Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=ImThatJGuy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rwPaFmw1,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-11-06T16:48:02.603+0000) > > Not to burst your bubble, but I only see one troll in all your ranked solo queue matches, being that jungle teemo. Otherwise the builds and champion picks seem normal, and the scores don't indicate intentional feeding, just players having bad matches. Not to mention, in almost all your games, you have some of the worst kda on your team. I'm sorry, WHAT? LOL? my scores with games with moderate feeders/trolls: 3/5/14 2/3/14 2/4/21 5/3/22 3/4/14 4/4/22 My scores with serious trolls, afkers, causing me to get absolutely STOMPED on by the enemy team, trying to save my own team: 3/6/4 1/4/3 2/8/10 0/4/8 All with great vision score. You clearly have NO idea what a support goes through. And trolls don't just pick a troll champ in a lane they aren't supposed to. Trolling happens in many different ways. For example, the last ranked match I played, my ez didn't get kills until the end of the game -- clean up kills, and his cs was 125. I literally caught up to him in cs, just defending our base after our inhib was taken down. And see 4/11/0 garen? He fed Jax, and caused Jax to go 17/1/4 making me a 1 shot the duration of the game. How about the game before. Jhin looks normal right? His score being 6/4/15. Now let's dig a little deeper. The laning phase bot lane, Jhin had about 1/3 the cs the enemy team cs had. jhin kept walking back to our turett and standing completely still, and then apologizing for being too "high" to play, and his "girl" was giving him drama. Cool Jhin. So while this went on, I was left to face a thresh and Kai'sa for the first 10 minutes of the game. Then Jhin proceeded to get clean up kills/assists from the mid-end game. Now let's look at my worst score, the 0/4/8. Did you bother to see the mid yasou that went 2/11/4? As well as the top Sion who went 1/9/8? When my teammates feed early, non stop, there is literally NOTHING I can do once the enemy champion gets fed. The other teams rammus went 13/1/7 from getting fed so early, and then obliterated bot lane. Straight up turret dived us repeatedly. My point is, in almost every one of my matches I have a great vision score, I performed great, but was punished by a teammate that was either feeding, trolling, or afk. You can't possibly just look at my K/D/A and assume I was bad, ESPECIALLY when I was the support, in every single game. Thank you, and GOODBYE.
The intention wasn't to upset you. I think you need to be more understanding of when people are having a hard game. Feeding does not automatically equal "inting." And I can't tell that Jhin was "high" just by looking at your match history, which you asked us to do. Support is my secondary, so I do understand that supports get higher deaths during losses than normal, but if you just focused on yourself and were more empathetic towards others, you'll find that you improve more and that you will not be as angry. In general, if you give people the benefit of the doubt, you'll be less bitter. The only way I can not see you at least understanding a little of what I'm saying is if you've never had a game where you just get absolutely wrecked, regardless of whether you stay under tower, etc. Anyway, I'll get out of your hair. Peace.
: Trolls in ranked is enough to make me want to quit.
Not to burst your bubble, but I only see one troll in all your ranked solo queue matches, being that jungle teemo. Otherwise the builds and champion picks seem normal, and the scores don't indicate intentional feeding, just players having bad matches. Not to mention, in almost all your games, you have some of the worst kda on your team.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
TehNACHO (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Takashi Suzuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6afsnwEE,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-20T21:12:47.658+0000) > > I realize that a lot of people are happy with the meta at the moment, and I am too. However, I think when things on the high-level are good, I hope that we can start focusing on the low-level problems. The problem I'd like to discuss are champions having/lacking strengths/weaknesses. > > There are a few notable problem-children in this regard. Veigar has generally low AP ratios for being a burst mage because he gains a lot of AP. When you make his AP Ratios low to compensate for having high AP, then really you may as well have just given him normal AP ratios and removed the gimmick. Cassiopeia is in the same boat. I'd just like to point out that the High bonus AP-Low Ratio gimmick is actually a means of balancing a champion on time or other elements outside of the items you've bought. Example: If an AP Champion with regular ratios goes from 0 AP to 120 AP, it would be a way sharper power curve than a champion with 60 AP going to 180 AP with a lower ratio. Maybe the end result is the same, but in the path to getting there, the power curve is much smoother. Now this concept makes no sense on Veigar, a burst mage, a type of champion that's almost defined by when they spike, but this concept of smoothening out the power curve makes perfect sense for an AP Markswoman like Cassiopeia > [{quoted}](name=Takashi Suzuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6afsnwEE,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-20T21:12:47.658+0000) > > Sion has terrible base-HP for a tank to compensate for him gaining HP. With cinderhulk, this artificially makes his HP seem reasonable. But overall, if you're going to give him bad HP and HP per level to compensate for an ability of his, you may as well have just given him normal HP and removed the gimmick. I should also note that Nasus is in the same boat. You want to know the funny thing about Infinitely Scaling stats? They tend to reach their power spikes in the mid game, not the late game. No, really. This makes a ton more sense with Sion even once you realize [this](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/Pwt6QNfw-can-we-accept-this-basic-truth). His infinitely scaling stat is countered in the late game because ADCs and other DPS Carries tend to rule the late game, shredding through tanks with ease. Unless the game has gone for waaaay too long and Sion has farmed continuously throughout, Sion's power curve (in terms of relative health to other tanks) resembles more of a bell curve. What I want to point out is instead of giving him a normal curve compared to many other tanks, Sion's mechanic goes way out of his way to force him to scale on time (how much CS/minute he can get) and reach a power curve unique to other tanks. > [{quoted}](name=Takashi Suzuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6afsnwEE,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-20T21:12:47.658+0000) > > I hate Yasuo with a passion, but I think he's in an okay-ish spot because he has his strength (high-damage, high-mobility) and his weakness (terribly squishy). Although, Yasuo isn't the greatest example because he has a free shield in his passive to compensate his squishiness. Personally, I always thought Yasuo's problem was his Critical Chance passive. He's designed as a melee carry, a late game DPS class, but his Critical Strike passive is designed for mid game burst. Where there should be clear moments of strengths and weaknesses in Yasuo's power curve is his passive messing with that balance. It's not that I disagree with you on all these points, but you have to realize that some of these gimmicks have a purpose. Smoothening the power curve, completely changing it, or covering up a power curve, and as obvious as this might sound in retrospect: Different numbers tend do different things. I like Sion and Cassiopeia having different power curves compared to other champions, even among their own kind, because that makes them strategically different from other champions. I know when certain power curves are just not healthy, like Yasuo's Assassin power curve on his Melee Carry kit. Figuring out the purpose of these gimmicks can go a long way to painting the context to this discussion.
First of all, thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread in such a thoughtful way. I hope you don't mind if I do my best to rebut a few things, keeping in mind that I don't disagree with you entirely. I can see the difference in smoothing the powercurve for a dps mage like Cassiopeia and a burst mage like Veigar. However, in these two's cases, I'd argue that the power spike is much later than you're letting on. Unfortunately I don't have the exact links to threads on Cassiopeia, but much math has been done between new and old Cass, and the adding of the gimmick had something crazy like 300 additional AP required to break even with old Cass who had no such gimmick. Here's a link, though it may be outdated: [](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4883255) > I should also note that Nasus is in the same boat. The reason I didn't mention Nasus is because his strength is actually a strength as opposed to the other infinite scalers. His scaling actually isn't compensated by having some terrible base damage on his Q. His Q actually is close to in-line with other on-hit abilities in terms of base damage. Don't believe me? Talon's Q's base damage only has 10 - 50 more base damage (from the bleed), Rengar only has more base damage when his Q's empowered, Poppy's Q has 10 - 50 LESS base damage. Meaning, his scaling is all gravy, and therefore an actual strength. > What I want to point out is instead of giving him a normal curve compared to many other tanks, Sion's mechanic goes way out of his way to force him to scale on time (how much CS/minute he can get) and reach a power curve unique to other tanks. I disagree on how different Sion is from other tanks. Thanks them stunting his regular HP growth, he actually has his HP grow in a curve much similar to other tanks, with the only differences being in the late game once he's gotten past the threshold required to break even in HP. He'd be much more unique if his HP were actually average. If need be, they can compensate by having him with reduced armor/magic resist growth rather than making him have to overcome his strength. Normally you have to overcome weaknesses. > Personally, I always thought Yasuo's problem was his Critical Chance passive. He's designed as a melee carry, a late game DPS class, but his Critical Strike passive is designed for mid game burst. Where there should be clear moments of strengths and weaknesses in Yasuo's power curve is his passive messing with that balance. Yeah, I think maybe Yasuo wasn't the best example of a "healthy" strength/weakness. He has several more issues that are greater than simply his shield passive.
: Veigar - low AP ratios. Pick one. He has 1.0 AP ratios on two skills (one of which is point and click AND also scales on 0.8 enemy AP), which is a rarity in the roster today, and also features a quite spammable two-target 0.6 AP nuke.
> [{quoted}](name=ProfDrDeath,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6afsnwEE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-20T21:49:57.787+0000) > > Veigar - low AP ratios. Pick one. > > He has 1.0 AP ratios on two skills (one of which is point and click AND also scales on 0.8 enemy AP), which is a rarity in the roster today, and also features a quite spammable two-target 0.6 AP nuke. Well considering the great degree of difficulty it takes to hit his 1.0 AP ratio skillshot, I think having a 1.6 AP ratio total is pretty garbage for a supposed burst mage. At best I'd give him a 2.1 AP ratio average just by splitting the difference from his Dark Matter. Taking his .8 enemy AP is shaky at best with the number one burst-target for burst mages being the ADC. I'd argue his AP ratios being complete crap considering all these factors. I was being a little kind to him by just calling them low. By comparison, a simple LeBlanc QRW combo has a 2.6 AP ratio, which insane considering how fast it comes out compared to what Veigar has to offer (disregarding the fact that it's practically point-and-click). Whereas Veigar at best has a 2.6 AP ratio if he hits all his abilities. That's not to mention the slow missile speed of his ult can be Zhonya'd much easier than LeBlanc's stuff.
Rioter Comments
: Reminder that Jinx has a 32% pickrate and a 54.5% winrate
I think the only thing that sets Jinx over the edge might be her free stats on Q. The thing I'm worried about is the fact that she is immobile. So if she does end up getting nerfed too hard, she'll be in a tough spot for a long time (ala Veigar). If she does indeed end up getting nerfed, I'd urge restraint, as she nerfing immobile carries can result in the return of some unholy trinity of uber mobiles down bot (Graves, Lucian, and Kalista I'd bet). Heck, I'd be happy if the just nerf her max range with Fishbones ended up at around ~650 instead of 700. It seems that 700 permanent range seems to be too much (They nerfed Tristana to about 670 from 708 with her rework).
Pengua (NA)
: As an ADC main, crit needs to be removed
I think at the very least crit chance runes need to go. They're garbage in general, and people take one just on the off chance that some act of God will let them auto-win their lane phase due to a lucky crit early on. It's one thing is someone sacrifices getting a Doran's blade for Brawler's Gloves. It's another if someone sacrifices .82 AD and actually gets a crit.
Rioter Comments
Nadalius (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=GlobDaBlob,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=VYBfkLdG,comment-id=0033000000010000,timestamp=2015-04-09T03:41:53.782+0000) > > Read the first 3 sentences. You had sex before marriage, 100% your fault. So because of your bad decision you take it out on another human by killing it. so its my fault that 2 contraceptive failed on me? Like i said don't force your religious bs on me. btw mate the bible was made to control people to bend them to man's liking its the best form of crowd control ever invented and Christianity is a VERY new religion I don't consider a mass of cell human until its born. I also stopped believing in those fairy tales you ol so dearly hold. Edit: I highly value the life and well-being of my gf over a parasite any day.
> [{quoted}](name=Nadalius,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=VYBfkLdG,comment-id=00330000000100000000,timestamp=2015-04-09T03:46:52.670+0000) > > so its my fault that 2 contraceptive failed on me? Like i said don't force your religious bs on me. btw mate the bible was made to control people to bend them to man's liking its the best form of crowd control ever invented and Christianity is a VERY new religion I don't consider a mass of cell human until its born. I also stopped believing in those fairy tales you ol so dearly hold. > > Edit: I highly value the life and well-being of my gf over a parasite any day. Hey look, if the appropriate actions were taken to try and avoid having a baby, then by all means, abort the baby. It isn't your fault if you had taken the proper precautionary measures before having sex. However, it seems that you have a very warped mindset about Christianity. Mind you, it's not some gleaming exemplary example of human achievement, but it isn't some form of crowd control over the mindsets of people. Have you even spoken to Christians, they are such a diverse group of people that it's hard to even think that a logical person would come to the conclusion that the bible is like some mind-control voodoo. And thirdly, there's a lot of things that keep babies from being considered a parasite, but most notably, when a woman is malnourished in pregnancy, the baby is the generally the first to go, unlike parasites who will suck the life out of their host. I get that you want to just consider it a mass of cells, and yeah, sure, it is exactly that. But so are we. Not like anything I say on GD is going to make a big difference in the world, but all I ask is that you maybe open your eyes and see that maybe every clump of cells isn't just that, but more. I mean, at the end of the day, any one of us could die, just as easily as anyone can take the life of a growing baby inside of them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Takashi Suzuki,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=VYBfkLdG,comment-id=002f00000000,timestamp=2015-04-08T23:56:44.543+0000) > > Easy. When a mother's life is in danger, one of them is going to die anyway, so my "moral standard" would dictate that I would try and save at least 1 of them. > > When raped, the choice was out of their hands, resulting in pregnancy not due to negligence for practicing safe sex, so abortion would be alright in this case because it was not a consequence of which she wrought on herself. > > I don't see how you can see the logic here. > > The reason I believe it is an issue is because one is prevantative, but not inherently destructive. For example, if you have a mosquito net, you will keep yourself from killing mosquitoes through prevention. However, if you slapped a mosquito that landed on you, you actively killed a living being. Mind you, there's a world's difference between a human life and an insect's life. > > By preventing conception, you're not actively killing a living being. But, if you don't take the necessary steps to prevent conception and use abortion as a preventative measure instead, you're actively being destructive. And see this is where the faulty logic lies. People believe that the only purpose for abortion is for being preventative. For whores who like unprotected sex. But rape happens and pregnancies from rape are real. You really think a teenage girl should go through the pains of pregnancy and deny their education? That's truly soulless. You do NOT have to answer for their actions under "god". Their are legitimate physical and psychological reasons for abortions. I want you to think about being a pregnant teenager, freshly raped and pregnant. Hope your ready for vomiting, radical emotional changes, and the pains of labor. Not to mention dropping out of school and raising a child as a child yourself.
> [{quoted}](name=Merthalimew,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=VYBfkLdG,comment-id=002f000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-09T01:19:19.914+0000) > > And see this is where the faulty logic lies. People believe that the only purpose for abortion is for being preventative. For whores who like unprotected sex. > > But rape happens and pregnancies from rape are real. You really think a teenage girl should go through the pains of pregnancy and deny their education? That's truly soulless. You do NOT have to answer for their actions under "god". Their are legitimate physical and psychological reasons for abortions. I want you to think about being a pregnant teenager, freshly raped and pregnant. Hope your ready for vomiting, radical emotional changes, and the pains of labor. Not to mention dropping out of school and raising a child as a child yourself. Hi, please understand that my first post was 3 posts above that post. It would probably help if you read that for context with my second post. Clearly I said that in cases of rape or where the mother's life is in danger were some situations where abortion is an option I support. And to be brutally honest with you, if I were a 'pregnant teenager, freshly raped and pregnant,' I would still consider the situation I were in and think long and hard about whether or not abortion were right for me. Personally, my family would support me through the pregnancy and such because they hold similar pro-life beliefs as I do. I realize that not everyone has a family quite as supportive though, so in the case of rape I wouldn't hold it against anyone to get an abortion. Oddly enough typing that was a little odd as it is a hypothetical.
: > [{quoted}](name=Takashi Suzuki,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=VYBfkLdG,comment-id=002f,timestamp=2015-04-08T23:45:38.298+0000) > > Mind you, I'm not some crazy pro-lifer that believes no abortion should be available no matter what. In cases where the mother's life is endangered or cases of rape, abortion is definitely something I support. But I don't think having abortion being super-available as a fail-safe for people who refused to take one of the many precautionary measures for sex is the right thing. So you feel that abortions are validated in some cases. What gives you the right to impose your moral stabdard on other people who don't regard clusters of cells, precursors to human life if you will, in the same regard?
> [{quoted}](name=Waffle Destroyer,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=VYBfkLdG,comment-id=002f0000,timestamp=2015-04-08T23:51:11.181+0000) > > So you feel that abortions are validated in some cases. What gives you the right to impose your moral stabdard on other people who don't regard clusters of cells, precursors to human life if you will, in the same regard? Easy. When a mother's life is in danger, one of them is going to die anyway, so my "moral standard" would dictate that I would try and save at least 1 of them. When raped, the choice was out of their hands, resulting in pregnancy not due to negligence for practicing safe sex, so abortion would be alright in this case because it was not a consequence of which she wrought on herself. I don't see how you can see the logic here. > [{quoted}](name=LiptonSwagger,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=VYBfkLdG,comment-id=0030,timestamp=2015-04-08T23:53:18.182+0000) > > I just don't understand why it's an issue. I don't really see it as any different between using birth control to prevent the birth in the first place, or abstaining from having sex and preventing the birth. > I mean, sure, I wouldn't want to have been aborted...but I wouldn't want to not have been concieved in the first place either, and I'm under no illusions who's decision _that_ would have been. > I mean, if you think about it, every moment you're not having unprotected sex you're killing potential babies. Abortion only feels worse because it's more concrete, it's more real. > I mean, killing a sapient human is wrong, in my eyes, but sapience doesn't really take hold until some time after birth. I'm not comfortable with killing a baby shortly after birth (and pre-sapience), but I'm not convinced it would be wrong if you're the one who would otherwise have to take care of it. It's not a person yet. The reason I believe it is an issue is because one is prevantative, but not inherently destructive. For example, if you have a mosquito net, you will keep yourself from killing mosquitoes through prevention. However, if you slapped a mosquito that landed on you, you actively killed a living being. Mind you, there's a world's difference between a human life and an insect's life. By preventing conception, you're not actively killing a living being. But, if you don't take the necessary steps to prevent conception and use abortion as a preventative measure instead, you're actively being destructive.
: Abortion is fine.
Having been in the situation where my mother had a miscarriage and it broke her heart, I just can't see how people can't see the side of pro-life. There's a huge difference between killing pigs/cows/insects for the same reason that animal experimentation is more widely accepted than human experimentation. We, as humans, value humans over animals. Mind you, I'm not some crazy pro-lifer that believes no abortion should be available no matter what. In cases where the mother's life is endangered or cases of rape, abortion is definitely something I support. But I don't think having abortion being super-available as a fail-safe for people who refused to take one of the many precautionary measures for sex is the right thing. Instead of fighting over who can kill their baby at the latest possible second, maybe people should be fighting for the availability of birth control and condoms instead. I mean, that's just my thoughts. I guess it probably sounds cold to say that people should learn to live with their consequences.
Phoeniix (NA)
: Vote dodge!!!!!!!!!
No, I love losing.
lSSlMuff (NA)
: "Jinx is balanced" - Jinx Mains
I think actually having a good immobile ADC is awesome. Buff Ashe and Varus to her level.
Phife (NA)
: Add "Average wards placed per game" stat to your profile
Because I want people to look up profiles post-game (or even somehow pre-game) and harassing each other. Also, that stat is pointless because shorter games would hurt the average while longer games would make the average look unusually high.
: Good thought in theory, but highly flawed execution. For one, movement speed is not only based on the champion's kit, but also on his supposed nature and feel. For example, that is why Nautilus has 325 base MS - and why Xypherous initially projected him to have EVEN LOWER MS (until Live Balance objected). Or why Mordekaiser has 340 MS (which is, by the way, the above average value currently) - he's a friggin' hulkin' suit of armor, after all. You will also notice all the ice-based champions tend to have low movement speeds, which fits with their purposed theme. Of course, there are also those champions who have low MS for gameplay purposes - Anivia comes to mind here. That bird has an incredible amount of control and damage within her sphere of influence, not to mention 600 base attack range. Barring a few exceptions (hello {{champion:64}} , and even for him it fits with his mobility theme), the current MS system is in a healthy place.
> [{quoted}](name=ProfDrDeath,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2dMMKeVY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2014-12-30T23:23:14.573+0000) > > Good thought in theory, but highly flawed execution. > > For one, movement speed is not only based on the champion's kit, but also on his supposed nature and feel. For example, that is why Nautilus has 325 base MS - and why Xypherous initially projected him to have EVEN LOWER MS (until Live Balance objected). Or why Mordekaiser has 340 MS (which is, by the way, the above average value currently) - he's a friggin' hulkin' suit of armor, after all. You will also notice all the ice-based champions tend to have low movement speeds, which fits with their purposed theme. > Of course, there are also those champions who have low MS for gameplay purposes - Anivia comes to mind here. That bird has an incredible amount of control and damage within her sphere of influence, not to mention 600 base attack range. > > Barring a few exceptions (hello {{champion:64}} , and even for him it fits with his mobility theme), the current MS system is in a healthy place. I understand what you are saying. But Riot has pointed towards straying from a Champion's theme for the health of the game in the past. For example, Karma used to be a Yin-Yang mage which dealt more damage when at low health, now she is Generic Female Mage #10. Sion had the ability to be a heavy axe-wielding magic dealer, and is now just a heavy axe-wielding axe-wielder. I just can't see it being healthy that champions with mobile kits have higher movement speed than their immobile counterparts. What that does is make it so that at every point of the game Lee Sin is going to be more mobile than anyone with equal or lower base speed. If his speed were nerfed, it would allow his abilities to truly shine, as when he uses them he is very mobile, and misuse will be punishing, allowing for counterplay. In addition, I just can't get behind you saying that the current MS system is in a mostly healthy place. It's a case where the rich are just all around richer, and the poor are all around poorer. (or in plainer terms, mobility seems to breed even more mobility, which leaves little room to outplay champions more mobile than you) Just a few examples include... The Rich (Mobile kits with high speed): Akali(350); Lee Sin(350); Jax(350); Yasuo(345); Zed(345); Master Yi (355) The Poor (Comparatively low mobility with low speed): Blitzcrank(325); Lulu(325); Nautilus(325); Soraka(325); Galio(335); Heck, they love making champions like Lux have low movement speeds for counterplay reasons, I don't see why more mobile champs shouldn't have "down times" where they aren't just all-around faster and more mobile than you. ((Note about the examples, not all of "The Rich" are OP or anything, and same with "The Poor", it's just to point out VERY mobile champs with high MS and champs that have limited or situational mobility with terrible MS))
TehNACHO (NA)
: No but seriously though, while I agree with the mentality, the execution of this seems terrible. I mean, listen to me for at least this next part: Gangplank, Poppy, Darius, Olaf, Warwick, and Yorick are all blacklisted or have been blacklisted for high priority reworks because, as they are now, their kits simply are not allowed to work as they are. I've listed a host of problems, [*objective*](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JR639tHU-why-do-people-complain-about-dariuss-ult-so-much?comment=000100000000) problems with Darius as he is now, and similar exercises can be done for literally every other champion that I just called out on being blacklisted. Yet, your list puts them into high movement speed categories, giving them that edge over other champions in the game despite that, as just mentioned, there are fundamentally bad or hard to balance parts of their kits. I mean, you have the right idea, don't get me wrong. The problem is that you're too short sighted about this: *why* do you think certain champions are punished with low movement speed, even if they lack any and all movement based utility in their kit? You obviously can't argue that excessive mobility is why their kits are hazardous and thus docked down, could it be that there are elements outside of movement based abilities or movement impairing abilities you probably have to factor in? Could it be that maybe, just maybe, Rito actually does know how to balance things but because they never explain themselves everybody just assumes their decision to gut Olaf was just because "reasons"? Movement can't be the only basis for movement. This game's much bigger and much more complex than that, and you need to factor those elements into your list in as well if you want to avoid Olaf getting Olaf'd even more because Riot needs to do something about him being too fast now.
> [{quoted}](name=TehNACHO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2dMMKeVY,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-30T17:12:32.461+0000) > > No but seriously though, while I agree with the mentality, the execution of this seems terrible. > > I mean, listen to me for at least this next part: Gangplank, Poppy, Darius, Olaf, Warwick, and Yorick are all blacklisted or have been blacklisted for high priority reworks because, as they are now, their kits simply are not allowed to work as they are. I've listed a host of problems, [*objective*](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JR639tHU-why-do-people-complain-about-dariuss-ult-so-much?comment=000100000000) problems with Darius as he is now, and similar exercises can be done for literally every other champion that I just called out on being blacklisted. Yet, your list puts them into high movement speed categories, giving them that edge over other champions in the game despite that, as just mentioned, there are fundamentally bad or hard to balance parts of their kits. > > I mean, you have the right idea, don't get me wrong. The problem is that you're too short sighted about this: *why* do you think certain champions are punished with low movement speed, even if they lack any and all movement based utility in their kit? You obviously can't argue that excessive mobility is why their kits are hazardous and thus docked down, could it be that there are elements outside of movement based abilities or movement impairing abilities you probably have to factor in? Could it be that maybe, just maybe, Rito actually does know how to balance things but because they never explain themselves everybody just assumes their decision to gut Olaf was just because "reasons"? > > Movement can't be the only basis for movement. This game's much bigger and much more complex than that, and you need to factor those elements into your list in as well if you want to avoid Olaf getting Olaf'd even more because Riot needs to do something about him being too fast now. Yeah I get what you're saying. Perhaps I'm being a bit too ham-fisted with my argument in the original post. But currently it feels as if there's little to no rhyme or reason for the movement speeds, to me. For example, I can appreciate your arguments for Poppy, Darius, and the like who are slated for reworks. But, I'd laugh if anyone were to argue why Lee Sin, Fizz, or Yasuo have such high base speeds. I understand that there are a bunch of broken kits in the game currently, and perhaps those are the reasons for low movement speeds on some pretty terrible champions, but it would not hurt the game to severely cut the high-mobility champions' speed. Namely Lee Sin, Fizz, Riven, and Yasuo come to mind immediately when I think of champions with stupid movement speed. Heck, just cutting the problem cases of high-mobility + movement speed combos would help out the immobile champions by extension, too.
TehNACHO (NA)
: That terrifying moment when Darius is able to outrun you.
> [{quoted}](name=TehNACHO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2dMMKeVY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-30T16:54:25.883+0000) > > That terrifying moment when Darius is able to outrun you. I thought that too; however, then you realize the only extra mobility to him is whatever boots he has on and his 550-range pull. (And I suppose the bleed is something to consider as well). Also, currently in the game there's a champ called Yasuo who has insane mobility and with very little crit chance can stack up the burst, too. In addition, most of his match-ups are in the same tier (Nasus, Cho'Gath) or only have 5 movespeed less (Irelia, Fiora, Pantheon, Garen, Jax, etc.). I'd also be scared of Cho'Gath and Olaf too. xD
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Jikker (NA)
: Hey, GD, where do YOU live?
Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. 100 Ping Gold V if that matters
: When will riot gut Fizz?
I think it's important to note that Fizz has too terribly low of a cooldown on his invulnerability at 8 seconds (at level 5). With 40% CDR he has a 4.6 second cooldown on it. And considering he can be invulnerable for up to .75 seconds, that's only a ~4 second window of opportunity to deal with him. To contrast, Vladimir has a 14 second cooldown on his level 5 Sanguine Pool, with his invulerability lasting 2 seconds. NOTE: Vladimir struggles to get 40% CDR because a lot of CDR items are tied to mana. But, if he does have max CDR, his cooldown falls to 8.4 seconds. This leaves a 6.4 second window to deal with Vladimir (who doesn't have CC or mobility like Fizz does). And to reiterate, ~20 - ~25% CDR is more likely a number for Vlad to have, which leaves him vulnerable even longer. And in both cases, if you take into account a Zhonya's cast in between invulnerability casts, Fizz would be vulnerable for a whopping 1.5 seconds, while poor Vlad would still have 4 seconds to wait (which, mind you, is what Fizz has to wait when he DOESN'T use Zhonya's!) The point of this? To shoo away all those people talking about how other champions have invulnerability too. (And if you're wondering, Elise's invulnerability has the same cooldown and max duration as Vladimir's, and Lissandra's isn't even worth talking about, considering its' cooldown) TLDR: Fizz's invulnerability absolutely tears apart any other champion's invulnerability, as his features MUCH less downtime.
: Reported because i said "Udyr was a bad champ" with pictures
I'll bite... Those notifications are not the culmination of one to two people reporting you for saying a very specific phrase.
: What is community to you?
Not that I posted much on old GD, or plan on posting much in the future (I'm more of a lurker)... but here's my insight as a (sort of) outsider: Old General Discussion was very much a community. I remember I would open up a thread, and say in my head "Oh, Bulbasaur Girl 74 at it again" and scroll down to see another, slightly less hated troll get a ton of upvotes for dunking her. Really it was a community of mostly trolls, and I truly don't mean that in any way but the most endearing way possible. The main reason I kept coming to GD was to laugh, truly it was. Many of the threads on the first page got me laughing, and I'd show my friend and he'd just not get it. Maybe that's what GD's community is, we (or should I say *you guys*) just "get" it. Sorry if this is confusing, asking what a community is is a little bit abstract though. EDIT: I think I just thought of a good analogy. Back in high school I had this friend in my history class that I would jokingly bicker with constantly. At one point my teacher just straight up said "Do you guys hate each other?" We looked at each other, and knew we didn't. I feel like people without the right point of view look at GD as a toxic waste dump, while those who know better know that these guys are gonna be coming back at the end of the day to post again.
: Certain champions will always be naturally better than others. It creates a dyanamic in the game's balance to provoke change and counters to the stereotypical "overpowered" champion. With enough popularity to the overpowered champion's counter, that OP champion seems weak in the current meta, causing a nice flow to new popular picks. I'm probably not explaining it well so watch [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w&list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5BkTruCmaBBZ8z6cP9KzPiX) by Extra Credits (Game dev channel) that talks about this exact thing. But as a tl;dr, the game will always be imbalanced or it will stagnate, and this isn't a problem unless a specific champion or combo continues to be overpowered for an extended amount of time *and* remain popular. A good example is Poppy. Kit-wise she is actually one of the most broken champions in the game, but no one plays her so she isn't nerfed. They're looking at her, sure, but until she's a problem they won't change her much.
I'm not speaking to imbalance as much as I am to brokenness. Things such as bruisers being riddled with free stats, and melee adcs requiring infinidash to become even remotely viable. Not whatever you're talking about. What I speak of is the broad changes to bruisers that Riot has alluded to but instead continually pushes out more and more of the same broken things rather than dealing with what they have currently. Thanks for the response, though...
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ImThatJGuy

Level 143 (NA)
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