Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 30
Hi Meddler, First, I love the quick game play thoughts and the frequency in which they're published. Second, the bounty system works really well and I'm very happy that you're continuing to tweak it so that it works even better. It's a very good system that allows a losing teams the break they need to get back in the game. On the other hand, if a team is really snowballing, then it doesn't hurt them that much either. Lastly, a question about the new ladder. **Has there been any discussion on how the visual side of new ladder system is working so far?** It's a little confusing from a very low player's perspective like mine. Where am I really on the ladder? Should I associate my success or failure with my primary role? Should I average all the ranks together? Should I use a weighted average to figure out a single rank? Before, I knew what Bronze 3 or Silver 5 meant. Now, the new system feels very awkward and moderately confusing. I like the idea of position ranks in terms of getting better (more fun matches), but I'd rather have one spot on the ladder instead of five. It's very hard to reconcile what winning really means. {{champion:19}}
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
grug (NA)
: Low ELO junglers building trackers knife and never warding
I ask supports why they buy sighstones if they're not going to use them. The common reaction to being challenged about it has been to sell the sightstone. 1/10 upgrade their trinket to red or blue after buying sightstone. 1/20 of those who get red trinket upgrade it to the level 9 version. People in Bronze buy what they think is right even if they don't understand why. Most people don't care about learning the game. Not knowing champs is forgivable. Not knowing the game ruins it for everyone else.
: Hey Riot remember when you said you would delete flex queue if it started causing issues with solo?
I miss pick order. This system seems to be a decent compromise. I generally get top/mid half the time with a few auto fills. It's not perfect, but it's not as bad as last year when the game was unplayable.
: PSA: Being Bad ≠ Intentional Feeding
I understand 0/5. I don't understand 0/10. That's intentionally feeding through active trolling or ignorance. Neither is better than the other.
Dynikus (NA)
: >Will Dyrus be good if you tell him to play support in challenger ranked? >Will Boxbox be good if you tell him to play adc? yes, because they both know how to play every role.
> [{quoted}](name=dynikus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N4oaQ3xl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-29T11:16:23.707+0000) > > yes, because they both know how to play every role. There are more than a few LCS players who have played different roles at the professional level.
: > [{quoted}](name=KillerPaulXD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N4oaQ3xl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T10:48:11.096+0000) > > I know... but why new system if I get a decent chance of playing support/adc/jg tough luck, learn to play those roles then. You should at the bare minimum learn the basics of each role so you know what to expect out of people on those roles
Drake, you're spot on. The system isn't he problem here. This is one step away from complaining about the meta not fitting one's personal play style. The time used to write and respond to this post could have been better used by the OP to learn more of the game, rather than complaining about the game not adapting to their personal play style.
jurrrr (NA)
: I stopped playing ranked. Last ranked game i got a braum adc. I carried but we still lost. But its my fault tho. I should be able to carry a 4/18 adc braum and get out of bronze 4 right?
LOL is more enjoyable when you stop worrying about bad teams. In ranked, I was bronze and getting angry. In norms, most opponents have silver borders and the games are much more fun. The best thing Riot ever did was add flex queue. Just another reason not to play ranked last season.
: Bronze is easy/fun as fuck. It might just be that Kog'Maw's win condition is reach late game, but I'm maintaining a semi-decent winrate in bronze so far. There are the games where I just wanna pay someone to boost my account to low silver, but other than that it's kinda fun curbstomping people and surprising them with the amount of damage koggy does
I stood still in the middle of my minions as someone walked right up to my Cho post 6. I don't think they knew how his ult works ... or how much dmg minions really do when you can't move away from them. Generally, Trundle's another good low elo in the top lane. Many players at that level don't know that his ult hard counters tanks.
: If they do this, people will just start playing the ADC and the support top and swap after taking the first tower. Also LCS will be the same farm fest.
We already saw this last split. After first brick. ADC immediately rotates to top.
: What if we moved the clown fiesta to top lane
Cremepie (NA)
: hmmmm split pushing Naut {{item:3068}} {{item:3512}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3117}} {{summoner:6}} {{summoner:4}} Would be really fun now that I think about it more lol, but why not just use singed if your gonna split that much anyway?
Nashors is a surprising good spilt pushing tool if you don't need more def stats. AP helps wave clear, attack speed helps tower killing.
Vesemir (EUW)
: Nautilus is just amazing
Nashors, Frozen Fist, Deadman. Super annoying split pusher. Nothing wrong with full tank either assuming there are some killers on your team. More fun as a sup than top though. Full tank top lane is so boring for 20 mins. <3 Naut
: > [{quoted}](name=Yeezy Taught you,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRLuhPWn,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-12-21T17:33:44.920+0000) > > its not mediocre its pretty damn good if your split pushing, 1v1 potential and more opportunities to 1v2 when the JG comes top for you. I think the real problem is that Rift herald isn't really fun to take. With Dragon, many champs can solo it, but everyone focuses dragon because everyone benefits. With Rift herald, you usually need 2 or more people to defeat it, just to get a buff that will at most effect one person. There's no greed in helping top laner get that buff, taking rift herald is purely a supportive task. If Riot is under the opinion that Rift Herald shouldn't be soloed, then I think it should grant at least 2 copies of the buff. (even if they had to tone the buff down to do it.)
That's a good idea. If it benefited both people, it would probably be a bit more popular. I've taken it once in 10 games recently and didn't need it on Cho'gath. We all stared at the buff and then the kinglet finally took it. That's the problem with the buff. It's too situational unless there's nothing else to take.
: Rift Herald isn't worth my Junglers time compared to four man diving bot with the Mid laner.
True. It's a situational buff. It's just not popular because the meta shifted away from split pushers like Trundle and Fiora. I would guess that it'll be reviewed again at mid season if the meta doesn't shift by then.
: Every 5 levels, you get a crafting item. You can convert this item into a random champion for any single role. Choose Mage, get random mage. Choose Marksman, get random marksman. etc. This lets you build up champs for roles you actually want, while still being fairly random.
This prob a better option. If Riot wanted to hand out more champs, they could just increase the IP rewards. I use IP for champs and RP for skins. I didn't have any trouble getting enough champs by 30 to do draft and ranked. If you're a new 30, generally learning more champs is more valuable than optimizing rune pages.
: Generally speaking, the junglers that thrive in competitive without destroying normal play are ones that scale very heavily with elo. Examples like Lee, reksai, nidalee, elise, rengar come to mind. Out of the junglers listed by OP, only kindred scales positively with elo (that I know off the top of my head). This means that it would likely be irresponsible to buff (as the only action) certain champions into competitive (Eg. Amumu, Sej), because for them to be at a power level that succeeds in competitive, their normal play power will be over 9000. Imagine if Amumu goes from 56% winrate at Silver to 48% in Challenger and we say a champion needs 52% (some arbitrary number) in challenger to be playable, then amumu is probably at high 50's% in normal play by the time he's viable in competitive. Contrast this to Lee who is 44% in silver, but 52% in challenger. Lee is now playable in competitive without breaking normal play. These numbers are not accurate, (but their relationships are roughly correct) and not the only factor that determines competitive viability, but it is definitely an important factor (another important factor is early-mid game priority and reliability). As such, accessible power and competitive viability are usually (but not always) at odds with one another. So the question becomes: which do we value more? Competitive diversity or accessible champions? Or are they equal? Can we accomplish both at once? If you're Lee sin, the answer is probably yes. If you're garen, the answer is probably no. Malphite and xin Zhao are amongst the most popular champions in the game. Would they still be popular if they weren't as accessible? Or would we ruin an easy and fun champion for a lot of players and still not see them in competitive? Do we want 133 ryze, reksai and azir's with notoriously low winrates (and low accessible power for the majority of players)? Champions like Ryze add diversity to the competitive game, but are also functionally useless for a lot of players. Design is a compromise and these are tough questions with no clear answer. But the obvious one is that we shouldn't just buff these champions with the explicit goal of getting them into competitive, because it is not guaranteed of working and it would likely backfire. (Eg. Sejuani threads from a year ago - "why is she the tankiest champion while doing the most damage and having the most cc?") If we want these guys in competitive, they probably require kit level changes to get there without breaking the game.
Thank you. I'm often critical of Riot, but this was a well thought out and well written post.
: easy to counter. Just hide behind minions when her yank is up, destroy her tentacles when possible - safely. and get {{item:3123}} If you pick into her, then go for someone with an interrupt or some form of cc into big damage. She can destroy tanks pretty fast after she builds her black cleaver so be careful of that kinda choice. If you are truly scared of her, then go for minion push potential like a quasi susan or a ranged poke through minions like jayce. just be careful and not expose yourself if you play ranged.
Yup. Ill is also a matchup dependent pick that is easily abused if counter picked. Heimer's tough too if you let him set up shop and don't destroy his turrets ...
: Illaoi is infuriating to play against.
Not sure why she's making a come back. Had an Ill feed my Cho the other night. Stupid easy matchup.
: I think the main issue is that their current automated system doesn't do a good job of giving people insight to their reports. If someone's being excessively vulgar, rude, racist, abusive, etc etc then the system SHOULD give us immediate response when we report that player, as it's painfully obvious that they deserve to be punished for their actions. Even if it's just one game, that doesn't give the abuser the "ok" to be racist as fuck and tell others to kill themselves. Things like "KYS" and other obvious slurs and derogatory remarks should be immediate red flags, but the system seems to either take so long to actually process such blatant behavior, or it's only letting players know when the report is the one report that actually results in a punishment (the catalyst/straw that broke the camel's back). So either the system needs to be looked at again to ensure that it gives players immediate feedback on blatant actions (if a rioter sees this, don't you dare come in here and tell me it fucking does because it doesn't), or the system's process needs to be boosted/reworked to not take so long. I get the age old "well what's offensive to you may not be offensive to others" argument, but when you begin endorsing your game as an esport, you lose rights to that argument. Professional athletes get flagged/carded for the dumbest shit because it's SPORTSMANSHIP. Guess what? Telling the enemy team "git fucked" isn't very sportsmanlike. Do -I- care if the enemy team says that to me? Not at all. It doesn't offend me at all (It's pretty difficult to offend me), but what the individual player thinks shouldn't matter; it's what the definition of sportsmanlike that matters. Also, old tribunal would result in it taking even longer for punishments to be handed out, I'd imagine. However, I do think that people would get away with less shit. So I think old tribunal would be more effective in punishments/quelling toxicity since the new system does such a poor job at actually punishing toxicity, but it would take significantly longer to see specific players be punished/get feedback on your reports.
Riot moved beyond the Tribunal a long time ago. It became a company focused on $$ and volume. Riot exists in CA, but it really a Chinese company now. They don't care about you anymore than Blizzard cares about a single subscription in WoW. It will never be like it was.
: Do you know why people continut to ask for the old Tribunal, over and over? Because it felt right!
Godhri (NA)
: Right... but the original post was about using the constitution to challenge the rules established by a private institution/ non-governmental entity.
Ok, the OP is right. There's a larger discussion here, but you're right that the OP is right.
: 1) I said they don't have _normal draft_. ~~Toxic~~ _Blind_ pick is still available but that's missing the point of the OP. 2) We on NA have normal draft, but the OP is EUNE where it was removed. 3) I didn't downvote, don't get butthurt over upvotes on the boards, they really are meaningless.
Blind pick isn't LoL. They should get rid of that and force people to actually play the game.
: \\\\\\\\...ITEM SETS...////////
They were very important for the people that apparently used them. They recommended items aren't updated nearly often enough to be useful. The disconnect issues in the new client are a deal breaker. Not including item sets is just a poor design decision based on some donkey data mining. I'd suggest that like many things, the player base doesn't use the feature because Riot never taught them that it was useful.
Rioter Comments
Godhri (NA)
: The constitution applies to all things within the United States in the context of governmental power. Riot is not a governmental entity; therefore, in the context of gaming chat, the right to freedom of speech can be limited by Riot or removed completely. It's a complex matter. The right itself was established to ensure that the people will always have a voice against the government. It does not necessarily apply to trivial matters such as chat within a game. In the impossible event that this does go to the courts, the judges will rule the same way. They would say that the context in which the freedom of speech applies does not encompass gaming chat.
Yes. However, the things that we believed were acceptable 2000 years ago or 200 years ago may not be true anymore. While the constitution and bill of rights in the US only apply to public institutions, it doesn't mean we shouldn't challenge all beliefs in relation to both government and private organizations. The US was built on a variety of different views and the discussions that lead to what we all agreed. Don't like something, speak up. I suggest hay you use $$ rather than words when it comes to businesses though.
: I hate it when my support doesn't build sightstone, but I hate it that they have to build it
Every new player must reinvent the wheel. It's always been this way and Riot has refused to help new players learn even basic item builds. The game would be much better if Riot spent more time teaching players good item builds and less time calling them out for not warding in bronze through stupid chart articles. The game can still be deep and rewarding experience even if Riot helps raise the skill floor a little bit.
: Ah nostalgia is sweet, isn't it?
The old select worked fine when players were reasonable and flexible. The system wasn't the problem. The new system actually makes all the old problems worse because it caters to the most stupid and lazy players.
: Please admit promos are a complete waste of time for people
The entire system just hides the ladder climb. The divisions and promo gates are either arbitrary accomplishments or an arbitrary way of blocking progress. Promos especially suck because people can see when you're in promos and throw on purpose. Match making and he ladder have never been a great in LoL though. Just depends how much tolerance you have for a ladder system that kinda works and players that kinda care. Use to see who you're matched with. It was tolerable 2 seasons ago. Dq was atrocious though.
: I really hope Preseason causes Teamfights to become longer and more skill based
: Nobody is deleting anything. This whole conversation is about the client update, which requires us to rebuild every feature from scratch. So we're talking about when or if we rebuild it, (before or after certain other features) not just willy nilly deleting the ones you already have. Anyways, more details coming soon!
I built item sets all the time when I started caring more about item builds. If players aren't using them then that's more of an indication that they need more visibility... not a reason to get rid of them / not bring them over to the new client. Maybe this is a reason many people don't upgrade their red trinkets during the first back post level 9?
: "only a tiny percentage of players use item sets so we are not bringing it to the new client"
Riot, 1 step forward, 2 steps back. First, it was go find a clan or guild to boost you. Now, it's go research and install 3rd party programs to support features that were in the game. Wtf is is wrong with Riot. Are they gonna apologize again next year for still being fucking stupid.
: When primary role is "fill" let us put a role we DON'T want as secondary
Fill is a lazy solution for a shitty match making system.
: Champion Insights: Ivern, the Really Swell Guy
I love the passion that goes into creating champs. Maokai is one of my first and most loved champs. I loved LoL and would still be playing if there were a soloq. :(
: They very explicitly stated they would never re-do these old skins, and that is why they took them off the market, because they aren't up to par with their standards but if you want a more "exclusive" skin then that's what it's there for. That said I do own the skin myself (TF main) and I still use it pretty often, it does show a certain dedication to use a skin that quite as flashy but much more exclusive. I'm happy with the skin as it is and hope they make a better legendary/ultimate skin for him rather than re-hash an old one
If that's true, they should take it out of the crafting system too then. I got this skin in the first couple of weeks after the system was released. If it's not up to par, it shouldn't be in the pool of available crafting skins.
: its all tentative ofc, might change, nothing in stone, yada yada.
Sounds like WoW. We'll give you a 40 man and a 15 man raid option. LoL was fun when it was a pick up and play game. It got old very quickly as soon as it became a "you need to join a guild" game. My solo $ weren't as valuable as a pre-made's $$$$$ I guess. $$ drive all decisions no matter what the founders say. I get it's a business, but the business decisions now outweigh all game decisions.
Meep Man (NA)
: How Come We Don't See An Uprising of Counterpicks to Supposedly OP Champions?
People are fucking lazy and stupid. A champ hits a 54% win rate like Yas and the boards want him disabled. However, the pros in both EU and NA looked foolish playing Yas last weekend.
Hezy (EUW)
: fuck riots shitty MM system
Swearing was step 4 of 5 on my way to quitting. Matchmaking has always been awful in LoL. You just don't realize until you start watching a site like Riot's not going to or can't fix the problem. Either learn to love playing again or quit. I've done both. One made me happier.
: Real Talk/Lesson for New Players: "What are you doing?"
Totally agree, but if you're going to write a long post, you should edit it for grammer to strengthen a good argument. Most of the issues I have seen are either trolling or people who haven't learned the game. Riot believes you learn through playing, but that's basically asking everyone to reinvent the wheel. I wish more people would watch a few LCS games. You'd pick up a lot more good habits than doing the wrong thing three games in a row. Maybe the new sandbox mode will help. Showing people why cs matters would be a simple way to improve the entire playerbase, although learning timings is important too.
: Sometimes you'll do something in normals that works so well, and consistently, that you have to see whether it will work in a ranked environment. I was having incredible success a year ago with AP MF mid but for whatever reason nothing would ever go right in ranked play. People claimed I was trolling even though I had spent like 15+ normal games working on build and figuring out what to do. Really most of the time it would actually be pretty decent, but it's like the whole mindset of the team changes sometimes if you make an off meta pick. The smallest error becomes a huge offense. Losing lanes give up quickly as though it was your off meta pick that lost their lane. The sad reality is that there are probably quite a few picks and builds that can excel in ranked play that the game just isn't ready for yet.
I've seen successful Blanc and Fizz jungles. Old Malz worked back in the day if you practiced first too. There are two options if this type of stuff, trolling or not, really bothers someone. Mute everyone and just move on to the next game. Quit LoL. Words don't affect the game and he game will never change to suit the players. Either adapt or leave. MF was kind of a gimmick mid for a while. It's also a thing where something may work, but other champs work better. Lulu or Ori supports are a good example. They're far stronger miss and were retuned a while back for those roles.
: And then I better log into League and play another ranked game before the season ends. Just one more. One more...
I submitted a ticket to have my game account deleted. Ruot sent me an email asking how well they resolved my ticket. Don't know. Never tried to login to the game again. I love LoL. It's a fantastic game. Trying to get a good match was so painful that it wasn't worth it though. 1 good game in 5 wasn't a great experience.
: The Ekko whine on these boards is killing me. A subpar champion but FOTM balance whine cause it's the hip thing to do. He's not good. Honestly.
That's what the boards do. If everyone spent the same amount of time playing the game that do on the boards, the level of play across the board would improve dramatically. It's easier to blame others rather than reflecting on ones own faults. For example, sure Yasuo needs to be patched, but teams with Yasuo still lose 47% of the time. He's not unbeatable. People used to complain non-stop about Fizz ... and will again. If you have a team without CC, Fizz (and Blanc, Zed, etc) can be very annoying. Run Fizz into a Naut team and you'll look pretty stupid though. Think about what counters Yas instead of expecting the game to change to suit you. Same goes for Ekko and every other champion.
: *going to main support
I tried that too after solo q got removed. I like playing support, but not 100% of the time. I wish that instead of fill, there were a random option. Letting players specialize in a single role weakens the entire player base.
Herim (NA)
: I'm so tired of the "it's normals/aram" excuse
Riot balances around platinum. Norms have never mattered to them. The irony is that before I quit, solo q norms with everyone muted was the most enjoyable way to play the game. The game itself is incredibly fun. Playing with people that would play a pick up game of basketball by throwing the ball into the stands is an awful experience.
: On the surrender point, I've always wondered what would happen if you couldn't surrender while dead. If you had to wait those twenty seconds (or whatever) to consider it and _then_ after you spawn at the fountain you could call a vote. There are too many people, who in the middle of a prolonged teamfight, die and give up then call for a surrender vote. _Right as I trying my hardest_ to turn things around, I've got to (1) be distracted with a surrender vote, and (2) be distracted with voting 'no' because I can't know how emotionally unstable my teammates are and it seems that an initial 'no' influences people who are on the fence. You would still be able to call for a vote every 3 minutes, just not right after you die and get emotional.
This certainly happens, but the issue is that someone has to carry the weak link when they behind like -70 cs and is 0/5. That's a huge negative that someone else has to carry. So, think about it this way. Is there someone who can carry weak player and what would that look like? I can't carry someone that far behind and turtling for 30 mins is far worse than just moving on to a new game. Toss the 10-2 in a poker hand to play more hands. The one time you win with it isn't worth the opportunity cost of all the other games you could've played. Even the pros rarely carry someone that far behind. Look at Dyrus's and Huni's failures.
: Maybe Riot should actually show who the premades are on the loading screen. That would help me know if I'm vs a team of 5 or If the premade jungler will camp me. How do you know if you're vs premades (club tags I assume?)
Same reason they stopped showing ribbons and mastery. Playing with 4 people who picked first time champs vs a team of rank 5 mastery opponents didn't inspire a lot of confidence. The irony is that websites and addons give you that info anyway. When you actually see how messed up match making is, you'll quit too. 1 fun game out of 5 isn't woth it whether you feed or stomp.
: I have come to the conclusion that too high of a majority of the people who play ranked games at bronze-silver and I am sure, even sometimes gold elo do not actually differentiate between Ranked and Unranked games. In other words, they play ranked games with little to no care or effort, when they should leave that mindset in aarams or even unranked ques. There needs to be a better system of punishment for players who are intentionally and obviously (consistently) not putting forth effort in ranked games. I am talking about players who not only feed, but also players who have obviously given up well before a game would end. Do not neglect lower elos, because I can tell you from personal experience that the lower the elo the worse this problem is - which makes climbing a living nightmare {{champion:56}} Why should players who are trying their damndest in any elo be penalized for players who type in chat "gg" at 10 minutes after giving away 4 kills? I don't understand why I need to lose lp because of these people. Ty
Great observation. Lower ranks encourage cheesing to get to higher ranks. Lower ranks are like playing poker with people who just go all in and don't play the game. You can still be successful, but the overall all experience varies widely between total suck and omg, that was awesome. I think what many of us want is just a more consistently good experience. Before wasn't perfect, but at least it was playable at those levels. Dynamic queue was awful. The new match making system is awful too and much of the same problem. It dumbs down the game and encourages players to specialize in one role and not learn the entire game. Too often in many societies, we look to fix problems through new systems rather than helping educate and raise people up. Smarter players = better community. Raises the floor instead of lowering the cap.
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