: if a game goes to 2-3 hours {{champion:75}} can 1 hit almost anything in league of legends but if were talking like 5 items there is no melee champ in the game that can 1v1 {{champion:86}} if they stand next to him they die
> [{quoted}](name=I Like Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nJl4glYE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-18T16:57:38.782+0000) > > if a game goes to 2-3 hours {{champion:75}} can 1 hit almost anything in league of legends > > but if were talking like 5 items there is no melee champ in the game that can 1v1 {{champion:86}} if they stand next to him they die False, lot's of melee's can 1v1 garen at that point in the game, and some of them pretty easily. Jax, fiora, yi, tryn. Sure, some of them, if they use zero abilities (and this accounts for garen's silence) and literally just sit there and whack at him, might likely die. But all those champs curb stomp him at 5-6 items. I suppose the only exception might be tryn if he purchased no armor pen. Heck, even darius actually reks garen 1v1 at all stages of the game if properly itemized and properly played (assuming equal level and gold). Although many do consider garen to scale better into late game that darius overall, I'm just referencing the 1v1. People who think garen wins a straight 1v1 on even footing at any point in the game are simply wrong. Granted, if garen can manage to chunk darius and run, then heal and re-engage, then it's easily in garen's favor since darius has no non-champion combat healing in his kit. So it really comes down to two things that darius needs to execute properly: 1: timing w, Q, and pull such that he quickly builds stacks but also kites garen some to avoid the entire damage of garen's kit (this matters more late game than early). 2. Not letting garen escape, so again, managing the timing of W and E especially. If Darius does those things it's an auto win for him, as garen simply can't itemize or scale well enough to beat darius in a straight fight as long as both are playing optimally and as long as garen doesn't escape. However, I must admit I don't know how the matchup plays out now that garen had his mini rework and his winrate went bonkers.
: Casters are avoiding saying the words ‘Hong Kong’.
The moderator, Jikker, is censoring anything that speaks unfavorably of Riot's Chinese overlords. Don't let that stop any of you from speaking out though. It's a weak tactic and it shows the greed and manipulation harbored by Riot, as well as their fear that any of us might rightly speak out.
Jikker (NA)
: Hey all, While discussing Riot's interactions with China's policy in relation to Hong Kong is one of the few exceptions we have to the rules regarding social/political commentary, we do need to make sure that the conversation remains focused on Riot's actions and avoid any discussions related to China and Hong Kong themselves. Thanks {{sticker:poppy-wink}}
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=m9QMwyHU,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2019-10-09T16:04:05.216+0000) > > Hey all, > > While discussing Riot's interactions with China's policy in relation to Hong Kong is one of the few exceptions we have to the rules regarding social/political commentary, we do need to make sure that the conversation remains focused on Riot's actions and avoid any discussions related to China and Hong Kong themselves. > > Thanks > > {{sticker:poppy-wink}} Oh no, it's the thought policeman, Jikker, removing any content he disagrees with. Weak. You guys are going to lose face for this. It's thinly veiled propaganda and thought control, not for the sake of keeping order or protecting players from harassment or offensive speech, but because you guys have to protect your Communist Chinese dictators and enforce their decrees.
: Remove the whole cooldown reducing basic attacks shenanigan. This mechanic is nowhere near healthy when so many items have CDR acquired with them. They should bring back the bruiser passive, which gave flat damage reduction based on bonus AD on an individual passive and active component. Not going to spread any false claims, but damage reduction is the last form of defensive stat in the game that is not available to any champion, and is a saving grace to the current meta revolving around 'one shot or be one shotted'. This revision of SOJ will not be totally broken, if so much true damage exists in the game right now, there should be no issue with counter play. On a side note, if they ever decide to bring this back in Season 10 or so, then I'd highly suggest they work around how it functions on ranged champions, because that could be a potential balance issue. If you try to argue with "bruisers won't take damage than!!!!" then please tell me why you enjoy playing versus Riven and Jax with 0 cool downs? It used to be: > {{item:3161}} +60 Attack Damage +200 Health **+10% Cooldown Reduction** **UNIQUE Passive ** Reduces damage from champion attacks and abilities by 20 (+10% bonus AD), capped at 70. ****UNIQUE Passive**** While within 500-units of at least 3 enemy champions, use a basic attack to trigger active passive _(90 second cooldown)_. **UNIQUE Passive- _Dragon Heart_** For 6 seconds, blocks 200% more damage, for a total of 60 (+ 30% bonus AD). The duration refreshes on takedowns _(kills and assists)_. Only thing I'd change here are the scalings, increase them a bit, and maybe add a health ratio (like 1-2% bonus HP).
> [{quoted}](name=ExplodingFist66,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nnRdjJEt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-07T22:36:39.738+0000) > > Remove the whole cooldown reducing basic attacks shenanigan. This mechanic is nowhere near healthy when so many items have CDR acquired with them. They should bring back the bruiser passive, which gave flat damage reduction based on bonus AD on an individual passive and active component. Not going to spread any false claims, but damage reduction is the last form of defensive stat in the game that is not available to any champion, and is a saving grace to the current meta revolving around 'one shot or be one shotted'. This revision of SOJ will not be totally broken, if so much true damage exists in the game right now, there should be no issue with counter play. > > On a side note, if they ever decide to bring this back in Season 10 or so, then I'd highly suggest they work around how it functions on ranged champions, because that could be a potential balance issue. > > If you try to argue with "bruisers won't take damage than!!!!" then please tell me why you enjoy playing versus Riven and Jax with 0 cool downs? > > It used to be: > +60 Attack Damage > +200 Health > **+10% Cooldown Reduction** > **UNIQUE Passive ** > Reduces damage from champion attacks and abilities by 20 (+10% bonus AD), capped at 70. > ****UNIQUE Passive**** > While within 500-units of at least 3 enemy champions, use a basic attack to trigger active passive _(90 second cooldown)_. > **UNIQUE Passive- _Dragon Heart_** > For 6 seconds, blocks 200% more damage, for a total of 60 (+ 30% bonus AD). The duration refreshes on takedowns _(kills and assists)_. > > Only thing I'd change here are the scalings, increase them a bit, and maybe add a health ratio (like 1-2% bonus HP). Hmm, I do like that version more, but I don't think increasing the scalings would be a great idea. And if they were to add a % hp component, I think they should either reduce the bonus AD portion down to 7.5 or 5%, or make it adaptive, so that every 20 bonus AD is worth like 150 Bonus hp or something (i'm not doing any math to balance, just giving an idea of what I'm suggesting) wheres if you have say, 50 bonus AD, and 450 bonus HP, then it scales on bonus HP instead of bonus AD. Also, I'd argue for removing the CDR component altogether, as there is simply SO much CDR available as is and it's too easy to complete between runes and numerous items with 10-20% CDR. Also, either reduce the bonus hp to 150, or reduce the bonus AD down to 55, as it otherwise seems to like it actually has a lot of stats. Of course, by removing the CDR and reducing some of the stats, I think there would be some room to make the scaling of the passive a little better, as you had suggested.
: League is partly owned by a chinese company. It is very obvious what their stance is on this. People just don't want to lose their jobs, but make no mistake Riot because of it's owners are anti hong kong. And this thread will be closed very soon probably due to pressure to keep these things on the down low on the excuse that we should not discuss politics even though this is a very important part of our world happening right now.
> [{quoted}](name=RainbowIcee,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=m9QMwyHU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-09T00:57:42.362+0000) > > League is partly owned by a chinese company. It is very obvious what their stance is on this. People just don't want to lose their jobs, but make no mistake Riot because of it's owners are anti hong kong. And this thread will be closed very soon probably due to pressure to keep these things on the down low on the excuse that we should not discuss politics even though this is a very important part of our world happening right now. precisely. The moderators are already threatening just that.
: why is darius the way he is
Lol darius can't kill illaoi with 1 Q and 1 ult at five stacks, even if she's braindead. Heck, he'd have to be at least 5 levels up. I see heavy exaggeration in this post. Also, FYI, since you seem oblivious and ignorant on the matter, if darius builds only cleaver, he will only have meh damage. It's noticeable how much damage he's missing if he doesn't also build at least steraks, DD, or titanic, as tri-force only gives 25 bonus AD and better sheen burst/quicker stacks. But his Q and ult will be NOTICEABLY weaker. Maybe if you don't build glass cannon illaoi, you'll be able to take a few hits....
: > [{quoted}](name=GilxeN,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NYTkKvZu,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-10-04T05:57:32.700+0000) > > Name a bruiser defensive item which gives him damage, without GA. > Sterakk's cage doesn't count. Deaths dance Titanic hydra Black cleaver Frozen mallet Trinity force.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NYTkKvZu,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-10-04T07:41:42.311+0000) > > Deaths dance > Titanic hydra > Black cleaver > Frozen mallet > Trinity force. And none of those, a hypercarry make. Next...
: Every bruiser in this game does that and it’s fine? Sooooo I fail to see a problem.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NYTkKvZu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-04T05:53:03.565+0000) > > Every bruiser in this game does that and it’s fine? Sooooo I fail to see a problem. bruisers aren't also ranged, and almost never have a high ranged burst/poke ability.
: those still are damage items
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NYTkKvZu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-04T01:38:06.541+0000) > > those still are damage items And no other champ that builds those mixed offense/defense items deals hyper carry damage. She's the only one. Sure they are damage items, but they are not pure damage items. They are not great scaling either
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ZackTheWaffleMan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rOWXMagF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-02T18:21:39.285+0000) > > Because he has no mobility in his kit. If you kite him, he doesn't kill you. > > Also, the way to counter Darius in lane is by not fighting him. It's better to go 0/0 with poor CS than to go 0/5 with average CS. Unfortunately, you don't need mobility in your kit when your base damage is high enough to dumpster everything, allowing you to run Ghost/Flash and just build mobility items to offset your only weakness. The only thing keeping Darius's win rate down is how bad the people who play him are. If you look at match up statistics, you can see that he takes the wrong summoners about 30-40% of the time. He's pretty busted.
> [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rOWXMagF,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-10-02T18:27:05.075+0000) > > Unfortunately, you don't need mobility in your kit when your base damage is high enough to dumpster everything, allowing you to run Ghost/Flash and just build mobility items to offset your only weakness. > > The only thing keeping Darius's win rate down is how bad the people who play him are. If you look at match up statistics, you can see that he takes the wrong summoners about 30-40% of the time. He's pretty busted. That can be said of many champs....How many players on ANY champ take optimal runes or itemization...terrible argument because you're looking at darius in isolation without any consideration of the picture as a whole. Also, when's the last time you saw darius relevant in pro play? Long time ago. Was only truly relevant around the time of the juggernaut rework, and even then he was a middling pick. IN solo play he's maintained about a 49-51% off and on while wavering between decent and high play rate. Considering he's a middling champ as far as skill goes, these suggest pretty fair winrates.
Xavanic (NA)
: I've beaten darius with lots of melee champs {{champion:516}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:19}} are just some examples of melee's i've beat him with top, a lot of it is based on whether you avoid the blade of his Q or not, since w/o landing Q he loses a lot of his dueling potential, as he loses a stack of bleed, he loses his heal, he loses his highest damage ability, overall darius is very beatable, you just need to skill to do it, and not duel him around 6 when he has his strongest power spike, however, if he gets far enough ahead of you, he tends to feel impossible to beat due to his natural beefiness and high overall damage
> [{quoted}](name=Xavanic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rOWXMagF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-02T18:48:16.510+0000) > > I've beaten darius with lots of melee champs {{champion:516}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:19}} are just some examples of melee's i've beat him with top, a lot of it is based on whether you avoid the blade of his Q or not, since w/o landing Q he loses a lot of his dueling potential, as he loses a stack of bleed, he loses his heal, he loses his highest damage ability, overall darius is very beatable, you just need to skill to do it, and not duel him around 6 when he has his strongest power spike, however, if he gets far enough ahead of you, he tends to feel impossible to beat due to his natural beefiness and high overall damage Heck, I've lost to really good shens who pick AFTER me in the champ select because they know they can beat me early with taunt/dash, aoe no AA zone, and decent early game dueling damage. Some people even pick malphite into me, do ok in lane, then proceed to help their teams a ton with ulty.
Keiaga (NA)
: Juggernauts doing damage, not being able to catch people, and taking a lot of damage is just what juggernauts do. I don't have any reliable data for specific matchups, but just from what I remember, I almost always beat Darius playing {{champion:82}} and it really seems like a skill match up between him and any other juggernaut, minus {{champion:75}}
> [{quoted}](name=Keiaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rOWXMagF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-02T18:48:25.510+0000) > > Juggernauts doing damage, not being able to catch people, and taking a lot of damage is just what juggernauts do. I don't have any reliable data for specific matchups, but just from what I remember, I almost always beat Darius playing {{champion:82}} and it really seems like a skill match up between him and any other juggernaut, minus {{champion:75}} Exactly. Illaoi, urgot, aatrox (prenerfs aatrox stomped darius hard) all do decent against darius. Garen can if the player is really careful.
Neriticc (EUW)
: Why does he need mobility when his E basically counters all melee champions? His W gives him 225 range. Other juggernaut champions are low mobility. Some don’t even have hard CC abilities like Yorick and Illaoi. Yorick and Illaoi don’t even get one free point of AD from their kit meanwhile Darius gets 230 for attacking a tank 5 times. Trundle Q at rank 5 only gives him 40 AD meanwhile Darius gets 40 AD at level 1 or 4 with 5 bleed. I’ve seen Darius players build AP and get 5 bleed and have more AD than the ADC champion while troll building. I am dead fucking serious. I have seen AP Darius one shot someone with his passive AD steroid alone.
> [{quoted}](name=Neriticc,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rOWXMagF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-02T18:25:48.533+0000) > > Why does he need mobility when his E basically counters all melee champions? His W gives him 225 range. > > Other juggernaut champions are low mobility. Some don’t even have hard CC abilities like Yorick and Illaoi. Yorick and Illaoi don’t even get one free point of AD from their kit meanwhile Darius gets 230 for attacking a tank 5 times. > > Trundle Q at rank 5 only gives him 40 AD meanwhile Darius gets 40 AD at level 1 or 4 with 5 bleed. > > I’ve seen Darius players build AP and get 5 bleed and have more AD than the ADC champion while troll building. I am dead fucking serious. I have seen AP Darius one shot someone with his passive AD steroid alone. bullshit man and you know it. Darius only gets that AD IF he hits someone 5 times, and only gets to do anything with it IF he can reach anyone after that. That bonus AD is the only thing that even keeps him relevant, as in team fights it is super easy for him to get locked down and blown to pieces, even after getting 5 stacks and even if he's built tanky items. And clearly statistics don't support your argument that darius is in some way OP. He's not. He's actually pretty fair. All of his damage is telegraphed, his success is dependent on landing abilities and building stacks, he is immobile, all of his abilities are relatively short ranged, he has a small mana pool and so DOES go oom a decent amount of the time. He also has no inherent tanky abilities, so his actually ability to tank is far below actual tanks, especially if he is unable to land Q. His scaling is actually nothing compared to fiora or jax late game, so that's a total and complete lie. If he only builds one damage item his damage is actually quite significantly impeded (he usually needs cleaver/tri plus steraks do have solid damage). His pull is on a long cooldown, especially compared to most mobility abilities and ESPECIALLY when against champs with MULTIPLE mobility spells. I mean you try to make him sound broken but fail so miserably. As a darius main, I win games by a lot sometimes and lose by a lot sometimes, but most games I'm somewhere in the middle as far as contribution.
: Can juggernauts be removed without any major problems?
And please never again compare juggers to assassins. Juggers have what are called win conditions, and they have to be met in order to deal relevant damage. They can't 100-0 with anywhere near as little counterplay as an assassin. You have reaction time before their conditions are met. You can try to kill them, or burst and run, or just run. With assassins, once they jump you it's over unless you are stronger than them. Simple as that. Juggernauts have horrible ability to chase you once you escape their zone, they also generally have multiple ways that opponents can exploit to reduce their damage. For instance. if you are yi, you simply Q while darius Q's and you basically auto win the fight, even early game, unless darius is far enough ahead. And then you pretend that juggernauts are the only champs that punish you for farming. What about ranged champs? What about ASSASSINS? assassins will kill you anytime to approach a minion if they are even slightly ahead. Even a juggernaut doesn't have quite that much assurance of a kill when ahead, because again, you have windows of opportunity to escape. Once an assassin jumps you, you're already dead. What about mages into melee champs? Yesterday I laned against a malz top lane and couldn't do much but farm, he eventually got a lead. What about champs like jax who scale insanely well, with only moderately wweak early games, who will destroy you if they get even one kill ahead, and dpon't you dare approach a minion less targeted jump stuns you. what about renekton, who's combo has little counterplay, as he dashes in, stuns, unloads damage, and dashes out. What about tryn who either gets a lucky kill early or passively waits, gets safe farm, heals through your poke, and proceeds to massively outscale you? Simply, it seems you just hate juggernauts and you are prepared to make terrible arguments against them because you simply don't like their style. What is their niche you say? Slow, high damage, but with conditions, and generally beefy. Many of them have telegraphed skill shots and solid sustain if they land their abilities. Low to medium amounts of CC. That's the niche, to BE A JUGGERNAUT. Beefy and high damage but telegraphed. That partially defines juggers. Just like high mobility and super high burst defines assassins. Range and aoe magic defines mages. CC and beefiness defines most tanks. The only champions that generally break the rules of having too many strengths and too few weaknesses are champs like jax, irelia, pyke, yas, and riven.
: While we're at it, can we remove adcs, assassins, and mobile high damage, highly tanky bruisers with lots of CC like jax, irelia, and riven because I have personal gripes with them? Will it hurt the game? In not so many words, chill dude. Just because you don't like one class of champs doesn't mean they should be deleted. Everybody hates going up against at least one class of champs, does that mean all champ classes should be deleted? No, your request is absurd. Plus you blatantly lie. Champs like yi, jax, and riven can easily 1v1 most juggernauts once they have some items. Riven can 1v1 from lvl 1, and if she gets ahead, they don't even have a chance at crawling back. They scale better in every way. You know who also easily 1v1s most juggernauts? Ez, vayne (braindead), a good Lucian, tristana (braindead), a good Caitlin, fiora, etc. You know who makes them useless in team fights? brand, malz, annivia, lux, etc. you lie so bad when you say that there are no mobile counters or kite champs in top lane. I've already listed a few, but then there's gnar, jayce, quin. Like, just delete your post man, it's obvious you put no thought into it, you're just tilted af.
> [{quoted}](name=ImTheJuggernauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=56EuBqHF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-02T18:38:18.738+0000) > > While we're at it, can we remove adcs, assassins, and mobile high damage, highly tanky bruisers with lots of CC like jax, irelia, and riven because I have personal gripes with them? Will it hurt the game? > > In not so many words, chill dude. Just because you don't like one class of champs doesn't mean they should be deleted. Everybody hates going up against at least one class of champs, does that mean all champ classes should be deleted? No, your request is absurd. > > Plus you blatantly lie. Champs like yi, jax, and riven can easily 1v1 most juggernauts once they have some items. Riven can 1v1 from lvl 1, and if she gets ahead, they don't even have a chance at crawling back. They scale better in every way. You know who also easily 1v1s most juggernauts? Ez, vayne (braindead), a good Lucian, tristana (braindead), a good Caitlin, fiora, etc. You know who makes them useless in team fights? brand, malz, annivia, lux, etc. you lie so bad when you say that there are no mobile counters or kite champs in top lane. I've already listed a few, but then there's gnar, swain, jayce, quin. Like, just delete your post man, it's obvious you put no thought into it, you're just tilted af. Heck, I haven't even touched on all the champs that can either 1v1 darius at different points of the game or simply make him useless. If he just "kills everyone" it's because he got 5 stacks on a low hp target or a tank, flash Q'd, and started penta dunking. And the only reason that works is if: A. Your team is horrible B. There is someone stronger than darius to distract you C. None of you have a flash or dash or other form of escape available. D. No one bothers to CC darius E. Darius has enough hp to survive the insane burst and dps he will be receiving before he gets another heal off (if he lands Q) F. darius lands Q And in order for it to work, at least 3, if not 4, of those conditions have to be met. Even if darius has flash and ghost, he can still be kited. This applies to pretty much any juggernaut. In other words, juggers are mistake punishers, and if you play well, they can't do much to snowball themselves the way certain other champs can. Eventually they will fall off too unless the team comp matchup is favorable, in which case, why are you whining? because every champ has favorable and unfavorable comp matchups.
: Can juggernauts be removed without any major problems?
While we're at it, can we remove adcs, assassins, and mobile high damage, highly tanky bruisers with lots of CC like jax, irelia, and riven because I have personal gripes with them? Will it hurt the game? In not so many words, chill dude. Just because you don't like one class of champs doesn't mean they should be deleted. Everybody hates going up against at least one class of champs, does that mean all champ classes should be deleted? No, your request is absurd. Plus you blatantly lie. Champs like yi, jax, and riven can easily 1v1 most juggernauts once they have some items. Riven can 1v1 from lvl 1, and if she gets ahead, they don't even have a chance at crawling back. They scale better in every way. You know who also easily 1v1s most juggernauts? Ez, vayne (braindead), a good Lucian, tristana (braindead), a good Caitlin, fiora, etc. You know who makes them useless in team fights? brand, malz, annivia, lux, etc. you lie so bad when you say that there are no mobile counters or kite champs in top lane. I've already listed a few, but then there's gnar, jayce, quin. Like, just delete your post man, it's obvious you put no thought into it, you're just tilted af.
: > [{quoted}](name=ImTheJuggernauty,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AU5khAou,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-02T14:49:55.741+0000) > > > when they had reason to believe what they did Except they didn't. It's been shown time and time and time and time again that people here have absolutely no clue the actual effect things will have. How many times have the boards sworn up and down that some change will absolutely break a champion, only for that change to do completely nothing? How many times have they said a champion will be ruined by a nerf, only for them to have no change at all? The boards cry all the time about any champion they don't like getting any kind of positive change, throwing logic and critical thinking out the window in exchange for pure hate and irrationality.
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AU5khAou,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-10-02T15:09:40.638+0000) > > Except they didn't. > > It's been shown time and time and time and time again that people here have absolutely no clue the actual effect things will have. > > How many times have the boards sworn up and down that some change will absolutely break a champion, only for that change to do completely nothing? > > How many times have they said a champion will be ruined by a nerf, only for them to have no change at all? > > The boards cry all the time about any champion they don't like getting any kind of positive change, throwing logic and critical thinking out the window in exchange for pure hate and irrationality. and here YOU are crying. You ARE the boards too, I hope you know. I love people that come here to whine about the boards crying, while not seeing the absolute hypocrisy. You people act like you're above everyone else. You're not. If you or the OP were different and above it, the point would have been made without insulting everyone with the headline. And besides, the OP is not even necessarily right in the assessment. I'm going purely based on what the OP and other commenters have stated, but it appears that ban rate and play rate have both jumped for fiora. When pick rate jumps on a skill champ, winrate tends to decrease due to the time it takes to get good with that champ. It's probably safe to assume at this point that anybody who actually knows how to play fiora has benefitted quite handsomely from these buffs. Yet the OP failed to point that counterargument out in the post, and he/she has not addressed it yet with a counterargument. The duty is on OP now to either prove that claim false, or concede that he/she is wrong and that he was a snob.
: New Item Concept: Imperial Mail (Legendary Tank Item)
Hmm, I don't agree with the healing aspect, though I am all for an expensive, strong scaling tank items that non-ranged AND non-hyperscaling melees could use. For instance, would you really want a tryn, yas, fizz, or jax abusing this item. You gotta be more careful with these ideas dude. No, if you want a solid scaling high priced tank item for beefy bois like tanks and juggernauts, it needs to have scaling added in there, and not just insane flat bonuses. How about something like this +200 HP (+.15 base hp +.25 bonus hp)? A rather normal HP build for tanks and juggers with some hp runes would yield about 2295 (i did some simple calculations) Bonus and about assuming about 2250 base HP would yield about 911.25 bonus HP late game. If you're cho with 10 stacks, you'd have about 7,706.25 late game. This of course, only makes the item good after about 3-4 items. As for resists, I'd lower the armor and give it some MR as well (after all, why wouldn't the Emperor's armor be enchanted, as your passives already suggest. So let's say, 40 armor and 20 magic resist. Now, you're passive healing is, to put it bluntly, broken. While tanks should have some scaling options, that would nearly make them invincible against all AA or AA-hybrid champs and would be utterly ridiculous if paired with thornmail (even if some counter-synergies exist) and with certain other healing items and certain champ kits. How about we keep the the AA damage reduction but lower it to 8% (stacking additively with ninja tabi), as that would still be better than the crit reduction from randuins since it applies to the base damage as well, and to all AA's, not just crits. Since this is an item reserved only for brave warriors, how about some form of team fight utility based on boosting morale through exemplary leadership and courage in battle: Brave Heart: After either 5 seconds in batter or taking 35% of max hp damage in 3 seconds or less or killing an enemy champ, item can be activated to give champion and allies in a 750 unit radius gain: 20 armor and magic resist, 15% tenacity, and 10% spell vamp for the next 5 seconds. Cannot be activated without teammates around, can be activated even while stunned or knocked up. Ally champions with less than 25% hp or mana are healed/restored 5% max hp and mana. Unique passive: 7% movement speed (this is definitely a good one I think) This way, you'd have a SCALING lategame tank item, that wouldn't allow the likes of tanksuo or tank fizz or tank ekko to suddenly re-emerge. Imagine even just fiora or jax taking this item. Champs like yas have low base hp, so he wouldn't scale amazingly with that aspect, he also build very little hp if any, so if he wanted to get good scaling from an item like this, he'd need to sacrifice a lot of damage to do so. But tanks and juggernauts would actually be able to build an item like this for some late game scaling and do decently with it. Some champs like sion or cho would likely synergize way too well, but number could be fudged around enough to make an item like this balanceable I believe. This would give tanks a lot more durability like you want, without making them literally almost unkillable like your healing passive would essentially do. I mean, imagine a tank with your version, plus titanic hydra, plus steraks/ROA, ninja/merc, randuins/thorn, and some other item for defense or damage? They would literally become nigh unkillable, and do insane damage as tanks, which is exactly the problem we need to avoid. Perhaps even my version is too strong and could be toned down tbh.
CLG ear (NA)
: You and your clone are confronted by a loved one with a gun. How do you prove you aren't the clone?
: Why were Kayle's eyes removed from her splash art?
: “fIoRa iS GoNna bE bRokeN”
You know what's wrong with shitposts like these? They do nothing but insult and debase people of the opposite view point. And why? For being wrong when they had reason to believe what they did. So, fiora's winrate didn't end up skyrocketing? But people had solid reason to believe she would become way OP because the buffs to her tower smashing appeared quite large. Now, sure the results proved those fears wrong, but again, people were reasonable in being apprehensive. Now, some snob like you comes with a headline like this, clearly showing mental immaturity at best. You couldn't just say they were wrong and make your point, you had to be insulting while you're at it, and for no reason at all.
: Troll skin concept idea only - Dunkmaster Warwick and Heartseeker Darius
Actually, I know these ideas have almost nothing to do with Darius, and everything to do with rhyming but...I want to see Drunkmaster and Funkmaster Darius skins fo sho. Maybe even a like Junkmaster and Trunk(big booty)master Darius eventually. And if they do give him something along the line of Heartseeker, it should instead be HUNKmaster Darius. Oh yeahhhhh
: We need more villain battle events Riot!
If there was a vs match between fiora and jax, I would suggest a different theme. First, dawnbringer plus sandbringer (and yes I know you pointed out your reason for the odd choice of sandbringer) don't even match with each other thematically. Second, it's virtually a copy/paste of the original vs event with dawnbringer riven, and that's not a great thing two do. Third, it doesn't match either of the characters thematically in any way. Fourth, and finally, it just doesn't sound cool at all and doesn't have a ring to it. What I'd suggest is something more along the lines of two grand duelists or gladiators duking it out in the arena (sort of like an animation made a while back) but with more flair and detail than normal. Perhaps the stakes are normal like actual gladiators, in that whoever wins is freed, and the loser dies. Perhaps you add a new twist, I don't know. It could also be a master/apprentice show down (jax the master, and fiora the pupil since she's much younger). The point is these would be more original (not copying the riven theme) and more thematically inclined. Perhaps it could be like Kung-Foo Panda and the fight between Po and Tai-Lung where fiora is the disgruntled apprentice out for vengeance for not being the chosen one.
: DO NOT RUSH ARMOR. Must people build cloth armor or two against him thinking it will work but it doesn't because of his passive armor pen plus conqueror. Rushing {{item:3067}} will go along way against him. Also he is from the same twisted mind that created these degenerates {{champion:142}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:84}}
> [{quoted}](name=only luciano,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=62AgFzIB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-01T11:54:54.214+0000) > > DO NOT RUSH ARMOR. Must people build cloth armor or two against him thinking it will work but it doesn't because of his passive armor pen plus conqueror. Rushing {{item:3067}} will go along way against him. Also he is from the same twisted mind that created these degenerates {{champion:142}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:84}} well actually a cloth armor early on isn't a bad pickup when he has very little armor pen. especially if you can get short bursty trades on him before he can proc conqueror.
: pick {{champion:86}} wait for him to use his pull by baiting it or his circle . then Q, spin for half the time, back rinse+repeat. i usually win this lane unless there's a jungler babysitting him also don't bother getting tanky. get triforce instead if you want more information about beating darius, check out my favourite garen/darius main youtuber: The Glacierr
> [{quoted}](name=Sinful Succubus,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=62AgFzIB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-01T09:10:10.101+0000) > > pick {{champion:86}} > > wait for him to use his pull by baiting it or his circle . then Q, spin for half the time, back > > rinse+repeat. i usually win this lane unless there's a jungler babysitting him > > also don't bother getting tanky. get triforce instead > > if you want more information about beating darius, check out my favourite garen/darius main youtuber: > > The Glacierr The only problem with this strategy is if the darius doesn't fall for that gimmick. For instance, if darius (and assuming they are both even) merely sits in minion wave and last hits cs, garen either loses a lot of cs or is force to confront darius for farm. All darius has to do is start by autoing. If garen Qs, then you just walk in the direction that garen will be running to while the silence is up. once it's done, you auto-W him or just W if in range, or you pull him, then auto-W. From there just keep whacking him and Q when only you need to (so that garen doesn't get the necessary space to run away while darius is either silence or his pull is down. If garen Q's AND tries to follow up with E, then it's a big time death sentence for him. This will one 100% of trades against garen assuming: darius is even slightly behind, no jgler influence in the fight, you are no further than middle of the lane, and you don't take too much needless minion aggro early on. And contrary to what people say about garen vs darius scaling into late game, darius will always win the 1v1 if played and built correctly, even at full build. Garen only scales better because of his late game ult potential on carries and his ability to survive and insane amount of damage for a duration, and being able to retreat and heal, and split push better than darius.
: Is pyke a pickle?
The Pied Pykeled Piper
: well unfortunately, that typically involves aggressive behavior as other methods tend to lead to repression and of course the eventual burst of emotion as another fun fact, most people do not learn to start controlling their emotions until their early twenties, if not later and League is primarily directed at a teenage audience (and even younger as they can slip in )
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=rE2yUZE2,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2019-09-29T02:03:32.497+0000) > > well unfortunately, that typically involves aggressive behavior as other methods tend to lead to repression and of course the eventual burst of emotion > > as another fun fact, most people do not learn to start controlling their emotions until their early twenties, if not later and League is primarily directed at a teenage audience (and even younger as they can slip in ) That's wrong. Most people learn to control their emotions IF THEY ARE TAUGHT TO rather than spoiled like brats by bad parenting. Now that's a fun fact. Parenting these days is almost non-existent. Sure, there are always some bad apples, but the fact is good parenting helps, bad parenting or a lack of parenting and accountability hurts developing youth.
: ok, but they're still people too. No one wants to hear your toxic abuse. Bottling up anger isn't healthy, but maybe learn to handle your anger in a more productive way instead of flaming.
> [{quoted}](name=DorkunedAuras,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=rE2yUZE2,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-09-28T22:53:46.579+0000) > > ok, but they're still people too. No one wants to hear your toxic abuse. Bottling up anger isn't healthy, but maybe learn to handle your anger in a more productive way instead of flaming. Well said. These people just want to excuse their actions and make their bad behavior seem good somehow. They're misconstruing bad for good, rather than fixing their own issues. They can't handle personal accountability.
: You know whos stupid than a toxic person? A person who ints and feeds and makes you lose the game :)
> [{quoted}](name=LightswornLance,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=rE2yUZE2,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-28T22:53:24.461+0000) > > You know whos stupid than a toxic person? A person who ints and feeds and makes you lose the game :) Wrong. Feeding due to a bad game is not worse. Why? because it's not intentional. You're not willfully trying to make other people's lives worse by degrading them. Feeding due to a bad game or going against a simply better player is due to mistakes or imperfection, but not due to their will or due to malice. Being toxic is infinitely worse than someone having a bad game. Don't even compare them. Of course, ACTUAL inting is just as bad as being toxic really. But you seem to be mixing the terms up, as so many toxic players do. The toxic players who call every feeder an inter are just as bad as inters.
: the way some of my teammates play, sometimes its really hard to believe there is a living breathing thinking person on the other side of the screen honestly but they're more than welcomed to mute me. unfortunately i cannot mute their game play.
> [{quoted}](name=Akali Prime,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=rE2yUZE2,comment-id=000c00000001,timestamp=2019-09-29T19:02:52.381+0000) > > the way some of my teammates play, sometimes its really hard to believe there is a living breathing thinking person on the other side of the screen honestly but they're more than welcomed to mute me. unfortunately i cannot mute their game play. I wonder how many times other players think the same of your? or me? or anyone that posts on these boards? We all have bad games or even TERRIBLE games due to tilt or other factors. But of course you're the only exception right? No one ever finds it hard to believe when you play that YOU are a living breathing thinking person, right? because clearly you must be perfect
: if you were in your promos and you tilted me by criticizing my gameplay enough, I'd literally beg you to tell me to disconnect from the game so you can enjoy a real 4vs5. And I Dare you to say yes aha. Maybe then players like you will learn that it's smarter to be nicer to your own teammates {{sticker:sg-jinx}}
> [{quoted}](name=Łílÿpú,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=rE2yUZE2,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2019-09-28T20:11:03.632+0000) > > if you were in your promos and you tilted me by criticizing my gameplay enough, I'd literally beg you to tell me to disconnect from the game so you can enjoy a real 4vs5. And I Dare you to say yes aha. Maybe then players like you will learn that it's smarter to be nicer to your own teammates {{sticker:sg-jinx}} While I sort of agree, I don't think it's a matter of how much you criticize gameplay. There is good critique and bad critique, but what it really comes down to is if you are polite or rude. Criticizing just to bash, insult, or in a condescending manner is bad. Criticizing for the sake of winning as a team and to help that player is good, as long as the delivery comes across well.
: you don't. don't 1v1 him unless you're fiora, jax, or yi or something like that. group up with your team and take stuff. then the way to play vs him is like against any other splitpusher, send someone to just waveclear/3 man gank him or something.
> [{quoted}](name=Qveen Herby EP 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZH8KeIkq,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-09-29T13:16:55.364+0000) > > you don't. don't 1v1 him unless you're fiora, jax, or yi or something like that. group up with your team and take stuff. then the way to play vs him is like against any other splitpusher, send someone to just waveclear/3 man gank him or something. even yi and fiora have zero chance to straight 1v1 tryn assuming full builds. He 2-3 shots them, plus his ult means even if they somehow do more damage, it won't matter and he'll kill them anyway. So, don't 1v1 him unless you are jax, especially jax with SoS
: Pyke is weak!
Wow and after reading the end of your post I have to say, 10/10 troll post my dude. Either that I have to applaud your naivete. Because your assessment of pyke is just absolute trash. Someone light a match and burn this post down. Just awful
: > [{quoted}](name=anatasjhsh01,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zEqjv1sX,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-09-30T11:09:55.808+0000) > > Or maybe you are just seeking attention. I haven't seen a good Pyke since a long time. In the past few weeks i barely saw any Pyke at all, and when it came they lost. He might be super OP in Iron where people couldn't dodge something simple as a Blitz Q with Alistar, but in G2 people already can dodge like 99,9% of the skillshots. Even AP. Malphite is considered bad, because he is nothing without ult, and everyone just flash away from it. Or zhonya, or use "free flash" champion ability. The only thing ever hits are super wide stuff, if no minions around, and point click abilities.
> [{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zEqjv1sX,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-30T11:13:58.428+0000) > > I haven't seen a good Pyke since a long time. In the past few weeks i barely saw any Pyke at all, and when it came they lost. He might be super OP in Iron where people couldn't dodge something simple as a Blitz Q with Alistar, but in G2 people already can dodge like 99,9% of the skillshots. Even AP. Malphite is considered bad, because he is nothing without ult, and everyone just flash away from it. Or zhonya, or use "free flash" champion ability. > > The only thing ever hits are super wide stuff, if no minions around, and point click abilities. It's because he's permabanned. When he's not banned he generally goes something like 10/3. And those are just the average pyke players with zero skill.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lucían Main,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zEqjv1sX,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-30T10:57:56.773+0000) > > _**--Removed--**_ Can't she? If i play Eve, then what prevents me from selecting an item with health, and press the buy button? Assuming, that i got the gold for it of course.
> [{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zEqjv1sX,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-30T11:09:34.819+0000) > > Can't she? If i play Eve, then what prevents me from selecting an item with health, and press the buy button? Assuming, that i got the gold for it of course. The ability to buy something and the ability to be viable after doing so are not the same thing...……… Sure, I can buy all crit, AD, and AS on my boi darius. Maybe 1 in 5, or 1 in 10 games I'll curbstomp the enemy team due to the team comps. The other 80-90% of games? I'll end up feeding and my team will effectively be playing 4/5. Sure Eve CAN buy tank items. And she'll do a horrible job of tanking WHILE DOING ZERO DAMAGE. What a terrible comparison.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kat XD,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WEEbglGk,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-30T01:24:22.900+0000) > > It's a way to flex. > > Psychological warfare if you will, to tell the enemy team "Pick whoever you want, I'm not worried." See, I would make that flex if I actually trusted my potato allies to not feed a commonly pub stomping champion like Zed, Yasuo, or some other temp meta champ.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WEEbglGk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-30T01:36:35.048+0000) > > See, I would make that flex if I actually trusted my potato allies to not feed a commonly pub stomping champion like Zed, Yasuo, or some other temp meta champ. Plus, let's be honest, I don't think that the enemy team pays enough attention to be psychologically affected by this tactic (It sure never bothers me)
SirEnds (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mihalikb,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mvXXpyQr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-29T23:26:34.057+0000) > > The ability bloat is the main reason why we are in this mess in the first place. The recent trend for reworks and especially new champions is baking in a million different stun, engage, dash, cc mechanics into every ability. > > Akali, Kaisa, Pyke, Kayle, Mordekaiser, Neeko, Qiyana, Aatrox are all glaring examples of this. Most notably Akali and Kaisa. I agree with everyone you're talking about except for mord (his reason was already explained in another comment) and aatrox who has basically been gutted beyond belief and is in a pretty balanced state atm considering how hard he can be bullied in lane due to his waveclear he also needs the healing vamp for teamfights and has no lane sustain without deaths dance which is still nerfed for him because he heals less off of minions because of his q's reduced damage to minions.
> [{quoted}](name=SirEnds,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mvXXpyQr,comment-id=000000000004,timestamp=2019-09-30T14:57:46.435+0000) > > I agree with everyone you're talking about except for mord (his reason was already explained in another comment) and aatrox who has basically been gutted beyond belief and is in a pretty balanced state atm considering how hard he can be bullied in lane due to his waveclear he also needs the healing vamp for teamfights and has no lane sustain without deaths dance which is still nerfed for him because he heals less off of minions because of his q's reduced damage to minions. Yeah admittedly I hated aatrox and he was way OP pre-nerfs, but he seems a little too weak now.
Mihalikb (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=KABLUMP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mvXXpyQr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-29T22:59:53.433+0000) > > I undertstand this, which is why I think that more utility and options should be put into most champions in order to make that issue go away The ability bloat is the main reason why we are in this mess in the first place. The recent trend for reworks and especially new champions is baking in a million different stun, engage, dash, cc mechanics into every ability. Akali, Kaisa, Pyke, Kayle, Mordekaiser, Neeko, Qiyana, Aatrox are all glaring examples of this. Most notably Akali and Kaisa.
> [{quoted}](name=Mihalikb,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mvXXpyQr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-29T23:26:34.057+0000) > > The ability bloat is the main reason why we are in this mess in the first place. The recent trend for reworks and especially new champions is baking in a million different stun, engage, dash, cc mechanics into every ability. > > Akali, Kaisa, Pyke, Kayle, Mordekaiser, Neeko, Qiyana, Aatrox are all glaring examples of this. Most notably Akali and Kaisa. In truth I don't believe morde is problematic like the others. Sure he's been too strong, but they've nerfed him decently and seems about right now. He really doesn't have too many mechanics imo, and he's more or less balanceable by simple numbers adjustments. And no I don't play him, but when I lane against him he seems decently balanced overall. He was definitely too strong upon his rework release though.
: SHACO IS GETTING REVERTED, TIME TO HELP OUR SKARNER BROTHERS
StroII (NA)
: Thanks for flaming me, appreciate it. As I said, I play for fun and I don't keep up with everything Riot says or does so I don't know how I was supposed to know the PROJECT line was human only as, as you said, Warwick has one. It also doesn't have to be PROJECT, there is also the Mecha line which is similar enough. And I did say that although I hoped Voli could get a God-King skin, I was pretty sure that was exclusive to Garen and Darius. Doesn't stop me from hoping, though. Those skins look awesome. I _would_ thank you for the info about Voli's VGU but Sukishoo already pointed that out _without_ feeling the need to insult me. And **yes**, I suggest stuff that I think looks cool because guess what? That's what skins are _for_. I'm also not a fan of the joke skins like that luchador skin Voli has. The whole point of asking people's opinion was to know what kind of skin _they_ expected. _I_ don't know the lore but other people does and that's what I was hoping to get as answers, not "Now this right here is someone who doesn't know what they are talking about when it comes to skins and just randomly suggest crap that they think "looks cool." So if you actually have a plausible suggestion I'd love to ~~hear~~ read it.
> [{quoted}](name=ToXicK97,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=Efc8n9se,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-27T14:35:45.148+0000) > > Thanks for flaming me, appreciate it. > > As I said, I play for fun and I don't keep up with everything Riot says or does so I don't know how I was supposed to know the PROJECT line was human only as, as you said, Warwick has one. It also doesn't have to be PROJECT, there is also the Mecha line which is similar enough. > > And I did say that although I hoped Voli could get a God-King skin, I was pretty sure that was exclusive to Garen and Darius. Doesn't stop me from hoping, though. Those skins look awesome. > > I _would_ thank you for the info about Voli's VGU but Sukishoo already pointed that out _without_ feeling the need to insult me. > > And **yes**, I suggest stuff that I think looks cool because guess what? That's what skins are _for_. I'm also not a fan of the joke skins like that luchador skin Voli has. > > The whole point of asking people's opinion was to know what kind of skin _they_ expected. _I_ don't know the lore but other people does and that's what I was hoping to get as answers, not "Now this right here is someone who doesn't know what they are talking about when it comes to skins and just randomly suggest crap that they think "looks cool." So if you actually have a plausible suggestion I'd love to ~~hear~~ read it. Yeah I have to agree that guy flamed for no reason. He couldn't have simply respectfully made his point since your post is harmless enough anyway. But yeah he won't get a godking skin, but there are definitely cool things he could get. What I think would be interesting for him would be some kind of Robin Hood themed skin, though that likely wouldn't be as intense or epic as you are hoping for. He could totally fit in the mecha skin line as you mentioned. Kung-Fu Voli (as in like Kung-Fu Panda) would be dope (even though you don't care for the comedic skins lol).
Keiaga (NA)
: >Thing about conqueror as a darius player is that I mostly only take it because of the precision tree and other useful runes in it. I've never heard a Darius player say that take conquerer just because of the other runes in the precision tree. >the true damage has very little synergy with darius except early game. Why? Because of the extremely diminishing returns due to much of darius's power budget already being spent on natural armor pen That isn't how it works. Armor pen increases damage by reducing armor. This is essentially the same as having more AD. The true damage from conquerer converts 8% of this _already increased_ number into true damage. Conquerer is the most effective rune for EVERY melee champ that will get into fights long enough to get 5 stacks. I don't even think conquerer is the preferred rune for Yasuo and definitely not tryndamere. >I'd like to see something better that purposefully synergizes with DOT champs that champs like darius can also take advantage of with as much efficiency as anybody else. Assuming a rune does come out that's 100% perfect for DoT-based champs, it still won't be as good for Darius as conquerer is. Darius' bleed isn't where his value as a champ lies. He's a tanky, high-damage, high-durability juggernaut with a resetting execute. His bleed is a extra and playing Darius and relying on his bleed is equivalent to those people who play ashe support because of her slows, or playing AP fiora because her parry has 100% ap scaling.
> [{quoted}](name=Keiaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c6yoUshw,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-27T18:11:23.349+0000) > > I've never heard a Darius player say that take conquerer just because of the other runes in the precision tree. "Now, Conqueror in it's current state is awkward for Darius to use and you don't use it to it's maximum potential, but it does give you AD, which is better than the other keystones in the Precision tree. In fact, pretty much the only reason we're using Conqueror is because the rest of the tree is too good for Darius to pass up. One bonus..." That's a quote from a diamond main (Dystrex) who has a darius play guide here: [](https://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/9-19-darius-ultimate-guide-by-dystrex-551273). Now, I'm not saying every darius main feels this way, but this is just an example from someone else who does. > > That isn't how it works. Armor pen increases damage by reducing armor. This is essentially the same as having more AD. The true damage from conquerer converts 8% of this _already increased_ number into true damage. Conquerer is the most effective rune for EVERY melee champ that will get into fights long enough to get 5 stacks. I don't even think conquerer is the preferred rune for Yasuo and definitely not tryndamere. And I believe I will have to disagree with you here as well. Say no armor exists in the game. So a champion with 100 AD (and no other modifiers) will deal 100 in this scenario with a single auto attack. Now say armor introduced. I don't recall how the exact calculations work, so I'm just going to go simple. Say the enemy has enough armor to reduce physical damage by 50%. Now, that auto attack will only do 50 damage to that opponent. Now, say you have enough armor pen to reduce the enemies physical damage resistance down to 25% against your attacks. Now you do 75 damage with one auto. This is not the same as adding AD, especially as a % based armor pen. First, with only % based armor pen (and in this case you don't build lethality), you can't reach 100%, let alone overcap it. So you will never get this "bonus" ad effect with which you speak. Rather, it just makes the physical damage you already have approach closer to true damage. So take this scenario. -You have 100 AD -Opponent has enough armor to reduce physical damage by 50% -You have enough % armor pen to reduce physical resistance of this opponent down to 25% -Your auto attack deals 75 damage -Now introduce conquerors, where 10% of your pre-mitigated damage is converted to true damage -Without any armor pen you'd deal 50 damage -with conqueror stacked, you'd deal ((100*.5)*.9)+(100*.1) = 55 damage instead of 50 damage without conqueror -With the aforementioned % armor pen, you deal 75 damage without conqueror -With conqueror, you deal ((100*.75)*.9)+(100*.1) = 77.5 See the difference? Without any % armor pen in the first place, you gain 5 damage in this scenario, and with enough armor pen to reduce any physical resistance down to 25%, you gain 2.5 damage. This counters your theory, because it would only work the way you explain it if it gave BONUS TRUE DAMAGE equal to 10% of of your pre-mitigated damage. You see, if you have % armor pen or the enemy has shredded armor, you've already done a certain amount of work to approach true damage, and that's exactly what conqueror does, it CONVERTS pre-mitigated damage to true damage. Therefore, you are overlapping the effect and lose efficiency on champs who already have % pen. In fact, the lower the enemies effective resistances, the less efficient conqueror becomes. % penetration lowers the enemies effective resistances against you. The only reason conqueror even used to be amazing before was because it offered even more AD, and because it was SOOOO easy to keep it up in lane by prepping it on minions and maintaining it with his bleed effect. So no, you're definitely wrong, darius does not benefit as efficiently as champs like jax or tryn who take conquerors and have zero innate armor or magic pen. As for whether or not tryn or yas use conq as a preferred rune, I never made that claim, just that they use it more efficiently because they gain more damage from it unless they buy last whisper or after yas has ulted for the next 15 seconds. > > Assuming a rune does come out that's 100% perfect for DoT-based champs, it still won't be as good for Darius as conquerer is. Darius' bleed isn't where his value as a champ lies. He's a tanky, high-damage, high-durability juggernaut with a resetting execute. His bleed is a extra and playing Darius and relying on his bleed is equivalent to those people who play ashe support because of her slows, or playing AP fiora because her parry has 100% ap scaling. Now to counter your point here, I'll remind you my point just above, which is that darius gains less damage from the true damage conversion than most champs do. And since he has super slow AS, he even applies it less. On top of that the true damage conversion does absolutely nothing for his true damage ult, except maybe give him some healing. Then again, the healing only applies to true damage converted, and since none is converted on his ult, he might not even get that healing. So in the end, darius gets sub-optimal marginal damage increase from the true damage conversion, and only truly efficiently synergizes with the bonus ad which is only 18 at lvl 18, which is decent but nothing to brag about. Truly, the best thing about this rune for darius after early game, is the healing. Now, consider this, at lvl 18 will do this damage with the following bonus AD from items of approx. 125-205 (if he builds steraks, cleaver, and possibly DD) with one stack of bleed and no DD: -Pre 5 stacks (1 stack): 30+(125*.3) = 67.5 (337.50 at 5 stacks pre noxian might effect) -With Noxian Might of 230 bonus AD (1 stack): 30+(365*.3)=136.50 (682.5 at 5 stacks) 682.5 damage is a lot of damage, even if not a the main source. But if you took into account the type of rune I mentioned above but with properly balanced numbers, you could potentially add a Dot on the rune, plus increase the strength of his own down by a certain %. If you even increased it by 50%, that would be significant. Or by 100% would be huge and arguably broken. Of course with this, you'd need to build darius even tankier than normal, but you'd lose the heal from conqueror, but it could introduce a playstyle for darius where he's useful even when he's not getting off a lot of dunks and where he would really be able to hit home runners by finishing off fleeing opponents who are too low to survive the bleed. He'd have to sacrifice items like DD to do this, so his upfront damage would be lower, but he'd be able to build tankier and be more durable. Because as you depict darius, it proves to me you don't know what tanky means. Darius is not tanky. He has innate damage with a condition. Because of that he is ALLOWED and ENCOURAGED to build tankier items because he will die otherwise. Because as a matter of facts, aside from having solid base hp and armor, he has ZERO tankiness in his kit. He has no damage reducers, no shields, etc. The only other durability he gets is from items, hence, why he's not tanky in the true sense of the word. In fact, he's not really DURABLE either. What he has is amazing sustain, albeit, it is HIGHLY conditional. Meaning, that sustain is not reliable all the time. It can be amazing if he manages to land his q. It can also be entirely putrid and worthless and darius can blow up in 1.5 seconds even with a lot of defensive items. And comparing taking darius with a dot oriented rune with things like ashe support for slows or AP fiora for parry are not even ballpark comparisons. For instance, ap fiora only synergizes with AP on one single, long CD ability. By playing darius around a dot, the build would still highly synergize the way it currently does: buy some ad, lots of hp, and the appropriate mix of resistances and mobility items. So yeah, your comparison is just way off base there.
: Uhh, when he was halfway decent nothing BUT urgot was played with his old kit. The reason nobody played him was because they gutted him several times.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEi5wQei,comment-id=0000000000040003,timestamp=2019-09-27T17:05:50.995+0000) > > Uhh, when he was halfway decent nothing BUT urgot was played with his old kit. The reason nobody played him was because they gutted him several times. Then you go back to the part about it being an unbalanceable kit, as I covered as one of the scenarios in which a champ gets updated. If he was viable, he was too viable. Couldn't simply sit at like 50% and be a fair champ. He had to be left in ruined state. Again, i'm for keeping an older version of a champ rather than destroying it, even if it means you have to keep it a little weaker though.
: > [{quoted}](name=ImTheJuggernauty,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WrdEAyI6,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-26T15:38:25.784+0000) > > It just opens the door for darius to become ranged whenever they decide to update him again! He can now use his axe as a boomerang, and can extend the range of Q simply by holding instead of tapping it xD dude... i know you think this is funny but we are talking about riot. dont give them ideas that they would literally copy paste into their game.
> [{quoted}](name=Jennifer420,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WrdEAyI6,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2019-09-27T17:01:04.828+0000) > > dude... i know you think this is funny but we are talking about riot. dont give them ideas that they would literally copy paste into their game. Haha well said xD
Sukishoo (NA)
: Past runes like Deathfire Touch, made for DoT style champs proved to be way too powerful is why. They stay away from making more of those for that reason. Aery works well if you want consistent damage, as does Dark Harvest.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c6yoUshw,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-26T21:36:07.266+0000) > > Past runes like Deathfire Touch, made for DoT style champs proved to be way too powerful is why. They stay away from making more of those for that reason. Aery works well if you want consistent damage, as does Dark Harvest. I don't know man. Deathfire touch was never one of the worst or more complained about runes. If anything, it seemed decent and was well modified by the fact that it had significantly reduced damage on aoe abilities appropriate AD/AP scalings
: {{champion:63}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:91}} all have some sort of DoT and AoE spell like Anivia ult etc work well with DoT runes. Honestly, current rune that can be used doesn't feel satisfying to use (Comet, Aery,DH,Phase Rush).
> [{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c6yoUshw,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-09-26T21:51:24.520+0000) > > {{champion:63}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:91}} all have some sort of DoT and AoE spell like Anivia ult etc work well with DoT runes. Honestly, current rune that can be used doesn't feel satisfying to use (Comet, Aery,DH,Phase Rush). I 100% agree.
Keiaga (NA)
: Conquerer
> [{quoted}](name=Keiaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c6yoUshw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-26T20:40:51.559+0000) > > Conquerer Thing about conqueror as a darius player is that I mostly only take it because of the precision tree and other useful runes in it. The heal is nice, but to be honest, the true damage has very little synergy with darius except early game. Why? Because of the extremely diminishing returns due to much of darius's power budget already being spent on natural armor pen (reduced benefits, a true damage ult (zero benefit), and often building black cleaver not synergizing with 100% efficiency with it (even if darius doesn't build it as often as tri force anymore). The bonus adaptive damage is nice, but there really isn't a whole lot of it. So, in the end, conqueror is merely decent on darius, but tied to one of the best primary trees for him, and is the only truly decent option in that tree. Other champs like yas, tryn, riven, and jax get far more synergy. Granted the heal darius gets from conqueror from bleed stacks after 5 stacks is also nice, but again, hardly anything to gloat over. I'd like to see something better that purposefully synergizes with DOT champs that champs like darius can also take advantage of with as much efficiency as anybody else. Something perhaps to applies a small dot, but which also amplifies dots the longer those dots are applied, indefinitely. So say, as a base rune dot, it would apply something like 10-50 (+.1 bonus AP +.2 bonus AD) dot over 4 seconds. It can't be stacked, but can be re-applied by in-kit dots every 4 seconds. It would not proc rylais or synergize as a bonus with liandrys. It would also increase the damage of champ in-kit dots by 5%/second, up to a total of 100%. It would not amplify the rune dot itself though. Champs like darius woud rarely get 100% though because they would normally either kill or be killed before 10 seconds of a fight were up, but there would be times in lane where he might harass and applied a stack or two here and there, and be able to prolong it. Other times against durable opponents it might work. But most of the time, assuming he didn't die right away, he'd get roughly 80% Dot increase. Champs like teemo, malz, brand, or cass might be more likely to get the full amplification effect. The effect could continue as long as the champ continues to apply dots against champs or minions (but it can't be originally applied through minions) and the amplification can transfer, so that, like building up conquerors, once you build it up, once you attack the next champ it will apply the full amplified damage. Of course, these numbers are hypothetical, and they would likely need to be adjusted up or down. Also, there would likely need to be adjustments for ranged vs melee champs, and some way to help champs like talon or fizz use it effectively as alternative playstyle with less burst and more dot. But overall I think this would be the best way thematically to add a true Dot rune. It would be simple and intuitive enough, and allow for slightly different playstyles.
: If you've never been bullied out of lane by karma caitlyn then im envious of you. karma has always been either useless or extremely oppressive.
> [{quoted}](name=Serpentine Queen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26e281Jt,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-27T01:47:25.816+0000) > > If you've never been bullied out of lane by karma caitlyn then im envious of you. karma has always been either useless or extremely oppressive. Well, sure, I've been bullied out of lane by karma. But I've been bullied out of lane by any champ when I've gone against good players, or played poorly myself. I've also bullied any champ too. As a darius main, I feel the hate of many players when I bully them, but I get bullied or outscaled a good amount of the time as well. Is darius broken or toxic just because some people don't like being on the losing end of the matchup? Not at all, in fact he's pretty balanced overall and has lots of counterplay. I feel the same way about karma mostly. She has one good damage ability, and solid utility between slows, roots, shields, and speed boosts. But by no means is she overly oppressive compared to champs like irelia or aatrox at their peaks. Or jax, or vayne or pyke or many other TRULY problematic champs in various metas. I think in this instance, you just have a personal gripe against karma. It's ok, we all have champs we hate even if they aren't truly problems because we simply don't like the playstyle, but you need to temper that bias with reality as well. I don't call teemo nerfs just because good teemos tend to stomp me in lane as darius and make it miserable. Even swain, who is pure cancer as an immobile melee fighting him, is not broken or toxic, though I do tend to complain during game when matched up against one. Nonetheless, unlike someone like yas, swain is neither broken nor of a toxic overall design, and I try to remember that after a match in which I played against one and got stomped.
Dr Poro (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ImTheJuggernauty,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WrdEAyI6,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-26T15:38:25.784+0000) > > It just opens the door for darius to become ranged whenever they decide to update him again! He can now use his axe as a boomerang, and can extend the range of Q simply by holding instead of tapping it xD {{champion:119}} I knew you had it in ya, brother.
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WrdEAyI6,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-09-27T00:16:52.672+0000) > > {{champion:119}} I knew you had it in ya, brother. Draven 2.0. Then they can update draven to heal a missing percent of hp with every flying axe he lands, and he can cause bleeds again. Then, they can be true blood brothers again. In all seriousness though. How cool (and admittedly broken) would it be if they reinstated draven's old bleed passive, but instead it stacked 5 times like darius's, and darius's passive could stack with and feed off from it? It would be like yasuo's team knockup synergy, but possibly even far more broken lol
: making a better urgot? how about just make a new champ and leave the old urgot for those of us who liked it. Now we lost urgot and don't play this new urgot. Not at all a win. Feel the same way about malzahar.
> [{quoted}](name=lAmSovereign,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEi5wQei,comment-id=0000000000040002,timestamp=2019-09-27T05:40:16.674+0000) > > making a better urgot? how about just make a new champ and leave the old urgot for those of us who liked it. Now we lost urgot and don't play this new urgot. Not at all a win. Feel the same way about malzahar. Now if that's the argument you want to make, that's FAIR. I've said for sometime that Riot should either make completely new champs and update the old ones to be viable, OR, keep echo versions as they make remakes (like smash bros with samus, Mario, link, etc). But we all know that's not going to happen sadly. So my point IN REALITY still stands, which is that urgot was inevitably going to be reworked since he WASN'T popular hardly AT ALL. The new champ is, in popularity AND viability, a superior champ, without argument. Sure, we both wish riot could somehow keep both versions, and maybe someday they'll start doing that, but until then this is how it's going to work any time an old champ with a dated, unpopular or unbalanceable design is going to be treated when they get reworked. It's what you should expect. Now, by all means, lobby riot to start keeping and reinstating older versions of champs as distinct champs or echo fighters, I'm for that, but don't try to argue that new urgot is by any means some horrible unwelcome mistake. The only mistake was the complete removal of the old identity of the champ.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ImTheJuggernauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEi5wQei,comment-id=000000010003,timestamp=2019-09-26T15:56:10.606+0000) > > Also, your statement that a support can 1v2 the lane is ridiculous. You lost all credibility at that statement. Certain "Supports" do 1v2 the lane. {{champion:63}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:143}}
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iEi5wQei,comment-id=0000000100030000,timestamp=2019-09-27T10:54:02.319+0000) > > Certain "Supports" do 1v2 the lane. > > {{champion:63}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:143}} Again, false. Brand doesn't 100-0 anyone (with a brain) with a single rotation unless massively ahead or at least near full build and against squishy champs with little MR. Not even when against 2 opponents clumped together with his ult up. He'll do a lot of damage if he lands everything (if), but he won't 100-0 both or even one of them unless, again, he's massively ahead (because we're speaking lane phase with one item after all: Ludens, by your very own claim). Sure, if he's full hp and they are each low enough hp before the fight, he can finish them both off, but even then, he could be completely outplayed and get very little damage off as well, before he dies. And xerath support 1v2? with a single combo? bullshit man, you're full of it. karma? with just luden's echo? nah. Zyra might come close if you're daft enough to get hit by everything while simultaneously missing everything of your own. Vel is the only one who can conceivably oneshot in a 1v2 scenario due to his true damage passive and powerful ult, and tons of aoe damage in combination with his aoe knockback/knockup. Even then, unless he's massively ahead or starts the fight with a lot more hp due to constantly poking you down, he's not likely to 1v2 in a single combo without you simply outplaying him. At most, he should get 1 kill in a 1v2 if you are even in levels and hp at the start of the fight. And if you dodge any of his abilities while closing on him in a 2v1, he's dead af.
Show more

ImTheJuggernauty

Level 56 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion