: You know what would allow junglers their 200+ EXP camps and megacarry champion pool?
Bot lane is the best example? Which ever top has tribush is fucked all game. At least bot has 2 people. Tribush top is literally bot vision cut in half. That's a huge reason why people feel like JG wins top. You can't even keep 100% uptime on ONE of the gank paths in top let alone all 3 of them. Combined with the fact that most top laners have little to no mobility. Your basically dead past river if you can't 1v2. The amount of times I'm like "Welp, I have 120 to next ward, they destroyed my pink so gg" is insane. You should not be allowed to be forced to play blind top. /rant
: No people who feed and int ruin the game because they play like shit never get punished and hold surrender votes hostage basically forcing people to go afk rage quiters are such rare an minor issue LMFAO
> [{quoted}](name=Grouchy Poro,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEZzh94h,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-11T17:11:07.791+0000) > > No people who feed and int ruin the game because they play like shit never get punished and hold surrender votes hostage basically forcing people to go afk rage quiters are such rare an minor issue LMFAO How dare you post the truth! No real shit though, it's wild how people complain over the 0/2 afk that happens once every hundred games but billy joe Iron bob going 0-11 holding the game hostage while tunneling death after death is ok.
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
My issue with tanks is riot has proven they can't balance buffing them. When tanks get buffed they either turn into raid bosses that need 4 players to kill them or they just completely overpower offensive champions. I'm sure we remember the start of this season before conqueror when tanks like maokai were deadass just out laning even champions like renekton.... riot can't balance tanks. They either buff their power and they outlane everything or they buff their defense and they become raid bosses.
: So I agree with the Aatrox nerf
I fucking can't stand pro play. I love how top lane has been desecrated for 3 seasons in a row because of pro play. Almost every top lane balance issue or a kit being ripped apart in the past 3 years can be summed up to "because proplay". Fucking disgusting.
: Rewards For Doing Badly > Rewards For Doing Well
Almost every time I lose is to someone who lost early on purpose to get an OP item/champ stack in all the circles and made a comp that can't lose. The "Youll have lower hp" argument is so irrelevant. These players intentionally drop to like 12 by the end of the game then no one will land a single shot on them after that because their team is just god tier. Being low HP literally doesn't matter if no one can hurt you. I RARELY see the person winning early game win the entire game. They always end up item fucked.
Ratpie (NA)
: I think it is just part of the natural RNG of this game. There are probably different priorities that could be set that might make it better. Maybe always shoot skill shots towards the highest density, but then there is still the possibility that that average position line misses everything. I think the only skill shots that could be corrected better, would be the occasional one where someone is behind a champ and they turn around and shoot it at one person instead of at the whole team. But then if it didn't shoot behind and take out that one, you might have people complain that it should take out the most pressing threat because then it would continue to fight and maybe do more? So should a unit target the immediate threat with a skill shot or the most damage overall? If it was vs a yordle team, I would want that dragon to blast their whole team, but if it was an SOS Pyke behind I'd rather it blast the solo target LOL. Also if there were different priorities for targets, than that just might open up other ways of gaming the skill shots. I do that when I vs a blitz. I put one tank like a Garen on the far side of the map from blitz and he pulls it right in instead of pulling my ADC. I guess that it is possible to maybe tighten up the AI, but I think you will always have the possibility of just really off shots, but they aren't usually that bad. The only ones I get annoyed at is when someone burns their skill on a unit that is already in the process of dying while their Draven is pounding on you.
I honestly just want a skill shot to HIT 100% of the time. Who exactly it hits can be up to the bot. Ones I see completely whiff often are zed shuriken and ahri Q.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIEtoFYI,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-07-05T20:28:37.001+0000) > > I hate the "bad late game so early = op" argument especially in a game state right now where the average game isn't even making it to late game... even in the lowest elos of the game is it BARELY progressing to late game. Shutting out your opponent 40+cs and using that gold and xp lead to tower dive them out of lane is worth more than falling off late game ever will be. Then you have the one issue where the most played tops right now are usually early / mid game champions so they won't even benefit from tahm falling off late. You underestimate just how hard Kench falls off if you think a 40 cs lead is enough to cushion it.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIEtoFYI,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-07-05T21:31:18.312+0000) > > You underestimate just how hard Kench falls off if you think a 40 cs lead is enough to cushion it. He statistically falls off about as hard as any other early game top pick looking at lolalytics, leagueofgraphs and champion.gg. Again it doesn't change the point that most games are decided by the time he falls off well. His graphs are putting his hard fall off where he becomes below average at 25m. Yay! He fell off but we only have 5 minutes left in the game and I have 2k+ gold disadvantage... guess I hope I get this penta. Oh and if you played a early game or mid game top it doesn't matter anyway because your ALSO falling off.
Rioter Comments
: Yeah, I don't agree with this post. 1) TK is supposed to have advantage early since his late game is **absolute ass.** This is why pros still play him support and not top, since he's useless after a point if he's played as a solo laner. It's very likely he just fucked up early and won later in the game. 2) TK could have been a smurf. If he's beating TF Blade, he *probably* is.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIEtoFYI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-05T18:43:17.442+0000) > > Yeah, I don't agree with this post. > > 1) TK is supposed to have advantage early since his late game is **absolute ass.** I hate the "bad late game so early = op" argument especially in a game state right now where the average game isn't even making it to late game... even in the lowest elos of the game is it BARELY progressing to late game. Shutting out your opponent 40+cs and using that gold and xp lead to tower dive them out of lane is worth more than falling off late game ever will be. Then you have the one issue where the most played tops right now are usually early / mid game champions so they won't even benefit from tahm falling off late.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2019-07-04T02:37:42.304+0000) > > Because then you can't play shields mid, jg or supports. You can't just blanket nerf shields when shields in other roles aren't strong. > > P.S. why are people complaining about renekton when he isn't even like statistically the best right now? Many champions on many different metrics are pound for pound outperforming him. Except that's virtually most of the supports being played right now, and the problem is clearly support shields on ADC. Obviously nobody is going to nerf Viktor's shields or junglers, but they sure as hell can nerf support items, shields and healing, and nerf ADC lifesteal stats from their items by placing a split in damage between ranged and melee champions that reduces ADC healing substantially. ADC's are meant to be fragile at all states of the game, not just early. They're really not right now thanks to current shields and lifedrain once they build PD/bloodthirster and GA alongside support heals/shielding.
> [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2019-07-04T02:51:52.047+0000) > > Except that's virtually most of the supports being played right now, and the problem is clearly support shields on ADC. > > Obviously nobody is going to nerf Viktor's shields or junglers, but they sure as hell can nerf support items, shields and healing, and nerf ADC lifesteal stats from their items by placing a split in damage between ranged and melee champions that reduces ADC healing substantially. > > ADC's are meant to be fragile at all states of the game, not just early. They're really not right now thanks to current shields and lifedrain once they build PD/bloodthirster and GA alongside support heals/shielding. Except your not punishing ADCs with this, your nerfing the entire team. If the support was ONLY able to shield an ADC your idea works but since they are able to shield all 5 players including themselves, a blanket nerf to their shields hurts everyone simultaneously. If you want to nerf ADCs why not just nerf ADCs lol. PD should have never been a ranged steraks. Do we not remember that they specifically removed steraks from ranged champs because of how broke it was? With the support revamp and generally increased sustain via them in the game PDs power is able to be tuned down.
: How about we nerf shields instead of buffing already oppressive top laners like Renekton and Kled. Lifesteal and shields are busted with the adc+supp combos currently, forcing assassins to have 1-2 shot levels of damage since they die to 3 ADC autos if they don't kill the ADC before the supp shields them or CC's the assassin. But that doesn't mean you gotta give a few bruisers like renekton and kled champion specific tools to deal with these. Just nerf the damn shields and lifesteal. Remove AD from GA. That's really what breaks ADC, the fact they can get a damage item that also gives them armor and a resurrection after all the effort is invested getting through a frontline, myriad CC and support shields and heals just to kill a single ADC that didn't actually die.
> [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-07-04T00:39:06.734+0000) > > How about we nerf shields instead of buffing already oppressive top laners like Renekton and Kled. > Because then you can't play shields mid, jg or supports. You can't just blanket nerf shields when shields in other roles aren't strong. P.S. why are people complaining about renekton when he isn't even like statistically the best right now? Many champions on many different metrics are pound for pound outperforming him.
: You've been useless
I don't see most people flame at 0-4-0 unless you start first. I see most people flame at 0-7+-0 which yea, you actually have to try to get a score like that or given up on the game. Like going thru my history the only time I had scores close to 0-7 were are games that were over and we essentially had half the team or more yoloing until we could get an ff. So to restate, in my experience you literally have to give up to have scores like that. The problem with the "just a bad game" or "unlucky" attitude is those players never actually stop dying because its "just a bad game". Instead of looking at the game and figuring out what mistake is being made they have already mentally (whether they admit it or not) given up on their own performance and will continue to make the same mistake until their lane is so fed the game is instantly over.
Dat Kat (EUW)
: My position in login queue is 20k?
I have a quick question. So if this is the NA boards and your posting a **ONLY** EUW issue with all EUW responses, why is this not on the EUW boards?
: lol yeah and the dozens of other people spamming tft complaints posts everyday
> [{quoted}](name=rito are scambgs,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Awyb2cpV,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-30T19:57:31.135+0000) > > lol yeah and the dozens of other people spamming tft complaints posts everyday You realize how bad that logic is right? DOZENS of people out of a game with MILLIONS of people are complaining? Seems like a pretty good margin to me. That's like 0.000000..1%. Not to mention the forums of any game are going to be majority negative due to the greater pressure to voice your complaints than go out of your way to praise.
: How do you guys feel about CC chain in this game?
Like someone else mentioned, until they rework champions that literally rely and are specifically balanced on you CC locking them or they instantly win the team fight then I guess I can live with chain cc. Idk which is more annoying, not being able to move or being in graveyard because you couldn't make your opponent unable to move.
Sillae (NA)
: Players: We want Nexus Blitz to be a Permanent Mode!
Most arcade modes in popular games rotate. Just for a couple examples you can see this in OW, WoW, LoL and CoD. The reason has already been explained by all of those developers but to recap, arcade modes are gimmicks. While some players can spend hundreds of hours on their, their data shows that the vast majority of players will binge an arcade mode until the gimmick wears off to reveal a pretty meh game mode then they will quit it forever and go back to the main game modes leaving the arcade mode dead with those minority of players who can play it for their main mode not enough to sustain the queue. Rotating arcade modes not only prevents most players from reaching their personal limit to where the gimmick wears off, it also generates hype in-between releases therefore increases the time it takes for people to get to their limit.
: Since we're copying stuff from dota still...
Every sinlge MOBA since the birth of the genre is just copying each other. boo hoo.
: My Experiences Traveling Through Gold/Silver (Smurf)
From my experience Gold is nothing more than who ever get's caught less wins tbh. So many players make the most random decisions 24/7. Oh, team's pushing mid and calling for a siege? Guess I'll invade their gromp and die to their jg and their top who was rotating mid to defend.... then the entire team has to back off, give up obj priority and reset... Like forget toxicity and feeding, getting caught throws more games than I have ever seen in gold. It's ESPECIALLY bad with ADCs in gold. The amount of times I have seen an ADC split push solo with no vision clear into enemy territory then yell an assassin is OP because they got popped is actually insane. Like No, rengar isn't broken, your decision to splitbush until you were directly under rengar's red buff solo was OP. /rant But really though, you can legit solo win games by just picking an ass-save champion that makes up for the fact that 90% of your team's deaths will be from getting caught.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=m9KKE0Gz,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-06-21T14:01:38.312+0000) > > That's really the JG's job. It's nice to get a free kill because a laner roamed but in general if you know the enemy JG can kill you 1v1 in the early game it's your job to place the proper defensive wards and have the farm path knowledge to track the JG to make sure you and him are not on the same side of the map and if you are you are positioned to escape. That's what I do when I play evelynn who commonly get's invaded pre-6 because of how scared of people are of her scaling after invis. > > It's the same thing when laners get ganked while JG is directly nearby. It would **nice** if the JG counter-ganked but at the end of the day it's my job not to end up in the situation where I need another teammate to bail me out. Ya sometimes. Sometimes the enemy laners help, and your laner doesnt respond at all. Sure you run and give up the camp, and avoid feeding. But now youre behind on farm. The game is so circumstantial, you cant say its always junglers fault. Its a team game ffs.
I mean I can and I will. If I'm playing a weaker early game jungle and do not properly track the enemy jg knowing I cannot contest him that is my fault. Simple really.
Saezio (EUNE)
: What I get from this reply is : "I think my opinion should matter more than better player's opinions because there are more bad players around than good ones" And I just happen to have a different opinion. As soon as jungle becomes somewhat impactful(why is impactful not a word lol) for top tier play it's gutted and carries can't be picked above diamond 4 in the jungle unless you are a smurf, and completely unpickable past D1.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=m9KKE0Gz,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-21T14:56:59.091+0000) > > What I get from this reply is : "I think my opinion should matter more than better player's opinions because there are more bad players around than good ones" You say that as if there are 56% "bad" players and 44% "good" players. No there are over 99% of players that are not impacted. Aka 99% of you aren't facing the problems you claim to be from the 0.01%. Kinda like all the BS you linked above as how laners fuck over jungle when in reality no.... almost none of that which you posted will be true for the vast vast vast majority of players but you present it as if it were. Intentionally misleading argument. You didn't say "for the top tier players, here is how laners mess them up". No.... you say "this is how laners mess JUNGLERS up", implying all junglers at all levels. > > As soon as jungle becomes somewhat impactful(why is impactful not a word lol) for top tier play it's gutted and carries can't be picked above diamond 4 in the jungle unless you are a smurf, and completely unpickable past D1. This just isnt true. Sort by tier, win rate, or pick rate and either metric you pick at least 50% of the top 10 junglers will be carries. Try it out: https://u.gg/lol/tier-list/?role=jungle&rank=master Again, don't eat what these players are telling you. Look up the statistics for yourself and make your own decisions. If you want to cross-reference, heres another data set: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/jungle/master
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=m9KKE0Gz,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-20T14:13:28.691+0000) > > Part of the issue is that jungle has arguably the most noticeable impact when one is better than the other. If I am losing top lane, 9/10 no one is going to notice until ~25m+ due to the nature of the island up here and the usual late game power of the champions that reside there. When a jungle is losing you constantly afraid to leave to tower, you are always out of wards trying to track them, spending constant gold on control wards, unable to take lane priority fearing ganks, usually at dragon disadvantages, unable to call for rift herald, etc. > > I think the other issue is alot of times junglers do things that fuck over laners and never compensate. the most Common examples are: > > * Trying to push tower but instead freezing wave on their side. > * Seeing a low hp laner recalling and dying trying to turret dive. > * Absorbing half an xp bar worth of minions afk in a nearby bush only to walk away. > * Dying in ganks and then pretending that lane doesn't exist > > These things among others fuck over lanes in ways that no other role in the game can do reliably. Especially in low elo the first 3 bullet points happen almost every single game. Doing the first three bullets you can single handedly put a laner down over a kill in gold and xp when they have done nothing wrong. Also, no one in lowelo notices and helps when youre being invaded, so often times you will fall behind simply dueto an uncoordinated, unaware team. And then they think oh our jg is the worse one, when really its the laners that are doing nothing to help when they couldve actually set the enemy jg behind by responding to pings and watching the minimap.
> [{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=m9KKE0Gz,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-06-20T21:30:40.859+0000) > > Also, no one in lowelo notices and helps when youre being invaded, so often times you will fall behind simply dueto an uncoordinated, unaware team. And then they think oh our jg is the worse one, when really its the laners that are doing nothing to help when they couldve actually set the enemy jg behind by responding to pings and watching the minimap. That's really the JG's job. It's nice to get a free kill because a laner roamed but in general if you know the enemy JG can kill you 1v1 in the early game it's your job to place the proper defensive wards and have the farm path knowledge to track the JG to make sure you and him are not on the same side of the map and if you are you are positioned to escape. That's what I do when I play evelynn who commonly get's invaded pre-6 because of how scared of people are of her scaling after invis. It's the same thing when laners get ganked while JG is directly nearby. It would **nice** if the JG counter-ganked but at the end of the day it's my job not to end up in the situation where I need another teammate to bail me out.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Nice ad-hominem there. Keep it up ;) Listen to any challenger/master jungler and what they have to say about jungler's impact.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=m9KKE0Gz,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T20:03:44.845+0000) > > Nice ad-hominem there. Keep it up ;) > > Listen to any challenger/master jungler and what they have to say about jungler's impact. I mean I could tell from your post you werent speaking from practical experience and just regurgitating stream talk so I checked and was right. Good thing the top 0.01% of players has no impact on how the game plays from the 99%. Jungle doesn't work how any of what you listed outside of D1+.
Saezio (EUNE)
: You do know laners fuck over junglers way more right? If a lane is losing, the jungler can't farm like half his shit safely, and on top of that he can't gank that lane cause it's very high risk low reward play. If a lane is not warding again you lose so much shit. If your mid doesn't have pressure, you are basically a non-factor unless you kill enemy mid, which is hella risky cause if you get countered it's gg. You can't do dragon or Rift alone unless you just killed like 3 people. And you simply forget about scuttles if the enemy lane is ahead and not stupid. Try playing jungle and you will see. If you got losing lanes, you just lost game. You need either mid or bot to be winning to even play your role. (unless it's like silver-gold where you just pick graves/kinder/lee/etc and solocarry)
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=m9KKE0Gz,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-06-20T18:01:39.367+0000) > > Try playing jungle and you will see. If you got losing lanes, you just lost game. I would spend the time to argue all of those just really blatantly false and/or misleading claims but this above quote is coming from an aram account that hasn't seen ranked JG since season 7. I cant be asked.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NEjQ87ex,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T14:29:26.417+0000) > > This is the key thing you guys don't understand. ROLE LOCATION. I gurantee you 100% if you queue top and go inting sion mid you will be banned. If you go inting sion bot, you will get banned. The only roles that have specific locations are Top, Jungle, Middle, and Bot. Support has no designation in the name at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NEjQ87ex,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T14:32:59.218+0000) > > The only roles that have specific locations are Top, Jungle, Middle, and Bot. Support has no designation in the name at all. Terrible argument. What are they going to call it? Bot 2? It shows the location of the role on the map when you load in the game. That is your role's location. Your trying to use semantics to undermine something that is known and understood by all players. Stop.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NEjQ87ex,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-06-19T12:05:02.267+0000) > > Riot themselves have earlier stated that if you really want to do something that really breaks the mold that will significantly impact your teammates gameplay then you need to talk with them about it first, otherwise its just you going " im doing this, suck it up n00bs LEL" Even if mid or top agreed to have Teemo their lanes bot will still play 1v2 and the team will report you if you lose. You think Nightblue3 wasn't going to whine to the Rioter about the Teemo if the mid Irelia was ambivalent about it? Get real. Besides, neither proxy Singed nor Inting Sion needed consent from the team to start feeding the enemy as a "strategy."
> [{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NEjQ87ex,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T14:18:49.523+0000) > > Even if mid or top agreed to have Teemo their lanes bot will still play 1v2 and the team will report you if you lose. You think Nightblue3 wasn't going to whine to the Rioter about the Teemo if the mid Irelia was ambivalent about it? Get real. Besides, neither proxy Singed nor Inting Sion needed consent from the team to start feeding the enemy as a "strategy." This is the key thing you guys don't understand. ROLE LOCATION. I gurantee you 100% if you queue top and go inting sion mid you will be banned. If you go inting sion bot, you will get banned.
: Its like proxy singed stuff , people dont want change . And Riot is like : you need to explain the strat to your teammates because if they report you , you will get ban Edit: play with a duo might be the best option if you want to make this strategy popular . Like funnel strat , taric/sona . Etc
> [{quoted}](name=El Pgm Kamini,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-06-20T12:23:09.314+0000) > > And Riot is like : you need to explain the strat to your teammates because if they report you , you will get ban > How is that not a fair requirement? When I pick a mid laner I am picking a mid on the basis I will be in a solo lane often mage 1v1 match up. When I pick in adc I am going off the fact I will likely be 2v2 against another marksman and variable support. For example, if I knew I was going to be 1v2 in lane do you think I would have picked a champ with really low wave clear? If I knew teemo was camping me mid do you think I would have picked something that works off of his zoning to further my gold lead? To say that *typing for 20 seconds what you are going to do before game when your strat could completely change who your team is playing and what runes they take* is unreasonable is absolutely ridiculous imo.
TsakiVs (EUNE)
: Jungle feeling
Part of the issue is that jungle has arguably the most noticeable impact when one is better than the other. If I am losing top lane, 9/10 no one is going to notice until ~25m+ due to the nature of the island up here and the usual late game power of the champions that reside there. When a jungle is losing you constantly afraid to leave to tower, you are always out of wards trying to track them, spending constant gold on control wards, unable to take lane priority fearing ganks, usually at dragon disadvantages, unable to call for rift herald, etc. I think the other issue is alot of times junglers do things that fuck over laners and never compensate. the most Common examples are: * Trying to push tower but instead freezing wave on their side. * Seeing a low hp laner recalling and dying trying to turret dive. * Absorbing half an xp bar worth of minions afk in a nearby bush only to walk away. * Dying in ganks and then pretending that lane doesn't exist These things among others fuck over lanes in ways that no other role in the game can do reliably. Especially in low elo the first 3 bullet points happen almost every single game. Doing the first three bullets you can single handedly put a laner down over a kill in gold and xp when they have done nothing wrong.
: got my friend permabannede - he blocked me on every media - did I do the right thing?
Yeah I was in a similar situation a while ago with a friend that just could not for the life of him get his temper under control. It's just not good to play with those people. It's not good for you to constantly have negativity flow in your games when your trying to improve or have fun. You just gotta basically give them the "If you can't stop being toxic, we can't hang anymore" line and see where they choose to go.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QxoiAVEo,comment-id=000d00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T12:45:14.475+0000) > > If he hits his W w/o leap that is like atrocious positioning my guy. Especially for a ranged lane. Flash for flash plays are fair. It would be fair... if it wasn't the worst possible outcome for Galio in the case that his opponent does everything right. >Don't front line in lane so if he tries to go for an instant taunt by charging pre-flash he won't be in range. Flash taunt range is like 550. Unless you're Caitlin or an artillery support, that means hitting him AT ALL puts you in flash taunt range. It's not a case of "being the front line" putting you at risk. Landing anything at all, unless you're Xerath or Vel'koz, puts you at risk. >and now can bully him out of lane. Yes definitely. Because he totally won't have a shield that protects against magic damage... AKA the main damage type for support champions. Or a Relic item and two health pots. You can bully him out of lane after a failed flash-taunt **if and only if** you're the type of support who can all in and chain CC him to death. An enchanter or poke support ain't gonna do squat to him after he fails a flash-taunt. >Again, in your argument you say galio has to flash to get you sooooo if he doesn't have flash that means you now have lane priority for the next 5 minutes. Getting free lane prioirty for 5m is definitely worth a flash lol. Again, it only costs Galio's flash if he successfully charges it and you haven't escaped his flash range. Even then trading your flash for Galio's flash isn't lane priority for 5 minutes. It's lane priority for maybe 80 seconds until the first wave is cleared and he grabs his dash. Assuming he went for the flash taunt play during an invade. At any other point in the game it's lane priority until his W is off cooldown... which is 16 seconds at the most. > Welcome to league of legends. How come whenever bot lane gets a mechanic or champion all the other roles deal with every day they whine and call it unfair? Like every time. Welcome to the rest of the roles in the game. Your mad about flash for flash plays meanwhile the other lanes have match-ups where they need to flash from an unavoidable ability not an ability AND a summoner. "My role has to deal with this bullshit, so it's acceptable." Invalid logic detected. Also it's not a flash for flash play _unless you successfully performed a very difficult outplay_. 90% of the time it's a your-flash-for-50-of-his-mana play. Let me lay out the trade for you since you don't seem to understand that a play where the **worst possible outcome** is an even trade is not a fair tactic: Success for a flash-taunt is: You hit W, at 1.95 seconds you Flash and the enemy is caught. "Failure" for a flash-taunt is: You hit W, at 1.5 seconds the enemy uses Flash and you cancel your attack, having traded 50 mana for their summoner spell. **This is still an incredibly good trade** Massive failure for a flash-taunt is: You hit W, at 1.95 seconds both of you Flash, and the enemy gets away. You take no damage. **A nearly even trade.** Do you understand now? There is no outcome where Galio loses when he presses W, so long as he is in range to Flash onto the enemy and has his flash. At WORST, assuming he gets massively outplayed, he has wasted 50 mana to trade his Flash for the opponent's Flash. That is an incredibly low risk:reward ratio. At least when a hook support goes for a Flash hook play, you can hit Flash _after_ they do and still get away. And when they do fail a flash hook play, they don't have a magic damage shield built in to let them walk out without taking any damage from the support. For these champions, there is far more outplay potential and risk involved in the play. And lastly: > Using your kit correctly isn't "massive outplay" Yes, using your abilities at the perfect time, in the perfect order, to obtain the worst possible outcome for your opponent's play, is a massive outplay. That's the very definition of "outplaying" someone.
Not really trying to go into ever expanding paragraph quote wars so bullets will work for me ;) * Flash for flash plays are a standard laning mechanics, if you can't bully a flash dependent cheese champ then all that really says is you as a player cannot deal with a champion not that the champion is busted. It's perfectly fine to personally not be able to deal with a champ that isn't broken. * If you can't avoid his dash combo when he doesn't have flash maybe play top lane where these types of mechanics are common. You learn to read the enemies movements and positioning to predict when and where he is going to dash because top lane is based around the person with advantage to punish and bully the enemy at every chance and establish heavy lane presence. It's basically the exactly galio is doing to you in bot lane which is why he went top alot before the AP nerfs. * It's not a perfect and super hard outplay. It's standard mechanical knowledge that every role has to master to climb. Supports might actually need to learn micro-mechanics to avoid champions like galio. Big deal. Again I severely suggest you go top where champions like galio that will burn flash if you position wrong are pretty common.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QxoiAVEo,comment-id=000d000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-18T21:40:51.395+0000) > > i'm having trouble seeing this as an issue. About half if not more AD carries in the game have a way to get away from galio or have a move that disrupts the leap I didn't say his leap. I said his **W**. You know, the taunt where the counterplay is don't be inside the circle but so long as he has Flash he's allowed to move the circle right before it goes off? > or roots him. or can flat out just outspeed him. > {{champion:81}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:145}} And those 8 AD carries (almost half) get to watch the support get flash taunted instead. > Then for the other half of ADC's should have a support to be enough to peel a galio: > {{champion:12}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:161}} Slows do nothing to a flash taunt. Every enchanter in that list is fucked if Galio gets anywhere near them and has Flash up. As for the non enchanters... oh yeah, they can escape... if they throw their skillshot CC out AND manage to flash away in time after he flashes right over it. At that point they've outplayed their opponent... and it's an even trade. One ability and one summoner spell for one ability and one summoner spell. In what world is an even trade a fair result for getting massively outplayed? > Then at that point, that's just how really bad match-ups work. Bot lane doesn't often have to deal with flash or die match ups because of the unlikely hood that someone counter picks both bot laners at the same time Again, he doesn't have to counterpick both laners. Only one. Catching out either laner is sufficient to carry the lane. >but for Top, Mid and even JG there are usually 2-3 match ups per champion where they have a point and click or AoE if you walk up to me you flash or die button. Well there shouldn't be. Unavoidable engage is cancer.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QxoiAVEo,comment-id=000d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-18T23:07:01.258+0000) > > I didn't say his leap. I said his **W**. You know, the taunt where the counterplay is don't be inside the circle but so long as he has Flash he's allowed to move the circle right before it goes off? > If he hits his W w/o leap that is like atrocious positioning my guy. Especially for a ranged lane. Flash for flash plays are fair. > And those 8 AD carries (almost half) get to watch the support get flash taunted instead. > Then it's a flash for flash. Yes, flash plays 9/10 will cost you a flash to get out of of unless the enemy fucks it up. NOT TO MENTION, if you are standing in flash range while you see galio's W up, the again atrocious positioning. It takes 2 full seconds to charge so the only way he hits you instantly without you being able to flash is if you literally watch him charge it for 1.75 seconds and then he flashes on you. > fucked if Galio gets anywhere near them and has Flash up. Trading flash plays has been a thing in league since the beginning. Like I said above, you have 2 options. If he flashes instantly your trade flashes and now can bully him out of lane. Don't front line in lane so if he tries to go for an instant taunt by charging pre-flash he won't be in range. > As for the non enchanters... oh yeah, they can escape... if they throw their skillshot CC out AND manage to flash away in time after he flashes right over it. At that point they've outplayed their opponent... and it's an even trade. One ability and one summoner spell for one ability and one summoner spell. In what world is an even trade a fair result for getting massively outplayed? > Using your kit correctly isn't "massive outplay", it's you performed your 4 abilities like your supposed to. Again, in your argument you say galio has to flash to get you sooooo if he doesn't have flash that means you now have lane priority for the next 5 minutes. Getting free lane prioirty for 5m is definitely worth a flash lol. > Again, he doesn't have to counterpick both laners. Only one. Catching out either laner is sufficient to carry the lane. > Again, if he needs flash to get you and you picked flash the only time he catches you is when your positioning is trash. > Well there shouldn't be. Unavoidable engage is cancer. Welcome to league of legends. How come whenever bot lane gets a mechanic or champion all the other roles deal with every day they whine and call it unfair? Like every time. Welcome to the rest of the roles in the game. Your mad about flash for flash plays meanwhile the other lanes have match-ups where they need to flash from an unavoidable ability not an ability AND a summoner.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QxoiAVEo,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-06-18T19:52:54.954+0000) > > Do you mean in a teamfight or 1v1? because few champions lose 1v1 to galio all in and the ones that do can usually get away with an ability. In a teamfight, alot of champions have a "if this hits you, you die so you better flash ability". I mean in a botlane 2v2, or in an invade. You see him walking toward you, charging up his W, and you either flash before it's done charging, or he flashes and you die to the team behind him. Either way that's a good trade for only costing him 50 mana. There are plenty of other champions with "this lands and you die" abilities but they're all either dodgeable hooks or skillshots, or the danger of death comes from them being able to follow up with the rest of their kit. Galio support can kill you with an undodgeable skill lvl 1 or at least force your most important summoner spell lvl 1.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QxoiAVEo,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2019-06-18T21:01:14.571+0000) > > I mean in a botlane 2v2, or in an invade. > You see him walking toward you, charging up his W, and you either flash before it's done charging, or he flashes and you die to the team behind him. i'm having trouble seeing this as an issue. About half if not more AD carries in the game have a way to get away from galio or have a move that disrupts the leap or roots him. or can flat out just outspeed him. {{champion:81}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:145}} Then for the other half of ADC's should have a support to be enough to peel a galio: {{champion:12}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:161}} All of the above supports have either reliable CC or utility that can get their adc away from a galio while also not killing themselves. Like you really need to be playing a certain bot lane duo for galio to be a flash situation. Like soraka kogmaw or yuumi jinx. Then at that point, that's just how really bad match-ups work. Bot lane doesn't often have to deal with flash or die match ups because of the unlikely hood that someone counter picks both bot laners at the same time and the kit differences in the roles but for Top, Mid and even JG there are usually 2-3 match ups per champion where they have a point and click or AoE if you walk up to me you flash or die button.
: Hey here's an idea: how about NOT allowing a champion to spend 50 mana to force you to either blow Flash or die? Either you blow Flash before he does and his taunt goes off, or you don't blow Flash and you die. He wins either way. There should not exist "I win either way" spells in League of Legends.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QxoiAVEo,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-06-18T18:01:59.048+0000) > > Hey here's an idea: how about NOT allowing a champion to spend 50 mana to force you to either blow Flash or die? > Either you blow Flash before he does and his taunt goes off, or you don't blow Flash and you die. He wins either way. > There should not exist "I win either way" spells in League of Legends. Do you mean in a teamfight or 1v1? because few champions lose 1v1 to galio all in and the ones that do can usually get away with an ability. In a teamfight, alot of champions have a "if this hits you, you die so you better flash ability".
Zerenza (NA)
: {{item:3155}} {{item:3091}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3814}} Three items that are extremely effective against AP champions, edge of night used to give MR but a Spellshield against a mage is insanely strong and you can just pick up a hexdrinker, stack it with nullifying orb and you get 2 Magic Damage shields against a mage who only has at max 45+6 armor(runes) meanwhile you'll have 35+8(runes)MR and 2 shields specifically against them. It's unfair early in the game, afterwards i agree Zhonya's is a really good item but you have so many more options early in the game than mages and AP assassins do while also outscaling most of them.
> [{quoted}](name=Zerenza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=L0wYFEYi,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2019-06-17T03:31:56.986+0000) > > {{item:3155}} {{item:3091}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3814}} > > Three items that are extremely effective against AP champions, You act as if you can stack them. Each champion builds one of them in the same way a mage builds their one item. Their is no build that is above 1% play rate that uses 2+ of any of the items you listed. The only reason there are more is because AD champions can't all benefit from one AP resist how every single mage in the game benefits from zhonyas. The MR items are all niches that fit a class of champion where zhonyas is a core that fits all mages. That is why their is more. Try building wits end or scimitar on zed instead of edge of night. It's strictly a handicap doing so. There is not a single mage on my mind right now that goes mid and can't viably build zhonyas. > It's unfair early in the game, You mean the portion of the game AD assassins are supposed to beat them? > while also outscaling most of them. They dont.... you need to be literally afk or feeding for an AD assassin to outscale a mage or AP assassin. The only time AD assassins have ever outscaled mid is when I was in bronze because no mage knew how to not be afk and out of position. They literally just let assassins do their whole combo before they react and half the time use their items wrong.
: Tank meta was the lesser of two evils
Bruh, your account doesn't even go back to season 5 what are you on about tank meta was better? Tank meta was nothing but who ever had a 2/3 tank comp won. If you both had tanks, it was who ever had the AOE CC tanks. The other thing people seem to forget about that season is that you didn't get to play the game more because their were tanks. You were cced until you died so you played the game just as much being one shot. Typical Season 5 Game Assuming both teams actually wanted to win and played double/triple tank: Sion Sejuani Annie Vayne Leona vs Malphite Amumu Anivia Caitlyn Alistar ^ Yeah this looks like a lot of fucking fun to me. Afking for 20 seconds while you die unable to move you character is sooooooooo much better than being one shot and instantly being sent to gy so you can get back into game. Oh yeah, let's not forget the typical game was 40m and all of the 40 minutes of struggle was just decided by who snagged the baron last. Yeah man, that's so fun.
: Viegar/Nasus passive scaling is good design?
No their design is trash. They are either useless or hard carrying and obnoxious when they are the latter. Nasus takes your tower while tanking 2 champions then proceeds to double kill them when tower is dead when he is carrying and veigar just point and clicks you into the grave yard or lays down in aoe that does the same thing late game. Oh shit, got hit by one, guess I'll sit in graveyard. I get that it's a long animation but that is ignoring the fact that top lane usually has hard cc, support usually has hard cc, JG usually has either hard or soft CC and veigar himself has fucking CC. If they want to hit you veig W, you are getting hit lol.
: You do realize nearly 30 of some 63 junglers take too much damage level 1 to not make a leashless game viable? You are delaying your jungler by about 15 seconds, destroying his level 2 gank potential, and putting many of them at about 50% HP, which is absolutely exploitable to invades. It's not always about what you think will happen. It's about the fact you put your jungler in a situation where they are at heavy risk. Many junglers don't even have heals.... outside of their trinkets.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JjXvE5pb,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-16T19:52:12.165+0000) > > You do realize nearly 30 of some 63 junglers take too much damage level 1 to not make a leashless game viable? > > You are delaying your jungler by about 15 seconds, destroying his level 2 gank potential, and putting many of them at about 50% HP, which is absolutely exploitable to invades. > > It's not always about what you think will happen. It's about the fact you put your jungler in a situation where they are at heavy risk. Many junglers don't even have heals.... outside of their trinkets. I'm sorry but SuperTop is pretty head on. JG should almost always start bot side in this meta of first one to get a gold lead win's lane for free. Especially since like he said, the JG will not come top despite making you lose level advantage. It's a slower leash so it's not like bot lane where you can still make it down and catch the whole wave. A lot of top laners flat out lose half the first wave if they leash. As a lane bully player, I just see a free win whenever the enemy top leashes. Tops are going to continue not leashing or giving shitty leashes until the laning phase isn't absolutely garbage and just blatantly unfun when you are any amount of behind or until junglers actually gank top lane and not only when top is already 3-0. But no, gotta gank the feeding 0-12 bot lane and get triple killed instead of a free kill top on the wardless champion that has been over extended for 12m.
knobblez (NA)
: Taking jungle camps from the jungler
Then can taxing my wave for doing nothing but sitting in bush and soaking xp be reportable too? Meanwhile jg's miss half the cs and no one even gets the gold anyway trying to be slick and aoeing.
: Nullifying Orb Rune, be able to choose to be a Magic or physical shield
Yes because zhonyas isn't an assassin cock block already. let's give a mages zhonyas AND an AD barrier summoner on top of the exhaust and barrier they already take in assassin match ups. Bruh just delete assassins from the game I guess lol. #MageMasterRace.
Elzeior (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PQXy7f7m,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2019-06-14T20:02:24.866+0000) > > it's trying because you have 2 options. You can stay out of meta and get an automatic loss because your team doesn't want to play with you or you can go bot even if your not as good there and at least have an above 0% chance to win. I think in the video he even said, if my team tilts we auto-lose but if they don't we win. So he knew going into that game when his top and jg tilted it was an auto-loss and still continued to do it to try to prove a point. Even in the video, "So what happens when we win this game, am I still trolling". At that point, it's who's ego is bigger yours or your team's. Like I said he didn't even do the strat like he usually does. He literally just sat mid to prove a point when it's supposed to be the "roaming" teemo strat not the duo-mid strat. > > Yes, he has the right to try new things but when you know your going to lose the game by continuing what your doing but do it to make a point it's nothing but another ego battle in league. But it wasn't an automatic loss, and most of that Teemo player's game aren't losses what are you talking about? Nightblue wasn't tilted at all he literally was fine, wasn't angry he was clearly enjoying putting out that false report. Whose ego is bigger? You're defending a guy who is the equivalent to a 13-year-old kid saying his dad works for Xbox. Except in this case someone actually got suspended for no good reason other than someone's toxic opinion. I cannot believe you actually believe anything you typed and it was enough to make me actually post for the first time ever on the LoL forums. This makes my stomach churn. What is worse is your previous well a player afks in base, right and the guy doing something unorthodox strat and sticking to it is petty and prideful right? Not the guy literally giving up because he cannot control another person's playstyle. My god how awful of a person do you have to be to think and believe that was decent behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=Elzeior,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PQXy7f7m,comment-id=0012000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-14T20:59:18.187+0000) > > But it wasn't an automatic loss, It was an automatic loss, when everyone on your team is tilted except you it doesn't matter how close the score is, you will lose unless that game is blessed by mount targon. >and most of that Teemo player's game aren't losses what are you talking about? I never said he loses alot of games or anything about his match history on teemo. I just restated what he himself said in the video. He said if his teammates flame he automatically loses on his stream so don't Strawman fallacy please. ty. >Nightblue wasn't tilted at all he literally was fine, wasn't angry he was clearly enjoying putting out that false report. Anger =/= Tilt, anger is the most common symptom of tilt but doesn't define it. > Whose ego is bigger? You're defending a guy who is the equivalent to a 13-year-old kid saying his dad works for Xbox. Never defended anyone, stop Strawman-ing. It's simple. It takes 2 people for an argument or fight. No matter how wrong one side is, a argument physically cannot happen when 1 person. He stayed mid and even played his own strat wrong just to prove a point. That is called ego. Purposefully misplaying what you intended to do because your mad at someone for what ever reason is ego. That's all there is to it. >Except in this case someone actually got suspended for no good reason other than someone's toxic opinion. Sorry but it actually is a good reason and is in riot's term of use. Notice how the ban said "disruptive". It is bannable to do something that tiltes every single member on your team into a loss. >I cannot believe you actually believe anything you typed and it was enough to make me actually post for the first time ever on the LoL forums. This makes my stomach churn. > lololololol this sentence reminded me of when a news reporter shot an ar and described it as the most terrifying stomach churning momemnt and his life meanwhile there is an 8 year old next to him doing it. lolololol k continue xD my bad lol. > What is worse is your previous well a player afks in base, right and the guy doing something unorthodox strat and sticking to it is petty and prideful right? Except he didn't and that's what your missing. Go watch his vods because you clearly don't watch his streams when he does the strat. His "ROAMING" teemo strat is never afk in one lane the whole game until you lose. He did this out of spite for being flame. Again, that is called ego. > My god how awful of a person do you have to be to think and believe that was decent behavior. Strawman #4, man if this were an official debate you would have been literally banned from participation. Holy fuck lol.
l MrD l (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PQXy7f7m,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-06-14T19:44:31.461+0000) > > I mean even the irelia afked in base and the neeko was also mad at him so even if your trying to win, if you see your pissing off 3/4 of your teammates doesn't the thought occur to just go bot? That's why it is called "disruptive" because your actions tilted your entire team except sivir who was still actually trying at the end. > > I get the whole boring meta thing but if it were me and people were essentially running it down because I'm duo mid, I would just eat my pride and go bot. He didn't even do the "roaming" teemo support like he usually does. He just stayed mid all game almost just to make a point out of ego to nightblue. > > This whole situation couldve been avoided if he just went bot when his team was clearly going to tilt out of the game then just writing a ticket after reporting them for toxicity and forcing him into a playstyle. thing is though we are all trying to win games and if were forced to play what other people say ... are we actually truly trying? or just hoping for the best that as a support you can get a good ADC and peel well for them to carry
> [{quoted}](name=l MrD l,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PQXy7f7m,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2019-06-14T19:52:20.047+0000) > > thing is though we are all trying to win games and if were forced to play what other people say ... are we actually truly trying? or just hoping for the best that as a support you can get a good ADC and peel well for them to carry it's trying because you have 2 options. You can stay out of meta and get an automatic loss because your team doesn't want to play with you or you can go bot even if your not as good there and at least have an above 0% chance to win. I think in the video he even said, if my team tilts we auto-lose but if they don't we win. So he knew going into that game when his top and jg tilted it was an auto-loss and still continued to do it to try to prove a point. Even in the video, "So what happens when we win this game, am I still trolling". At that point, it's who's ego is bigger yours or your team's. Like I said he didn't even do the strat like he usually does. He literally just sat mid to prove a point when it's supposed to be the "roaming" teemo strat not the duo-mid strat. Yes, he has the right to try new things but when you know your going to lose the game by continuing what your doing but do it to make a point it's nothing but another ego battle in league.
: WTF HOLY BALLS I LOVE YOU RITO
I got the ezreal, udyr and MF ultimates outta the box for free. People still out here tryna call it predatory and p2w lol. I have more skins from the boxes for free than I have bought.
: Nightblue gets a player Falsely banned.
I mean even the irelia afked in base and the neeko was also mad at him so even if your trying to win, if you see your pissing off 3/4 of your teammates doesn't the thought occur to just go bot? That's why it is called "disruptive" because your actions tilted your entire team except sivir who was still actually trying at the end. I get the whole boring meta thing but if it were me and people were essentially running it down because I'm duo mid, I would just eat my pride and go bot. He didn't even do the "roaming" teemo support like he usually does. He just stayed mid all game almost just to make a point out of ego to nightblue. This whole situation couldve been avoided if he just went bot when his team was clearly going to tilt out of the game then just writing a ticket after reporting them for toxicity and forcing him into a playstyle.
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qq9gxAmW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-14T18:05:53.200+0000) > > So riot said in an ask riot a couple years ago why CC has dmg. "It feels good to use"....no really. They used chogath as an example and said if chogath Q didn't do alot of dmg it wouldn't "feel" good. This of course also at a time Cho was S tier.... So essentially people do damage on CC so you can stroke your massive E-peen when you land it. Lol nice, I didn't know this but that's pretty funny. Hmm I guess it does feel good to do damage, but I personally just think it's a little unfair that hard cc does damage while other abilities that do damage dont have hard cc. Hm what do you think? Do you think it's fair that hard cc does high damage? Do you think hard cc should do high damage even if it's unfair? Do you think it's fair because the hard cc abilities are hard to execute? I'd like to know your opinion if you want to share :)
> [{quoted}](name=miightofdemacia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qq9gxAmW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-14T18:17:22.998+0000) > > Lol nice, I didn't know this but that's pretty funny. Hmm I guess it does feel good to do damage, but I personally just think it's a little unfair that hard cc does damage while other abilities that do damage dont have hard cc. Hm what do you think? Do you think it's fair that hard cc does high damage? Do you think hard cc should do high damage even if it's unfair? Do you think it's fair because the hard cc abilities are hard to execute? I'd like to know your opinion if you want to share :) I don't necesarily think it's unfair because champions work based on power budgets. Meaning if malphite like someone said earlier, if that champion had all his damage removed from his ult that just means he would have left-over dmg in his power budget and riot would assign it to an ability like his Q. So now not only does malphite have a solid 5-man engage, he can also point and click nuke you w/o going ap because all the damage got moved to his Q. Or maokai, if they took the damage off his W they would just throw it on his Q or E. You would essentially have tanks that are playing like beefy mages.
: Should hard cc have high damage?
So riot said in an ask riot a couple years ago why CC has dmg. "It feels good to use"....no really. They used chogath as an example and said if chogath Q didn't do alot of dmg it wouldn't "feel" good. This of course also at a time Cho was S tier.... So essentially people do damage on CC so you can stroke your massive E-peen when you land it.
: The system does not encourage you to reconnect to a match
I mean the game seems to be so early game focused nowadays I don't wanna reconnect anyway lol. Whenever someone on my team DCs I always pray they don't make the remake timer and I've even had people vote yes on remake even when we see "summoner reconnected". Call me an ass but here is what happens in the majority of reconnect cases, they feed. They don't play like they are behind, go for the same plays they would do if they were fed or they don't give up CS and just die for it. Usually tilting and being extremely toxic in the process because they want someone to win their lane for them since they DCed. I, personally, have never had someone in my lane , top, come back from being afk and not feed me to the point game was over. To the point both mid and jg have to gank to help because turret can't stop me then I just get a triple. It's honestly just not fair.
: Morde sitting at 70% ban rate, 13% pick rate, and 56% WR even with 0 expereince on him
I don't think you can nerf a champion with his type of kit too early. I'm sure many people are under-estimating his ultimate and it's leading to more snowballs than it should.
: Riot's nerfing philosophy
Yorick has been top tier since the start of the season for the vast majority of elos what are you talking about???? The only elo he hasn't be at LEAST A tier since the beginning of the season is Diamond+. Even in platinum he's still A tier. Hell, in your elo he's literally a deity, yorick has always been the free-lo champ from Iron and Bronze this season. He's been ~52%+ even in higher elo the entire season and higher the lower the elo you go. The only elo he falls off is again, diamond and above so I can why a streamer would call him bad but the average player should have ZERO issue climbing on yorick.
Scryble (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rebel 986,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vrmBjMNv,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-13T13:43:36.136+0000) > > I feel same way. Gender has nothing to do with it but skill and experience does. Off topic: The literal most jarring thing about this thread is the amount of downvotes the original commenter got compared to an affirmation for the original commentor's comment.
> [{quoted}](name=Scryble,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vrmBjMNv,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-14T13:00:27.153+0000) > > Off topic: The literal most jarring thing about this thread is the amount of downvotes the original commenter got compared to an affirmation for the original commentor's comment. Humans online are delicate flowers. The presentation of your argument matters 10000000x more than your actual argument on forums. If you don't present it the right way people's fragile ego and self view gets hurt.
: -"Again, not to mention the 1000x rng factors that affect players performance that LCS players are effectively immune to. " You're going off topic here you initial argument was that when an adc falls behind they are unable to come back from it. My response was thats because players who are playing late game champs play them far too aggressively and when they get punished THEN they wanna play how they shouldve been playing. At that point its too late once you feed there is no playing safe. Do i agree with you that the LCS players don't have to deal with braindead teammates yes, but does that mean theyre playing a different game no. Again your argument wasnt on winning and losing it was on being able to mount comebacks and how every other lane can mount comebacks but bot cant. -The whole support's being stronger and towers being weaker and bot lanes dying under turret i agree completely with. So i think thats common ground we both can agree on but this happens because of Riot's choice how they view "supports" im against that idea to begin with. But how does this contribute to your argument if anything it tells me you had the option to pick one of those dmg based supports instead players go with more traditional supports and wonder why they fall behind when they get out damaged. -" The BOT lane is shitting the bed but their role controls the most impactful monster in the game save baron. " Rift herald can get you first tower gold and a ton of plating so it has a good amount of gold invested in it. Either way both objectives are useful but you can have a team commit to a drake and get it for free but top laners never want to commit a tp for it. If it was that important you'd see more tp fights around drake in the lower elos but they just dont care about it unless its infernal. -As for your jungle getting popped, when you play a champ like khazix you're playing for the pop or be popped game if you get on top of brand hes gone but that again falls into the hands of "supports doing too much dmg" wihich i agree with you on. So i wont go deeper into this. -"Again your phrasing implies that bot is in isolation and no other roles exist. Should the top lane that is 7 kills up and 60 cs up not deserve to win by your standards you set in this post?" What im implying is if anyone feeds that lane is going to be a problem when you feed the team's constantly dps it just makes that issue even worse because they have a frontline and their range is their defense. So it takes getting through those 2 before you can even get on top of them which is least likely going to happen but if you do manage to get on top you probably lost a chunk of your health already and used a ton of your abilities. That nature of the game is centered around your adc and your top laner is a meat shield for them if their not a 1v9 champ as you say like riven or fiora which are so good at 1v9ing because they can kill the adc and in a skilled player's hands theyll start with the adc before anything. -"Bot lane feeding is arguably the most important position feeding and makes the vast majority of other champions fairly weak even when equally fed as bot lane. " This has always been the case tho its not something new. It was always *take bot tower swap with top take top tower group mid take mid tower and push* rinse repeat game after game after game. It never changes. Bot is your siege engine if theyre stronger than the enemy team's siege you win both teamfights and in objectives. (Assuming brains are being used) So idk how this ties into your point of adcs not being able to make a come back. My thoughts: I agree with most of the stuff you're saying about the game centering around bot lane but its always been centered around bot lane for the longest time, but i dont think that means you can just take away a player's lead because they died once to a lane thats been feeding all game. Can you imagine how frusturating that would be to be in the lead for 25 mins and lose it all because you died 1 time?
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nVMEaWE0,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-11T02:54:58.069+0000) > ... Skipping to bottom, save space, save the trees. > -"Bot lane feeding is arguably the most important position feeding and makes the vast majority of other champions fairly weak even when equally fed as bot lane. " > This has always been the case tho its not something new. It was always *take bot tower swap with top take top tower group mid take mid tower and push* rinse repeat game after game after game. It never changes. Bot is your siege engine if theyre stronger than the enemy team's siege you win both teamfights and in objectives. (Assuming brains are being used) So idk how this ties into your point of adcs not being able to make a come back. > Not entirely. Bot has always been important for your team to have ahead but not by the amount it is now. That is the issue. It's okay if a role is more important to be ahead. One role HAS to be most important. That's how it is. However, again the support issue and lack of safe haven's has turned x100. No one cares if bot is more important, the issue is when bot is SOOOOO important that you can call games accurately based on how bot lane is doing currently at 10 minutes. > Can you imagine how frusturating that would be to be in the lead for 25 mins and lose it all because you died 1 time? That's the average game for top lane, jungle and some mids when bot lane is losing. Aye, guys were doing pretty goods! How's bot la.....BOT LANE WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!?!??! - I guess I haven't made my suggestion clear. My solution wouldn't be to increase combeback gold or anything to punish people for losing a fight. My solution is to revert all the bullshit that causes those unfair leads, not take them away after they are achieved. I mean giving bot lane a comeback in the sense of when they die "play safe" is an actual viable advice. For example, if it were me, I would start by flat out removing turret plating, restoring original turret health and armor, and buffing early game damage per shot. Then I would probably take a look into support items and support champions AP scaling to make sure an ahead support doesn't do as much as a standalone champion because they aren't designed to be another mid laner. Now this next part is highly experimental but I would look into making the AP support item scale it's gold off utility used and not damage. For example landing CC, successfully shielding damage and healing over lost hp (not including healing when at 100%). This encourages actually supporting your ADC and not just damaging the fuck out of the other ADC. Most harass SUPPORTS would still likely be viable because they have multiple abilities with hard or soft CC like zyra or zilean but it would push out mid laners that don't have reliably CC and just have dmg and further allow riot to tune other supports harass down since they get gold off utility now. I have no idea about this ^ tho, like I said 100% random tuning thought.
: -"Not sure where you got this argument from. You created a fabricated argument about feeding mid lane then argued with yourself about it. Weird because the argument you quoted said you don't win a free game for winning lane." I should've gave more insight the reason i brought up mages and vayne is because mages are late game champs just like vayne is when they get stompped in lane their late game is delayed so this is the argument usually made by those types of players. They normally want to be crushed in lane and want a comeback to happen for them because they're playing "late game champs". -"This argument is irrelevant. You may as well equated the LCS to soloQ." The game you're playing is the same as LCS players. Where you're correct about just meeting players and a lot of other factors involved doesnt mean you're not playing league of legends. Much like LCS players we both play league of legends just as you just met your team and face those random factors the enemy team does as well. You're not against an LCS team believe it or not. Bounty gold is in place to mount comebacks. -"All of these statements were also true in previous seasons however bot didn't auto-int every game. I wonder what wasn't true in previous seasons. " Actually towers used to be both tankier and deal more dmg per shot in previous seasons. It was only when players complained towers got nerfed.https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8ogql7/turrets_received_another_nerf_sr_global_defenses/ Heres a post of when turrets got "another nerf" ( i was too lazy to look up the patch where they got nerfed initially i believe it was during the time when summoner's rift got its visual update). The point you made about support's dmg i agree on ill be making a post later on about how i think league should be and id like to hear your thoughts on it as well. -"So yes, while shutdown is worth ~3-400 gold more currently, the enemy that won lane will also be snowballed by twice the amount the would have been including tower sieging with at this point in the game is free gold for ahead bot lanes." 1. Not always the lane winning gets the plates. Ive seen a team 4 man even 5 man a bot lane to take turret and plating when their bot lane is losing. That would be the correct way to get out of the lane. If you're getting crushed 10 mins into the game so hard that you cant protect your own plating (meaning the enemy laners are pushed against your turret) what does that say that bot lane did in lane besides int. If you're losing all your plating and turret within the first 14 mins being the first 2 mins is really no way to siege on so first 12 mins, they probably have the better players or your bot lane was playing pretty poorly. The only other time is from jungle ganks which again would sum up to poor play and lack of vision be it through wards or awareness. 2. So my argument still stands why play that poorly and expect to come back because you killed the fed player one time? Does that seem reasonable to shit the bed the entire laning phase just to catch the opposing fed laner once and want an instant comeback? You're already getting back half the plating gold for shutdown gold assuming you got 0 plating at all. -"For example, first team to 2 dragons has an average winrate of 75% depending on dragon combination." I need to know where you got this stat from, but for the sake of the discussion lets assume this is valid. First drake is usually taken around 7-8 min mark in the game takes 2 mins spawn so around the 10 min mark at best, you'd have those 2 drakes. A game averages around 30 mins in length https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations So you think shitting the bed in the first 1/3 of the game which dictates the next 2/3s of the game shouldnt lead to a 75W/25L rate? The fact that a fourth of the time the team can even come back. In every 4 games that 1 comeback from a team that got shit on in the first 33% of the game. Best case scenario being the first 25% of the game since 30 mins is an average... oh wait makes sense that 25% would correlate to the higher end game times because it matches up with the percentage of times the losing team comes back to win. So you can come back its just harder to. This doesnt make late game champs irrelevant it just gives early game champs the right to be dominant in the early game as the name "early game champs" suggests. My entire argument is based on dont pick a late game champ lose lane HARD and expect to still win. Keyword is hard if you're down 20-40 cs its fine comebacks from that happen easily just off your champs scaling, but if you're down 20-60 cs and 7 kills yea no you dont give the enemy laners (1 kill = 15 cs 7kills = 15*7 = 105 cs) 10 mins worth of cs while zoning you off that cs and turn around and say "we shouldnt lose because im playing vayne or twitch bot or any other late game champ), no game is going to reward scaling champs to be 2x as strong as any other champ. Even in the early game early game champs dont kill their laning opponents 2x faster, so why do you expect any different from late game champs.
> [{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nVMEaWE0,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-10T21:42:56.129+0000) > > > -"This argument is irrelevant. You may as well equated the LCS to soloQ." > The game you're playing is the same as LCS players. Where you're correct about just meeting players and a lot of other factors involved doesnt mean you're not playing league of legends. I don't agree with this at all. Everything game-play tactic about LCS is different from solo queue . If you gave me just the mini-map of an LCS game and a ranked game I could tell you which was LCS and which was normal ranked. Maybe not in master+ but for the other 99% of players, yeah, it would be easy. Again, not to mention the 1000x rng factors that affect players performance that LCS players are effectively immune to. For example, when does an LCS player have to deal with a teammate that is high, drunk, 10, 2 hour sleep, has to go to work in 20m, etc. If every role didn't have viable catch-up like bot currently doesn't, you would see a true coinflip meta. > -"All of these statements were also true in previous seasons however bot didn't auto-int every game. I wonder what wasn't true in previous seasons. " > Actually towers used to be both tankier and deal more dmg per shot in previous seasons. It was only when players complained towers got nerfed.https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8ogql7/turrets_received_another_nerf_sr_global_defenses/ > Heres a post of when turrets got "another nerf" ( i was too lazy to look up the patch where they got nerfed initially i believe it was during the time when summoner's rift got its visual update). The point you made about support's dmg i agree on ill be making a post later on about how i think league should be and id like to hear your thoughts on it as well. > If they are still less powerful then yeah, that combined with supports ridiculous power this season is probably a huge reason why bot has no safe haven to "play safe". I mean, half the time I see bot die they are under turret. I, Myself will only play a game I get auto-filled bot if I get something like Xayah or Ezreal that are almost dive proof. > -"So yes, while shutdown is worth ~3-400 gold more currently, the enemy that won lane will also be snowballed by twice the amount the would have been including tower sieging with at this point in the game is free gold for ahead bot lanes." > 1. Not always the lane winning gets the plates. Ive seen a team 4 man even 5 man a bot lane to take turret and plating when their bot lane is losing. That would be the correct way to get out of the lane. If you're getting crushed 10 mins into the game so hard that you cant protect your own plating (meaning the enemy laners are pushed against your turret) what does that say that bot lane did in lane besides int. If you're losing all your plating and turret within the first 14 mins being the first 2 mins is really no way to siege on so first 12 mins, they probably have the better players or your bot lane was playing pretty poorly. The only other time is from jungle ganks which again would sum up to poor play and lack of vision be it through wards or awareness. > 2. So my argument still stands why play that poorly and expect to come back because you killed the fed player one time? Does that seem reasonable to shit the bed the entire laning phase just to catch the opposing fed laner once and want an instant comeback? You're already getting back half the plating gold for shutdown gold assuming you got 0 plating at all. > It's majority rules. The winning side in the majority of causes gets plating. That's nothing new. Unless were talking like Iron-tier wave management. Also, bot lane being unable to defend turret works differently than other lanes not only having 2 players but also being ranged AD champion sieges. You don't need to be inted to lose your plating bot. When a harass support like zyra, brand, zilean is ahead, they can by themselves pressures most duos off a tower. They don't need to be inted. They just need to be ahead. Not even account for the ADC. As a former support main, I would often get solo kills under their own tower while my AD just sieged turret with harass supports. Utility comps with champions like soraka, nami and sona are not only able bully you but can also sustain the ADC through turret for hp trades. So your doing your job as AD auto atking 4 times when they go for turret dmg, oh wait, nami just heal it back up and then damaged you for twice as much as you did. Wait a minute... Taking the heat away from supports for a minute, ADCs being ranged AD champions presents another difficulty. If someone is trying to siege my tower top they have to be right at the center of my turret damn near and I can trade them for half their health. Their are many ADC match-ups where not only can the AD atk you outside turret range, the can straight up siege tower outside range or at least close enough to range that one millisecond and they are outside of tower range. In this situation, it is pretty rare for an ADC to fear towers unless they get like hooked or snared under turret which is avoidable and on them for being hit. Many of the ADC match ups DEPEND on the support being able to stop the ADC from siegeing. But again because of the power imbalance in ahead supports, it's rare a behind support will do anything to an ahead support. Even when I'm countered thresh into morgana or something, when I'm ahead I just body them. It's really not fair at all. I just have twice their power output because of one misplay by them. > -"For example, first team to 2 dragons has an average winrate of 75% depending on dragon combination." > I need to know where you got this stat from, but for the sake of the discussion lets assume this is valid. First drake is usually taken around 7-8 min mark in the game takes 2 mins spawn so around the 10 min mark at best, you'd have those 2 drakes. A game averages around 30 mins in length https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/game-durations > So you think shitting the bed in the first 1/3 of the game which dictates the next 2/3s of the game shouldnt lead to a 75W/25L rate? The fact that a fourth of the time the team can even come back. In every 4 games that 1 comeback from a team that got shit on in the first 33% of the game. Best case scenario being the first 25% of the game since 30 mins is an average... oh wait makes sense that 25% would correlate to the higher end game times because it matches up with the percentage of times the losing team comes back to win. So you can come back its just harder to. This doesnt make late game champs irrelevant it just gives early game champs the right to be dominant in the early game as the name "early game champs" suggests. Same website you used for duration. The TEAM isn't shitting the bed. The BOT lane is shitting the bed but their role controls the most impactful monster in the game save baron. Move dragon to top lane then you can keep that argument. Mid lane being able to help entirely depends on match-up as natural roamers can just solo kill most ahead mid laners when out of lane protection. Wave clearing mids won't let your wave ever be in a position to roam that won't put you down 15 cs and turret plating. So essentially, gold wise, leaving lane is equivalent to just inting your lane a kill. Top lane helping is just not gonna happen if it's not shen. Thank the LCS for 6 teleport nerfs and turning the summ into a back to lane button. Oh and let's not forget to mention turret plating again. The majority of tanks, jugs and bruisers top take demolish so if you tp and get nothing because your bot can't ward right or because the tp channel takes 9 years now you lost 450 gold in plating and are 15+ cs down. Thanks riot :) The only role in the game that can reliably help ever game is JG and even then when one side's bot is ahead as a rule of thumb that side's JG is ahead as well. Even without that rule of thumb, there are many meta JGs right now that simply can't contest the meta bot duos right now. How many times has something like a khazix come to gank to get POPPED by a brand? Squishy JGs coming to help in this meta are just free kills for bot lane. Whenever I play supp I wish their squishy JG would gank me. It's like playing illaoi with 5 tentacles. > > My entire argument is based on dont pick a late game champ lose lane HARD and expect to still win. Keyword is hard if you're down 20-40 cs its fine comebacks from that happen easily just off your champs scaling, but if you're down 20-60 cs and 7 kills yea no Again your phrasing implies that bot is in isolation and no other roles exist. Should the top lane that is 7 kills up and 60 cs up not deserve to win by your standards you set in this post? Ah but that usually doesn't happen because bot lane including support being ahead has much more game impact than just top. Unless the top is playing a 1v9 champ or paying for the afk top yorick win and hoping the enemy has 0iq and let's him do it. Hell, the top is lucky if the fed ad and support don't come up there at 9m and clap his ass too because even though hes equally as fed, a 1v2 is a 1v2. That is why players hate their bot lanes right now. Bot lane feeding is arguably the most important position feeding and makes the vast majority of other champions fairly weak even when equally fed as bot lane. Unless your playing a 1v9 champion or naturally counter the fed adc, the bot lane feeding is the end of your game no matter what other role is equally as fed.
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