: The item drops are weighted, so even if you only have 2 items by krugs, you are much more likely to get items in the future. So by the time you hit late game, everyone should have 5-7 items regardless of your early luck. If you somehow get to late game with only 1 item still, then god bless your soul because that’s incredibly unlucky.
People keep saying that there is a comeback mechanic regarding item quantity, but I have yet to see it in action. I don't think it actually exists. People behind on items tend to stay behind the entire match. I do recall a game or two where the only items I received were the ones from the carousel, but it's very frequent that I don't receive any items from the first 3 matches at all. Krugs tend to be the first to provide additional items.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Except this is irrelevant. If i have 6 nobles, im coming in at least 4th, so ive already won.
Being proud of finishing 4th out of 10 is like celebrating a D-
AuronRoo (NA)
: Why Do Krugs Get a Health Reset?
To further screw over players who didn't get any item drops before.
Pika Fox (NA)
: I played a game where i only got 1 item drop early. Still came second. Everyone else had far more items than i did. Items are a minor part of the game. Composition matters far more. I even made numerous mistakes because i was constantly being bombarded with texts irl mid way in and i swapped to gunslingers a bit early and didnt swap my two items over in time. Rarely will items completely screw you out of doing well, and in games they do you can still easily place top 4, or even 5th and lose minimal LP.
A good comp is still worse than a good comp with items. Which would you rather have? 6 Nobles with 2 items -or- 6 Nobles with 6 items Remember, every item provides stat bonuses on top of their other effects.
: I mean, it’s usually fine from my experience. I just shift my focus to a less item reliant composition with a stronger late game and play eco.
And what do you do about other people going for a strong late game and eco, but with 6 items instead of 1?
: i won 1st place with 2 starting items [pieces not full] and was still behind in items in late game. predict that if you can. {{sticker:sg-ezreal}}
Your lack of details is fishy.
Barkley (NA)
: If someone gets 2 items early and goes on a win streak, just sandbag yourself and go for the loss streak economy while you wait for more items. Statistically, in later rounds he'll get less items and you'll get more -- which will put you on even footing item-wise. And he'll have done one of two things -- he will either have saved his money and rode his win streak the rest of the game, building up economy (in which case you're evenly matched and the better player can win through skill, and you've had this whole game to build specifically to counter him) Or he'll have foolishly spent his money in an effort to maintain his power advantage through the game and win by brute force -- in which case he probably isn't expecting the last-place guy to all of a sudden make a surge with a comp that beats his, and you win. This game is as much about how you play as it is how other people play, and item RNG is designed in such a way where if you don't get any items in one round, your chances of getting items in the next round are higher. So it tends to even out. And even if it doesn't and you're in the RARE instance where you get ZERO items all game long, and your opponents get 6-7 items, well.... shit happens, friend. Go next. This is statistically rare, and the only reason it sucks so much is recency bias. If you were to look at your last 10 games (oh wait, you can't! There's no match history) you would see that this just simply is not the case as often as you think. It is much more often the case that everyone ends the game with roughly equal items, because that is how the system is designed -- and its working as intended. I'm not saying its a GOOD system, I don't like it myself. I think everyone should get the same opportunity at items, with MAYBE ONE or TWO RNG items appearing in each game -- but that's not the point. The point is that the current system is not nearly as terrible as people make it out to be. Terrible? Yes. But not nearly as much as people want to believe. If we made a pie chart of all the reasons your win rate isn't quite as good as you'd expect it to be, item RNG would be a nearly negligible slice of that pie. There are other factors at play, here. And even some of those might not be your fault, either. Broken heroes. Broken items. Heroes standing around. Bad draw. Some comps are just plain weak. That sort of thing. But item RNG is a very, very small part of your win rate.
> [{quoted}](name=Barkley,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=zTM483is,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-21T19:12:29.410+0000) > Statistically, in later rounds he'll get less items and you'll get more -- which will put you on even footing item-wise. This is not true from my experience. I wouldn't call myself an expert, I've been playing on and off for the past few weeks, but none of my games have showcased this equity effect. Games where I start out strong end with me strong, games where I start out weak end with me weak. I can't recall a single comeback, in both terms of placement and item quantity, in any of my games. I know the devs have said that there is an item balancing mechanic but I have yet to see this effect.
Rioter Comments
skerodobre (EUNE)
: Nice concept, but based on luck only and also some combos are too broken from the beginning
An RFC completely screws over a yordle team, but yeah, good luck fighting over Recurve Bows. You'll be unable to assemble one late game unless you maxed out your Luck stat at birth.
Barkley (NA)
: There's really only two viable routes right now.
Yeah, TFT's rng and forced meta has gotten old really quick. Riot got their money from LLs so it's all downhill from here.
IcyWard (NA)
: I want to thank Riot
Again, I want to thank Riot for giving me a real challenge by providing me with only 2 items an entire match and only one 2 star champion combination. My opponents were provided entire teams of 2 stars and given quadruple the number of items, but this is a real game of skill well deserving of a ranked mode!
BigFBear (EUW)
: Just had 6 Goldens, lawl
Sick slot machine skills, yo
Rioter Comments
: Why do you think TFT is so popular?
It's triggering people's gambling addictions. It has a literal slot machine in it, just without the lever and spinning animations.
: honestly could be interesting if we actually could buy items.
It would be more interesting if players could bet on items. Add auctions and watch players blow all their interest on completing their RFC.
: honestly could be interesting if we actually could buy items.
People would drop 50g for a recurve bow. {{item:1043}}
Youngcuck (EUW)
: My honest feedback upon reaching Plat III in TFT
> [{quoted}](name=Youngcuck,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=hr7LWKUA,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-20T08:53:45.226+0000) > The point I'm trying to get across is that regardless of your RNG you can always work something out in TFT, youre always given everything you need to build a competitive strategy. And honestly, I dont get why people complain about the amount of items that people are given. Sorry, but this is BS. Players can receive double or even triple the amount of items of other players. A player with 1 Redemption is at a horrible disadvantage against a player with 2 Redemptions. Any strategy you attempt to employ will be at the mercy of RNG, and it will often not give you enough tools to complete it. If strategy were the key factor in winning games, then it should be possible to win with only 1 star champions or minimum items, but we both know that isn't true in both cases unless everyone has the same bad luck. > [{quoted}](name=Youngcuck,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=hr7LWKUA,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-20T08:53:45.226+0000) > Not getting the items at the beginning means you'll need to play a more defensive playstyle and adapt your champions to survive long enough to get whatever you need. Excuse me, but adapt with what? You can't build a fort without tools or supplies. What are you going to do against the player using a defensive or similar playstyle to yours but with a large item advatange?
Rioter Comments
: sarcastic thank you posts to riot are so dull and overdrawn lol yawn
Thanks! I appreciate your intelligent feedback!
Rioter Comments
: Pretty much proof Pyke needs major nerfs.
Assassin 1: My spell deals damage. Assassin 2: My spell also deals damage. Assassin 3: My spell deals damage too. Pyke: My spell deals damage AND AOE stuns for 4 seconds.
Kei143 (NA)
: Spread out your positioning next time. But Pyke's dash range and hit box is huge. So a nerf is good. Plus noble buff don't mean much when you are stunned and can't AA.
Great idea. I'll tell my champions not to bunch together. oh wait.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=IcyWard,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=faLZ21EY,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-12T19:40:01.446+0000) > > I do this too but rarely find that 3rd champion to go with the pair. Luck is still required to find that 3rd. A big mistake I see people doing early is something like: -buys 2 garens -buys 1 vayne -buys 1 lucian -ignores several other units because they are going for nobles -can't find more lucian -gets 2 more vaynes -gets to krugs with only vayne at 2-star -loses to krugs This player made the mistake of trying to settle on a specific comp way too early, and skip past all possibility of any other opener (such as wild or 2-star hodgepodge). Early on you need to buy just about everything from the shop every turn, focusing on pairs first, and early game units/synergies second. if you had the above scenario, and skipped past buying 1 Warwick sitting in 3 different shops on 3 different rounds, you basically passed up your chances at getting items from krugs for maybe 1 or 2 gold of interest. Yeah you can often get lucky and get triples without spreading out and buying everything early, but the higher percentage play is very often to ignore interest for the first round or two it is available, so that you can have more chances (yes it's a CHANCE... still rng, but more chances is better odds) at finding something you need to get through early game. Not saying you are making but this mistake, and later on misconceptions about drop rates and rerolling are the basis for a lot of the RNG complaints I have seen. Sure RNG can still technically screw you over, but the average game is very far from always playing with a big disadvantage. I say that knowing full well that a lot of games start with 0 items from minions, while your opponents start with guinsoos+shojin. Just accept that and move on, it doesn't win them the game. Just play the rest of the game better than they do. EDIT -- and oh my goodness sell your 2-cost unit after the first minion round so you can buy that double Nidalee please!
You never know what the slot machine is going to drop for you, so you can't prepare for what it rolls in the future. You don't know if that warwick is going to drop again in your next 2 rolls. Again, I frequently get stuck with pairs because a 3rd never drops. I often sell my starting 2-coin champion because I've learned that starters NEVER drop until far later in the game. I'm convinced the game has something in the algorithm that prevents you from rolling your starter in the slot machine before x rounds because this is always the case for me.
: getting 2 stars really isn't that hard when you look for pairs and only focus on getting them without worrying about what comp you are going to build yet...most people that are good do this without even rerolling and don't really care what champ it is that's getting 2 starred because they are better than any 1 star. Just use the 2 stars until you have your comp decided and ready to go and you can sell them if they don't fit or need to be replaced by someone better.
I do this too but rarely find that 3rd champion to go with the pair. Luck is still required to find that 3rd.
Rioter Comments
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: when you sell a champion it is reintroduced to the pool so when you sell that 2star vayne because you haven't gotten a vayne for 10 rounds and you get a vayne the next round it's because you added her to the pool 3stars are over rated few champions benefit from getting 3 starred look at what the rng is giving you then try to build around it don't go into a game thinking i want demon blademasters and wonder why you cuoldn't complete both synergies when all you had to have was 4 spatulas item rng is getting kinda fixed in PBE the AI is what makes some rounds amazing and others throws it's what makes the game fun every champion has 25% crit chance unless you want to build assaassins crits are meaningless if you build assassins you will feel the crits yes every game almost every build will be attempted the people that manage to complete them will tend to win
> [{quoted}](name=Pxerkza,realm=EUNE,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=orLAH7HH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-12T08:56:46.518+0000) > 3stars are over rated > few champions benefit from getting 3 starred No, an enormous stat buff to everything is a huge benefit. A 3 star Morgana can kill almost everything around her while a 2 star cannot, a 3 star Blitzcrank can one-shot the enemy's protected carry but a 2 star cannot (unless you're lucky enough to build a lot of spell damage on him), a 3 star Lulu heals, buffs, and knocks up enemies around 3 teammates instead of 2, etc. > [{quoted}](name=Pxerkza,realm=EUNE,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=orLAH7HH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-12T08:56:46.518+0000) > > look at what the rng is giving you then try to build around it I know that it's a bad idea to go into this game with a strategy, and instead go with what cards you're randomly dealt, but if you have bad luck then you're screwed in both cases. You can get two Vaynes at once early then never see a 3rd Vayne again the entire game (this happens to me very frequently) or just never get 3 of anything and get stuck with 1 star champions the whole match, which is impossible to win with. You never know what champions you'll get in the slot machine so you can't prepare or build around that, just build something and hope for the best.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
I'm more upset that he rolled 3 Akalis and didn't even take them. I can't get 3 Akalis in an entire match.
PekiCodex (EUW)
: Facts about TFT that are 100% fact
{{champion:60}} will always die just as she's about to transform. {{champion:53}} will grab the carry, then walk away and punch someone else. Your {{champion:150}} knocks enemies out of your {{champion:85}}'s ult. You can never have too many ninjas.
: Okay. I never said it's impossible. But the sheer rarity of it if you're even vaguely attempting to win is virtually impossible. This is "getting less than 10 CS as an ADC" levels of unlikely. Is it technically possible even if you're trying to win? Yes. Is it possible if you're actually trying to get at least one 2* and aren't caring which kind? Honestly, it's not. There are only so many champions possible and you'd have to somehow go the entire game without seeing three of any champion. There's just no way that works out in a way you can't pull a single 2* if you're just trying to get a 2*. Now, if you're absolutely fixated on one or two specific champions that a lot of people already have...Yeah, it's possible you won't get any. But if you're willing to adapt and are just going for any 2* it's stupidly easy to get at least one. There are 5 champions per reroll. You're not going to die before Krugs no matter how hard you fuck up because nobody has the damage by then, so that's a minimum of **35 different champions** that appear for free and two drafts. There are a total of 50 champions and you're going to see at least 55 champions total between shared drafts and your options to buy. There are a total of 9 t1 champions. This means you're almost certain to see 3 of one champ by the 4th round - The first pvp one. The only reason it's not *certain* is because of t2 champs becoming possible before then, if I remember correctly. If they don't, you're **absolutely certain** to see 3 of the same champion by then (2 of each t1 for a total of 18, then 2 more to make the 20 you've seen means you've had 2 champs that could be 2*'d **if RNG worked perfectly against you to make sure it took as long as possible**). Speaking of t2 champs, there are only 13 of them. This is completely covered at the start of the 2nd shared draft - again, if I'm remembering the rounds right. And all of this is the absolute latest round it'd be possible in. **Most** people are at or near a 2* by round 4. Stop obsessing over which specific champion you get and you're absolutely certain to be able to get a 2*.
I'm not obsessing over a specific champion, just the champions currently in my pool which tend to already have 2/3. Sometimes, that 3rd champion just never shows up. Do you abandon the champion you already have 2 of, or delete them and try for a new champion? How do you know you won't have the same bad luck acquiring 3 of that champion next? You don't. You never know because the slot machine is random. You can't get around that.
: Worst TfT Champion?
I like Elise but yeah, she's pretty garbo before she transforms, and usually dies before that too.
: Poker, in fact, is a highly skilled game.
You can also bluff and read your opponent's body language while betting in poker, but you can't do that in TFT.
Rioter Comments
: I look at the game like poker. There's a lot of randomness involved, but you can make smart decisions that help you out perform other players.
You can't bluff or read your opponent's body language in TFT. Remove all that from poker and it's whoever gets the best cards wins.
: Technically not impossible, but the odds of you never getting a single 2* if you're even vaguely attempting to are so astronomically low that it is, for all intents and purposes, impossible. You have higher odds of spontaneously mutating into a 2* champion yourself than you have of never rolling one, assuming you're even remotely coming close to anything but throwing.
How fortunate for you to have not yet encounter this situation. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it's impossible. Yes, I have been stuck with 1 star teams before, and lost all my interest trying to change that. It happens.
Erufailon (EUNE)
: Having low health is not necessarily a problem. You shouldn't have too low health, but I've won with 13 hp going up from last place. And I agree, wanting stuff is generally bad in this game, except IMHO at the moment there is an OP combo and pushing that seems to win me games unless I get really unlucky, but generally wanting stuff is bad. If you could win by wanting stuff and there would be less RNG and you could get it, that's how it would become pretty much a non-game, because you could just build the best combo every time and everyone would build the same combo all the time. The whole game mode is about adapting to and managing RNG. Being better at adapting wins games. Trying to fight RNG loses them. The only complaint I agree with is item drops. Those should be guaranteed instead of some people getting an item from every neutral monster (so multiple items in 1 round), while others getting none at all.
If the game were balanced properly, then there wouldn't be a best combo. Okay, so the game is about adapting to RNG. How do you adapt if you can't upgrade any of your champions? The champions you get in the slot machine are RNG, so what should you do to win if you can't upgrade to 2 stars with any of them?
AuronRoo (NA)
: Lets Talk About the Busted Assassins
I haven't had much problem with assassins, probably because I like to build up Brawler teams. It's very easy to fit 2 brawlers into a team because there are 5 of them, and their high HP from brawler bonus makes those crits not so critical. Just have them guard your ranged and damage champs and assassins won't be much of an issue. If you run into an all assassin team, grab Blitzcrank. He'll save his grab until one of them appears and really mess their day up. {{champion:53}}
: Raise Elise's base stats from lowest in the game to 2nd lowest and then she'd be less ass
She's okay with a RFC and some damage items, because she gets free lifesteal when she transforms, but yeah she's underwhelming compared to other champs with the same items.
: I would venture to say it is impossible to not get rank 2 champions if you have half of a brain cell. Losing early game doesn't matter. If you can't get at least tier 2 champions (that aren't legendary) by the end game you don't know what you are doing at all.
{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} Improbable, but not impossible. Problem is, by the time you reach 50 gold and are racking in that +5 interest, you've already lost almost half your health if you've been stuck with 1 star champions that whole time. Meanwhile luckier players have also hit 50 gold around the same time but haven't lost much or any health in the process, giving them a significant edge on top of their already upgraded team to build on.
Ratpie (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=IcyWard,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=4vvNPR2Y,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T23:15:02.063+0000) > > It doesn't matter what strategy you use: if you can't get the items/champions you need you're going to lose. I've never seen anyone win with a team of 1 star champs. I have never had a game where I was all 1 star champs. And they are addressing the no item thing already, but I would like to see them even it out even more. I think the items are a problem, I don't think the random champs are. You can put up at least a decent team almost every round in this if you farm out right.
> [{quoted}](name=Ratpie,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=4vvNPR2Y,comment-id=00000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T23:36:52.982+0000) > > I have never had a game where I was all 1 star champs. How fortunate for you.
: That's why you don't rely on any one champion. You are bad at the mode if you are relying on the luck of the draw to get specific champions. Fill up your pool with a random assortment of champions in the early game because you get full price back when you sell. Whatever you draw the most of is likely what people aren't grabbing so you just make a comp around that. Get 50 gold economy and then reroll like a madman to find exactly what you are looking for. I am in the top 3 almost every single game by doing this.
But you are still relying on luck of the draw. You need 3 of a kind to upgrade, so what do you do if you can't get 3 of a kind of any of the champs in your pool? You cannot control what champions you get in the slot machine. Period. Yes, you can still do things to reduce/increase your chances of getting 3 of a kind, but they are still chances. To prove my point, please try to win a match with only 1 star heroes sometime. You'll see that it's impossible due to the enormous stat differences.
Ratpie (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=IcyWard,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=4vvNPR2Y,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-07-06T22:41:03.290+0000) > > I consistently alternate between 1st and 8th place. What does that make me? If I were bad at the game, I should be getting bottom 3 consistently. > > The main difference being when I get stuff I want vs when I get nothing. You are probably using a make or break strategy, high risk high reward. When I see this it is usually banking and getting really low but stocking well, which means you win, or you get beat bad cause you are so low health when you finally make the move.
It doesn't matter what strategy you use: if you can't get the items/champions you need you're going to lose. I've never seen anyone win with a team of 1 star champs.
: Your problem is that you want stuff. You should never want anything. Just take what is available and use it. If someone else is already going nobles, you aren't going to get all the nobles so don't even try. You have to look at what other people are building and use something else only getting what they have to keep it on standby to screw them over so they can't get their tier 3 champions.
So.. your strategy is to not have a strategy and rely on the luck of the draw you get? Got it. Also you can go an entire game without seeing a single Kayle, Gnar, Aatrox, etc even if no one is building them.
Ratpie (NA)
: I thought it was that random at first, but the more I played its more about patterns of play and cost-benefit decisions that makes the difference. Do you get some absolutely crappy rounds? sure. But if it was that random then there wouldn't be people who consistently win or get in the top 4.
I consistently alternate between 1st and 8th place. What does that make me? If I were bad at the game, I should be getting bottom 3 consistently. The main difference being when I get stuff I want vs when I get nothing.
Zelnick (NA)
: Too much randomness makes tft pointless.
This is autochess games in a nutshell. They're gambling games and basically elaborate slot machines (5 slots, 2g to reroll, 3 of a kind). But TFT is still better than Dota Autochess thanks to the carousel and item variety.
: That's why you generally stick to 1-3 coin champs. More frequency early game, more reliably T3, and better combos. Chasing 5 Coins will starve you of coins, and generally, even if you take 4 or 5, it's to fill a team condition, not to make them your 3 star (Gnar) You'll also find you have a LOT more coins if you don't spend them unless absolutely necessary to open a character slot per round.
Starting champs are only 2 coin and yet they have a bad habit of never showing up in the slot machine even late game.
: It's not all about getting tier 3 champions. I beat someone with 4 tier 3 champions while having 0 myself in my last game. This was because I had higher cost champions, more synergies, and more champions through leveling up and getting a force of nature.
> [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=1s9QceTG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-06T19:20:01.573+0000) > > It's not all about getting tier 3 champions. I beat someone with 4 tier 3 champions while having 0 myself in my last game. This was because I had higher cost champions, more synergies, and more champions through leveling up and getting a force of nature. You're right but having a 3 star you need helps A LOT. Having a 3 star Blitzcrank vs a 2 or 1 star is going to determine whether or not you one-shot their Draven, for example. Games when stuff I want drops - guaranteed top 3. Games when my comp doesn't work out: 4 - 6 Games when I get screwed by RNG and get nothing I want: 7 - 8
Grillin (NA)
: Never Get Three-Star Units
That feeling when the Shen or Elise you started with doesn't get upgraded because they never drop in the slot machine. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
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