Moody P (NA)
: Can hypercarries actually have bad early games now
I just completely shut down a Top TF as Morg jung, only to have him 1v5 my team after about 27 minutes. As soon as he got Guinsoo's he was 1v5ing. People think Neeko needed nerfed for her W. It's not like TF doesn't have larger AD scaling, Larger Attack speed scaling, more mobility, more spammable aoes, Mana sustain, and a MUCH larger proccing on hit skill..... AD TF was shredding a Gnar with {{item:3075}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3110}} equipped.
hotarse (NA)
: Do you think league is saving you from your life? I guarantee it's the other way around, it will destroy it.
lmfao. No. My wife is well aware of what League does. She doesn't like being in the room when a team is hyper throwing. But.... we have some ideas for real life MMOs or simulators that might take its place some day. We're thinking about starting a commercial mushroom farm! That hires people with mental disabilities. (The only people businesses around here who are required by law to hire disabilities..... hire people with hearing disabilities.) My life is perfectly happy o.O I Own Everything. no Debt. $240k house. etc.
: Uninstall time again
Dude. Dude. I played "Fill" through Positional Ranking on this account. It gave me Silver II on 3 roles, Bronze I on two roles. The result was Riot combined them and gave me a Rank of Silver II but an MMR of BI. For the last 40 + games I have maintained over a 70% win rate..... and get a whopping 9-15 LP per game (most were 9-10, I'm just starting to get back up to 15. But you know something? I got demoted once. When I had 4 wins and 2 losses. The 2 losses were enough to wipe out 4 wins. I'm still managing to climb! Still managing to win at about a 70% recent win rate.
hotarse (NA)
: Someone needs to save you from League of Legends.
Well..... I'm married, have a son with Autism, work 40-56 hours a week, and have 4 banned accounts. Kind of hard.....
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OBrYqEyy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-20T02:49:20.730+0000) > > You failed to read. This is Top lane. Not Support. > > Also, she's been nerfed into the reasonable ground recently. 24-12% off her plant damage, and Jax is one of her immediate counters. you fail realize she does damage that is what she does, she does aoe/dot damage and the items she gets amplifies her damage by a ton . it dont matter top,jungle,mid support zyra has always had really high base damages but scaling isnt ideal
Her skill base damage and scaling is actually one of the mid-range. What makes her successful is the fact her plants extend her range. If you can kill her plants in .5 seconds, she generally is way too immobile and dies a lot when playing a Liandry's build. You don't need her DoT to be "amplified" when you run DH/Mobility. Her base damage is actually laughable compared to other mages.
: Personal opinion: season 9 has become the hardest one to carry and win games in
Sorry....... but I hard carry as Nami support. Your post is Biased towards how YOU play her. Learn to cast her entire kit in .5 seconds, and you'll do better as Nami.
: DH sounds awful because your CC and slows will guarantee Comet hits, which deal more than double the damage of DH on a WAY shorter cooldown. Unless you get an absurd amount of stacks it will strictly be a worse option. Sure, when you get a last hit on somebody getting a second one will be faster, but I would never count on that.
Zyra can deal 60% of a target's HP in one combo. I usually get 24-50 stacks, depending on how early I stack Relentless Hunter. This game I had 38 Stacks. Comet does not do NEAR the damage DH does, because DH can repeat Electrocute like damage every 1.5 seconds, if you use it right, and does more per hit damage. Try to avoid 340 added on damage on top of a burst kit. Comet also requires you to either summon really weak plants on Zyra, or to get a Rylai's...... which don't allow this build. P.S. Are you even looking at the damage progressions on this game? I outdamaged a Jinx who could 3 shot by 15k. As. A Top. With no Teleport.
: no one underestimates Zyra's damage. we all know its broken for a champ who use to be a mid lane mage forced into the support role kinda like brand.
You failed to read. This is Top lane. Not Support. Also, she's been nerfed into the reasonable ground recently. 24-12% off her plant damage, and Jax is one of her immediate counters.
Rioter Comments
: My thoughts on 9.6 removing double tear build & Riot lessening item diversity overall
Here's the part of PBE that REALLY concerns me: Kayn in blue form getting HALF the cooldown on his Shadow Step? WTF? At 11 Base Cooldown he will LITERALLY be able to spam wall walk, and be uncatchable. And in a game with 1 shot squishies he is so good at deleting...... he will literally be able to go on 10-20 kill killing sprees just URFing around the map.
: About Morgana rework
P.S. I'll just leave this here.... https://i.imgur.com/Y3s1BHM.png[/img] (Too bad I only get 13 LP for a 162/148 Record.....)
: > and change the MS on her ult to a slow. https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Morgana > Soul Shackles > Active: After a 0.5-second delay, Morgana latches chains of energy onto nearby enemy champions, dealing magic damage. > Magic Damage: 150 / 225 / 300 (+ 70% AP) > The tethers last 3 seconds, granting true sight of affected enemies and **slowing them by 20%**. Additionally, Morgana gains bonus movement speed towards tethered enemies. > Bonus Movement Speed: 5 / 30 / 55% > When the tethers end, targets who did not leave the tether range are stunned for 1.5 seconds and dealt the same magic damage again. Morgana's Ult both slows the enemy and gives her movement speed toward them. Riot did not remove the slow on Morgana's Ult when they added the speed boost. Also, if they made the Morgana's W apply the "grounded" status they would probably have to remove the extra damage they just added to her W which would make Morgana's wave-clear worse. Finally, Morgana's passive used to just give her straight-up Spell Vamp (which would let her use her W to heal up off of minions). However, that gave Morgana too much sustain so they nerfed her passive so that she could use her abilities to heal off of minions anymore. Overall, Morgana in the same place as Janna, Nasus, Rammus, etc. where they may not have the most exciting kit but they manage to win a game just fine if played correctly.
The didn't add extra damage to her W per say. They actually reduced the base by 33%. The change just increased the RANGE of the damage, lower on the minimum end, and higher on the high end.
: Not to mention the OP's suggested changes would instantly make Morg more pick ban than she is currently. Like, 5-10% damage reduction per champ shackled is nuts if you consider adding Aftershock on top of it, she could basically flash R in, land a Q, proc aftershock, and not have to use Zhonyas. W having the ability to ground would basically kill anything with mobility botlane (as if Cass and Singed having it wasn't enough), and adding sustain back on regular targets (practically made her able to stay in lane 24/7 until it got removed on that aspect)
Some nuance to conflict with your premise (not saying aftershock/Q isn't a thing, btw) The BEST way to use Morg is to actually delay Q until R is almost over. Most absolute kills or team kills require the extra CC duration. So, Aftershocking to engage would limit her engagement time and make her vulnerable after. That's when she most often gets bursted.
: Dude you're letting your personal experiences shape your view of an entire group of people. Toxic players can stop being toxic, not all of them are in as extreme situations as yours. If you fake being honorable, then it becomes a habit, and then you just act that way by default, then wouldn't that be being honorable? Part of being honorable is being able to stop yourself from losing your composure and going off on everyone due to your frustrations.
I care nothing about personal experience. I simply use it to illustrate commonality. And no. There's a simple ingredient missing. Faking = doing it for the purpose of exploitation. It's trying to game the system. Doing something for that purpose, does not lead to doing it by default. You actually have to WANT to be a better person, and most of us are adults who more or less are inflexible in changing those tendencies. Teenage players have some wiggle room in trying to adjust their personality. Adults have a much lesser range of adaptation. I WANT to be nice. But when you've played over 13,000 games since you joined the game, there's simply no way for you not to be "Toxic" some of the time. You know how to win. Some of your teammates don't. Some intentionally won't. You are going to react a fraction of the time. Now..... there's another consideration: Competitiveness. Competitiveness is the real disease. Toxicity is a symptom. But.... Solving it is a paradox: How do you accelerate progress, human advancement, without competitiveness, but at the same time, "just let go of it, when it's just a game?" To most of us who are "Toxic," Ranked isn't just a game. It's a representation that progress is being made within the game, and that we somehow haven't wasted hundreds if not thousand of hours playing a game for no reward. We see it as prestige to advance and teach other players, something they won't accept without the rank as a "resume" to prove you know what you're talking about. Ofc, many players don't have these incentives. They still see it as "just a game," which is further exacerbated by the fact many don't have bought champions/skins and thus no monetary attachment. What this boils down to: 1) Inability to change behavior patterns as a core competency in humans. 2) 4 Quadrants of player attachment which creates stress: Player type 1: Competitive, Monetary Attachment: High susceptibility for toxicity. Player type 2: Competitive, but no monetary attachment: VERY high susceptibility to toxicity. (Cares less about the account) Player type 3: Noncompetitve, Monetary attachment: Likely the least toxic players, but also the most prone to make macro game mistakes, because their learning curves/responses are not driven by competitiveness. Targets of all other three player quadrants. Player type 4: Noncompetitive, No monetary attachment. Less toxic than competitive players, but more toxic than those with monetary attachments.
Yenn (NA)
: Did Riot literally just hide positional MMR from us and not actually change anything?
Do you ever read other threads. Positional Matchmaking is gone. HOWEVER: They did Average out your MMR, and apply it to your entire account. If you had 2 Bronze I ranks and 3 Silver II ranks, you will rank as a Silver II, but have the MMR closer to a BI.
SirThe0 (NA)
: ***
Holy crap you're toxic. I don't even claim to be "reformed" and I keep my chats under 15-20 lines, because I'd rather try to win.... and reduce the chance of punishment. You claim you're reformed? What a joke lol.
: He's on about how being toxic isn't his fault, he posted his chatlogs randomly and started spewing nonsense on every reply to the thread, relevant to his plight or not. As an ex-toxic, this is just a pitiful self-defense that people use to excuse their flame and toxicity - trying to say how "if riot doesn't change for me, i'm not coming back" and "wow so insensitive of riot to do their job i fucking tried to kill myself" in the other reply to the thread. tbh pay him no mind. he can rant to nothing if he wants.
Sorry.... there is no such thing as an Ex Toxic, and the very fact you try to dictate someone else's opinions, message, and interpret it for others proves it. The fact you even followed it up with instructions suggests you are a narcissist.
: I think it's time for an honor progress bar. (or some sort of progress indicator)
Speaking as a fellow Toxic: 1) It does NOT take a long time to increase honor levels UNLESS you are still pervasively toxic. Riot doesn't just track single instances; they track the rate of reports against you. If you are a repeat offender whose getting reported a lot while trying to build Honor up, your rate of recovery will be slower. You may view your behavior as "better by comparison" but Riot uses no such middle metrics. 1b) I'm sorry. I've been perma banned 4 times. What I fear more than low honor/ is losing another account. They are expensive things to lose. Compared to honor being free. So no. I do not and will not ever feel "I have nothing to lose." If you spent any money, you'd feel the same. 2) I'm sorry but this is just baloney. People do not just become courteous/confident/outgoing because they will it. If someone turns toxic, there's usually a catalyst. In my specific circumstances: I am probably Ausberger's, and I evaluate every move my teammates make, and I see it all. Working at a Factory, I come home with Sensitive Ears. that hear everything my wife and autistic son are doing. It never fails: I hear literally every move she makes and it distracts from my focus on the game. That irritates me. What's the solution? Lose the Factory Job? Get rid of my family? Become a player tutor for those who throw every game they play? Sorry, but none of those problems are getting fixed any time soon. Your post makes me think you were punished not too long ago, and that you think it's been long enough for a reform, but instead this is your petition to put on an act of reform. People generally do not word this discussion the way you are, when they are discussing it from a charitable perspective. They word it this way when they are selling something. I will never believe someone who says "Take it from someone who WAS toxic." 3) The revert of positional ranking is going to have a negative long lasting impact on the NA community size and interest FAR greater than those who were upset with positional ranking. Anyone who played Fill is basically being punished and told to grind another 200-300 games just to balance out their MMR after the combine. People who weren't playing fill still are seeing lower LP than they were before it was removed. 3b) Players are not always right, and games who succumb to them often dramatically lower their lifespans. Be careful what you compliment.
: > [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MjEVnL8j,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-18T07:23:54.326+0000) > > Rank system should be reworked. > > Elo works only if you have preset teams that done change for a season and all players play to win and there are no smurfs. None of those happen in rank. > > So it should be you gain LP but never lose LP. > > Wins give you X LP +/- the difference of the average of the teams difference. > Losses give you nothing but do not take away LP ether. > > > Teams can not have more than average difference +/- 100 > > Players on a team can not have more then average difference +/- 50 form a team mate. > > This way the more you play the higher on the ladder you get but if you suck you gain nothing so winners climb faster and have bigger totals so will be higher on the ladder. problem with this is halfway through the season, somebody starting ranked for the first time would be at 0 and others would be at maybe 500-1000 lp? big loophole in your suggestion
How do you think I feed with a 65-70% Win rate as Support/Mid/Jungle, being Silver II almost Gold, and the system where I climbed having "Fill" as an option.... only to have all those ranks combined into a single rank, and my effective MMR dropping from Silver II/I to Bronze I, because my Bot/Top win rate wasn't as good as the others? I played 300 games on "Fill." just to get this account to Silver II from Bronze III. Now I have to do it over again, because my win LP is 9-13 LP and my loss LP is -23-21. I'm one of the only players I've eve heard of so far that has a 52% overall win rate, 65-70% in 3 roles, who is losing over double what they are gaining.
: >10 deaths does not always mean less XP (There's XP catchup mechanics, and death penal etc On how many actual games does an ADC with 10 deaths have the same level or the same farn that an ADC that hasn't died once? You know exactly that it's what happens in most of your games and yet you are so damm arrogant to keep talking about everything else without admitting that your "Intelligent Question" is based on a false premise. On real games dying 10 times matters, it impacts the pace of your game, the farm the level and therebefore the dps potencial of that ADC, and if you think otherwise you are fooling yourself.
It actually happens often. Feeding support, or a roaming adc getting kills elsewhere. And the point is, the XP gap is so minimal due to catch up XP, that it doesn't exist that much. Also, some Adcs can clear waves and die. Sivir, for example, can be the 10/10 and a Jinx be the 10/10, and the Sivir still has a good chance of winning, because her farm game went online earlier.
: that's completely and utterly irrelevant to what I commented.
You basically said, "don't fight them when you can't win." I know you said, "Enlist your team" etc, but what you really said was the prior, because that simply is not a feature of Solo/duo Queue in most instances.
: >If I had just single roled, this account would easily be Plat right now. I was 70% win rate for the first 150 games. You sure about this? Alright, let's do some math! :D 70% wr in your first 150 games = 105 wins. 52% wr in your total 314 games = 163 wins. This means that after your first 150 games, you only won 58 games all the way to 314 total games = 35% winrate in 166 games. You're saying you had 70% winrate in first 150 games. _Which means_ you had 35% in the following 166. And somehow this is never mentioned in one the reasons of not climbing? :thinking:
If you had looked at the account before the ranked merge, You would have seen a 39% top rank and a 36% adc rank. I also started getting either heavier smurfs than me in my games, or 4 man int teams, or if I was top and didn't have Teleport, I lost agency over the games. In other words: Yes. The second 150 was loss-ridden. But it was role specific losses, and my main role ranks began getting impeded by twitch.tv smurfs from Challenger/Masters/Grandmasters (had Ralifaz, Glacierr, for example). Not enough to make me go anywhere near negative on main roles, but enough to drop the 70% I was getting. I kept getting friggin Bot in the second half. No one wanted to adc, and half my supports just destroyed CS, and the junglers just afk farmed until 22+ minutes. (It's amazing how little your support and jung exist in low elo if it's not you), I wasn't feeding games, but wasn't getting the kills I need either. As I said..... I'm a bad adc. I don't know how to win the lane with an afk jungler/support. I can carry when they DO, but I can't when they don't. Mid/Support ended Positional in Silver II with 63-68% win rates. (Low games on mid though since hard to get Fill mid games) Jungle ended 65%.
: Many things don't have much counterplay as or right before they're happening, but their counterplay is leading up to it. For example, there's little you can do in a 1v1 vs an assassin as an ADC, there's not a lot of immediate counterplay to a malphite ult (barring high CD spells), you can't defend 3v5 against a team with baron, etc. Does that mean these things necessarily deserve immediate counterplay? No. Their counterplay happens ahead of time. You need to position properly around a malphite, you need to position properly and not overextend as an ADC, and you need to teamfight properly around baron. The same kind of thing is present with ADCs. In order for an ADC to get 10/0 something has to have happened. 1. Bot lane is basically inting 2. No one has ever done anything to them in teamfights or in laning phase. If you start seeing a carry get fed, it's a good idea to head down there with 4 people and shut them down during laning phase, prioritize them with everything you have in team fights, TP gank early to create a lead, try to catch them out so they can't be protected, etc. Or in other words, a large part of League of Legends is preventing situations in which there is little to nothing for you to do.
You do realize that "Abstinence" only works for so long. Eventually, you do have to defend your turrets..... take objectives... and by playing the abstinence game forever, you basically give them free CS. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you're right. But I'm pointing out the PROBLEM with that being right. Which is why adc is a contention point.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0JbI0gl,comment-id=00080002000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-18T14:49:20.510+0000) > > Here's why my opinion varies: I don't just play Zyra Support. I don't need to "Poke" nearly as much as I secure kills. > > -If I'm jungling, my goal is to kill in almost every engagement. > -If I'm top, My goal is to kill in 3 rotations of poke, and DH/Electrocute secures that more often. > -If I'm Bot, similar to Support, but that requires some skills wasted on minions, so more of my champ interaction is to "Kill." I let the Support do most of the poking here. > -If I'm mid, like top, my goal is to kill every 3 rotations. DH/Electrocute time well for this and champs don't rotate out or recall when they have 40-60% HP, but will recall if you proc a comet, and drop them to 30%, hoping for skills to kill the rest. > > Your imgur are stat insignificant builds...... with 40 games. The 10% DH have Taste of Blood, and Relentless Hunter, and Celerity, not Absolute Focus or Scorch. Ravenous Hunter is almost worthless on Zyra, given her plants don't leech to her. Taste is enough for heals, and has easier requirements. > Relentless Hunter Pairs well with Celerity, making the DH build easily push 530-589 move speed. > > P.S. Zyra 94% is what? 11 games? I was 90% Morgana 50 game into this season - on two accounts. You can theorize all you want, but the only relevant question really is if you're being able to climb in high elo with it. That's when everyone is -usually- playing consistently well but small things can make the difference, therefore seeing how viable things are. I'm just trying to give you advice. You have [314 games](https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Illabethe) this season in Bronze 1 - Silver 4 average. At that MMR you can build any way you want, it doesn't mean it's good, or that it will work to climb against more dedicated/skilled players. Good luck!
You do realize this account has the unfortunate stigma of being a "Fill" account, where I played all roles? That's why so little climb for so many games. Not only was I needing 5 times as many games to climb 1 tier, when they took away positional ranking, they averaged MMR between all 5 roles. I only got Support/Jungle for most of my games, and didn't get to climb on Top/Adc enough. So when they ended, they averaged all my MMR's and somehow came up with 60-70% win rates in Silver II = an MMR of Bronze I. I literally have gotten 9-13 LP a win and 23-21 LP a loss since they merged the roles. If I had just single roled, this account would easily be Plat right now. I was 70% win rate for the first 150 games. How would you like winning 12 in a row, and still be getting 13 a win, and losing 3 games and getting a demotion..... simply because Riot removed a rank system they created?
: >A 10/0 adc does the same damage as a 10/10 adc. The 10/10 adc has been dead 10 times which means that he has gotten less xp so he'll be down in levels and of course he will have less cs and total gold than the 10/0 adc which means that he's going to be ahead in items compared to the 10/10 adc. So no, both dont deal the same dmg and if what you were trying to say is that adcs dont get punished for being behind I think you are playing other game.
10 deaths does not always mean less XP (There's XP catchup mechanics, and death penalties are not actually punishing people a lot; there's a reason Talons are often 25/10). In good play, both adcs have kills/deaths. And an adc like Vayne can be destroyed all lane and still come back to bite an entire team..... It depends on the Adc, how it affected their farm. And as I said in another reply: Normally, it's actually the adcs own team which creates differences in adc power, not the adcs themselves, or their opponent. Supports steal or outright destroy lane CS( as in no one gets it), and post lane, everyone gets greedy and wave clears ahead of the adc in every lane, so it's pretty hard for her to farm at that point. Sometimes the winner of a 1v1 adc trade is just who has the better processing power/reaction times, btw.... but at that point..... the fight is decided in literally 1.5 seconds. Which ..... says a lot, because an adc has the fastest kit to deal with an adc, and if they die that fast, so do their teammates.... 2 days ago, I carried a Jinx to a 24/3 game, where she did 43k damage vs the opponent team champs doing an average of 10-12k in the same time. By level 6-7, we were 2-3 shotting everyone. And, I never had to recall as I had my good ole ...{{item:3003}}
: Yeah see the point is to stop them *before* they’re 10/0.
Here's an intelligent Question: How do you stop an adc? A 10/0 adc does the same damage as a 10/10 adc. Killing doesn't do it, and deaths aren't nearly as punishing as they should. CS? Ironically, Allies, not enemies, are better at depriving adcs of CS. A Csing support, or post lane wave clears by teams do more do damage adc CS climbing than any enemy factors. What you're REALLY saying is, "Hope and pray the adc has a team who steals her CS."
: Hot take: "high damage" is just an excuse for poor macro and bad play.
The Purest answer: Some are. Some aren't. I'd love for someone backing this argument to try to defend Lee Sin's Q. Lee Sin in a nutshell: Can't engage him because he stays 1300 range from you waiting for a Q opportunity. Can't survive him engaging YOU, because the second part of his Q does increased damage based on missing HP, which he caused in large amounts by his first Q. If Lee Sin misses a Q, not punished because he's too far away. If Lee Sin is being chased, any good Lee Sin will automatically be able to hit Q, and almost erase his target. This mechanic didn't used to exist, until Season 9's rework of his Q. it used to be that you could CC him when he Q'd to you, and disrupt his W/E. Now you're lucky if you survive that long. --------------------------- Adc: I half agree with existing comments. An adc has to have done something to be able to 3 shot. However...... this isn't always true..... Sivir and Jinx or Kog Ma or Twitch can all do the Instant erase damage without being fed, simply because they are powerfarmers with insanely scaling damage. Ever try to get within 1000 range of a Kog ma right now once he has a Guinsoo's? He will 100-10% you in the first 1 second, and when you turn around to try to escape, he will R you twice for the remainder. Go watch some pros play against Kog Ma. I've seen WillyP, the best Udyr in the game..... get erased by an unfed, feeding Kog Ma, without even being that close to him. --------------------------- Mages: Yes. Generally, if they do a ton of damage, your team screwed up. --------------------------- Nasus: Buffed infinite scaling is only dangerous when it is a Pro playing it. You won't see a true reflection of his strength when ran by players who make poor or even "okay" macro decisions. The OP damage is there. But it isn't always expressed. --------------------------- Shadow Kayn: He generally wins or loses in champ select. Tank team..... he'll just go red instead. If Squishy team, he has no counterplay. If you have a mixed team, you have a chance, but he will still 1 shot some. Try playing Nami vs a Blue Kayn. He will erase her even if he's unfed, and she's building tanky, and he moves so fast through walls many times it's unavoidable. ------------------------- Leblanc; depends on the mobility of her opponents. If the other team has a Miss Fortune, she will completely dominate the game. -------------------------- Miss Fortune: Dunno how you can justify her Kit. As a Mage, or Adc, E is near spammable, and controls every champ in the game but Master Yi. R can get up to 8700 damage per cast. That's not OP damage? Shredding 4-5 people in 2 seconds? Most of the times it's used, there really aren't many options for the opponents, and if the opponents avoid "everything" to avoid her R, she just runs the game in other ways. ------------------------- AP Shyvana: I play it and I KNOW it's OP.
: Learn math. minimum wr for 94% after rounding is 93.5% which means he lost 6.5% of the games. For that to be possible he need to play at least 100/6.5>15, so 16 games. Its not hard math. Just don't be lazy when you try to insult someone like that. It just weakens your agument.
How does you doing a proof that says he won 15/16 weaken any argument? The win rate wasn't part of any actual argument. it was part of his sensationalism in his post which he attempted to use to bolster his argument. Any comment about win rate had soley to do with the fact it's a low game sample size. I was literally 100% win rate Morgana Season 7, in 42 games. Problem was...... I wasn't maining her. She was one of 23 champs I played. This season I only lost ONCE on Morgana prior to 48 games.
DaRkSkyX (EUW)
: Didn't she get a nerf on her base damage for her plants?
HUGE nerf. 24-12%, depending on level. She hasn't got any buffs. The Win rate debate is being purely driven by adjustments to player preferences, and other champs being adjusted.
: If you think that pickrate is **irrelevant** I have nothing to talk with you because it's not worth the time. Have a good day.
And therein lies the period at the end of a very long harassment. People do not always pick what is right and there is an extreme lag in people discovering new meta in League. It doesn't just happen overnight when you get a patch. Only about 60% of new Metas are PBE tested and come on board as new content/adjustments. About 40% come as people playing with old items, and suddenly realizing a synergy exists they didn't observe before. Eventually some tournament player whips out that old item set, after it got them to tournament level, and shows tremendous play. THEN it becomes meta. A blunter/more forceful way to say this: Many are Sheep. Few are Shepherds. Sheep don't dictate what is good.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0JbI0gl,comment-id=000800020000,timestamp=2019-03-18T11:03:07.762+0000) > > Comet is NOT best on Zyra. For one thing, {{item:3116}} builds are generally actually only situational, and not always the right choice on Zyra. Second, Plants die in a half second to a lot of team compositions, meaning no reprocs. > > Furthermore, Comet is up front damage, whereas Electrocute and DH are tail end damage. Which kind of damage do players respond to and make decisions to get out on? Oh right. They get out and survive far more when the damage is up front. Electrocute/DH always are surprise damage people aren't exactly expecting, especially late game. > > P.S. Comet has a lower win rate than both. > > Look. I know people love Liandry's/Rylai's on Zyra, but I've compared it to other builds. There is NO comparison between what you can do with a mobility build with CDR and a Rylai's/Liandry's build. A Zyra with almost 600 move speed is a menace. A Zyra with 389 Move speed is a target. The only time Zyra should be building Rylai's/Liandry's is vs tanks who she has a lead on. (lead meaning Void staff). > > The builds are literally so different. 40% kill participation Rylai's, or 70% Kill participation Move speed. 20% CDR or 40% Capped CDR. Diamond III Zyra main here with 94% winratio in S9 so far with her. ~2M mastery in a couple accounts. I've tried all possible runes. Comet is the best rune on Zyra in majority of cases. Electrocute helps burst squishies better which can be nice, but you will lose harass, AOE and sustained dmg and not take advantage of her DoT to refresh Comet. You do **not** need Rylai's at all for it to outperform the rest, except perhaps the situational stomp where DH will likely be a Winmore rune. DH is too nerfed. op.gg is [hilariously misleading](https://imgur.com/a/EsU7qLD). 2 minor runes don't change a winrate from 58% to 33%. The 30-40 games that it takes as representation is not nearly enough data. They might all be from the same person. Smurfs that play in lower elo tend to use unconventional runes for fun / snowball (DH) since they know they will win anyway. If a Diamond plays 10 games on their Bronze/Silver account rushing Infinity Edge in Zyra and wins 90%, it doesn't mean it's a good item for her.
Here's why my opinion varies: I don't just play Zyra Support. I don't need to "Poke" nearly as much as I secure kills. -If I'm jungling, my goal is to kill in almost every engagement. -If I'm top, My goal is to kill in 3 rotations of poke, and DH/Electrocute secures that more often. -If I'm Bot, similar to Support, but that requires some skills wasted on minions, so more of my champ interaction is to "Kill." I let the Support do most of the poking here. -If I'm mid, like top, my goal is to kill every 3 rotations. DH/Electrocute time well for this and champs don't rotate out or recall when they have 40-60% HP, but will recall if you proc a comet, and drop them to 30%, hoping for skills to kill the rest. Your imgur are stat insignificant builds...... with 40 games. The 10% DH have Taste of Blood, and Relentless Hunter, and Celerity, not Absolute Focus or Scorch. Ravenous Hunter is almost worthless on Zyra, given her plants don't leech to her. Taste is enough for heals, and has easier requirements. Relentless Hunter Pairs well with Celerity, making the DH build easily push 530-589 move speed. P.S. Zyra 94% is what? 11 games? I was 90% Morgana 50 game into this season - on two accounts.
: I think that you are the one that should look closer. Comet is the most popular by far rune and it's true that it has worse winrate, fine and worth to mention that the most popular runes always have their wr lower for the boobs using it but it's okay, lets say that most Zyra players and dumb and rather play with Comet when DH is better. However why dont you say that Electrocute has higher pickrate AND winrate than DH on Zyra ? By every single metric Electrocute beats DH on her and you know why? Because DH is just terrible.
You try to tout Statistics in my face and then try to say something completely irrelevant to statistics to defy statistics, like that a lower win rate matters MORE ........ because "Insert logic defying exceptions here." Don't try to argue both statistics and then sham them up. Pick one side of the fence or the other. Electrocute does NOT have a higher win rate, and it's only a marginally higher pick rate. And Electrocute does NOT beat DH in damage metrics outright. Electrocute does well early game. But DH does better in either a snowball, or a mid/long game. There are very few champs who can just proc DH each time they combo. Zyra is one of them. I've actually had 58 stacks in 42 minutes before. My MINIMUM stacks is 23 per game.
: How on earth is that being tied????? Aerys has 48% pickrate and DH 10%, that's almost 1/5 the pickrate and the same winrate, Aerys is clearly superior if you know how to read stadistics.
Because the metric that matters is Win rate, not Pick rate. Pick rate is irrelevant to ANY argument about superior effectiveness, except as a backup statistic to prove something has statistical significance. 10% is large enough to have statistical Significance. A .7% Pick of Glacial Augment is not.
: Both Teemo Ana Zyra have a 10% pickrate on DH, it's far from being their most used runes. However, you are right for Shyvanna, she has a 50% pickrate on DH that I assume is the amount of ppl that play her AP.
If you bothered to look at Zyra, Comet has a much lower win rate even though it's pick #1. The reason people are picking comet is they believe every mage needs Manaflow Band. I almost NEVER take Manaflow Band on Zyra. I don't need it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0JbI0gl,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-03-18T00:54:19.750+0000) > > {{champion:143}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:17}} All currently main DH.... Only bad zyra/teemo players run dark harvest after the nerfs. Comet is best of Zyra.
Comet is NOT best on Zyra. For one thing, {{item:3116}} builds are generally actually only situational, and not always the right choice on Zyra. Second, Plants die in a half second to a lot of team compositions, meaning no reprocs. Furthermore, Comet is up front damage, whereas Electrocute and DH are tail end damage. Which kind of damage do players respond to and make decisions to get out on? Oh right. They get out and survive far more when the damage is up front. Electrocute/DH always are surprise damage people aren't exactly expecting, especially late game. P.S. Comet has a lower win rate than both. Look. I know people love Liandry's/Rylai's on Zyra, but I've compared it to other builds. There is NO comparison between what you can do with a mobility build with CDR and a Rylai's/Liandry's build. A Zyra with almost 600 move speed is a menace. A Zyra with 389 Move speed is a target. The only time Zyra should be building Rylai's/Liandry's is vs tanks who she has a lead on. (lead meaning Void staff). The builds are literally so different. 40% kill participation Rylai's, or 70% Kill participation Move speed. 20% CDR or 40% Capped CDR.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sl86yto9,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-03-18T03:01:13.694+0000) > > Except...... that E literally can hit 2200 4 times during her ult, notwithstanding the Burn after it...... and she doesn't even have to engage anyone..... The math states 220 + 100% of ap. Unless you are standing in fire im not sure how you are hitting those numbers so easily. > > When I play it I literally shoot blind bushes and Quadra kill. Even early game, it does 30% of their Hp in the initial hit. Not sure jow unless you have substantial ap. It also wont oneshot anyone unless they are squishy, with no defensove items. Ap shyvana is hardly broken. Annoying but not broken.
Your math is horribly wrong. The math states: Shyvana unleashes a fireball forward in a line that will mark all enemies it hits, dealing 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+70% of ability power) (+ 0.3 per total attack damage) magic damage to them. The fireball stops upon colliding with an enemy champion. Shyvana's basic attacks against marked enemies deal bonus magic damage equal to 3.25% of their maximum health. Dragon Form: Flame breath explodes when it hits an enemy champion or reaches its destination, dealing 100-160 (at levels 1-18) (+30% of ability power) bonus magic damage and leaving behind a flame zone. The zone is 220 / 240 / 260 units wide (at ranks 1 / 2 / 3 of Dragon's Descent) and deals 60-120 (at levels 1-18) (+20% of ability power) (+ 0.1 per total attack damage) magic damage per second. Enemies that remain in the flame zone are persistently marked for Flame Breath's bonus on-hit damage. In other words: - 60-220 Base (non Dragon form) damage, + 70% AP scaling on the BASE of the skill + 30% total attack damage (Shyvana has 66-123 AD, so without items this still adds up to 41 damage) _**- Dragon form adds ANOTHER 100-160 Base damage to the initial hit + another 30% AP**_ That brings the initial hit up to 160 - 380 Base damage, + 100% AP +30% AD. The burn will always hit a target at least once, resulting in ANOTHER 60-120 damage plus 20% AP +10% AD scaling per tick. ----------------------------- With just three items, you have 424 AP. At level 16, this will deal 220 + 145 (365) Base damage + 424 AP damage + 39 AD damage = 828 Initial hit damage. The first Burn tick will take off another: 110 + 85 + 12 = 207 In other words, E in Dragon form with just {{item:3089}} {{item:3115}} {{item:1402}} E does 1035 Damage. Furthermore, the {{item:1402}} will proc, putting the damage over 1200. Any subsequent burns also activate Dark Harvest, for another 100-240+ damage. You can literally do 1300-1400 E's with just 400+ AP. The math at 900 AP is over 2300 damage. And, that's assuming the targets only take one burn Proc. If the targets are mid fight with someone, CC'd, etc, it will do far MORE. ------------------------------ Squishies are part of the game, and Shyvana has one of the fastest jung clears in the game.... She will always be levels ahead of other champions if they are jungling right. That's part of what makes the build insidious. I've had a team of melees like YI/Panth, etc literally just get one shot by this build. Part because I had faster farm. Part because they couldn't itemize in time.
: never seen a shyv using dark harvest nor zyra
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Shyvana/ It's literally her 55% pick rate rune right now because E can instant proc it on an AP build. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Zyra/ More nuanced. It's about performing the same as Electrocute among statistically significant rune picks. I use it because I build a Move speed build on her, and can stack DH 30-45 times per game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0JbI0gl,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-03-18T00:54:19.750+0000) > > {{champion:143}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:17}} All currently main DH.... Teemo uses either Aery or Grasp to greater effect than DH.
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Teemo/ DH is literally tied with Aery. Both beat Grasp hard.
Nhifu (NA)
: It's not broken and taking over the game though? Like I want to be able to play Shyvanna as a pretty tanky champ. Not Ult in and die in 2 seconds lol
You don't die in 2 seconds if you use your R on nothing and just spam E. That's the whole point of this build.
: Because this isn't about the build being OP or broken (which it is not) it is about players not liking the playstyle and it not fitting her thematically. Dragons in general are portrayed as extremely strong creatures that a durable, mobile, and menacing, while this build makes her extremely squishy, and she is not mobile as an overall champion anyway, and she really isn't menacing. The only scary part of her is her E.
Except...... that E literally can hit 2200 4 times during her ult, notwithstanding the Burn after it...... and she doesn't even have to engage anyone..... When I play it I literally shoot blind bushes and Quadra kill. Even early game, it does 30% of their Hp in the initial hit. By item 2, it's 60%. It takes no skill at all to play. As long as you know 1) CDR and 2) Second item death cap, it literally controls every game you play. If you get to charge your R at all, they are going to lose. I know you don't think it's OP because you think that the strategy revolves around using R to hit people. But it DOESN'T. I can literally ult passively in place, and just start throwing E's. If I have Minions near me, I can get 5-6 E's off simply by slowing the degen of her Rage. Think about Baron and Drake pits. She can literally burn 1/3 of each pit per Cast, and solo stop an objective take every single game, and do it from a longer range than the Morgana W people complain about mid lane passive clearing. Maybe you've seen a bad one. I don't know. But when I play this, I literally 1v5 the game. I get every single Drake, and The other team is forced to recall literally every time I ult. And I almost never die doing it, because I'm not even really in the fight. Btw...... I have actually tested how OP this is; I have spent a game doing nothing but casting E's to champions. I was the highest damage dealer on BOTH teams by over 19,800 damage to champions. Just from using E. None of the rest of her kit at all.
Nhifu (NA)
: I hate how AP shyv is the only viable build on her.
Oh but when I make a post about it taking over and being broken, entire community came down to downvote me and bury it. Who would have thunk an uninteractive build that can shoot safe E's and kill people with 1 skill on Shyvana?
: Dark harvest is being ruined because of 1 champion?
{{champion:143}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:17}} All currently main DH....
: Almost forgot Neace existed. Used to watch him for fun from time to time. He's been saying what was wrong about League for a very long time. Still, Dunkey said it best though when he announced that he was quitting League. To further expand on the subject the major root of this problem is that US game companies are complete shit when it comes to handling their consumer base. They don't give 2 shits as long as they can milk you as hard as fucking possible.
Except Riot is actually a Chinese Company following overarching Chinese guidelines.....
: Proof that the game is dying as a result of bad decisions on na
That's only NA and does not match up with Global statistics. Globally, 2018 brought concurrent users up to 80 mil per month from 67 mil in 2017.
IbMcFly (NA)
: illabethe...initially, when reading this post in it’s entirety, I dismissed you as a hater. You constantly threw out stats, but never cited your sources, except a wiki link to show Morgana’s aa range. You dismiss her entire kit as subpar, when she’s got 2 stuns, an AOE damage skill shot that increases when enemies are a low health, a spell shield, and decent damage output(well get to why your damage output wasn’t high). It was early on that I realized you just don’t really understand either Morgana or the support role. Your definition of zoning involved win rates, when zoning is an in game mechanic employed to deny cs exp, which Morgana is capable of and excels at in the right situation. You claimed she was just a spell shield support lol, pros might put a second rank in E early, but Q IS The first maxed. I’m sorry that your lack of game understand caused you to not do as much damage with Morgana as she is capable of, prompting to you look at what was wrong, instead of looking inside your own mind and abilities you decided to question the AUTO attack range of a champion. Like someone said here, it’s your fault your not getting your desired damage output from Morgana, not an inherent disadvantage in her kit. Practice more maybe?
You do realize I have a 70-80% win rate with Morgana in every Elo that I play, and have since Season 4, Right?
: A> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PkA2M0xG,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-17T01:12:41.225+0000) > > No. All the MMR's were combined into an average. You can be playing your high Silver Role, and still be credited with rewards for as if your MMR was Bronze I > > Hence Why I was Silver II but getting 9-10 LP when playing Support/Mid, which were my Silver II roles. Because my Top/Adc were B I, My MMR was adjusted drastically downward, and my main roles are getting low LP too. That’s..pretty much what I was saying. You are given your highest rank, but averaged MMR, and the system reads that and grants gains to bring your rank to your MMR, exactly like it used to. Idk what you tried to correct there.
It sounded like you were saying that even if ranks were all combined, you would get Silver II in Bronze game LP for being in a Bronze game, and that you would get different LP rewards if you were playing the rank of higher role, and that Riot was secretly still tracking 5 different MMR's, one for each role.
GzuMafia (EUW)
: Lp gain low why?
We've been over this..... several times..... When Riot ended Position ranking, they did NOT adopt your highest MMR. They have you a high rank, but gave you an MMR which is an average of all your roles. If 2 of 5 roles are 2-3 tiers below your highest, this effectively resulted in Riot treating you the same way they treat you after a 20 loss streak.
: LAZERS!!!!!!!!!!!{{champion:161}} {{champion:99}} He can't stop LAZERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! *disclaimer* No they are not counterpicks.
{{champion:43}} Is a counterpick.
Monlyth (NA)
: Does Yasuo have a real weakness?
{{champion:43}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:43}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtYWiy7m,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-17T01:28:13.073+0000) > > Everyone is holding me back Alright I got it.
Not everyone. But I dare you to carry when your support is nuking your CS waves, as an adc. I dare you.
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Illabethe

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