: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zzLRIEl6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-08T01:48:37.136+0000) > > _My_ favorite thing about reworks is the minuscule amount of players that enjoyed their (usually very niche) champion so much that they start acting like the newer version, with it's higher playrate and/or winrate, is an objective failure. > > Not to mention that most reworks generally succeed in removing problematic elements, which of course, those dedicated players don't believe ever existed. > > Yes, not all reworks are perfect. You have a right to be upset about the old version being changed (as do I with Shen) but it happened for a reason, a reason which benefits more than a handful of players. > > ... > > Oh, right. "Eggsdeeeeeeeeee." As an old Galio main I still dont see the point/benefit of the rework. He became a pro play nightmare whereas before he was picked in pro here and there but was never a problem. His winrate was always okay, but after the rework they had to gut him til his winrate suffered.
I specifically said "_most_ reworks generally succeed in removing problematic elements" and "Yes, _not all reworks_ are perfect" for a reason. Namely due to Galio, Akali, and _I guess_ Pantheon since he is/was pretty damn strong (albeit in a different way compared to old Panth.)
: My favorite thing about reworks
_My_ favorite thing about reworks is the minuscule amount of players that enjoyed their (usually very niche) champion so much that they start acting like the newer version, with it's higher playrate and/or winrate, is an objective failure. Not to mention that most reworks generally succeed in removing problematic elements, which of course, those dedicated players don't believe ever existed. Yes, not all reworks are perfect. You have a right to be upset about the old version being changed (as do I with Shen) but it happened for a reason, a reason which benefits more than a handful of players. ... Oh, right. "Eggsdeeeeeeeeee."
: > [{quoted}](name=ldsjm4,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Afy12tnN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-06T15:10:51.755+0000) > > If I had to guess it's so he can land his E afterwards without having to guess the 50/50 in which way they are going to walk to avoid the E. Making him a brain dead champion
You realize that every other hook champion has more reliable and better followup than Pyke...right? Blitz has his E/R (and a much faster hook in general), Thresh has _his_ E/R, even Nautilus has his passive and E/R. Not to mention at later stages of the game when people have tenacity, tier 2 boots, dashes and blinks on lower CD from leveling and CDR, his E (and subsequently, his R) become much harder to consistently hit.
IainG10 (EUW)
: Casually glossing over my suggestion of the _random_ checks for presence of an actual human being throughout the process. When they make an automated system that actually works for anything other than keywords in chat, then you're right about the speed. However what we currently have **is clearly not working**. There has been an increase in trolls since IFS replaced Tribunal, simply because they know how to exploit the system, which is to troll silently and throw in the occasional kill or assist to make it look like they are actually playing properly but badly.
> Casually glossing over my suggestion of the _random_ checks for presence of an actual human being throughout the process. > Because automation wasn't the problem. People aren't/weren't running bots that abuse the Tribunal for free rewards, actual human interaction _is_ the core problem because the few people who were involved with the system put in little to no effort. A random check isn't going to do anything to solve a lack of effort and slow case review speeds. > When they make an automated system that actually works for anything other than keywords in chat, then you're right about the speed. However what we currently have **is clearly not working**. There has been an increase in trolls since IFS replaced Tribunal, simply because they know how to exploit the system, which is to troll silently and throw in the occasional kill or assist to make it look like they are actually playing properly but badly. I would much rather have an automated system for everything, because people clearly don't understand the definition of "**intentionally** feeding" (ex. "My midlaner went 0/4 in lane, they're inting") and the definition of griefing is too broad. Having an automated, defined system isn't perfect but it's the best choice in terms of consistency and accuracy. Mainly because something many people incorrectly do is believe the Tribunal to be perfect when in fact it is far, far from it. Where's your evidence for the system "not working"? Chat related punishments are very common and incredibly consistent, gameplay punishments less so _but_ they're still administered occasionally. It's the lesser of two evils, because the Tribunal had glaring problems and if we went back to that system, I guarantee you that you would **never** see trolls or inters punished.
: people just upvote random shit without even looking inside the thread
IainG10 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HcocKwIB,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-12-05T20:20:47.284+0000) > > Very, very, **very** few people (if any) are going to offer their time to review and judge cases for absolutely no reward. As nice as it sounds, it's just not going to happen. > It's really, really easy; reward them for taking part in Tribunal rather than only on punishments served. Have the rewards be for time spent watching replays and submitting a verdict, with 'Are you a robot?' checks thrown in at random times to check people are still working and aren't bots.
> It's really, really easy; reward them for taking part in Tribunal rather than only on punishments served. Have the rewards be for time spent watching replays and submitting a verdict, with 'Are you a robot?' checks thrown in at random times to check people are still working and aren't bots. It's really not _that_ simple of a solution, because then it would just turn into people "watching" the replays (AKA sitting on their phone or tabbing out) and still putting 0 effort into administering fair punishments. And of course, there will be some people who do fairly judge cases, but the majority of them will be inconsistent and fall behind the automated system. After the initial burst of the system subsides, it will go back to being a scarcely used feature.
m0zz4r3ll4 (EUNE)
: "we removed Tribunal because people would just press "punish" to get rewards" -RIOT Then remove the rewards. I know RIOT failed at Social Studies, but this argument is just plain stupid
>Then remove the rewards. I know RIOT failed at Social Studies, but this argument is just plain stupid Very, very, **very** few people (if any) are going to offer their time to review and judge cases for absolutely no reward. As nice as it sounds, it's just not going to happen. ____________ **(edit: And remember, we're not talking about someone coming in and doing a few cases every now and then. We're talking about a _consistent_, nonstop cycle of people working for free, enough to keep the punishments going at a constant rate.)** ________ Not to mention that wasn't the Tribunal's only issue, even if a large amount of players worked around the clock, they would still fall massively behind the speed and accuracy of an automated system.
Okraki (NA)
: Fake cheating
Calling for reports is definitely punishable, albeit rare on it's own as generally speaking it needs to be stacked with something else. Accusing another player of cheating is _kind of_ toeing the line, however. I could see that being viewed in a negative way, but a small part of me feels that it would also need to be stacked with something else to be actionable. If you already filed the report, don't worry about it. Best case scenario they're held accountable, worst case scenario nothing substantial happens and it gets added as supportive evidence for when/if they get punished for something else.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8mU5w5w,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-05T19:42:23.134+0000) > > I don't know, honestly. > > On one hand I think it makes sense, on the other it completely invalidates the point of a permanent ban and it's purpose as a punishment (to remove someone from the game entirely, not just restrict them to playing with friends/premades) Technically the point of the permaban isn't just punishment, it is to keep said player from ruining the experience for others right? The above suggestion makes it less likely for the toxic player to create a new account and start all over again with lowbies.
The main point of a permanent ban is to restrict said player's access to the game. If you get a permanent ban, Riot just doesn't want you playing the game anymore. TBH I think the only reason they "allow" people to create new accounts is because they can't exactly stop someone from doing so. IP bans are easily circumvented, hardware ID bans are expensive but can be worked around, and SMS verification effects the entirety of the playerbase heavily (in addition to being avoidable with burners.) You're correct though, one of the attractions of a permanent ban is also stop the player from ruining games for others. That being said, it just kind of goes back to what I said about the punishment not "weighing" as much, for lack of a better word. If someone knows they can just play with friends/premades, the threat of that punishment is diminished greatly. IMO more focus should be put into allowing players to reform, not worrying about what they deal with after the fact.
Subdue (NA)
: Musing: What if Permaban players...
I don't know, honestly. On one hand I think it makes sense, on the other it completely invalidates the point of a permanent ban and it's purpose as a punishment (to remove someone from the game entirely, not just restrict them to playing with friends/premades)
: Well, a 10 game chat restriction is the lowest punishment, and i think that's too low for someone calling people R*tards in-game. If i was you i would be happy that i only recieved a 10 game and not a 2 week. Plus that's not even the only bad thing you did. Most of this is flaming and unsportsmanlike conduct. There's no reason to flame someone nomatter what gamemode or reason you have.
The word "ret%%d" is automatically censored on the Boards, it is not considered to be a zero-tolerance phrase in-game.
: Should I contact Riot support about my case, or was the punishment just and accept my punishment?
>I know what I said was toxic, but even so, I don't think this game alone should warrant an automatic 10 game chat restriction, especially since I had no previous infractions at all and I was in good standing. Again, this was also the only game they showed as evidence as well, proving that this was a one time case. Shouldn't I have at least been given a warning or at most just give me a 1-3 chat restriction punishment? The first punishment for any (standard) chat related offense is always a 10 game chat restriction. Following that it's a 25 game chat restriction, a 14 day gameplay suspension, and finally, a permanent suspension. I think you should just accept this punishment as is and keep it as a reminder to not respond to anyone who's giving you a hard time. I understand you may have been frustrated but you definitely went a little overboard when you called your teammate a "fucking ret%%d" and then continued to go back and forth with them for the remainder of the game. That being said, I also think you should accept this punishment because I honestly don't believe Riot support would overturn it. You can try, but don't be surprised if they deny the appeal. In the future, just keep a cool head and mute anyone who gives you a hard time; negativity and flaming isn't justified because someone else started it.
: Rito why you nerf Akali?
Akali is still incredibly strong in higher elos as evidenced by her high banrate and playrate. Also, a 47-48% winrate isn't **horribly** bad when the champion is incredibly popular. IMO that's where popular champions should rest.
: What should validate a permanent ban?
In my opinion: I think the system is pretty fair all around. And I say this as someone who's been permanently banned once in the past. Consistent and/or severe negativity (such as racism, homophobia, etc.) should definitely result in a permanent ban, that's what makes it justified. The rules are fairly transparent and people get a minmum of 2 chances, maximum of 4 (assuming their punishment tier doesn't go down) and that's more than enough in my opinion. My largest complaint is that I think AFKing should be punished **much** more heavily. Maybe it's just me, maybe my opinion differs from the majority of players, but I just don't think a leaverbuster is severe enough to deter people from ruining games entirely. Don't get me wrong, intentional feeding and griefing are definitely worse (after all, you're actively staying in the game _just_ to keep others from winning) but AFKing is right up there with them. And I know Riot themselves have confirmed that consistently AFKing can lead to a permanent ban, but I personally haven't seen this happen and if it truly does, it's clearly very rare.
Lewanor (NA)
: This post literally just says, "Hi guys, my GF makes good pictures and loves lol. Can she work on LoL for a small amount of time?" You're right but wouldn't like... her GF know about those if she ever worked before? I assumed she never did any kind of "serious" work before.
> This post literally just says, "Hi guys, my GF makes good pictures and loves lol. Can she work on LoL for a small amount of time?" ...yeah, and as mentioned above, artistic work can be outsourced. Riot has a lot of projects going on right now from new games to TFT to League to comics and new series, there's a lot they could (potentially) need. >You're right but wouldn't like... her GF know about those if she ever worked before? I assumed she never did any kind of "serious" work before. I wouldn't assume that much, not unless OP chooses to give more detail.
Lewanor (NA)
: That's now how... jobs work.
> [{quoted}](name=Lewanor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E5YQKqpB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-12-05T14:13:08.469+0000) > > That's now how... jobs work. Artistic-related jobs (usually graphic design) often outsource their work. It's not unheard of.
Ph03n1xb1rd (EUNE)
: > How do I go about getting this fixed? Unfortunately, make a new acc, and don't share the login info with anyone. (Oh ofc, and forget about the old one.) EDIT: I just added Unfortunately since all the special guys here did that :D
> [{quoted}](name=Ph03n1xb1rd,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AWRipHNg,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-12-05T10:38:51.094+0000) > > Unfortunately, make a new acc, and don't share the login info with anyone. (Oh ofc, and forget about the old one.) > > EDIT: I just added Unfortunately since all the special guys here did that :D What's funny is that we didn't plan that + we don't have a script lol We both commented at the exact same time and I didn't even realize. ######im going to downvote him so I can be the one true "unfortunately" comment
: ***
1 - I don't work for Riot in any way, shape, or form. 2 - Before you start slinging jabs about my "megabrain" not being able to comprehend sarcasm, I was in _favor_ of Nubrac being banned. If you go back in my post history around the time that situation was happening, I constantly talked about how (a large majority of the time) his strategy was considered to be griefing. If you're going to insult someone, you should probably make sure your own information is correct. ________ Going to request a mod lock this thread now, this entire post is just full of people ignoring the evidence, instead choosing to take shots at each other.
: Never trust a friend
Unfortunately, there's no way to get your account back. The punishment itself was warranted (you admitted he broke the rules) but account sharing is a severe offense. Even if you somehow managed to get the original punishment overturned, you would be permanently banned for account sharing. Sorry.
Pyrosan (NA)
: are we in poetry class
A Haiku: _Mundo, ocean soul. Holy shit, he will not die. Better jungle wins._
: ***
>..Removed by Moderation.. Getting really tired of this repetitive and invalid "point." You don't have to be ranked to know the difference between griefing and not griefing. **Focus on the information at hand, not who it's coming from.** Last time I'm responding on this thread since people are choosing to focus on my rank (or lack thereof) rather than the objective information. It's just sad. Wasn't "calling out" OP's rank with malicious intent, the reason I brought it up was relevant to the discussion because this is a **skilled player** on _their main_ who is underperforming, almost intentionally so. It would have been incredibly different if I had said something along the lines of "You're plat and you played this badly? God dude, how much did you buy that account for?" They're more than likely objectively better than me in every conceivable way. Also, just as an aside, my "43% winrate Shen" is from a grand total of 7 games, 5 of which were me screwing around with Hail of Blades, 1 was from me trying out the new Conqueror, the other was a regular game (where I performed incredibly well because I wasn't trying out some stupid gimmick.)
: this Bot shit is getting out of hand
>i am only gonna say this once so pay attention. bots. do. not. exist. They do though? Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist. Go on any lower leveled account and you'll encounter _atleast_ one bot. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. >and these upvote/downvote bots? they are just players who agree/disagree en masse about a particular subject. Except... downvote bots are _actually_ a thing and it's painfully obvious in some scenarios. When a post has been up for 2 minutes and has 30+ upvotes or downvotes, that's obviously botted. When one specific commenter has -20 or more downvotes, they're being target-downvoted.
: Did anyone lose anything from this tho? its pre season everyone is experimenting and having fun until the new season starts. why are you talking about "substantially less effort" everyones playing for fun . yes he infact did do bad (so did his entire team ) he doesnt make a pattern of inting and ruining games tho. To analyze every step and move he made and point a finger and say "yea he inted ban justified" is not the brighest and most just thing . It would be like playing in a game where the score is 30- 6 you have 2 inhibs down and you farm top because you clearly cant contest the fed enemy team pushing mid in . and someone pings you for being top and says "report champion name hes top " . but besides that is him building any other boot going to save this lost game. they were too fed to contest anyway please use a larger sample size than what you have given because on the games and examples you have given are very subjective on whether or not it was "int and should be punished. like its not like he was throwing a winnable game due to purposely poor play. but thanks for the imput these accusations are quite {{summoner:3}} ing to try and explain going through this tiny sample size of what you called "throwing and int"
>Did anyone lose anything from this tho? its pre season everyone is experimenting and having fun until the new season starts. Playing during the preseason can still affect your MMR. So **yes**, people are losing things from this. Not to mention that many people view ranked as a serious environment regardless of the reward. It's about personal growth, and it's hard to grow when someone is griefing or intentionally feeding (in addition to it being against the rules.) >To analyze every step and move he made and point a finger and say "yea he inted ban justified" is not the brighest and most just thing . That's not what I did. I didn't just come in and say "ban deserved gg" I provided evidence, showed OP's history of griefing/intentionally feeding, then gave my input and made my case while showing things I believed to be griefing. > but besides that is him building any other boot going to save this lost game. I'm noticing that everyone is paying attention to the fact that I pointed out the boot choice but not what the _underlying meaning_ of it was. If someone has a substantial history behind them (in this context it's 700k mastery points and basically being a Kindred OTP) and breaks their pattern in two ways - build path and playstyle, that's a **massive** red flag. I choose to believe OP was griefing here, not just due to the boot choice alone, but because of that in addition to the video evidence I provided.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pcInTYKw,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-12-05T03:06:38.555+0000) > > At first I was pretty skeptical, the games didn't look _too_ bad, but I did some more digging and I'm leaning towards this ban being warranted. Let me explain. > > ________ > > ##First and foremost: You never buy mobis on Kindred. Doesn't seem like that big a deal on the surface, but here is why it's important: > > The only other time you've done this was [**in this game right here**](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3201824740/246169660?tab=overview), which I assume was the first time you got punished for intentionally feeding. That game was played on 11/10/19, the next game you played was on 11/24/19. A 14 day gap inbetween these games, I don't think it's a coincidence that the first punishment for intentionally feeding is a 14-day suspension. > > I just think that's very important to note. Buying mobis does not automatically mean someone is intentionally feeding, but when you're punished two times in a row and the first one also had them built, it makes me skeptical and maybe you built them for a reason. > > In almost every one of your games you go tabi and it's **VERY** interesting to me that in a game with a fed Katarina, a fed Miss Fortune, a fed Nidalee, and a strong Riven/Nautilus, defensive boots didn't cross your mind. > > ______________ > > ##Secondly: here's the video evidence of the Kindred game _**(I will edit this comment when I finish the Volibear game)**_ if anyone else wants to follow along and see what I saw. > > https://streamable.com/4tlaq > > [_(Here's the direct link if you want to fullscreen it.)_](https://streamable.com/j68wk) > > Now, in order of the shown clips: > > - **Q'ed into entire enemy team** - Yeah, I think this one is pretty bad. You walked up, underleveled, Q'ed into the entire enemy team, and then died instantly. This was towards the end of the game, so you should have been playing much more defensively and/or, at the very least, not jumping directly into the entire team. > > > - **Walked directly into a fed Nautilus + MF** - Honestly, at first glance this looked like an honest mistake. Maybe you didn't realize they were strong, but either way it seemed a bit fishy and I began to rethink it for various reasons. More on that below. > > > - **Walked directly into a fed Nautilus + MF X2** - This is what made me rethink the above point. The area was warded, your team was not around you, you just walked directly into Nautilus and Miss Fortune again. **(EDIT: And while there's no sound in this video, throughout the majority of this game I can hear your team pinging you to back off.) ** > > - **Walked directly into a fed Nautilus + MF, danced, then walked back in and died.**- Same as the first point, this one is really bad. You walked up into lane, danced, got caught in a combo, flashed out, then kind of half-walked into the enemy team. Something that _everyone_ should be taking into consideration: OP is Plat+ and [**is a 673k mastery point Kindred main. **](https://championmasterylookup.derpthemeus.com/summoner?summoner=AZUL+1v9&region=NA) These just don't look right to me knowing all of that, even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you weren't intentionally feeding, you clearly weren't trying here. It shows. > > __________ > > #Will edit when I finish reviewing the Volibear game. Although you never buy mobis on Kindred, however, if you look at his OPGG, he's actually tried multiple "off-meta" strats with Kindred. He's tried grasp kindred while building tankier/bruiser items, and has had some success with them. I believe that he genuinely tried to experiment with the mobility boots on Kindred. Now to explain the poor scoreline: Having played with OP multiple times, I can personally attest to the fact that he taunts a lot to bait out enemy skill shots as a form of BM. By the looks of the entire game and the timelines/graphs given by opgg, by 5 minutes there was a roughly 3k gold deficit between his team and the others. The game was a large stomp from the opposing team. Due to the nature of Kindred's champion and how she heavily relies on teammates to rotate for marks, OP 100% tilted and started to play poorly. His entire team played horribly and neither of them could enable each other. Him walking into the enemy team and the nautilus & mf was most likely not exclusive to him. I doubt his team put in 100% effort either. Would you play as hard as you could, even if there was a severe gold deficit and the game is 100% doomed?
> [{quoted}](name=dingoduck,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pcInTYKw,comment-id=00090009,timestamp=2019-12-05T04:00:48.586+0000) > > Although you never buy mobis on Kindred, however, if you look at his OPGG, he's actually tried multiple "off-meta" strats with Kindred. He's tried grasp kindred while building tankier/bruiser items, and has had some success with them. I believe that he genuinely tried to experiment with the mobility boots on Kindred. I honestly don't believe that to be the case considering the only other time he "experimented" with them was in one other game where he went 0/14/3 and got flagged for intentionally feeding, which he later admitted to doing: "Again, I do not deny that I have griefed before," > > Now to explain the poor scoreline: > Having played with OP multiple times, I can personally attest to the fact that he taunts a lot to bait out enemy skill shots as a form of BM. By the looks of the entire game and the timelines/graphs given by opgg, by 5 minutes there was a roughly 3k gold deficit between his team and the others. The game was a large stomp from the opposing team. Due to the nature of Kindred's champion and how she heavily relies on teammates to rotate for marks, OP 100% tilted and started to play poorly. His entire team played horribly and neither of them could enable each other. Him walking into the enemy team and the nautilus & mf was most likely not exclusive to him. I doubt his team put in 100% effort either. Would you play as hard as you could, even if there was a severe gold deficit and the game is 100% doomed? Being tilted and behind doesn't justify some of the things OP did, in my opinion (like jumping directly in to 5 people who are all fed and overleveled) If the surrender vote doesn't pass, you continue to put effort in and try to win the game. That's how it should work, doubly so in a ranked environment.
: ***
> Are you serious? Have you ever played in Platinum? You. Cannot. Be. Serious. _**(cont.)**_ As mentioned before, don't need to be ranked to see that this game was incredibly problematic and suspicious. When you change your tone, we can resume this conversation. Have a great day.
: I fail to see how him playing poorly with mobies means hes inting , if you watch the replay which i hardly doubt you did. you can see him going to all his teams fights and helping but dying. he didnt go out of his way to throw the game and any misplay or experimentation in PRESEASON should be fine. he didnt go on a streak of feeding it was 1 game everyone did poorly nobody lost anything and everyone moved on. and to comment on "dancing before you die" i do it too to bait out a play from the enemy and from bm they usually try to fight you and sometimes you get caught or it doesnt work out and you die, it happens. And in a game where the nidalee was extremely fed chasing him out of his jungle ofc hes going to be under leveled and to compare him to a botlane that was 2-14 that got rolled is dumb in itself. Atleast if you're going to accuse him of something come with facts and not hard speculations. thanks youre friendly neighborhood {{champion:114}} main :)
> I fail to see how him playing poorly with mobies means hes inting , if you watch the replay which i hardly doubt you did. **you can see him going to all his teams fights and helping but dying**. he didnt go out of his way to throw the game and any misplay or experimentation in PRESEASON should be fine. I watched the full game multiple times, OP did _not_ do this. There were a few fights where they tried, yes, but OP put in substantially less effort after a certain point and every fight was simply them walking in, flashing mastery, and then standing still while autoing and/or making a poor effort to escape.
: ***
Genuinely curious, why does that matter so much? How does that change the objectivity of the information I've shared? Why do I have to have a badge under my belt to give valid input? There's video evidence there. I may not be ranked, but I understand the basics of the game and playing from behind well enough to know that a **Platinum ranked 700k Kindred OTP **should not be playing this way. That's where this discussion starts and ends.
: ***
I don't need to be ranked to know that jumping into 4 fed enemies is suspicious. I don't need to be ranked to know that dancing in front of two enemies, getting combo'ed, flashing out, then walking back in to die is suspicious. Look at the information, not who it's coming from. Thanks.
: ***
You can intentionally feed or grief without directly walking it down a lane. There are other ways to do it. Such as jumping directly into the enemy team while a minimum of 4 levels behind. >..Removed by Moderation.. I didn't say that you "can never buy boots on Kindred." Please read the entire paragraph, I clearly pointed out that OP habitually buys tabi and/or mercs, and the only other time they ever bought mobility boots was when they were punished for intentionally feeding.
AZUL 1V9 (NA)
: mistakenly Banned
At first I was pretty skeptical, the games didn't look _too_ bad, but I did some more digging and I'm leaning towards this ban being warranted. Let me explain. ________ ##First and foremost: You never buy mobis on Kindred. Doesn't seem like that big a deal on the surface, but here is why it's important: The only other time you've done this was [**in this game right here**](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3201824740/246169660?tab=overview), which I assume was the first time you got punished for intentionally feeding. That game was played on 11/10/19, the next game you played was on 11/24/19. A 14 day gap inbetween these games, I don't think it's a coincidence that the first punishment for intentionally feeding is a 14-day suspension. I just think that's very important to note. Buying mobis does not automatically mean someone is intentionally feeding, but when you're punished two times in a row and the first one also had them built, it makes me skeptical and maybe you built them for a reason. In almost every one of your games you go tabi and it's **VERY** interesting to me that in a game with a fed Katarina, a fed Miss Fortune, a fed Nidalee, and a strong Riven/Nautilus, defensive boots didn't cross your mind. ______________ ##Secondly: here's the video evidence of the Kindred game _**(I will edit this comment when I finish the Volibear game)**_ if anyone else wants to follow along and see what I saw. https://streamable.com/4tlaq [_(Here's the direct link if you want to fullscreen it.)_](https://streamable.com/j68wk) Now, in order of the shown clips: - **Q'ed into entire enemy team** - Yeah, I think this one is pretty bad. You walked up, underleveled, Q'ed into the entire enemy team, and then died instantly. This was towards the end of the game, so you should have been playing much more defensively and/or, at the very least, not jumping directly into the entire team. - **Walked directly into a fed Nautilus + MF** - Honestly, at first glance this looked like an honest mistake. Maybe you didn't realize they were strong, but either way it seemed a bit fishy and I began to rethink it for various reasons. More on that below. - **Walked directly into a fed Nautilus + MF X2** - This is what made me rethink the above point. The area was warded, your team was not around you, you just walked directly into Nautilus and Miss Fortune again. **(EDIT: And while there's no sound in this video, throughout the majority of this game I can hear your team pinging you to back off.) ** - **Walked directly into a fed Nautilus + MF, danced, then walked back in and died.**- Same as the first point, this one is really bad. You walked up into lane, danced, got caught in a combo, flashed out, then kind of half-walked into the enemy team. Something that _everyone_ should be taking into consideration: OP is Plat+ and [**is a 673k mastery point Kindred main. **](https://championmasterylookup.derpthemeus.com/summoner?summoner=AZUL+1v9&region=NA) These just don't look right to me knowing all of that, even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you weren't intentionally feeding, you clearly weren't trying here. It shows. __________ #Update: Volibear game reviewed [](https://.) Nothing too bad in this game. Sifted through once on 8x speed, another time on 4x speed. Looked at all the death and teamfight bookmarks, nothing out of the ordinary. The only thing that happened was OP left at 31 minutes after a teamfight death, the game ended at 33 minutes. Honestly, that's a mistake anyone could make (thinking the game is over and preemptively leaving) and while it's not ideal, it usually doesn't get flagged as griefing. _Maybe_ it was included because OP was punished for it previously in that above Kindred game, but I'm leaning towards it just being a mistake. Either way; yeah, OP's first game was super suspicious and given that they have a history of intentionally feeding, I personally am very skeptical. I encourage you to research and decide for yourselves, however. Please just stay on topic and keep your comments civil. Have a great day y'all.
: @Riot: Give us a way to report people in champ select
For something to be reportable or punishable, there has to be action taken and evidence of it. If someone says "I'm going to feed" and hovers Nunu with Ghost/Cleanse, that's not reportable until they actually start doing it. It's unfortunate (because there are most certainly people who do things like that to make you dodge or genuinely will intentionally feed) but you can't really ban someone for just making an empty threat like that.
Kamakas (EUW)
: > Well, remember that the Boards are an incredibly small portion of the community (not even 1% most likely), everyone here could agree that the punishment was unwarranted but that still wouldn't be indicative of there being a gap in the public knowledge. Honestly this feels patronizing at this point lol, not to mention straight up false from the statistical point of view, you could easily make pretty accurate assumptions about the whole western playerbase from lets say the answers of 100 people, in this kind of yes/no question. Although I obviously have not conducted any research on "how many people would agree this warrants a ban" (although this very post was to have an idea about it) and I don't have some empirical data to present to you, I have been playing this game for years, I can't see how anyone else playing in similar environment could not see, that the average player _definately_ is not aware you can be banned for calling someone dumb and being negative to the extent I demonstrated in my last game. > No disrespect, I think at that point you should take responsibility for your own actions. You received a notice that explicitly stated any further negativity (such as the three prior punishments you received) would result in a permanent ban. You really can't get much more transparent than that, and as mentioned previously the information was readily available for you to research. I have not even opened a ticket and I have said very clearly I am not trying to get the ban revoked, how would you like me to _take responsibility for my actions_? My past offences are not relevent to my behavior, if i did not know you can get punished for this - again, this is why i made this post, to see if I'm the extreme minority here or not.
> Honestly this feels patronizing at this point lol, not to mention straight up false from the statistical point of view, you could easily make pretty accurate assumptions about the whole western playerbase from lets say the answers of 100 people, in this kind of yes/no question. Sorry if it came across as patronizing, that wasn't my intent. My point was that the Boards are impossibly small compared to Reddit and Twitter, using that as a platform for gauging a public perception won't give you good, accurate results. > Although I obviously have not conducted any research on "how many people would agree this warrants a ban" (although this very post was to have an idea about it) and I don't have some empirical data to present to you, I have been playing this game for years, I can't see how anyone else playing in similar environment could not see, that the average player _definately_ is not aware you can be banned for calling someone dumb and being negative to the extent I demonstrated in my last game. >I have not even opened a ticket and I have said very clearly I am not trying to get the ban revoked, how would you like me to _take responsibility for my actions_? My past offences are not relevent to my behavior, if i did not know you can get punished for this - again, this is why i made this post, to see if I'm the extreme minority here or not. _________ That responsibility comment was directed towards this part of your reply when you said: >"Yes, I did get the "Any continued negativity will result in a permanent ban." statement, but because I wasn't aware how easily you can get punished, it didn't prevent me from getting banned." I wasn't talking to you in particular, I should have made that more clear and repeatedly using "you" was a horrible idea. My point was that if someone is trying to say the warning(s) aren't enough, that's not really fair or correct to say as that excuse can only take someone so far. Receiving a 10 or 25 game chat restriction is understandable, mistakes happen, but most people will never go further than a 14-day suspension because at that point the system isn't to blame, they're the ones violating the rules that have been made clear to them on multiple occasions. Even if you look at some of the actual surveys/posts conducted, most players have no issues understanding the rules. [**Twitter post by Nasteey with about 300+ entrants.**](https://twitter.com/Nasteeylol/status/1191784038740049920) [**Reddit post by user Aszelee with almost 5,000 votes.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/bt1kgr/poll_have_you_ever_been_banned_from_league_of/) [**Strawpoll results from the above post**](https://www.strawpoll.me/18054580/r) If you didn't understand that and/or the punishment system as a whole, that's fine and no disrespect to you. But I'm just answering the main question of your post.
Cõmega (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xEuu4wKA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-01T22:20:25.611+0000) > > Did you report the post? The moderators are volunteers, they don't spend 100% of their free time sifting through every post/comment that's made here. > > And if you did report the post, you most likely have to give it more than twenty minutes. I read that entire comment chain, it'll be a second before anything gets removed. Yeah i reported it for harassment. A mod even went into the tread and posted a comment.
In that case, I guess you'll just have to wait and see. I know the mods do have a report queue but I'm not entirely sure how they handle it (like if any mod is allowed to tackle any case or if they have shifts, etc.)
Cõmega (NA)
: Inconsistency with the mod team
Did you report the post? The moderators are volunteers, they don't spend 100% of their free time sifting through every post/comment that's made here. And if you did report the post, you most likely have to give it more than twenty minutes. I read that entire comment chain, it'll be a second before anything gets removed.
: Use this one instead (Riot-backed so they have the closest to actual data a site can get to) https://u.gg/lol/champions/jax/build?role=top Hes 50% winrate in top, 49.86% in jungle. Hes perfectly fine.
I usually check both u.gg and League of Graphs, I find those two to be the most consistently accurate sites. IMO op.gg is the worst by far. I know they generally only supply statistics from Korea until they have enough games played, but even then their information just seems to be so off that it's not even worth checking.
Kamakas (EUW)
: Thank you, that actually answers my question about the punishment severity between "standard" and "extreme" toxicity, I didn't know that. At least there is _some_ difference. Although, I feel if many people find in this particular case, that the punishment is not warranted, there is a gap between what players know is punishable and what Riot is punishing for. So if this kind of behaviour, calling someone dumb/showing negative attitude in-game, is punishable, then looking at the standard ladder of punishment you showed, 4 games like this can get you permanently banned from this game. Looking back to my games and the players I know, I honestly think most of the community is not aware of this. I mean of all the cases I have seen from reddit or elsewhere about players being toxic and getting banned, I can't remember anyone getting banned for calling someone dumb in-game. So the system of punishment for chat related offences is currently like this: for the worst toxicity/racism/death threats you get 1 warning - 2 week ban before a permanent ban. For calling someone dumb/showing negative attitude, you get 3 warnings before a permanent ban. This kind of punishment system honestly seems dumb do me and should be improved. Anyways, as I wrote in my first post, I'm not here to try to get the ban overturned or justifice my own actions, just ask the people if they think it's warranted and to see if they are aware this kind of behaviour is bannable. Yes, I did get the "Any continued negativity will result in a permanent ban." statement, but because I wasn't aware how easily you can get punished, it didn't prevent me from getting banned.
> Although, I feel if many people find in this particular case, that the punishment is not warranted, there is a gap between what players know is punishable and what Riot is punishing for. Well, remember that the Boards are an incredibly small portion of the community (not even 1% most likely), everyone here could agree that the punishment was unwarranted but that still wouldn't be indicative of there being a gap in the public knowledge. Also, while I'm currently a Specialist on the Boards, I knew about the punishment ladder long before I even started posting here. When I got my first 10 game chat restriction on my now-permabanned main account, it took maybe 15-30 seconds to figure out how the system worked. The information is readily available and even if it wasn't, you already received three prior punishments for this same behavior. > So if this kind of behaviour, calling someone dumb/showing negative attitude in-game, is punishable, then looking at the standard ladder of punishment you showed, 4 games like this can get you permanently banned from this game. Looking back to my games and the players I know, I honestly think most of the community is not aware of this. I mean of all the cases I have seen from reddit or elsewhere about players being toxic and getting banned, I can't remember anyone getting banned for calling someone dumb in-game. Just to clear up any misconceptions, that's not all you did. You asked for reports, called someone out for their score and inability to perform, had a negative attitude, and argued (albeit briefly) with your teammates. That being said you also did this 3 times in total, playing through a full 35 games with your chat restricted, waited out a full 2 week suspension, and received reform cards every step of the way. Even if someone doesn't necessarily agree with the rules, that's ample time to understand what behavior is punishable and change it accordingly. > So the system of punishment for chat related offences is currently like this: for the worst toxicity/racism/death threats you get 1 warning - 2 week ban before a permanent ban. For calling someone dumb/showing negative attitude, you get 3 warnings before a permanent ban. This kind of punishment system honestly seems dumb do me and should be improved. IMO it's fine, I think it's lenient enough on people and receiving more chances really wouldn't change anything. If you feel differently, that's your opinion and you're welcome to have it. > Anyways, as I wrote in my first post, I'm not here to try to get the ban overturned or justifice my own actions, just ask the people if they think it's warranted and to see if they are aware this kind of behaviour is bannable. Yes, I did get the "Any continued negativity will result in a permanent ban." statement, but because I wasn't aware how easily you can get punished, it didn't prevent me from getting banned. No disrespect, I think at that point you should take responsibility for your own actions. You received a notice that explicitly stated any further negativity (such as the three prior punishments you received) would result in a permanent ban. You really can't get much more transparent than that, and as mentioned previously the information was readily available for you to research.
Stratixx (NA)
: Automatic ban system doing more wrong than right.
>Had a friend who was in a flex 5v5 with both premades and he won. His whole team was reported by the enemies and was permanently banned. I took a look at his ban report, and he had said nothing. First and foremost, reports **do not** stack. Whether he was reported by one player or nine, the end result would have been the same. Secondly, did he say _nothing_ as in not a single line of chat or did he say things that you personally don't believe were banworthy? In any case; it's pointless to try and discuss a punishment without seeing the evidence or game in question. If your friend really believes that he is innocent, have him post here or get the chat logs. >Remove the automatic ban system and hire people to overview bans please. An automated system is the only way to deal with a game of League's caliber. Hiring a full-time team of employees that work around the clock would bankrupt the company and result in less consistent, less timely punishments.
Kamakas (EUW)
: Do you think this should warrant a permanent ban?
Something everyone is glossing over is that while OP's punishments may not have been for anything severe, they were still punishments all the same. When you receive any punishment, you're warned that further offenses will lead to more severe punishments down the line, up to and including a permanent suspension. On the 14-day suspension reform card, it explicitly states that "_Any_ continued negativity will result in a permanent ban." Imagine you're in a store with 2 other people, the shopkeeper and another customer. The other customer pushes a rack over ruining a bunch of merchandise and making a mess of the place, they're immediately kicked out. You disrupt a customer, the shopkeeper asks you not to do that again. You do it again, the shopkeeper asks you _again,_ a little more sternly, to not do that. You do it one more time and the shopkeeper shouts, telling you that the next time you bother a customer, you **will** be kicked out. _Any_ disruption **no matter how big or small** will get you kicked out, or in this case, permanently banned, because you have been warned multiple times and you're on your last straw. Your account was pretty much hanging off a cliff, you exhausted all your chances and Riot specifically said "Hey, if you do this again, you're out." It's unfortunate that you got suspended, but even these short logs have problematic elements in them like asking for reports, giving up early/begging your team to FF, and insulting or disrespecting other players (namely "what a joke", calling out the score differences.) >The problem in my opinion is the automatic system of punishments. Once you have been punished before, the next punishment seems to automatically be harsher than the last one, in a strick defined line. **(cont.)** >If I am right, being extremely racist is considered the same as saying "ok u are dumb" in Riots eyes. That is not correct and not how the system functions. There are two separate ladders for punishments, we're going to focus on the chat related one. The standard ladder is as follows: [](https://.) ##10 game chat restriction > 25 game chat restriction > 14 day suspension > Permanent suspension [](https://.) When you violate the rules with "standard" toxicity (swearing at other users, calling for reports, etc.) you gradually move up the ladder until you reach a permanent suspension. When you use **zero-tolerance** language (term used for any racist, homophobic, sexist, or other discriminatory slurs + death threats) you immediately receive a 14-day suspension, one step away from a permanent ban. The end result is the same, yes, as both players are permanently banned, but being extremely racist is treated with much more severe, immediate punishments. "Ok you are dumb" is not on the same level.
: Weird, my post was deleted by the mods as harrassment even though I was quoting the OP's chat. Hotarµ did the same thing and his post wasn't removed. What gives Mods? Anyway, what I had said was saying "f&*k you Gankplank" and using hate speech will get you a ban. You need to look at why you are so angry and figure out better ways to deal with it. Punch a pillow or something instead of typing it into chat. Punishment deserved.
Your comment was most likely removed because of our [**updated Player Behavior guidelines. **](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/OjEUxbwH-player-behavior-rules-update) More specifically: >##Be Helpful >In general, all responses should assume good intent on the part of the poster, even if there is strong evidence to the contrary. The only exception is when Riot officially presents evidence of misbehavior. >Most people who come to Player Behavior after a ban or chat restriction are frustrated, angry or upset. It is important that our responses remain positive and come from a genuine desire to help them understand what happened and why. Replies that are overly negative, dismissive or combative are not appropriate and may be removed. >These include (but are not limited to): >Telling people you’re glad they’re banned. Low-effort taunts such as the Rammus “ok”. Saying the community is better off without them. PB isn't the place to come in and simply say "Punishment deserved, bye" (which you did do in your original comment) but rather to educate and help someone understand what specifically got them punished. I understand you did have portions of that in your comment, but it was most likely the aforementioned comment that got it removed for harassment.
HighK3y (NA)
: Any Insight would be helpful
Most tickets take an average of a 2 or more days to be addressed, but given that a bunch of people are having issues with/complaining about the new username changes, I'd imagine it could take a lot longer. Just be patient and _don't_ update or bump your ticket in any way, that will move it to the back of the queue and you'll have to wait even longer. Sorry, GL with your issue and I hope you get it fixed.
: I'm Just Trying to Play an AI Game
League is one of the largest games in the world and it's completely free-to-play, the issue of bots will always be there. It's unfortunate, but that's just how it is.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EyEMiolM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-01T17:56:59.901+0000) > > Doran's Blade and Doran's Ring are incredibly cost efficient for the stats they give, they're very good items. Doran's Shield less so, but in some cases it's still better than starting a Ruby Crystal or Cloth Armor+Beads if your laner is going to be bullying you a lot. > > I'd like to see Cull reworked somehow, and I'd also like to see some sort of attack speed-based starting item introduced. Just something to help out slower champions (Varus, Kalista, Kog'Maw, etc.) in the early game. > > Nothing crazy, maybe like: > - 450g > - +4 AD > - +8% Attack Speed > - Unique passive - Deal 3 bonus physical damage to minions on-hit. > > I'm not too big a fan of giving starter items quests or more advanced passives, I like the idea of buying an item and just forgetting about it until you need item slots. It leaves things uncomplicated and also makes early game duels (levels 1-3) more reliant on your kit and how you play rather than what item you chose. yeah the biggest problem for me with the starter items as they are is when you get to say 2 items (and likely boots) you then have the whole "well do i sell this now and lose some stats but get further along in the build at the cost of a few stats" I feel like maybe even if at say 10 and 15 minutes the starter items gain a flat amount of stats {{item:1055}} goes from say 8 ad to 10 to 12 and the lifesteal increases to 4% then 5% {{item:1056}} >65 health> 70 health and the ap goes >20 then to >25 AP {{item:1054}} >100 health >120 health and i think an attack speed starter could be interesting really just to kind of allow them to be better independent items (that would likely sell for a little less because they were more valuable for longer i'd guess) but idk it was just an idea i had although Idk what cull would change to
> I feel like maybe even if at say 10 and 15 minutes > the starter items gain a flat amount of stats {{item:1055}} goes from say 8 ad to 10 to 12 and the lifesteal increases to 4% then 5% > {{item:1056}} >65 health> 70 health and the ap goes >20 then to >25 AP > {{item:1054}} >100 health >120 health > and i think an attack speed starter could be interesting I think that would be a really cool addition but it would have to be limited to 1 starter item per person. As I mentioned above, Doran's Blade and Doran's Ring in particular are _super_ gold efficient and if they kept growing in stats like that, people would probably just build 4 starter items + boots until they completed their first regular item lol > although Idk what cull would change to I really liked the idea they had with Cull, but the biggest problem is that if they make the gold generation _too_ good (to make you focus on farming more) everyone is just going to take it and early game fights will never be a thing. The meta of bot would shift towards more passive and safer early game playstyles which would create for a really boring environment. Might be cool if they changed it to some sort of lifesteal or shield based starter item? Again, just spitballing ideas here but something like: >_Cull_ - +4 AD - +3 HP on-hit - Unique passive: Dealing 150 damage to minions will make your next attack heal you for 30 HP. 15 second cooldown. I could see it working for early game bullies or just people who want to play a bit more passively. I just think the gold generation of our current Cull is holding it back too much, you know?
Sirsir (NA)
: People are conflicted. The boards rages about her, but I haven't seen one be anything more than annoying. Everyone I talk to in game feels the same way. Probably just the boards being the echo chamber it's always been.
Even if you go outside of the usual echo-chamber that is the Boards, her statistics are pretty ridiculous. She's got _atleast_ a 20% playrate, 52-55%+ winrate, and a 50-60%+ banrate across the board. While some of that is definitely due in large part to her being new, she seems to be a pretty dominant champion.
: On a completely separate note from today's theme; STARTER ITEMS ARE LAME
Doran's Blade and Doran's Ring are incredibly cost efficient for the stats they give, they're very good items. Doran's Shield less so, but in some cases it's still better than starting a Ruby Crystal or Cloth Armor+Beads if your laner is going to be bullying you a lot. I'd like to see Cull reworked somehow, and I'd also like to see some sort of attack speed-based starting item introduced. Just something to help out slower champions (Varus, Kalista, Kog'Maw, etc.) in the early game. Nothing crazy, maybe like: >_Doran's Dagger_ - 450g - +4 AD - +8% Attack Speed - Unique passive - Deal 3 bonus physical damage to minions on-hit. I'm not too big a fan of giving starter items quests or more advanced passives, I like the idea of buying an item and just forgetting about it until you need item slots. It leaves things uncomplicated and also makes early game duels (levels 1-3) more reliant on your kit and how you play rather than what item you chose.
: fuq my god damn life and this company, imagine geting banned for this
If you were permanently banned for these logs, that means you have a history of punishment. You were already given a 10-game chat restriction, a 25-game chat restriction, and a 2 week suspension, each of which came with a reform card that specifically said more severe punishments were coming unless you changed your behavior. Speaking to these logs in particular: you're asking for reports, giving up early/have a negative attitude, and insulting other players. >[All]xXxD3m0nKillerGO: report janna xXxD3m0nKillerGO: i would rather lose in 15minutes then still b eplaying this with that clown bot xXxD3m0nKillerGO: fuck you gankplank [All]xXxD3m0nKillerGO: dude imagine losing as gp to nasus as last pick When you've gotten off a 2-week suspension and have been given a reform card that explicitly states "_Any_ continued negativity will result in a permanent suspension.", this type of behavior will most certainly warrant a permanent ban.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ATKtn9RP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-01T14:21:21.297+0000) > > How about nerfing Jax ? > > That sounds better Why. He has a sub 50% win rate right now. If you are losing to him you are doing something wrong
Actually, he's at a 50% winrate across all elos. Where are you getting your statistics from? https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/jax/ https://www.op.gg/champion/jax/statistics/top https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Jax/ The only website to suggest Jax is sub-50 is Champion.GG but I often find that website to be horribly outdated or flat out incorrect. Also, even if that were true that Jax was at a sub 50% winrate, I think that's fine given he had such a dominant period _and_ he's a popular champion. IMO, popular champions should rest anywhere from a 48-50% winrate. That's a good indicator that they're fine.
: ew taking coin on Pyke {{item:3857}} execute item or bust
Coin was meta on Pyke for an incredibly long time. It's removal definitely hurt him a bit.
: playing pyke doesnt feel fun anymore :/
Pyke is supposed to get bullied early. This is how he is meant to be played, you have to play very carefully and not make any mistakes; the payoff is one of the most rewarding ultimates in the game. And on a personal note, I still think he's incredibly fun.
afmghost (NA)
: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation
> [{quoted}](name=afmghost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=sR0ubGq2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-30T16:16:44.669+0000) > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation General Discussion is a catch-all board. Anything and everything can go here _or_ in the "correct" board.
KaluKalu (EUNE)
: ok, go play yasuo
Uh... ??? Assuming that's because of my icon, I just think it looks cool man.
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Hotarµ

Level 280 (NA)
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