Illydth (NA)
: New ARAM for Mages?
Ludens: No MR. Useless early. AA Appears to be the only item that does anything close to mana regen, and you need the full item for that. WHere the hell is the lost chapter replacement, or are mages too powerful with mana? "New game mids! Play without spells!!!"
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: TSM is a WASTE of a seed to go to worlds.
I'm not suggesting that Haunzter didn't have culpability in that game, just like I'm not suggesting Double or Bio didn't also have a LOT of culpability in the losses. And as Raiyza says above, Parth also had a boatload of blame. But there was a difference...as I said above I felt Haunzter, Double and Bio showed up. They didn't win but they did at least make plays and attempt to engage in the game. I just didn't see Bjerg be involved. Yes, I know he played and I know he did things, but he just had almost 0 impact. Sven was the same, and given we were saying the exact same thing about him last worlds, I think it's time we start looking at who needs to be replaced on that team to potentially unlock them a bit more internationally. And then there's Parth. If Parth really ran their pick and ban phases on that stage and didn't give the players the options to choose their champs, he should be completely taken to task. I have now been watching Pro League for about 3 years. I can't remember ANY time where I've watched a team be so THOROUGHLY figured out by their opponents and still bang their heads against the same pick and ban over and over again knowing full well that they were going to get ROFLSTOMPED in the early game. "Oh, we're going to play a team comp that only goes off if we go 40+ minutes. I realize that no team in week two has gone 40+ minutes but maybe this will be the time! ... Oh wait we lost? Well THIS will be the time! No? Ok THIS will be the time..."
Ebolol (NA)
: Sven for some reason has become a punching bag for TSM fans to blame their team's losses on, but he's a solid jungler as a whole. TSM has such a high payroll, they can sign pretty much whoever, and they chose Sven because he dominated back on SK Gaming in Europe. Simply put: League is a team game, when there's a loss, it's the whole team's fault. League players just like to blame the jungler.
> [{quoted}](name=Ebolol,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wdIOzLjE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-10-15T08:47:38.615+0000) > > Sven for some reason has become a punching bag for TSM fans to blame their team's losses on, but he's a solid jungler as a whole. TSM has such a high payroll, they can sign pretty much whoever, and they chose Sven because he dominated back on SK Gaming in Europe. Simply put: League is a team game, when there's a loss, it's the whole team's fault. League players just like to blame the jungler. I appreciate your comment and your concept. I still believe you're wrong. There's a difference between "blame the jungler" mentality and "that guy sucks" mentality. I point the finger at two players: Sven and Bjerg. Bjerg for being practically invisible through the entire series and Sven for ALWAYS being 10 seconds behind every play. A lot of people will blame Double for playing like trash, but at least he and biofrost were TRYING to make plays. Haunzter, Bio and Double showed up and attempted to do something...they got caught out, they lost lane, they got camped, etc. etc. but at least I remember what they did during the game and looked like they were trying. Sven played the uber winning style of show up into lane just as your laner dies so that you can jump in and die also. Bjerg...did he even play the game? I'm not sure...
: Really C9? Really?
All I have to say for all of NA. Go SKT.
: Really C9? Really?
AT LEAST this game they've changed up their draft. At minimum, this particular game shows some ability to adapt to a new meta. If they lose, they've still outdone TSM and IMT just through this draft.
: Yet again in 2017, C9 is NA's last hope
Ok, at LEAST C9 decided to switch up their tempo for this last game. Even if they lose this I'm happy that they've outdone both of the other NA teams by changing up their game.
: TSM had the easiest group they have ever been placed in in their International Career.
I don't expect Bjergsen to carry, I agree that Mid lane is semi-non-impactful these days. However you still have Oriana and Syndra who are both capable mid lane mages who are reasonable team-fighters. That said, I'm not asking for Bjergsen to Carry. I'm asking Bjergsen to be something more than a placeholder. He very much wasn't doing much of anything. He wasn't really feeding, but I also couldn't come up with a SINGLE Play in any of the games that revolved around Bjerg outplaying anyone or otherwise making any plays of note. I can come up with at least a few times Pobelter and Jensen have made some noteable plays...Bjerg was just invisible.
: Yet again in 2017, C9 is NA's last hope
No team DESERVES a tournament victory. It's something you need to earn...thus the definition of sport. I feel that of the NA teams C9 has the best chance because they've proven to be one of the more flexible NA teams. I feel the Longzhu has been playing their behinds off, as did RNG. There are several tier 2 teams that have shown they CAN play but are too inconsistent. -- EDG - Playing well today, terrible last week. -- Fanatic - Played well week 2, terrible week 1. -- Team WE - Played well through group stage, but terrible in play ins. -- Samsung - Too easily abusable apparently. They will likely take quarter finals match but if they face either of the Korean teams in Quarters they're done. I think if C9 does get out of groups (Debatable at this point) they're done in Quarters.
: TSM had the easiest group they have ever been placed in in their International Career.
I hope that wasn't directed at me, I haven't ever watched an EU game that NA wasn't playing in. I'm a Diehard NA fan but getting really tired of the same story every year. Oh look TSM goes first in Spring and 5 of 6th at MSI to lose NA a first seed at worlds. Oh look TSM goes first in Summer, gets literally the only group without a Korean team in it, and still can't make it out of worlds, being the ONLY loss to an 0-5 team that every caster was saying was TRASH through the entire worlds analysis. So bad their ENTIRE group came in to week 2 with "Hey, we know how to beat TSM", and all TSM could do game after game was beat their head against the same Pick and Ban wall with wonder in their eyes saying "Well, we know we got ROFLSTOMPED in the last game, LETS DO IT AGAIN!" Every year TSM Chokes when they leave NA shores. It's time someone else got a chance.
: C9 vs EDG (TSM vs FW) Version 2.0
Someone needs to let NA know that the "wait for 55 minutes and win" meta was over as of Last Sunday. The new meta for this week is "Stack AOE/CC/Engage and Dive Bot at 5 minutes"
: Want to know why NA never does well at worlds?
It's worse than that. It's not just Meta Slave and attempts to clone SKT that's the NA Team's problem. Apparently, NA has completely lost any ability to not only innovate and adapt, they've also all lost the ability to realize that their strategy has been completely figured out. TSM Just kept banging their heads over and over again into the same pick and ban saying "But...but...this has to work...it's the meta!"
passıon (NA)
: TSM deserve to go if they win the regional title. Whether or not they're showing up @ worlds, they're the champions of NA. Maybe next year they'll make it out
> [{quoted}](name=Màx,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wdIOzLjE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-15T03:04:35.579+0000) > > TSM deserve to go if they win the regional title. Whether or not they're showing up @ worlds, they're the champions of NA. Maybe next year they'll make it out http://dilbert.com/strip/1997-05-29 When you get a sense of pattern recognition let us know. You know what the definition of insanity is right?
: >a humble person usually improves because he knows that there is no such thing as "being the best" But there is such a thing as "being the best". Perfection rarely occurs, but there is almost always someone or something that is the best. And humility is not the driving force behind someone wanting to achieve success and improve. > a humble person usually stays focused on the tasks he undertakes ... Focus on a task has nothing to do with humility. >a humble person rarely clashes with the other people on your team, because is ego is not inflated Conflict does not come solely from an inflated ego. Nor is conflict always a bad thing within an organization. I've worked well with many arrogant people that I've personally dislike, because while we argued and disagreed, we were professional and worked together to succeed. >a humble person is more likely to understand priorities, aims and goals ... they usually work methodically and never aim at the stars, even if they do eventually get there Again, this has NOTHING to do with humility. And if you aren't setting your goals high, you will rarely fail, but you will never achieve greatness. A person that is willing to accept mediocrity is the exact sort of person I don't want in any organization I'm part of. >a humble person has the mentality of "I will try my best" and will indeed do so, but they will not go "this is our year, we are the best, we will not fail" and lose to a 0-5 team :p I want the people in my organization to believe they are going to succeed. Why would I ever want someone that goes, "We're going to be completely acceptable, but not great this year?" If you don't think you're the best, you never will be. Do you really think TSM would do better if they went, "Well, we weren't the worst team at Worlds this year, and that's okay."? >They can handle defeat, they are familiar with the concept of being bested or outsmarted, so when a crisis comes, a humble person will still be there trying their best, while a person with the "I am the best" mentality will CRUMBLE when he is faced with the fact that he is not nearly as good as he thought/believed. Again, not a matter of humility. It's a matter of a personal resolve and fortitude. Are there arrogant people that fall apart in the face of failure? Sure. But there are those that are driven by loss and failure, because they do believe they are better, and refuse to accept any less than being the best. There are plenty of people that are humble, that crumble in the face of adversity as well. >... if you do not know that, then you are probably not the best where it really counts Listen, I'm not saying arrogance makes for a good person. I'm not saying humility isn't a good thing. There are advantages to being humble. A big one is that people generally dislike arrogance. After all, no one likes being reminded that aren't as good as someone else. But sports and business aren't a popularity contest. The most beloved people don't automatically succeed. And if my goal is to win, that's the priority; Not making sure people like me when I do so, or cheer when I don't. There are positives to humility. And being completely devoid of it isn't good. Like I said, ego-maniacs that can't see beyond themselves are generally a problem. But being the best requires a certain level of arrogance as well, and I find that people vastly overvalue humility. If every member of TSM echoed Bjergson's comments, would it have changed anything? Would it get them into the top 8? More so, has Bjergson's humility gotten him out of groups? Of course not. You really want to tell me there aren't going to be any arrogant players playing next week? We've seen arrogant people succeed. So why is their arrogance not an issue, while TSM's is? Does TSM struggle because they are arrogant, or do they struggle because of greater issues and their arrogance just makes them unlikable, and foolish looking when they are found to be lacking?
> [{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EzEWrMMW,comment-id=001e00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-14T23:19:55.168+0000) > > But there is such a thing as "being the best". Perfection rarely occurs, but there is almost always someone or something that is the best. And humility is not the driving force behind someone wanting to achieve success and improve. > In League of Legends specifically, and in e-sports in general, if you are not born and living in South Korea, you have 0 right to call yourself the best at ANYTHING. If you are an NA player the best you can claim is that you're the least paste eating moron on the short bus. There is NO ONE on TSM or any other NA team who has any right to claim they are anything more than "pretty good" at the game. And there is NO ONE on TSM Specifically that can claim they're even decent... Go watch MSI and Worlds again and see if anyone on TSM actually holds up to their asinine over-inflated egos. While Bjerg is one of the more useless players on his team, at least he's not a cocksure blowhard.
Wráthful (EUNE)
: How bad doublelift realy is ?
About 10 seconds behind the enemy jungler. EVERY FRIGGEN GAME.
MysterQ (NA)
: Haunzter was still good imo. He got hardcamped and his jungler did nothing. Sven was a giant minion. I swear green smite would kill him. Bjerg? Why the hell is he still rated top10 ~~midlaner ~~ player in the world? He looks good in NA, but plays like a turtle. He can't trust his team and can't be unlocked. DoubleDefeat. :( sorry bro, least you aint WildTurtle? But at least Turtle can roleplay utility.... kind of Biofrost, tough lane bro.
> [{quoted}](name=MysterQ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=z3XhvEjG,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-14T10:43:02.932+0000) > > Haunzter was still good imo. He got hardcamped and his jungler did nothing. > Sven was a giant minion. I swear green smite would kill him. > > Bjerg? Why the hell is he still rated top10 ~~midlaner ~~ player in the world? He looks good in NA, but plays like a turtle. He can't trust his team and can't be unlocked. > > DoubleDefeat. :( sorry bro, least you aint WildTurtle? But at least Turtle can roleplay utility.... kind of > Biofrost, tough lane bro. This. So this. I kept watching every TSM game and wondering why it was Haunzter, Doubleift and Biofrost against a 5 man team? Bjerg might as well have been invisible, he was utterly useless and utterly and completely non-impactful in pretty much ANY game they played at worlds. And Sven? We came out of worlds last year talking about how BAD Sven was...and his team came out earlier this year saying "oh no, he's not bad, he just has to facecheck more because that's his job!" No, he's bad. Way bad. Replace Sven with a jungler that is in any way proactive at all and you MIGHT, JUST MIGHT, be able to not look like plat level players against the rest of the world. The best description of Sven I have seen yet: Haunzter gets 2 man ganked in top lane...Sevn starts making his way up and shows up...JUST as Haunzter gets killed...and goes in anyway. WAIT FOR ME GUYS! I'M COMING! I'M COMING!!!! SORRY HAUNZTER!!! REVENGE!!!! YOLO!!!! Wait....I died? Was that good Bjerg? Was I a good player Bjerg? Huh? Huh? DID YOU SEE ME!
: TSM had the easiest group they have ever been placed in in their International Career.
The thing about TSM at worlds this year: They had such a singular, one sided, one strategy comp that EVERY TEAM in their group knew EXACTLY how to beat them. "Hey guys, TSM Sucks...they are 16th of 16 teams in first bloods and first towers. Just play an early game comp and you will beat TSM." FLASH WOLVES - 0-5 Team, for Christ's sakes, figures out how to beat TSM by simply selecting an early game comp.
: TSM is a WASTE of a seed to go to worlds.
Every year. TSM Needs disbanded. I'm sincerely hoping that the switch to Bo1's sets TSM up to lose more so that potentially NA can actually make a showing internationally somehow. NA not trash, they just have the cock blocking TSM they can't get through because TSM plays great as a Bo5 Team.
: Go for it C9! Europe is cheering for you!
G2 != TSM. G2 can do something other than lose internationally.
: Yet again in 2017, C9 is NA's last hope
I know! Immortals kept picking late game scaling comps...and they left group as 4th. TSM kept picking late game scaling comps and got abused...and they left group as 3rd. I KNOW! LETS HAVE C9 PICK A LATE GAME SCALING COMP!!!!! NO ONE WILL SUSPECT THAT!!!!!! Fucking NA. Do you not WATCH ANYTHING?!?!?!?!?!? EARLY GAME IS ALL THATS WINNING RIGHT NOW. PICK EARLY GAME.
: Well, it IS a reversion, instead of an all-out out-of-the-blue change. Also, the main point I got from the Dive episode was that the primary impetus for said reversion was viewership of NA and even other regions, because of time investment to watch, etc. IMO, they've shown that they're actually looking at the data and making attempts, and if the teams themselves want Bo1's, let's give it time again before saying it's wrong? I can say from personal experience that depending on how the vods are posted, if I wanted to watch the games from the other stream (which this change is also getting rid of the 2-stream and unifying it) I would usually not even watch the first game if one is posted, because the outcome was blatant.
> [{quoted}](name=Anei Neko,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=fOxXOY5i,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-03T15:03:20.043+0000) > > Well, it IS a reversion, instead of an all-out out-of-the-blue change. Also, the main point I got from the Dive episode was that the primary impetus for said reversion was viewership of NA and even other regions, because of time investment to watch, etc. IMO, they've shown that they're actually looking at the data and making attempts, and if the teams themselves want Bo1's, let's give it time again before saying it's wrong? > I can say from personal experience that depending on how the vods are posted, if I wanted to watch the games from the other stream (which this change is also getting rid of the 2-stream and unifying it) I would usually not even watch the first game if one is posted, because the outcome was blatant. Yea, you'll note that I never said it was wrong, I said the data might point at some potential questions and issues surrounding the competitive integrity of a Bo1 Series. I am in agreement that there's not enough clearly pointing at this being a problem not to give it another try if the Owners, Players and Riot all are looking at this as a good thing. The biggest concern of course is turning League of Legends into something more akin to "pro" wrestling than pro basketball. I appreciate the "so define best for me" comment of the Riot guys during the conversation about this, but when teams that are in 5th come in 1st and teams that are 4th come in 9th there's some fairly huge swings there that make me worry about the sport itself being called into question. "Pro" wrestling has a following, so even "sports" that don't clearly define best and worst can get viewership and make money, but it would be kind of sad to have my choice of 'sport' be seen as more of a joke than a sport. There are other things that Bo1's call into question for me personally: no more reverse sweeps, no more strategizing on picks and bans, no more reacting to the play of a team...get it right the first time or lose. I feel like there's a depth of conversation lost here, and a severe reduction of strategy. On the flip side, this might be replaced with more dynamic picks and bans (more off the wall - Early FlyQuest style picks), less "meta play" and more "pick whatever you think works at the time", and potentially a more "solo queue" methodology when it comes to champion select and game strategy. This may not be a BAD game, but it definitely feels like a very DIFFERENT game. Time will tell.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=JUUygkqN,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-05-15T02:01:45.121+0000) > > They didn't stomp NA > > it took them 5 games to beat C9. They won by sheer luck of a nami bubble that was used. Lucky bubble? More like Jensen being a retard and not hitting flash like every other pro-player(except Wild Turtle) would do. It's not luck that Jensen's a moron. He had ult+zhonyas+flash all ready to go and decided dying in a fire with his pride was the better option. Whoops, his bad. Go home C9. You're drunk.
> [{quoted}](name=KazaLyn Shao,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=JUUygkqN,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2017-05-15T03:11:09.758+0000) > > Lucky bubble? More like Jensen being a retard and not hitting flash like every other pro-player(except Wild Turtle) would do. It's not luck that Jensen's a moron. He had ult+zhonyas+flash all ready to go and decided dying in a fire with his pride was the better option. Whoops, his bad. Go home C9. You're drunk. One of these days Jensen will realize he's actually a good player with a good record and a good team and not play like he's Bjerg's 10 year old Son "Like this daddy!?!?!?" Some of his "ME TOO! LOOK AT ME!!! I'M GOOD ALSO! PICK ME TO BE THE BEST" plays during LCS finals were just...cringe-worthy...and he IS a better player than that. Jensen's modus operandi is to hold his flash / cleanse until he feels he really needs it...it's won C9 matches and advantages many many times, but it's also cost them games. He is one of the better skill shot dodgers in NA, but he also tends to rely upon that skill way to much. This particular time it cost C9 the tournament.
: Turtle if you are not going to use it, take barrier, not heal
Hauntzer isn't showing massive skill either. He's had some amazing carry performances and some REALLY REALLY terrible ones as well...mostly the latter in this tournament. Bjerg is being bjerg: he's not feeding and he's not making awesome plays. He's a fine Midlaner, arguably the best NA has, but he plays pretty passive and has never shown massive mechanics or massive leadership skills. His strength is in the Team Fight phase...he's admittedly an awesome team player...unfortunately LOL is about the first 10 - 15 minutes of play in most cases. By the time your team is 6 - 1 and down 2 turrets the game is pretty much in the FF @ 20 phase...especially against international talent.
: More like Throw Some More, amirite???
: Why is everyone so surprised? No NA team in the history of the sport has ever put on a good show on the international stage. Everyone's like, "ZOMG C9 SOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER ON INTERNATIONAL THAN TSM!" By what? Like 2 games? They don't clear group stage either. They do a tiny bit better, admittedly, but then they follow the NA doctrine of sucking ass at literally everything and go home crying to solo queue. North America will NEVER make an impact at this game on the international stage. It is not physically possible. The mentality, discipline, and willingness just to stack all the best players on one team instead of spreading them out across a 5 stupid organizations that all disappoint equally just isn't there. Delete TSM, C9, CLG, and all other NA organizations. Fire 98% of the player populate. Keep the top 8, put them on a team. Run just 1. Or go home crying to group queue year after year. Guess which option NA will pcik?
> [{quoted}](name=KazaLyn Shao,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=kb8etIYk,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-15T01:21:04.296+0000) > > Why is everyone so surprised? No NA team in the history of the sport has ever put on a good show on the international stage. Everyone's like, "ZOMG C9 SOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER ON INTERNATIONAL THAN TSM!" By what? Like 2 games? They don't clear group stage either. They do a tiny bit better, admittedly, but then they follow the NA doctrine of sucking ass at literally everything and go home crying to solo queue. North America will NEVER make an impact at this game on the international stage. It is not physically possible. The mentality, discipline, and willingness just to stack all the best players on one team instead of spreading them out across a 5 stupid organizations that all disappoint equally just isn't there. Delete TSM, C9, CLG, and all other NA organizations. Fire 98% of the player populate. Keep the top 8, put them on a team. Run just 1. Or go home crying to group queue year after year. Guess which option NA will pcik? You are aware that C9 cleared group stage at worlds last year right? Not to detract from your point (which has merit) but suggesting that no NA team clears group queue is ridiculous. As a second issue with your statement: Maybe we should just delete all teams internationally, put the top 5 players from each region on a single team, and run worlds for a week each year and call ourselves a sport? Perhaps maybe we should just reduce professional LoL Play down to, say, the top 30 players internationally and let them all circle jerk each other for a couple hours. I appreciate the frustration at NA being unable to perform...I think most of us here feel the same way...but that's an issue with NA, not with the fact that there's 10 teams. The biggest problem with NA is we have no team that excels at coming out strong in a single game that also plays strong consistently enough through a match that it matters. C9 and CLG are both CONSISTENTLY stronger game 1 of a match than TSM is...which is why they do much better than TSM in international tournaments. HOWEVER TSM is a stronger MATCH player than either of those teams...which is why they always win LCS since the entire LCS is a Bo3/Bo5 tournament. Were LCS to be held as a Bo1 Tournament TSM would have come in toward the bottom of the pack based upon their record (50% loss game 1 through the LCS). And here's a hint: Putting the 5 best NA players on one team would not work out how you'd think.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=KazaLyn Shao,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qGZ1IATR,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-05-15T03:19:05.334+0000) > > Yes, C9 and CLG tend to do a tiny bit better internationally, but that's like saying they come in 2 places ahead in the special olympics. That doesn't change the fact that all NA teams are retards. You made the claim that NA never shows up on the international stage and I provided some examples that prove otherwise, with MSI 2016 being a big example there. We all know that Korea is the strongest region in the world but the fact remains that NA has shown up on the international stage in the past. If you want to keep thinking that NA will never amount to anything that's fine, just as I am free to disagree with that mind-set. All I can say is don't look solely at TSMs performance to judge NA as a whole when it comes to international events.
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qGZ1IATR,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-15T03:31:10.622+0000) > > You made the claim that NA never shows up on the international stage and I provided some examples that prove otherwise, with MSI 2016 being a big example there. We all know that Korea is the strongest region in the world but the fact remains that NA has shown up on the international stage in the past. > > If you want to keep thinking that NA will never amount to anything that's fine, just as I am free to disagree with that mind-set. All I can say is don't look solely at TSMs performance to judge NA as a whole when it comes to international events. The problem with that statement is that TSM is arguably the strongest NA team. CLG and C9 BOTH are much more competitive teams internationally, and I would even argue FlyQuest and P1 as better suited than TSM for the kind of tournament play international tournaments provide (BO1's) and none of them suffer from the TSM inability to win cold against an opponent, but because TSM is the strongest MATCH team in NA they will always have the opportunity to flub spectacularly in an international event. So there's something to the statement that "NA will never amount to anything" because until a team in NA can prove to be BOTH great at winning Game 1's AND great at winning Matches (and none of our teams appears to be able to do that) TSM will continue to represent NA as the south bound end of a north bound horse every time they show themselves on the international stage.
: Starting to hate TSM.
TSM had a 50% win/loss rate on their first game @ LCS. I don't know why anyone believes they'd be "ok" in a "group stage" setup. In the last 4 weeks of LCS TSM only won their first game twice. They're a fine team if they can get on stage, get the first game (loss) under themselves, learn how and what their opponents are doing and then use the other games to re-strategize and beat them. However, in an international tournament where you have "group stage" double round robin play, TSM will never excel, that's not the kind of team they are or will ever be. Flyquest and P1 are both MUCH stronger in that regard (though worse teams overall) and I feel C9 and CLG both at least have the POTENTIAL not to flop coming in cold against an opponent. TSM's issue is either they have to take a loss to get over their over inflated egos or they forget how to play LoL match to match. Either way, if NA's ever going to see REAL competitive international play we need to start promoting teams who are better at Bo1's and less of teams that only get good after their first loss.
: Road to Pre-Season: Gameplay Systems Update
These patch notes are always speaking of choices and players get to pick and all that, but that's simply not possible. Numerically there will always be a "best". A best route that's faster, gets you more experience, or for which you take less damage. Expanding upon that there's always going to be a champion that does it better than another. There will always be a "best" item assuming an edge case isn't in play. It's all about numbers, and no matter how "touchy feely" we'd all like to think this is, there's nothing touchy feely about it. 5 additional AD on a build is an advantage, clearing the jungle with 10 more HP using one route than another is an advantage. There is a LOT of situational benefits you can get out of a game based around game play, but players will NEVER be able to choose an item that "feels right". There's no "feeling" involved...and if you're playing at the top of your game there never will be. There's just no situation where I'm going to say "well, the game stands as thus and this item is the best I can take right now, but...I just FEEL more attuned to this other item, so I'll take that instead..." There's a name for people who do that... Trolls.
Dereq (NA)
: A SOLUTION FOR BOTS IN YOUR GAME
Yea, I got the same message for a post I made earlier this evening also. Played an ARAM game with a bot who's name was "Rito Cares A Lot". Even took a screen shot of it as it was so utterly hilarious and ironic. Talk about irony. But apparently the boards aren't the right place to bring up the fact that that ARAM game had 3 live players in it (7 Bots) and my game last night the ENTIRE other team was bots...not a single human player in the game except for on our team...which had either 1 or 2 bots on it. I'm assuming this is just too public a place to mention that either their game is losing so many players that bots have to be subbed in, or that their account controls are so ridiculously poor that they can't do anything about them. Either way, you're not the only one having posts removed for pointing out a glaring problem with their game.
: So this happened.
I love how the first comment to a post about finally getting a troll punished... Is someone complaining about people reporting toxic ass holes who ruin the game for everyone who plays it. To the OP: Well done sir. One jack ass at a time I guess. To the First Poster: Well done sir, you've shown me that my dislike for most of humanity is well placed.
Darksyde (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CrazFight,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YR59JudL,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T06:06:11.552+0000) > > Custom skins are allowed, but you aren't allowed to use creations that riot has used. I mean just because you can see it doesn't mean its ok, many times people buy skins just for themselves because looking at normal udyr compared to his ultimate is much more appealing. Do you have a source where Riot has ever confirmed that you can't use their "creations" as custom skins? What if someone made a skin that looks just like a Riot skin but only slightly different. Would that count? This seems kinda fishy and I feel like you just made it up because it makes sense to you. And yes if he's the only one who sees it then it does make it okay. That's the entire point of custom skins. No one else can see it so it doesn't affect the game for anyone else. You can make your character batman or darth vader (yes those are real skins that exist) and it's fine because no one else can see it.
> [{quoted}](name=Darksyde,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YR59JudL,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T06:11:33.076+0000) > > Do you have a source where Riot has ever confirmed that you can't use their "creations" as custom skins? What if someone made a skin that looks just like a Riot skin but only slightly different. Would that count? This seems kinda fishy and I feel like you just made it up because it makes sense to you. And yes if he's the only one who sees it then it does make it okay. That's the entire point of custom skins. No one else can see it so it doesn't affect the game for anyone else. You can make your character batman or darth vader (yes those are real skins that exist) and it's fine because no one else can see it. It's called intellectual property. You can't steal someone else's work, and you can't reproduce someone else's work. If you were to re-write Harry Potter from memory you can be sued. If you were to write "Harvey Pointer" a child warlock who used a magic pencil to cast spells with his two best friends Rod and Harmony you'd be sued also. Yes, there's reason to ban for installing something that modifies the game to provide you access to stuff you haven't purchased. And while making your character Batman or Darth Vader actually is LESS egregious, running around in Udir's Ultimate Skin may just be considered damaging to Riot...especially if you don't already own it...whether anyone else can see it or not is immaterial. At the end of the day, though, the ban has nothing to do with what skin you had on your character. You used a program to modify the game and it was detected. You're done. Spend the 15 minutes to set up another account and keep going...the botters seem to be able to do it all day long so there shouldn't be anything stopping you...
: > [{quoted}](name=Illydth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VJFZ6kHa,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-24T08:06:18.090+0000) > > @Deep 2 of 2 ARAM games tonight were 3 of 10 bots in game 1 and 4 of 10 were bots in game two. > > Yes, it's not unlikely, it's prevalent. 9/10 games DO have bots in them at this point. > > --Doug Can confirm. It isn't any harder to find out for yourself than to make a new account and level it up, try some ARAMs at level 10... Have fun playing with all those bots.
> [{quoted}](name=zSkeletoRz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VJFZ6kHa,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-06-24T14:53:04.248+0000) > > Can confirm. It isn't any harder to find out for yourself than to make a new account and level it up, try some ARAMs at level 10... Have fun playing with all those bots. And to qualify something: I'm currently Bronze 1, having just completed my first set of promos. I've been level 30 for somewhere going on a year now. I have 49 Friendlies, 12 Helpfuls, 119 Teamworks, and 90 Honorables. I have 3 level 5's and multiple level 4s, my account is probably a year and a half old, possibly 2 years. Do I have a bad MMR? Maybe. Is this because I bought the account or i'm a new player? No. BOTS are being paired up REGULARLY and CONSISTENTLY. Yes, they're bots...no they're not just "bad players." When Olaf continually tower dives 5 players over and over and over and over and over again in the same game, he's not a BAD PLAYER, he's a bot...especially with no keystone, no chat, and buying some of the most ridiculous items ever. Please stop trying to justify or otherwise reason this out. There are BOTS in ARAM (I don't know much about the other game modes, certainly not as persistent), they've gotten worse over the last 3 weeks, and they've utterly Ruined the ARAM experience... If you do not believe me, go try it yourself.
Illydth (NA)
: Open Letter Re: Bots in ARAM and Leaving Game
No idea what my MMR is, I'm Bronze 1, so it can't be THAT bad.
: You do realize that asking for everyone to be polite and nice to each other over the internet is an unrealistic expectation?
> [{quoted}](name=Freelo Janna,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PcPKuc2V,comment-id=004900000000,timestamp=2016-06-25T00:24:14.666+0000) > > You do realize that asking for everyone to be polite and nice to each other over the internet is an unrealistic expectation? OF COURSE It's an unrealistic expectation. As is telling teenage kids not to have sex. As is telling highschoolers not to drink. But you ONLY have 2 options. You can be against it or you can be for it. Standing aside and saying "Doesn't matter" is being for it. You either punish it, or you condone it. And why is this unrealistic? At your local high school football game, what's the last thing that happens after the game is over with? The teams line up and shake hands at the end of the match. When was the last time you saw or heard of someone in the lineup crowing GG EZ, we PWNED YOU! Why is it unrealistic to ask for people to treat interactions over the internet the same as treating interactions in real life? Do you talk to your mom or your dad or your team mates or your class mates or your teachers or your bosses this way? Is it acceptable to Ace a test and yell out to the rest of the class "GG EZ beat you all morons!" It's ONLY acceptable because there's no repercussions for it. It's ONLY acceptable because sitting behind your computer screen you're anonymous....because no one is there to beat the hell out of you for being a douche like would happen if you tried this in a real public setting. It's how you act when no one is looking over your shoulder that determines who you are...really are...as a person. Honestly people believing that treating others like crap is OK and great fun and this is all in the spirit of competitive play makes my skin crawl. When you hear someone decry the state of humanity and how they hate the general public...they mean you.
: if you think you should get banned for saying "GGEZ" then you are really a thin skinned person.
> [{quoted}](name=Noremac,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PcPKuc2V,comment-id=0064,timestamp=2016-06-24T15:12:17.457+0000) > > if you think you should get banned for saying "GGEZ" then you are really a thin skinned person. No, just someone who decries the degradation of society, the loss of human civility, and the lack of morals of the general internet population. Just a person who'd prefer not to turn a good game into the armpit of the internet like so many other places and games on the net today. Perhaps you miss the point that it has nothing to do with taking offence and everything to do with just generally being a good person. If I say "GGEZ" and no one takes offence to it, that still doesn't make it OK. if I call a black person the N word, or a Mexican a Wetback or any other racial slur, just because that person doesn't take offence to it doesn't make it right. Using a racial slur still makes you a Biggot and saying GG EZ still makes you a dick...you're not less of a dick just because no one took offence to it. In any case, it's still treating other people like crap...and it should be a bannable offence. I'll repost this from earlier in the thread: "The theory is that, if people resolved to care less, then they would be happier. I often refer to this as “Argument from Stoicism” and I think it is a fairly weak philosophy because it places the burden on the person being expected to endure the behavior rather than the person exhibiting the behavior. “You should be able to handle it” is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair."
: It shouldn't be report worthy. Its a part of the game and just a way people like to gloat. You see people saying "you won't mate" and "cuck" because the words that previously held that sentiment were considered unsportsmanlike. Might as well ban the whole language since this sentiment will continue to exist in one phrase or another. Personally I think people need to grow a thicker skin if they want to play a game that was considered highly competitive. I don't condone excess swearing, insults, and racial slurs though, since that's completely different problem that should be and is reportable.
> [{quoted}](name=MistakenKing,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PcPKuc2V,comment-id=0040,timestamp=2016-06-24T06:41:43.940+0000) > > It shouldn't be report worthy. Its a part of the game and just a way people like to gloat. You see people saying "you won't mate" and "cuck" because the words that previously held that sentiment were considered unsportsmanlike. Might as well ban the whole language since this sentiment will continue to exist in one phrase or another. Personally I think people need to grow a thicker skin if they want to play a game that was considered highly competitive. I don't condone excess swearing, insults, and racial slurs though, since that's completely different problem that should be and is reportable. And this is exactly my problem with this entire genra. At what point in your life did you...PERSONALLY...equate Competitive with being a Jack ass? At what point did competitive become "be a douche"? Personally, I thought parents taught their kids to be good sportsmen, to win graciously, and lose with honor? Good game, well played, shake hands...these are things I teach my children about competitiveness. The one time I saw my 13 year old (at the time) type GG EZ into chat he got himself a 2 week ban...from his entire computer...not just league. When did "competitive" become a synonym for over inflated ego? Dogs engage in pissing matches with each other, human beings are supposed to be above that. What event in your life lead you to believe that being competitive meant you should put down your opponents and believe you were above them...even if you're better than them? Is the only way for you to feel you've accomplished something to put someone else down? What else is GG EZ than a way to tell someone they're horrible and you're better than them? To tell them they're inferior to you? Ban every use of GG EZ, then when the next catch phraise comes up, ban everyone who uses that one also. Your language and the way you treat people have meaning...and consequence. I pray that some day every leaguer that uses GG EZ gets involved in something not anonymous, and gives that kind of attitude to someone in real life. When they pick themselves up off the ground and try to figure out where their teeth are, maybe they'll learn that the only place in the WORLD where it's deemed APPROPRIATE to be a dick bag when you are winning is the anonymity of the internet.
: I concur, "ez" didn't even use to be a bannable offense way back when until Riot created a stance on it. Now people are just nitpicking to get more and more things to be "bannable offenses". My friend is level 187 in Overwatch, and he ends every win with "GG Easy game" just to see if Blizzard does anything to punish saying that, no one's even complained about him saying it. I'm not condoning it, but the difference in how one company spoonfeeds its playerbase compared to the other is definitely there.
> [{quoted}](name=EndlessCycle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PcPKuc2V,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-06-24T06:19:25.267+0000) > > I concur, "ez" didn't even use to be a bannable offense way back when until Riot created a stance on it. Now people are just nitpicking to get more and more things to be "bannable offenses". My friend is level 187 in Overwatch, and he ends every win with "GG Easy game" just to see if Blizzard does anything to punish saying that, no one's even complained about him saying it. I'm not condoning it, but the difference in how one company spoonfeeds its playerbase compared to the other is definitely there. ... You're aware Overwatch has no reporting system right? If your friend ends every game with GG EZ I hope to God Bliz implements a ban system and he's first in line.
DRE13001 (NA)
: Actually riot doesnt have some fancy way to find out if youre hacking, its not some magical algorithm, they created that sentance which they copy paste on every support ticket to shut people up. Think about it, the game has no replays so they cant look into that, the only way they can find out is if something external interacts with the game. So if you're using scripts, lolreplay, skins or anything that interacts with the game or changes its files their bot will find it and detect them all as the same thing, something that shouldnt be there. Since theres no way for riot to tell apart hackers from non hackers they would rather blame everyone then potentially unban a scripter... So all they can do is give you some bs reply like, I personally looked into this or something similar, there is no way to look into this... They cant watch your matches and they cant scan your computer for exact hacking tools, so they might as well keep saying youre a hacker until you give up... Same thing happened to me, riot is too stubborn to give up so unless they suddenly change a lot of people will not get their acc back and a similar thing will happen in the future
> [{quoted}](name=DRE13001,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lh233XVH,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-06-24T08:00:23.968+0000) > > Actually riot doesnt have some fancy way to find out if youre hacking, its not some magical algorithm, they created that sentance which they copy paste on every support ticket to shut people up. Think about it, the game has no replays so they cant look into that, the only way they can find out is if something external interacts with the game. > So if you're using scripts, lolreplay, skins or anything that interacts with the game or changes its files their bot will find it and detect them all as the same thing, something that shouldnt be there. Since theres no way for riot to tell apart hackers from non hackers they would rather blame everyone then potentially unban a scripter... > So all they can do is give you some bs reply like, I personally looked into this or something similar, there is no way to look into this... They cant watch your matches and they cant scan your computer for exact hacking tools, so they might as well keep saying youre a hacker until you give up... > Same thing happened to me, riot is too stubborn to give up so unless they suddenly change a lot of people will not get their acc back and a similar thing will happen in the future ... "and they cant scan your computer for exact hacking tools, so they might as well keep saying youre a hacker until you give up..." Ey? Do your research dude. MMO's have been scanning people's computers for 3rd party tools since Everquest. Yea, it's not only possible, it's common.
: Leveling BOTS are ruining this game.
@Deep 2 of 2 ARAM games tonight were 3 of 10 bots in game 1 and 4 of 10 were bots in game two. Yes, it's not unlikely, it's prevalent. 9/10 games DO have bots in them at this point. --Doug
: Do reports add up? 1 of many valid reports actually led to punishment
Trashy kids using stupid words need to learn that they are responsible for their actions and that society does not approve of the use of "stupid words", whether or not they were used with an intent to hurt or insult. NOT having a working system by which players can be reported for and consistently punished for these kinds of idiocies is tantamount to teaching them their actions have no consequences. It is important that online games have the ability to report and punish offenders for "stupid words" and ignorant behaviors...for some kids it is the only brush with responsibility they're going to have before they are thrown out into the wider world.
Rioter Comments
Illydth (NA)
: Graves Changes....what am I missing....
TY For the responses. My son was rather distraught over the changes to Graves (one of his favored ADC's) and while looking at trying to argue that Graves wasn't as bad as all that I realized I couldn't argue with him from what I was reading...that's what prompted my post. Actually it sounds pretty good at this point.
Rioter Comments
: gee golly jeepers I sure can't wait to play support Lulu with no mana pots.
^^^ This. Mana pots only allow mage types to sustain slightly longer against these kinds of champions till they're forced to back...they somewhat ease the disparity. Even now with mana potions the best you can hope for is an even loss in lane (backing at the same point a forced off lane zed is). If you don't manage to push them off lane, you back to disparity in CS and wave push. As an evenly matched mana champion against a non-mana champion there WAS one way to get the upper hand in lane: If you could do more damage to your lane opponent than they could heal with their small number of health pots, you could gain a lane / CS advantage. The loss of mana potions makes this forumla almost moot. Whereas Zed can purchase health potions and have an infinite mana supply, with enough damage to cause a lot of pain, a Mid-lane mage (for example) cannot continue increasing their mana to keep up with Zed's sustain in HP. Without mana a Mid-lane mage folds and gets manhandled by Zed's damage. What this means is Zed buys health potions and then waits. The best the mid-lane mage can hope for is to play a passive farm lane till they run out of mana, get pushed off lane by Zed going aggressive, and then get wave pushed/lose CS to Zed's continued sustain while they have to back. Of course the better play is for an aggressive Zed to force mana usage (though zoning of the Mid-lane Mage off Farm through the use of sustainable active damage) to force the Mid-lane mage to play fast and loose with their mana...requiring them to back MUCH more frequently or fall prey to a medium health / full energy zed going all in on the mostly healed but out of mana mage for at best a very one sided trade. While I admit this is a pessimistic view without seeing how it plays out in game, I see very little way for a mana intensive champion (any mid-lane mage) to do anything but fail miserably in lane against a character like Yas or Zed. It doesn't appear to be a matter of whether you will or won't lose lane, but a matter of the degree of how badly you lose lane. AT BEST this seems to be a snowball opportunity for the enemy mid-lane champion every game you step foot into mid lane with a mana champion. Next, lets take a support like Sona or Soraka. They've got sustain in lane with a heal and by using mana potions and heal abilities, you effectively create a 3 way lane type: Kill Lane, Poke Lane, and Sustain Lane. By removing mana regen ability from healing Supports you effectively remove Sustain Lanes from the game and the bot lane triangle folds...Kill lanes fold to Poke Lanes and there is no sustain lane to stop the poke lane. Whlie Soraka or Sona is currently a great pick against a Caitlyn or Tristana bot lane comp, eventually it becomes as easy as going in on the ADC once or twice with your superior damage to push the support off lane and provide you either a free kill on the ADC or a free bot lane tower. Even currently the most effective way to beat a bot lane with a Sona Support is to focus the Sona support...Sona's squishy nature followed by her one trick pony/long cast time spells makes her a fairly easy target for an aggressive bot-lane comp. WIthout mana pots, this becomes even easier, focus fire Sona a few times and you force her to blow heal spells early, suck up all her mana quickly, and be either useless for an engage or to back and leave her ADC hanging and lose out on gold herself. Healing/sustain supports are already having a hard enough time being bullied off lane by tanky "hook" supports like Blitz, Naut or Thresh. Removing healing support's ability to regain mana to continue healing does nothing for the game except forces them to back twice as often, leaving their ADC's vulnerable for far longer periods of time and forcing less and less ability to play what is already considered the worst role in LoL. I do not understand the need to reduce the overall ability to sustain by almost all champions and completely REMOVING the ability to sustain by a limited set of others. The stated goal for removing mana potions was to eliminate the (assumeably) unfair benefits to the "some champions" that found them useful...under the auspices that items useful only to some champions somehow give those champions more power or are "unfair" in some way. What you seem to be ignoring is that there are a whole set of champions that were given abilities based DIRECTLY around the fact that these "unfair" advantages existed in the game. Mid lane Zed and Yas stand up to mid lane Annie or Vel'Koz specifically because they use energy and not mana which is balanced by the fact that Vel and Annie could use mana potions to keep themselves in killing shape for longer periods of time...the result was a skilled match-up of chicken in lane, make a mistake and generally Vel or Anne or Zed or Yas had the energy or mana available to take advantage of the mistake. Instead, now, an aggressive Zed can force extreme mana usage by an enemy Vel, heal that damage with a limited set of mana potions, and then take advantage of the mana drought either with extended uncontested CS farming or a guaranteed/no risk all in for the kill. I might be convinced this wasn't a problem if I saw something on the Mage side that gave them the same ability. I've played many, many games in LoL, I don't think I've EVER heard the words "God, potions are just too powerful..." I have to wonder if you're not "fixing" something that really has no need to be fixed. This has the "Major League Baseball" feel of "Players just aren't scoring enough points so the game is boring"...it has the feel to it that you want more 20/0 snowball lanes and less 2/2 vs. 3/1 lanes by the end of 15 minutes of play.
Rioter Comments
: Do you think these features will restrict freedom of speech and further suppress the more vocal community? Considering anyone can mute a player in a few seconds why so much resources is being allocated to ban players for merely saying words. I think saying racist or sexist things should be frowned upon but punishing players for trash talking is crazy. What about a checkbox that a player can check on whether or not they want it, like the old XBOX matchmaking where players would be matched based on their personality. 1.Underground 2.Professional 3.Family
As a reminder, muting someone during a match is a ridiculously bad suggestion. "During a team game, lets make sure that at least one of us cannot communicate with at least one other player on the team. That way we're SURE to miss out on important information happening during the game. PROFIT!"
BompaLD6 (NA)
: If they feel put down they should mute the other players. Seems like a far better solution to me. Everybody is such a victim these days.
So you believe it is indeed a strong, healthy, well developed player community which believes not only that ostracizing other players is acceptable, but too if they don't like being ostracized, they should just self exclude? If it's not blatantly obvious at this point what the problem with LoL is, and the reasons for this (not far enough) measure to be taken...you should re-read your comment and mine.
Basilysk (EUW)
: WOW WOW WOW if this goes through...... i'll keep joking with friends and random happy strangers that understand jokes, there are a lot of friendly ppl with whom you can joke, but hey i'll get banned for a joke, what a great system you built, punish the bad guys and punish the happy and funny guys, together we can build a community of bland robots, every game will be like, HI GL HF, Dragon 2467, draven no flash, *ping* *ping* ggwp... "hey wanna duo?" "let me oil my joints first" cuz there's always that 1 emo wrist-cutter that takes every joke like an insult to how sad his/her life is.. But hey! Computers doing work, less payed workers #evolution
* The community is toxic. * Riot is losing players to that toxicity. * New games are coming out that will directly compete with LoL. This system has gotten to the point of how YOU (and others) built it Mr. "Emo wrist-cutter". The community didn't want this kind of thing to happen? Maybe it should have auto-corrected itself years ago. The community has proven itself incapable of correcting itself because the game is played mostly by teenagers, many of which do not have the capacity for adult self-control...they are, after all, teenagers...and not adults. Your "happy funny" is not everyone's happy funny my friend.
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Illydth

Level 45 (NA)
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