Lokidosi (NA)
: no, ur literally wrong. the amount of reports doesn't make a difference. What you say makes a difference. the n word, f word, kys and others will get you instantly banned if reported. If you dont type anything and get reported then you wont be punished. It's an automatic ban system that looks what was said and ur score relative to the time in the game (to check if ur inting)
That's not entirely true; I've seen people get punished when all they do is ping and never type but he still got a chat ban last week.
: Patch 9.16 notes
Can we please get a Hextech support champ besides Alistar? I've had 12 gemstones for years now but have yet to have a skin to spend them on since I'm a support main and Alistar has a 3% playrate outside of pro and I'm not one of those 3%. Every other role has at least 2 gemstone skins and all support gets is fucking Alistar; you could've at least chosen Thresh for the warden slot, I may not play him but he at least sees play in solo Q. Please just give us an Enchanter or Mage support gemstone skin, we've been waiting patiently for 3 years now. Hextech Zyra or Breathstealer Janna would be sick as fuck.
: Why the fuck do you guys just constantly delete features? Ever since the new client dropped it is STILL missing features the old client had. for what fucking purpose does the legacy cursor need to be removed? all you cause from it are the people that prefer it over the new one to get upset. literally nothing is gained from this stupid decision.
It reminds me of Google's official stance on releasing new tech; they'd "rather focus on releasing new and innovative products than on refining or perfecting a product."
: no its not bro just use it and get used to it its real simple its a fucking cursor at some point u forget its there
That's you mate, obviously not everyone has had that experience, the unique shape and the colour of the old cursor made it far less likely to blend in with champ models in fights. I have been using it because I expected the forced change, but the grey of the old cursor is much easier for me to follow, not to mention the shape which is easier to follow as well. Considering the community reaction I'm not abnormal in this opinion. I could get into the neuroscience as to why the old cursor was easier to follow but I doubt you'd care.
: I prefer the legacy mouse but it doesn't change gameplay. Comparing the two doesn't even make sense. Clarity of gameplay is done by the balance team and champ/skin design team.
It does impact gameplay when it's harder to follow in a teamfight.
: hardly anyone used it and it probably caused a bunch of bugs
I don't know anyone that used the new cursor, it's garbage.
Kritty (NA)
: That, my friend, was sarcasm.
Sorry, sarcasm is hard to catch on the internet. lol
metamilo (NA)
: Their average response time for critical issues on TT is 6-9 months. Expect it to work after preseason. I mean, it's not like it has a ranked queue or anything.
It has a ranked queue and it counts towards your end of season rewards.
: I expected nothing and was still disappointed. Make up your mind on what you want him to be please. {{sticker:galio-happy}}
I miss the real Galio, not a big fan of the pro wrestler champ they replaced him with.
: So when do we remove Galio from the game since not that many people use it, or zz'rot, or Unsealed Spellbook?
They already removed Galio and replaced him with a pro wrestler with wings awhile ago. lol
: Sona's haste is a bit underwhelming as is, and her heals can be negated if someone has an item with grievous wounds. Also sona has a lot of counterpicks against her such as blitz, thresh, pyke, sivir, morgana, ziggs, ashe, Caitlyn, almost all junglers, Varus, anyone with stun immunity, anyone with iron locket of Solari, anyone with a spell shield or has items that grant spell shields, ap resistance champs or items, and the many mages who can outdamage her. Oh and anyone who can silence her or cc her.
Sona's power is in the late game with her W spam and Diminuendo. I honestly feel that Diminuendo gives a ton of hidden power to her kit because it's basically a mini exhaust she can keep up constantly making it really tough to burn through her heals and shields even with G-wounds.
: Caitlyn's abilities look far too magic-y now. If you were to look just at the particle animation I wouldn't be able to tell it was a sniper bullet from a gun. Please tone it down and make it look more physical and practical.
No lie if she duo'd with Brand it would fuck me up in the bot lane for a bit at least.
: Wow 100$ to spend in a dead game. Incredible.
Stexe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lintu Puck,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=O1QfF7qw,comment-id=00020009,timestamp=2019-02-20T00:14:13.415+0000) > > because if a character looks burly or heavily armored that gives the visual cue of the character being tanky. > Kayle is not a tank, she is DPS, so instead of being Samus with pair of big ol wings, we instead have Zero Suit Samus with 6 smaller wings. > > as for Morgana her wings are bound, and due to this we don't really see her mid-wings, thus leaving the hip wings the most prominent visual pair on her model. True. That is the best justification I've heard so far. But I don't think it needs to be THAT form fitting.
With Asians being the primary audience this is to be expected; they like the sexy cosplayable characters.
: Wait, why are you sad about it? Frostfang top is the most unfun thing in the world to play against? And anyone who played it was pretty scummy.
Because I'm a support main and this seriously hurts for solo Q because ADC's choose poor times to back and it further ties my gold to the rando I'm forced to play with.
: Patch 9.4 Notes
Well another patch of not playing. Fuck the frostfang change.
: Patch 9.2 notes
I know this will be unpopular with a lot of junglers here, but as a support main I actually want junglers to need to gank; there is only one truly PvP role in the game out of 5 right now and it's about time that changed in my opinion. I also just get really tired of junglers living in the jungle until 6 or later and then bitching that the laner lost the counter matchup they should've been assisting from the start, or that a hypercarry wasn't shutdown pre-6 while they're still vulnerable or downright weak. Personally I think that hard farming in the jungle should be a fringe case tactic a jungler can use to respond to certain enemy jungler tactics if they're willing or able to abandon their lanes to the enemy jungler. However I don't think it should be the default or predominant tactic. That style of play simply isn't conducive to a team based game, and is oftentimes a major point of conflict for laners and junglers. There's also a deeper strategic point going on with the jungle changes but I won't get into that right now as I'm out of time at the moment. lol
: It fucking sucks. It would be better if they nerfed gold and xp AND decreased camp respawn time, rewarding junglers for actually pathing and farming well. All this will do is make the jungle even more PVP oriented. Get ready for S9 jungle meta where sit in a lane for the entire game.
I know this will be unpopular with a lot of junglers here, but as a support main I actually want junglers to need to gank; there is only one truly PvP role in the game out of 5 right now and it's about time that changed in my opinion. I also just get really tired of junglers living in the jungle until 6 or later and then bitching that the laner lost the counter matchup they should've been assisting from the start, or that a hypercarry wasn't shutdown pre-6 while they're still vulnerable or downright weak. Personally I think that hard farming in the jungle should be a fringe case tactic a jungler can use to respond to certain enemy jungler tactics if they're willing or able to abandon their lanes to the enemy jungler. However I don't think it should be the default or predominant tactic. That style of play simply isn't conducive to a team based game, and is oftentimes a major point of conflict for laners and junglers. There's also a deeper strategic point going on with the jungle changes but I won't get into that right now as I'm out of time at the moment. lol
Dèlren (NA)
: I main'd jungle for two seasons back to back now. This season (at least towards the end) most junglers could sit back and perfectly path and be ahead of solo laners without a single gank. Now if you perfectly path and follow up into a gank, you are now a snowball that can be almost impossible to stop. These changes are forcing junglers to take risks and look for ganks, as well as going for more of a counter jungling path to stay ahead. When before you could sit in your own jungle almost all game and be ahead of everyone in xp and gold (as long as your lanes weren't inting). This change is mainly goign to affect high elo game play. Low Elo/average junglers will need to adapt and learn how to path better for the most xp possible. Which means going for more early scuttle crabs, and even fighting over the enemy krugs.
preach brorizard!
Ðiamant (NA)
: If Sylas stole your ultimate, what power would he get?
: Thx but I do not think one can assume RNG as the abbreviation of Random Number Generator in the context of league of legends with a great team known as RNG as well. It leads to confusion.
RNG meant Random Number Generator (or God) long before League was a twinkle in Riot's eye, that's why the team chose that name. So unless one is specifically talking about the team "RNG" it's likely referring to Random Number God as that's the original and more general use. G'damn you make me feel old.
Beârs (NA)
: Medieval Twitch & Grey Warwick were originally rewards for recruit a friend system that they removed. That is how some people have them without being honor 5.
Yes I know, I'm one of those people. My point is that the skins aren't exactly exclusive to honours and its a "feels bad" point.
BigT (NA)
: Why not just bring back another Legacy skin each year like Riot Blitzcrank or Traditional Trundle? It would have more impact than a chroma.
I think you mean limited mate. Like Rusty Blitz, King Rammus, or Black Alistar; and just like Medieval Twitch and Grey WW used to be. Limited skins can't be bought and were generally exclusive rewards for programs in the early days of LoL.
Stexe (NA)
: Still waiting for some compensation for getting the skins before the Honor program included them... =/ Feels bad that I did a ton of referrals for these skins and didn't even get a loading screen bonus. Plus, a few other LE skins are missing their loading screen bonuses too... /sigh
Yeah it always feels bad to have limited skins opened up for easier acquisition like this or god forbid store purchase.
grarrrg (NA)
: S7 was a random chance of skin or not. S8 was guaranteed skin.
Levels are new and mean nothing about your play back then, secondly it was a random drop from honour chests in the early days of honour, was available through refer a friend before that, and for a very short time was (presumably) unintentionally available through shards from chests; in other words it's far from exclusive to H-5, and should be replaced/accompanied by an "Honourguard" skin line or something of the like. I maxed at H-3 and have played very little due to my need to travel for work and my health and am only lvl-56 and was only a "defender of the League" before the IP --> BE switch despite playing since S-5 and yet still have Grey WW from back then just from luck in my H-3 capsule.
: How does it have anything to do with RNG???
you got it from honour capsules as a chance drop
: I got 2 accounts, this account gets H5 for 2 seasons and only received Grey WW in S8, nothing received in S7 for H5. The other account gets H3 in S7 and H5 in S8, received both skins in 2017 according to the date shown by the system. Excuse me? Can someone help explain this???
These skins weren't always honour exclusive, some people have never been H-5 and own one or both because they've been playing long enough to have obtained them another way before they became exclusive to H-5 or even before honour levels were a thing.
: Medieval Twitch & Grey Warwick Honor 5 Chromas
So I take it this means that if I have 1 then I won't be able to earn the chroma by hitting H-5 as I'll get the other instead? That blows a fat one. Any chance we'll get honour skins for more than just an ADC and jungler? or maybe some skins that are actually exclusive to honour as opposed to just recycled limited skins that some older players already have even if they've never been H-5? I think that would be a step in the right direction to fixing the current issue with _prestige_ skins and chromas.
: Hmm... is there something wrong if I have been honor 5 every season since it released and I *don't* have both of these skins? I got grey WW this year, but don't have Medieval Twtich.
Funny since some people have never been H5 and have 1 or both. Gotta love _exclusive_ shit. lol
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Crit Item Explorations Part 2
Keep Spear of Shogin as it is on Nexus Blitz, the defensive option for full AD stackers is really nice and feels appropriate for fighters. Phantom Dancer's defensive passive has always provided a fun skill dependent defensive option for crit users, you should make it more appropriate for ranged champions or turn it into an assassin item, but giving it lifeline just feels shitty.
: If you can only get the prestige points from buying shit then it kinda removes the sense of _prestige_ from it; please make these prestige points unlock from in-game achievements with chests and bundles being purely additive, just like how buying chests earns tokens but the primary way to earn tokens is still missions.
Here's a thought: grant prestige points when someone gets an S (maybe even base it on their mastery with that champ to reward play past M-7) and have capsules and bundles grant prestige points and/or potentially a boost for the next day or so, making S's grant an extra point or better yet making A's grant one prestige point during that time.
: Prestige Points and new prestige edition skins
If you can only get the prestige points from buying shit then it kinda removes the sense of _prestige_ from it; please make these prestige points unlock from in-game achievements with chests and bundles being purely additive, just like how buying chests earns tokens but the primary way to earn tokens is still missions.
: It’s time for November bundles!
Häxel (EUW)
: > I'm not going waste my time spoon-feeding you I know you don't. Using actual sources would be a thing for inteligent people sry to say. But again you mix things up. > They also covered that you'll get access to random champs faster with the new system but it takes ~1/4-1/3 more to get the BE for specific champs compared to the old system. You don't get to just say "no" to the fact that Riot said it bud, it's not my fault you don't read their posts and don't know what's going on or why. Yes on the first part as i told it. No on the secodn part. i read every post and in no way they said you take longer for the champions you want. You can simply reroll the shards into be and still get faster to the champs as before. ONLY if you played every day 8 games you would maybe get less but even then riot buffed shardoutcome so the number of games per day needed for less be as ip before should be even higher. And THAT you can easy read up. > And yes, they did use the word "fail" when they said that their attempts to offer meaningful choices and variance in the pre-game failed and that they needed to re-evaluate the outdated system and come up with something new. They also said the same thing in several discussions I had on the forums with Rioters And you need to see runes and masteries as 2 diffrent systesma s they sued to be. One year of palying runes reforged and you allready mix all up. They said maybe masteries failed to give meaningfull choices. That is right. But runes were never implemented to give much choices or even meaningfull ones. Runes were always for an earlygame advantage while masteries on top with keystones should stay game relevant early, mid and late more or less. The only viabel lategame runes basicly would have been scaling cdr and hp. And for this runeshards come back, to give an earlygame you self can decide regardless what choices you pick for gameplaystyle. > You need to learn to read mate, I have said multiple times now, that while the current system being tied to trees has serious pain points, it makes far more sense to iron out those pain points and build on the current system instead of going back to a failed system with no variance that's going to require a massive rebalancing of runes to achieve and will continue to lower the skill floor of the game dumbing it down even further. It makes way more sense to implement a system such as picking stat shards based on what trees you chose such as taking Sorcery gives you access to AD/AP, Mana, or CDR and Resolve gives access to say Armour, MR, Health, or maybe even Tenacity. This would keep the best parts of both systems and prevent the stagnation that is inevitable with the Rune/Mastery/Stat Shard system. It may seem like a small difference but it's huge because it keeps a very important lever for balancing Runes in play and allows for far more variance than any system we've had yet. And i will not go on this case for the 100th time. I would not have it neeeded to go on it even once. As it is going to happen and riot and the majority of the players know the preseason changes to ruens are for the better case. No proplayer ever would say this new system lowers the skillfoor as no proplayer ever as in my other comment paid much attention to the ruenestyles int he first case. Most times the good stat boni where allready tied to the godo rune choices. SO you can talk as much you want, ahte as much you want, write as many articles in season 9 why this change made season 9 worse as season 8 as you want. Or even stop playing leauge. It will not change anything as riot allready overthought this a whole year while you kept stuck in the timeline of like preseason 8 with not reevaluating.
LOLOL Holy shit you're a little Troll, I don't believe you are actually this uninformed and illogical. I'm not providing the sources because I'm posting from my phone and I really don't feel like digging through a year's worth of posts on multiple sites just to show you something when you're obviously just trying to troll. Your blatantly trolling and are just going to ignore anything I post so why would I waste my very valuable time? I make 90 USD an hour if you want to pay my rate I'd be happy to look it up for you, but I'm not doing it for free when you've been nothing but a rude, lying little troll that can't accept being proven wrong. You obviously didn't read the posts or watch the videos in their entirety if you missed the issue regarding the switch to BE and the champ collection rate. They specifically stated that building out of the shards will get you champs faster but it's random, if you want a specific champ it takes a little longer due to the random shards having different values and the majority of them give very little BE. If you doubt it you can run the numbers yourself but you used to get IP every game (~100 for a loss depending on the game length and such) with more for wins (the most I've gotten without a boost was 700) and when you look at how little you get for each level up, (unless you crack 2 6300's or something which I've never seen, it's more often 450 champs that only make 90 BE) which takes multiple games it obviously doesn't match up, its just simple math you can do the next time you level and crack a box. Runes and Masteries were a joint system trying to say otherwise is asinine they specifically balanced the runes and masteries around each other and they were never even spoken of as being separate systems. "That is right. But runes were never implemented to give much choices or even meaningfull ones. Runes were always for an earlygame advantage while masteries on top with keystones should stay game relevant early, mid and late more or less. The only viabel lategame runes basicly would have been scaling cdr and hp." That's not true at all, the scaling AP and AD runes were more valuable than the flat just in terms of stats but they cost you early, and Riot confirmed multiple times in previous seasons that Runes were supposed to offer meaningful choices predominately for the early game, regardless of what you want to believe. "And for this runeshards come back, to give an earlygame you self can decide regardless what choices you pick for gameplaystyle." I'm not sure what you're trying to say as this sentence is gibberish but I think you're trying to claim yet again that the rune shards offers meaningful pregame choices which is totally illogical and you've yet to offer any kind of evidence that I'm wrong in that. In fact you've yet to offer any proof and what you say has no basis in logic or reality. "No proplayer ever would say this new system lowers the skillfoor as no proplayer ever as in my other comment paid much attention to the ruenestyles int he first case. Most times the good stat boni where allready tied to the godo rune choices." Yet again you talk out of your ass, there are several pro players and high ranked streamers who've bitched about the dumbing down of the game and the redirected focus on new players with changes from dynamic to stagnate like this one. That's also why so many veterans are leaving the game, Riot's admitted focus on making the game easier for new players to come in and be somewhat successful (AKA the **Skill Floor**) has hurt veterans and so they're leaving in droves. "Most times the good stat boni where allready tied to the godo rune choices." LOL then why are bitching?!?!? You're the one that seems to have forgotten the past kiddo, Riot is making a mistake in their typical fashion and it will turn out the same way it has previously, and it's quite clear so I really don't believe that you're not actually able to connect the dots. Trying to say I'm stuck in S-8 makes no sense whatsoever since I'm specifically asking them to move forward instead of trying to go back to S-7; they also didn't even begin working on this change until midseason so they haven't been thinking about it for a year as you claim, they only started work on it a few months ago and they're rushing to finish by preseason as usual. Again if you doubt me feel free to look it up, though I know you won't since you can't accept being wrong, Riot is quite clear as to which teams are working on what and when. If you have any proof or legitimate arguments to refute my comments please feel free to hit me up and let me know, but you've yet to offer a logical argument and your running in circles speaking gibberish, so unless you do develop a logical argument somehow please don't reply to this. I can only handle trolls and/or children incapable of recognizing when they wrong despite the evidence and common sense, so if you do feel like posting something without a real argument or proof again then just save your time for something more important to you, because I won't be wasting anymore time on you, you've already taken 5 minutes of my day to write this and still haven't made a legitimate argument in the slightest.
: D3 support main. Also Mastery 7 on Karma. I'm going to need you to take a shit ton of seats, my guy.
LMAO Your the one that needs to sit down man, you come onto a post pretty much specifically for Karma mains and don't even know she's a battlemage? Mastery and Rank mean nothing with regards to your knowledge of a particular champ as they can be achieved with raw mechanical skill alone, as you so eloquently prove with your previous comments.
Häxel (EUW)
: Honestly together with your previously comments your logic is so twisted i have to take your name basicly literaly. Also the comment above just asked about mana and manareg. In no way he specified a lane and in no way he also specified the early game so i hold it open, but ofcourse you assumed midlane earlygame (which by the way jsut got straight up buffed patch 8.10, early manabuff with mid-lategame mana nerf). > And it definitely doesn't open up more playstyles as it discourages trying more than one set of runes for a champ Again WTF. How does an open choice discourage trying multiple choices. Or how does a tied choice courage multiple choices? Easy example riot kinda even gave. Current Situation: I'm a Jax and i want Attackspeed. Well i could try Electrocute, Grasp, Aftershock or even Glacial but then i would not get Attackspeed. But i want Attackspeed so i never go these runes. Without Attackspeed i am super weak. And going just secondary precision gives me far, faaaaar less attackspeed as i want. Sure alacrity would be nice but the second slot on both slots is just so weak. It would be Triumph or Coup de Grace obviously but one of these alone is never worht the lack fo as i would have by jsut going precision secodnary and not primary. And i want as so i allways go Precision primary even if only Legend Alacrity, the Attackspeed and one of the keystoens interests me. New Situation: Well i am jax and i can get a good bunch of Attackspeed from the Runeshards. If i want more attackspeed i still could go Legend Alacrity even as like i said the second minor runes don't really interest me. BUT now i could go/try out phaserush Nimbuscloak gathering storm jax for lategame and not geting kited that much while NOT sacrificing a lot of attackspeed just cause i didn't take precision primary. I could even go secondary resolve with second wind vs the gp and STILL would have some attackspeed. OR i jsut go straight up full as conqueror as before. Now i ahv actual choices. Easy calculation: Now: No precision, no attackspeed. Precision secondary with dom/sorc: 5.5% as Legend Alacrity: 3-18%as based on Legend Stacks Resolve primary or secondary resolve/dom/sorc: 9%as Inspiration secondary: 18%as Inspiration primary: 20%as A standard as build or most as build: any keystone/lethal tempo, inspiration secondary, legend alacrity Preseason: rune and path choice far more free, you can get the 9%as shard, everytime if you like. Maybe riot even adds in the midrow another as rune. If you wanted to ahve at least 9%as, 12 runepath combos allready felt totaly off. If you wanted maybe legend bloodline or legend tenacity or you are not sure you can get all elgend stacks for alacrity, 2 additional choices were also not good. You literaly just had 6 runepathcombo choices for guaranteed 9%as. New system guarantees you that no matter which of the 20 runepath combos you go. Or which of the even more runes you go.
LOL your logic is FUBAR and you don't appear to be thinking things out. I mentioned it with regards to midlane and early game because; A. flat mana from Runes is specifically for the early game help with mana conservation, there'd be no reason to ask about mana from runes for the mid or late games as 100 mana or so means nothing after your first back, let alone in the late game, but is an extra spell or two early and can make a huge difference in lane. B. I know Cloakedbug plays carries. C. Mid is the most popular role in the game and has the hardest time with mana conservation. No other role besides support is gated so hard by mana and supports have mana regen which mids don't get. So talking about it in reference to mid laners in the early game was what mattered because that's who really wants early flat mana like that, it wouldn't make sense to talk about the other roles as they don't need it and its highly unlikely that he was asking for the sake of playing top lane tanks. It discourages variation because with stats tied to the Rune tree there is considerably more value in the player's versatility and ability to use multiple playstyles and builds in order to capitalize on the stats and the strengths of particular trees, matchups, allied or enemy rune/champ choices, etc., but the currently proposed stat shard system will eliminate the need to change up Runes because you can always have the stats you want, and that model favours stagnation because simply keeping them the same requires less cognition and opens you up to make less mistakes overall and so that will always be the tendency in a competitive game like League if it's favourable, that's just basic game design 101. There's also the fact that Keystones are going to get nerfed heavily to keep them from being retardedly OP now that their primary balancing method/lever is being removed and that will take a lot of their power and versatility as the weaker the keystones are the more hard set each champ becomes in terms of what they can or can't use viably. You currently get more AS taking Glacial Augment precision secondary on Jax than you do going Precision primary, so I'm not sure what you're arguing or why. Jax won't really change except that people will choke down to a single build for all matchups again because when the system allows for that it is generally the best option, so I'm really not sure what you're rambling on about with regards to him, no offense but your English is pretty rough to understand at a couple points (though still better than a lot of native speakers I know of. lol) and its a shortsighted and illogical set of arguments on top of that.
Häxel (EUW)
: Come on, give me that exaxt phrase of "old rune systgem failed". They most time said it overaged and like champions prior to the rework just wasn't up to their standard of current system. You just seem to quote riot and argue with them if it serves your point don't cha? > purchase runes was only a secondary benefit and one they weren't totally sold on at first due to how it would affect their pocket book which is why they then implemented the BE system that significantly slowed the rate at which you can gather champs with BE/IP to staunch the financial bleeding a bit so to speak. This is in so many levels wrong. If they really did not want to loose that money they would A: have the new system be again about purchasing runes and/or B: Not have even refunded like 30% of ip players used for old runes. Like that actualy hurt them a lot while they even gave a new system for free that no player basicly paid for directly (cosmtic and esport money, yes). But you talk about how riot told this and that but you didn't get the memo that B system even regenerates faster champions to get as the old ie system? There were plenty of talks from riot where they explained how you get evenf aster on champions as before and they even optomizd it far more when players failed to see this. > position select wasn't a thing until S-6 and so you got all the rune pages so you could have pages for each role since everyone was basically a fill main back then Yes postion select wasn't a thing. Doesn't change a fact that high elo you still could mostly trade to your main role. Also i didn't say you ahd 20 pages on one role. You had like 1-2 pages for off roles and the rest pages where for your current 3, 4 main champions or just champiosn you played and who needed special runepages. Like maybe you had a standard mage runepage for mid vs ad and ap, but then melee ap like fizz/diana/kassa/kata needed more defense vs range matchups, an ad assassin page, a jayce page, a corki page. Ofcourse adcs didn't have to bother much, maybe they had an extra jhin page with lethalaty/armorpen. > is no champ that cannot viably use multiple keystones from different trees its just how well you adjust to playing around the different stats and runes That is soooo far away from the reality. Some mages had just no good choice and taked old spellbook for the ult cd, not for swaping spells. Conqueror literaly got added far far later cause fighters msised fervor and press the attack was not really good and got also nerfed pretty fast. I allready gave you the Darius example. You self said now " nobody with two brain cells thinks 15-90 HP is worth taking", but in the end thats what Darius taked together with Grasp not cause it was the best, no it was the least shiitiest. That Health plus the heal and health you got from grasp was far better asgoing press the attack and getting a bunch of attackspeed and explode in every fight with no defense. Drawback nearly no dmg but better as just diing with theoretical dmg. Or Electrocute Darius for ad style? Same thing, you explode. Also many runes were just straight less good or diffrent in the past. Electrocute was until recently just an assassinrune with that long cd, so bad for poking mages or fighters with constant dmg. Like Olaf had to play fckn Comet. Do you think he liked it having nearly no constant dmg or tankyness and jsut poke? Until conqueror got added and the Predator Buff there was no Choice. Also we got to a point that every keystone got nerfed or will be nerfed one after another cause runestyle boni forced you on the strongest rune. Jungle best example, there for some period electrocute was jsut straight up the ebst, then out of the blue with the enrf everyone started to take Dark Harvest till that also got nerfed. It is so funny that i discus now in this direction as most times before i defended ruens reforged against people who believed the olf system just gave more varianve by simply having more choices. Now i discus again about variance but the absurdity simply increased with your idea stats tied to the paths that forces compromises, sometimes even really bad ones, is better for variance as just having the option to play the style or strategy you want without having stat disadvantages. It is like discussing with left and right wing extremists. Riot thinks after evaluating a whole year that the tied stats were a bad idea. Every player thinks that this was a bad idea. Like just give you scarras opinion here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeF7QGCt4HA At 21.45 after just reading the title he says he not even has to read that part as it is jsut to obvious.
"You just seem to quote riot and argue with them if it serves your point don't cha?" LOL What the motherfuck are you even talking about kid? You can look up the posts for yourself, I'm not going waste my time spoon-feeding you, but they put out several posts and videos covering the fact that changing runes and removing the need to buy them would cost them a decent amount of yearly income that they were generating by selling champs because the need to buy runes with IP forced a lot of working people like myself to pay RP for champs. They also covered that you'll get access to random champs faster with the new system but it takes ~1/4-1/3 more to get the BE for specific champs compared to the old system. You don't get to just say "no" to the fact that Riot said it bud, it's not my fault you don't read their posts and don't know what's going on or why. And yes, they did use the word "fail" when they said that their attempts to offer meaningful choices and variance in the pre-game failed and that they needed to re-evaluate the outdated system and come up with something new. They also said the same thing in several discussions I had on the forums with Rioters You need to read all of their posts instead of just pieces of a few if you're going to know what's going on kiddo. You need to learn to read mate, I have said multiple times now, that while the current system being tied to trees has serious pain points, it makes far more sense to iron out those pain points and build on the current system instead of going back to a failed system with no variance that's going to require a massive rebalancing of runes to achieve and will continue to lower the skill floor of the game dumbing it down even further. It makes way more sense to implement a system such as picking stat shards based on what trees you chose such as taking Sorcery gives you access to AD/AP, Mana, or CDR and Resolve gives access to say Armour, MR, Health, or maybe even Tenacity. This would keep the best parts of both systems and prevent the stagnation that is inevitable with the Rune/Mastery/Stat Shard system. It may seem like a small difference but it's huge because it keeps a very important lever for balancing Runes in play and allows for far more variance than any system we've had yet. LOL what? Darius has 4 viable runes right now and has for awhile, Olaf also has multiple, yes they were hurting before Conqueror, but that's why they added Conqueror. I'm not saying the current Runes are perfect, they're far from it, but they're much closer than the old system we abandoned a year ago, and I'm most certainly not suggesting that we don't need more Keystones or even lesser Runes in order to help add even more variance. I care predominately about the game's variance, and the proposed change lowers the variance overall and will be disruptive as fuck and quite difficult to tune properly, that much is obvious and I've yet to actually see an argument to the contrary; that hurts the game and I don't want to see that happen. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest because I don't even know who or what you're arguing with or about at this point, you're trying to put words in my mouth and argue with me, but you've yet to actually make a point on the real issues and just wound up trying to argue with me about things I didn't say and don't think like the whole second half of your post where you rant about Darius and Scarra arguing with things I'm not asserting. If you want to argue in circles about crap nobody's arguing then go for it, but I'm not going to be your partner for that.
Häxel (EUW)
: Yea, not like all the {{item:1004}} and {{item:1027}} items allready give a ton of mana/manareg plus Manaflowband, Presence of Mind, Biscuit Delivery and Kleptomancy (chance for mana potion) still existing. Like Presence of Mind is now a much more attractive choice as players no longer get forced to have more attackseed in exchange of ap or health just for going into precision with the as path style bonus. Just by splitting the path bonia way you have more playstyles and mana choices out of 3 diffrent rune paths. And maybe domination als changes up for things like that.
Except that all of the Precision and Resolve runes are balanced around taking your damage from the stat bonus to offset the fact that they have stronger runes than the other 3 trees. They have no choice but to nerf the shit out of those two trees in particular and its gonna be disruptive as fuck, and will result in the keystones only being good on specific champs and they'll wind up being forced into using that rune as well, just like in the previous attempt we made at this system. Midlaners don't use Faerie Charm by the way, only supports build out of it, and that still doesn't do any good for the early game like what this guy is looking for. And it definitely doesn't open up more playstyles as it discourages trying more than one set of runes for a champ. Also only one of those 4 runes grants early mana sustain or regen, the Biscuits; Presence of Mind and Mannaflow Band give mid/late game mana sustain, but they're useless in lane, and Kleptomancy is not at all reliable enough and is only really viable on specific Sheen champs since the nerfs to its drop rates.
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: Is that supposed 6 fixed AD really that detrimental in the beginning as AD Nidalee? The moment you buy your first item (or even scale from levels into bonus AD), the appropriate AD amount should be given to you from runes. The whole Doran's SHield start instead of Blade is just that - you're giving up some bonus AD and lifesteal from Doran's Blade for more HP, HP regen and some damage block. That is supposed to be the tradeoff with these 3 starting items. Allowing you to double dip (getting AD and getting a more rounded up stat start) would defeat the purpose of these item choices if you can simply pick the most stat efficient combination.
Leveling up would not activate the AD on an adaptive stat. Nid is set to AP so unless you have twice as much bonus AD as AP you'll get AP. You're also forgetting that it'd be 12 AD because it's 2 shards of adaptive damage, and that is quite significant for AD Nid's early game, as well as any ADC's. This sucks for some Hybrid champs and weird builds, it's understandable when talking about the Runes, but there's no reason to continue that with the stat shards.
: Turret plating to gate the time at which laning phase ends honestly seems like a pretty heavy-handed mistake to me... I don't feel like teams or individual players should be forced to stick in their lane, because the game forces them to be there. Part of the strategy of the game is making macro plays and working with your teammates to create advantages around the map. Being able to take an early turret and rotate to another lane to try and force an advantage there is a core method of gaining an advantage in the early game, and this would completely eliminate that as a possibility. Idk. I'm excited for stats from runes, I can tell you that much, but I don't like this turret plating at first glance.
They've been steadily working on lowering the level of cognition required for League for awhile now to make it more welcoming to younger teens and new players. That's what most of these changes are about, especially the idiotic shards, they're making it so there's less need to adjust or change runes and the laning phases, number of players in each lane, etc. are going to be forced even more. I really don't like it, and have been hoping they'd change directions but they appear to still be interested in dumbing the game down which is a shame. This isn't just my two cents either there are multiple posts from Rioters out there talking about their desire to lighten the cognitive load and lower the skill floor even more, which is great for newbs but it's a big reason why veterans are leaving in larger numbers than normal lately.
: Would it be a idea to make the cdr rune 1-10% from levels 1-10 instead of levels 1-18. I feel like this would be a really nice one on supports but it just feels kinda bad on sups. On sups you hit level 18 so late that you are stuck with a incomplete amount of cdr or you still have to over cap it and take transcendence with it.
Agreed, supports very rarely reach 18; the average non-Zilean support ends game at lvl 13, and you'll typically already have 40% from items and transcendence by then, so while this should be appealing to supports it just feels like it's only for specific carry champs like Susan. The whole Stat shard thing seems really poorly thought out to me, and is just a sorta revert back to runes and masteries which we've already tried and it didn't work.
Guinsou (EUNE)
: The shards are not an addition, they are a replacement of the current bonuses you get by combining Rune trees. This in fact brings runes reforged closer to the old system but without it being as much about stats - which was the case both in runes **and masteries** - and more about active effects or at least more meaningfull stats under certain circumstances. Imo the new system allows for more fun builds without being primarily about items. Compare something like Predator to any aggressive keystone mastery from the old system. It's much more interacting and on the few champs it goes on, it really feels like a core part of their kit. Something that you **build around**. I'm not trying to tell you "YOU ARE WRONG" and i really want to ask what makes you see the current runes the way you do. If you can open my eyes about something I don't see, please go ahead. With something more than "We don't need this stupid fucking crap". {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
I like the current Runes system I just don't want to go back to the old failed runes and mastery system like they're proposing. The runes are significant now, but they were only able to do that because they balanced the trees around the stats which is why you can't even splash Resolve without giving up damage right now, but once this goes through they'll have no choice but to nerf the Runes into the ground so we're back to being forced into particular Runes with static stats that basically never change, it takes the creativity out of the game and that blows. This is clearly a step backwards for the game, not forwards, no matter how you look at it.
: Got any estimation of when the botlane rework will be ready? After it was backtracked all we're left with now is the same mandatory class botlane every game, with the added pain of a mandatory early game burst item
They already did and people freaked the fuck out.
Kadajkox (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=NPBRPjqf,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2018-10-23T18:03:10.621+0000) > > Unfortunately not. We're giving out far less stats in this system than in the one before, and we want to ensure that the stats we do provide have the largest audience possible. Totally feel you on there being a void however, but we won't be solving it this way. Sorry fam :( Why are the stats still adaptive? It's such an uncomfortable system, can you please make it so that we can choose AD or AP permanently. regardless of what we build? It shouldn't be hard at all to do.
I agree the adaptive thing makes sense for the Masteries, but the runes (stat shards) should be customizable at this point since we can tailor the stats to the champ we're playing. It would make a HUGE difference especially for hybrid carries. Though better yet they should improve the current system instead of going right back to the failed runes and masteries system we left a year ago.
Häxel (EUW)
: "because all this does is make it so that runes and masteries will never change from game to game." "We have tried this system before for years and it failed" Marking the 2 points you are wrong. First of, armor/mr or even hp is a choice you can optimize every game. People also did this in the past. Even if you mained just one role or champion people actualy got 20 runepages, 2-4 pages on evena single champion for diffrent playstyles and matchups (with adc beeing the exception, there was one page mostly enough). In fact that you believe people actualy had to think if they want aftershock or ap - like what champion would that be? Lissandra? There is still the very important keystonerune, if anything it just gives more varity. Aftershock, Electrocute, any inspiration or sorcery keystone. You still can only pick 2 runepaths but for exampel going Presence of Mind is now far easier without that attackspeed that literaly was just important for Adcs and Junglers. In no way does Darius like as, he wants raw ad and resistances. But also no keystone beside Conqueror or maybe Press the Attack is good for him. You could jsut not simply go sorcery or domination for ad, that was literaly troll and would it still be. The exact opposite, Tankjunglers like Sejuani are no longer forced to go fleet footwork, a keystone they not really want just to get attackspeed. And no, taking aftershock or a super weak keystone for more as is not a good design with choices. It just forces champions as top tier whog et the least punished by such trademarks. Second, whoever said the system before failed? Who says leauge does not progress and we just walk in circles? Isn't it allways the case players look back at previous glories times and wish season 2/3 back for exampel? Is it walking in circles if you see that not every idea pays off (5.0 attackspeed kog'maw, q waveclear rengar/leblanc, inhib/nexus tower lasers and now that system that conected stats to rune paths). Again, who says the previous system failed? What the rework was for is to give every player the same chance and to remove that basicly paytowin tax on runes and runepages. Aswell as giving the possibility to adjust EVERYTHING for EVERY SINGLE LEAUGE PLAYER in the game lobby. Not having the advantage fo 20 runepages vs 2 runepages for exampel. Also the stat boni seem like a good choice. What riot actualy did with the previous runes is that they made some runes quite powerfull and the most effective int he game like the armor and ap quints while the rest of 80% of the runes remained useless. Goldregen, spellthief, healthreg on glyphs, all that was just bad and quite a noob/low elo trap. Rune Reforged gives every palyer the same choices and with the planed changes it would give every champion also the same choices, not like how you have now to be lucky if the runes you want also are in the paths with the path style stats you want.
Riot said it failed last year during pre-season and so did the tens of millions of players who were polled, so yes in this case it is walking in circles to make a change and then at the first opportunity to make serious adjustments just as players are beginning to branch out and try new things you turn around and completely change directions and priorities back to the system that already failed instead of building on the pain points to create a better and more dynamic system. Runes reforged was specifically implemented to give players more variety and impactful pregame decisions to play around, you can go back and look it up but they specifically stated that removing the need to purchase runes was only a secondary benefit and one they weren't totally sold on at first due to how it would affect their pocket book which is why they then implemented the BE system that significantly slowed the rate at which you can gather champs with BE/IP to staunch the financial bleeding a bit so to speak. Your right that most people used the budget setup with damage or resistance quints the most...until they got the other runes and then things like MS and Gp5, HP regen, and even flat HP were prevalent but they were costly and generally more focused on specific champs or situations, so narrowing the choices as they've done is plain idiocy and is going back in the direction they came from without fixing the problems they intended. You're also incorrect in your statement that people still got 20 rune pages so they could optimize each game even if they mained a role; position select wasn't a thing until S-6 and so you got all the rune pages so you could have pages for each role since everyone was basically a fill main back then. Once position select came into being the need for more Rune pages dropped off drastically. It's not luck that you get the right stats in the current system, its a matter of strategy and intelligence, there is no champ that cannot viably use multiple keystones from different trees its just how well you adjust to playing around the different stats and runes. The runes are balanced around the stats being tied by tree, Resolve has the strongest runes so they made sure you couldn't combine them with damage, now that's out the window and champs like Liss and Fiddle among others can build aftershock at no cost to their damage, and if you think that's not big then you just aren't thinking, Liss and Fidd with Aftershock are dominating and as a result they will have no choice but to nerf the whole Resolve tree, specifically Aftershock and Bone Plating, into the dirt. Each of the trees was supposed to have a different level of value to their runes which is why the Utility tree gives more stats and Domination gave less until recently, and Precision and Resolve take other stats from you for a reason, and that will have to be accounted for by nerfing everything into the ground; again if you doubt that prediction simply look back at Riot's history and you'll see that's exactly what's going to happen. I'm going to assume that your comment about the pissant resistances being picked per game was a joke, because nobody with two brain cells thinks 15-90 HP is worth taking even the Rioters who designed it have acknowledged that, you will almost always take the MR because it has the higher value and use, Jungle and Top are the only ones that might consider the 5 armour over 6 MR but Mid, Support, and ADC will all want the 6 MR early because its more useful for those roles and more valuable to boot. Bottom line, this change will only serve to lower the level of choice, lower the skill floor of the game yet again, and force Rito to nerf the runes until they just blow and matter even less, I have not seen a single good reason to go with the new system and as of yet nobody even the Rioters have been able to point out how I would be wrong, or how this would be different from the failed system we left a year ago.
: > The reason is because the defensive options are hot garbage Bold statement when the provided numbers are subject to iteration, plus one of the three rows is dedicated to defensive options so it can't be overshadowed by offensive choices (same goes for row 1 being offensive in nature). > That works in theory except that we've tried this before for years with even more options and it didn't work and thus Runes Reforged was born. Your argument is based on the old Rune/Mastery system, which doesn't really apply here. These stats were already being provided by Runes Reforged; they were just locked into certain trees. The old Runes system had static pages that could not be changed. This is why people optimized into the "best" general pages -- it'd cost you a lot of money to invest in situational rune pages, plus you were limited in how many pages you could own. In the same way, having these stats locked into particular rune trees meant that players who might have wanted to invest into a different play style were disenfranchised, lest they lose out on the base stats. A really good example of this was the top lane bruiser issue earlier in the season. Grasp wasn't a terrible keystone to take, but it meant that bruisers were investing into health instead of AD. That was a big problem and is why they introduced the "split stats", alongside adding Conqueror to the Precision tree. I've had plenty of games where I've invested in Domination or Sorcery as a secondary tree (ADC main) when I otherwise might have liked to take Resolve into a hard match-up, simply because I would have lost the adaptive bonuses otherwise. It's also important to note that because these stats are adjustable in the lobby, we don't need to generalize our stat choices like the old Runes system forced us to. I'm sure plenty of people will just dump into maximizing damage, but that isn't a requirement anymore. You can assess the team compositions and make judgement calls based on play style.
They've specifically stated several times already in the comments that the defensive numbers are the most closely tuned to how they'll release because they're worried about the power of early defensive stats. You're argument that this system isn't the same because the stat power was locked into runes and now it's not makes no sense because by that same logic it was unlocked before this season and then they locked it into Runes and now they're unlocking it again, so exactly what I've already said. You could buy pages for IP, it cost as much as a newer champ 6300, and even with that system I didn't know anyone who had less than 5 pages or spent money on them. There were a set number of builds that were actually used and it was generally pretty much set by lane or occasionally champ, you can look it up on stat sites that deal in Riot's API data if you want. The reason you chose the stats had nothing to do with the number of pages you had or the fact that you couldn't change them, especially after role select was added, before that then yeah the rune pages where obviously more important but after that point it was too easy to have enough pages for every situation available to your roster of playable champs. The stats being locked by tree is not perfect as I stated, but I think we should improve the pain points and build on this system as we've only had it for a year instead of running to an inferior form of the older system we ditched for this one at the first available opportunity. That said the stats being locked by tree has been incredibly important for balance, they're going to have to seriously nerf the Resolve tree because it was specifically balanced around picking it at all taking your offensive stats, which may have made some players feel disenfranchised at first but it was necessary and as we've seen lately it really doesn't restrict people from taking those defensive options anyways it just took all season for players to actually step out of their shells and try it, and yeah it needs some more fine tuning but that's what I'm suggesting, this is just a very clear step back instead of a step forward. There is no reason to take anything besides double damage and one defensive on any champ in any role with this proposed system, and while no the numbers aren't set in stone, they are very close to the final numbers that will be chosen because they've specifically stated that they have to limit the power of those defensive stats according to MapleNectar in multiple comments on this post, and they can't disrupt early AP because of the state of mid-lane.
: That number is likely close to final tuning, and some of the reasoning is that tanks benefit the most out of having an enforced defensive option. Armor/MR increases their EHP more so than other champs as they build more hp items throughout the game. That being said, we're going to discuss whether we should do a small pass on tank items and bump up their stats a wee bit, nothing for sure though
What about how this change is going to affect the power of the Resolve tree? It's currently balanced around the fact that you can't take Aftershock or even bone plating without losing damage and the new system will allow champs like Lissandra to go Aftershock at no cost to her stats, similarly this will raise the early damage on tanks since they'll likely be rocking the adaptive damage option as well over the defensive options that honestly aren't worth taking because you had to understandably nerf them so much because of the raw power in early defensive stats.
: That number is likely close to final tuning, and some of the reasoning is that tanks benefit the most out of having an enforced defensive option. Armor/MR increases their EHP more so than other champs as they build more hp items throughout the game. That being said, we're going to discuss whether we should do a small pass on tank items and bump up their stats a bit, nothing for sure though
Hey Maple, Last year you released Runes Reforged under the idea that Runes should be more dynamic and should be more significant for players to choose and play around from game to game and though a lot of players are only just now realizing this it has definitely been achieved, although not perfectly. This system doesn't build on that success and will take us right back to the old failed masteries and runes just with less actual choice than both the current and the old system. What's changed in the game to cause the change in priority? It feels like we're going in circles and frankly I really don't like it, I love when you guys make changes that progress the game but this change in particular seems to be a big step backwards for the game as we've already tried that with more options and it was super linear and we left it behind for a reason. Thanks a lot for the update by the way Brochise, it is much appreciated.
: How does it reduce that? If anything, decoupling your stats and your rune choices opens up more avenues, while curbing excessive early offense and excessive early defense.
Because all this does is make it so that runes and masteries will never change from game to game. The current system flawed as it is forces you to make choices of value between runes and stats while the proposed system removes choice as there is an obvious "right choice" for each role and now it won't have to change at all dependent on Runes; so for example AP champs no longer have to give up AP for Aftershock or to splash Resolve, which will quite obviously create problems, and once a "best route" is determined it won't need to change anymore. This doesn't curb offense at all because the offensive stats remain the same while the defensive choices are totally and significantly reduced making getting the double AD or AP even more important because 5 Armour, 6 MR, or 15-90 HP is crap and nobody is going to prioritize any of those over the option of 10 AP or 6 AD or even the scaling CDR. We have tried this system before _for years_ and it failed with way more choices than this offers, so if you doubt what I'm saying or predicting you can easily look at the evidence from past seasons when we used the same system but with more stat options.
: Unfortunately not. We're giving out far less stats in this system than in the one before, and we want to ensure that the stats we do provide have the largest audience possible. Totally feel you on there being a void however, but we won't be solving it this way. Sorry fam :(
Hey Maple, Last year you released Runes Reforged under the idea that Runes should be more dynamic and should be more significant for players to choose and play around from game to game and though a lot of players are only just now realizing this it has definitely been achieved, although not perfectly. This system doesn't build on that success and will take us right back to the old failed masteries and runes just with less actual choice than both the current and the old system. What's changed in the game to cause the change in priority? It feels like we're going in circles and frankly I really don't like it, I like when you guys make changes that progress the game but this change in particular seems to be a big step backwards for the game as we've already tried that with more options and it was super linear and blew a fat one. Thanks a lot for the update by the way Brochise, it is much appreciated.
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Hungry Cancer

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