by_Anarki3000.jpg {{champion:84}} Djinn Akali http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/336/3/2/djinn_akali_by_milkydayy-d6wh88q.png Desert Rogue Akali http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3nt8x1FpH1ruybyvo1_1280.png Reaper / Dollface Akali http://www.aterriblemind.com/images/AkaliLoadScreen2.jpg {{champion:39}} (Dont know name, looks awesome though) http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/188/d/9/irelia__the_first_rozen_maiden_by_k3lp0-d3l9g1h.jpg There are countless of awesome skin ideas. I dare not to list them because they have been mentioned already. I voted up the ones I like best, but it seemed like there was quite a few. :3 *Disclaimer: None of these images are mine, found them via Google.*
PalakoI (NA)
: More Champions means more bans
Their first step needs to be immediately putting a halt to changing masteries every season. While this makes things "fresher" it most certainly is annoying to find certain things broken (perseverance needed the nerf, and I felt this immediately). Don't get me wrong, I love innovating and being one of the first to spot things when it comes to theory crafting, it does nothing for the health of the game if they continuously shift the meta to a different 10% of champion pools. Their second step is (and sorry to say this) that they need to STOP making new champions at a rapid pace, or altogether until they shut down the FoTM problem. Right now, they have accomplished this slightly but it seems to be always something game breakingly broken (hello Yasuo / Braum walls), and creating a much more frustrating experience. Honestly, we have enough champions right now, and not enough of them are even in a good spot. Again, when I say not enough, I mean 90% of champions are being thrown out of the meta and becoming unviable. We all have expressed this concern with lackluster same boring picks (except Voyboy, love him) from LCS, but the concern is much more dire. Sadly, the only thing from Riot I have felt been doing an amazing job has been the visual updates / clarity team. I understand game play is a hard shell to crack, but this has been an ongoing problem for years and needs to be solved before people just shift to another MOBA. The more champions they add, the bigger the problem is just going to get. It's not just about bans, but the problem with the FoTM train being 10% of the champion roster. It just doesn't help with new champions like Yasuo and Braum making life a living hell with a broken game mechanic that effectively nullifies SO many champion abilities with one good wall. To me, right now, League honestly is about FoTM and effectively ruining someone else's experience from one simple pick. Infuriating, and not innovative. This is from someone who loves LoL.
Fearless (NA)
: > If you were describing Sona to an inexperienced player, how would you finish this sentence: "You should bring Sona because _______________". > > If you can answer that question, I will gleefully concede the point. because: * Her ult is immensely powerful. * She has great poke and sustain. * She gives her allies tremendous amounts of power in a team fight. *Edit to fix formatting.*
> > If you were describing Sona to an inexperienced player, how would you finish this sentence: "You should bring Sona because _______________". > > > > If you can answer that question, I will gleefully concede the point. > > because: > > * Her ult is immensely powerful. LOL. You act like it's a giant traveling knockup, something that can't be countered (face the wind, says Yasuo / Braum), or that she's game breaking. Nobody says her ult is the best in the game anymore, are you living in season 2? You pretend to think she can burst people with it now and it's a spell that's used every 10-15 seconds (hello Nami Q). Try building her AP without any defenses, you'll die before you can even hit R. Don't believe me? Go play against a smart Rengar / assassin who catches you out while you ward river. They will enjoy your tears and screams for mercy. Hell, they don't even have to be an assassin. Any form of damage will do. Oh is that a Lux laser I see? It's ok I'm on full health... "You have been slain". > * She has great poke and sustain. Poke? She will die (via CC enemy reaction) in lane instantly if she even ATTEMPTS this. You act like her Q targeting is reliable and doesn't already put her in a risky situation. If anything blocks your pathing, you just wasted the trade. Sustain? Why sustain with a single spell when you can poke AND sustain spam Nami's W all day. > * She gives her allies tremendous amounts of power in a team fight. > > *Edit to fix formatting.* You're joking right? With the duration of these "buffs" being so LITTLE TIME to react and hardly visible to your team mates, good luck making use of that buff. Let's not forget the shit range. Too busy telling my team mates "STOP OUT RUNNING MY AURA" to even give it to them. Also, you can forget about giving it to anything but the ADC, you'll never be safe if you're trying to tag the melee front line. Btw, thanks for the shield buffs. They do nothing 90% of the time even with my Korean reflexes. Too busy trying to keep the ADC from falling below half health so they don't get instagibbed. Oh, and E is amazing. It's just what I imagined. A speed boost that I have to run either backwards to tag someone (wtf?) or tell my team to slow down so they can go faster for 1.5 seconds, effectively giving them no distance gained. PS: I played Sona +15 games in 4.13 in a PvP setting, and I still agree with everything that the OP said. Every single damn thing he said. I'm dead serious and yes I read the entire text wall. You want to know the tl;dr about Sona so you can understand what's wrong with her? She's NOT FUN, she's NOT USEFUL, and she's a LIABILITY.
  Rioter Comments
Ulanopo (NA)
: An Open Letter to Fearless Regarding the Sona Changes
I read this entire post, and I could not have put it into words this perfect. Every single thing by the OP is how I exactly feel (not a Sona main, but I do love her and play her now and then).
Fearless (NA)
: So 45% crit is going to require 2 crit items, which is often waaaaay farther than level 9, probably much more likely later into mid teens. That means that Sona has another rank on her ult, which means 10 more on the proc, and Sona is much more likely to have some amount of AP. Maybe not. Sona's that are going full utility will be granting less power to her allies, and that's a build choice we wanted to support. Previous W: 40/55/70/85/100 + (+25% AP) (per target) New W: 50 / 90 / 130 / 170 / 210 (+ 40% AP) (per target) If we go with healing per second, this brings these numbers slightly closer, but ignores the increased mana expenditure.
Build her utility worthless. Build her AP worthless. Build her tank worthless. She dies. She dies. She does nothing. WTF am I suppose to build? I am forced to buy a god damn dorans shield with tank masteries (no support) at the start just so I don't give first blood and get poked to death. Effectively forcing me to not receive gold. I've built the gold income items, AP, utility, I can't find anything to build to be useful. Since you want to dictate how Sona plays out, how about you tell me what the fuck I'm suppose to do instead of me thinking for myself? How do I position myself? What do I do against assassin/AoE burst comps? WHEN AM I SUPPOSE TO PICK THIS OVER A TIER 1 SUPPORT? Just pick Nami, and not suck like Sona. The only answer.
Fearless (NA)
: > You don't necessarily need to play the new changes if you simply apply mathematics in place instead. Countless people that did not have access still followed the changes and used arithmetic to understand what was happening: > > Power Chord triggers 33% less often Assuming you were casting every ability on CD, sure. Questionable in actual play. > Staccato does 25% less damage, Diminuendo and Tempo are more difficult to apply with differentiated CDs > Changing the CD requires adjustment sure, and there is some lack of access here, yes. > (Not)Auras have 350 range = ~66% less, 75 range less than the shortest ranged champ in the league(Urgot), 200 range less than an average ADC(550) > This is an interesting point of comparison. Given that these auras don't tag enemies, I don't know if it's particularly useful. The aura range has been kept conservative compared to previous auras or item auras, but that allows for them to have a lot more impact/power. > Hymn gives ~50% less strength to your ADC, 100% less to most mages and probably some small percent less to the front line as well(assuming you can give it to them without dying) I'm really interested to see how you calculated this. Looking at level 9, Q aura previously gave each ally 20 AP/AD. It now grants 90 magic damage, not counting her AP ratio. Outside of Kog or Trist, who can actually use some of the AP, that takes 5 auto attacks to beat out the new Q, assuming Sona has 0 AP. Saying that the new Q bonus can't be used by mages or front liners is pretty situational. Plenty of our mid laners either have strong incentives to use autos, while admitted some will not. I'll fully admit that Anivia + Sona isn't as powerful. Sona having a more strategic place in game generally allows us to make her better at the things that she does. > > Aria heals less ranks 1 and 2, can become even ~3 and finally comes back at 4, shield duration is too short, debatable if stronger than +20 defense, but again won't benefit the front line unless you feed a kill This ignores entirely the missing health scaling. Max heal on the ability is greatly increased over pre-update Sona > > Celerity has higher base and scaling, but without the passive MS breaks even for those 1.5 seconds, then falls off when it ends This is only true for very limited segments of the game, and definitely not true for Sona herself. Because E grants %MS, this ability gets stronger as people start buy boots, upgrading them, etc. That being said, giving it power in cases of engaging and disengaging over roaming was intended. It goes back to if Sona should being maintaining her team or empowering them. Obviously the current thought leans very heavily towards moments of empowerment. > > "Some buffs" ain't gonna cut it, as the numbers show. It's going to take buffs across the board solely to bring her back to her original strength and even then people won't have forgotten what happened. Obviously, we don't agree in our analysis, but I do really appreciate a post that clearly reflected your thoughts and laid out where your frustrations came from. I hope you actually give the Update a chance and try it out in a game.
First of all, I love her visual upgrade, kudos to them. However, whoever designed her rework, needs to pull her off live and retune her. She is absolutely the WORST champion for interaction I ever played. Tagging allies is a joke, for what shotty benefit it provides at such a low duration and HIGH CD downtime. Not to mention, you literally have to SHOUT at your team mates to stand in your "auras" (just stop calling it this). But guess what? They're too damn afraid to get AoE nuked just like you are! It's a death trap and it's damn irritating. She was not ready for live, and yet you shoved her out there. I specifically remember hearing "She's going to be on PBE until we meet quality". This did not happen and she is not quality right now. I even commented prior to this when it was announced, that we got the impression you wanted her this way and could care less about changing your decisions. To be frank, it came off rather unprofessional. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and said I'd wait to see it for myself. I have done this, and I feel honestly, at the greatest level of disappointed. I'm not a Sona main, but I know what Sona is. This "thing" is a walking meat bag. You can't call these spells auras anymore since you removed them. Fine, whatever, remove them. However, she feels absolutely horrid with these spells and I have yet to save someone with them or make any useful impact with them. I shield and ally, they get blown up still. I E an ally, they either struggle to stay in the aura or I struggle to keep them in it. I feel in no way useful at any stage of the game because I'm just going to die. I can't even poke in lane without being terrified of being instagibbed. So I went casually poking from the bush (EVERY SUPPORT DOES THIS) to sitting in the WAY back pressing W all day. Her passive attack based on spell was a great idea, however, in execution, it's terrible. There is absolutely no way to use these without sacrificing a spell (if you even can when it's on COOLDOWN!). It might as well have been an ability in itself. She received no reasonable compensation buffs for her "auras" thrown in the trash can, making her effectively a meat bag ready to get blown up. To make matters worse, I'm getting destroyed by any AoE team comps because I tried to be useful. Yet I get punished for trying to make use of my lackluster "aura" spells that don't even last long enough to be significant in a team fight. This is the first time I ever complained about a champion update. And yes, I played her 5 games already. I been playing this game for years to know I'm making my presence worse by picking this champion now. Tell me where the hell I should position myself because I cannot find a single spot other than frontline where I die instantly. Anywhere else I can't even contribute to my team mates. And screw tagging allies, I have yet to save a soul and I get yelled at for being too close (unit collision might as well be removed for her).
: Why Sona's rework is a failure - A discussion about identity
"We are going to keep her on PBE longer than most champions to make sure she's quality" Such bullshit. And yes, I've played her before and after. I'm no Sona main, but she was one of my favorite supports and I struggle to do anything for my team no matter how hard I try. First time I'm actually pissed at Riot, FYI.
Tadidam (NA)
: I think this rework is very bad. So now Sona has no longer auras, just short aoe buffs and she just feels like a different champion, much weaker overall. What pisses me off the most is that she was a perfectly fine and well balanced champion before riot had to ruin her. Very disappointing.
This. So pissed off for letting this release to live in its current state. I've even forced myself to play her to prove myself wrong and no, she sucks so bad it's not even funny.
: Why Sona's rework is a failure - A discussion about identity
There is no realistic positioning to Sona. Either you're in the front (dead), or you're either in the back (non-existent). Seriously, what was so game breaking about old Sona compared to the tier 1 supports right now? Screw Sona, go play Nami, better in every way.
Rioter Comments
: Splash art options?
I feel you, and honestly think it would provide more variety. Personally, the only splash art I miss is Akali's Blood Moon. It felt very artistic and moving. The one currently is good, but I don't have the same artistic enjoyment of it. [](http://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/233/b/a/lol___blood_moon_akali_by_knockwurst-d47e43d.jpg)
keizgon (EUW)
: Can't log into new boards (duplicate names, different servers)
Ok I fixed it, but it wasn't clear to me I had to exit the new beta discussion boards and switch the server to NA. I think this could be handled directly with the boards better though... I mean, I didn't even know I was using the EUW server page. I haven't used it in awhile.
Krylhos (NA)
: How do you feel the eye strain is compared to the current "Community Beta" - http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/site-feedback/L109ZwVw-change-log?comment=000c
I never thought the white version of community beta was eye straining. I did find the highlighted (yellow) areas were, but not the overall color theme. Edit: The new community beta honestly shouldn't have a black background. I know you guys are trying to pop out the comments section, but is actually making everything appear darker than it should. I'm also confused at the choice of brown/orange as the text color. Neither of these colors are appealing to the eye and doesn't create a focal point to stare at. I assume this is what you were asking.
Kikirino (NA)
: A "Why Not?" Idea: Spectate and wager IP
Don't like the idea of encouraging "gambling" methods. This isn't a casino or race track to bet on. Even if just IP, it's a bad idea.
: If the website was offline, I doubt I'd be able to get to that page. Has anyone tried it yet?
Well it could say "maintenance" when something is making things lag/break/etc. It doesn't necessarily have to say "offline" to be useful.
Tamat (NA)
: Hey all! Great feedback in this thread. Thanks for taking the time to tell us what you think. I'll pass it on to the team, but please do me a favor and vote on the content that you like the best, so that we can better gauge what the majority is thinking.
I don't see a problem with the layout. Everything looks good. I like the rioter comments on the left side personally. I just wish we had a brighter theme option to toggle. :)
: NEW THRESH SKIN
Arclight Thresh or go home.
: I like how it is, honestly, for me they should keep this colour etc.. I seriously love it... Other people may not like but.. I'm the one who like it :)
We're not asking them to remove it, we're asking them to give us an option to change between themes. Some of us find dark backgrounds too much for our eyes.
Krylhos (NA)
: Change Log
Too dark for me. I find it hard to read on and is strenuous on my eyes. I'm not saying it looks bad, I just request a 2nd theme where I can switch to a "brighter" and more readable theme.
Rhlax (NA)
: Too dark for me
> I know a lot of people like the darker theme, but having an option to choose a lighter theme would be nice. Agreed. I know there is a need for dark themes, but making a lighter theme as an option would be very lovely. I use to love dark themes too, but as I have gotten older, I have grown to prefer "readable" over "cool". Looks good, just not really in my preference. :(
: (Emphasis on 'someday' for now - we've got a long road ahead of us to get there!)
Someday is better than never! Take steps, breathe, just get there "someday" XD
: Free game on free OS, doesn't this just sound perfect? I'm sure to try it out day one!
I'm willing to celebrate with massive RP purchases on this future day!
: Patcher & Landing Page Visual Refresh to PBE
Riot, are you focusing on giving cross compatibility for your new future client? Linux user here wishing to play on Ubuntu Linux finally. I assume this because you're using HTML5 (cross platform) for the layout, and Adobe Air has always made WINE break. But a native client would be so awesome from you! Death to Adobe Air. :)
Benmjy (NA)
: Will the Mac Client be getting the update at the same time as the PC Client?
I'm assuming since they're using HTML5 as part of their code for the layout, that they're focusing on cross platform compatibility. Since, after all, HTML5 is cross platform. I'm hoping Linux will finally get to become a native client with these changes in time. Please Rito. Ubuntu/Linux native client compatibility. D:
ventropy (NA)
: No it won't. The patcher update that we are releasing to PBE includes a lot of the core tech needed for a new client. The patcher update won’t use Adobe AIR, it is built on our own native code base and HTML5 UI.
Btw, does this mean future native Linux compatibility with your client? o.o I mean you COULD. Just curious if you are considering it. I miss using Ubuntu!
: We NEED options in the client, like in game keybindings, graphics settings, in client sound for pregame and the like.
I completely forgot about this! Yes, pre-game keybindings, graphic settings, etc for in-game options are a must. I don't know how many times I have been forced to just go into a custom game to do this -.-'
ventropy (NA)
: No it won't. The patcher update that we are releasing to PBE includes a lot of the core tech needed for a new client. The patcher update won’t use Adobe AIR, it is built on our own native code base and HTML5 UI.
THANK YOU. I wanted to hear Adobe Air disappear someday :') These are real tears btw. Thank you. :')
: Thank you. This is the first step of a long process, and we definitely want your continued thoughts and feedback. Looking forward to you all letting us know what does (and doesn’t!) work. We’ve seen a few threads of your ideas on how to redesign the pre-game experience, and are constantly impressed by everyone’s creativity and passion. :)
Please correct me, but did you guys just say you're working on ditching Adobe Air's client slowly but surely with your own? I hope this is what I read, because I been waiting ages for this. Also, the art/landing pages looks aesthetically pleasing and makes sense to me as an artist/player. I approve of this layout.
: One aspect of her game play that could truly have been great is "Cord Twisting" Using various combinations of Q W E with both order and frequency could create various temporary effects.
The only thing I like about this change (barely a buff though IMO) is that each Aura can now be applied with a different passive effect. Giving her more combo cords by switching between abilities would be very interesting and skillful at the right situations. I mean she is already terrible with the iteration, she could use the extra skilled play they ever so been seeking. Giving her more combo effects would (*shock*) make her seem like she's actually trying to play the freaking keyboard (with skill).
: up and dove votes dont mean much either as many just read a comment and keep scrolling or reply without up or down voting aswell
Agreed with Luner Hunter. I personally hate this iteration (balance-wise, VFX are amazing) and left a few comments. I didn't down vote because I have faith in Riot listening to our feedback, not being frustrated and confused with the massive down vote circle jerk people provide. Comments mean more to feedback than downvotes. Stop that nonsensical gibberish, ShadowGlaive. If they really think voting is a thing over comments, then I will lose faith in the practicality of this feedback and start down voting with the rest of the general populace.
: 1. Buff Sonas Q/ult damage and fuck the auras 2. lower mana cost for ult (should be 100 for all ranks) 3. sona needs more dueling potential 4. fuck the teamwork nonsense the current sona is good enough for helping teammates she STILL has not received a q buff/power cord compensation buff for lich bane being gutted AND you already nerfed her damage previously now your telling me you want to nerf her power cord from 100% to 50%? seriously what the fuck she is missing out on a good 100-250 damage PER ROTATION over old ap sona why the hell would you remove that much damage from a champion and not give a compensation buff? NORMALLY when you nerf damage you do it by 15-20 damage instead of fucking chopping 200 damage off the champions kit for no good reason just how much does riot hate sona? a 5 item leona with thornmail can fucking 1v1 a fed tryndamere but you dont want sona dueling anybody? why do you insist so much on sona being a bad champion that relies on teammates to be carried to victory and cant 1v1 anybody herself? if you gutted any other champion and removed 100-250 damage per rotation from their kit there would be fucking rioting in the streets so why the hell do you think its ok for sona? stop acting like only shitty bronze 5 people pick sona that want to sit in a bush the entire game and get carried and let her actually FIGHT other champions how about that for your "healthy interaction" bullshit? the interaction of being able to actually fucking defend yourself in a 1v1 situation
Sadly, with the current Auras, I have to say, I agree. If she cannot even be useful with Auras and this is the direction they want, then it might as well be time to remove them altogether and make her a champion who can duel like everybody else (every support can do this unlike Sona). Every support (including non-meta ones) make these Auras look like eye candy over usefulness. I see no reason to bring a shotty Aura champion (as it stands) in over any other support role.
: After seeing her current [list of changes](http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/jbIE4XVr-sona-update-feedback-and-bugs-thread), here is my opinion: **Pros** * Auras actually feel strong and is now a bigger part of Sona * With the exception of E, Sona's active portion of her spells remains relatively the same * Sona's poke feels stronger because of the bonus on-hit damage from Q * Adding the shield on her W makes her feel more supportive **Cons** * It is very hard to tag your team when they have high mobility, such as Yasuo * By having a small snuggle zone around Sona, this can help the enemy set up AoE spells on your team, such as Mal ult * Compared to live Sona, E is drastically nerfed because it now only grants the movement speed to allies within the aura. This part makes her feel less supportive D: **Other Notes** * Powercords now seem harder to set up and choose the correct ones to use. Have to now decide whether to save your spells for powercord or use the spell for the stronger aura boost * Positioning is now very important. If played well Sona is way stronger than live Sona * Sona now doesn't seem like she's constantly playing a piece of music * Sona always benefits from the auras, and the aura buff makes herself stronger. Comparing to live Sona, this makes her seem a bit selfish because she is always the one that is guaranteed the aura boost. * Because positioning is now very important and Sona will have to dart around the field to tag her auras, the self E boost seems a bit underwhelming number-wise **Suggestions** * Because Sona's identity is music, listening to her music within her musical aura should have effects that last while the aura lasts. Ex. The shield duration should refresh as long as you're inside the aura; E should give the speedboost for as long as you're inside the aura * A performance is only complete when you listen to it from start to end. Perhaps there should be a slight bonus if allies stay in the aura for the full duration(and by the way, I think the extending duration per ally mechanic helps enforce the performance theme; as in more audience = more support!) * E should retain the small, instant on-activation ally-wide speed boost, whereas the aura will prolong the duration and/or enhance the effect * I think you should say which part is being kept, and which parts are being removed. This should help clear up some of the confusion about random nerfs :P (Such as the Q bolts from the change list) **Questions** * Do Sona's auras still persist/overlap for a few seconds when she switches spells? * Will Sona's ult be modernized to have the 100 mana at all ranks?
It's a joke to say Auras are stronger now with that -700 range radius nerf. She's going to need one hell of a buff to her kit across the board with all these changes to even be useful. Not going to list why you're wrong about her strengths when plenty of people (I read their list and agree even as a casual Sona fan) have left comments here (who actually play her on a competitive level) have stated why this is a massive stealth nerf to her.
: Did Riot abandon the Fiora update?
Seriously, I been wondering this too. Fiora needs this update so bad. She either pubstomps or she is useless. Isn't this clearly Urgot unstable behavior that needs to be fixed ASAP? Her rework on paper sounded so good too. Like, what was so wrong with it compared to her broken self now?
Fearless (NA)
: Sona Update Q&A
First off, I just want to say I'm very happy with the graphic VFX / clarity display on the current PBE, kudos, great job, and rarely do I try to be outspoken about disagreeing with changes (never done this with early iterations). I've loved many of these PBE changes and reworks/follow ups (Nidalee [jungle buffs please], Skarner, etc). I don't have an account, but I too would like to have one to see first hand with Sona though. Deeply concerned about this direction of her and honestly cannot say I'm impressed with the defensive responses on an early iteration of her rework. This leads to many of us to believe your ideals intend to keep her in this terrible state due to preference and no real incentive to keep her on par with top tier supports. I'm sure this isn't the case (at least I hope) since you've followed through with good results (in my eyes) in the past. I cannot see her current iteration to be useful in any case scenario even with a high skilled player. She is simply shoved out by other supports like Braum, Thresh, Leona, etc, etc making her pointless as a champion (and I do agree, it might as well be a statement to delete her as drastic as this sounds). What's really pathetic for Sona right now is that her only role (support) is her worst role. This is really saying something considering she can't even solo lane / jungle. A Braum / Thresh / Leona can do these roles 100x better and come out fine in a low elo match. Try doing any of these with Sona and you will struggle. My point is, she has nothing to offer and you're effectively butchering her to nonexistence. She may be old, but she most certainly shouldn't be treated anything less than equal to Braum, Thresh, Leona, Nami, etc etc. Having said that, that's just my PoV from just a glance and thorough read of this rework early concept. It has been stated many times over you (Riot) want to get her right so she will be on the PBE much longer than most (probably like Nidalee). I respect this. But be prepared to understand the change you're giving her makes her even more useless than before and will result at the bottom tier below Urgot's existence if you don't recognize her current iteration problems. Again, the graphics and clarity are amazing looking at the PBE videos, bravo. However, I'm not sure the game play will even be useful at its current state (prove me wrong and give me a PBE account, something I been sitting patiently for nearly half a year). I don't understand why the auras don't persist forever until you activate a different one, if they're going to be so ridiculously small. Is she an aura champion right now? I would say not in the slightest. She either needs more range or much longer (and I mean MASSIVELY LONGER) persisting auras. Don't like Auras? Give her something useful then other than this.
: I wasn't directly referencing you wanting to let Urgot become a female, just in general about him retaining his maniless. Please do not patronize me. It was just miscommunication. Urgot was brutally slaughtered during the war with Demacia. As such, he was reanimated using parts and scraps. Could he be less fat? Maybe. That being said, it's unfair to compare him to Hecarim. Hecarim is a centaur, an evil one at that. A creature of Greek mythology everyone knowns about. Urgot is a unique... thing. All of Urgot's skins are gross, except Battlecast. If you find his theme unappealing, that's falls on you and not Riot to appeal to the masses. Urgot is a unique champion that has a very Frankenstein's Monster feel. He should keep this feeling throughout. His kit on the other hand needs work.
I think you're being a little too defensive yourself to call it patronizing, over a mis-communication. I was in no way attacking you or "patronizing". Now to be on topic... Visual appearance and lore, you should know by now, aren't always a good indicator of the direction they can take him (see Trundle relaunch). To reiterate from a similar response I received elsewhere: > "I think if they just removed the fat part of Urgot, I would enjoy him in visual design. There absolutely is no reason a Frankenstein-esque creation has to be fat from built parts. I mean take the novel Frankenstein by Mary Shelley as a straight example. Victor Frankenstein's monster was ugly and human, but in no way was he fat. He was strong, muscular, but terrifying to look at with all the stitches coming together to formulate a human being. > > Singed looks in no way close to ugly as Urgot. He has his own trope IMO, being a scary and intimidating man in the face, but still aesthetically pleasing to look at throughout his mechanical body (though still needs a VU)." Majority of people don't choose champions like Singed and Hecarim (opposed to Urgot) strictly for their lore alone. They choose them because their kits/appearance are unique/appealing (note I said appealing). Urgot has none of these **good** qualities in his current form.
: He should keep his ugly, reanimated, Frankenstein-ish feel. Even in the updated splash art, Urgot remains his terrifyingly hideous theme. Urgot should not become a women or become any less revolting than he is now. While I agree he could use a rework (even though his kit is loads of fun), he should not lose any of his ugliness.
I never once suggested he should be female (the example could easily port to a male figure). Please read. First off, I believe he can still be a Frankenstein Monster-esque champion by having a things like the example (but more stiches, more abrasions) while keeping a more appealing (muscular) human form. Even for someone like Hecarim, who follows a human/monster hybrid form, he still looks 100% more appealing than Urgot. Why not just strictly keep Urgot's ugly trope stashed away as a traditional skin instead? Urgot currently sits in this corner as a "only played when OP" or "never played because always ugly" even when they finally find a happy strong balance for him. Out of every single champion (I own all but 11, but played even them on free weeks), I have never wanted to ever touch Urgot. It never had to do with the power level or sense of balance he needs. He just is incredibly out of place and never will be an understandable trope.
Rioter Comments
: There's a lot of stuff going on here that I like, I'll expand more on about it when I get back. EDIT: Ok, FINALLY WON A GAME. Anywhoozle, yes, I generally like this concept. I think it does some interesting things that preserve what I feel is core to Cait. There's some aristocratic notes, there's some sophistication, and there's class. I do feel it might be a bit too Victorian to be uniquely Piltover, whatever that means. That's part of the challenge actually. We've made Jayce and Vi, two people who are supposed to be interacting with Cait and she simply doesn't fit in. They're not really steampunk in thier language, they're sorta.. "manatech". So, while I feel Cait can have Victorian notes, we should find a way to bring her into that manatech (or hextech) area and get her materials, her shapes and other properties in line with Piltover. Part of that is sort of figuring out what the hell Piltover actually looks like. We have a start with Jayce and Vi, so that's good. We may have to flesh a few more details out before we jump right into Cait. Her hat is another thing. Some love it, some hate it. It is indeed iconic. When you think of Cait, or you associate let's say.. cosplaying Cait, you think purple frilly short dress, knee high boots and big Willy Wonka hat. Now, charm is great, but we need to extract what that charm is and see where we can re-channel it. Maybe a bowler hat? Maybe just a smaller version of her current hat? I do love the hat for its charms, but it's sort of silly. That said, if we ever, and that's a big if considering our priorities right now, hit Cait with a VU, my gut guess is that we'd do a traditional skin for her. That way i think we can solve some of her thematic issues without destroying the charming thing we've grown to love. But yeah. With our priorities now, a Cait VU is probably a long way off, and as per usual, about anything I talk about: http://imgur.com/8JAJGRg
I apologize for necro-ing this in advance, but I just wanted to join in the discussion since I couldn't/didn't at the time, and this seems to be the "go to" place to do so without losing track of valuable feedback? There also was a recent forum discussion on this (with hardly any real feedback ensued): 1) Traditional skin - I am very appreciative for it being taken into consideration due to the nature of the overhaul needing. Her theme to match what "Piltover" and "Caitlyn" is most certainly lacking / out of place on live. She also happens to be one of my favorite ADCs aside from Jinx / Tristana, and picked her up back in season 1(?). She has a classic charm and it should be preserved, but it most certainly shouldn't hold her back from evolving with the game with its current "whacky" and "cute", yet out of place design. 2) The redesign example model looks like a step in the right direction. However, I feel like it could benefit further following the Lady Mechanika theme with slightly less purple colors and possibly giving her more aesthetic appeal in her attire. Needs more leather maybe? :) I honestly do not think the cape fits her though, maybe a proper pea coat would? It almost resembles this but showing her flashy purple chest piece instead of it being closed. I think if the cape stays I fear she might start resembling Vayne too closely. Her hat I hope becomes closer to resemble a bowler hat, which is much smaller and fits a Sherlock Holmes theme. I feel this is more synonymous with Caitlyn as a detective than a sheriff motif. She's after all, "On the case" and places traps. :) I always imagined her to be more "witty" in personality than "I'm laying down the law". 3) I feel like there is a bit of some "empty white space" throughout the model example. She could use a few more accessories (traps, bullet casings, etc) than is shown (place on belt around her waist?). The goggles are a great example of filling this out, even for a bowler hat (if you go this route).
: We're strongly considering something like this for live :)
I agree with this post. I don't believe I have ever heard "inhib respawning x:xx time", only "inhibs respawning soon guys". Also, why did the inhibs never get a visual upgrade for after they are down? Seems out of place to see those old down inhib graphics. If they have been upgraded, I haven't seen them in the demos anyway.
Hasan11 (NA)
: Tower Shots on new SR
I'm on the fence with this one. As an older player, I still find the old shooting particles too intrusive and block where I can see the turret aggro when last hitting creeps under tower. Though, this doesn't mean there could be some sort of middle ground for a change because they do seem a bit lackluster for newbies to understand. Maybe give them a slightly bigger blast radius the stronger the hits become gradually? Though I do find on the PBE (don't have an account, just listening to the sounds from demos/other sources), that turret shot sounds are very annoying and out of place. They sound like they're slapping something. Their old turret sound effects on live are quieter when hitting creeps, which should be a standard in the upgrade. I also find the visual effect of the towers being destroyed awkward. I feel like its death animation jumps too fast from exploding to falling and has no real transition. I understand if the visual explosion has to be minimal, but the death animation most certainly could be better transitioned.
: drop everything and work on POPPY!!!
I wish she would look something like [this](http://oi59.tinypic.com/21j11u8.jpg) in attire. Though her face should look less child-like and probably more cougar-ish. Older is better than a fat football head anyway. >.> I can't wait for [Tristana's VU](http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/279/f/1/tristana_league_of_legends__knkl_by_knockwurst-d6pjjzl.jpg) too. Her face creeps me out in-game...
: I think Veigar has to be a furball underneath the hat, but I also think they should keep the black mage aspect and not show his face. A voicework change would make me sad, but we all know Riot will do it, after what they did to Nasus.
Old Annie's VO was done by the same person when they did the new VO. Even though it's disappointing and sad, Nasus' original voice over was done by someone who passed away. There is only so much they can do about that.
: Poppy can jungle quite well brah.
She can (unless an invade prevents you to get blue), but with the upcoming rework, who knows? Still a new yordle designed specifically for the jungle would be awesome. :)
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Hexflashed

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