: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=juZP1sNz,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-11-16T15:22:36.313+0000) > > Karma's shield once had a 80% AP ratio and you could shield creeps, already giving her the potential of miss shield because it can also be leveled 6 times. Riot kept that identity by giving her a even bigger shield value. [You may want to reconsider this statement.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cvpsI7H0gmApJn2LOTda1ukCM63E2wf-XRc99J9HbF8/edit?usp=sharing) >They removed her dmg which pissed of a lot of low elo players because it was an easy source of dmg for them with very low counterplay. You either have no clue what are you talking about or you never played during shieldbomb era (3.5 - 5.10). Using RE on minions post 3.5 (aka relaunch) was such an awful waste. It was easy damage with no counter play BUT if you wasted your R like this you'd be dead or your enemy have 0 clue about cooldowns or have a hard time engaging on you for some reason. Also damage was incredibly low (60/140/220/300 + 60% AP) especially in 1v1 scenarios. Even RW was better with its bonus damage since it dealt significantly more (RQ levels) single target damage AND healed you. > Ivern's shield has a small cooldown before blowing up, Sion too. Karma's shield was instant with a very high AOE. Maybe that's cause you're comparing basic abilities to R empowered abilities?? Both Ivern and Sion have shieldbomb without them using their ultimate. Why wouldnt her shieldbomb be stronger that theirs?? > Riot didn't completely removed her signature spell, they reworked it to make it bearable. This is XD worthy. If they reworked it to make it bearable they failed miserably cause it's RE that's the biggest issue due to overcharging her numbers. **Her RE is still considered problematic** after: - E / RE shield nerfs (5.10, 6.15, 7.12, 8.12) - RE ms nerf (from flat 60% to scaling with E | patch 6.15) - RE aoe shield (from 50% to 30% | patch 7.12) - E / RE shield duration (from 4 to 2.5 | patch 8.12) Also let me quote the 5.10 patchnotes: > (...) Additionally, removing damage on R-E means we can up the ante on Gathering Fire's cooldown reduction without seeing Karma throw out a Mantra'd E every 6 seconds in clumpy team fights. Now she can spam it even more often even without passive interacting with RE XD
> [{quoted}](name=Rakshasa Ranja,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=juZP1sNz,comment-id=0001000100000001,timestamp=2018-11-19T23:07:35.153+0000) > > [You may want to reconsider this statement.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cvpsI7H0gmApJn2LOTda1ukCM63E2wf-XRc99J9HbF8/edit?usp=sharing) > > You either have no clue what are you talking about or you never played during shieldbomb era (3.5 - 5.10). Using RE on minions post 3.5 (aka relaunch) was such an awful waste. It was easy damage with no counter play BUT if you wasted your R like this you'd be dead or your enemy have 0 clue about cooldowns or have a hard time engaging on you for some reason. Also damage was incredibly low (60/140/220/300 + 60% AP) especially in 1v1 scenarios. Even RW was better with its bonus damage since it dealt significantly more (RQ levels) single target damage AND healed you. > > Maybe that's cause you're comparing basic abilities to R empowered abilities?? Both Ivern and Sion have shieldbomb without them using their ultimate. Why wouldnt her shieldbomb be stronger that theirs?? > > This is XD worthy. If they reworked it to make it bearable they failed miserably cause it's RE that's the biggest issue due to overcharging her numbers. **Her RE is still considered problematic** after: > - E / RE shield nerfs (5.10, 6.15, 7.12, 8.12) > - RE ms nerf (from flat 60% to scaling with E | patch 6.15) > - RE aoe shield (from 50% to 30% | patch 7.12) > - E / RE shield duration (from 4 to 2.5 | patch 8.12) > > Also let me quote the 5.10 patchnotes: > > Now she can spam it even more often even without passive interacting with RE XD Lol. You're the one who might reconsider all of your statements. I was talking about the first Karma BEFORE PATCH 3.5. Her spells had 6 levels, she could hold 2 mantra charges and her shield had a 80% AP ratio. Her passive would increase her AP based on missing % HP up to 80 extra AP. That's where most of Karma's fan who loved her shieldbomb are talking about. Her shieldbomb since her rework AFTER patch 3.5 was beyond horrible. It dealt low dmg because it wasn't increased by her previous passive, and her AP ratio got lowered by over 30%. It was STILL a spell that couldn't be countered and was therefore PROBLEMATIC. Her R+E offered NOTHING but an explosion shield with mediocre dmg coupled with a very small speed increase for 1,25 second. On top of that, that shield movespeed had a drastic scalling movespeed going from 20% to 60% compared to right now which is 40% to 60%. Spells CAN'T BE INSTANT if you want a counterplay. Have you seen what Riot did to all spells lately ? Taric's stun now takes a while before detonating and you need to aim. Heimerdinger's missile now needs to AIM instead of hitting the nearest ennemies. Soraka's Q is now needs to be aimed instead of her previous Q. Evelynn's old Hate spike was automatically Hitting nearby ennemies. Now you need to aim the first shot And to answer your shield argument. EVERY champions who could shield their allies got nerfed; not just Karma. I'm specifically talking about Janna, Lulu, Orianna, Rakan, Janna's shield's cooldown got a 8 second increased on level 1 Most of the shields now last 1,5 to 2,5 seconds down from 5 Most of the shield's value got massively tuned down And that's because the game meta is constantly changing. Karma STILL retains as one of the champion with the highest shield value and lowest cooldown; thus keeping her title as Miss shield.
: Seems like Jax messed up then as all he would have ot do is use his E early in the fight or not at all so that he has it after Sion died - and negated all of his damage, getting off a stun and surviving. But yes, Glacial augment Sion is a thing and I've been against it a couple of times. It's pretty good on him.
> [{quoted}](name=SexualNuts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LbnQ9FEG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-19T08:50:25.179+0000) > > Seems like Jax messed up then as all he would have ot do is use his E early in the fight or not at all so that he has it after Sion died - and negated all of his damage, getting off a stun and surviving. > > But yes, Glacial augment Sion is a thing and I've been against it a couple of times. It's pretty good on him. That's what he did, but Sion was diving him under the tower. Plus he had a sunfire cape so he couldn't farm a bit without getting hurt. Whenever our Nidalee would try ganking for him, that Sion would just ultimate and run away. He was beyond tanky and even Nidalee couldn't help our top Sion had a potential of 4 slows. - Auto attack with glacial augment - quickly casting his axe - pushing a minion - Righteous glory Jax couldn't even farm a bit. There's no way he could have saved his counter E for Sion's passive
: > Now you're just being salty because that shield's dmg got removed. You guys don't even talk about her other spells and how it still keeps the spirit of the old Karma. Yes, I am salty about that. Have been, for over 3 years now. And yes "we guys" do talk about her tether-touch, her duality spells, her battlemage identity, her old lore, her lvl6 spells, her double mantra charges... Just because I did not mention it here _specifically_ doesn't mean I, or any other Karma fan, never talks about it. > All I can hear of is she's boring and dull. She still retains her Mantra, and teether identity AND she still has a shield ability. First of all, Meddler himself called her reworked (3.5) version _"in many ways a pretty bland [champion]"_ and _"not sufficiently satisfying or distinct"_. Second of all, her mantra shifted from a secondary ressource that added opposite effects to a simple cooldown based spell empowering feature. Basically a machine gun version of Heimer, and that's a completely different thing. Old tether was creative and awkward, new tether is atrociously uninspired and... a shield without shieldbomb is about as much "retaining" her identity about it, as Lulu or Janna have stolen it. I.e. not in the slightest. > They removed her dmg which pissed of a lot of low elo players because it was an easy source of dmg for them with very low counterplay. If Karma ever poked you with RE she used the cooldown of her self-heal, self-shield and (in 3.5-5.10) her MS buff. If this isn't an invitation for all-inning her, you don't understand how cooldowns and counterplay works. > Karma's old passive was Ryze's old passive. Yet, no one talked about that but it was also part of her identity. Yes, yes we did. The Karma mains and NeuroCat talked about it on Discord. Repeatedly. > Riot didn't completely removed her signature spell, they reworked it to make it bearable. She had a shieldspell that dealt AoE damage for 5 years. It was her one most definining and versatile damage spell. Now she doesn't. They didn't add a timer. They didn't add a travel time. The didn't nerf the damage. No tweaking or adapting. They removed it. Rick did. For a stupid fucking reason. > Ryze, Evelynn, GP, Galio I am not gonna defend their work on Ryze. Also I don't know why I should. Can I not be opposed to multiple reworks? Yes, GP got NEW stuff. They built on his charakter and added a new and unique mechanic. That's good. And yup, they fucked up Galio as well. It's not that his old self didn't need a rework and new one is bad champ or anything, just as a rework it sucks (same as Aatrox, for example). > Don't think that I'm not for a Karma rework. I've been playing Karma since 2011 and my favourite spell was actually her (Q) Heavenly waves because it was easy to hit with and it offered some healing. I don't think liking a spell because it's easy to hit is a good thing, but I won't&can't tell you what to like. I liked RQ because it required clever positioning, but I prefer new Q over old Q. I have been advocating for a mixture of the new and old Q/RQ for a long time now. Make current RQ ground targeted, give it old RQ's heal. Done. Better spell, can still poke for New Karma fans, can still heal, requires positioning and awareness and works way better on a double explosion, since allies can actively seek it etc. > Do I like her Soulflare ? Yes I do, and Karma is STILL my most played champion. No idea what you are getting at here, but... good for you?
> [{quoted}](name=SilverSquid,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=juZP1sNz,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-17T07:21:18.383+0000) > > Yes, I am salty about that. Have been, for over 3 years now. > And yes "we guys" do talk about her tether-touch, her duality spells, her battlemage identity, her old lore, her lvl6 spells, her double mantra charges... Just because I did not mention it here _specifically_ doesn't mean I, or any other Karma fan, never talks about it. > > First of all, Meddler himself called her reworked (3.5) version _"in many ways a pretty bland [champion]"_ and _"not sufficiently satisfying or distinct"_. > > Second of all, her mantra shifted from a secondary ressource that added opposite effects to a simple cooldown based spell empowering feature. Basically a machine gun version of Heimer, and that's a completely different thing. Old tether was creative and awkward, new tether is atrociously uninspired and... a shield without shieldbomb is about as much "retaining" her identity about it, as Lulu or Janna have stolen it. I.e. not in the slightest. > > If Karma ever poked you with RE she used the cooldown of her self-heal, self-shield and (in 3.5-5.10) her MS buff. If this isn't an invitation for all-inning her, you don't understand how cooldowns and counterplay works. > > Yes, yes we did. The Karma mains and NeuroCat talked about it on Discord. Repeatedly. > > She had a shieldspell that dealt AoE damage for 5 years. > It was her one most definining and versatile damage spell. > Now she doesn't. > > They didn't add a timer. > They didn't add a travel time. > The didn't nerf the damage. > No tweaking or adapting. > They removed it. > Rick did. For a stupid fucking reason. > > I am not gonna defend their work on Ryze. Also I don't know why I should. Can I not be opposed to multiple reworks? > Yes, GP got NEW stuff. They built on his charakter and added a new and unique mechanic. That's good. > And yup, they fucked up Galio as well. It's not that his old self didn't need a rework and new one is bad champ or anything, just as a rework it sucks (same as Aatrox, for example). > > I don't think liking a spell because it's easy to hit is a good thing, but I won't&can't tell you what to like. > I liked RQ because it required clever positioning, but I prefer new Q over old Q. > I have been advocating for a mixture of the new and old Q/RQ for a long time now. > Make current RQ ground targeted, give it old RQ's heal. Done. Better spell, can still poke for New Karma fans, can still heal, requires positioning and awareness and works way better on a double explosion, since allies can actively seek it etc. > > No idea what you are getting at here, but... good for you? I'm not sure about which version of Karma you're talking about for Duality, but the current Karma is way better for dueling if you compare her to the first Karma. All what you people want from Karma is her shieldbomb making you blind to all other changes she's had in multiple patches. When her rework came in, her win rate was beyond horrendous. All of her spells felt weak, even with her shieldbomb because of her old passive being replaced. The cause ? she couldn't spam enough mantra to get her effect in and her empowered effects were all a bit unsatisfying. Now Riot did a big cleanup on Karma, and gave her more identity when she uses a mantra charge with each of her spells and instead of all of her choices giving her extra dmg, it could provide either a higher CC, DMG or shield which I do think is pretty clear. i'm repeating this again and again, her Shield bomb was PROBLEMATIC. If they added a timer, it wouldn't feel like an ultimate If they would nerf dmg, ppl would be complaining about how bad that choice is. If they would touch anything from the shieldbomb, it would become too powerful or awful. Like the same as a Bronze Heimerdinger player would do, They would only use his ultimate with Q even when they have the opportunity to use R+W or R+E This would be problematic with Support Karma if all they would think of is R+E. Rick removed it and it allowed Karma to have redistribute buffs elsewhere. She's still one of the top champion whenever it comes to shielding someone. Janna's early shield got a major nerf. Lulu too. Karma has the lowest cooldown of all shielding AND the highest potential shield value from any support champions. And what I meant when I said that I like Soulflare is even though I prefer her previous Q, I'm not going crazy about it. Riot did A LOT of changes on champions that I like, but I still play them; - I loved Evelynn's first and second ultimate it was simple for me and was a killer move. Now even though her current ultimate is powerful, it's more of an escape // execution tool which I don't like - Riot reworked Miss Fortune, I loved going AP with Miss Fortune mixed with her previous W that would deal magic dmg and grievous wound. I would combine it with Malady, Lich bane and Nashor's tooth - Heimerdinger once had a braindead W which would hit the nearest 3 ennemies with a rocket. That was my absolute favourite ability from him.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=juZP1sNz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-14T14:34:26.535+0000) > > Riot mentionned it multiple times, > > Giving back Karma's shield bomb would be excesively too powerful and her other spells would suffer major nerfs in order to balance her out which would eventually make her a shield bot bomber again. > > By removing her shield bomb, it allows Riot to put more power in other spells. I don't care how much power they could pour into Thresh's kit if they just removed the lantern, I don't want champions to lose their signature spells they had for years. Build on unique concepts, don't remove them and excuse it with added power.
> [{quoted}](name=SilverSquid,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=juZP1sNz,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-11-15T22:43:38.747+0000) > > I don't care how much power they could pour into Thresh's kit if they just removed the lantern, > I don't want champions to lose their signature spells they had for years. > > Build on unique concepts, > don't remove them and excuse it with added power. Now you're just being salty because that **shield's dmg got removed**. You guys don't even talk about her other spells and how it still keeps the spirit of the old Karma. All I can hear of is she's boring and dull. She still retains her Mantra, and teether identity AND she still has a shield ability. Karma's shield once had a 80% AP ratio and you could shield creeps, already giving her the potential of miss shield because it can also be leveled 6 times. Riot kept that identity by giving her a even bigger shield value. They removed her dmg which pissed of a lot of low elo players because it was an easy source of dmg for them with very low counterplay. Ivern's shield has a small cooldown before blowing up, Sion too. Karma's shield was instant with a very high AOE. Karma's old passive was Ryze's old passive. Yet, no one talked about that but it was also part of her identity. Riot didn't completely removed her signature spell, they reworked it to make it bearable. They did the same with Soraka's previous Starcall which didn't even required to aim. What about Ryze's old ultimate ? They tried to keep it twice in 2 reworks and it still didn't work. I could also be talking about one of Evelynn's old ultimate; Agony embrace mixed with the infamous Deathfire grasp item. The old Gangplank was pretty easy to play around. Now Riot added one of his most iconic spells; barrels. Galio's old ultimate was also his signature spell? They completely removed it and changed it. Don't think that I'm not for a Karma rework. I've been playing Karma since 2011 and my favourite spell was actually her (Q) Heavenly waves because it was easy to hit with and it offered some healing. Do I like her Soulflare ? Yes I do, and Karma is STILL my most played champion.
Vealerius (EUNE)
: Item Concept: Hextech Electrolens
Why would you call this item ''hextech'' when there's no hextech revolver in the recipe? The fact that this item gives everything a mana mage would want and on top of that give a 15% increased cast range, it would make this item MANDATORY in every build possible. Thus, very bad as it would not worsen the current situation where mages are bound to buy specific items. Concept is not bad, but problem is making this item almost mandatory for every mages.
Neriticc (EUW)
: Tryndamere is very fun to play against.
What ppl don't understand is whenever they make these statements, chances are that the ennemy is fed to hell and there is no way you can solo that champ. I could be comparing your post to all fed assassins on how they 1 shot you in a matter of a second I could be comparing your post to all fed bruisers and tanks that just won't die I could be comparing you post to all fed mages that removes 80% of your health with a single spell ANY FED CHAMPION is not fun to play against, some more than others.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=juZP1sNz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-14T14:34:26.535+0000) > > Riot mentionned it multiple times, > > Giving back Karma's shield bomb would be excesively too powerful and her other spells would suffer major nerfs in order to balance her out which would eventually make her a shield bot bomber again. > > By removing her shield bomb, it allows Riot to put more power in other spells. It's not like she began to be problematic **after** shieldbomb removal and supercharging her passive (due to shieldbomb removal). She was only buffed pre 5.10 and 5.10 was pretty much relocating her power (passive buff, RW damage --> bonus root, RE damage --> bonus shield). Also, 5.10 pretty much killed mage karma since it removed bonus damage from 2 out of 3 her mantra choices. Her passive reduces double the cooldown now in comparison to pre 5.10 (shieldbomb removal) kit. Adding massive main target shield, good AoE shield and significant haste with so ridicoulus mantra uptime is straight up asking for problems. People were saying this 3 years ago (which you can read yourself in 5.10 patch notes yourself) and exeactly that happened. Even with shieldbomb you couldnt just straight up spam RE even if you land damage portion of it on all 5 enemies. with 2s/1s reduction on her passive RE would reduce up to 10 sec of her R CD. Q would be additional 2/4 sec and W would be another 2/4/6 sec. 10+4+6 = 20s in total **if you land 2 man Q, full W (3 ticks) and 5 man RE on enemy team (which was very hard if you werent steamrolling into them)** Landing all of that is hard. Q is the easiest since you just wait for enemy team to clump together. If you walked towards enemy team with W linked to land 2nd and 3rd tick enemy team would blow you up. 5 man RE (on enemy team) was rarely happenin since its such a perfect scenario it screams "RARE". RQ and RE were similar in passive efficiency (RQ being easier since you dont need ally), RW was the weakest. Also, her 1v1 or 1v2 are way stronger now that they were pre 5.10. You get way more cdr from your base abilities and before only your Q, RQ and RE could proc passive on multiple targets. Karma way less of an issue pre 5.10 than she is now. Karma will be much more of an issue post her mini-rework than she is now: - Frontloading RQ damage and making RQ detonation even more insignificant | Everybody likes no-counterplay damage - Enemy RW damage and scalings boost | Her tether is now 2 procs (cast and end) instead of being a 6 ticks DoT like it was long time ago making it way easier to land more damage (cast alone is half the damage and you could negate alot of damage by breaking the tether before a.k.a. counterplay) - Ally RW chain cc or damage nuking with (almost) instant double casts - RE shield buffs in skirmishes making her early/mid game RE stronger
> [{quoted}](name=Rakshasa Ranja,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=juZP1sNz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-14T23:44:32.122+0000) > > It's not like she began to be problematic **after** shieldbomb removal and supercharging her passive (due to shieldbomb removal). > She was only buffed pre 5.10 and 5.10 was pretty much relocating her power (passive buff, RW damage --> bonus root, RE damage --> bonus shield). Also, 5.10 pretty much killed mage karma since it removed bonus damage from 2 out of 3 her mantra choices. > > Her passive reduces double the cooldown now in comparison to pre 5.10 (shieldbomb removal) kit. Adding massive main target shield, good AoE shield and significant haste with so ridicoulus mantra uptime is straight up asking for problems. People were saying this 3 years ago (which you can read yourself in 5.10 patch notes yourself) and exeactly that happened. > > Even with shieldbomb you couldnt just straight up spam RE even if you land damage portion of it on all 5 enemies. > with 2s/1s reduction on her passive RE would reduce up to 10 sec of her R CD. Q would be additional 2/4 sec and W would be another 2/4/6 sec. > 10+4+6 = 20s in total > **if you land 2 man Q, full W (3 ticks) and 5 man RE on enemy team (which was very hard if you werent steamrolling into them)** > Landing all of that is hard. Q is the easiest since you just wait for enemy team to clump together. If you walked towards enemy team with W linked to land 2nd and 3rd tick enemy team would blow you up. 5 man RE (on enemy team) was rarely happenin since its such a perfect scenario it screams "RARE". RQ and RE were similar in passive efficiency (RQ being easier since you dont need ally), RW was the weakest. Also, her 1v1 or 1v2 are way stronger now that they were pre 5.10. You get way more cdr from your base abilities and before only your Q, RQ and RE could proc passive on multiple targets. > > Karma way less of an issue pre 5.10 than she is now. > Karma will be much more of an issue post her mini-rework than she is now: > - Frontloading RQ damage and making RQ detonation even more insignificant | Everybody likes no-counterplay damage > - Enemy RW damage and scalings boost | Her tether is now 2 procs (cast and end) instead of being a 6 ticks DoT like it was long time ago making it way easier to land more damage (cast alone is half the damage and you could negate alot of damage by breaking the tether before a.k.a. counterplay) > - Ally RW chain cc or damage nuking with (almost) instant double casts > - RE shield buffs in skirmishes making her early/mid game RE stronger The point of Riot wasn't how frequently you could spam that bombshield combo. It was actually how hard there is a counter and actually not get hit by that source of dmg. Ivern's shield takes a little time to explode, Sion too. But in the case of Karma, it would be instant and there was no counterplay. Given the huge AOE and potential dmg that shield bomb offered, it would be too powerful and Riot couldn't give her more potentials in other spells.
: What I Wanted For Karma That Meddler and NeuroCat Didn't Want
Riot mentionned it multiple times, Giving back Karma's shield bomb would be excesively too powerful and her other spells would suffer major nerfs in order to balance her out which would eventually make her a shield bot bomber again. By removing her shield bomb, it allows Riot to put more power in other spells.
: Have you ever EVER played Karma? I'm not hyping numbers. She literally bursts up to 730 Move speed near full build, without activating surplus move speed bonuses. It decays quick enough, but that's where the burst gets up to. I run around on a base 490-520 move speed. Celerity. Magical Footwear. Sometimes Medallion. Nimbus Cloak. items. It all stacks. {{item:3174}} + {{item:3504}} + {{item:2065}} = what base Mana Regen? Oh right..... 250%. That's 250/25 = 10 *5 AP = + 50 AP. Athene's Base AP is 30. That puts the minimal amount at 80 AP. If I also go {{item:3311}} and forgoe the Medallion (usually support) That's 90 AP. ---------------- The game in question you are referring to I was 11/2/20. Kills on my team were 58. That's 31/58 = What? Oh. 53.44%. Who fed the most on the other team? Oh Right. The mid Fizz I stomped, the Udyr I stomped, and the Kai Sai I stomped. Yeah. Zilean was probably a joke and my team did have an easy time of him. But it was me killing all the actual momentous champs. Fizz kills: Compare My champion kill map to Fizz's Champion Death map. They are identical. Except reversed. The cluster in which I have a ton of kills, he has a ton of deaths. I had spread participation in all lanes down the river, but 7 of my kills were concentrated in Mid. Fizz on the other hand has 2 kills Bot lane, 1 kill mid, and one top. He died mid lane 9 times..... I was part of every single one of them. I also First blooded Brand, and was part of every objective. ---------- You're picking apart the one game where I don't have multiple move speed mage items to say I don't build move speed. You have to be adaptive to teams. In that game, I needed SV to counter fizz hard. That is all that is. Check my other Karma games. --------- Lich bane on mobility with Karma does more damage to a turret than a Death cap, is safer, more reliable. You can always try to come up with singular arguments within a whole, but it doesn't nothing to contradict the argument that I'm more well rounded, do more overall damage, and carry more than your builds do. You don't have room to build 7-8 items. (I didn't need Lich bane except as an afterthought I was already winning hard). ---------- How does a Fizz who has already Trickstered and can't break the leash or an Udyr who runs slower than you..... going to break the Leash? Oh. The only ways they can break it: Kill me. Which I won't let them. --------- I don't need to group as Karma. i solo her. I am not a E bot. https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2908186473/243999882?tab=overview eh wth. I I'll record the part i'm talking about. (Sorry I don't care about editing, headphones, whatever. This was this morning. Loss, but pretty much a 1v5 too) https://youtu.be/Acnw2vMnqV4 -------------- The game we're talking about is buried on op.gg, so I can't tell what runes I was using, but...... 1. The AP items alone make up 180 AP. 2. 20 AP from Sorcery/Insight (Net 200 AP) Gathering Storm got up to +40 (Net 240 AP) Some 27 AP in Celerity. We had an Infernal Drake. So...... Base of about 288 AP, and some 320 AP when E'd or R'd.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gN1QyoBR,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-13T02:13:44.902+0000) > > Have you ever EVER played Karma? > > I'm not hyping numbers. > She literally bursts up to 730 Move speed near full build, without activating surplus move speed bonuses. It decays quick enough, but that's where the burst gets up to. > > I run around on a base 490-520 move speed. Celerity. Magical Footwear. Sometimes Medallion. Nimbus Cloak. items. It all stacks. > > {{item:3174}} + {{item:3504}} + {{item:2065}} = what base Mana Regen? Oh right..... 250%. That's 250/25 = 10 *5 AP = + 50 AP. Athene's Base AP is 30. > > That puts the minimal amount at 80 AP. If I also go {{item:3311}} and forgoe the Medallion (usually support) That's 90 AP. > > ---------------- > > The game in question you are referring to I was 11/2/20. Kills on my team were 58. That's 31/58 = What? Oh. 53.44%. > > Who fed the most on the other team? > > Oh Right. The mid Fizz I stomped, the Udyr I stomped, and the Kai Sai I stomped. Yeah. Zilean was probably a joke and my team did have an easy time of him. But it was me killing all the actual momentous champs. > > Fizz kills: Compare My champion kill map to Fizz's Champion Death map. They are identical. Except reversed. The cluster in which I have a ton of kills, he has a ton of deaths. I had spread participation in all lanes down the river, but 7 of my kills were concentrated in Mid. Fizz on the other hand has 2 kills Bot lane, 1 kill mid, and one top. He died mid lane 9 times..... I was part of every single one of them. > > I also First blooded Brand, and was part of every objective. > > ---------- > > You're picking apart the one game where I don't have multiple move speed mage items to say I don't build move speed. You have to be adaptive to teams. In that game, I needed SV to counter fizz hard. That is all that is. Check my other Karma games. > > --------- > > Lich bane on mobility with Karma does more damage to a turret than a Death cap, is safer, more reliable. You can always try to come up with singular arguments within a whole, but it doesn't nothing to contradict the argument that I'm more well rounded, do more overall damage, and carry more than your builds do. You don't have room to build 7-8 items. > > (I didn't need Lich bane except as an afterthought I was already winning hard). > > ---------- > > How does a Fizz who has already Trickstered and can't break the leash or an Udyr who runs slower than you..... going to break the Leash? Oh. The only ways they can break it: Kill me. Which I won't let them. > > --------- > > I don't need to group as Karma. i solo her. I am not a E bot. > > https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2908186473/243999882?tab=overview > eh wth. I I'll record the part i'm talking about. > > (Sorry I don't care about editing, headphones, whatever. This was this morning. Loss, but pretty much a 1v5 too) > > https://youtu.be/Acnw2vMnqV4 > > -------------- > > > The game we're talking about is buried on op.gg, so I can't tell what runes I was using, but...... > > 1. The AP items alone make up 180 AP. > > 2. 20 AP from Sorcery/Insight (Net 200 AP) > > Gathering Storm got up to +40 (Net 240 AP) > > Some 27 AP in Celerity. > > We had an Infernal Drake. > > > So...... Base of about 288 AP, and some 320 AP when E'd or R'd. To make it clear, i'm talking about the game you linked in your main comment. You had NO shurelia or Frostfang. So let's forget that extra 30 AP you can get with Athene Game lasted 31 minutes. So I assume that you had 24 AP from gathering storm for most of your kills If you took celerity instead of transcendance, you literally just wasted 10% extra cooldown stats that's worth nothing That AP value you claim is still being far ahead of the actual value even with infernal dragon. Your AP MIGHT fluctuate with all those boosts from your shield, nimbus cloak etc. But that is the most unreliable AP you can get and you don't benefit from it again in a while. In the game you just posted as a ''proof'' of your build, you BARELY used that lich bane auto attack which is literally the main goal of getting that item. Wasting stats again. You were beyond tanky in that game, yet you stood behind most of the fight, shielding yourself instead of your allies and missed several Q's during the most important part of the teamfight. The game you posted is literally on a silver 3-4-5 ELO rank. Post me something in diamond elo from your main account with that same build and see how you perform. I have played over 2700 Ranked Karma games since season 2 and made it to master in season 6. So I do believe I know what i'm talking about saying this build might not work.
: Luls. 1. I'm Diamond II on my actual account. 2. Not on Medallion. Medallion suffers no consequences and gives you 10 extra base move speed, CDR, and even GOOD csers still only have about an average 60-70% Capture rate of CS. Bad Csers push 40-50%. You can also intentionally stack it, since Large minions are guaranteed to drop a coin. Just kill the small minions but leave the large ones to the coin. 50% of the time, it's Gold (Not saying it's perfect but you're going to lose some large ones anyways in competitive play, because your opponent is waiting to harass you) Try it sometime. A good laner who captures 70% CS will still have a Medallion charged by about 13-15 minutes. Meaning, until you need your last item, you have 3 extra wards to carry, a move speed boost, and cheap CDR. 3. I don't get Mag penetration every game, but I do make room for it. My team was ahead because I existed. A good Karma is a powerful thing..... 4. My build is not AP or Tank or Support. It's Move speed. Move speed on Karma is how you win more games. You use that move speed to: -Dodge skill shots point blank. -100% Secure W Second procs. -Get a larger kill participation -Adequately auto attack to proc your passive quicker -Charge Season 8 Celerity to add AP (Especially with Nimbus Cloak) Lich bane, Censer, and Athene's are not contradictory. The support items are Stand alone. Give substantial amounts of AP, while fueling my move speed, increasing my shields, my heals (Athen's on these builds is something like a 90 AP item). The goal of a Lich bane is and always HAS been to kill turrets, not champions. This build on average has about 385-440 AP by mid game. That chunks turrets pretty hard. It hurts champions too, but I do more damage in 5 seconds than a full AP Karma with 900 AP does, because I proc Lich. have AP boosts on move speed, which temporarily jump my AP up to 480-550. I literally have 730-760 Move speed before considering Shurelya or R > E. it's an orber's dream. P.S. If a game goes long enough to really consider needing a different build, I usually have 3-4k gold sitting around!
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gN1QyoBR,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-11-09T18:47:54.864+0000) > > Luls. > > 1. I'm Diamond II on my actual account. > > 2. Not on Medallion. Medallion suffers no consequences and gives you 10 extra base move speed, CDR, and even GOOD csers still only have about an average 60-70% Capture rate of CS. Bad Csers push 40-50%. You can also intentionally stack it, since Large minions are guaranteed to drop a coin. Just kill the small minions but leave the large ones to the coin. 50% of the time, it's Gold (Not saying it's perfect but you're going to lose some large ones anyways in competitive play, because your opponent is waiting to harass you) > > Try it sometime. A good laner who captures 70% CS will still have a Medallion charged by about 13-15 minutes. Meaning, until you need your last item, you have 3 extra wards to carry, a move speed boost, and cheap CDR. > > 3. I don't get Mag penetration every game, but I do make room for it. > My team was ahead because I existed. A good Karma is a powerful thing..... > > 4. My build is not AP or Tank or Support. It's Move speed. Move speed on Karma is how you win more games. You use that move speed to: > > -Dodge skill shots point blank. > -100% Secure W Second procs. > -Get a larger kill participation > -Adequately auto attack to proc your passive quicker > -Charge Season 8 Celerity to add AP (Especially with Nimbus Cloak) > > Lich bane, Censer, and Athene's are not contradictory. The support items are Stand alone. Give substantial amounts of AP, while fueling my move speed, increasing my shields, my heals (Athen's on these builds is something like a 90 AP item). > > The goal of a Lich bane is and always HAS been to kill turrets, not champions. This build on average has about 385-440 AP by mid game. That chunks turrets pretty hard. It hurts champions too, but I do more damage in 5 seconds than a full AP Karma with 900 AP does, because I proc Lich. have AP boosts on move speed, which temporarily jump my AP up to 480-550. > > I literally have 730-760 Move speed before considering Shurelya or R > E. it's an orber's dream. > > P.S. If a game goes long enough to really consider needing a different build, I usually have 3-4k gold sitting around! Then pls show me a game of Karma with that build in your Diamond II account and win a match because I have a major issue here trying to believe you. You are completely hyping all the numbers up to make your build feel like it's the bomb. Shurelia + your shield + all your bonus movespeed is in NO way going to bring you up to 730-750 movespeed uneless you're in base with that fountain speed boost. Athene on theses buildis is not something like 90 AP, it's more like 60 HP with your ardent. Otherwise, athene alone gives 50 AP. I still keep my argument saying that Medallion is major bad for you as a first item because not only you don't get any bonus when you kill cs, but you're penalised by having less HP, dmg and mana regen which is crucial during early game Your team was not ahead because of you. You had less than 50% kill participation. Your build was definetly support + tank. You had a Spirit visage which would provide tankiness and healing. You also had ardent censer which is a support item. If you really wanted movespeed, you could have chosen Mobility boots or shurelia which you didn't get. Here, let me remind me your build for that game : 1. Ninja Tabi -- TANK item 2. Spirit Visage - TANK item 3. Athene - SUPPORT 60 AP 4. Ardent censer - SUPPORT 60 AP 5. Lich bane - Offensive 80 AP 6. Medallion - SUPPORT If your main goal of getting lich bane was to kill towers, you got that item WAY to late to even do anything. And by the way, if you actually had Rabaddon, your auto attacks would even do more dmg to towers. That W 100% secure doesn't mean anything. Smart ennemies can still get away from that link. I can't believe you said that when you're diamond. You don't get larger kill participation with Karma when you have a lot of movespeed. You are generally always grouped with someone with Karma, so you'll automatically get kill participations. How in the hell getting lich bane makes your recharge your passive quicker?? You still do a single auto attack reducing your mantra's cooldown. It's not because you hit him with that lich bane procs that it's going to make you recharge your passive quicker. Doing the math, you barely got over 200 AP with that full build. in NO WAY you're about 385-440 AP like you said. That AP boost from your movespeed will basically give you 10-30 AP. You literally added about 100 AP in your calculations because of your movespeed. With all that being said, I don't believe you
: Disgusting levels of "Smug" towards new players.
I've learnt to never talk in games and maybe just use 2-3 emoticons per game. Sometime, a nice person in the beginning can quickly turn aggresive towards you when you do something bad. Aggresive person can mellow down when you do good moves. Anyway, I got raged so many time since season 3 that I feel like i'm completely immune to any insults now.
: Tip for people who find AP assassin mids frustrating: Play Karma
I'm not sure if I should take this post seriously or not. I dare you to take this build and bring it to diamond elo. Then i'll see if this build is legit. I see multiple problem with your build : * Taking medallion as your first item when you're not a support is now bad. You won't recoup on your gold unless you are a very bad farmer. * No single magic penetration items coupled with low AP items is going to cause you major trouble during late game. You are lucky that none of them had solid resistance and your team was ahead. * Having lich bane on Karma coupled with 2 support ap items contradict your build. Either you stay behind helping your allies and be safe, or you go all in. * Cheap items early won't save you from late game. That build is meant to last for 20-30 minutes games. Imagine if you had that build during a 60 minutes match.
: > [{quoted}](name=nobotninja,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RGc6A0OH,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2018-11-09T04:31:12.099+0000) > > Mate... > http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=asianbichyqueen > In your normal games (which you admittedly don't even care about), you only play {{champion:99}} or {{champion:25}} - you either play Lux as mostly a support, or mid. While in your ranked games you are opting for AP assassins and have a pretty good winrate in all of them. > https://imgur.com/TWLBk3P > > When you play {{champion:99}}, your duo-partner is mostly there playing {{champion:145}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:43}}. > http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=asiansexyqueen > > > You two have around the same rating. The difference is, she went from Silver 3 to Gold 5 in in a week, while you did that in 2 days. > Just on a side-note, your friend has 200-something {{champion:21}} games, plays {{champion:103}} {{champion:43}}, but has a 100% winrate on {{champion:104}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:35}}. When she plays them, she just happen to swap her Summoner Spells as well. You guys clearly have no problem with muscle memory and player-specific keybindings. > https://imgur.com/Krdlpb8 > https://imgur.com/2Q7Pt3o > https://imgur.com/gF67LO2 > https://imgur.com/sJODHT2 > https://imgur.com/y8cbieO > https://imgur.com/E5yuGjB > > You absolutely destroy people in your ranked {{champion:38}} games with win streaks, but you don't bring the same performance with your {{champion:99}} as consistently. > https://imgur.com/NrFZbEn > https://imgur.com/XmBf7im > https://imgur.com/IkcM0UD > > It's a bit suspicious and questionable. This is just from 5 mins on your profile. > > You talk about the spirit of competitive e-sports, yet you 1, don't even care about your normal games 2, your performance and activity (and your friend's as well) seem at the very least questionable. If you can check my friend account I am sure you are good at checking at this, yes I do play lux a lot coz I really enjoy playing it and also I actually don’t usually use Mog that much. i also use another few champ a lot in this account e.g Sona Leona, tristrina kyan... haven’t played them for a bit coz not in a mood to play them but I think you should also know that everyone has a favorite champ and for me is Lux atm, I mainly use lux to play normal draft in support role, I only use lux to play a few ranked game only . And yes my Kassadin has win streaks in ranked however i hope you read what I said carefully as well I had coaching session back in October and my coach coached me to use Kassadin to win in ranked games , not only Kassadin also Leblanc, karma, syndra and Orianna As well , it helped a lot, And also it’s not continuously win during that coaching session. I lose quite a lot in that session but I played continuously quite a lot of games . And yet you are trying to accuse my friend? My friend has been playing league of legend since season 1 and yes in this account she main Kama, Ahri and MF a lot but does it mean she is not good at other champ? No , she is good at other champ as well, in her other NA account. And yes I agree with what you said it looks a bit suspicious, but if I use different champ in ranked game and draft game can get me accused by MMR boosting, I think this is a bit unfair and it feels like I don’t have the right to choose whatever champ I want to play under whatever situation , so what’s the point of playing a game and have fun then. And also normal draft game is not a ranking competition or something, It’s a Platform to enjoy the fun moments I don’t care if it’s win or lose, there’s nothing to do with competing e-sport spirit. Btw I don’t mind telling you my records or things that you wanna know , but I found it a bit uncomfortable for you to stalk me and my friend.....
> [{quoted}](name=AsianBichyQueen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RGc6A0OH,comment-id=001500000000,timestamp=2018-11-09T07:12:33.727+0000) > > If you can check my friend account I am sure you are good at checking at this, yes I do play lux a lot coz I really enjoy playing it and also I actually don’t usually use Mog that much. > i also use another few champ a lot in this account e.g Sona Leona, tristrina kyan... haven’t played them for a bit coz not in a mood to play them > but I think you should also know that everyone has a favorite champ and for me is Lux atm, I mainly use lux to play normal draft in support role, I only use lux to play a few ranked game only . And yes my Kassadin has win streaks in ranked however i hope you read what I said carefully as well I had coaching session back in October and my coach coached me to use Kassadin to win in ranked games , not only Kassadin also Leblanc, karma, syndra and Orianna As well , it helped a lot, > And also it’s not continuously win during that coaching session. I lose quite a lot in that session but I played continuously quite a lot of games . And yet you are trying to accuse my friend? My friend has been playing league of legend since season 1 and yes in this account she main Kama, Ahri and MF a lot but does it mean she is not good at other champ? No , she is good at other champ as well, in her other NA account. And yes I agree with what you said it looks a bit suspicious, but if I use different champ in ranked game and draft game can get me accused by MMR boosting, I think this is a bit unfair and it feels like I don’t have the right to choose whatever champ I want to play under whatever situation , so what’s the point of playing a game and have fun then. > And also normal draft game is not a ranking competition or something, It’s a Platform to enjoy the fun moments I don’t care if it’s win or lose, there’s nothing to do with competing e-sport spirit. > > Btw I don’t mind telling you my records or things that you wanna know , but I found it a bit uncomfortable for you to stalk me and my friend..... That person is not stalking you. He's just verifying your claims because it sounded fishy.
Moody P (NA)
: Sejuani - Please, god, not like this
I'm not sure if you guys actually saw why Sejuani got her Permafrost dmg go up by 200dmg **It now takes 4 stacks of frost in order to activate permafrost. ** So no more single auto attack to auto slow a target. Also, her winter's wrath no longer slow. it's going to be way harder to apply cc with sejuani. She will now have to rely more on her allies to apply stacks of frost to actually have some decent effect, inciting more teamplay tl;dr : Riot didn't add 200 dmg for free. She now has to apply 4 stacks of frost in order to detonate permafrost
Jaspers (EUW)
: Ban Rate shows something is unhealthy for the game/champ, not how powerful they are.
Not really... I usually ban champions I'm usually weak against and that has a high probability of being played. So if I play mid Karma, I usually ban Syndra, Leblanc because i'm weak against them. If I play adc MF, I usually ban Blitzcrank, braum and Yasuo because they counter me and not because they are unhealthy
: What is Your Favorite Ability for Each Key?
Q: Inner flame {{champion:43}} Pretty straightforward spell. Cheap, and powerful W: Zephyr {{champion:40}} Annoyance spell. Nice passive E: Lucent Singularity {{champion:99}} R: Frozen Tomb {{champion:127}} I like the fact that you can be invulnerable for 5 seconds if you combine it with zhonya
: As I get older, I can't compete with younger players in terms of micro mechanics
Omg you have no idea how I feel the same about this. I've been playing LoL since 2011 and I used to remember that I was pretty good for reacting and pressing my spells quickly during intense fights. Now, I really feel like my hand dexterity has decreased and everytime I do a bad move, i'm like doing an inside rage by myself and I violently shake my hands in an desperate attempt to get back my old reactions :( But I'm better for skillshots now :p
: Let's talk about excessive mobility
I mean, in DoTA 2 there's an item that allows you to flash every 20 seconds. Also there's a hyper carry champion called Magina who can flash (VERY FAR) every 6 seconds.
: Remove my 14 day ban now.
That's like one of the word you can never use in game. We can never judge the circumstances of why you used the word as you only posted the chat text. That's like Psycho Bob in simpsons trying to argue against a lawyer that the definition of his chest tattoo DIE BART DIE isn't what it meant, but rather was in german language for The Bart, The.
Eedat (NA)
: Its really not that bad and Bruisers are doing just fine with it As far as "every ADC who can't rush it is trash" I have no clue what you're talking about {{champion:21}} {{champion:236}}{{champion:67}} {{champion:81}}. Legit two of the top 3 most picked ADCs dont build it and the third (Kai'sa) doesnt build it 100% of the time either. Honestly the opposite of what you're claiming is true. The ADCs that dont rush Stormrazor are fairing better than the ones who have to. Legit lets take a look at the ADCs that arent forced to rush Stormrazor vs ones who are. I'm using op.gg stats btw **Ones who arent:** {{champion:236}} 52.5% WR, 37% pickrate {{champion:81}} 48.1% WR, 25.9% pickrate {{champion:21}} 52% WR, 8.2% pickrate {{champion:67}} 49.3 10.8 {{champion:96}} 49.7% WR, 1% pickrate {{champion:429}} 49% WR, 1.4% pickrate {{champion:29}} 51.3% WR, 2.7% pickrate {{champion:22}} 50.8% WR, 3.8% pickrate **Ones who build it pretty much all the time:** {{champion:202}} 50% WR, 14.4% pickrate {{champion:498}} 47.9% WR, 13.3% pickrate {{champion:15}} 51% WR, 13.3% pickrate {{champion:222}} 50.7% WR, 8.4% pickrate {{champion:18}} 46.9% WR, 6.2% pickrate {{champion:51}} 47.1% WR, 5.3% pickrate This literally contradicts your point. As a matter of fact, ADCs who are forced into rushing Stormrazor are actually performing **WORSE** than ones who are not. This thread makes no sense.
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjHbaTie,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-11-02T18:00:38.865+0000) > > Its really not that bad and Bruisers are doing just fine with it > > As far as "every ADC who can't rush it is trash" I have no clue what you're talking about {{champion:21}} {{champion:236}}{{champion:67}} {{champion:81}}. Legit two of the top 3 most picked ADCs dont build it and the third (Kai'sa) doesnt build it 100% of the time either. Honestly the opposite of what you're claiming is true. The ADCs that dont rush Stormrazor are fairing better than the ones who have to. > > Legit lets take a look at the ADCs that arent forced to rush Stormrazor vs ones who are. > > I'm using op.gg stats btw > > **Ones who arent:** > > {{champion:236}} 52.5% WR, 37% pickrate > {{champion:81}} 48.1% WR, 25.9% pickrate > {{champion:21}} 52% WR, 8.2% pickrate > {{champion:67}} 49.3 10.8 > {{champion:96}} 49.7% WR, 1% pickrate > {{champion:429}} 49% WR, 1.4% pickrate > {{champion:29}} 51.3% WR, 2.7% pickrate > > **Ones who build it pretty much all the time:** > > {{champion:202}} 50% WR, 14.4% pickrate > {{champion:498}} 47.9% WR, 13.3% pickrate > {{champion:15}} 51% WR, 13.3% pickrate > {{champion:222}} 50.7% WR, 8.4% pickrate > {{champion:18}} 46.9% WR, 6.2% pickrate > {{champion:51}} 47.1% WR, 5.3% pickrate > {{champion:22}} 50.8% WR, 3.8% pickrate > > There is literally contradicts your point. As a matter of fact, ADCs who are forced into rushing Stormrazor are actually performing **WORSE** than ones who are not. This thread makes no sense. I've never seen Ashe buy Stormrazor. The first hit doesn't even do extra dmg because of her passive.
: Just an Item idea!
Hey, Cool idea, but on the weak side imo 1. Cost more than morellonomicon, gives less AP. perhaps 85 would be nice ? 2. Only the active spell gives grievous wound. But then, that's the signature stats from morello. 3. Could have better stats or a lower cost :3
: Hi all, I'm glad there are a lot of people really excited about the changes, but I think that I've heard two main negative sentiments crop up. I'll try to address them as best I can.     #\#1 - Karma's Ally W is broken with certain champs or will be super strong in coordinated play, forcing us to nerf her/balance her around her new W First, the new Ally-W is a strong effect. We wanted to give Karma a tool which has really great strengths when used effectively - experienced Karma players should be able to use this to the best of its abilities. However, we did very intentionally take a number of steps to try to mitigate these risk factors. 1. We gave Karma her _Souls Alight_ passive to help Karma understand when its valuable for her to use W without having to be on voice comms. Additionally, the flat Cooldown Reduction is applied fairly flexibly, opening up the number of picks that its useful with. We've noticed it feels great with Tanks, Mages, other Supports, ADCs with long cooldowns or mana hungry ADCs, so we're hoping that there are a lot of different viable targets and team compositions that feel nice with Karma. 2. The cooldown reduction applied has a stipulation to prevent outright abuse cases of back-to-back spellcasts (chain hard CC). Karma's W attempts to apply CDR every quarter second, but it will not reduce an ability's remaining cooldown to a point of coming off cooldown within 3s of the last time it was cast. This ensures a "3s buffer" between spellcasts affected by Karma's W. We believe this mitigates most of the straight up abuse cases associated with Karma's W. We understand that there's still some risk here, and will be actively monitoring anything that gets too out of control.     #\#2 - These changes feel like they are shoving Karma strictly into the support role/as a solo-lane Karma player, I feel underserved by these changes This is fair feedback. The biggest, coolest change is definitely the Ally-cast W, which primarily serves to help your allies. I'd argue that Allycast-W has a lot of applications for solo lane Karma, whether that's jungle ganks or teamfights. However, I think something I failed to deliver was the scope of buffs and tuning changes we're planning with these changes (since I did not include numbers). So I'll preview the tuning changes below. **Please keep in mind that these are not final numbers - we may change these drastically depending on initial balance reads from the PBE**: * Base Stats * Move Speed: 335 >>> 330 * HP Regen: 5.5 (+0.55/lvl) >>> 7 (+0.6/lvl) * Armor: 26 >>> 30 * Passive - Gathering Fire * Kindled Spirit * Cooldown reduced on Mantra from damage dealt: 2/3/4 (levels 1/7/13) >>> 3/4/5/6 (ult ranks) * No longer halved on auto-attacks * Now works against large monsters * Now operates on a charge system * Karma gains 1 charge per 7 seconds, to a cap of 3 charges * [NEW] Souls Alight * Karma can see an indicator for her ally's total basic spell cooldowns * Q - Inner Flame * Mantra - Soulflare * Bonus Damage: 25/75/125/175 (+30% AP) >>> 35/105/175/245 (+45% AP) * Detonation Damage: 35/140/245/350 (+60% AP) >>> 25/110/195/280 (+45% AP) * W - Spirit Bond * Cooldown: 12 >>> 16 * Mana: 50-70 >>> 70 * Damage per tick: 30/55/80/105/130 (+45% AP) >>> 50/75/100/125/150 (+60% AP) * Mantra - Renewal * Healing (per tick): 20% (+0.01% AP) of missing health >>> 15% of missing health + 25% AP * [NEW] Ally Cast: * Reduces an ally's basic ability cooldowns by up to 10s total over the bond duration (2s). * Mantra - Harmony * Plus 20/30/40/50s cooldown reduction. Returns 20% of Max Mana to the ally. * E - Inspire * Shield: 70/95/120/145/170 (+50% AP) >>> 75/100/125/150/175 (+55% AP) * Move Speed Bonus: 40/45/50/55/60% >>> 35/40/45/50/55% * Mantra - Defiance * Shared Shield Percent: 30% >>> 75%, split across all shared targets * Shared Movespeed Percent: 100% >>> 75%, split across all shared targets We believe that solo lane Karma is properly served by the base stat changes, adjustments to AP ratios, and relative strengths of the Enemy-W cast as a alternative option, but we will definitely see how these land and make sure that solo lane Karma players feel like they can play their champion effectively. However, I will reaffirm that proper choice of which cast of W to use in a given situation is an important skill for Karma in any lane - good Karma players will exercise the proper decisionmaking, both through the modal W cast and Mantra choice, her signature spell.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot NeuroCat,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=TkiBEVYV,comment-id=0094,timestamp=2018-10-26T21:20:03.939+0000) > > Hi all, > > I'm glad there are a lot of people really excited about the changes, but I think that I've heard two main negative sentiments crop up. I'll try to address them as best I can. >   >   > #\#1 - Karma's Ally W is broken with certain champs or will be super strong in coordinated play, forcing us to nerf her/balance her around her new W > > First, the new Ally-W is a strong effect. We wanted to give Karma a tool which has really great strengths when used effectively - experienced Karma players should be able to use this to the best of its abilities. However, we did very intentionally take a number of steps to try to mitigate these risk factors. > > 1. We gave Karma her _Souls Alight_ passive to help Karma understand when its valuable for her to use W without having to be on voice comms. Additionally, the flat Cooldown Reduction is applied fairly flexibly, opening up the number of picks that its useful with. We've noticed it feels great with Tanks, Mages, other Supports, ADCs with long cooldowns or mana hungry ADCs, so we're hoping that there are a lot of different viable targets and team compositions that feel nice with Karma. > > 2. The cooldown reduction applied has a stipulation to prevent outright abuse cases of back-to-back spellcasts (chain hard CC). Karma's W attempts to apply CDR every quarter second, but it will not reduce an ability's remaining cooldown to a point of coming off cooldown within 3s of the last time it was cast. This ensures a "3s buffer" between spellcasts affected by Karma's W. We believe this mitigates most of the straight up abuse cases associated with Karma's W. > > We understand that there's still some risk here, and will be actively monitoring anything that gets too out of control. >   >   > #\#2 - These changes feel like they are shoving Karma strictly into the support role/as a solo-lane Karma player, I feel underserved by these changes > > This is fair feedback. The biggest, coolest change is definitely the Ally-cast W, which primarily serves to help your allies. I'd argue that Allycast-W has a lot of applications for solo lane Karma, whether that's jungle ganks or teamfights. However, I think something I failed to deliver was the scope of buffs and tuning changes we're planning with these changes (since I did not include numbers). So I'll preview the tuning changes below. **Please keep in mind that these are not final numbers - we may change these drastically depending on initial balance reads from the PBE**: > > * Base Stats > * Move Speed: 335 >>> 330 > * HP Regen: 5.5 (+0.55/lvl) >>> 7 (+0.6/lvl) > * Armor: 26 >>> 30 > * Passive - Gathering Fire > * Kindled Spirit > * Cooldown reduced on Mantra from damage dealt: 2/3/4 (levels 1/7/13) >>> 3/4/5/6 (ult ranks) > * No longer halved on auto-attacks > * Now works against large monsters > * Now operates on a charge system > * Karma gains 1 charge per 7 seconds, to a cap of 3 charges > * [NEW] Souls Alight > * Karma can see an indicator for her ally's total basic spell cooldowns > * Q - Inner Flame > * Mantra - Soulflare > * Bonus Damage: 25/75/125/175 (+30% AP) >>> 35/105/175/245 (+45% AP) > * Detonation Damage: 35/140/245/350 (+60% AP) >>> 25/110/195/280 (+45% AP) > * W - Spirit Bond > * Cooldown: 12 >>> 16 > * Mana: 50-70 >>> 70 > * Damage per tick: 30/55/80/105/130 (+45% AP) >>> 50/75/100/125/150 (+60% AP) > * Mantra - Renewal > * Healing (per tick): 20% (+0.01% AP) of missing health >>> 15% of missing health + 25% AP > * [NEW] Ally Cast: > * Reduces an ally's basic ability cooldowns by up to 10s total over the bond duration (2s). > * Mantra - Harmony > * Plus 20/30/40/50s cooldown reduction. Returns 20% of Max Mana to the ally. > * E - Inspire > * Shield: 70/95/120/145/170 (+50% AP) >>> 75/100/125/150/175 (+55% AP) > * Move Speed Bonus: 40/45/50/55/60% >>> 35/40/45/50/55% > * Mantra - Defiance > * Shared Shield Percent: 30% >>> 75%, split across all shared targets > * Shared Movespeed Percent: 100% >>> 75%, split across all shared targets > > > We believe that solo lane Karma is properly served by the base stat changes, adjustments to AP ratios, and relative strengths of the Enemy-W cast as a alternative option, but we will definitely see how these land and make sure that solo lane Karma players feel like they can play their champion effectively. However, I will reaffirm that proper choice of which cast of W to use in a given situation is an important skill for Karma in any lane - good Karma players will exercise the proper decisionmaking, both through the modal W cast and Mantra choice, her signature spell. I'm really not fond of having her W's cooldown increased by 4 seconds without having lower cooldown on late game. Having a 4 second increase on her W will just make less ''duel'' like. Also, because her passive will now be a recharge, seeing Karma use two W mantra against an ennemy will basically be nul. All of her aggresiveness mantra is pushed into her Q-R. In patch 7.20, you guys increased her cooldown reduction from her passive going to 2 / 3 / 4 seconds from 2 / 2.5 / 3. That reason was simply, ''the more mantra during a fight, the more effective Karma is''. But now, because of her recharge like passive, you can maybe see 2 mantras in a teamfight (3 at max) which is pretty bummer for me. I feel like because of her new W mantra, you remove more of the current Karma than she actually is.
Tcest x3 (NA)
: Vayne feels like poop right now, and Kat? Don't get me started. Just revert her.
these kinds of comment regarding a champion is usually felt on low division elo. If you really main both champions, you should know how to get out of sticky situations and turn the tide against them.
Rikisorsa (EUW)
: Which role is mechanically easiest, and why?
Mechanicaly the easiest would be support imo. However, if you're the kind of person who wants to actually carry the game, you shouldn't play support. ADC is not a good option because you rely on your support and will play against 2 players. If one of you does bad, tilting or passive aggresive players will just ruin your game experience TOP lane is also not a good option because you'll be confined in the top lane for a good amount of time. Roaming would be hard and you kind of need Teleport to help your team. JUNGLE laning is perhaps the hardest for new players because you need to kite jungle creeps and not simply attack them. You'll run out of health pretty quickly if you do it wrong. Also, if you mess up the jungle path, you won't be able to gank and will put your team in disavantage. MID lane is by far my favourite. You are relying on yourself against a single player. You have two ways of exit when getting ganked or want to gank. Pushing lane is the closest to towers, you'll be the highest level from your team and you can also carry the game.
: New Dark Harvest
Hi, Does the new dark harvest work with spells too ? What if Morgana throws tormented soil ? Will it trigger that rune and will she get multiple souls at once if she hits multiple champions in a single spell? What if Brand kills someone what applies a DPS on several champions, will the ticking trigger dark harvest again? Does it work with Heimerdinger's basic turret attacks or similar units ? (Zyra's plants, Nidalee's traps, Kindred's wolf, Shaco's Boxes, Annie's Tibber, Ivern's Daisy, Maokai's sappling etc...)
: Please change "Defeat" message
Jeez. I didn't know people are easily flustered these days
: Why the random buff to Karma W that no one asked for on the PBE riot?
Karma was on the weak side for a while. Since most Karma max her W last, her 1 second root during mid game was pretty sad. Riot cannot completely rework her W since season is ending very soon. Her rework will probably hit somewhere after season ends with all bunch of major rework.
: HIK HYAK HYUK WASABI SOYABEANHO HYUAK HA HYAK
Dr Dog (NA)
: soooo sivir
I love her since that Pizza delivery skin :3
Hayaishi (NA)
: Miss fortune taking half my HP
I mean, that Q's bounce range is so low and so easy to avoid. You just need to get a better positionning and that's about it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OWz1qUGb,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-08-09T19:42:51.324+0000) > > Whoops!! MF's secret combo has been uncovered ! I need to climb in ranks before they nerf that :p :p I not a new thing though lol, everyone know that.
> [{quoted}](name=ValiantKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OWz1qUGb,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-08-09T19:44:18.411+0000) > > I not a new thing though lol, everyone know that. I think it's still fairly new. Everytime I would go dark harvest with MF, my allies would massively ping that mastery and say ''???'' in chats
: Since you gutting assassins and their runes, hopefully you will get this 2 champions too
Whoops!! MF's secret combo has been uncovered ! I need to climb in ranks before they nerf that :p :p
: I think AP Trynd is unfair
He is getting a 2 second nerf on his whirlwind for the next patch. cheer up !
: been stuck in silver 4 all season, been in promos 10+ times need some advice.
I don't think you're doing anything wrong when I look at your profile on opgg. I do believe that Bronze and silver elo can be easily solo carried if you are actually good enough. The Champions that you are picking are sadly nor recommended for solo carrying. {{champion:104}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:105}} are the kind of champions that you are looking for to massively snowball and solo carry games
Zetahertz (EUNE)
: Can we nerf Duskblade already?
There's a reason why glacial augment is the least picked rune in the game and why Teemo is barely played as a support. I think that you should be the one who should learn to accept that most people agree with saying that your build is for casual fun and not for real playing. You telling me how vision works and how to play is basically a kid trying to argue with a professor. I think I know more than you. You sticking to the fact that your build is the best support build for Teemo despite major negative comments from the forum just shows how in denial you are. Beside shooting me insults, how about going with constructive argumentations on why this is a better rune than Arcane comet or whatever.
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdNVyx6z,comment-id=000100000003000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T14:33:37.532+0000) > > * Your post got over 80+ downvotes by players on this forum Because some person couldn't read and put words in my mouth. And still does. It's situational like MF support the way other people build him. He used to be support on OP.gg when the crit nerfs hit. By the way, did you know Glacial Augment slows? Actives just make it stronger? Know your place. Useful only when he gets slows... Hah. He already has one from the rune. Downvotes doesn't mean logic. There are some really stupid things that happened with popularity. *Cough salem witch trials* You don't put your mushrooms on the enemy. YOU block jungle escape and entrances. You use his shrooms for warding. You make it annoying. You don't play him like you play top. You make him evil. Watching them suffer. Something you are incapable of doing nor thinking about. He is the vision master. Learn the game and learn to exploit strengths and weaknesses. It was a joke on what OP said. However, you took it to the next level and I'll put you in your fucking place harder if you respond again. Also -19 =/= -80. What is counting? > [{quoted}](name=JamesTheMage15,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdNVyx6z,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-07-23T19:09:37.024+0000) > > The joke > > Your head
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdNVyx6z,comment-id=0001000000030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T14:36:01.369+0000) > > Because some person couldn't read and put words in my mouth. And still does. It's situational like MF support the way other people build him. He used to be support on OP.gg when the crit nerfs hit. > > By the way, did you know Glacial Augment slows? Actives just make it stronger? > > Know your place. > > Useful only when he gets slows... > > Hah. He already has one from the rune. > > Downvotes doesn't mean logic. There are some really stupid things that happened with popularity. *Cough salem witch trials* > > You don't put your mushrooms on the enemy. YOU block jungle escape and entrances. You use his shrooms for warding. You make it annoying. You don't play him like you play top. You make him evil. Watching them suffer. Something you are incapable of doing nor thinking about. > > He is the vision master. Learn the game and learn to exploit strengths and weaknesses. > > It was a joke on what OP said. However, you took it to the next level and I'll put you in your fucking place harder if you respond again. Also -19 =/= -80. What is counting? Lol okay, I know my place, which is in Diamond elo since season 3. So because you're stuck with your glacial augment theory, here's a copy paste of the effect I took from Wikilol. * Passive – Glacial Augment: Basic attacks Slow icon slow enemy champions for 2 seconds, which increases over the duration. This effect cannot occur on the same target more than once every few seconds. Melee role Melee champions: An initial 45% slow that increases to 55%. Ranged role Ranged champions: An initial 30% slow that increases to 40%. Passive – Freeze Ray: Slow icon Slowing an enemy champion with an item active creates a 600-unit frozen line in their direction for 5 seconds, Slow icon slowing by 60% all enemies within. The Freeze Ray can fire upon any number of champions concurrently, and has no cooldown. Cooldown 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 (per target) seconds As Teemo, your Slow by glacial augment is 30% which will gradually go up to 40% on a period of 2 SECONDS. That slow is weaker than your shrooms. The only thing that will trigger your Glacial augment is your auto attack of which, will barely sting and do nothing. Now, as for Freeze Ray, it will slow them for 60% AFTER being hit by another ''freezing active'' and up to 5 seconds IF THEY STAY ON THE FREEZING PATH. Otherwise, it's still a 2 second slow. You got Twin shadows and that hextech item. In short, your Shroom's slow will last 4 seconds which is largely the dominant slow meaning that all your other slow skills are just dumb and overstacking. I know how to make Teemo evil. And it's certainly not with your build. You're just like Bowser trying to be evil on a mario party game. Trying ''evil'' builds that's just cute in the end. In a low ranking games such as yours, where pink wards are basically non-existant, i'm pretty sure you're having fun. Please teach me more senpai. I need more of your wisdom
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdNVyx6z,comment-id=0001000000030000,timestamp=2018-08-07T19:58:21.733+0000) > > 1) Unless you are bronze or unranked, this is basically one of the worst Teemo build setup I have ever seen. Also, i'm not sure what meta you're playing where a Teemo support is the key to go. > > 2) I NEVER said he he can't be more cancerous now. YOU said it. Read more your OWN posts > [{quoted}](name=Zetahertz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdNVyx6z,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-23T16:30:26.360+0000) > > **Seriously this item {{item:3147}} is more cancerous than Teemo** **used to be** Read the ORIGINAL POST before posting. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut. Thanks. Yes, you were correct... Only to a degree. Learn to read the OP before posting next time. Otherwise, I will assume you believe what he does. Also, my winrates don't give a **** about what you say. It gives him more range. It's what he needs in bot lane.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdNVyx6z,comment-id=00010000000300000000,timestamp=2018-08-07T20:04:28.586+0000) > > Read the ORIGINAL POST before posting. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut. Thanks. > > Yes, you were correct... > > Only to a degree. > > Learn to read the OP before posting next time. Otherwise, I will assume you believe what he does. Also, my winrates don't give a **** about what you say. It gives him more range. It's what he needs in bot lane. I also don't give a damn about your Winrate. But looking at your ranking DOES give me an insight of why you think your Teemo build is so brilliant. First of all, here's why I think it sucks and why it's not optimal: * A Teemo support in early rank doesn't provide the necessary peeling and help for your ADC. He can't heal, can't slow stun, his only arsenal is his blind which is countered by spells. * At level 6 where Teemo can actually provide some CC, his damage will be weaker than any mage support such as Brand, vel koz or even Sona. * Considering that you're going support, you will have a hard time getting gold EVEN with your frostfang. * The time you will be getting Twin shadow or Hextech whatever item that goes with your glacial augment skill, You will be more fragile than any champion on the map as they don't provide any defensive stats. * Slows don't stack. So even if you slow him with your Auto attack mixed with glacial augment, Twin Shadow, hextech or your shrooms, the highest slow percentage will be taken in consideration Which is your shroom. That slow goes from 30% at rank 1 to 50% at rank 16. You're just wasting stats that can be put elsewhere such as Grievous wound from morello or magic penetration items * Basically you're going to be AT LEAST usefull during level 11-18, by the time which most games will be over. * You having picked Teemo in ranked game only ONCE since season 4 says a lot about your gaming experience with this champion. You are just picking him in normal games where people play casually which is why this build might be doing okay. * Your post got over 80+ downvotes by players on this forum yet, you still argue that this is the way to go to play Teemo support. You're just getting stubborn at this stage.
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdNVyx6z,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-23T18:15:13.263+0000) > > who the fuck gets twin shadows, glacial augment and that hextech on Teemo. 1) I do. It's called Support Teemo. Please learn this game meta. 2) You said he can't be more cancerous now. Your brain needs a checkup. Go see a neurologist guys. Thanks.
> [{quoted}](name=Lakrosin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HdNVyx6z,comment-id=000100000003,timestamp=2018-08-07T15:12:27.474+0000) > > 1) I do. It's called Support Teemo. Please learn this game meta. > > 2) You said he can't be more cancerous now. Your brain needs a checkup. Go see a neurologist guys. Thanks. 1) Unless you are bronze or unranked, this is basically one of the worst Teemo build setup I have ever seen. Also, i'm not sure what meta you're playing where a Teemo support is the key to go. 2) I NEVER said he he can't be more cancerous now. YOU said it. Read more your OWN posts
: What champion has the most satisfying wave clear?
Sivir with ravenous hunter and bloodline with : {{item:3095}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3026}} She can basically never die and never run out of mana (Against creeps of course)
sa1vage (EUW)
: nerf zoe what the fuck
They are nerfing electrocute which is going to be a nerf for Zoe. A good nerf ;)
: I legit just said that about karma AND PYKE CLEARS WAVES BETTER THAN SOME ADCS legit let em on you then q e and the waves either clear or within a hit or two And their cc is all way better then karma's because they can use it to punish engages on their carry, karma can't use w like that learn what the word potential means and the statement would make more sense
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fk4tEI9e,comment-id=000700010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-03T20:36:23.334+0000) > > I legit just said that about karma > > AND PYKE CLEARS WAVES BETTER THAN SOME ADCS legit let em on you then q e and the waves either clear or within a hit or two > > And their cc is all way better then karma's because they can use it to punish engages on their carry, karma can't use w like that learn what the word potential means and the statement would make more sense Either you're not playing Karma right or you are getting very stubborn. I have played over 4000 Karma games since season 2 and I think I know how to engage with Karma. You're talking like Karma can't do shit. As if she can't engage, can't cc, does anything weaker than other supports. I believe that you main support if you keep saying that. If you feel you can't win with her, then maybe Karma isn't made for your playstyle. There's a clear reason why Riot did a small buff to Karma to her Q only and not her W and E. She excels in coordinated teamfight. Touching her bind or shield a bit will put Karma on the top tier. I know that I can't play Melee support cuz I suck with melee champions. I don't say that Pyke or Taric or whatever melee support suck though. It's just I can't see how to play them on their full potential.
: Pyke holds lane very VERY well Also karma has a targeted POTENTIAL bind that you don't max until last because it's so unreliable Lots of supports are versatile
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fk4tEI9e,comment-id=0007000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-03T17:47:32.727+0000) > > Pyke holds lane very VERY well > Also karma has a targeted POTENTIAL bind that you don't max until last because it's so unreliable > Lots of supports are versatile What. No. Karma support Doesn't max her W not because it's not reliable but because her Q and E and way more important. I'm not sure what you're talking about a potential bind with Karma. Sure she can miss her bind if she doesn't stay close to her target long enough. But isn't that the same when a Pyke, Taric, Morgana or whatever support that miss they stun? And you still missread me. I was talking about CLEARING A LANE, NOT holding a lane.
: Recent Fizz Buffs from the POV of a Fizz Main
Can someone link for me what Riot did to FIzz in earlier patches to make him weak?
Anìmê (NA)
: Karma Changes I Would Like to See
You're just suggesting the old Karma back. This won't work for Riot
: Fiddlesticks/Morgana Nerf, or The Classic Kneejerk Nerf
Fiddle was picked as a support for his super safe harass method. You would throw that spell on a creep and hope it to bounce into ennemy champions. The spell was cheap, powerful and provided a silence which is enough to disrupt ennemies. Honestly, if you're playing jungle with Fiddle, mana shouldn't be a problem for you since they buffed they buffed {{item:1039}} and gave {{item:1402}} mana. Also, don't tell me that 5 dmg nerf on his E is dramatic. If you're playing mid with Fiddle, you'll need to better your mana and that's a thing they tried to do for all Mages on patch 8.9 . Fiddlestick got a massive 100 extra mana on level 1 coupled with a higher mana regeneration. That was a huge buff for his harrassing. His E cooldown got reduced to 10 seconds from all rank. On the other side, support Fiddles who mainly cast E to harass champions will suffer as it basically cost 40% more mana. As for Morgana, her spell shield cost 50 at all rank which was pretty OP in my opinion. Bumping to 80 mana was only fair. TL;DR : Fiddle got steady buffs since patch 6.24 and now a good nerf got it him and you're whining
k4for (EUNE)
: 5 people afk in a row whot do I win?
i've been playing LoL for too long to have this kind of situations even bother me.
: Nonono I'm not asking for a comparison I have m7 on her and 6 other supports/Leona I'm very aware of how her abilities work, I just fail to see why she would be picked over a different champion in the same position unless you need literally everything
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fk4tEI9e,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-07-31T02:24:42.038+0000) > > Nonono I'm not asking for a comparison I have m7 on her and 6 other supports/Leona I'm very aware of how her abilities work, I just fail to see why she would be picked over a different champion in the same position unless you need literally everything Why, because some champion synergizes better with some other. I can safely say that Karma goes better with Caitlyn than most support. As she lacks dmg in early-mid game, Karma can help her out while also providing a good variety of supporting skills such as a speed shield, slow and root. They also poke well better.
: Also Morgana had a 3 second root which is immediate upon hitting it, and can follow that up with a nearly garunteed stun Karma root heals karma and MIGHT root them the heal is great but re or rq tends to be much more useful in team fights She doesn't do well in every situation, all Ins with immediate cc clap her Sona and Nami can both be played mid and both have easier to work with hard cc As a support being behind tends to mean it's over for the karma, unless they give her assists or let her get some farm for an item Duel better than any support?!{{champion:555}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:432}} Quickest ult recharge? If you utilize your Passive maybe, but wild growth has incredibly low CD same with death from below and blitz and the box Pyke, thresh, Leona, blitz, Lulu, rakan, Nami, Janna, bard all have really decent Lane holding potential So while I love to play karma, because "Karma always comes around" it's kind of pointless
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fk4tEI9e,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2018-07-31T03:36:53.283+0000) > > Also Morgana had a 3 second root which is immediate upon hitting it, and can follow that up with a nearly garunteed stun > Karma root heals karma and MIGHT root them the heal is great but re or rq tends to be much more useful in team fights > She doesn't do well in every situation, all Ins with immediate cc clap her > Sona and Nami can both be played mid and both have easier to work with hard cc > As a support being behind tends to mean it's over for the karma, unless they give her assists or let her get some farm for an item > Duel better than any support?!{{champion:555}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:432}} > Quickest ult recharge? If you utilize your Passive maybe, but wild growth has incredibly low CD same with death from below and blitz and the box > Pyke, thresh, Leona, blitz, Lulu, rakan, Nami, Janna, bard all have really decent Lane holding potential > > So while I love to play karma, because "Karma always comes around" it's kind of pointless Contrary to Morgana, Karma's bind is a Target spell compared to Morgana. She has a much more greater success of landing her root than Morgana. On top of that, she can get back a great chunk of healh. She is by far the most versatile support champion and that's my opinion. No other support can switch as quickly as Karma when the game is changing pace. Need more dmg? Just get Athene. Need more supporting ? Get Crucible or Locket. Unlike Bard that exclusively gets electrocute or a Lulu with redemption, Karma still can be relevant in dmg after getting support item. Also, yes I still get my opinion on saying that Karma is the best dueling supporter. I'm talking about bringing an ennemy from 100% to 0% without help from anyone. Contrary to what you build on support, sometime it's just simply impossible to duel a champion. I.e. if you get exclusive support item, you won't deal as much dmg. Karma, still can kill someone. Also, I think i've missed my word. I wanted to say that Karma excels at holding a lane when creeps are pushing. I don't see a Sona, lulu or even pyke holding lane against a huge wave of super minions. In fact, none of the champions you listed earlier can push back a lane with ease.
: What's karma even supposed to do?
She's a good support, you want to compare her to other support champions ? - She excels at holding a lane - She can duel champions better than any support - She has the highest shield value - She has the highest root duration and can even do it quicker than Morgana's bind You want to compare Karma to other mid champions ? - She has the quickest ultimate recharge - She's the only mid champion that has a Heal, shield, - Even when behind, she can still be relevant - She's does well in every situations.
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Hochelaga

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