: That's exactly it. in theory the idea to have stats to help break through someones resistances is good, but in practice, Riot just added too many. So much so that it's almost a bad idea to even build the resistances in the first place.
Go tell that to Garen/Voli/Blitz teams. I'm sure they're going to tell you to "Preach." Nah. They're going to say you're a narb. Resist benefits vs Burst more than it does vs sustained damage. Try First Iteming a Spirit Visage on an {{champion:103}} sometime vs a {{champion:105}} , or First item SV on a {{item:3065}} . You will not only decimate his "Burst" you will win the trades. If you rush AP on either one of them, and mistep, expect to get slaughtered by Fizz. Top Juggernauts almost entirely build tank..... because it does impact their survivability. It might not lock out all damage, but it sure as hell slows the rate at which you take it, even vs a Void staff.
: Is it damage in general that is broken or is it burst?
It's neither tbh. It's Framerate reaction time/skill resets, and how much they've been throttled up mechanically over time. Just had a Zed mid feed a Master Yi so hard that he had a Botrk and a Guinsoo's when everyone else was finishing a first item. Ofc, my Support Pyke was nice enough to pull Ulting Twitch jungler on top of me or E through an already Alpha striking Yi. What fun when you require reaction time but don't actually get it.
: What's up with the flux of trolling duos/3-mans lately?
They are hedging on the rumor that new season Placements will be a hard reset and old ranks not matter.
Anìmê (NA)
: Reminder: Karma Update is Still Supposedly Going to Happen Even After the Extreme Criticism
Sorry but nothing they are offering in the Karma rework really changes her profile/framework. It adds to the options you have to play. That's all. Cry more. Meanwhile.... I'll pull a 65% with her next season.
: True Damage Counter?
Depends where it comes from. {{item:3031}} is still somewhat mitigated by {{item:3047}} {{item:3143}} whose passives apply to the crit damage before it is converted. Otherwise...... Heals? Higher HP vs champs that don't do HP damage? Bone Plating? That's about it.
: If you went 24-3 it means you're way better than whatever elo those games were play at.
: Who has the strongest level 1?
Not even close. {{champion:107}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:24}} have the strongest level 1s. Shen has a Level 1 taunt that can isolate you long enough to kill you with Ignite. Jax can Level 1 Counterstrike charge and flash in to turn your damage against you, and it's usually strong enough to 1 shot. Rengar can turn bushes into a secondary skill with Bola and FB at level 1 to continual resets.
BigFBear (EUW)
: yeah maybe it will be a bit harder game. But with your fuck**ng "gg" or "ff" you set a tone in the heads of your teammates. You say everyone that you have give up already. When i hear that my hopes for that game drops to zero. Maybe i even play worse because of that. Just STOP it!
I'm pretty sure my 10/2/8 + scores send a different signal than the GG. I would rather say GG to get their attention that they are F'ing up, than leave them to their delusions that "There's nothing wrong" with what they are doing. Because that's exactly what they think: My death didn't cause a big difference to the game at 3:00. But that's exactly what it did, and it's going to turn that opponent from a 4 CS/minute weakling into a 6-7 CS/minute good farmer/trader who can kill paper tigers. I've been quiet for 15 minutes of a game, and watched my team go 6/29, and all 6 of the kills were me. When I say something, they slow down sometimes, even if they find me offensive, and try to prove me wrong. I don't like solo carrying 4 people who deserve to lose. I don't like that after 5 years, they still don't know how to play or basic mechanics.
Chillzo (EUW)
: Nothing worse then having a troll ruin your game. It seriously pisses me off when someone dies in the first 2 minutes and goes GG, ff at 15.
I'm going to be honest. I DO say GG and complain on those first deaths sometimes. But it's more complicated than that: -It's how those first deaths happened. Did your team invade and give up a Quadra kill to a Yi at level 1? That's a GG. He just got half his first item at level 1. He's going to snowball that lead. Did your bot lane run to lane through the river, in a game vs a hard CC support like Leona or Blitz? That's probably a GG. It suggests they have 0 awareness of safe pathing. Did your bot lane, who hard lane counters the other bot..... feed them? That's highly suggestive of a lack of experience, and as a consequence, your bot lane is going to do that the entire game. Did your top lane feed Illaoi? That's not good. It probably just tipped the game supremely in their favor. Did your top/anybody give Irelia FB? You probably just turned her into a 1v5 machine. Did mid lose to Katarina by level 5? Chances are, level 6 Katarina is going to go bot and pick up a 1v2 double, and take away the game (had this happen 2 days ago; horrible Thresh and LB Mid. Katarina ended game in like 16-17 minutes with 28,000 damage to champs. No one even had the capacity to build items because once she's fed, she can just onslaught the early game paper tigers). -------------------------- Early game kills are the largest deciding factor to a win/loss. If you're diminishing the impact, you're naïve. Even Drakes/Barons are lesser deciding factors. HOWEVER..... there are innocent, nonconsequential first bloods/deaths which you really shouldn't get toxic over: An evenly matched bot lane. A ganked top lane/bot lane. An innocent invasion death to a team who visually used blind spots while you had no real way to avoid all blind spots, of a champ with no level 1 mobility. Dying to a champ you counter, who you can turn into a larger takedown. ---------------------- P.S. Although I may rage and say GG, It doesn't ever mean I've giving up. I Haven't surrendered ONCE in 5 years. I will drag a game to its completion, win, or loss. I've turned around some mighty 1 sided games, although rarer than I'd like to be possible.
: Well, I'd hope he has 3 full items by the time he's level 18. Especially since it counts AD from runes, and infernal. It also rewards him for building full AD, instead of getting 3 damage items and then building 2 full tank items. It doesn't matter if the champ has the "lowest base AD in the game" when his kit doesn't need huge base AD, not like he buys steraks or triforce. He doesn't get HP because he instead gets more AD, and his kit does have plenty of damage in it even with just the ultimate. His passive is just really annoying to deal with, you need to completely kill him otherwise he comes back with full health seconds later.
Most games do not get to 18, especially on Pyke as a support. As a jungler or mid, maybe..... Support Pyke lags on levels and income. He also is nub bait as full AD, which is why he's at 48%. If he blows everything engaging, he's dead. If he saves everything as an escape, his engage isn't that strong, and good players can mitigate it. And actually..... Base AD matters. It means his clear speed, auto attack trading are both weak. If he attacks an adc, jungler or support, he's at a trading disadvantage in both damage from skills AND damage from auto attacks. Also, contrary to belief, Trinity Force is one of Pyke's BEST items. Or, at least it was when {{item:3071}} was one of his first items. The CDR/stats/move speed all offered Pyke MUCH better mobility, and he could use Transcendence to hedge quite a bit more Bonus AD. Now, that he has to rush Youmuu's and probably Duskblade, that's changed alot. --------------- Edit: I wanted to follow up on this: Triforce allowed Pyke to double on proc too. Meaning Sheen + Duskblade. it created more feasible damage outputs and sticking power than going BC first (BC really was situational to tank teams), and compensated part of the damage his build/stats doesn't have. It wasn't what I'd consider toxic, as abusing it took a considerable lead and a very bad other team. But it WAS better than his current meta, and partially why he's now a 48% champ instead of 50-51%. Which..... ofc every major other meta champ is running 52-54%..... so I see this personally as an issue. I like Pyke. But.... I won't play him simply because he's no longer a 50% champ. He's a target, and has no way to mitigate most of his counters at all in a "Group Mid" meta.
: I'm talking about his win rate bro. He went 20-3 in Silver. That's 20 wins and 3 losses. That's around an 85% win rate.
He's also smurfing on a new account. Before 2 days ago, I went a 24/3 streak on Zyra. (2 days ago, I got 7 int feed teams in a row, or at least feed so hard so early that irredeemable). I brought this account from Bronze II to Silver III in those 24/3. (Then lost 1 2/3 to the 7)
: Yes, every projectile except Lux's ulti and Vel'Koz's ulti. Even things like Camille E (the throw, not the dash)
Lux and Vel Koz are not Projectiles. They are Lasers. Anything classified as a laser is immune to wind wall. Also, chaining skills which originate both at the target and the caster always connect, like LB and Karma's Tethers. Also, non target specific aoes can bypass his shield (like Zyra's Q/R)
: Can Yasuo windwall Fizz's ult?
Don't let your own question fool you. Fizz is a legitimate Yasuo Counter. Just don't rely on your ult unless you can time it between wind walls. Use Trickster to dodge Yasuo Q Tornado, and then engage him. He won't be able to do much, and half your Trident Bleed will survive his barrier. If you landed on him with Lich bane, he's done.
: Why are people talking about placements?
In what way are they talking about them? It's 5 days away, and a legitimate concern, because no one exactly knows how it's going to ship in live form..... 1) Are Diamond/Plats/Golds going to be in the same placements as Silver/Bronze (There have been conversations about Rioter comments suggesting this season is a hard reset, and doesn't take into account preseason/Season 8. That only New aco%%%%s will by default start in Iron) 2) How Fill is going to affect placements (From the way Riot described Placements, you're going to have to play 50 placement games, 10 per role, before it's over. Talk about taxing an already game exhorbitant system with more games) There is a lot of uncertainty and people are scared.
: This was just one change I had in mind for him. Another one I would make is to lower the AD ratio on how much his passive heals. 80+800% is way too much, he only needs 35-162 bonus AD to reach the maximum cap of 60% HP. Maybe change it to 50+750% as a start.
You do realize that on Pyke, that's 3 full items before he can max it out? How many games do you go, where you get past 3 full items before a base is getting pushed in? oh right......... Cry more about a 60% heal passive when the champ has one of the lowest BASE AD in the game, the only champ who cannot build HP, and has TONS of counterplay to his W/R, and kit doesn't have much innate built in damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eMOiEoAh,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-18T23:51:09.657+0000) > > The older version was much too powerful on tank Pyke because of it's high numbers and AD scaling. Current version is more healthy, but still feels bad to rank up. That's not why they changed it and they have already killed his tank builds so what? The way it is right now is way worse, with 180% movement speed.
1) he never EVER reaches 180% Movement Bonus. With Dusk + Youmuu's, he's only at + 54%, or 94% total, and that's only at the beginning of the skill, tapering off to near nothing over the 5 seconds. Most champions with move speed bonuses have CONSTANT speeds. 2) His Lethality build is underperforming hard. I know everyone hates a 25/3 Pyke, but it's not him doing 90% of the work. 20 of 25 of those kills per game are just kill secures...... not some metric of damage/performance. He's the one champ you never have to worry about hard carrying with a score like that.
: Community: Riot nerf Jax and Kassadin!
To be fair, I can outrun/outtank a Jax with {{champion:16}} . Check my last loss (My team truly). -30k+ Damage to champs -41k heals -140 CC -40k damage taken -51k damage mitigated. .... Fun way to lose..... but hey. I outran and outhealed Jax chasing me twice.... for 50-60 seconds each.
: What about game play changes? What is the analogy for champion reworks etc.?
Pretty sure Big Mac's been changed at least 3 times.
: Actually, it does prove his point quite well. Do you know how insanely difficult it is to go 20-3 in Silver, for me at least. I played over 2000 ranked games just to end in Silver 3 in season 8. Someone going 20-3 in Silver is undeniable proof that I'm just not as good as I like to believe and I could stand to improve. ELO hell doesn't exist. We are the rank we are because that is our skill level. Some people get stuck at Silver, like me. Some get stuck at Diamond and some may even get stuck at Iron. Our skill is the only thing that determines this. Nothing else. Not trolls, not afks, none of that shit.
Or it's proof you dont play that champion? I have 27/0/9 on Pyke. I still shelved him because he's a 50% champ. I had a Season 4 36/0/9 on Udyr. I shelved him because he's no longer that reliable at playing the way I liked to play him. 20/3 is a regular score in Silver....
: I want to compare league to a restaurant.
No. That's not what happened. Riot opened a McDonald's They offered cheap, mass produced meat products that look like wormburgers, puree'd chicken-like substance, and 180 degree coffee that could burn your lap, for a relatively cheap price, that made consumers decide between their product, which was resilient to inflation, and cheaper than their steak, and grill competitors. They franchised through the local Tencent distributors to spread word of mouth and gain greater talent over time into their workforce. Tencent put future employees through college, and then put them to work for Riot. Over time, as profit margins spread, they began to address consumer complaints and suggestions about their products: -After a Lawsuit due to overheated coffee, they changed the cups it's delivered in, and lowered the temperature to something that won't give you third degree burns. Furthermore, they diversified into frozen coffees. -They heeded customer complaints about their products looking like wormburgers. As a compromise, Riot began offering bigger, better, Angus burgers in prettier wrapping, better tasting sauces, and primer choices of beef, for a price. -They introduced customers to their process for making McNuggets. The chicken is pureed and then formed into 6 distinct shapes for production from the factory. This dismissed rumors of some "slime" mystery substance, and allowed consumers to appreciate their product a little more. -Customers complained about a checkout line being too slow, so they decided to automate the ordering process to keep up with current trends and technology. ---------------------------------- McDonalds is EXACTLY what Riot is. They introduced a cheap consumer product 1/5 of the world's population has played. The product was inexpensive (License and shortly after free) to use. - It appealed to people on the go who didn't want to devote whole days to one game. Their budget was (and is still) about 30 minutes of your time. This is fast food gaming. -It's increased its talent pool, by becoming part of college campus life, both as a consumer and a programmer. Without talent comes a need to diversify their product. -It has had to deal with credit card companies and legal disputes because of chargeback attempts by consumers, which both led to larger proliferation of riot cards sold in stores, and access to free content (Hextech chests) in order to in part discourage chargeback abuse. (Hextech Chests could also be a parallel to a Happy Meal). -They have improved their product over time, offering far more desirable products both in the form of skins and champions to differentiating markets. They still offer the cheap and easy champions, but have added more exotic, more expensive and more dressed up new models, but eventually are going to move toward their entire product line being Quality. -Furthermore, as they've grown, they have gained the ability to differentiate and target a market. In the beginning, their market was probably 14-22 year old Gen X gamers. Now, it's much bigger, and they are catering not only to Gen X, but to the NEW 14 year olds, and the people in between. That's a very broad market, so they might even think about trimming it down to a reliable, more focused group, because as people age, their utility in any specific game usually falls. Like the company I work for, they probably care far more about new players learning in a fast, split decision environment, because that's the product they are now offering, are more malleable to suggestion, and can be molded into the perfect consumers of a product, whereas an older player can't. -The Chicken McNugget refers to their expanded universe, as well as their expanded role in communicating development points through the PBE and Redposts. --------------------------------- Like it or not...... Riot has gone Commercial Fast Food.
: Magic Damage feels too weak without voidstaff, and too strong with it.
It's not the Void staff imo. It's the Keystones mages use. I'm currently hard climbing my smurf by literally spamming Zyra..... and although about 80% of my games are pure wins, there have been a few really annoying ones. What did they have in common? 3 Semi Mobile tanks with tremendous reliance on {{item:3065}} to survive. I'd start out these games wrecking them. But...... dealing with 3 tanks as Zyra is kind of a nightmare. You can do damage, but if you're the only one relevant, they eventually reach you and kill you. And...... they were also building {{item:3053}} . I was going {{item:3165}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} , which I don't normally do. But..... by about 20-25 minutes, these teams would just outmuscle Voidstaff. The Barrier from Steraks + heals that were left over were enough to make me irrelevant. But....... I had 30+ stacks of DH. By the time I reached 52 stacks, I could do something again. As long as I could get them under 50%, the hits and chunks gave me margins to outplay again. Just had one of these games. My Top Renekton left lane at level 3 and gave Garen a 100% free lane. Started telling team to do stupid things like take a drake when entire other team was RIGHT THERE, warded. So I had the choice; try to stop baron, or try to get kills off my team suiciding. I got a double off Drake while Garen had a free ride to take the second turret. Entire game, Garen dominated 1v5. I could discourage him from advancing, but that was about it.
: Do you understand what wither does it is a 90% for 1 sec at the END of the duration. You want to know what all adcs can do vs it auto move that is it nasus does not have a good enough ms to get close and adcs like cait can auto before he gets in range to use it and almost every adcs can build bork stop nasus from getting close to them and a lot of adcs have a dash or cc like there nothing nasus can do vs a lucian with a bork other then just flash q and 90% of the time there are other champions like the support that can just cc nasus to stop him.
It's 47-95%. The By 2 seconds of 5, he has slowed Ashe more than she has slowed him. Your other points are really Weak. I've seen a Nasus literally chase down a Vayne and Ezreal with Iceborne. 1 dash kits do not offer enough distance to avoid Wither #2. If an adc gets near Nasus without a peeling ally, they are dead. Period.
Doge2020 (NA)
: Tip from a nasus main, group with many people when going to face a fed nasus. That way wither’s effectiveness is lost. Nasus can’t reach the withered adc if the supp leona drops her full combo, and right after the mid laner uses their cc too. And btw there are many ways that adc’s can do to outplay the use of wither when in a 1v1 against nasus. Ashe’s entire kit helps her kit a nasus, use R to stun the nasus, use W right when the stun finishes to slow him, AA if he gets too close to slow him, use w when it is off CD and no slows are on the nasus, use the cutlass active if needed, use flash and/or heal if necessary.
1) I don't need advice. 2) Your advice you just gave is horrible, dependent on the participants: a) Nasus can reliably take out 1-2-3 targets of 5 when teams gank him, when played correctly. He can get some 68% Tenacity, so CC becomes neglible. Most people also don't build grievous wounds, so he usually takes too long to kill. Most people who gang also usually don't have Armor Penetration. I know your Leona doesn't. Meanwhile, Nasus has 24-36% Life steal at that point, + {{item:3065}} , and does 1200 damage hits. He also shreds armor, and has attack spam on Ult. Unless you have 6-8 CC, this is horrible advice, and is going to usually lead to a trade of 3 deaths for one kill, potentially a turret save (or loss, depending on how the Nasus played) b) If you are grouping to kill a Nasus, you are doing NOTHING to prevent his team from acting. So, you may save a top turret, but both/mid/jung push your bot/mid and take an Inhibitor by the time you're done. That's what happens at high elo. The REAL way to fight Nasus is to essentially have one mage and one OP fighter assigned to it, like {{champion:11}} (Who cannot be slowed) and {{champion:143}} who can supplement from a range, offers plants who all have independent attack speeds, and can peel for the fighter if the fight gets testy. This leaves 3 of your teammates to cover other lanes/objectives. Even then, they risk a 3v4, which isn't great unless you are very far ahead. But it's better than 5v1ing Nasus with champs who can't handle it, and leaving the rest of the map to 0v5. 3) If Nasus has landed a Wither, Ashe's R only lasts 1.5 seconds, pre Tenacity. He blows her up when it's over. She can't orb him, and WIther lessens attack speed. She has to attack him about 10 times. He has to hit her 1-2 times. He has time to do it, and she can't run faster than he can slow. You need to consider, a good Nasus has {{item:3078}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3075}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3053}} ...... all of which counter such a tactic.
GreyfellD (EUW)
: Everyone has become so obsessed with winning, they've forgotten how to enjoy the game
You're semi wrong: By pushing a ranked format with an Esport associated with it, Riot turned a "Fun Game" in one that has at least in part a "Dream of accomplishment" associated with it. It has Trophies, Fans, Video feeds, merchandise based off popular players..... meeting the WWF..... This is not a game. It's an accomplishment for those who perform well at it, but not at physical sports.
: Have the adcs tried not standing still I have found that to work. Also how do you not beat nasus as cho like nasus can't lane vs him and later into the game cho is a better team fighter then him too like yeah you're not going to 1v1 nasus late as cho that is the nature of the match up there is nothing wrong with that.
lol What? Do you even know what Wither does? Adcs might as well be standing still after being on clicked by it. Don't know too many adcs who have ways to get out of Wither..... A 90% Slow.... with a 5 sec duration/ 6 second cooldown....
: your arrogance offends me and for that I will not dignify you with an elaborate response other than to say: k bro... lol
Knowledge is mistaken for arrogance by those who have none, so I'll take that as a compliment.
Doge2020 (NA)
: Nasus can push a wave very fast if he doesn’t prioritize stacks anymore and is focused more on applying pressure. A maxed E can very easily help push the wave because of the initial damage from cast, the DoT and the armor reduction of enemy units in the area. But besides that very small detail I agree with what you and the OP said. They need to do something like make his wither able to spread to enemies that are nearby, but nerf the slow of wither in compensation so it doesn’t become gamebreaking.
I know what he "Can do." I'm generally speaking from what he "does do:" Prioritize stacks while in lane, Or Abandon lane at the cost of stacks to work with his team. The latter is rare. The prior happens in 80% of games. I very rarely ever see a Nasus just blow up waves with E to get to a turret in fast manner.
: So the nasus buffs failed to do anything of value in the long run
I'll give you an Upvote. I agree. I argued this both times they buffed his damage. His win rate is NOT correlated with his performance. His win rate is correlated with the conundrum that helping a team versus split pushing a lane are contradictory objectives, and his kit has a built in split pushing incentive, forcing a playstyle for the majority of every game, even if that isn't the best idea. Unlike Tryndamere and Yorick, who can roam and do their split push while basically rushing minion waves and eliminating them to get to a turret, Nasus has to go slow to ensure Q's. This deprives him of the capacity of ress timers/counterplay to do what they do: Push lanes while also contributing to a team. Nasus does one or the other. He can have 2000 stacks and still lose a game, simply because it doesn't usually change the outcome of a fight vs champs who are competitive vs him. It only affects teams who are poorly built, who face tank, one after another. Which...... as you go up tiers..... happens less and less.
: destroys pyke? he can easily dodge blitz's Q with his E or to even mitigate that possibly he can go into stealth which has a move speed boost and more often than not escapes cleanly. You may be able to argue on mechanics here and there, but his regen is still an issue, they did fix the ult execute threshold somewhat but the amount he can heal after a trade is ridiculous and unless you can totally all in him (which is difficult because he can use a lot of tank properties and still retain decent damage) then he can reenter a fight within seconds with hardly a scratch. He is getting there but there are still parts of him that are not properly balanced. Coming from a person whos played pyke a decent amount too.
..... At which point he has no kit left with which to go offensive.... Pyke is put on the defensive that entire game..... trying to avoid pull/knockups. He does not have the leverage to go on the OFFENSIVE. The point is...... Blitz doesn't give Pyke the Capacity to pull anyone or do any job in lane: -He can't use {{item:3307}} on threat of an open gap getting him pulled. -He can't pull someone to set his adc up for a kill (If he pulls Blitz, Blitz counterpulls him, giving his adc a better opportunity of controlling the fight. If He wants to pull the adc, Blitz gets in the way, controls the minion wave motions better, and this proposition becomes extremely hard. His heal is the direct tradeoff for his low damage and fixed HP gain. I'm sorry you don't know how to work around it. But, when you do, which will be "eventually"..... Pyke will lose every single game. P.S. I'm pretty sure you've never pulled a 27/0/9 Pyke game without using a damage Keystone Rune, with 2 unofficial Solo Octo/Septakills (Because the kills were spaced out about 15 seconds. And the first were killed shortly after they ressed) Try playing Pyke vs Me. You will never win a single trade. Ever.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: The support role is just an other word for "carries without items" that's what it is in season 9 alistar pyke gragas elise brand zyra all can almost 100-0 you at lvl 3
Zyra cannot level 3 100-0 you. She can at 6, and after, but it really takes getting ahead on items. At level 3, she does about 1/6-1/5 of an HP bar per skill, and if her plants are permitted to keep doing damage, a little more. Not saying it doesn't disrupt a lane. But it's not some Instant death combo. Pyke also can't. His damage scaling is small. Brand does about 60%, and needs to do his combo twice. Elise can. Gragas is an iffy claim. He'd have to hit his entire kit perfectly.
: I very much agree with this. Spellthief just allows mage supports to itemize faster compared to if they were playing mid. Relic just stagnates a laning phase (or creates a pushing war considering the item has an execute).
I Play "Fill" Zyra and I can tell you this: I get the same gold no matter what role I'm playing. Spellthief is not comparatively giving more than a lane role. If you manage to carry, the gold can get close to a lane phase income, but most of it will still come from the kills, not the item itself.
: Nerf spellthief. But seriously, even at low tiers of play, burst supports are a pervasive problem. I appreciate that they are nerfing Brand and Zyra to tone it down, but the underlying problem remains; at that point you're just nerfing champions who abuse your OP system so you don't have to change it. Coin isn't broken. Balance the lane around *that*, instead of these consistently problematic items. Yes, you read that right. I got even *more* extreme, and I think removing relic shield wouldn't be crazy, either. Just let coin have branching upgrade paths and steer into the curve, since spellthief and relic are balance nightmares at various levels of play.
You do realize most enchanters also take Spellthief? Coin isn't used anymore, because the calculations are now against supports who take it: In Season 8 around September they reduced the average gold coin payouts from 10 pickups per minute to 9. The only time I use coin tbh anymore is..... as a Top laner whose potentially against a hard counter. (Doesn't work bad either. I finish quests in 11-13 minute as top laner). The truth is simply this: _**Support success as an enchanter is driven by the baseline success of their adc, and always has been.**_ Adcs being less impactful and more squishy unless they have full lane control management..... is leading to less instances where the support doesn't struggle as an enchanter. Even if the supports roam mid etc. to add to their presence, if they have a poor adc, that adc is going to feed in their absence. So there's a catch 22: Sacrifice XP to roam mid and help them, and their adc dies, OR: Stay with the adc, watch them struggle, and struggle as a consequence yourself, because you're less likely to be able to charge your quest item, leading to less wards, less gold, and stagnant XP growth. Carry supports do not have this problem. If an adc struggles, they just take over. P.S. I know that a strong ADC can be impactful, and decimate a team. But they normally need a front line to do so, not a healer, because the counter damage they are taking is usually enough to kill them too, and happens too fast. And that usually comes very late game, after the lane phase discussion I'm presenting.
Yraco (EUW)
: By mobility I guess I'm talking about who can get around fastest during a fight, with his w/e/r with resets Pyke would probably come out on top. Karma might be able to keep up with his w for a bit but after that he still has other forms of mobility. Nami and Janna are the same but less mobile than Karma (unless out of combat because they build mobis) Zyra is the same situation again.
But...... Karma can Root him for 3 seconds, followed by a slow with her Q.... And if he's running, he's not being offensive. He cannot do Both. That's why this really isn't an appropriate conversation. If Pyke is rooted for 3 seconds, he's dead. And she has a short cooldown mobility burst for if he tries to get away after that root too. The reason I brought up Zyra is..... I can actually chase a Pyke with her. I can't ensure a lockdown like with Karma, and sometimes he can get away, but he literally can't trade with me. Her root is shorter, and killing with her requires a little more nuance or being heavily fed. And I don't use Mobis on Zyra either. I get 526 WITHOUT Mobis. When Pyke's W is down, I can catch up to him, harass him again, as long as the warding is there.
: Interesting conversation to be had here about actual power vs. perceived power. I currently have mild debates with one of my buddies about Pyke... I feel that the stats support the argument that he's in a decent spot. However, my buddy maintains that he's awful to play against. He *does* have a lot in his kit, especially to play around. Win rate also doesn't encompass other game health issues, like snowballing. Perhaps Pyke is too oppressive when ahead? I like Jimmy Rustles assertion that perhaps he trades too well; this may make him feel bad to play against even if he's "balanced" because he mitigates traditional strategy a bit too hard.
As a Pyke player (Ex since he's not really in a carry up the ladder position right now), I'd argue he's about the same whether he is ahead or not. His kit doesn't have enough damage to solo competent players. He leeches other players' contributions more than anything. He's not an initiator, and when he tries to, he kills himself. And if he's not an initiator, he's a cleanup crew, which means his Hook has less utility than other hooks. Using his W and E for Offense denies him using it for defense. Even when fed, he dies just the same, and does similar damage per damage cycle. If you compare a 6/6/7 Pyke to a 25/2 Pyke, they generally perform about the same. The 25/2 just gave the other team less gold overall, and gave his team a lot more. I really think league players need to walk 100k Mastery in Pyke's shoes before being given the privilege to judge him. They'd see intimately just how many champs outright counter him, how many who don't who can still outplay him, and more..... how many champs can outright 1 shot him irregardless of his build (There are some extremely strong ones; Miss Fortune can 1 shot. Diana can 1 shot. Kai Sa can 1 Shot with Q. Jhin can 1 shot. Illaoi 1 shots. Tryndamere both ults to not die, and 1 shots on his low HP/High Fury condition with a single auto attack. etc). P.S. I have yet to see another support put a {{item:2055}} in their lane bush to give permanent stealth detection when laning vs Pyke. They don't seem to realize that by putting a control ward in their bush, and warding the adjacent bush, they pretty much destroy Pyke's ability to contribute to any lane with ranged champions: If Pyke tries to kill the control ward, he's going to get poked to death while he attempts to destroy it. If Pyke tries to engage, he loses the ability to W out, because he's detected, and if you Ignite him, he has no bush to run to to heal up. Just by spending 75G, you destroy all his options except running to the river...... which separates him from his adc. But....... no one does that, right? (Seriously. I Can dual Pyke with Soraka. But I have 180k Pyke Mastery. What do I know?)
Yraco (EUW)
: What other support (excluding maybe Rakan) is close to Pyke's mobility.
Depends what you mean by Mobile. Move speed..... Karma beats him. Overall map mobility, Nami/Janna. If you're talking dashes, that's a little different. P.S. I have 526 Move speed on Zyra, so I'm pretty sure I can keep up with Pyke :)
: "He is not op, if u just pick...", at that moment your argument is already invalid. League is not a game where you see your enemie first all the time, if their are only specific champions that make pyke not op, then in a game with a 140 roster he is most of the time op. That is a concistency for which endless champs have been gutted already.
About 70% of the roster outright overpowers Pyke. His kit lacks significant damage, and there are outplays for every skill given how well you know the game. I haven't been hit by a Pyke ult in 2+ months. Probably because I also have 180k Pyke Mastery. You need to play a champ to know that champ's inefficiencies. You can force E and R ult misses. You can set up absolute certain kills on Pyke. You can prevent him from getting away with W, or ever hitting a hook.
Thilmer (EUW)
: His invisibility is quite ridiculous. You need to basically get into melee range to see him; is worse than Twitch or Evelynn.
Or you ward an area, and Ignite him...... then he can't......
: Agreed. I am sick of wasting a ban on him. His his ulti is one of the most single stupid things I ever seen in this. A support having a scaling execute cant be balanced period.
Or you could learn to dodge his ult/not be a target of it.
Poske (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yraco,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVLtn9Ex,comment-id=000700000001,timestamp=2019-01-17T11:01:26.075+0000) > > Blitz hook is strong in a different way, Pyke and Thresh hooks take you a short way towards them and both cc you for longer on the hooks themselves but Blitzcrank's hook is usually safer than those abilities because it brings the target all the way to him and his team without having to potentially dash into the enemy team like the others. Yeah I know all that Pyke however has **2 ways of dashing forward which sets up hooks** and overall he has way higher MS then blitz + camouflage This is why Pyke is superrior hooker and if any compettetive player mains blitz in a game where pyke exists he is just straight up dumb His hook also has higher range and madlife potentional. Yes it doesnt pull the full distance but I cant stretch how little that matters Even if blitz Q were superior ability then Pyke Q (And btw it is not by a small margin) pyke would still be a better hooker because rest of kit enables his hooks better Let me give you a list of League most efficient hookers (sounds wrong lul) 1. Pyke 2. Thresh 3. blitz 4. Ahri 5. naut 6. skarner 7. darius Blitz is third. Both thresh and pyke offer more then just hooks And this is why Blitz is noobbait
Everything you just said is false. Blitz literally has a better win rate and hit box than Pyke does, because there is no charge up. Blitz's range is also higher. Blitz pulls 925 units. Pyke pulls 400 units with a range of 400-1100 (after charge up) (If you get hit by it, you're a bad player or running away in a bad way) Furthermore, Pyke gives up damage to use Q as a hook. Blitzcrank directly has a 51.91% Win rate over Pyke. He also has a positive win rate overall https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Blitzcrank/ Pyke has a win rate of 48.7%. Which is entirely antithesis to the argument that his ult has too much utility, giving teammates gold..... because teams win games, not one champ. If he's 48.7%, that ult isn't that influential.
: Pyke shouldnt even exist tbh. Hes literally an assassin that riot tried to sell as a "unique support" that is stupidly overloaded.
Yup...... low damage, situational useability, and permanently low HP is totally overloaded. Oh. And one of the lowest Base AD's in the game.
Poske (EUNE)
: Pyke nerfs any time soon? He is no longer a new champion
Sorry..... But Pyke doesn't have anywhere near Evelynn's damage output, cooldowns, or complete invisibility (You know at least where on the map a Pyke is). P.S. Blitzcrank Destroys Pyke, because his pull requires no windup, has a better followup, more on board damage, displaces a target further, and is far tankier. Learn to play against a balanced champ rather than whining about him.
: Please post on your diamond account for proof. Ty.
People have been trying to get me to nark myself for about 2 years. You're not going to be the one to break my secret :)
: Point me in the direction of these Challenger streamers and their stuck in gold/Plat accounts. I’d like to see a link to their challenger account and their gold account. Thx.
I'm D II- III. My smurf this year got dropped from Silver I into Bronze II while I was experimenting with Neeko builds. It took some 190 games to get back to S III, and most of that is a straight ~80% win streak at the end. I'd get to a promo, and then have 4 people literally 1/16 on me while I had over FOUR TIMES their damage/objectives. I finally had to stop playing lane appropriate champs and just play Zyra EVERYTHING (Zyra adc, Zyra support, Zyra jungle, Zyra Top, Zyra mid) and just stomp 1v5). Elo hell via MMR placing isn't real. But Elo hell via expected proficiency players is VERY real. Your contribution is diminished when 4 people are so unskillful that they are just as bad legitimately playing as they would be just int feeding. That's where low Silver/Bronze is right now. They do not understand that early game kills/deaths are the most influential factor to winning a game. They do not mind going 5/25, "because teamwork can beat that late game." (The other team can be unskillful too, but if your team is the one losing the cointoss clownfest, even bad players fed a 2-3 item advantage can beat a smurf. And you can't be everywhere at once preventing their deaths)
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcqvg8w2,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-01-16T04:05:39.685+0000) > > 1) Sorry. Shyvana uses FM better than Gnar. She has a more mobile kit, faster resets, and isn't limited by walls. Wait what? Gnar can kite someone to death with FM and engage anytime he pleases once he starts attacking, Shyv needs FM just to stop the enemy from running away from her if she ever catches up to them in the first place. > 2) This is dependent on the team. Like with every champ. If the team she is picking into is Miss Fortune, Evelynn, Blitzcrank, I guarantee Shyvana will be dominant in that game. Shyvana easily has the fastest jungle farm, which gets faster as the game goes, with no resource management. Not really, because shyv is too squishy nowadays. Combined damage from eve+MF will delete her in a heartbeat post 3 items with her usual build of bloodrazor+FM then titanic/deadman. Hells the people on her reddit have given up on her AD build entirely because its too damn useless, they all switched to AP and it shows on her op.gg. > 3) Shyvana can level 3 Drake. Nunu's Q cooldown that early without a team helping him will not keep up. Actually she cant really do that anymore, far too damn risky as she´ll drop to like 10% health nearing the end off it. Much more sane to just clear your jungle, recall then try it if you see the enemy jung moving towards toplane.....which would have you at lvl 4 or higher. > 4) She went from primarily AD scaling to hybrid scaling, without reducing the AD scaling. They massively boosted her E Dragon form utility. It went from being a small, low damage burst to a 60% AD scaling when it used to only have AP scaling. They narrowed the leveling gap AD ratio on Q by 10%. Hybird scaling only actually does anything if you build items to fuel it, Shyv doesnt. > 5) FM build HAS AD omfg. Hydra Build IS FM. She dominates {{champion:28}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:36}} Gets wrecked by {{champion:32}} {{champion:28}}{{champion:164}}{{champion:60}} {{champion:62}} actually, go look at her Op.GG winrates for the matchups. Shyv´s kit is too old and outdated and she is too weak to keep up with them. > 6) She's fast compared to Gnar, Nasus isn't a transformation, Renekton isn't a transformation. Jayce. Nidalee, Elise do not have Single form power that kills. they need both sides of their form to actually kill, cost resources, and was put in as a handicap challenge to make players learn to juggle 7 abilities instead of 4, increasing the difficulty. Shyvana's is just pure enhancement of the same abilities, massive aoe, % Damage, and has built in move speed, and resets. HUGE difference. Fast compared to gnar? When just running sure, but he can wallhop by default which is a massive advantage. I do agree on the argument of transformations tho, Shyv´s ult is simple and powerful for the ease of use. But make no mistake, she is terribly bad right now.
You really like to say you're the "Little Train that couldn't" ...... which tells me two things: 1) You're inexperienced with really playing Shyvana 2) Probably not understanding mechanically what I'm saying. For example: Shyvana can freely counterjungle Eve at low levels, making her entire game a nightmare. Evelynn also secondary prioritizes drakes, which means Shyvana almost has a free ride to take them. Shyvana's damage output can also utterly kill Evelynn before Evelynn can Charm, and Charm doesn't stop Shyvana's W. Evelynn literally has to dive damage to do damage in this matchup. Late game, a fed Evelynn with someone else initiating Shyvana, Eve can win trades, but when played correctly, Shyvana completely dominates the matchup.
AIQ (NA)
: 1. Gnar would like to have a word with you. 2. While her "contribution" to team fights is decent. She often will struggle against higher elo players. Shyvana excels at nothing that is not nerfed or other champions have been given tools to keep up, or in simpler terms Farming. 3. Nunu has the fastest potential Drake. You said one of tho, true she can clear it but not at little risk. Nunu can do it much safer. 4. Doubled scaling? Elaborate please. 5. A Hydra or DPS Shyvana can one shot (but honestly who cant in this meta lol) however a FM cannot. She does not duel well early against most the junglers played atm. On top of that champions that are "Meta" have high mobility which she struggles against. 6. Trues it can be potentially fast, but what transforming champion isn't. Comparable to Gnar, Nasus, and Renekton. Jayve Nid and Elise? I will say that Shyvana is not the top pick even in my book for work to be done, but her book is open at the moment. Why waste time on buffs like +10% to dragons when we could be addressing real issues like the decay on her W and stat check nature? I don't want to sound rude, but do you play Shyvana enough to know how she actually functions regularly and not just "that one game I played against her and she got really fed?"
1) Sorry. Shyvana uses FM better than Gnar. She has a more mobile kit, faster resets, and isn't limited by walls. 2) This is dependent on the team. Like with every champ. If the team she is picking into is Miss Fortune, Evelynn, Blitzcrank, I guarantee Shyvana will be dominant in that game. Shyvana easily has the fastest jungle farm, which gets faster as the game goes, with no resource management. 3) Shyvana can level 3 Drake. Nunu's Q cooldown that early without a team helping him will not keep up. 4) She went from primarily AD scaling to hybrid scaling, without reducing the AD scaling. They massively boosted her E Dragon form utility. It went from being a small, low damage burst to a 60% AD scaling when it used to only have AP scaling. They narrowed the leveling gap AD ratio on Q by 10%. 5) FM build HAS AD omfg. Hydra Build IS FM. She dominates {{champion:28}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:36}} 6) She's fast compared to Gnar, Nasus isn't a transformation, Renekton isn't a transformation. Jayce. Nidalee, Elise do not have Single form power that kills. they need both sides of their form to actually kill, cost resources, and was put in as a handicap challenge to make players learn to juggle 7 abilities instead of 4, increasing the difficulty. Shyvana's is just pure enhancement of the same abilities, massive aoe, % Damage, and has built in move speed, and resets. HUGE difference.
AIQ (NA)
: Shyvanas Buff Does Not do Nearly Enough.
Sure..... because one of the easiest kits to Abuse Frozen Mallet on, who has solid contribution to each game.... and has one of the earliest Drakes..... needs a ton. Not like they doubled up her scaling, or that she instantaeously kills champs she counters or anything..... or that she has an ult that recharges faster than most ults.......
: Udyr simply cannot catch people on bear alone, and building anything to increase his movespeed gimps his defensiveness as Turtle is only so strong. Hard CC him, or kite. It's very simple to kill an Udyr. His damage is ridiculous, and front loaded, for sure, bt he has very obvious counterplay.
You do realize his passive also stacks move speed. The ideal chase is rotating skills and starting an initiate with Bear.
: _laughs in {{item:4402}} _ He used to be wayyyyyy worse, to play Devil's advocate.
In Season 4, after a little tutoring from Trick2G, I managed to literally 1v5 a 36/0/9 with Udyr. My Team didn't exist at all. I was a life stealing monster who could kill 3 of them with 1 rotation, and then focus on the other two. Good times.
: Master Yi is mobile af. Ezreal has a blink and can kite reliably with his Q with Iceborn Gauntlet. Lucian is mobile to an extent. Kai'sa has a movement speed buff that can also stealth her with enough attack speed. Katarina is mobile. Nidalee is someone who attacks from long range. Sivir is kinda fucked, but her ultimate does help and her passive helps her kite.
Sivir can block Bear stance and ult. Udyr is a Katarina counter. Lucian isn't mobile enough to escape a good Udyr. Udyr is a Yi counter. Ezreal beats Udyr Nidalee usually loses to Udyr unless she builds tank.
: > [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hw22sEXG,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-12T19:55:28.220+0000) > > You'd be hard pressed to find a single champion in the game that doesn't possess at least some kind of CC. > > The only one that I can think of is {{champion:82}} Are we playing the same game? {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:420}} And there are shit ton of heroes, that have unreliable cc tools, like bard. Or skills, that can be dodged really easy (asol q for example) Or heroes with stupiditly high cooldowns at the beginning of the game, so it's enough for udyr just to show him self, so they're forced to use their ultimates. Or it's a kill for udyr. So the tactics is like: press all your shit, or you're going to die. Die to his next gank.
All the ones you mentioned have CC o.O Aatrox has 3 knockups and a pull. Akali has a slow. Corki has a displacement. Diana has a displacement. Ezreal builds Iceborne and goes "You can't touch this." Graves has his Smoke. Illaoi has a slow. The only champs he didn't mention with no cc is Katarina, Yi, Kai Sa, Lucian.
Show more

Illabethe

Level 186 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion