: The Same Face is real
I love everything about this, I don't know why them looking similar is a problem. They remind me of Claymores. It's hella sick.
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: Riven has 53% wr with 13% playrate it's not _some_ players doing well with her, its **anyone** doing well with her on a high skillfloor and skillcap champ. Riven isnt a _boring_ champion so we cant expect any action from the lcs meta team.
Statistically it’s still Riven mains, most of the new numbers are old rivens returning to the champ since she’s too strong right now. Not defending that strength, but it still isn’t just “everyone.”
: Okay then let's just come out and say it: Morgana is not allowed to be a mid. Let's just say it. Let's get an offical riot statement that Morgana will never be a mid again because this patch is literally just designed to force players to play Morgana in bot lane.
It’s not going to kill Morg mid. Her W is kind of crazy right now. That they didn’t outright remove the execute scaling portion AGAIN shows their support for Morg mid, they’re just making it healthier for everyone else too.
: >Morgana... with a focus on bringing her mid lane performance in particular down, since she's most out of line there. Aiming for a fairly light nerf right now. Why look at Morgana mid with her couple percent above 50 winrate and her couple percent pickrate? If a couple of percent earns you nerfs, why her over the ones being picked in the double digits like Rek'sai, Vayne, Riven, etc.? Just because they're sisters doesn't mean they have to do everything together.
As someone who’s been playing Morg, who also plays Riven and is getting into Kayle. Morg is the most inherently unhealthy of the three (not including runes or items.) Hitting Q, W on someone and literally nothing else for a near one shot combo from afar is pretty heavy, especially for a champ with no real weakness in lane. Not saying Riven, items, or conqueror still don’t need to take a hit though, simply that Morg doesn’t leave any room for counterplay once the binding lands.
: Why does a character have to be nerfed just because some players are using it well?
It’s a tad bit more complicated than that unfortunately.
: I mean did you come here just to say you main riven? This has nothing to do with whay i said or this post
I’m invalidating your comment. Both of our champs aren’t in healthy states for various reasons, primarily runes and itemization. Maining them before the strong points occurred means nothing to that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hi im a Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cYX1XqGj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-13T02:40:58.355+0000) > > This is a meme right? > > Riven maxes E to survive poke lanes, E max guts her burst potential so much that most Riven players won’t even consider it. It would be a meme, if she didn't dive a malphite with her conqueror? There was a post before of a malphite dying under tower to Riven E max.
That's called playing poorly then. E max Riven doesn't do much damage until she starts putting points into Q. Also Malphite handles dives really well, just save ult. Like I get that Riven is an issue right now with conqueror and the current itemization, but this post is just silly.
: The 1st nerf to Riven, Force her to Max Q instead of E 1st...
This is a meme right? Riven maxes E to survive poke lanes, E max guts her burst potential so much that most Riven players won’t even consider it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hi im a Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h4beGyFv,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2019-03-12T20:57:58.784+0000) > > I have nearly 2mil on her. > > I’m not a happy person. Her current state is inexcusable and every game I’ve played her lately I actually just 1v5 shit on the enemy team. That’s boring. Mind you not playing ranked definitely could be a factor but it’s legit just lame when I don’t have to work hard for that performance anymore. I put all this time in to master a difficult champion, not an easy one. > > Something is gonna have to budge, either her or runes/items. What do you think is a fair solution?
Personally I know for a fact that conqueror and items are the problem. But if Riot doesn’t want to budge on those then unfortunately Riven is going to have to take a hit.
: I mained vayne before she got the buff. 2 1 op champ means there arent more?
> [{quoted}](name=letsfeedtogether,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7kPLsEEK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-12T15:59:37.647+0000) > > I mained vayne before she got the buff. > > 2 1 op champ means there arent more? I mained Riven before she got to this point as well. What’s your point?
: > [{quoted}](name=Hi im a Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JWHjs3KX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-12T21:11:36.619+0000) > > I’ve gotten one as well. Personally I believe her early game is actually very manageable. I’m one of those apes who runs Klepto and just sustains and pokes up for free gold to hyperscale. > > Also, it sounds odd, but skip the guinsoos. > > Been getting so much out of a three build startup of nashors, gunblade, and Rylais. Exalted passive and her E have insane synergy with that item. I feel like items aren't even the spike. I feel like a lv 6 kayle full build isn't nearly as strong as a 3 item lv 11 kayle
> [{quoted}](name=AngusBoomPants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JWHjs3KX,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-12T21:15:23.019+0000) > > I feel like items aren't even the spike. I feel like a lv 6 kayle full build isn't nearly as strong as a 3 item lv 11 kayle That’s a fair point I agree on that, but I mean just the stickiness, survivability, and damage is crazy. I also don’t feel that Kayle gets that much out of guinsoos compared to other users. ‘Also people are totally letting wits end slide under the radar’. It’s a really good end build item on her, maybe even a good rush in the proper comp sircumstances.
: I got a penta kill on kayle
I’ve gotten one as well. Personally I believe her early game is actually very manageable. I’m one of those apes who runs Klepto and just sustains and pokes up for free gold to hyperscale. Also, it sounds odd, but skip the guinsoos. Been getting so much out of a three build startup of nashors, gunblade, and Rylais. Exalted passive and her E have insane synergy with that item.
: > Rioters should not willfully lie to the playerbase and should be held accountable. Agree. > lie on Twitter that it is a "western phenomenon" I said that her frustration is a western phenomenon. She is banned 60% more often in NA than her global average. Ban rate is a readily available statistic that we believe can be correlated to frustration. I also said on Twitter that Riven is a strong champion right now. Somehow that didn't make this post. There are good justifications to be made for nerfing Riven. I personally think some are pretty compelling. Good arguments can be constructed to nerf many things, however, and we want to be sure we're applying consistent measures in our approach to balance. I think we've not been great at this over the years, really. Some champion will always be the strongest one that does not get nerfed in a patch. This patch Riven's pretty darn close to that. If she picks up any more, she's probably due, but we don't think she's crossing that line right now. For those that are actually seeking a discussion, what is the criteria we should be using to justify a nerf to Riven this patch that we'd be 100% happy with applying to champions in the future (NOT the past, as I've already stated we haven't been consistent)?
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bEraBg5K,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-03-12T19:15:25.451+0000) > > Agree. > > I said that her frustration is a western phenomenon. She is banned 60% more often in NA than her global average. Ban rate is a readily available statistic that we believe can be correlated to frustration. I also said on Twitter that Riven is a strong champion right now. Somehow that didn't make this post. > > There are good justifications to be made for nerfing Riven. I personally think some are pretty compelling. Good arguments can be constructed to nerf many things, however, and we want to be sure we're applying consistent measures in our approach to balance. I think we've not been great at this over the years, really. > > Some champion will always be the strongest one that does not get nerfed in a patch. This patch Riven's pretty darn close to that. If she picks up any more, she's probably due, but we don't think she's crossing that line right now. > > For those that are actually seeking a discussion, what is the criteria we should be using to justify a nerf to Riven this patch that we'd be 100% happy with applying to champions in the future (NOT the past, as I've already stated we haven't been consistent)? Nearly 2mil Riven chiming in here. Personally I think you guys should test a version of conqueror without the healing/true damage or both. Focus on the adaptive force scaling and make it old fervor basically. Speaking from experience I can say in large part the crazy power of Riven right now doesn’t come exclusively from any one particular item, rather a trifecta of synergy between her kit, her items (particularly DD) and conqueror. The same could be said for several other champions this couple of patches, but Riven is on an extreme end of the scale. It’s crazy what you get from conqueror true damage healing + DD’s new passive.
boogers5 (NA)
: Lol. I have 170k on riven. I'm a happy person
I have nearly 2mil on her. I’m not a happy person. Her current state is inexcusable and every game I’ve played her lately I actually just 1v5 shit on the enemy team. That’s boring. Mind you not playing ranked definitely could be a factor but it’s legit just lame when I don’t have to work hard for that performance anymore. I put all this time in to master a difficult champion, not an easy one. Something is gonna have to budge, either her or runes/items.
: I dont play her at all but all i ever hear from Riven mains is that shes "trash" and then i look over at op.gg and see she has a 53% win rate and a 13% pick rate and im just like....how? and thats an honest question how can a champion with a 53% win rate be bad? My small brain apparently can't understand this to any degree.
Nah, coming from a Riven main, we know that items are too good on her right now. Even with Conqueror nerfs it still synergizes really well with her kit too. Something is gonna have to give, either her or items are going to see a nerf. They may honestly need to just revert conqueror though...
: Daily reminder that Hashinshin won four ranked games on Riven despite never touching her once before. He even went on to say that Riven mechanics were ezpz.
Hash got carried in every one of those games, he didn’t even know how to fast Q or perform any of her kill combos. Not arguing that she isn’t a bit too strong right now but conqueror also made Olaf and quite a few other champs bonkers too. We’ll see what happens after the dust settles
CLG ear (NA)
: I want to know why they made the Design choice for Alita: Battle Angel for her to have those giant
When they tried her look with a test audience with normal sized eyes it didn’t go over well. Ironically they had a difficult time humanizing the character so the director said to make the eyes bigger so they could portray emotion in a more apparent manner. I honestly don’t think they eyes are bad, just different. Funnily enough her eyes are bigger for the same reason eyes tend being larger in the original medium the work is from.
Rioter Comments
hoganftw (NA)
: Now that Riven is seeing play in the LCS
Paroe (NA)
: Isnt it amazing how scaling sustain works? Maybe you should take a nice long look at other scaling sustain. Like Fiora. And Riven. And maybe even good old warwick. And lifesteal.
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FoH5L6TF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-13T08:50:22.932+0000) > > Isnt it amazing how scaling sustain works? > > Maybe you should take a nice long look at other scaling sustain. Like Fiora. And Riven. And maybe even good old warwick. And lifesteal. Riven doesn’t have a single ounce of sustain in her kit????
Paroe (NA)
: The support item changes arent to combat a "toxic or cancerous cheese strat top". Theyre to combat the increased amount of vision that the strategy enabled. Just another step in their moronic war on vision.
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tu0VzhdE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-13T02:10:46.434+0000) > > The support item changes arent to combat a "toxic or cancerous cheese strat top". > Theyre to combat the increased amount of vision that the strategy enabled. > > Just another step in their moronic war on vision. I need my tin foil hat.
: riven vs renekton riot you every played this in the office
Rylalei (EUNE)
: 2 seconds less on early W, and since he maxes that last, his laning is safer.
> [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nzwqBHvR,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-10T20:00:46.016+0000) > > 2 seconds less on early W, and since he maxes that last, his laning is safer. Considering how long it already is, I think 2 seconds off is fair.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: So....screw Zed
How exactly did they make his early game safer? The only thing they changed is the second cast distance of W aside from some very minor damage buffs. The way I see it, they want him to be able to splitpush again like he did in season 4 and 5.
Galiö (NA)
: I like to think of us as digimon. I'm a rookie form that complains about one thing (Galios W) and sometimes other things You're a champion form that complains about a few things at a time and tries to keep attention to Volibear. D3stroy3R is an ultimate form (still dont know if I spell it right) complains about everything and is toxic 92% of the time and will never be happy with anything ever m. ------------------------ But with Trundle, I feel maybe they should give him another scaling somewhere in his Kit to push him back into the meta a bit and not just be the anti-stat check stat checker that he is, even though that's what his niche will prob always be (especially against Sejuani)
> [{quoted}](name=Galiö,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K8vWkEjs,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T20:43:19.908+0000) > > I like to think of us as digimon. > > I'm a rookie form that complains about one thing (Galios W) and sometimes other things > > You're a champion form that complains about a few things at a time and tries to keep attention to Volibear. > > D3stroy3R is an ultimate form (still dont know if I spell it right) complains about everything and is toxic 92% of the time and will never be happy with anything ever m. > > > > ------------------------ > > But with Trundle, I feel maybe they should give him another scaling somewhere in his Kit to push him back into the meta a bit and not just be the anti-stat check stat checker that he is, even though that's what his niche will prob always be (especially against Sejuani) Malicious Metal must be a digital Sovereign then.
: wtf is Conqueror?
Riven is among many on the list of champions that this rune is designed to synergize with. How is that abuse?
: Re: new conqueror
It's exactly how old fervor operated, but with an anti tank element for extended trades.
Jobriq (NA)
: Now it is I who try hard
He says that with a lot of champs.
Moody P (NA)
: it solves almost all of the actual frustrations of the rune while keeping it relevant to the intended demographic This is a great change
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9IKr9lE6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-08T01:46:13.317+0000) > > it solves almost all of the actual frustrations of the rune while keeping it relevant to the intended demographic > > This is a great change Right? Like it's so much better and also has more room for counterplay than the current iteration.
: She is pretty much immune to slows thanks to the ability to spam dashes which do not take movement speed into account, so if anything she is more resistant to cc than most champions in the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E1EAqxsi,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-02-07T05:23:20.575+0000) > > She is pretty much immune to slows thanks to the ability to spam dashes which do not take movement speed into account, so if anything she is more resistant to cc than most champions in the game. Her defensive utility is tied to her mobility as well, if you hard CC her, if affects her even more than other camps.
: Like every other champion then?
> [{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E1EAqxsi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T04:26:06.540+0000) > > Like every other champion then? Doesn't make the statement any less true.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: I should be allowed to damage riven.
A CC’d Riven is a dead Riven
: New phantom dancer.
Except in this instance they’re having it designed for them. Cleaver is abuse at worst, and synergy at best. Steraks was a severe abuse case though.
Rester (NA)
: My question is why did it ship with 20% cd reduction on basic spells when it should've been lowered to 10-15% because that's what the issue was with the old Essence Reaver?
> [{quoted}](name=Rester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qN4bLjol,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-05T21:12:42.120+0000) > > My question is why did it ship with 20% cd reduction on basic spells when it should've been lowered to 10-15% because that's what the issue was with the old Essence Reaver? Build path is worse, combat stats are lower, price is higher. The issue with ER was just how damn good of a rush item it was. This is going to be second item after cleaver for Riven most likely. Shojin is going to be viable on more than just Riven and Renekton though.
: Matchmaking is a autowin/autoloss algorythm
Uhhhhh. I have not had this experience.
: Please reduce early game snowballing
I feel like it definitely goes both ways
Lhuhz (EUW)
: Eeeeeeeh did you saw the Sion nerf on PBE ? I assume you didn't.
> [{quoted}](name=Lhuhz,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bBcetojf,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-03T03:55:17.382+0000) > > Eeeeeeeh did you saw the Sion nerf on PBE ? > > I assume you didn't. I didn’t but, those nerfs aren’t going to solve his problem. It’s still a large amount of damage for a tank who becomes an unkillable wall in pro play because of infinite scaling HP.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 1
@Meddler. What are you guys planning to do with conqueror? Still interested to hear about the potential return of a fervor-like rune.
: You picked a tank
I’ve seen a 1/6 Xerath with tier 2 support item and oblivion orb solo someone in one rotation. That champ is never useless, even when realistically they should be.
: They talk about how hive minded boards are for supporting mages. Meanwhile all posts who does not want to gut them are downvoted. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
> [{quoted}](name=OP Garen Support,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BkTcghBw,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T16:15:39.087+0000) > > They talk about how hive minded boards are for supporting mages. Meanwhile all posts who does not want to gut them are downvoted. > {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} You’re being downvoted because you’re being delusional and making factually incorrect statements.
: why would they remove conqueror?
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8hE1QEmE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-30T22:24:35.785+0000) > > why would they remove conqueror? They already said it’s in the air. And with the direction they’re taking the game, it’s the most likely outcome. But they did say it would see a replacement in a new fervor of battle.
Zedthul (NA)
: How will the removal of Conquer affect Riven?
If they remove (probably when they remove) Conqueror, it’s going to be replaced with a fervor of battle styled rune. Hard to say where she’ll be, definitely not as good at dealing with tanks again.
: Riven has a higher pickrate and winrate than pre-nerf Jax
Wait for them to remove ER and conquerer first. I don’t like Riven being in the spotlight this much and I’d rather they address the big issue.
Rioter Comments
: Tips for Riven
/r Rivenmains, largest league champ subreddit and tons of info for beginners and mains alike.
Eedat (NA)
: So you're actually complaining that high skill cap champs have variance based on the skill of the user? Lol what?
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9R3fMma,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-19T07:35:33.714+0000) > > So you're actually complaining that high skill cap champs have variance based on the skill of the user? Lol what? That’s what I’m saying. It’s like people all of a sudden want to remove skill expression from league.
: If true dmg for bruisers (conq) and adcs (ie) goes away, then double magic pen needs to go to. It's practically true dmg for the majority of games aswell.
> [{quoted}](name=ankoanko19,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dWqegWbK,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-01-06T11:53:21.335+0000) > > If true dmg for bruisers (conq) and adcs (ie) goes away, then double magic pen needs to go to. It's practically true dmg for the majority of games aswell. Can’t talk bad about mages on the boards. They’re extremely biased to them, convinced they’re weak while their role dominates the game.
: Fervor of battle but instead of bonus AD it gives base AD so trinity users get stronger but it still wont be abused by Irelia, Fioras or Rivens abilities.
> [{quoted}](name=ankoanko19,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8Je3EE70,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-01-04T07:45:19.868+0000) > > Fervor of battle but instead of bonus AD it gives base AD so trinity users get stronger but it still wont be abused by Irelia, Fioras or Rivens abilities. But fervor was designed for those kind of champions LOL.
: you dont understand. just like most "smart" riven players. she has the highest snowball potential in the game. in high elo she stomps any game she is in. and its not based on skill anymore its based on when she gets r and builds an essence reaver or lethality and r,q,w,q,e,q,r boom whole team dead. this isnt a one time stomp feast its every guckin game of riven she gets 1 kill and just snowballs or she goes 0 and 10 then 1 shots the 11/0 adc cause she got duskblade ignite like you gotta be ither a riven main or an idiot to not know
Alright, better call up Viper and Adrian and let them know they’re no skill faceroll challenger players. Or better yet, the top laner who arguably secured victory for his team at worlds, The Shy? I assume you know him, real face roll kind of guy right?
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